Lebron is already ranked above Kobe in the all-time list

[DaPerceive]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

[Kiarip]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

wrong, but nice try it was cute.

[DaPerceive]

wrong, but nice try it was cute.
What's wrong about it? Can't refute my facts little boy? LOL.

[Pushxx]

This thread is so productive.

[DKLaker]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

The depth of your I.Q is mind blowing........I mean it is REALLY DEEP...........as in LOW :roll: :roll: :roll:

[9erempiree]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

Peaks and primes? Sad little argument.

We look at the overall body of work. Kobe trumps Lebron. Cut Kobe's career in half and he still trumps Lebron.

Saying Lebron is better than Kobe is a slap to the face to the game of basketball.

[DaPerceive]

Peaks and primes? Sad little argument.

We look at the overall body of work. Kobe trumps Lebron. Cut Kobe's career in half and he still trumps Lebron.

Saying Lebron is better than Kobe is a slap to the face to the game of basketball.
Overall body of work still favors Lebron, sorry kid.

[Heavincent]

Stop responding to RG's shitty threads. Ignore him and he'll go away.

[MostHated305]

Let's compare when LeBron retires.

[BGriffin's Dad]

Stop responding to RG's shitty threads. Ignore him and he'll go away.

why doesnt Jeff just ban his ip and all accounts connected to it?

[red1]

Let's compare when LeBron retires.
Agreed. OP wants to get a reaction out of the "5 rings!" crowd and by doing so has sunk to their level

[Fudge]

Bipolar. :oldlol: Seek help you weird ****.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Get off the computer and find another hobby.

[asdf1990]

lebron is a better player and will be ranked above kobe after this season. Another MVP+FMVP should do the trick

[DaPerceive]

lebron is a better player and will be ranked above kobe after this season. Another MVP+FMVP should do the trick
After this season? No son, he is already better.

[DaPerceive]

Agreed. OP wants to get a reaction out of the "5 rings!" crowd and by doing so has sunk to their level
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285575

[Mr. Jabbar]

perma ban op (rg)

[red1]

perma ban op (rg)
you mad?

[red1]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=285575
your point? that thread had reasonable discussion

[BallsOut]

Jeff banned StateOfMind12 (RocketGreatness's main account). He mad. :lol

[DaPerceive]

your point? that thread had reasonable discussion
same level as me brah, but we can both agree lbj is superior to kobe, am i rite or am i rite?

[Jax]

Tell us something we don't know...
Lebron will be top2 when It's all said and done.

[DaPerceive]

Tell us something we don't know...
Lebron will be top2 when It's all said and done.
agreed

Harden
Lebron
Jordan

top 3 players of all-time in 2020.

[Fudge]

Now you're just trying too hard. :oldlol:

[funnystuff]

Lebrons a better player, but Kobes career is miles better.

Then again Kobes got 7 seasons on him. He only needs 2 more fmvps to surpass Kobe maybe even 1. He has a lot of room to complete that in his 10 more seasons or so.

[(e)]

Westbrook is better than Lebron though...

[Lebron23]

Lebrons a better player, but Kobes career is miles better.

Then again Kobes got 7 seasons on him. He only needs 2 more fmvps to surpass Kobe maybe even 1. He has a lot of room to complete that in his 10 more seasons or so.


1 more finals MVp. LBJ needs to put up much better numbers than his 2012 NBA Finals performance.

[TheMan]

This thread gonna explode when the Kobe kids finish their homework and get on their computers, lol
http://img53.xooimage.com/files/f/3/a/gif-popcorn-thriller-2664d86.gif

[DaPerceive]

Lebrons a better player, but Kobes career is miles better.

Then again Kobes got 7 seasons on him. He only needs 2 more fmvps to surpass Kobe maybe even 1. He has a lot of room to complete that in his 10 more seasons or so.
How is Kobes career better by miles? Kobe's longevity is overrated. He was great from 01-10, but he wasn't even top 5-10 outside of those years.

[oh the horror]

How is Kobes career better by miles? Kobe's longevity is overrated. He was great from 01-10, but he wasn't even top 5-10 outside of those years.


:roll: wow.

[TheMan]

How is Kobes career better by miles? Kobe's longevity is overrated. He was great from 01-10, but he wasn't even top 5-10 outside of those years.
:biggums:

He isn't top 10 this year?:wtf:

[DaPerceive]

:biggums:

He isn't top 10 this year?:wtf:
He'll fall back off


Dude, It's Kobe. :oldlol:

[red1]

This thread gonna explode when the Kobe kids finish their homework and get on their computers, lol

:roll: but mr jabbar and 9erempire are already online, i guess they didn't get any homework from their kindergarten class today

[The-Legend-24]

How many accounts does this nigguh have, holy shit! :roll:

[SHAQisGOAT]

People also forget longevity like crazy these days...

[TheMan]

:roll: but mr jabbar and 9erempire are already online, i guess they didn't get any homework from their kindergarten class today
They're waiting for AlphaPup, Nick Young, Jacks3, STATUTORY, Kobe143, Yao Ming's Foot etc to show up...:lol You know, the usual gang of idiots.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe never backstabbed a city, kobe never joined the competition to ring chase, kobe never single-handedly cost his team a finals series. These few things ALONE make comparing lebron to kobe a travesty. Lebrons cheap attitude and approach to the game are an insult to every grown up, decent, hard working man.

Leshortcut cannot even sniff kobes tier of greatness by the time he RETIRES, let alone now. Close this thread for the sake of true basketball fans.

[TheMan]

Kobe never backstabbed a city, kobe never joined the competition to ring chase, kobe never single-handedly cost his team a finals series. These few things ALONE make comparing lebron to kobe a travesty. Lebrons cheap attitude and approach to the game are an insult to every grown up, decent, hard working man.

Leshortcut cannot even sniff kobes tier of greatness by the time he RETIRES, let alone now. Close this thread for the sake of true basketball fans.
2004 NBA Finals say hello...

[Mr. Jabbar]

2004 NBA Finals say hello...

lmao tell me one laker who played to his potential that series. What Lebron did in 2011 is unprecedented in the history of the NBA by any possible standards. I don't even know how Wade is still his friend...I guess two betas can share ultimate defeat with ease.

[swag2011]

LOL shows that Lebron stans are desperate to rank him above kobe. kobe is their standard, not jordan, or bird, or any other all time great. it's kobe they so desperately want him to pass LOL.

kobe all day. 5 rings bitchezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. i see why yall mad.

[Ne 1]

2004 NBA Finals say hello...
Yeah, it was all Kobe's fault. The rest of the team shooting 33% outside of Shaq, Malone injured, Shaq's lazy play on defense and on the boards, and Payton's awful play had nothing to do with it. It was all Kobe's fault, that's why the biggest blow-out loss came in the game where he only had 13 shots, right? :oldlol:

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

fcuking retard troll....atleast put your thoughts together and make a post that has points...just scribbled some dumb fcuk lines

[G-Funk]

Yeah right, Kobe will end up with 3 or 4 FMVP's

[Rysio]

reported. hoping for perma ban.

[DaPerceive]

Yeah right, Kobe will end up with 3 or 4 FMVP's
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-laugh.gif

[ihoopallday]

:roll: but mr jabbar and 9erempire are already online, i guess they didn't get any homework from their kindergarten class today

You guys are forgetting school is still out for the holidays. These kids have all the time in the world

[longtime lurker]

LOL shows that Lebron stans are desperate to rank him above kobe. kobe is their standard, not jordan, or bird, or any other all time great. it's kobe they so desperately want him to pass LOL.

kobe all day. 5 rings bitchezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. i see why yall mad.

It's pretty weird that they never compare him to Shaq, Duncan or Hakeem. Some of which Kobe is routinely considered better than. Lebron will be a top 2 player of all time yet they constantly compare him to a player that's not even top 15. hmmmmmmmmmm

[DaPerceive]

It's pretty weird that they never compare him to Shaq, Duncan or Hakeem. Some of which Kobe is routinely considered better than. Lebron will be a top 2 player of all time yet they constantly compare him to a player that's not even top 15. hmmmmmmmmmm
Kobe isn't better than any of them, so no.

[longtime lurker]

Kobe isn't better than any of them, so no.

If that's the case why is your dick so hard for a player that's not even top 10. Pretty low expectations for Lebron in that case :lol

[The Nets]

Yeah 5 rings, Robert Horry has 7 rings so its not really the quantity that matters, its the quality.

[DaPerceive]

If that's the case why is your dick so hard for a player that's not even top 10. Pretty low expectations for Lebron in that case :lol
Huh? I was just letting all the Kobe dick suckers that LBJ is superior and is on his way to being 2nd/3rd GOAT up there with Harden and Jordan.

[longtime lurker]

Huh? I was just letting all the Kobe dick suckers that LBJ is superior and is on his way to being 2nd/3rd GOAT up there with Harden and Jordan.

Yeah sure. You're trying waaaay too hard though.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yeah 5 rings, Robert Horry has 7 rings so its not really the quantity that matters, its the quality.
Here's for you Nets fan http://youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw

Horryesque

[DaPerceive]

Here's for you Nets fan http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=olqGddqhhHw

Horryesque
All I see is Kobe dickriding Shaq to another title.

[longtime lurker]

All I see is Kobe dickriding Shaq to another title.

You seem to see a lot of dick. Is there something you want to share with the rest of ISH?

[DaPerceive]

You seem to see a lot of dick. Is there something you want to share with the rest of ISH?
Chaanging the subject, yeah thats what i thought kid, we all know LBJ is superior, enjoy.

[Fudge]

The last part. :roll:

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=7445357&postcount=1

[lebeast666]

I agree, but these fvcks will understand soon Lolll

[DaPerceive]

The last part. :roll:

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=7445357&postcount=1
:oldlol: Pathetic, everyone knows that Lebron was already top 10 by then.

[Fudge]

:oldlol: Pathetic, everyone knows that Lebron was already top 10 by then.
:roll: :roll:

You're so mad.

[longtime lurker]

The last part. :roll:

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=7445357&postcount=1

ROFL exposed!

[The-Legend-24]

If LBJ is so much better, why the f*ck do they keep comparing him to Kobe?

:oldlol:

[DaPerceive]

If LBJ is so much better, why the f*ck do they keep comparing him to Kobe?

:oldlol:
Because Kobe fans keep telling people how kobe is better than lbj and he clearly is not.

[longtime lurker]

Because Kobe fans keep telling people how LBJ is better and he clearly is not.

:roll: :roll: ladies and gentlemen. The mind of an idiot

[DaPerceive]

:roll: :roll: ladies and gentlemen. The mind of an idiot
yea, u know what i meant,.

[swag2011]

All I see is Kobe dickriding Shaq to another title.

Harden was on his way to dickriding kd and westbrook to his first ring but he had an epic lebron 2011 style choke in the finals.

[DaPerceive]

Harden was on his way to dickriding kd and westbrook to his first ring but he had an epic lebron 2011 style choke in the finals.
Harden led his team to the Finals, there was no dick riding, when he plays bad they lose. He is the catalyst.

[The-Legend-24]

:roll: :roll: ladies and gentlemen. The mind of an idiot
:roll:

[thesage]

Bipolar. :oldlol: Seek help you weird ****.

What's wrong with being bipolar? Is this really your opinion? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Fudge]

:roll: :roll: ladies and gentlemen. The mind of an idiot
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

RG's so mad he can't even type right.

[Fudge]

What's wrong with being bipolar? Is this really your opinion? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
My opinion of the OP? Yes, yes it is.

[Heavincent]

Not only is the OP a retard, he's also a raging ******.


Miami has the best player in the world in Lebron James, does NY have that? No, they do not. They have Carmelo Anthony, who has like a 1 inch penor. Yeah good luck with having 1 inch dick Melo compete with 13-inch dick Lebron James.

Knicks just rely on making bogus 3s, no care, knicks defense is pathetic and any discipline defensive team like Chicago or Miami will own them.


Good luck.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8060513&postcount=227

He sure does talk about ***** a lot.

[DaPerceive]

Not only is the OP a retard, he's also a raging ******.



http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8060513&postcount=227

He sure does talk about ***** a lot.
That's a good post you just quoted, don't see the problem.

[Heavincent]

That's a good post you just quoted, don't see the problem.

**** outta here gay boy :oldlol:

[Fudge]

That's a good post you just quoted, don't see the problem.
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/26895373.jpg

Dude's actually serious. Get some help. :oldlol:

[longtime lurker]

Not only is the OP a retard, he's also a raging ******.



http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8060513&postcount=227

He sure does talk about ***** a lot.

Called it. He uses his Kobe hate as an outlet for his latent homosexuality

[DaPerceive]

yea, gotta change the subject cause u know lbj is superior


thats what i ****ing thought, kid.

[Fudge]

yea, gotta change the subject cause u know lbj is superior


thats what i ****ing thought, kid.
:roll:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5lbeaSSLl1r9i2fq.png

[avonbarksdale]

kobe is a basketball LEGEND. lebron is not

[Heavincent]

yea, gotta change the subject cause u know lbj is superior


thats what i ****ing thought, kid.

When you say "superior", are you talking about dick size? Because that's not how us straight folks analyze basketball.

It's okay though, I'm sure ISH will be understanding of your homosexuality.

[DaPerceive]

kobe is a basketball LEGEND. lebron is not
a legend at riding Shaq and Gasol for titles, imagine if Lebron was on those teams, 10 titles at least.

[G-Funk]

Lebron is not even top 20

[G-Funk]

Durant is not even top 50

[DaPerceive]

Lebron is not even top 20
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-laugh.gif

[Fudge]

RG got owned in this thread. :roll: Bookmarked for future lol's.

[DaPerceive]

So not a single person can actually explain how Kobe is better than Lebron and what Kobe is actually better than Lebron in. And you guys want Kobe to be considered to be better than Lebron? :oldlol:

[G-Funk]

So not a single person can actually explain how Kobe is better than Lebron and what Kobe is actually better than Lebron in. And you guys want Kobe to be considered to be better than Lebron? :oldlol:


Better scorer in ever aspect. and a better defender(in his prime) Thats all you need to know.


Only thing Bron has Kobe and Jordan beat is in passes, rebounds has nothing to do with skills, just position.

[red1]

Lebron is not even top 20

Durant is not even top 50
You are even worse than rocketsgreatness, terrible poster

[red1]

Better scorer in ever aspect. and a better defender(in his prime) Thats all you need to know.


Only thing Bron has Kobe and Jordan beat is in passes, rebounds has nothing to do with skills, just position.
:roll: such a childish analysis. kobe is a more skilled scorer but that doesn't even make him the better scorer

[longtime lurker]

:roll: such a childish analysis. kobe is a more skilled scorer but that doesn't even make him the better scorer

Actually he's easily the better scorer. I don't think anyone would even try to argue this aspect of the game.

[Chrono90]

a legend at riding Shaq and Gasol for titles, imagine if Lebron was on those teams, 10 titles at least.

If you think about it, LBJ went to join Wade and Bosh at each of their primes to form a team....

[red1]

Actually he's easily the better scorer. I don't think anyone would even try to argue this aspect of the game.
I take kobe too but it can be argued. especially if lbj keeps playing out of the post

[DaPerceive]

Actually he's easily the better scorer. I don't think anyone would even try to argue this aspect of the game.
Kobe was not better, he scored more volume but under much worse efficiency. Lebron could average 35+ PPG easily and he wouldn't shoot as bad as Kobe did.

[swag2011]

Kobe was not better, he scored more volume but under much worse efficiency. Lebron could average 35+ PPG easily and he wouldn't shoot as bad as Kobe did.

could've would've should've but he hasn't.

[DaPerceive]

could've would've should've but he hasn't.
Sure, and Kobe has never shot 50% or better like Lebron consistently does.

Efficiency >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> volume

[Fudge]

Anyways... What's up RG, have anything planned for this wonderful Friday night?

[Fudge]

No response?


:(

[longtime lurker]

I take kobe too but it can be argued. especially if lbj keeps playing out of the post

I don't actually think it can be argued. Kobe is literally one of the greatest scorers of all time. You can look at career highs, season highs, streaks etc. Lebron is a great scorer, but he won't be remembered for his scoring prowess. Just because someone averages 20 a game on over 50% shooting does not make them a better scorer than someone who averages 30 on sub 50% scoring.

[DaPerceive]

I don't actually think it can be argued. Kobe is literally one of the greatest scorers of all time. You can look at career highs, season highs, streaks etc. Lebron is a great scorer, but he won't be remembered for his scoring prowess. Just because someone averages 20 a game on over 50% shooting does not make them a better scorer than someone who averages 30 on sub 50% scoring.
He averaged 25-30 and has a scoring title. and lol at Kobe sub 50% scoring, the guy has ALWAYS been 45%, yeah, lets act like 5% is not a huge deal. :oldlol:

[red1]

I don't actually think it can be argued. Kobe is literally one of the greatest scorers of all time. You can look at career highs, season highs, streaks etc. Lebron is a great scorer, but he won't be remembered for his scoring prowess. Just because someone averages 20 a game on over 50% shooting does not make them a better scorer than someone who averages 30 on sub 50% scoring.
Kobe had some of the all-time great scoring performances no doubt and he is also right up there as the most skilled all-time but when it comes to effectiveness on the court, lebron is just as productive of a scorer as kobe. The two players are guarded completely differently but when you look at the end results the only real advantage kobe has is at the freethrow line.

[Ne 1]

He averaged 25-30 and has a scoring title. and lol at Kobe sub 50% scoring, the guy has ALWAYS been 45%, yeah, lets act like 5% is not a huge deal. :oldlol:
Nearly all of Lebron's points come from dunks, lay ups, close runners and spot up 3's. Of course he has a high FG% he isn't a great ft shooter though and he can't shoot past 15 feet. Btw 45% average from the field is good for a guard.

[DaPerceive]

Nearly all of Lebron's points come from dunks, lay ups, close runners and spot up 3's. Of course he has a high FG% he isn't a great ft shooter though and he can't shoot past 15 feet. Btw 45% average from the field is good for a guard.
Yea, Lebron is smarter for taking higher percentage shots.

[G-Funk]

You are even worse than rocketsgreatness, terrible poster
Its called trolling the troll, idiot :facepalm

[G-Funk]

Yea, Lebron is smarter for taking higher percentage shots.
Lebron is a cherry picker

[DaPerceive]

Lebron is a cherry picker
link?

in b4 no link

[Fudge]

Why are you guys still responding to this idiot? Isn't he making it blatantly obvious that he's not very good at trolling? :confusedshrug:

[scandisk_]

LBJ could average 33+ a game. Just don't expect him to grab the same number of rebounds and assists. His awesome stats for the expense of what? a few points?

[Ne 1]

Yea, Lebron is smarter for taking higher percentage shots.

Yet despite supposedly being "smarter" for shooting 4% higher from the field, Kobe has the advantages in FT% and 3P%.

[red1]

Its called trolling the troll, idiot :facepalm
No, everything you have ever posted is retarded and laker biased. Who's the troll that you are trolling here?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8086736&postcount=9
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8086733&postcount=8

[brandonislegend]

Negged when it returned

[Ne 1]

So not a single person can actually explain how Kobe is better than Lebron and what Kobe is actually better than Lebron in. And you guys want Kobe to be considered to be better than Lebron? :oldlol:

Kobe's talent is based on pure finesse, skill, craft, and technique, and not just natural size, strength, and speed. His experience, work ethic, drive, and hunger are unmatched.


Kobe has a more polished and refined game. He can score on you offensively in nearly every way possible and do it consistently.

He has the better offensive arsenal, better jumper, better post game, better on ball defense, more clutch, better overall skill set, offensive prowess, game management, maturity, fundamentals, foot work, etc etc.

Kobe is pure finesse, skill and technique, the SG version of Duncan.

LeBron relies solely on his athleticism. His speed, strength, jumping ability are what makes him a great player. But just wait until LeBron reaches 30 and looses his athleticism. He'll still be a good player, no doubt, but I doubt he'll be the same dominant force. Sort of reminds me of Vince Carter, how he was amazing when he had athleticism and when he got older he wasn't what he used to be.

I think it's rightfully justified for some people to admire someone who dedicated time to develop skills and work around their short-comings more than someone who just cannot be stopped because they are 6'8 270 pounds with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound guard.

[G-Funk]

No, everything you have ever posted is retarded and laker biased. Who's the troll that you are trolling here?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8086736&postcount=9
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8086733&postcount=8


you

[DaPerceive]

Kobe's talent is based on pure finesse, skill, craft, and technique, and not just natural size, strength, and speed. His experience, work ethic, drive, and hunger are unmatched.


Kobe has a more polished and refined game. He can score on you offensively in nearly every way possible and do it consistently.

He has the better offensive arsenal, better jumper, better post game, better on ball defense, more clutch, better overall skill set, offensive prowess, game management, maturity, fundamentals, foot work, etc etc.

Kobe is pure finesse, skill and technique, the SG version of Duncan.

LeBron relies solely on his athleticism. His speed, strength, jumping ability are what makes him a great player. But just wait until LeBron reaches 30 and looses his athleticism. He'll still be a good player, no doubt, but I doubt he'll be the same dominant force. Sort of reminds me of Vince Carter, how he was amazing when he had athleticism and when he got older he wasn't what he used to be.

I think it's rightfully justified for some people to admire someone who dedicated time to develop skills and work around their short-comings more than someone who just cannot be stopped because they are 6'8 270 pounds with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound guard.
Cool too bad Lebron is still better.

[DaPerceive]

Yet despite supposedly being "smarter" for shooting 4% higher from the field, Kobe has the advantages in FT% and 3P%.
and Lebron still has a higher TS% which combines all of the stats together




Nice try, kid.

[Ne 1]

Cool too bad Lebron is still better.

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

[longtime lurker]

Kobe had some of the all-time great scoring performances no doubt and he is also right up there as the most skilled all-time but when it comes to effectiveness on the court, lebron is just as productive of a scorer as kobe. The two players are guarded completely differently but when you look at the end results the only real advantage kobe has is at the freethrow line.

Well you're still not getting it. Ask any NBA player, analyst, etc to name the top scorers of all time and Lebron's name is not in the conversation. That's not Lebron's game, it takes a certain amount of stamina, skill and talent to be able to consistently score. Look up 30 point streaks, 40 point streaks back to back 50 point games. All these Kobe has done. Highest PPG average since Jordan. It's easy to say that Lebron could score more if he wanted to, but teams will also game plan for him differently when they know he's set on scoring. You can't assume that he can just drive or post up his way to 40 points every night, eventually teams will adjust and he doesn't have the offensively versatility to make up for it. Once he has to consistently rely on his jumper then what happens :confusedshrug:

[DaPerceive]

Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Nope, it's a fact, deal with it, kid. Kobe did nothing better than Lebron.

[Ne 1]

and Lebron still has a higher TS% which combines all of the stats together



True, it's marginally higher. But that's besides the point.

[DaPerceive]

True, it's marginally higher. But that's besides the point.
so what is your point? Kobe is inferior in every aspect.

[Ne 1]

Nope, it's a fact, deal with it, kid. Kobe did nothing better than Lebron.

He thinks his opinions are irrefutable facts.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/743875.jpg

[DaPerceive]

He thinks his opinions are irrefutable facts.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/743875.jpg
Pretty much is a fact considering how there isn't a single thing besides LOL, 5 rings that backs up Kobe being better. Kobe is inferior to Lebron in every aspect of the game.

[red1]

Yet despite supposedly being "smarter" for shooting 4% higher from the field, Kobe has the advantages in FT% and 3P%.
Let's not even get into stats, stats will always favour lbj.



LeBron relies solely on his athleticism. His speed, strength, jumping ability are what makes him a great player. But just wait until LeBron reaches 30 and looses his athleticism. He'll still be a good player, no doubt, but I doubt he'll be the same dominant force. Sort of reminds me of Vince Carter, how he was amazing when he had athleticism and when he got older he wasn't what he used to be.

I think it's rightfully justified for some people to admire someone who dedicated time to develop skills and work around their short-comings more than someone who just cannot be stopped because they are 6'8 270 pounds with the speed and agility of a 6'4 200 pound guard.
Why are kobe fans always so preoccupied with the fantasy of lebron losing his athleticism and supposedly becoming a scrub. This right here shows that you still don't understand lbj's game. Passing, defensive positioning, and making tough shots around the rim are skill based just as much as they are athleticism based so when he loses his speed and leaping ability he will leave the perimeter and just transition into a full-time powerforward.

He is a legit 6'8 260 and he will always have his upperbody strength and touch around the rim, and by that point, he will be comfortable enough in the post that he will be able to operate out of there at all times. Best passing bigman in the league with great defense and a servicable jumpshot is still be a top player in the league.

[Ne 1]

so what is your point? Kobe is inferior in every aspect.

Now find someone else that will agree with that who isn't a known Kobe detractor. You won't.

[Ne 1]

Pretty much is a fact considering how there isn't a single thing besides LOL, 5 rings that backs up Kobe being better. Kobe is inferior to Lebron in every aspect of the game.

Notice the complete lack of argumentation and intelligence. "It's a fact because I say so" is for idiots to feel like they're actually holding their own in an argument without actually having to use their brains.

This is why nobody takes you seriously, you have nothing except for emotional appeals and ad hominem.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Considering Kobe's first three rings were simply Shaq's gifts, I'd say Lebron is at least close to Kobe now. Wont take long for him to officially surpass Kobe, or maybe hes already better?

[G-Funk]

Considering Kobe's first three rings were simply Shaq's gifts, I'd say Lebron is at least close to Kobe now. Wont take long for him to officially surpass Kobe, or maybe hes already better?
yup cause Kobe didn't average 27/6/5, study ur NBA

[Deuce Bigalow]

Considering Kobe's first three rings were simply Shaq's gifts, I'd say Lebron is at least close to Kobe now. Wont take long for him to officially surpass Kobe, or maybe hes already better?
How many times are you going to repeat yourself? We already know you're a ****ing idiot.

[Ne 1]

Why are kobe fans


"Kobe fans" is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claiming authenticity for yourself.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.




preoccupied with the fantasy of lebron losing his athleticism and supposedly becoming a scrub.


I never said he would become a scrub when he loses his athleticism, I said he would still be a good player, just most likely not the same dominant force. Also, I don't think anyone will deny that LeBron's longevity could be somewhat limited compared to guys like Kobe or Jordan unless he adds some of those aspects I mentioned.

[Kiddlovesnets]

How many times are you going to repeat yourself? We already know you're a ****ing idiot.

You mad bro? It was just Shaq's one man show in Lakers 3-peat, Kobe really wasnt much more important than Robert Horry. Both were role players and could be replaced with the Lakers still cruising to the titles.

[Deuce Bigalow]

You mad bro? It was just Shaq's one man show in Lakers 3-peat, Kobe really wasnt much more important than Robert Horry. Both were role players and could be replaced with the Lakers still cruising to the titles.
OK. Cool. Now can you shut up?

[Simple Jack]

Ne_1 - why do you think Kobe is/was a better player than LeBron, considering their peaks? What makes him more valuable to a team, overall, than LeBron?

[Ne 1]

You mad bro? It was just Shaq's one man show in Lakers 3-peat, Kobe really wasnt much more important than Robert Horry. Both were role players and could be replaced with the Lakers still cruising to the titles.

You're not even a convincing troll. 0/10.

[G-Funk]

Lebron has an edge over Kobe on assist. He averages about 2 more than him which is not bad for Kobe.

I don't think rebounds matter so much because of the positions they play in.

As far as defense, I say one was a better 1 on 1 and the other is a better "help defender"(as far as peeks go).

When you think offense, even though Lebron averages 1-2 more made shots per game, Kobe's arsenal is superior, It takes a lot of skill to do what Kobe does and Lebron is not on par.

As far as leadership goes, I say it's a tie, they both do it in different ways and has worked for both.

[Kiddlovesnets]

OK. Cool. Now can you shut up?

So you accepted the truth? Good to see you finally understand reality.
:applause:

[jjayfive]

if both careers ended today, Kobe is better. Lebron will probably finish his career slightly higher than Kobe (I'm assuming Lebron will win another Ring).

[Simple Jack]

People need to ask themselves this question in terms of expectations as well. Think about what people expected of both Kobe and LeBron during their peak years.

One was given a pass (wasn't his fault his team blew the post-shaq, pre-gasol era) for losing; and the other was ridiculed to no end. LeBron was consistently expected to do more, with less; for the majority of their primes. The expectations were justified because we saw what level LeBron could play at, during various points of his career and in those specific seasons.

I could be looking at it wrong but type of perspective tends to sway the argument a bit when people come out talking nonsense about Player A being > Player B. I had someone tell me the other day that CP is just as valuable to a team as LeBron. Bringing up how CP's losses weren't even thought about twice while LeBron was getting ragged on despite having a much worse team, talent wise, changed his thoughts on the argument real quick.

[DKLaker]

You mad bro? It was just Shaq's one man show in Lakers 3-peat, Kobe really wasnt much more important than Robert Horry. Both were role players and could be replaced with the Lakers still cruising to the titles.



Wow are you stupid, obviously you didn't watch basketball during those years.

[Ne 1]

Ne_1 - why do you think Kobe is/was a better player than LeBron, considering their peaks?

Considering peak play; '01-'03/'06-'08 Kobe and '09/'10 and '12 LeBron are all in the same tier IMO. However, I wouldn't necessarily disagree with anyone that would say '09/'10 is above them all.


What makes him more valuable to a team, overall, than LeBron?

It's certainty debatable. Perhaps LeBron may have been more dominant at his peak than Kobe was, but when you consider Kobe's amazing longevity/durability and also that '01-'03 and '06-'08 Kobe is right there with '09/'10 and '12 LeBron. Not to mention Kobe does have 5 championships, that counts IMO. I know there are some who don't believe that winning should be a factor, but I value winning and peak play equally when it comes to ranking players.

[Mr. Jabbar]

The existence of this thread can only be explained by the complete lack of knowledge of the game by the OP (RocketGreatness). Which, by no means, is surprising.

[Ne 1]

One was given a pass (wasn't his fault his team blew the post-shaq, pre-gasol era) for losing; and the other was ridiculed to no end. LeBron was consistently expected to do more, with less; for the majority of their primes. The expectations were justified because we saw what level LeBron could play at, during various points of his career and in those specific seasons.


Seriously? Kobe was ridiculed as well. How many times did we here that Kobe can't and wouldn't have ever won anything without Shaq? After Miami won in 2006, all we heard was that Shaq was able to win a championship without Kobe, but Kobe can't even lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs without Shaq. Was Kobe not ridiculed to no end after the Lakers lost the '08 Finals? He was. Also, it's held more against LeBron that he didn't win because in '09 '10 and '11, his teams had championship expectations, unlike the Lakers during the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol era, but I'm sure you were well aware of this already. (It's the same reason why LeBron losing in the 2007 Finals or in the '08 or '06 playoffs weren't really held against him as much like the other year because they were heavy championship favorites.)

[RobertdeMeijer]

In 2010, Kobe shot a 3pointer from behind the backboard (game winning shot?), and if I recall well, LeBron did the same later that week.

I would love to see footage of that again.


Oh, and I think it'll take LeBron another two titles before he's ranked above Kobe, which I personally doubt will happen.

[Simple Jack]

Seriously? Kobe was ridiculed as well. How many times did we here that Kobe can't and wouldn't have ever win anything without Shaq? After Miami won in 2006, all we heard was that Shaq was able to win a championship without Kobe, but Kobe can't even lead his team past the 1st round of the playoffs without Shaq. Was Kobe not ridiculed to no end after the Lakers lost the '08 Finals? Also, it's held more against LeBron because in '09 '10 and '11, his teams had championship expectations, unlike the Lakers during the post-Shaq, pre-Gasol era, but I'm sure you're aware of this already.

I know Kobe got shit for it as well but lets not try to revise history and act like it was anywhere near the level of scrutiny and disappointment people felt when LeBron lost.

It was expected for Kobe to lose against the Suns. When was the last time anyone expected LeBron to do anything but win a chip? And I understand the Cavaliers had championship expectations; that's the point. He was hovering around 66 wins and 1 win shy of tying the all-time home record set by the Boston Celtics with....Mo Williams as his go-to guy.

Since he hit his peak the expectations on LeBron have been tremendous, and with good reason.

[Simple Jack]

In 2010, Kobe shot a 3pointer from behind the backboard (game winning shot?), and if I recall well, LeBron did the same later that week.

I would love to see footage of that again.


Oh, and I think it'll take LeBron another two titles before he's ranked above Kobe, which I personally doubt will happen.

Why would LeBron need another 2 titles (likely another 1+ regular season MVP) to just barely get inside the top 10? He's at worst ranked no lower than Moses right now who's just outside the top 10.

[No_Look604]

No grace at all to his game. It's like watching a running back hit the line. I'll admit he's getting better but honestly...

Lebron James and wade are not the nicest players to watch when you take out the fast break.

[Ne 1]

I know Kobe got shit for it as well but lets not try to revise history and act like it was anywhere near the level of scrutiny and disappointment people felt when LeBron lost.

Well I'd say after the Lakers lost in the '08 Finals, it was pretty much the same level of scrutiny with the whole "Kobe can't win without Shaq" mantras, "Kobe is a choker" etc. But anyway, let's not quibble over who received more scrutiny because it's irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that when you're the best player in the game, you're going to be held to a higher standard than everyone else, however unfair that may be, that's just way it is.


When was the last time anyone expected LeBron to do anything but win a chip?

2008.



And I understand the Cavaliers had championship expectations

Well there you have it then. When you're considered to be the best player in the game, on a team with championship expectations and you underachieve, then you're going to receive criticism and scrutiny, especially in LeBron's case with regards to his performances in 2010 against Boston and 2011 against Dallas.

[Simple Jack]

Well I'd say after the Lakers lost in the '08 Finals, it was pretty much the same level of scrutiny with the whole "Kobe can't win without Shaq" mantras, "Kobe is a choker" etc. But anyway, let's not quibble over who received more scrutiny because it's irrelevant. The fact of the matter is that when you're the best player in the game, you're going to be held to a higher standard than everyone else, however unfair that may be, that's just way it is.

It is relevant; especially when you consider the circumstances each were in, and the relative success they achieved.




2008.

Yea; before his peak.





Well there you have it then. When you're considered to be the best player in the game, on a team with championship expectations and you underachieve, then you're going to receive criticism and scrutiny, especially in LeBron's case with regards to his performances in 2010 against Boston and 2011 against Dallas.

What about 09? At it's very core; just understand the notion behind the expectations. We, as in me, you, everyone - expected LeBron James to win a championship with Mo Williams as his 2nd best player, and were severely disappointed when he could not do it.

We know Durant is arguably 2nd best player in the league, yet there is no disappointment or huge surprise if he loses to another great team. Hell, if the Lakers beat them last year, I wouldn't have shit bricks like the world did when the Cavaliers lost. Look at the talent Durant was surrounded with as well. Same with this year; the level of "this team better win or else..." does not exist with anyone but LeBron, and hasn't for some time now (I'm talking relatively recent).

[artex]

shouldnt we wait til players retire to start comparing/contrasting them on "all-time" lists ?

[SwayDizzle]

Nope, it's a fact, deal with it, kid. Kobe did nothing better than Lebron.
you seem like an idiot

[Money 23]

No grace at all to his game. It's like watching a running back hit the line. I'll admit he's getting better but honestly...
Down right FALSE. Don't confuse him being built like a tank for being clumsy or un-skilled. LeBron NOT being aesthetically pleasing has become a MYTH.

As if he's just this giant bull who averages 28 / 7 / 7 out of pure over powering of people. It's ridiculous.

The guy is a freak athlete, and during his peak was LIGHTING fast and even more amazing considering his sizable frame. A beauty to watch him leap.

Skill wise, his passing and court vision is arguable second to none. A skill mind you that not many "superstar" players in recent memory have had ... and if they did weren't at his level everywhere else (CP3, Kidd, Nash)

He handles the ball like a PG. Sick handle all things considered. He has a smooth jumper. Not as aesthetically pleasing as a Jordan or Kobe, but those are cream of the crop.

The only thing clunky and ugly about Bron's game is his atrocious foot work in the post. Very un-smooth.

Wade is VERY nice to watch, and EXTREMELY exciting when he's not playing for the foul call. When Wade just balls, and goes for buckets, he's ridiculously entertaining and fun to watch.

WTF kind of bball fan are you?

:biggums:

[boozehound]

No grace at all to his game. It's like watching a running back hit the line. I'll admit he's getting better but honestly...

Lebron James and wade are not the nicest players to watch when you take out the fast break.
who cares? Lebron is clearly "ranked" higher by most objective fans. There hasnt been as versatile a player since bird or magic. Honestly, I dont think many people who arent lakers fans still think kobe is or was a better player than lebron. And, I personally dont like either of them as personalities. Kobe is a dick and lebron is an insecure, unfunny douche.

[Bandito]

What's wrong about it? Can't refute my facts little boy? LOL.
What facts? Lebron at the end of his career is going to be over Kobe sans injury but right now he only has one ring and two years of quitting.

[Money 23]

What facts? Lebron at the end of his career is going to be over Kobe sans injury but right now he only has one ring and two years of quitting.
To be fair Kobe quit game 7 in 2006, quit game 6 of 2008 Finals, and looked like he gave in during the Mavs series in 2011.

[Sakkreth]

To be fair Kobe quit game 7 in 2006, quit game 6 of 2008 Finals, and looked like he gave in during the Mavs series in 2011.

You gonna get attacked for this truth :x

[TheMarkMadsen]

To be fair Kobe quit game 7 in 2006, quit game 6 of 2008 Finals, and looked like he gave in during the Mavs series in 2011.


he easily was playing the best ball out of anybody on that team. He may have been frustrated with the lack of effort from his two other best players on the team and with his coach basically admitting before game 4 that the series was over, the first 2 games of that series were extremely competitive, so to say he "gave in" during that series might have more to do with people only remembering the second half of game 4, after the MAVS went nuts from 3 and the entire lakers team looked crushed.

on a side not this is a compete troll thread. When comparing careers at this point Kobe's 17 years of accomplishments trump Lebron's 10 years of accomplishments.

Lebrons a great player, but you guys should wait until he's 17 years into his career before you start comparing CAREERS with Kobe, most of these arguments are based off speculation, and what "poster x" believes could happen one day.

[kennethgriffin]

what honestly favors kobe besides "LOLZ, 5 RINGS"

Lebron was just the flat out better player than Kobe in their peaks and primes. Kobe doesn't have even have the longevity advantage over him and even if he did, it's not that big of a deal because Lebron was just so much better in his prime.

more points
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should i go on?

[red1]

"Kobe fans" is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claiming authenticity for yourself.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.

The hell is the overanalyzed bullshit. Are you not a kobe fan? I am a raptor fan, you are a kobe fan and probably a laker fan too. The word fan is just a word to describe what you are. There is absolutely nothing offensive about describing someone as a kobe fan. Were I to call you a fanboy this would almost make sense but in this case you are just overthinking shit

[General]

more points
more playoff points
more all nba teams
more all defensive teams
more 1st teams
more 1st defensive teams
more allstar games
more allstar mvps
more finals
more finals mvps
more championships
more 80 point games
more 60 point games
more 50 point games
more 40 point games
more 30 point games
more three point records
more consecutive 50 point games
more consecutive 40 point games
more consecutive 30 point games
more points in 1 quarter
more points in a half
more points after 3 quarters
more game winning fg's
more game winning ft's
more consecutive free throws
more tnt player of the decade awards
more sporting news player of the decade awards
more sports illustrated player of the decade awards
more dime magazine player of the decade awards
more slam magazine top 10 all time rankings
more international success
more slam dunk championships
more scoring championships
more overall skills
more fundimentals
more footwork
more off hand
more hairline
more women
more money
more respect
more fans




should i go on?
:applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[red1]

who cares? Lebron is clearly "ranked" higher by most objective fans. There hasnt been as versatile a player since bird or magic. Honestly, I dont think many people who arent lakers fans still think kobe is or was a better player than lebron. And, I personally dont like either of them as personalities. Kobe is a dick and lebron is an insecure, unfunny douche.
+1. Lebron is a jackass drama queen and kobe used to be an unbearable f*gg*t too but they are both sick ballers who have been entertaining us and putting in work for a damn long time now. However, that doesnt change the fact that history will view lebron as the better player. Just pointing this out means that you are a jealous hater who is envious of "5 rings."

[Papaya Petee]

This "myth" that Kobe is a better scorer then LeBron STILL goes on? :roll: :roll:

LeBron- higher regular season PPG, playoffs PPG, Olympics PPG, better %

LeBron is the better passer lights out, better rebounder, better defender, better team player, and much more exciting to watch.

Take your "smoothness, footwork, offensive arsenal, creativity" and shove it up your ass cause at the end of the day LeBron will still get you more buckets then Kobe.


\thread.

[Shih508]

To be fair Kobe quit game 7 in 2006, quit game 6 of 2008 Finals, and looked like he gave in during the Mavs series in 2011.

Gave to Pistons in 2004. Got bailed out by ref in 2003 & 2011

[Kiddlovesnets]

more points
more playoff points
more all nba teams
more all defensive teams
more 1st teams
more 1st defensive teams
more allstar games
more allstar mvps
more finals
more finals mvps
more championships
more 80 point games
more 60 point games
more 50 point games
more 40 point games
more 30 point games
more three point records
more consecutive 50 point games
more consecutive 40 point games
more consecutive 30 point games
more points in 1 quarter
more points in a half
more points after 3 quarters
more game winning fg's
more game winning ft's
more consecutive free throws
more tnt player of the decade awards
more sporting news player of the decade awards
more sports illustrated player of the decade awards
more dime magazine player of the decade awards
more slam magazine top 10 all time rankings
more international success
more slam dunk championships
more scoring championships
more overall skills
more fundimentals
more footwork
more off hand
more hairline
more women
more money
more respect
more fans




should i go on?

This troll here... Gotta love the way you have Lebron 0.5 ring in your avatar. Oh forgot to tell you, if rings can be discounted, Kobe has 2.3 rings, not 5.
:cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

This troll here... Gotta love the way you have Lebron 0.5 ring in your avatar. Oh forgot to tell you, if rings can be discounted, Kobe has 2.3 rings, not 5.
:cheers:

when did kobe ever win a lockout championship by ring chasing


kobe winning a three peat with 25/5/5 combined over 3 seasons/playoffs is as legitimate as jerry wests only ring, 4 of kareems, 2 of magic johnsons, 1 of birds, and all 11 of bill russells


i give lebron an asterisk because it actually has one in nba record books

[Whoah10115]

Troll is powerful..look at all you.


And I'm adding...powerful:bowdown:

[Himan12]

Not a crazy fan boy of either but when its all said and done I think lbj will be rated higher than kobe. As of now kobe has had the better career and therefore should/is ranked higher than lbj on the all time list for now. But that doesnt nesscerily mean that he was/is the better player which is what I think most people get hung up on.

Looking at their careers stats thus far, the numbers are more in favor of lebron than they are of kobe. I'm not going to get into the all star selections and tv show/magazine awards crap since lbj hasnt been around as long as kobe.

When looking at effeciency lbj has kobe beat everywhere whether its ts%, efg%, fg%... ect. The reason for this I think is the difference between their b-ball iq, for all of kobe's fundamentals/work ethic he has been haunted by some pretty terrible shot selection during his career(and still is). Whether it would be jacking up and ill advised 3 with a hand in his face or forcing some bad shots against double teams. But due to the volume of shots he has taken especially from those 3s have led to some legendary scoring streaks and has added to his reputation as one of the greatest scorers to have played this game (which is well deserved). On the other hand Lbj is one of the greatest physical specimens in the history of this sport so its not hard to put together why he has been so efficient in terms of scoring as he could get to anywhere on the court with he wanted in his early 20s with that size and speed.

Now I'm not on board with the he will not be the best player when his athleticism leaves him wagon, as we have seen him developing a solid post game when he establishes a deep enough position to overpower his man for an easy bucket and also a nice face up jumper. His mechanics arent as eye pleasing or graceful as kobe's are but they get the job done. So yeah when he hits 30+ he wont be able to jump guys out of the gym anymore but that strength wont leave him anytime soon. Also lbj is also a much better facilitator, defender(thats including frobe), rebounder and I do not see how these are arguable.

In short lbj has been the better overall player when taking everything into account. Kobe is one of the greatest scorers and winningest players in the history of the game and can hurt you in many ways but lbj's strength, size, speed make his limited arsenal (which is ever evolving) devastatingly effective and efficient. Kobe is more accomplished, but if lbj continues his production for another 3-4 seasons or has 1 more dominant run in the playoffs on route to a title + fmvp, and I cant see how its possible to view kobe as the higher ranked player. Honestly all thats left for lbj is some more hardware and it will be a wrap.

[onhcetum]

All time Lebron and Miami hater here, but let's be honest. At Kobe's best, he wasn't ever better than Lebron. I don't see Kobe guiding a Cavs team to back to back 60+ win seasons and a trip to the finals. In Kobe's athletic prime/peak, he failed to make the playoffs and had two first round exits. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're someone who most people consider top 10 or maybe some top 5 of all time, you get it done and you put your team on your back. You should be that much better than everyone else (or so we think) that it doesn't matter. Where would Kobe be right now if they never got Gasol?

Kobe was not the first athlete to have played for a bad team. AI's 2001 team was bad, as were the two Nets teams Jason Kidd took to the finals. What about guys like Lebron, Dwight, and Duncan who were drafted by 20 win teams and end up turning them into contenders? Kobe will end up top 10 all time because of his scoring and how long he has been playing at a high level, but to be honest, I don't see the game changer in him like I do in guys like Nash, Kidd, Duncan, and Lebron.

By the way, stop throwing around these scoring numbers and records. So what? Unless, they are in the playoffs and in-route to a title, they mean very little. What did scoring 35 ppg do for Kobe that one year? It doesn't mean as much as Kobe fans think. Guys like Chris Paul and Deron Williams impact the game so much more being the point guard as well as the primary scoring option. How about a guy like Garnett or Duncan? People seem to forget that defense is 50% of the game. These guys are the defensive anchors of their respective teams for the past 15+ years now, still dominating the game. It's pretty demoralizing for opponents who can't get into the paint and have their shots either blocked or altered.

[swag2011]

All time Lebron and Miami hater here, but let's be honest. At Kobe's best, he wasn't ever better than Lebron. I don't see Kobe guiding a Cavs team to back to back 60+ win seasons and a trip to the finals. In Kobe's athletic prime/peak, he failed to make the playoffs and had two first round exits. I don't care how bad your team is, if you're someone who most people consider top 10 or maybe some top 5 of all time, you get it done and you put your team on your back. You should be that much better than everyone else (or so we think) that it doesn't matter. Where would Kobe be right now if they never got Gasol?

Kobe was not the first athlete to have played for a bad team. AI's 2001 team was bad, as were the two Nets teams Jason Kidd took to the finals. What about guys like Lebron, Dwight, and Duncan who were drafted by 20 win teams and end up turning them into contenders? Kobe will end up top 10 all time because of his scoring and how long he has been playing at a high level, but to be honest, I don't see the game changer in him like I do in guys like Nash, Kidd, Duncan, and Lebron.

By the way, stop throwing around these scoring numbers and records. So what? Unless, they are in the playoffs and in-route to a title, they mean very little. What did scoring 35 ppg do for Kobe that one year? It doesn't mean as much as Kobe fans think. Guys like Chris Paul and Deron Williams impact the game so much more being the point guard as well as the primary scoring option. How about a guy like Garnett or Duncan? People seem to forget that defense is 50% of the game. These guys are the defensive anchors of their respective teams for the past 15+ years now, still dominating the game. It's pretty demoralizing for opponents who can't get into the paint and have their shots either blocked or altered.

Boy i sure hope you use this same logic when MJ was getting knocked out first round constantly until he got Pippen. Man, where would MJ be without Pippen? Do we all forget how Magic lit his ass up in game 1 of the finals, then they had to put Pippen on MJ?

And sorry Kobe didn't have the luxury of playing against teams that were .500 in the first and second round of the playoffs each year. Sorry he actually had to face 50+ win teams on a daily basis. Lebron only beat 1 50+ win team in the playoffs before going to Miami. Let me repeat LEBRON ONLY BEAT 1 50+ WIN TEAM BEFORE GOING TO MIAMIYou sit up and say stop throwing around those scoring records but at the same time praise a dude for winning 60 games, yet he failed to win the championship. twice. when he was the favorite to win in those years they won 60 games. I NEVER heard anybody refer to them as being a bad team until they lost.

Not even gunna comment on anything else because to be honest it sounds stupid. But hey, everyone has their opinions.

[Himan12]

Boy i sure hope you use this same logic when MJ was getting knocked out first round constantly until he got Pippen. Man, where would MJ be without Pippen? Do we all forget how Magic lit his ass up in game 1 of the finals, then they had to put Pippen on MJ?

And sorry Kobe didn't have the luxury of playing against teams that were .500 in the first and second round of the playoffs each year. Sorry he actually had to face 50+ win teams on a daily basis. Lebron only beat 1 50+ win team in the playoffs before going to Miami. Let me repeat LEBRON ONLY BEAT 1 50+ WIN TEAM BEFORE GOING TO MIAMI You sit up and say stop throwing around those scoring records but at the same time praise a dude for winning 60 games, yet he failed to win the championship. twice. when he was the favorite to win in those years they won 60 games. I NEVER heard anybody refer to them as being a bad team until they lost.

Not even gunna comment on anything else because to be honest it sounds stupid. But hey, everyone has their opinions.

Winning in the playoffs and ultimately the championship is a team accomplishment. I dont know who in their right minds would pick a 1 man team to go all the way and win it all. Generally a team that does really well in the regular season would have depth and quality starters which the cavs did during their lbj era. They built a pretty good regular season team around him with shooters/bigs that hustled and played good team orientated D.

The problem is they didnt have that legit second option (hell they didnt even have a third option). Which would have helped lbj against the celtics/magic/spurs of the world. Because the playoffs are all about how your stars perform when the opposing teams key in on your team's strengths and weaknesses and stars can perform when they are under constant pressure while role players cannot. Thats why deep teams with a couple of stars vs one superstar teams usually end with the star studded team prevailing.

Those lbj cavs highlighted his greatness, in no way or shape did that team dim his talent as evident by the following season after the decision.

[Kiddlovesnets]

when did kobe ever win a lockout championship by ring chasing


kobe winning a three peat with 25/5/5 combined over 3 seasons/playoffs is as legitimate as jerry wests only ring, 4 of kareems, 2 of magic johnsons, 1 of birds, and all 11 of bill russells


i give lebron an asterisk because it actually has one in nba record books

But in that three-peat it was basically Shaq's one man show, Kobe was an unimportant role player just like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher. The three rings were simply Shaq's gift, if discounted its only worth 0.1 maximum.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Can we close this thread already, whats up with mods these days???

Its already made clear Lebron can't even see Kobes head in the GOAT list due to all the ppl standing between them...

[miles berg]

Lol, not a fanatic for either or them but Kobe is most definitely above LeBron...at this point.

[Bandito]

To be fair Kobe quit game 7 in 2006, quit game 6 of 2008 Finals, and looked like he gave in during the Mavs series in 2011.
he didn't quit in 2008 and 2011. In 2008 Pierce flat out beat him in that game and his body was too banged up to do everything like he's used too in 2011. The only time where you could say he quit was in 2006 and that could be argued as the Suns waking up and just being the better team. Because that Suns team went to the conference finals, the same year the mavs went to the finals.

[kennethgriffin]

But in that three-peat it was basically Shaq's one man show, Kobe was an unimportant role player just like Robert Horry and Derek Fisher. The three rings were simply Shaq's gift, if discounted its only worth 0.1 maximum.


http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/fdrewf.png

:oldlol:

only jordan and kobe have a 25/5/5 average over a 3peat in nba history

his 2001 playoffs was better than 95% of actual finals mvps


1 man show?

[jstern]

If we're talking strictly as players and not team success then it's pretty obvious that Lebron is ahead, better than Kobe every was.

[Ken_Masters]

I'm no fan of LeBron, but i can clearly see that James is a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant is or has ever been.

[kennethgriffin]

If we're talking strictly as players and not team success then it's pretty obvious that Lebron is ahead, better than Kobe every was.



so prime overall stat production without consideration of skill and just pure dominating smaller/slower people in their peak seasons is now the judgement of all time status. without regarding any at all team success/longevity/fundamentals or clutch

so the best players all time are

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 shaq
#4 hakeem
#5 jordan
#6 baylor
#7 west
#8 barry
#9 lebron or kobe
#10 tmac
#11 iverson

and guys like magic, russell, bird, duncan all fall down to around top 25-30 i guess

:confusedshrug:


:hammerhead:

[Simple Jack]

so prime overall stat production without consideration of skill and just pure dominating smaller/slower people in their peak seasons is now the judgement of all time status. without regarding any at all team success/longevity/fundamentals or clutch

so the best players all time are

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 shaq
#4 hakeem
#5 jordan
#6 baylor
#7 west
#8 barry
#9 lebron or kobe
#10 tmac
#11 iverson

and guys like magic, russell, bird, duncan all fall down to around top 25-30 i guess

:confusedshrug:


:hammerhead:

You should open up a school on trolling. You would make bank.

[BrickingStar]

If we're talking strictly as players and not team success then it's pretty obvious that Lebron is ahead, better than Kobe every was.
Agreed kobe as the better career but I have lebron as an individual Bball player over kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

Agreed kobe as the better career but I have lebron as an individual Bball player over kobe.


its funny how the only guys people use the absolute peak output argument are when its a shaq/kobe or lebron/kobe argument


then when its shaq vs jordan or lebron vs magic it goes back to knowledgeable debating where everything counts


:lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

so prime overall stat production without consideration of skill and just pure dominating smaller/slower people in their peak seasons is now the judgement of all time status. without regarding any at all team success/longevity/fundamentals or clutch

so the best players all time are

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 shaq
#4 hakeem
#5 jordan
#6 baylor
#7 west
#8 barry
#9 lebron or kobe
#10 tmac
#11 iverson

and guys like magic, russell, bird, duncan all fall down to around top 25-30 i guess

:confusedshrug:


:hammerhead:

:applause:

pretty much.

Bron stans love making their all time rankings with just a couple of boxscores at hand, completely missing every context and important aspect of the game :facepalm . It comes as no surprise the vast majority hasn't entered puberty yet.

[talkingconch]

this thread actually made it to 12 pages :facepalm

[jstern]

:applause:

pretty much.

Bron stans love making their all time rankings with just a couple of boxscores at hand, completely missing every context and important aspect of the game :facepalm . It comes as no surprise the vast majority hasn't entered puberty yet.

I think people are basing it more with what they see with their own eyes. Results, taking into consideration the talent of the teams in Cleavland and the Lakers, etc, and difference Lebron can make. For example this season, Kobe is playing amazing, but it's not the type of player that elevates a team, like Lebron. If you want to go and believe that it's about box scores, then go ahead and stay in denial.

[KG215]

its funny how the only guys people use the absolute peak output argument are when its a shaq/kobe or lebron/kobe argument


then when its shaq vs jordan or lebron vs magic it goes back to knowledgeable debating where everything counts


:lol
Because at his peak Shaq was the best player on a a team with Kobe and led them to three straight championships. Not to mention, at his peak, Shaq may have been better than any other NBA player ever. And with LeBron, he's still in his prime and at his peak, so that's really all they have to use.

[kennethgriffin]

I think people are basing it more with what they see with their own eyes. Results, taking into consideration the talent of the teams in Cleavland and the Lakers, etc, and difference Lebron can make. For example this season, Kobe is playing amazing, but it's not the type of player that elevates a team, like Lebron. If you want to go and believe that it's about box scores, then go ahead and stay in denial.


people see what they wanna see

if you're a lebron fan. obviously his games will look better than kobes. you'l think hes an overrated chucker, a bad teammate, a rapist who was just lucky enough to play with decent big men and was carried to 3 titles by shaq. then carried by gasol for 2 more. everything kobe did or does is irrelevant if it doesnt favor lebron or fit an agenda

if you're a kobe fan. obviously his games will look better than lebrons. you'l think hes an overrated stat padder with no footwork or fundamentals, a ring chaser who quit on his team and needed to make a prime 3 superstar colluding team where 2 other mvp candidates that had to sacrifice their careers in order to prop up lebrons like a kick stand. a guy who the media uses as its poster boy to sell ads, commercials and keeps investing money and awards into him so they can build more of an iconic image. a guy who chokes under pressure and only has a minor amount of success because of a lockout shortend season in which every star of every other team was injured seemingly. everything... well the one thing lebron did was irrelevant. and its always about whatever fits our agenda.


so in the end the only thing that cant be disguised is results


kobe wins

the end

[KG215]

if you're a lebron fan. obviously his games will look better than kobes. you'l think hes an overrated chucker, a bad teammate, a rapist who was just lucky enough to play with decent big men and was carried to 3 titles by shaq. then carried by gasol for 2 more. everything kobe did or does is irrelevant if it doesnt favor lebron or fit an agenda
I like how in this paragraph you just four things and one of them has nothing to do with basketball.



if you're a kobe fan. obviously his games will look better than lebrons. you'l think hes an overrated stat padder with no footwork or fundamentals, a ring chaser who quit on his team and needed to make a prime 3 superstar colluding team where 2 other mvp candidates that had to sacrifice their careers in order to prop up lebrons like a kick stand. a guy who the media uses as its poster boy to sell ads, commercials and keeps investing money and awards into him so they can build more of an iconic image. a guy who chokes under pressure and only has a minor amount of success because of a lockout shortend season in which every star of every other team was injured seemingly. everything... well the one thing lebron did was irrelevant. and its always about whatever fits our agenda.
And in LeBron's paragraph you listed a shitload more, half of them having nothing to do with basketball, and expect us to think you're being fair and objective.

[kennethgriffin]

I like how in this paragraph you just four things and one of them has nothing to do with basketball.



And in LeBron's paragraph you listed a shit ton o things, half of them having nothing to do with basketball, and expect us to think you're being fair and objective.


my post and your post is exactly what my point was about

even objective fans are still fans. they see things through biased eyes



nobody can just use their heart to judge a player. its about results, careers, numbers, awards, championships, records, success, longevity


its not about "well i like lebron so"


sorry


kobe > lebron... this isnt my biased opinion. his career is lightyears ahead of james

[tpols]

What I don't get is..

Kobe puts up 29/7/6 with first team all defense and wins a championship

And

LeBron puts up 29/8/8 with first team defense and wins a championship

And lebron's championship is worth 10x the amount.

Then kobe puts up 30/5/5 with inferior defense eight years later in his career and THAT is considered 10x better than the first one I listed.

Our rankings are seriously seriously flawed.

[red1]

kennethgriffin is accusing others of being biased?


http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[kennethgriffin]

kennethgriffin is accusing others of being biased?


http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif


everyones biased. some more than others

including me


fact is someone who says careers dont matter and i just tell it how i see it as a lebron fan" isnt really helping their case as an objective viewer

[red1]

everyones biased. some more than others

including me


fact is someone who says careers dont matter and i just tell it how i see it as a lebron fan" isnt really helping their case as an objective viewer
dawg you are not biased. you are retarded

[red1]

everyones biased. some more than others

including me


fact is someone who says careers dont matter and i just tell it how i see it as a lebron fan" isnt really helping their case as an objective viewer
rocketsgreatness is a troll noone seriously believes that lebron is ranked above kobe right now

[KG215]

everyones biased. me, more than most.

Fixed.



fact is someone who says careers dont matter and i just tell it how i see it as a lebron fan" isnt really helping their case as an objective viewer
Um, I hate to break it to you, but you've never helped Kobe's case. Never. Not even a little bit. Any semi-intelligent poster takes almost nothing you post about Kobe seriously.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What I don't get is..

Kobe puts up 29/7/6 with first team all defense and wins a championship

And

LeBron puts up 29/8/8 with first team defense and wins a championship

And lebron's championship is worth 10x the amount.

Then kobe puts up 30/5/5 with inferior defense eight years later in his career and THAT is considered 10x better than the first one I listed.

Our rankings are seriously seriously flawed.


Dat LOGIC.

People here either forget or are to young to remember Kobe in that first 3 peat.

Those of us that remember the 4th quarter against Portland, the 48 & 16 in the WCF.

The domination in the 2001 WCF

And much more, those who remember that who just choose not to ignor it know how amazing Kobe was during that 3 peat.

Kobe bailed those Lakers teams out a lot

[kennethgriffin]

Fixed.



Um, I hate to break it to you, but you've never helped Kobe's case. Never. Not even a little bit. Any semi-intelligent poster takes almost nothing you post about Kobe seriously.


kobe has never and will never need my help

why? because his career is built on what hes accomplished. not what his fans say on message boards


like lebron fans. they need his fans support. because his career is built on word of mouth and opinion


ive never said anything that wasnt just reminding people what kobes done. thats not my opinion


its lebron fans who are building a case based on "well i watched this guy and that guy and i think this guy was better at this point than the other guy"


:roll:

[Kiddlovesnets]

when did kobe ever win a lockout championship by ring chasing


kobe winning a three peat with 25/5/5 combined over 3 seasons/playoffs is as legitimate as jerry wests only ring, 4 of kareems, 2 of magic johnsons, 1 of birds, and all 11 of bill russells


i give lebron an asterisk because it actually has one in nba record books

You just wont quit. Kobe is a nonfactor in Lakers three-peat, he was simply riding on Shaq like the rest of LA players were. If rings can be discounted like you were doing, Kobe has 0.1 ring in that Lakers three-peat at best. This means 2.3 rings.

[tpols]

You just wont quit. Kobe is a nonfactor in Lakers three-peat, he was simply riding on Shaq like the rest of LA players were. If rings can be discounted like you were doing, Kobe has 0.1 ring in that Lakers three-peat at best. This means 2.3 rings.
29/7/6 is nothing? That's almost what Bron averaged last year.

[red1]

kobe has never and will never need my help

why? because his career is built on what hes accomplished. not what his fans say on message boards


like lebron fans. they need his fans support. because his career is built on word of mouth and opinion


ive never said anything that wasnt just reminding people what kobes done. thats not my opinion


its lebron fans who are building a case based on "well i watched this guy and that guy and i think this guy was better at this point than the other guy"


:roll:
:oldlol: I see where you are going with this. Lemme ask you a simple question. If kobe gets his 6th this year is he equal to jordan in your eyes?

[Kiddlovesnets]

29/7/6 is nothing? That's almost what Bron averaged last year.

Kobe's first three rings were all Shaq's gifts, its the truth no one can deny.

[tpols]

Kobe's first three rings were all Shaq's gifts, its the truth no one can deny.
There are an average of 100 points scored per game my friend. Teams rpass, shoot, rebound, and run all around the court for 48 minutes to put the ball in the hole 40-50 times each over the course of the game.

Kobe put in 30 percent of his teams points, grabbed like 15 percent of his teams rebounds, and led his team in successful passes that led directly to buckets while being the teams best closer and clutch player. That's riding someone's back? It makes no sense anyway you look at it.

Do you have an argument above a third grade level?

[longtime lurker]

Kobe's first three rings were all Shaq's gifts, its the truth no one can deny.

Are you another stateofmind troll account or just retarded?

[KG215]

kobe has never and will never need my help
Then why the hell do you start so many damn Kobe threads? And why are 99% of your posts Kobe related?


why? because his career is built on what hes accomplished. not what his fans say on message boards
:oldlol:

You act like if it wasn't for LeBron's fans posting about him on here, no one would know how good he is. You act like LeBron's in his mid or late 30's and his career is winding down without him accomplishing much. He just turned 28 years old and already has an extremely impressive resume: 3x MVP, 1x FMVP, 1x Champ, 6x All-NBA 1st Team, 2x All-NBA 2nd Team, 4x All-Defense 1st Team in 10 seasons. It's not unreasonable to think he could play at or close to this level for another 3-5 seasons. It's not like he's not going to add to his resume. But, in my opinion, he needs another ring or two in order to be ranked close to or above Kobe in the all-time rankings.



like lebron fans. they need his fans support. because his career is built on word of mouth and opinion
No, dipshit, his career is built on him being a damn good basketball player, and being the best player in the world for arguably fiive years now, and three or four years at the very least. And every player's legacy standing is built largely on opinion, especially in the message board community.


ive never said anything that wasnt just reminding people what kobes done. thats not my opinion
Right, but that's not all you do. You also manipulate certain "facts", mold your opinions around them, put basically nothing into context, and act like everything you say is indisputable.


its lebron fans who are building a case based on "well i watched this guy and that guy and i think this guy was better at this point than the other guy"
I agree in that legacy/all-time ranking wise Kobe is higher than LeBron right now. But when someone says or wants to argue this version of LeBron (prime/peak LeBron) is better than prime/peak Kobe, they have a very legit argument. We'll see what LeBron's doing in six years at 34 years old, but right now LeBron very well may be as good or better than Kobe was in his prime.

[longtime lurker]

Winning in the playoffs and ultimately the championship is a team accomplishment. I dont know who in their right minds would pick a 1 man team to go all the way and win it all. Generally a team that does really well in the regular season would have depth and quality starters which the cavs did during their lbj era. They built a pretty good regular season team around him with shooters/bigs that hustled and played good team orientated D.

The problem is they didnt have that legit second option (hell they didnt even have a third option). Which would have helped lbj against the celtics/magic/spurs of the world. Because the playoffs are all about how your stars perform when the opposing teams key in on your team's strengths and weaknesses and stars can perform when they are under constant pressure while role players cannot. Thats why deep teams with a couple of stars vs one superstar teams usually end with the star studded team prevailing.

Those lbj cavs highlighted his greatness, in no way or shape did that team dim his talent as evident by the following season after the decision.

Well at a certain point there has to be something to differentiate players besides stats. If two players put up identical stats then how do you differentiate them? It seems to me that people will believe what they believe, if you believe that Lebron has always been better than Kobe the no amount of evidence, stats, support, statements from analysts, legends etc will make you even consider the contrary. And if that's the case I hope you're ready to change your whole top 10 list because if we just go by pure stats disregarding championships then Wilt should unquestionably be number 1. So let me ask you if championships really don't matter would people say Lebron is better than Kobe if he hadn't won a championship last year?

[MaxFly]

Kobe's first three rings were all Shaq's gifts, its the truth no one can deny.

You didn't answer his question. Is 29/7/6 nothing? Be honest with yourself for a second... If your favorite player had the opportunity to play with Shaq and averaged 29/7/6 for the post season playing next to Shaq on the way to a championship, would you call that "nothing?"

[La Frescobaldi]

Well at a certain point there has to be something to differentiate players besides stats. If two players put up identical stats then how do you differentiate them? It seems to me that people will believe what they believe, if you believe that Lebron has always been better than Kobe the no amount of evidence, stats, support, statements from analysts, legends etc will make you even consider the contrary. And if that's the case I hope you're ready to change your whole top 10 list because if we just go by pure stats disregarding championships then Wilt should unquestionably be number 1. So let me ask you if championships really don't matter would people say Lebron is better than Kobe if he hadn't won a championship last year?

He is number 1.

Wilt, Jordan and Kareem stand apart from everyone else that's ever played in the NBA.

[bizil]

No way in hell Bron is rated over Kobe in the all time rankings. But Bron is in my top ten right now. U gotta realize many keep Bird in the top 10 GOAT and rightfully so. But Bron is under 300 points away from 20,000 career points. Bird have a little over 21,000 career points. Bird has 3 MVPs and Bron has 3 MVPs. Bron after this year could likely be regarded as the GOAT SF! Which would catapult him in the top 6-8 GOAT arguably of all time. Kobe on the other hand is making an assault on the top 5 GOAT and is still going strong. So if anything, Bron is still playing some catchup to Kobe. But over time Bron will likely pass Kobe and go for MJ's spot.

[Heilige]

29/7/6 is nothing? That's almost what Bron averaged last year.


What did Kobe average in each of his championship runs? And, how would you rank them from best to worst?

[tpols]

What did Kobe average in each of his championship runs? And, how would you rank them from best to worst?
29/7/6
26/5/5
29/6/5
30/5/5
21/5/4

I'd put them in order 2009, 2001, 2010, 2002, 2000. Four out of five of his championships are carrying serious weight to anyone who knows anything about bball.

[Sarcastic]

He is number 1.

Wilt, Jordan and Kareem stand apart from everyone else that's ever played in the NBA.


I'd put Magic over Jabbar. KAJ never won in LA till Magic finally came along.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What did Kobe average in each of his championship runs? And, how would you rank them from best to worst?

How would you rate them?