Better overall player: Iverson (during his prime) or Westbrook (currently in prime)?

[hawkfan]

Better overall player: Allen Iverson (during his prime) or Russell Westbrook (currently in prime)?

Not just individually, but also on making his team better.

Both have one trip to the Finals.
Both have All-Star appearances.

Discuss.

[MetsPackers]

I'm not sure Westbrook has quite reached his prime yet; maybe his scoring prime and athletic prime, but if he develops further into a smarter player and scoring POINTGUARD then I think he could score less but be much more valuable further down the road. Or, he could be STeve Francis and decline with his athleticism. But I think Russ could ultimately learn how to lean slightly more towards getting teammates involved while still being the scorer that he naturally is.

But to answer the question of prime AI v. current goatbrook:

Iverson by a pretty decent margin IMO

[AngelEyes]

As much as I detested Iverson's putrid efficiency, Westbrook has yet to elevate himself to A.I.'s level.

[Fallguy20]

http://www.tickld.com/images/gif/2202ca75470304ff347209073b44cb2c.png

Sometimes people forget through the drama and BS how great a player A.I. was. Westbrook is good, but I wouldn't consider building a team around him, whereas A.I. I just might.

[MetsPackers]

I think if you replace Russ right now with prime AI the Thunder are the best team in the L :confusedshrug:

not aimed at you^

[AngelEyes]

http://www.tickld.com/images/gif/2202ca75470304ff347209073b44cb2c.png

Sometimes people forget through the drama and BS how great a player A.I. was. Westbrook is good, but I wouldn't consider building a team around him, whereas A.I. I just might.

Do you long for the early 2000's as I sometimes do? I know the quality of play wasn't so spectacular but there were a lot of players I miss from that era.

[Nevaeh]

This should be an intriguing thread, because both players are so similar, both play with heart and passion, and both were pretty much "Iron men" during their primes. The edge I'll give to AI is that he played less "outta control" than Westbrook, considering the teammates they both had to work with, and AI's "ball-handling" was not to be f@cked with.

Had AI had a 2012 Durant, I could see the '6ers upsetting the Lakers in 2001.

[All Net]

Westbrook isn't in his prime yet..

[arifgokcen]

This should be an intriguing thread, because both players are so similar, both play with heart and passion, and both were pretty much "Iron men" during their primes. The edge I'll give to AI is that he played less "outta control" than Westbrook, considering the teammates they both had to work with, and AI's "ball-handling" was not to be f@cked with.

Had AI had a 2012 Durant, I could see the '6ers upsetting the Lakers in 2001.
Had AI had durant it wouldnt havebeen upset.

[Chapallaz]

If Westrbook had to make do with what Iverson had back then, he'd miss the playoffs.

[JerryWest]

Iverson but I don't think Westbrook is in his prime yet.

[Budadiiii]

Iverson all day everyday

[WillC]

The answer is The Answer.

[NLZ]

are you ok in the head hawkfan? There's no comparison.

[notatop29pg]

May as well compare Calderon to Stockton.

Speed - Iverson
Vertical - Westbrook
Handles - Iverson
Playmaking - Iverson
Shot - Iverson
Clutch - Iverson
D - Iverson

[Shepseskaf]

Even when he reaches his prime, RW will never get to AI's level. He just doesn't have the grit, toughness or pure raw ability.

People ridiculously underrate AI. Arguably in the top 20 all-time, but definitely in the top 30.

[wally_world]

AI

He gets too much bad rep around here. AI in his prime is a warrior that scores the ball at will and carried a bunch of scrubs to the finals.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'd rather have Westbrook.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Iverson shits on Westbrook every way possible. Has Westbrook even hit a clutch game winner yet? Iverson destroyed nigs in the 4th quarter

[kNicKz]

Iverson

[fpliii]

Iverson over current Westbrook (though WB is an elite man defender now; AI's defense was limited to gambling heavily in passing lanes), but we don't know how prime Westbrook will play

[PAOK]

iverson easily

[bizil]

AI is flat out the better player no questions asked. If u wanna break it down by who is the better all around player, then sure Westbrook could have a shot at that maybe. But better all around isn't the better player in ALL cases. Larry Brown did a genius move and put AI at SG. Which means u judge AI by SG standards in many ways. In terms of scoring and passing as a package, AI is one of the top 3-4 SG's ever in my book.

AI as a PG would have been perceived in a similar fashion to Westbrook, Parker, and Rose, but a better version of that style of PG. Westbrook is a great player too and is still getting used to the nuances of being a PG. But ultimately, most of the greatest PG's of all time are epic floor generals who drop the dimes and lead first. And then score and be an alpha dog when its time. Westbrook doesn't quite have that balance yet, even though I would take him over many pass first PG's.

[D-nugz]

A.I and it's not even a contest.
A.I use to be overrated but now he is so underrated it's quite sad.

[StroShow4]

You can't be serious. Allen Iverson.

[Foster5k]

Iverson and not close. Dude lead a pack of scrubs to the NBA finals. People forget how good Iverson actually was.

Hell, they only lost to, arguably, the best playoff team in NBA history. 00s Lakers with prime Shaq and prime Kobe.

[Lebron23]

Give me Prime Allen Iverson. He scored 48 points againts the best team in the 2000's in the NBA Finals.

[tmacattack33]

I'd take Iverson slightly.

Currently I'd have Westbrook as the second best PG behind CP3.

[FatComputerNerd]

Is this a joke thread?

Iverson >>>>>

[TheMarkMadsen]

Sometimes when I start to lose faith in ISH I see a thread like this that reminds me people can be logical and have watched basketball before.

Iverson and its not even close

[inclinerator]

ai

[Chrono90]

AI is seriously underrated on this board

[TheMarkMadsen]

AI is seriously underrated on this board

That's what I thought to... Until this thread :applause:

[Segatti]

Iverson is a much better scorer.

[Ken_Masters]

Iverson was capable of erupting for 40 or 50 points any game. He was just a better player than Westbrook.

[coin24]

Iverson>>>>>> westbrick...

Anyone that disagrees never watched AI play..

[Vertical-24]

I like Westbrook but this is going to have to go to Iverson. But I don't believe Russ is truly in his prime yet and he has so much time to improve.

[dajadeed]

Iverson was leaps and bounds ahead of Westbrook. Westbrook is young so this is unfair, but it is silly at this point.

[kNicKz]

Westbrook is young so this is unfair,

Not it's not. In this stage of AI's career he was the 1st pick, had a rookie of the year award, and a scoring title.

[longtime lurker]

Better overall player: Allen Iverson (during his prime) or Russell Westbrook (currently in prime)?

Not just individually, but also on making his team better.

Both have one trip to the Finals.
Both have All-Star appearances.

Discuss.

Serious question. ARe you retarded?

[dajadeed]

Not it's not. In this stage of AI's career he was the 1st pick, had a rookie of the year award, and a scoring title.

Dude I'm saying it's Iverson by a bit. Just pointing out Russ is in a different situation and Iverson never played with a Durant like talent.

But yeah, Iverson is just better in the end lol

[kNicKz]

Dude I'm saying it's Iverson by a bit

I'm saying that it's Iverson by a massive landslide

[ClutchOver9000]

Iverson every day and twice on Sundays...c'mon man, Westbrook is very talented but c'mon...

This is not a contest.

[red1]

Two of my favourite points guards who both went off for 40+ in a finals game. Iverson has been better up to now but goatbrook is on pace to have a great career

[Mr. Jabbar]

If Westrbook had to make do with what Iverson had back then, he'd miss the playoffs.

Here is the answer. :applause:


By a mile.

[Bigsmoke]

May as well compare Calderon to Stockton.

Speed - Iverson
Vertical - Westbrook
Handles - Iverson
Playmaking - Iverson
Shot - Iverson
Clutch - Iverson
D - Iverson

disagree

[lefthook00]

AI was one of the best to EVER do it. If AI was Kobe's height, he would possibly be the best of all time. Shit, if he was Westbrook's height, he would be top 10.

[stevieming]

Iverson, both players are similar in terms of the approach, me first scoring...

Can't think of many better then Iverson in that respect, apart from Jordan and Kobe.

And Westbrook is in his prime right now, when he plays more mature that's when he'll have lost his athleticism, until then he'll always play his way, 100% full throttle.

And he can't improve his passing, just doesn't see his team mates the way say Andre Miller/Nash/etc can.

Can't believe OP even asked the question to be honest.

[andgar923]

The obvious answer like others have mentioned is well

[spiegel]

Is this a Joke?. AI

[Force]

LOL @ the OP asking this question.

AI by light years, it's not even close.

[D.J.]

Iverson easily. You're talking a multiple time 30+ PPG scorer and legit MVP. In Westbrook's defense, he hasn't hit his prime yet as he's only 24, but let's be realistic.

[Doctor Rivers]

I'd rather have Westbrook.

I'd rather have you not post.

[No_Look604]

iverson has a bball move for every name in the phonebook, sonny.

[Da KO King]

Rather have Westbrook. The same logic that people use when saying "if Iverson played with Kevin Durant the Thunder would..." is the same reason everyone thought Iverson and Carmelo Anthony would be a great pairing.

Allen Iverson never was and never will be as good as your memories and highlight reels suggest.

[Xiao Yao You]

I'd rather have you not post.

A huge A fan I take it?:confusedshrug:

[spiegel]

Rather have Westbrook. The same logic that people use when saying "if Iverson played with Kevin Durant the Thunder would..." is the same reason everyone thought Iverson and Carmelo Anthony would be a great pairing.

Allen Iverson never was and never will be as good as your memories and highlight reels suggest.
Yep the same AI who took a cast of scrubs all the way to the finals?. McKie, Gorge Hill and Eric Snow. Lets not forget he had the great Matt Geiger to.

[Jailblazers7]

Watching some of AI's old Georgetown tapes makes me wish his career had gone a little differently. Whenever he got to the NBA, he was really unleashed which led to his prolific scoring but also a lack of discipline. He was really a great defender at Georgetown and could have been possibly the GOAT PG if he had developed in a more structured, disciplined environment upon entering the league imo.

Still I'd take him over Westbrook but who knows if that is still the case in 2-3 years when Westbrook hits his prime.

[brain drain]

If you look at their PER numbers, they're actually pretty similar at the same age:




AGE AI RW AI (Playoffs) RW (Playoffs)
21 18.4 17.8 -- 24.3
22 20.4 23.6 -- 19.6
23 22.2 22.9 22.6 22.6
24 20.0 22.2 16.6 ??


Overall, Westbrook's numbers are a little better. Iverson's absolute best (25.9 reg. season PER in 2005/06 and 24.3 playoffs PER in 2001/02) are definitely not out of reach for Westbrook.

Westbrook he also has proven that he can coexist relatively well with another superstar and contribute to a top team. Plus he's much lower maintenance.

So, overall, Westbrook's probably a little better.Of course he'll never have anything close to the cultural impact that AI had.

[brain drain]

Yep the same AI who took a cast of scrubs all the way to the finals?. McKie, Gorge Hill and Eric Snow. Lets not forget he had the great Matt Geiger to.
First, that team was elite defensively, and that was not AI's doing. Second, they were doing it at a time when the Leastern Conference was at its absolute worst.

As far as achievements go, it was probably comparable to making the second round in the west in the same year.

[Dragonyeuw]

Easily Iverson. The way his career ended has blinded alot of people to just how dominant he was, especially at his size, in the early 2000's.

[brain drain]

Easily Iverson. The way his career ended has blinded alot of people to just how dominant he was, especially at his size, in the early 2000's.
Nah, it's the other way round. Iverson's high raw scoring numbers blinded a lot of people to just how inefficient he was, irregardless of his size and especially in the early 2000s

The guy had only one season with a TS% above 53% in his first 8 seasons, but 3 seasons below 50% TS. That's epic (Westbrook's bad, too, but at least he's already had two seasons above 53%). Later, AI's efficiency improved a little.

As a comparison, even ChuckBe the triggerhappy NEVER hat a TS% below 54% in his first 15 seasons.

[Nevaeh]

Nah, it's the other way round. Iverson's high raw scoring numbers blinded a lot of people to just how inefficient he was, irregardless of his size and especially in the early 2000s

The guy had only one season with a TS% above 53% in his first 8 seasons, but 3 seasons below 50% TS. That's epic (Westbrook's bad, too, but at least he's already had two seasons above 53%). Later, AI's efficiency improved a little.

As a comparison, even ChuckBe the triggerhappy NEVER hat a TS% below 54% in his first 15 seasons.

In Iverson's defense, he never had the Offensive Potency of a Shaq or Durant on his team to take defensive pressure off of him either. Credit definitely goes to Larry Brown also, for how he kept things under control back then, with AI as his main weapon.

[jrong]

Well, they both shoot about 40%. But, Iverson proved over the course of his career he was a great, if overrated, player. Westbrook has only established the overrated part.

[Legends66NBA7]

Can't make a comparison when Westbrook isn't even his prime right now. Maybe he's entering, but it's not comparable to Iverson's prime.

Also, people bringing up the stats and advanced metrics... Their situations aren't even comparable either. Iverson did not have the overall help Westbrook currently has. Iverson was the number 1 option for the Sixers for a long time with the help interchanging around him, while Westbrook has to defer to Durant.

Got to give OKC management props for settling a good young core in OKC, something those Sixers teams had problems doing after their Finals run. Westbrook might be more comparable to Stephon Marbury, Steve Francis, Derrick Rose, etc...

[brain drain]

In Iverson's defense, he never had the Offensive Potency of a Shaq or Durant on his team to take defensive pressure off of him either. Credit definitely goes to Larry Brown also, for how he kept things under control back then, with AI as his main weapon.

Sure, but a lot of people mainly remember the 30+ ppg and say "all time great scorer" and forget the abysmal typical 51 TS% that came along with it.

Apart from that, there have been other scorers without superstar help that were perfectly capable of getting TS% around 58% over their careers. Just sayin.

[blablabla]

Sure, but a lot of people mainly remember the 30+ ppg and say "all time great scorer" and forget the abysmal typical 51 TS% that came along with it.

Apart from that, there have been other scorers without superstar help that were perfectly capable of getting TS% around 58% over their careers. Just sayin.
you fail to mention that ai had a FG%.45 after the rule changes in 05 and a FG%.46 in denver with melo

[brain drain]

you fail to mention that ai had a FG%.45 after the rule changes in 05 and a FG%.46 in denver with melo

Yeah, without that, he'd be even worse.

Still, apart from that really very good 2007/2008 season, he still wasn't anywhere close to efficient.

[Nevaeh]

Sure, but a lot of people mainly remember the 30+ ppg and say "all time great scorer" and forget the abysmal typical 51 TS% that came along with it.

Apart from that, there have been other scorers without superstar help that were perfectly capable of getting TS% around 58% over their careers. Just sayin.

Oh, I hear you. And I'm not trying to make excuses for AI either.He was definitely "head strong" (just like WB), where he was determined to try things his way first. But being realistic, he was simply too small to try to climb the mountains that his mind had convinced him that he could.

I would sometimes imagine him as a Center trapped in a PG's body, with the way he approached the game.

:oldlol:

But yeah, history is what it is for him. It did feel good to see him spook the sh!t out of the "undefeated" Playoff Lakers for a hot second though. He's in the history books, just for that game alone.

:cheers:

[Dragonyeuw]

Nah, it's the other way round. Iverson's high raw scoring numbers blinded a lot of people to just how inefficient he was, irregardless of his size and especially in the early 2000s

The guy had only one season with a TS% above 53% in his first 8 seasons, but 3 seasons below 50% TS. That's epic (Westbrook's bad, too, but at least he's already had two seasons above 53%). Later, AI's efficiency improved a little.



Inefficient perhaps, but let's not ignore that Westbrook has never played in a situation where he was the focal point of team defenses night in, night out. How many players under 6 feet in the history of pro Basketball have been able to carry teams single-handedly on their backs for the bulk of their careers? You're talking a guy at 5'11 and 150 soaking wet having to get his shot off against far taller defenders both on the perimeter and in the paint. I can, to some degree, forgive the lower percentages on that account. It's not as though he was big enough like Jordan or Kobe to get higher percentage points out of the post. His scoring was a combination of fearless drives to the paint and dancing out on the perimeter trying to create room for his jumper over guys much bigger than him. His percentages, like most perimeter players, went up after 2005 in accordance with the new perimeter rules.

Point is, having watched Iverson's entire career and from what I've seen of Westbrook, it's not even a comparison to compare current WB and prime Iverson. The latter was the more dynamic force, without question. What Westbrook does in the coming seasons remains to be seen, as far as his peak. And since Westbrook is sharing the offensive burden with a guy putting up 25-30 every night, we don't know what WB is capable of if he was placed in the same role Iverson had in Philly.

[Xiao Yao You]

I can, to some degree, forgive the lower percentages on that account.

Maybe if he wasn't doing it against triple teams with teammates standing around wide open or throwing up yet another 3 when he wasn't a great long distance shooter.

[Dragonyeuw]

Maybe if he wasn't doing it against triple teams with teammates standing around wide open or throwing up yet another 3 when he wasn't a great long distance shooter.

And who was there to take the burden off him? Eric Snow? Aaron Mckie? Tyrone Hill? George Lynch? Truly great offensive options there. It's the same reason the 2006 Lakers were only competitive because Kobe had offensive carte blanche. In both cases neither guy had any real offensive help and only kept their teams competitive by scoring as much as possible themselves.

And, he's actually a better 'shooter' than he's given credit for. People look at stats in a bubble without context sometimes.

[brain drain]

Inefficient perhaps, but let's not ignore that Westbrook has never played in a situation where he was the focal point of team defenses night in, night out. How many players under 6 feet in the history of pro Basketball have been able to carry teams single-handedly on their backs for the bulk of their careers? You're talking a guy at 5'11 and 150 soaking wet having to get his shot off against far taller defenders both on the perimeter and in the paint. I can, to some degree, forgive the lower percentages on that account. It's not as though he was big enough like Jordan or Kobe to get higher percentage points out of the post. His scoring was a combination of fearless drives to the paint and dancing out on the perimeter trying to create room for his jumper over guys much bigger than him. His percentages, like most perimeter players, went up after 2005 in accordance with the new perimeter rules.

Point is, having watched Iverson's entire career and from what I've seen of Westbrook, it's not even a comparison to compare current WB and prime Iverson. The latter was the more dynamic force, without question. What Westbrook does in the coming seasons remains to be seen, as far as his peak. And since Westbrook is sharing the offensive burden with a guy putting up 25-30 every night, we don't know what WB is capable of if he was placed in the same role Iverson had in Philly.

Of course Iverson was amazing to watch. Him and Carter were the two most interesting players around 2000. And I absolutely agree that Westbrook will never attract that kind of interest and awe that Iverson did.

But as far as who's the better player is concerned, I think they are very close. Yes, you can argue that AI would've been a little better / a little more efficient had he been placed on a team like OKC.
However here's a few points to think about:

Later in his career, AI DID team up with a superstar in Melo, and while his TS% increased a few points (to around 55-56% versus his last two years in PHI where he was at 53%-54%), his usage dropped and his PER was at 18.4 and 20.9 - nothing spectacular and markedly worse than the two years before in PHI. There's no way you can take the Denver stint to prove that AI would've been able to seperate himelf statistically form Westbrook haf he played with another superstar for a longer time.
Looking at Harden, who went the other way from super team member to main star with erratic help shows that he's basically still who he's always been : a very efficient scorer. Yes, his percentages dropped a little versus last year's lofty (and imo anyway unsustainable) 66% TS%, but it's still very much in the corridor of his previous years (55%, 58.9%, 66%, noew 60.1%). His usage rate and PER went up (PER 21-> 23).
As another example, take a look at Kobe. First he had Shaq, then there was the time without Shaq & Phil, then Gasol came and the Lakers had their super team. His TS%? Almost always hovered between 54% and 58%, it's not possible to tell who he played with by looking at his efficiency.
Comparing AI's and Wesbrooks PER stats at the same age, Westbrook does have an advantage there, so even if you give AI a bonus for not playing on a super team, there's nothing that suggests that AI would've been dramatically better than he was in Philly. So, they'd probably still be in a similar range.
For a lot of his career, AI had the advantage of playing in a much worse eastern conf and playing more games against really bad teams than Westbrook gets to play. Which helps a lot.
In addition to this, what made AI really stand out was his extremely high scoring. Most probably, he'd have scored 5 - 10 ppg less on a team like OKC - and never would've become the legend that he is.

[miles berg]

Iverson all day everyday.

[Rasheed1]

Allen Iverson is first ballot HOF

I dont think this is even a logical convo... Only people who didnt see AI play would even try to argue it.

[Dragonyeuw]

Later in his career, AI DID team up with a superstar in Melo, and while his TS% increased a few points (to around 55-56% versus his last two years in PHI where he was at 53%-54%), his usage dropped and his PER was at 18.4 and 20.9 - nothing spectacular and markedly worse than the two years before in PHI. There's no way you can take the Denver stint to prove that AI would've been able to seperate himelf statistically form Westbrook haf he played with another superstar for a longer time.
Iverson was also 32-33 and exiting his prime at this stage. Prime Iverson never played with anyone close to as good as Melo at any stage of his career. What he showed in Denver isn't necessarily indicative of what a Prime Iverson would have done playing alongside Melo.


Looking at Harden, who went the other way from super team member to main star with erratic help shows that he's basically still who he's always been : a very efficient scorer. Yes, his percentages dropped a little versus last year's lofty (and imo anyway unsustainable) 66% TS%, but it's still very much in the corridor of his previous years (55%, 58.9%, 66%, noew 60.1%). His usage rate and PER went up (PER 21-> 23).
As another example, take a look at Kobe. First he had Shaq, then there was the time without Shaq & Phil, then Gasol came and the Lakers had their super team. His TS%? Almost always hovered between 54% and 58%, it's not possible to tell who he played with by looking at his efficiency.
Fair point but again, guys like Harden and especially Kobe are probably going to have an easier time scoring the ball at their size and strength than Iverson will. A guy like Kobe at 6'7 is going to be able to go inside or in the post and have higher percentage shots than a 5"11 'midget' like Iverson. A.I was literally David playing Goliath when he went into the lane. Yes he did his share of chucking and ill-advised shots, but I still believe his diminutive size having to score against bigger opponents impacted his shooting percentages as well as the 'ill-advised' shots did.


Comparing AI's and Wesbrooks PER stats at the same age, Westbrook does have an advantage there, so even if you give AI a bonus for not playing on a super team, there's nothing that suggests that AI would've been dramatically better than he was in Philly. So, they'd probably still be in a similar range.
God I hate PER arguments( no offense intended).


For a lot of his career, AI had the advantage of playing in a much worse eastern conf and playing more games against really bad teams than Westbrook gets to play. Which helps a lot.
Playing in a bad conference, with a 'bad' team to boot. It evens out, at the end of the day you can only play who is in front of you.


In addition to this, what made AI really stand out was his extremely high scoring. Most probably, he'd have scored 5 - 10 ppg less on a team like OKC - and never would've become the legend that he is.
Impossible to say. Didn't Westbrook score like 24 last year? You don't think prime Iverson circa 2001 was capable of exceeding that total? I do.

[/list]

reply in bold. Honestly I can see you're big on stats so what I'm about to say won't jell with you, the eye test tells me Iverson was better than what Westbrook has shown thus far. The emphasis is on THUS FAR, because Westbrook hasn't hit his prime yet.

[Xiao Yao You]

Allen Iverson is first ballot HOF

I dont think this is even a logical convo... Only people who didnt see AI play would even try to argue it.

If I hadn't seen him play I might choose him.

[Rasheed1]

If I hadn't seen him play I might choose him.


you need glasses... AI was better than Westbrook when was a rookie of the year

[Bcogswell]

Westbrook is a great player, but without a doubt in my mind I'd take Iverson over him.

[Eldrunko247]

AI easy there's no comparison. Take away Durant and it's not even close.

[Xiao Yao You]

you need glasses... AI was better than Westbrook when was a rookie of the year

More talented maybe. I would have never wanted him on my team. There's a reason he is out of the league now. Westbrook is far from ideal either but if I have to choose one it's an easy choice as far as I'm concerned.

[Mach_3]

If AI's prime coincided with this extremely perimeter friendly era he'd have dudes on here claiming he was a 5'11 god :roll:

[Money 23]

Iverson on heart, competitiveness and will power alone. Let alone all the other reasons he was better.

[Heavincent]

Iverson on heart, competitiveness and will power alone

Doesn't Westbrook have all of that too? I mean, he's never missed a game in his career and you can never say he's not going 100%. In fact, the knock on him is that he's trying to do too much a lot of the time.

I agree that Iverson was better, but Westbrook's heart and passion might be his most admirable trait as a player.

[Hotlantadude81]

AI

He gets too much bad rep around here. AI in his prime is a warrior that scores the ball at will and carried a bunch of scrubs to the finals.

The only reason he made the finals is cause the east sucked.

[mikek85]

Easily Iverson. Why are we having a debate? :biggums:

[Rasheed1]

More talented maybe. I would have never wanted him on my team. There's a reason he is out of the league now.


He's just flat out BETTER.. More talented, more tenacious, all that.

Like I said, get back at me when Westbrook wins an MVP.. :confusedshrug:



Westbrook is far from ideal either but if I have to choose one it's an easy choice as far as I'm concerned.

Westbrook is not on AIs level...period...

But like they say, there is always one knucklehead who will say something dumb just for the sake of it... I guess you are that person in this instance.

:cheers: here's to you

[miles berg]

Like zimsaid two pages earlier, there is no comparison. Iverson was better than Westbrook in every aspect.

[Whoah10115]

AI is flat out the better player no questions asked. If u wanna break it down by who is the better all around player, then sure Westbrook could have a shot at that maybe. But better all around isn't the better player in ALL cases. Larry Brown did a genius move and put AI at SG. Which means u judge AI by SG standards in many ways. In terms of scoring and passing as a package, AI is one of the top 3-4 SG's ever in my book.

AI as a PG would have been perceived in a similar fashion to Westbrook, Parker, and Rose, but a better version of that style of PG. Westbrook is a great player too and is still getting used to the nuances of being a PG. But ultimately, most of the greatest PG's of all time are epic floor generals who drop the dimes and lead first. And then score and be an alpha dog when its time. Westbrook doesn't quite have that balance yet, even though I would take him over many pass first PG's.



AI is also less a PG than all of those guys, including Westbrook. Iverson was a hybrid combo guard/ball-dominant 2guard...an original, I will say...but he was most certainly not a PG. He didn't have floor general ability...he was dirty and tough enough to make it work when he did play PG.


I get on him a lot but he was a great player. And Westbrook is nowhere near Iverson right now. Tho I don't know that Iverson would be good on the Thunder, unless he was playing SG.


I do think it's a shame that Iverson reduced himself to a passing lanes defender..he had elite on-ball ability and got away from it.

[Whoah10115]

Watching some of AI's old Georgetown tapes makes me wish his career had gone a little differently. Whenever he got to the NBA, he was really unleashed which led to his prolific scoring but also a lack of discipline. He was really a great defender at Georgetown and could have been possibly the GOAT PG if he had developed in a more structured, disciplined environment upon entering the league imo.

Still I'd take him over Westbrook but who knows if that is still the case in 2-3 years when Westbrook hits his prime.



I don't think AI was ever gonna do it as a PG. He was a PG in college but he was clearly a SG. That's what he should have played..but I remember how good a defender he was...that was the most I ever watched college ball and I was a big fan of his.


This is Westbrook's 5th season...in AI's 5th season, he was the MVP..that ain't happening with Westbrook. He's not as good. But I do think they were closer in their first couple years. And whoever said they would take rookie AI over current Westbrook is being stupid.

[dunksby]

Bunch of nostalgic tards in this thread. WB has had better help offensively but you can't seriously compare Thunder's defense and coaching to those PHI teams. WB is putting up 22PPG on a team that has the 3 time consecutive NBA scoring champion along with an elite scorer in Martin. Russell has made the finals going through elite teams, AI played in a depleted East which was laughably weak in a weak era.
Not saying Westbrook is better, it's just that the comparison is stupid but those saying AI by a mile and shit like that are even more stupid.

[Mach_3]

Bunch of nostalgic tards in this thread. WB has had better help offensively but you can't seriously compare Thunder's defense and coaching to those PHI teams. WB is putting up 22PPG on a team that has the 3 time consecutive NBA scoring champion along with an elite scorer in Martin. Russell has made the finals going through elite teams, AI played in a depleted East which was laughably weak in a weak era.
Not saying Westbrook is better, it's just that the comparison is stupid but those saying AI by a mile and shit like that are even more stupid.

So? you do realize he's getting his 20 shots a game regardless of who's on his team right? :lol

[andgar923]

So? you do realize he's getting his 20 shots a game regardless of who's on his team right? :lol

He also fails to realize that having them on his team draws the defense away from him also. Westbrook plays one on one for the most part as the defense concentrates on Durant for the vast majority of the time, not vice versa. AI was always the center of attention for the defense, he was the one constantly getting double and triple teamed.

Replace them and a Westbrook led Sixers are amongst the worst teams in their conference, not close to making playoffs.

AI in today's Thunder are a lock for the Finals and possibly win a few.

[Mach_3]

He also fails to realize that having them on his team draws the defense away from him also. Westbrook plays one on one for the most part as the defense concentrates on Durant for the vast majority of the time, not vice versa. AI was always the center of attention for the defense, he was the one constantly getting double and triple teamed.

Replace them and a Westbrook led Sixers are amongst the worst teams in their conference, not close to making playoffs.

AI in today's Thunder are a lock for the Finals and possibly win a few.

Agreed wholeheartedly. I never took this topic seriously though as anyone who watched enough of AI knows that he's on a different planet then Russell Westbrook

[eliteballer]

Westbrook is a poor mans AI, and that's not an insult.

[Cladyclad]

I guess we all have finally hit that age when the players we grew up on are better than anyone thats new in the league.

Iverson right now, but if Russ keeps at this pace and develops like i think he is. Russ will surpass Iverson.

[lefthook00]

Iverson has the second highest playoff ppg of ALL-TIME!!!!

/thread

[dunksby]

So? you do realize he's getting his 20 shots a game regardless of who's on his team right? :lol
It means Westbrook can thrive with elite players and scorers beside him, something AI could never do. AI is the kinda player who wants everybody at his service to be able to do his thing. It's funny you didn't have anything to counter the rest of my arguments and tried to grasp on some weak straw :lol

[Mach_3]

It means Westbrook can thrive with elite players and scorers beside him, something AI could never do. AI is the kinda player who wants everybody at his service to be able to do his thing. It's funny you didn't have anything to counter the rest of my arguments and tried to grasp on some weak straw :lol


This argument is so laughably flawed :roll:

When did AI have ANYBODY on the level of even James Harden as a scorer? Besides what Carmelo Anthony as a 32 year old? And even then he sh1t's all over Westbrook :roll:

You clearly didn't watch AI during his prime if you believe AI couldn't play next to another scorer much less think RUSSELL mothereffing WESTBROOK can thrive better next to elite talent, GTFO with that BS


And i don't even hate Westbrook, but i can't count how many times i've seen Durant have his man pinned on the block and Westbrook stares at him like he doesn't know how to throw a ****ing post pass only to try and drive through 12 defenders

[dunksby]

This argument is so laughably flawed :roll:

When did AI have ANYBODY on the level of even James Harden as a scorer? Besides what Carmelo Anthony as a 32 year old? And even then he sh1t's all over Westbrook :roll:

You clearly didn't watch AI during his prime if you believe AI couldn't play next to another scorer much less think RUSSELL mothereffing WESTBROOK can thrive better next to elite talent, GTFO with that BS
You don't even make sense :facepalm

[Mach_3]

You don't even make sense :facepalm

Lol your done :lol

Btw i've seen your other arguments on here plenty of times, destroying them isn't worth the effort. you think you brought some shocking revelation about these two players?

[SyRyanYang]

He also fails to realize that having them on his team draws the defense away from him also. Westbrook plays one on one for the most part as the defense concentrates on Durant for the vast majority of the time, not vice versa. AI was always the center of attention for the defense, he was the one constantly getting double and triple teamed.

Replace them and a Westbrook led Sixers are amongst the worst teams in their conference, not close to making playoffs.

AI in today's Thunder are a lock for the Finals and possibly win a few.
This is beyond stupid. Watching some games may cure your stupidity.
Durant plays great off the ball, how do you double team someone without the ball?
Not vice versa? Really?:facepalm

[SyRyanYang]

I guess we all have finally hit that age when the players we grew up on are better than anyone thats new in the league.

Iverson right now, but if Russ keeps at this pace and develops like i think he is. Russ will surpass Iverson.
Good point.

[spacebump]

AI, if you think otherwise you didn't watch him play enough. If prime AI had been on the Thunder the previous two seasons, they would be going for a threepeat this season.

[dunksby]

Lol your done :lol

Btw i've seen your other arguments on here plenty of times, destroying them isn't worth the effort. you think you brought some shocking revelation about these two players?
You don't get it do you? Comparing these two is idiotic cause they have been in totally different situations and Russell has not even reached his prime let alone be done in his career, where AI is now. But you don't get it cause you are just a nostalgic tard with a fuzzy memory and a narrow vision who can't comprehend any other argument different than yours.

[Mach_3]

Good point.


I won't ever say another player can't become better than a past one because for all i know Westbrook can become Jordan by the end of the season but i don't see how anyone who's watched both play and understood the circumstances behind each one's situation say with a straight face that Westbrook is a better player/talent then Iverson. to me this is like the people i see arguing between Dwight Howard and Alonzo Mourning. (except imo there's a bigger gap between AI and Westbrook)

[Mach_3]

You don't get it do you? Comparing these two is idiotic cause they have been in totally different situations and Russell has not even reached his prime let alone be done in his career, where AI is now. But you don't get it cause you are just a nostalgic tard with a fuzzy memory and a narrow vision who can't comprehend any other argument different than yours.

awwww visibly upset are we? :roll:

Unlike you (most likely) I've watched the careers of both of these players. I understand the situation between both clearly but you obviously don't. You proved as much when you said AI cant play next to elite talent like Westbrook can, even though i hear at least 20 times a day from espn pundits and fans alike that Westbrook shoots to damn much and doesn't let Durant do his thing.

And this aint comparing Jerry West to Kobe Bryant, these two played in a close enough time frame when any unbiased person can compare the two

[SyRyanYang]

I won't ever say another player can't become better than a past one because for all i know Westbrook can become Jordan by the end of the season but i don't see how anyone who's watched both play and understood the circumstances behind each one's situation say with a straight face that Westbrook is a better player/talent then Iverson. to me this is like the people i see arguing between Dwight Howard and Alonzo Mourning. (except imo there's a bigger gap between AI and Westbrook)
I don't see many people taking WB over AI:confusedshrug:
What they are arguing is basically how big the gap is

[Mach_3]

I don't see many people taking WB over AI:confusedshrug:
What they are arguing is basically how big the gap is

I mean this is definitely not the first time i've seen this topic but yeah i meant just in general.:confusedshrug:

[dunksby]

awwww visibly upset are we? :roll:

Unlike you (most likely) I've watched the careers of both of these players. I understand the situation between both clearly but you obviously don't. You proved as much when you said AI cant play next to elite talent like Westbrook can, even though i hear at least 20 times a day from espn pundits and fans alike that Westbrook shoots to damn much and doesn't let Durant do his thing.

And this aint comparing Jerry West to Kobe Bryant, these two played in a close enough time frame when any unbiased person can compare the two
You obviously don't watch OKC, Westbrook is a bonehead but his fire and heart complements Durant's cold blooded efficiency. My favorite player is Durant but it does not mean I can't see how Westbrook's character benefits KD.
Again talk to me when Westbrook is playing in China, Turkey or whatever oblivion morons like AI end up in then we can compare their careers. :roll:
PS: We talking about practice here?

[Mach_3]

You obviously don't watch OKC, Westbrook is a bonehead but his fire and heart complements Durant's cold blooded efficiency. My favorite player is Durant but it does not mean I can't see how Westbrook's character benefits KD.
Again talk to me when Westbrook is playing in China, Turkey or whatever oblivion morons like AI end up in then we can compare their careers. :roll:
PS: We talking about practice here?


So.... you resort to using Allen Iverson's career when he was already way out of his prime? Smells like the act of a desperate man without an argument to me.

I never said they don't compliment each other because honestly i don't think Durant is an alpha male (or at least enough of one) because i rarely ever seem him command the respect of his team, it seems far to often he's content with just getting the ball whenever he can get it. I wish he'd just grab Westbrook by the collar and tell him "when i call for the ball, you GIVE me the ****ing ball, period."

I wouldn't call Westbrook a bonehead because i know he's thinking all those plays that are actually boneheaded plays to us is just a missed shot he could have easily made to him. Most great players think this way, But if he's gonna play PG if i was Scott Brooks i'd lock him in a room with John Stockton fundamental highlights blaring from every wall, ceiling and floor till he realizes that he can be a much more impactful player if he understood the basics of running an offense better.

[SyRyanYang]

So.... you resort to using Allen Iverson's career when he was already way out of his prime? Smells like the act of a desperate man without an argument to me.

I never said they don't compliment each other because honestly i don't think Durant is an alpha male (or at least enough of one) because i rarely ever seem him command the respect of his team, it seems far to often he's content with just getting the ball whenever he can get it. I wish he'd just grab Westbrook by the collar and tell him "when i call for the ball, you GIVE me the ****ing ball, period."

I wouldn't call Westbrook a bonehead because i know he's thinking all those plays that are actually boneheaded plays to us is just a missed shot he could have easily made to him. Most great players think this way, But if he's gonna play PG if i was Scott Brooks i'd lock him in a room with John Stockton fundamental highlights blaring from every wall, ceiling and floor till he realizes that he can be a much more impactful player if he understood the basics of running an offense better.
If he wants the ball so bad he can bring it up the court himself. Then Russell doesn't have to stand and watch Durant taking 15 sec to box out his defender

[Lebowsky]

May as well compare Calderon to Stockton.

Speed - Iverson
Vertical - Westbrook
Handles - Iverson
Playmaking - Iverson
Shot - Iverson
Clutch - Iverson
D - Iverson


:roll: :roll: