As of right now, how is LeBron not the MVP?

[Mr. Incredible]

He's dropping 26, 8 & 7 on 55% shooting & 43% from 3. He's the only one that gives a damn on the Heat & shows up every night. How is Melo even considered with less RPG and significantly less APG (3.1)... ???

[PistolPete44]

coz he wasn't hyped up like kobe
the whole world is obsessed with kobe,melo,pierce
these kind of ball hogs

[maybeshewill13]

coz he wasn't hyped up like kobe
the whole world is obsessed with kobe,melo,pierce
these kind of ball hogs
:biggums:

[SpecialQue]

Voters are probably getting sick of giving it to him.

[Kurosawa0]

Voters are probably getting sick of giving it to him.

Honestly, this is it. LeBron is in any conversation, but it's Melo and Durant that have generated the excitement. It's how Charles Barkley and Karl Malone got MVPs while playing at the same time as Michael Jordan. Jordan was always the MVP, just like LeBron now, but he didn't always win the award.

[tmacattack33]

He obviously is, and he has been ever since 2009 (with a gap year in his first year in Miami when he hadn't fully taken over the team and completely moved Wade to the Robin role yet), and he will continue to be as long as he keeps up his current level of play.

So the argument becomes who is the MVP besides him, and that's why everone's talking about KD and Melo.

Melo is a great story. ESPN and CBS ranked him as the 17th and 20th best player or something like that over the summer. And now he comes out and has his best year ever, and of course he's in New York so it's a huge story.

[raprap]

Voters are probably getting sick of giving it to him.
This, but lets see. The media is back at Lebrons dick.

[Jacks3]

Because Durant is having a historically good year and his team has the better record? :confusedshrug:

[Noyze]

Voters are probably getting sick of giving it to him.


Honestly, this is it. LeBron is in any conversation, but it's Melo and Durant that have generated the excitement. It's how Charles Barkley and Karl Malone got MVPs while playing at the same time as Michael Jordan. Jordan was always the MVP, just like LeBron now, but he didn't always win the award.
Both of these, well said. Voter fatigue is gonna happen around players as dominant as Bron. I always felt like as long as someone plays as good as LeBron or slightly less then voters will give it to them.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Statistical models based on prior voting patterns has Durant as the top choice as of right now

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi

:confusedshrug:

[SpecialQue]

For what it's worth, if the Clippers somehow maintain their spot as the best team in the league, it'd be nice to see CP3 finally get it. Plus I'd LOVE to see the breakdown that Demons goes through if this happens.

[joeysms55]

Because Durant is having a historically good year and his team has the better record? :confusedshrug:


:facepalm

[red1]

I will laugh if derrick rose comes back from injury and steals the mvp from lebron kd melo and cp3

[joeysms55]

I will laugh if derrick rose comes back from injury and steals the mvp from lebron kd melo and cp3

He will need a Adrian Peterson kind of a season

[Pushxx]

Statistical models based on prior voting patterns has Durant as the top choice as of right now

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.cgi

:confusedshrug:

David Lee's got it, son.

[LikeABosh]

Voters are gonna get sick of getting it to him and alot of people will give their vote to someone knew, like Melo, or CP3 and Durant.

[Money 23]

Voters are gonna get sick of getting it to him
Same way they did Big Mike.

MJ should've been LEGIT MVP from like '89 - '98

[Legends66NBA7]

Same way they did Big Mike.

MJ should've been LEGIT MVP from like '89 - '98

I'm assuming your saying 89-98 if he didn't retire the first time, correct ?

[Money 23]

I'm assuming your saying 89-98 if he didn't retire the first time, correct ?
No, I mean he was hands down the best player in the league, EASILY in '89, '90, '91, '92, '93, '96, '97, '98

He should've been MVP EVERY single one of those years. No excuses.

There was interesting little voter derailments occasionally some seasons, but the truth was there.

[Mr. Incredible]

Wow. The voters shouldn't have a vote if the notion is true that they have
'voter's fatigue'...it's pretty obvious LeBron is the MVP

[AngelEyes]

I will laugh if derrick rose comes back from injury and steals the mvp from lebron kd melo and cp3

So they're going to give him the MVP even if he only plays a quarter of the season? :confusedshrug:

[LongLiveTheKing]

Thunder have a better record and Durant is putting up insane numbers also.

[All Net]

Depends on record

If Thunder get the best record I reckon Durant wins it this year.

[elementally morale]

Depends on record
If Thunder get the best record I reckon Durant wins it this year.

Depends on best story as it is a media-driven award. The Thunder having the best record probably coincides with the best story though. But if for example the Lakers somehow won 55+ games (very unlikely) and Kobe kept up his scoring and efficiency, he would run away with the award despite the Lakers not getting the best record.

[mikek85]

Depends on best story as it is a media-driven award. The Thunder having the best record probably coincides with the best story though. But if for example the Lakers somehow won 55+ games (very unlikely) and Kobe kept up his scoring and efficiency, he would run away with the award despite the Lakers not getting the best record.

Kobe would never get it. Too inefficient period.

Book it.

[elementally morale]

Kobe would never get it. Too inefficient period.

Book it.

He actually is more efficient up to this point than he was the year he got it. And how efficient was Derrick Rose? I'm not saying Kobe should or shouldn't get it, I'm arguing that the player with the best story wins the award.

Malone and Barkley somehow won. Were they really better than Jordan? Also, why didn't Jordan win it in '89? Wasn't he more deserving than Magic? It is about the story.

[All Net]

Depends on best story as it is a media-driven award. The Thunder having the best record probably coincides with the best story though. But if for example the Lakers somehow won 55+ games (very unlikely) and Kobe kept up his scoring and efficiency, he would run away with the award despite the Lakers not getting the best record.


Maybe so, if clippers keep up their current pace it will be hard not to give it to Paul as well. I get the feeling Miami won't have the best record with the way they seem to be playing..not alot of focus.

[SacJB Shady]

David Lee only guy 20-10.

[dunksby]

LMAO @ LeBronytes shamelessly putting him on MJ's level :roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

I understand the Durant love. Its Melo that has absolutely no business at getting any hype over LeBron.

[Blue&Orange]

He's dropping 26, 8 & 7 on 55% shooting & 43% from 3. He's the only one that gives a damn on the Heat & shows up every night. How is Melo even considered with less RPG and significantly less APG (3.1)... ???
Same record, Melo playing with the bench, Lebron playing with the "is going to be easy" team?

Lebron is the biggest stat whore in the history of the NBA, anyone that watches Heat games with open eyes, realizes that when he is being passive he is looking to pump stats on a loaded team, and when the game isn't going well, and he is more aggressive his efficiency drops like hell.

[b1imtf]

Same record, Melo playing with the bench, Lebron playing with the "is going to be easy" team?

Lebron is the biggest stat whore in the history of the NBA, anyone that watches Heat games with open eyes, realizes that when he is being passive he is looking to pump stats on a loaded team, and when the game isn't going well, and he is more aggressive his efficiency drops like hell.
Mad

[Nash]

But wasn't he #1 in MVP race?

[Nash]

Same record, Melo playing with the bench, Lebron playing with the "is going to be easy" team?

Lebron is the biggest stat whore in the history of the NBA, anyone that watches Heat games with open eyes, realizes that when he is being passive he is looking to pump stats on a loaded team, and when the game isn't going well, and he is more aggressive his efficiency drops like hell.
If being a stat whore makes you the best player in the world then everyone should do it if its that easy.

[pauk]

Because Durant is having a historically good year and his team has the better record? :confusedshrug:

What the players have to work with around them (on both ends) is always strongly considered... Durant has a more deeper team and even tho his stats are awesome, they aint better than Lebron either...

MVP aint the best player, it aint the guy who had the best performances... but its the guy who basically does the most with the least (have to have one of the top 4-5 best records in the NBA tho)...

[I<3NBA]

As of right now, how is LeBron not the MVP?
because the season's not over :confusedshrug:

[Thechosen1]

because believe it or not, lebron isnt the only talented player in the nba

[Jax]

Same record, Melo playing with the bench, Lebron playing with the "is going to be easy" team?

Lebron is the biggest stat whore in the history of the NBA, anyone that watches Heat games with open eyes, realizes that when he is being passive he is looking to pump stats on a loaded team, and when the game isn't going well, and he is more aggressive his efficiency drops like hell.
If there's a thing Lebron isn't(on Cavs days maybe) is a stat whore, he could have like 36 points a night, but keeps shooting dumbass jumpers, doesn't go for offensive rebounds, shows zero effort to drive to the basket when the team is in front.
When he's agressive he scores or gets the foul, one or the other. Kinda infuriating actually, why doesn't he do that all the time? :biggums:

[DaSeba5]

I want LeBron to get it, but voters may be sick of voting for LeBron. There's other players who also deserve it. I wouldn't be upset if someone else got it.

[lakerspng]

because he's not playing better than he ever has before and others are having seasons just as strong. Durant, Melo, Kobe are all having phenomenal seasons as well. Durant has the inside track at the moment.

[LikeABosh]

Durant is the only one who is close right now. Melo has absolutely no argument over Lebron

[LikeABosh]

because he's not playing better than he ever has before and others are having seasons just as strong. Durant, Melo, Kobe are all having phenomenal seasons as well. Durant has the inside track at the moment.
Right now, the Lakers are struggling to be .500, so take Kobe out. Lebron nearly quadruples Melo is assists, gets over 2 more rebounds per game, shoots far better %, more steals, blocks, higher efficiency, it's not close

[lakerspng]

Right now, the Lakers are struggling to be .500, so take Kobe out. Lebron nearly quadruples Melo is assists, gets over 2 more rebounds per game, shoots far better %, more steals, blocks, higher efficiency, it's not close

Lakers will right their ship, but yes, that's why Kobe's not at the top of the list, because individually he's having an MVP caliber season.

Melo is in the media's favorite market and it's been a long time since the Knicks could claim relevance. He's in the mix for that reason alone.... and he is having a great season, a comeback season for him in some ways. It's a good story for the drama hungry media.

Durant's having an amazing season, he's even better than he was last year and his team is soaring. He's definitely the front runner right now.

LeBron is as good as ever, but that's not a sexy story for voters. He's going to have to be better than ever somehow, for him to win a 4th straight and he has not separated himself yet enough.

[Mrofir]

Nash for MVP

[madmax]

Because he is?:confusedshrug:
Dude is coasting and only putting some effort sporadically so far in this season, and yet his stats still blow others' out of the water...he's THAT much better than everybody else:cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Thunder: 24-6
Heat: 21-8

[Fudge]

because believe it or not, lebron isnt the only talented player in the nba
This. :oldlol:

Lol @ LeBron Stan's thinking the whole world revolves around LeBron.

[LikeABosh]

This. :oldlol:

Lol @ LeBron Stan's thinking the whole world revolves around LeBron.
He's the best player in the NBA and is deserving of another MVP. Period

[francesco totti]

team record

both paul, durant teams got better record.

[BallsOut]

Depends on record

If Thunder get the best record I reckon Durant wins it this year.

Thunder had a better record last season than the Heat and Durant didn't win shit. The media/ESPN have been on Lebron's nuts for years.

[Cangri]

The only players that should be in the discussion are Lebron and Durant.

[Spaulding]

The only players that should be in the discussion are Lebron and Durant.

Paul too.

[Heavincent]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the MVP? I know a lot of you are gonna say "ur just saying that cause u hate lebron and bla bla bla"...no, that's not why. Lebron had a legit case for being the best player in the league for all 3 of his MVP's. I just think it's kind of hypocritical that us fans care about it so much. We're always talking about what a bunch of idiots the media are, yet we consider the MVP some kind of prestigious award? Many members of the media always have an agenda they're trying to get across. They all had boners for Lebron from 04 to 10, so they gave him 3 MVP's, then they hated Lebron in 2011, so they gave it to Rose instead. Now they're back to riding Lebron's dick. And the media hated Kobe from 04 to 07, so he pretty much got gypped despite putting up historic numbers from 05 to 07. And then you have Jordan getting screwed out of the MVP multiple times just because the media "didn't feel like giving it to him again". The ****? :oldlol:

Not to mention Steve Nash has as many MVP's as Kobe and Shaq combined. Nash is an all time great PG, but come on now. Kobe and Shaq were the two most dominant and successful players of the 2000's and are both top 10 player of all time, yet they only have 2 MVP's between the two of them.

[Bigsmoke]

I wanna see Chris Paul win it. :confusedshrug:

too bad his team keep blowing everybody out which limits his minutes.. and his stats :(

[longtime lurker]

Thunder: 24-6
Heat: 21-8

/thread

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He's the best player in the NBA and is deserving of another MVP. Period

The MVP award has never been the best player in the NBA award its more the best player on the best regular season team. :confusedshrug:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the MVP? I know a lot of you are gonna say "ur just saying that cause u hate lebron and bla bla bla"...no, that's not why. Lebron had a legit case for being the best player in the league for all 3 of his MVP's. I just think it's kind of hypocritical that us fans care about it so much. We're always talking about what a bunch of idiots the media are, yet we consider the MVP some kind of prestigious award? Many members of the media always have an agenda they're trying to get across. They all had boners for Lebron from 04 to 10, so they gave him 3 MVP's, then they hated Lebron in 2011, so they gave it to Rose instead. Now they're back to riding Lebron's dick. And the media hated Kobe from 04 to 07, so he pretty much got gypped despite putting up historic numbers from 05 to 07. And then you have Jordan getting screwed out of the MVP multiple times just because the media "didn't feel like giving it to him again". The ****? :oldlol:

Not to mention Steve Nash has as many MVP's as Kobe and Shaq combined. Nash is an all time great PG, but come on now. Kobe and Shaq were the two most dominant and successful players of the 2000's and are both top 10 player of all time, yet they only have 2 MVP's between the two of them.

good point. People here love to bash the media,some lebron supporters/ haters always love to try and discredit Kobe's all team defense selections because the media are "idiots" yet they will continuously bring up MVP, an award voted on by the media, yet will always ignore the fact that the media votes for MVP aswell.

[Nevaeh]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the MVP?
.

You're a Kobe Stan. Of course you don't care about MVP awards.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

[ILLsmak]

Thunder had a better record last season than the Heat and Durant didn't win shit. The media/ESPN have been on Lebron's nuts for years.

They can't keep giving him MVPs lol.

-Smak

[Ne 1]

You're a Kobe Stan. Of course you don't care about MVP awards.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif
I suppose you could say the same thing about Shaq or Olajuwon "stans". But anyway, MVP is pretty much nothing more than a media poster boy popularity contest. It used to be voted by the players, which is why Kareem won so many. If you were considered to be the most valuable player by your peers, you won MVP. Now it's about a story, a media marketing tool. If the media doesn't like a guy, they won't win many MVPs and they'll wait until the last minute to give it to them (i.e. Kobe/Shaq) But if the media loves a guy, they'll be awarded multiple MVPs before even getting a title (i.e. Nash/LeBron) and the media won't hesitate to award you more MVPs after winning your 1st if they love you, but if they hate you, it's unlikely they'll push you as the MVP after you've already won 1.

[Nevaeh]

I suppose you could say the same thing about Shaq or Olajuwon "stans". But anyway, MVP is pretty much nothing more than a media poster boy popularity contest. It used to be voted by the players, which is why Kareem won so many. If you were considered to be the most valuable player by your peers, you won MVP. Now it's about a story, a media marketing tool. If the media doesn't like a guy, they won't win many MVPs and they'll wait until the last minute to give it to them (i.e. Kobe/Shaq) But if the media loves a guy, they'll be awarded multiple MVPs before even getting a title (i.e. Nash/LeBron) and the media won't hesitate to award you more MVPs after winning your 1st if they love you, but if they hate you, it's unlikely they'll push you as the MVP after you've already won 1.


I wasn't responding to a "Shaq" or "Olajuwon" Stan, was I? I seem to recall you peddling that same "MVPs don't really matter" line a while back as well. Funny how it's only Kobe Stans that peddle it tho.

[Ne 1]

Lot of guys deserved MVP and didn't win it because they had to prove themselves first.

Like Shaq having to wait till he was close to 30 years old... same with Kobe.


Now they give the MVP to any 20-25 year old


Rose, LeBron and even Durant being 2nd in the running for it last few years. Before you used to have to make a hall of fame resume before getting a chance at mvp. You had to pay your dues.

If Rose never fully comes back healthy, he might not even make the hall of fame and to have an MVP not in the HOF is a black eye for basketball.

The criteria changes almost every year.

All times Kobe was snubbed... the media either said

A) He's not on a top 3 team

or

B) He has too much help

or

C) its not all about being the best player. You can't be selfish

or

D) he hasn't proved himself yet



Then you see guys like Jordan win in the 80's just based purely off stats. Then you see guys like Nash and LeBron win with 2 other All-Stars. Then you see guys like Rose winning at age 22. You see LeBron and Nash winning without a top 3 record.


The media changes it to whatever fits their agenda every year. It has devalued the award.

[Ne 1]

I wasn't responding to a "Shaq" or "Olajuwon" Stan, was I? I seem to recall you peddling that same "MVPs don't really matter" line a while back as well. Funny how it's only Kobe Stans that peddle it tho.

"Stan" is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself for being saltier-of-the-earth-than-thou.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.

No one self-identifies as a "stan;" the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, "ironic" Them.

You can't define what "that kind of behavior or opinion" actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That's because you don't use "stan" to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.

The twist, of course, is that if it weren't for your own insecurities, nothing that "stans" could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity, so you project those feelings onto others .

[Heilige]

Lot of guys deserved MVP and didn't win it because they had to prove themselves first.

Like Shaq having to wait till he was close to 30 years old... same with Kobe.


Now they give the MVP to any 20-25 year old


Rose, LeBron and even Durant being 2nd in the running for it last few years. Before you used to have to make a hall of fame resume before getting a chance at mvp. You had to pay your dues.

If Rose never fully comes back healthy, he might not even make the hall of fame and to have an MVP not in the HOF is a black eye for basketball.

The criteria changes almost every year.

All times Kobe was snubbed... the media either said

A) He's not on a top 3 team

or

B) He has too much help

or

C) its not all about being the best player. You can't be selfish

or

D) he hasn't proved himself yet



Then you see guys like Jordan win in the 80's just based purely off stats. Then you see guys like Nash and LeBron win with 2 other All-Stars. Then you see guys like Rose winning at age 22. You see LeBron and Nash winning without a top 3 record.


The media changes it to whatever fits their agenda every year. It has devalued the award.


What seasons should Kobe have won the MVP award?

[Ne 1]

What seasons should Kobe have won the MVP award?

IMO the MVP's should be

1999 - Shaq
2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - LeBron
2011 - LeBron
2012 - LeBron



MVP is the best player award in my eyes.. ( well it should be )

The best performer by a hair doesn't make you the best player... you're the best if you have the torch.. it lasts for your prime, and after your prime, you pass it on.

[Money 23]

What seasons should Kobe have won the MVP award?
Considering it's usually a mixture of best player, most valuable, combined with team success.

2003, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 are really the legit cases that could be made for Bryant.

And beyond 2008, there was some circumstance or a strong argument for other player(s) that could be made that derailed him being picked.

Sometimes I have internal debate given what CP3 did that season, with even less a supporting cast than Bryant. Before his knee injuries, when he had ACTUAL quickness CP3 was even more terrifying.

The argument for KG in 2008 to me doesn't hold water. He essentially turned into what we all knew he would've been best at his entire career. Super Pippen, the best second banana ever. Not necessarily a go to scorer in the clutch, he shyed away from that stuff, but a brash, versatile, mean, elite rebounding defensive anchor who could do it all on the court.

If the MVP was decided by what I consider to be THE BEST criteria: reg season and post season play. His MVPs would've been 2008, 2010

Just regular season? 2006, 2007, and 2008.

[Nevaeh]

"Stan" is a term co-opted for use as a meaningless pejorative in order to vaguely call someone else's authenticity into question and, by extension, claim authenticity for yourself for being saltier-of-the-earth-than-thou.

You gave this same spiel to another Poster already. Besides, you already know Heavincent's history as a Kobe Stan to not even take offense to it.

It serves no conversational function and imparts no information, save for indicating the opinions and preferences of the speaker.

Like I said, the only "MVPs don't really matter" argument that I've seen here on ISH come directly from Kobe "enthusiasts" (don't wanna hurt your feelings with the "S" word)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif


No one self-identifies as a "stan;" the term is always applied to an Other, to separate the authentic Us from the inauthentic, "ironic" Them.

See the above points, that weren't even directed at you, yet you're so worked up about it. If you're not a "Stan" yourself then, what's the big deal?

You can't define what "that kind of behavior or opinion" actually is, nor will you ever be able to. That's because you don't use "stan" to describe an actual group of people, but to describe a fictional stereotype that is an outlet for literally anything that annoys you.

I responded to an "Individual" in this case, and based on my observations of other INDIVIDUALS who are considered Kobe fans here at ISH, made another observation, as it pertains to MVP awards.

The twist, of course, is that if it weren't for your own insecurities, nothing that "stans" could do or wear would ever affect you emotionally. But you are insecure about your own authenticity, so you project those feelings onto others .

You, NE1, are talking to ME about responding emotionally? Dude, it was an observation that you're taking to the moon and back, reading entirely waaayyyy too deeply into. You could've just said you disagreed with me, and saved yourself the overblown psycho analysis of my response to another poster.

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif/bmi_orig_img/laugh.gif






Feels good to see that I still rattle you though, son. Remember, it's just a message board to talk smack on, my n!g.

:cheers:

[longtime lurker]

Am I the only one who doesn't really care about the MVP? I know a lot of you are gonna say "ur just saying that cause u hate lebron and bla bla bla"...no, that's not why. Lebron had a legit case for being the best player in the league for all 3 of his MVP's. I just think it's kind of hypocritical that us fans care about it so much. We're always talking about what a bunch of idiots the media are, yet we consider the MVP some kind of prestigious award? Many members of the media always have an agenda they're trying to get across. They all had boners for Lebron from 04 to 10, so they gave him 3 MVP's, then they hated Lebron in 2011, so they gave it to Rose instead. Now they're back to riding Lebron's dick. And the media hated Kobe from 04 to 07, so he pretty much got gypped despite putting up historic numbers from 05 to 07. And then you have Jordan getting screwed out of the MVP multiple times just because the media "didn't feel like giving it to him again". The ****? :oldlol:

Not to mention Steve Nash has as many MVP's as Kobe and Shaq combined. Nash is an all time great PG, but come on now. Kobe and Shaq were the two most dominant and successful players of the 2000's and are both top 10 player of all time, yet they only have 2 MVP's between the two of them.

This is 100% truth. The MVP is a joke as long as the media is voting. The players need to go back to voting for MVP to get a true reading on the award

[Money 23]

This is 100% truth. The MVP is a joke as long as the media is voting. The players need to go back to voting for MVP to get a true reading on the award
The award started to become suspect in the 2000s.

The media gave Nash the MVP because a) he's small, slow, smart and white thus relatable but also because b) he ushered in a new style of ball that emphasized the team akin to the 80's days of passing ... and got away from all the ISO stuff

So I mean as a player Nash isn't as good as those two guys, but he might have had a bigger "awakening" process on the league given his style of play and how it fit into D'Antoni's system. He's a HOF and a for sure top ten player of the decade.

Is he has good as Kobe and Shaq? No, he will be the first one to tell you that ... that's why he's an amazing PG he values and understands OTHER people's talents and how it can be used within a team structure.

Which leads us tot he next evolutionary player, LeBron. The guy with individual and ISO capable dominance of the generation before: Kobe, Mac, Pierce, Iverson

Fused with the throw back team orented ball and passing skills of the Magic, Bird, Penny, Nash, Kidd variety.

Nash wasn't really MVP, but he was certainly a refreshing ball player. And his influence lead to a change in the way teams play for the better.

1999 - 2004 was atrocious basketball. More mucked up and defensive in nature, sure. But ugly and stagnant. Nash ushered in beautiful team basketball again, and managed to make it cool. That's worth SOMETHING.

Maybe not 2x MVPs but lets not disrespect.

Now if only the modern game infused a bit of the gritty physcality of the defense from the 90's and early 2000's. And you'd have a new golden age for the sport. Physicality creates rivalries. Unlike the 90's you just can't let it become too physical.

The 80's had a nice little blend of free flowing team offense, with high scores, but the rules did allow for more physical play when necessary.

[DatAsh]

IMO the MVP's should be

1999 - Shaq
2000 - Shaq
2001 - Shaq
2002 - Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Duncan
2005 - Duncan
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe
2008 - Kobe
2009 - Kobe
2010 - LeBron
2011 - LeBron
2012 - LeBron



MVP is the best player award in my eyes.. ( well it should be )

The best performer by a hair doesn't make you the best player... you're the best if you have the torch.. it lasts for your prime, and after your prime, you pass it on.

Garnett was better than Duncan in 04'. No way Kobe deserves the award over Lebron in 09; Lebron led a much worse overall supporting cast to a better overall record, while also putting up better stats.

Other than that, good list.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I don't understand the whole "Best player on the team with the best record" thing. Because on one hand, people say that some players don't deserve it because their teammates are "too good" (LeBron 2011 ; Kobe 2009). But no one wins 55+ games with a shitty team. Stars on bad teams can be just as valuable as stars on good teams. The only differences are things out of their control like coaching and which teammates they're going to have.

I just hate how inconsistent voting for MVP is. Like why is LeBron more deserving of MVP now than 2011? People were saying that he teamed up with Wade and Bosh so he was discounted but this year those guys are still on the team, still playing like stars and the whole Heat team is even better. Even with Durant, his team is really good too. In fact, they, along with him, have only gotten better as years have gone by.

[Heavincent]

You're a Kobe Stan. Of course you don't care about MVP awards.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

Brilliant rebuttal. I'm amazed by your sound logic and reading comprehension. Good job.

:lol

[eliteballer]

Melo has a better case right now...Amare's been out the whole season.

[StateOfMind12]

He has been coasting. His team record is not as good as Paul or Durant's.


MVP will go to Durant more than likely since OKC will prol finish with a better RS record and then voters might favor Durant because of voters fatigue.

[Nevaeh]

The award started to become suspect in the 2000s.

The media gave Nash the MVP because a) he's small, slow, smart and white thus relatable but also because b) he ushered in a new style of ball that emphasized the team akin to the 80's days of passing ... and got away from all the ISO stuff

He won because of how important he was to his team's success,and because of his unselfish approach to the game, not because he was "slow and white".

http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif

So I mean as a player Nash isn't as good as those two guys, but he might have had a bigger "awakening" process on the league given his style of play and how it fit into D'Antoni's system. He's a HOF and a for sure top ten player of the decade.

He, along with Lebron, set the trend of getting teams focused back on Team Ball, and away from "chuck ball" which wasn't helping anyone on the team get any "shine", except for the chuckers themselves.

Is he has good as Kobe and Shaq? No, he will be the first one to tell you that ... that's why he's an amazing PG he values and understands OTHER people's talents and how it can be used within a team structure.

This could have also influenced the MVP voting, and not the need to play a "race card" just to make white people happy.

Which leads us tot he next evolutionary player, LeBron. The guy with individual and ISO capable dominance of the generation before: Kobe, Mac, Pierce, Iverson

Fused with the throw back team orented ball and passing skills of the Magic, Bird, Penny, Nash, Kidd variety.

Lebron was what I like to call a "New Breed" of player, something that seems to happen every 10 years or so in the League.

Nash wasn't really MVP, but he was certainly a refreshing ball player. And his influence lead to a change in the way teams play for the better.

Have to disagree with the "he wasn't an MVP" line a bit. Nash "did the damn thing" while he was in Phoenix.

1999 - 2004 was atrocious basketball. More mucked up and defensive in nature, sure. But ugly and stagnant. Nash ushered in beautiful team basketball again, and managed to make it cool. That's worth SOMETHING.

Maybe not 2x MVPs but lets not disrespect.

Exactly. The fact that he was actually efficient while leading his teams was icing on the cake.

Now if only the modern game infused a bit of the gritty physcality of the defense from the 90's and early 2000's. And you'd have a new golden age for the sport. Physicality creates rivalries. Unlike the 90's you just can't let it become too physical.

Had the League not become such a big money business, where Players are seen more as "investments" and "brands", then we'd probably see more of that grit. It's a pretty decent balance for now, I think, given that so many Players, Bigs included, are more of the "finesse" variety now.

The 80's had a nice little blend of free flowing team offense, with high scores, but the rules did allow for more physical play when necessary.

Yeah, you can't discount the fundamentals and players being more "League ready" back then either. I was glad to see Lebron break the mold of the "Too much, too soon" epidemic that was sweeping the League for a minute, with his "right outta highschool" approach to the game.




Hadn't quoted you in a minute, 23. Just felt like killing some time.

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[Ne 1]

Garnett was better than Duncan in 04'. No way Kobe deserves the award over Lebron in 09; Lebron led a much worse overall supporting cast to a better overall record, while also putting up better stats.

Other than that, good list.

Small regular season number advantages should not be used too heavily in deciding who's best IMO.

Kobe in 2009 proved he was still prime and in full mamba mode in the 2009 playoffs 30/6/6 .. 32/6/7 in the Finals

Same with Duncan did in 2004 when KG won MVP for "better numbers."

It was Kobe's league from 2006-2009. He had the torch.

Obviously putting up 32/6/7 in the Finals is 100X better than doing it in the regular season

In the playoffs/Finals numbers actually mean something if you're winning games against great competition.


I believe Kobe was still in his prime in 2009, and the best player in the league.

People said Hakeem was the best the year Robinson won MVP... he proved it when it mattered the most. Same with Jordan in 1997

[DatAsh]

Small regular season number advantages should not be used too heavily in deciding who's best IMO.

Kobe in 2009 proved he was still prime and in full mamba mode in the 2009 playoffs 30/6/6 .. 32/6/7 in the Finals

Same with Duncan did in 2004 when KG won MVP for "better numbers."

It was Kobe's league from 2006-2009. He had the torch.

Obviously putting up 32/6/7 in the Finals is 100X better than doing it in the regular season

In the playoffs/Finals numbers actually mean something if you're winning games against great competition.


I believe Kobe was still in his prime in 2009, and the best player in the league.

People said Hakeem was the best the year Robinson won MVP... he proved it when it mattered the most. Same with Jordan in 1997


Kobe played great in the playoffs, though Lebron did as well, but that shouldn't have any say in a regular season award. Lebron was the better player in 2009, though not by much. He led a much worse overall supporting cast to a better overall record; that to me says a lot.

I'm with you in thinking that 2009 was still a part of Kobe's prime. Kobe's prime is up there with the best ever, and I have 08 as his absolute peak, but we should also take note that 09 is also part of Lebron's prime, and arguably his peak at that .Peak Lebron is probably a bit better than peak Kobe - one of the few players in history for which I'm comfortable saying that - although not by much.

[Nevaeh]

Small regular season number advantages should not be used too heavily in deciding who's best IMO.

Kobe in 2009 proved he was still prime and in full mamba mode in the 2009 playoffs 30/6/6 .. 32/6/7 in the Finals

Same with Duncan did in 2004 when KG won MVP for "better numbers."

It was Kobe's league from 2006-2009. He had the torch.

Obviously putting up 32/6/7 in the Finals is 100X better than doing it in the regular season

In the playoffs/Finals numbers actually mean something if you're winning games against great competition.


I believe Kobe was still in his prime in 2009, and the best player in the league.

People said Hakeem was the best the year Robinson won MVP... he proved it when it mattered the most. Same with Jordan in 1997

You do realize MVP is a regular season award right?