Allen Iverson or Dirk Nowitzki?

[tgan3]

I had this discussion with my friend. Who would you take if you have them on draft day and want to build a team? and if they are in their prime and for one season?

Overall as a player, I sided Allen Iverson reason because I believe he is a one of a kind talent, can score the lights out with underrated passing ability and is just overall a very talented player and better baller then anyone not named Shaq, Duncan during his prime. Of course he had 1 MVP season in 2000-01 and trip to the finals and also 11x NBA allstar appearances.

Nowitzki on the other hand is just a total mismatch for anyone. A 7 footer who can shoot and handle and also has 1 MVP and a championship to boot. My friend's arguement is that Iverson is a one dimensional player, mostly a volume scorer with low fg% and doesn't really make a team improve while Nowitzki is more well-rounded.

I don't totally agree with that. But there's no question these are two unique players in NBA history. Who would you take and why? (For building a team and one season in their prime)

[Breezy]

If you want to win games, Nowitzki.

If you want to put asses in seats, Iverson.

[kurple]

Dirk had the better career

AI was a bigger talent and more dominant player

[JohnnySic]

Dirk had the better career

AI was a bigger talent and more dominant player
This.

[Rubio2Gasol]

I would take Dirk to start my team.

[knickballer]

Nowitzki by far. Dirk's teams has always been competitive, always finishing in the top 3 or 4 in the West and winning the West multiple times. AI's teams always were a fringe borderline playoff team in the East and he missed the postseason numerous times..

[ILLsmak]

There aren't many people I'd take over AI. Dirk was great in his championship win, but AI is just a better player. He makes a better impact from the guard spot and that's saying something about how amazing he was.

-Smak

[brain drain]

AI was a bigger talent and more dominant player

Pure crazyness. The only thing AI dominated was the ball...

[brain drain]

There aren't many people I'd take over AI. Dirk was great in his championship win, but AI is just a better player. He makes a better impact from the guard spot and that's saying something about how amazing he was.

-Smak

LOL. AI got to the Finals one time. Put Dirk in the east during the Leastern Conference years and he's in the finals practically every year.

[Xiao Yao You]

Dirk. He realizes there is 4 other guys on the court with him.

[Segatti]

Dirk is better than Wade and better than AI, no doubt.

[miles berg]

If you want to win games, Nowitzki.

If you want to put asses in seats, Iverson.

Yeah right, Dirk sold out more games consectively than any player this century. Look it up, and look at their crowd this year when he was hurt, the sellout streak stopped at over 500 consecutive while he was on the shelf.

Dirk by a large margin on the court, much more talented, way easier to build a winner around.

This isn't eve a close debate.

[TaLvsCuaL]

The white guy

[Whoah10115]

Dirk is the better player. Not to mention he'd be easier to build around..Iverson was too high maintenance.

[tmacattack33]

I'd take Dirk if he had a chance to play at playoff 2011 level.

If you take that out of it, I'd go with Iverson.

[chazzy]

I'd take Dirk if he had a chance to play at playoff 2011 level.

If you take that out of it, I'd go with Iverson.
It's not like he wasn't a good playoff performer prior to that though

[SilkkTheShocker]

Is this thread a joke? huge slap in Dirk's face...

[Bigsmoke]

Dirk all day

[JellyBean]

I would take Dirk over Iverson. A 7 footer who has shooting range is a rare bird.

[DirkNowitzki41]

I'd take Dirk if he had a chance to play at playoff 2011 level.

If you take that out of it, I'd go with Iverson.

Why do people act like Dirk was only good in 2011? :oldlol:

2011 Dirk is not different that any other Dirk, the only difference is that for the first time he had a legit center and a supporting cast that didn't magically disappear.

Dirk has always been great in the playoffs...

[knickballer]

Why do people act like Dirk was only good in 2011? :oldlol:

2011 Dirk is not different that any other Dirk, the only difference is that for the first time he had a legit center and a supporting cast that didn't magically disappear.

Dirk has always been great in the playoffs...

Pretty much this. He's always had post season success and unfortunately that first round loss to GS somehow still tarnishes his name. Ironic considering AI always lost in the first round(if they managed to make the postseason!)

Nowhere near the impact that Dirk had..

[KyrieTheFuture]

I would take Iverson but I don't have a problem taking Dirk. The disrespect for Iverson is astounding he never had teams half as talented as dirks teams. People give Kobe a pass for not passing to Smush parker but condemn Allen when that was basically his situation forever

[brain drain]

I would take Iverson but I don't have a problem taking Dirk. The disrespect for Iverson is astounding he never had teams half as talented as dirks teams. People give Kobe a pass for not passing to Smush parker but condemn Allen when that was basically his situation forever

LOL, so if Iverson had ever played with a good player like, say, Carmelo, he'd surely have won a ring, right?

[brain drain]

Also, just look at Iverson's playoff TS%.

It seems that when he played better teams and the defenses were prepared for him, his efficiency dropped to horrible levels. Out of 8 playoff campaigns, he had only 2 (yes, two) with a TS% above 50%, and 6 below that. His average payoff TS% is 48.9%

Dirk never was below 50%, his average is playoff TS% is 58.4%.

That gap is ****ing huge. It's the difference between
#1) a volume chucker scorer who is already inefficient in the reg season (51.8 TS%) and struggles against better defenses in the playoffs with his TS% dropping anotheer 3% and

#2) a guy that is always efficient and so good that he manages to stay at practically the same efficieny (58.1 reg season vs 58.4 playoffs) even when he plays better teams that have more preparation in the playoffs.

[francesco totti]

I am biased, and I would take AI.
Also AI at some point was the face of the NBA, the next jordan , best player in the game etc etc.

Dirk never was at one point believed to be best player in the game.Not even his mvp year, where most would say kobe.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Its astounding how poor teams affect legacy (see Charles Barkley)

[Mach_3]

LOL, so if Iverson had ever played with a good player like, say, Carmelo, he'd surely have won a ring, right?


Yea cause he wasn't 32 at the time right and clearly not in his prime anymore

[Mach_3]

Its astounding how poor teams affect legacy (see Charles Barkley)


I agree, Barkley is disrespected quite a lot around here

[KyrieTheFuture]

I agree, Barkley is disrespected quite a lot around here
It's because despite the fact you'd think this place was more informed than the average fan everyone is ring counters here

[kurple]

LOL, so if Iverson had ever played with a good player like, say, Carmelo, he'd surely have won a ring, right?
HAH

Iverson hate is crazy

[brain drain]

Yea cause he wasn't 32 at the time right and clearly not in his prime anymore
He was 31 when he went to Denver. He had averaged 33ppg and played 43 mpg the year before and was averaging 31pg in PHI immediately before getting traded to Denver. In Denver, he averaged around 25 ppg on around 4 or 5 shots less (which was to be expected because of Carmelo).

In his second season in Denver, he played all 82 games, had 26.4 ppg on the second highest fg% of his career and played 42 mpg.

The guy was not washed up. It was one of his best seasons. Still, didn't amount to more than 50 wins and a first round 0-4 playoff exit against the Lakers.

And his playoff performance in his first year with the Nuggets was even worse: while they even managed one playoff win against SA, Iverson shot 36.8% from the field (with a 29.4 3pt%). That's amazingly inefficient considering he had Carmelo to take offensive pressure off him.

So, to sum it up, 2 playoff campaigns with Carmelo. Combined result: 1 win.

[stevieming]

Dirk by a mile.

Dirk in 2011 was literally a white 7 foot Michael Jordan, to me it was the most impressive playoff run by any player since Shaq. Maybe even more so, as his team was the underdogs against the evil Miami Heat....

AI led team against that Miami heat, bron and wade would have more than cancelled out AI's wing play.

Dirk basically scored whenever he wanted to.....made Serge Ibaka, Bosh, Gasol, Haslem his biatch!! :cheers:

[kNicKz]

My friend's arguement is that Iverson is a one dimensional player, mostly a volume scorer with low fg% and doesn't really make a team improve while Nowitzki is more well-rounded.



When are we going to stop pretending that AI's passing game wasn't pretty damn good?

Edit: I would take Dirk though over him

[ZMonkey11]

Dirk. He can do more.

[schism206]

Well, Dirk is a better teammate, smarter player, better shooter, 7footer. AI was a tremendously gifted athlete, which made him shine even more so in 1v1 style ball. For what AI accomplished at 6ft is nothing short of amazing. I just don't think he was the most intelligent bball player.

That being said, I like the idea of a 7ft guy who can get his shot off whenever, wherever, and still be off balance and shoot at a high % to close in the last 2 minutes, than an undersized slasher, with a decent jumpshot.

So yea, I'd take Dirk.

[TheBigVeto]

Dirk wins this one easy.

[MetsPackers]

I was actually just thinking about how underrated Dirk is earlier today. I might even take him over KG, let alone Iverson. Dirk was never a loser, was one of the ultimate team players in terms of supporting his teammates and the franchise, not to mention big game after big game when it counted. If not for Duncan being in this era I think Dirk would have another ring. It was always Dirk versus stacked SA and he always just fell a little bit short. And I rooted for the Heat in 06 but that series could have definitly gone to the Mavs under different circumstances. Nothing against Iverson, but Dirk just seems like the ideal type of superstar to build around. Plus he always worked hard and continued to add different dimensions to his game

[MetsPackers]

At Dirk's peak the best two other players on his team were Jason Terry and Josh Howard, with a really weak bench; how is that such a great advantage for him? And anybody saying Dirk wasn't a top players his MVP year doesn't watch games; he had the most impact on the best team and was robbed of the mvp the year earlier. Now that I think about it, who the fvck was on that bench that was decent at all??

DJ Mbenga :roll:
young turnover machine Devin HArris?
And other assorted scrubs

[gin17]

both are really good, but dirk is the easier player/winner to build around. i mean, you could give him scrubs (as he always had in most of his career) and still have a winning record and be a contender. it's not that i'm saying he's a better player than iverson, but the mismatch he gives teams was too valuable

[TheMarkMadsen]

Ask this question in 2010 and its Iverson by a mile.

I always believe the 76ers were clueless on how to build around Iverson.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Ask this question in 2010 and its Iverson by a mile.

I always believe the 76ers were clueless on how to build around Iverson.

The 76ers tried every different way to build a team around Iverson. Whether it be through lottery picks, free agency, trade, etc. The guy just wasn't someone you could easily build around. And you sound like a f.ucking moron saying its "iverson by a mile" in 2010. Stick to watching And 1 highlights, f.aggot.

[bigt]

Ask this question in 2010 and its Iverson by a mile.

I always believe the 76ers were clueless on how to build around Iverson.

It's not Dirk's fault a tonne of people didn't take him seriously until he activated God-mode and won a title in 2011.

They're both one in a million talents, but I'd take Dirk all day every day. Proven playoff performer, has made the playoffs with both strong and weak teams (in the Western Conference) and is one of the clutchest people in the game

[Money 23]

Ask this question in 2010 and its Iverson by a mile.

I always believe the 76ers were clueless on how to build around Iverson.
How would you build around him?

I'm a fan of Iverson's heart and toughness but his style of play was EXTREMELY difficult to build around, and he made it easy on no one.

Those Sixers teams had up and coming talent that all got ran out of town given Iverson's game.

Do you surround him with great, gritty defensive players? Do you give him another superstar? What would you do?

It's difficult building around a 5'11 SG who doesn't necessarily look to pass all that often.

With that said, as a SG moving off screens he's better than almost all the current crop of SGs from Kobe to Wade to Harden. That was one ability that I really liked out of Iverson.

[chocolatethunder]

Ask this question in 2010 and its Iverson by a mile.

I always believe the 76ers were clueless on how to build around Iverson.
You've got to be kidding me. They, well at least Larry Brown knew exactly how to build around him. They took a guy who was a defensively liability not just because of his lack of size but because he gambled way too much in the passing lanes and surrounded him w a defensive stud team. A team who relied on him to score all the points and allow him to dominate the ball. It wasn't clueless at all it was brilliant and it got them to the finals.

[SCdac]

I was actually just thinking about how underrated Dirk is earlier today. I might even take him over KG, let alone Iverson. Dirk was never a loser, was one of the ultimate team players in terms of supporting his teammates and the franchise, not to mention big game after big game when it counted. If not for Duncan being in this era I think Dirk would have another ring. It was always Dirk versus stacked SA and he always just fell a little bit short. And I rooted for the Heat in 06 but that series could have definitly gone to the Mavs under different circumstances. Nothing against Iverson, but Dirk just seems like the ideal type of superstar to build around. Plus he always worked hard and continued to add different dimensions to his game

Not to sound like a dick, but Dirk and the Mavs lost to more than just the Spurs.

He lost to Nuggets, Hornets, Warriors, Suns, Kings, Thunder, Heat..... all those teams but the Heat didn't win a championship.

Of the 12 times Dirk's team made the playoffs, they lost in the first/second round 9 times, including 5 first round exits.

And yeah, it wasn't all by Duncan.

[Rasheed1]

Dirk is bigger and can do more damage in different ways..

Plus he reached the mountaintop..

[TheMarkMadsen]

How would you build around him?

I'm a fan of Iverson's heart and toughness but his style of play was EXTREMELY difficult to build around, and he made it easy on no one.

Those Sixers teams had up and coming talent that all got ran out of town given Iverson's game.

Do you surround him with great, gritty defensive players? Do you give him another superstar? What would you do?

It's difficult building around a 5'11 SG who doesn't necessarily look to pass all that often.

With that said, as a SG moving off screens he's better than almost all the current crop of SGs from Kobe to Wade to Harden. That was one ability that I really liked out of Iverson.

What up and coming players did inversion run out of town?

And to build around iverson I think you need to surround him with a solid cast of gritty energized defenders.

I'd have a center who's mainly a defensive and rebounding specialist who doesn't mind not having any plays ran for him. Mutombo was a great piece next to iverson.

I'd also surround him with shooters ala how the cavs built around another ball dominant player in Lebron. A spot up knock down shooter. Maybe a guy like Jeff Hornacek

Your point guard doesn't need to be anything special since iverson does handles the ball so frequently but he does need to be a good bam handler, very unselfish with a solid jumpshot. Basically Eric snow with a jumper. However I'd have iverson run point mostly so the pg would be the first guy off the bench.

Also you need solid second option, not necasarilly an all star but a guy who the defense has to respect and can go for 18-20 any given night. But once again he needs to be a good shooter and actually care about defense.

Iverson never really had a guy who could bail him out on his tough shooting nights.

I think you need a deep team full of energized defenders, a healthy amount of shooters, some big guards and tough gritty rebounders down low. While also having a solid 18-20ppg player along side iverson.

I'm on my phone so it's hard to he real in depth on this but if I was going to build a realistic team of current players to put around iverson it'd prolly look something like this.

Iverson
Shumpert
Batum
Bargnani
Tyson chandler

Sixth man: Calderon

Bench would be comprised of a hard noses defensive power forward. A 3 & d g/f
And a specialty guy like Steve novak.

It would also be important to have a few it's who can play multiple positions. Which is why I think shumpert and bargnani would be great fits.

[kentatm]

hmm

I think I'll take the gym rat who understands the point of practice.

[tgan3]

Exactly what I was saying. Although Iverson had a great defensive team in Sixers he never had a second option who can score. Give the 2001 sixers Dwayne Wade or even Blake Griffin now and voila, you have a potential upset of the Lakers then.

Also, regarding his stint in Denver. Iverson was just out of his prime but still putting up good numbers. Yes, he did play with Carmelo. Carmelo is a great player but the Nuggets were notorious for having no D. They had a good season record 50 wins, but not much playoff success.

I won't really blame Iverson on that, yes the Nuggets had talent. But you can NEVER win championships based on offense alone. Its like the 2004-05 Suns with (Nash, Joe Johnson, Stoudemire, Marion era). They still lost to Spurs a great defensive team. And on paper the Suns team were better then the Carmelo/Iverson's Nuggets.

No offense to Dirk but on the year he won. He had a real balanced and good team. Revising what I said earlier, I think Dirk is a better player to build around on, considering how underrated he is and being 7 foot with that fadeaway is too sick but you guys are just giving too much flak to AI. He would have won the finals and had deeper playoff runs with a 2nd option. plain and simple.

[StateOfMind12]

http://i.imgur.com/QSKWx.gif



Is this a serious question? Dirk and it's not even close.

[Round Mound]

Dirk is Better...But People are Overrating Dirk Big Time. Dirk Is Not a Great Rebounder, Defender or Passer. He is Pretty Much a Great Shooter and 1 on 1 Player. Dirk is Not a Great All Around SKilled Player.

[brain drain]

Dirk is Better...But People are Overrating Dirk Big Time. Dirk Is Not a Great Rebounder, Defender or Passer. He is Pretty Much a Great Shooter and 1 on 1 Player. Dirk is Not a Great All Around SKilled Player.

Lettuce be reality.

Dirk has a career playoff rebounding average of 10.3. Over his first 10 playoff runs, we was at 12 rpg.

One thing you need to consider is that because Dirk plays farther away from the basket, he doesn't get that many offensive rebounds.
If you look at his defensive rebounds, he has a playoff average of 8.7 defensive rebounds per game. Now look at Charles Barkley's defensive rpg (playoffs) and he's at - 8.7. Still want to claim that Dirk isn't a good rebounder?

On top of that, one of the things that doesn't show up in the stat sheets but is one of the reasons why Dirks teams were so successful is the fact that he's the ultimate stretch 4. His ability to draw bigs out of the paint creates spacing for his teammates.
If anything, Dirk's overall impact is very much underrated, because one of the most important things he brings to the table doesn't show up in the box score.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Lettuce be reality.

Dirk has a career playoff rebounding average of 10.3. Over his first 10 playoff runs, we was at 12 rpg.

One thing you need to consider is that because Dirk plays farther away from the basket, he doesn't get that many offensive rebounds.
If you look at his defensive rebounds, he has a playoff average of 8.7 defensive rebounds per game. Now look at Charles Barkley's defensive rpg (playoffs) and he's at - 8.7. Still want to claim that Dirk isn't a good rebounder?

On top of that, one of the things that doesn't show up in the stat sheets but is one of the reasons why Dirks teams were so successful is the fact that he's the ultimate stretch 4. His ability to draw bigs out of the paint creates spacing for his teammates.
If anything, Dirk's overall impact is very much underrated, because one of the most important things he brings to the table doesn't show up in the box score.

Truth. Dirk is a really solid rebounder and passer.

[spacebump]

I would take Iverson but I don't have a problem taking Dirk. The disrespect for Iverson is astounding he never had teams half as talented as dirks teams. People give Kobe a pass for not passing to Smush parker but condemn Allen when that was basically his situation forever

Iverson played on a team with a sixth man of the year and a defensive player of the year, he played with talent. (That year he also had the coach of the year.) Also, Iverson played with a talented Nuggets team.

Dirk is the better player.

[kenny817]

Dirk is Better...But People are Overrating Dirk Big Time. Dirk Is Not a Great Rebounder, Defender or Passer. He is Pretty Much a Great Shooter and 1 on 1 Player. Dirk is Not a Great All Around SKilled Player.

Career PLAYOFF average is over 10 rebounds a game

Gotdamn idiot

[kenny817]

I love Allen Iverson to death. Prime AI is one of the greatest to ever do it

But anyone with a brain...and I mean ANYONE...is taking Dirk

Easily. Not even close. Landslide. Wide margin.

No disrespect to AI tho

[ILLsmak]

How would you build around him?

I'm a fan of Iverson's heart and toughness but his style of play was EXTREMELY difficult to build around, and he made it easy on no one.

Those Sixers teams had up and coming talent that all got ran out of town given Iverson's game.

Do you surround him with great, gritty defensive players? Do you give him another superstar? What would you do?

It's difficult building around a 5'11 SG who doesn't necessarily look to pass all that often.

With that said, as a SG moving off screens he's better than almost all the current crop of SGs from Kobe to Wade to Harden. That was one ability that I really liked out of Iverson.

wat?

Plenty of teams would be great with Iverson. The idea that the team he had in Philly was "the perfect Iverson team" is laughable. Didn't even have great shooters.

Take a team with only one superstar and replace them with Iverson. That's how you build around them. You don't put another superstar alongside him, but you give him an all-around guy. Defensive PG, Iverson, All-around SF, Rebounding/Finishing PF and C.

There are teams in the NBA ready to accept Iverson if we get the time machine ready.

Omit Rudy Gay, take Iverson.. yesss. Omit Gallo, take Iverson. Omit Joe Johnson, take Iverson. Omit Danny Granger, take Iverson. Omit (whoever) and put Iverson on Minnesota. Redick/Wes Matthews and put him on Portland. Shit, throw him back on Philly. I'm only counting the teams I feel would really be contenders.

-Smak

[knicksman]

iverson is a zero impact player. sixers improves when he got traded. The reason why iverson had always been a first round or 2nd round is that he really is not a player to build around.

[bizil]

It's hard to compare bigs to smalls often times. I will say these two are really responsible for the small SG-combo guard craze as well as the stretch PF craze. And Dirk along with KG are mainly responsible for the oversized SF craze going on in the late 90's to early 2000s. Two unique alpha dog scoring juggernauts big time.

U could make the case that Dirk and AI are about the same GOAT wise for their respective position, even though Dirk might rank slightly higher. I think Dirk is the bigger matchup nightmare while AI is a way better passer. Its damn tough but Im gonna lean slightly Dirk because he's easier to build around. U can play him as a stretch PF and he's still 7 foot tall. Dirk is a good rebounder, can take him man off the dribble, and an underrated passer. But once again it's hard to compare a 6'0 to a 7'0.

[bizil]

Dirk is Better...But People are Overrating Dirk Big Time. Dirk Is Not a Great Rebounder, Defender or Passer. He is Pretty Much a Great Shooter and 1 on 1 Player. Dirk is Not a Great All Around SKilled Player.

I agree! I don't think Dirk sucks as a rebounder but he surely isn't a great one year in and year out. Think about guys like Barkley, KG, Rodman, Duncan, Love, etc. Those are PF's u consider as great rebounders. And he's even further off in terms of passing and defense. I prefer my PF's to also be great defenders, rebounders, or both in addition to being a great scorer. It's the edge KG, Timmy, Chuck, McHale, and Mailman have on Dirk. Let alone guys like Petitt, Hayes, and McAdoo when he ran PF. But Dirk is such a juggernaut that u would take him over some of those guys. But's let's keep it real, it's due SOLELY to his scoring prowess. Guys who are great all around PF's are guys like KG, Chuck, Duncan, and Webber.

[MavsPoke]

Is this a serious debate? :coleman:


It's Dirk with no question and no argument.

[brain drain]

I agree! I don't think Dirk sucks as a rebounder but he surely isn't a great one year in and year out. Think about guys like Barkley, KG, Rodman, Duncan, Love, etc. Those are PF's u consider as great rebounders.

You, sir, clearly have no clue.

Let's make this easy for you:

#1 Dirk plays further from the basket on offense than other PFs do. This provides advantages for his team (pulling a big defender out of the paint, clearing paths to the hoop for slashers), but it also means he will get fewer offensive rebounds than a player who plays closer to the basket.

#2 So, to compare Dirk's rebounding ability to other players, you need to look at defensive rebounds. And you need to look at playoff numbers to have meaningful comparisons, because that's where it counts and because Dirk's the opposite of a statpadder.

#3 So, let's compare career defensive playoff rebounding numbers:

Dirk: 8.7 rpg

Duncan: 8.8 rpg
Barkley: 8.7 rpg
Karl Malone: 7.7
Love: hasn't made the playoffs ever, reg. season: 8.2
Garnett: 8.7
Rodman: 6.2


Next time you fell the urge make idiotic claims please check your facts first, because it just makes you look stupid.

[bizil]

You, sir, clearly have no clue.

Let's make this easy for you:

#1 Dirk plays further from the basket on offense than other PFs do. This provides advantages for his team (pulling a big defender out of the paint, clearing paths to the hoop for slashers), but it also means he will get fewer offensive rebounds than a player who plays closer to the basket.

#2 So, to compare Dirk's rebounding ability to other players, you need to look at defensive rebounds. And you need to look at playoff numbers to have meaningful comparisons, because that's where it counts and because Dirk's the opposite of a statpadder.

#3 So, let's compare career defensive playoff rebounding numbers:

Dirk: 8.7 rpg

Duncan: 8.8 rpg
Barkley: 8.7 rpg
Karl Malone: 7.7
Love: hasn't made the playoffs ever, reg. season: 8.2
Garnett: 8.7
Rodman: 6.2


Next time you fell the urge make idiotic claims please check your facts first, because it just makes you look stupid.

U can put whatever spin u want to on shit ******! Love, Bob McAdoo, and Jerry Lucas were ALL STRETCH OR DEEP MIDRANGE PF's who were WAY BETTER than Dirk rebounding the rock. Defensive rebounding numbers are cool BUT u gotta do it regular season AND PLAYOFFS! For u to insinuate that Dirk is ANYWHERE CLOSE to the level of rebounder that Malone, KG, Duncan, etc. are is a CLEAR CASE of Dirk's dick in your mouth! U need you stomach pumped to get Dirk's nut outta your mouth. U got PG's that have gotten 8-9 boards a game like Magic and Fat Lever. That play away from the basket too. Guess who the premier triple double threat at PG is right now? A 6'1 guy by the name of Rondo.

It's not about how far u play away from the basket. It's about HAVING A NOSE FOR THE BALL TO GET BOARDS BITCH! There is a premium for boards and tough D at PF. Dirk as great as he is doesn't fufill the premium PF duties that highly skilled PF's or stretch PF's like Barkley, KG, Love, Lucas, Webber, Prime Larry Johnson, or Prime Derrick Coleman. All were very highly skilled in addition to being great at premium PF duties. Dirk is epic at what he does.... but not on the boards BITCH! Once again take Dirk's dick outta your mouth *****!!! I never said he sucked on the glass, but he ain't ****ing with all time great rebounders like KG, Rodman, Barkley, Love, etc. The precursor to Dirk in Bob McAdoo was a BEAST on the glass. Who was a faceup-stretch PF-C who was a great rebounder!

[Segatti]

Lettuce be reality.

Dirk has a career playoff rebounding average of 10.3. Over his first 10 playoff runs, we was at 12 rpg.

One thing you need to consider is that because Dirk plays farther away from the basket, he doesn't get that many offensive rebounds.
If you look at his defensive rebounds, he has a playoff average of 8.7 defensive rebounds per game. Now look at Charles Barkley's defensive rpg (playoffs) and he's at - 8.7. Still want to claim that Dirk isn't a good rebounder?

On top of that, one of the things that doesn't show up in the stat sheets but is one of the reasons why Dirks teams were so successful is the fact that he's the ultimate stretch 4. His ability to draw bigs out of the paint creates spacing for his teammates.
If anything, Dirk's overall impact is very much underrated, because one of the most important things he brings to the table doesn't show up in the box score.

Owned :applause:

[bizil]

I think some of u cats on here need a refresher course on what premium PF duties are. If u list the top ten PF's of all time, Dirk is the only one who doesn't fulfill those premium PF's duties at typical level. It doesn't mean Dirk isn't on their level, hell I would take Dirk over many of them. But facts are facts, Dirk isn't a great rebounder by any stretch. A playoff series is coo but depending on the matchup, Dirk may have a dominant rebounding series. Over the course of a season, u will most likely see every great PF AT LEAST twice. What if a team goes big and u got two centers in at the same time? U also have to factor the grind of the 82 game season. Some guys are simply more durable and can take the pounding to battle in the trenches. Once again I'm not saying Dirk sucks at boards. But Dirk is a legend for his revolutionary scoring skillset. Guys like KG, Barkley, Duncan, etc. are legends in large part for how they fufill those premium PF's duties. Bottom line case closed!!

[brain drain]

U can put whatever spin u want to on shit ******! Love, Bob McAdoo, and Jerry Lucas were ALL STRETCH OR DEEP MIDRANGE PF's who were WAY BETTER than Dirk rebounding the rock. Defensive rebounding numbers are cool BUT u gotta do it regular season AND PLAYOFFS! For u to insinuate that Dirk is ANYWHERE CLOSE to the level of rebounder that Malone, KG, Duncan, etc. are is a CLEAR CASE of Dirk's dick in your mouth! U need you stomach pumped to get Dirk's nut outta your mouth. U got PG's that have gotten 8-9 boards a game like Magic and Fat Lever. That play away from the basket too. Guess who the premier triple double threat at PG is right now? A 6'1 guy by the name of Rondo.

It's not about how far u play away from the basket. It's about HAVING A NOSE FOR THE BALL TO GET BOARDS BITCH! There is a premium for boards and tough D at PF. Dirk as great as he is doesn't fufill the premium PF duties that highly skilled PF's or stretch PF's like Barkley, KG, Love, Lucas, Webber, Prime Larry Johnson, or Prime Derrick Coleman. All were very highly skilled in addition to being great at premium PF duties. Dirk is epic at what he does.... but not on the boards BITCH! Once again take Dirk's dick outta your mouth *****!!! I never said he sucked on the glass, but he ain't ****ing with all time great rebounders like KG, Rodman, Barkley, Love, etc. The precursor to Dirk in Bob McAdoo was a BEAST on the glass. Who was a faceup-stretch PF-C who was a great rebounder!

Bob McAdoo? This is getting hysterical.
Dirk playoff rpg: 10.1. McAdoo playoff rpg: 7.6.

You're just an ignorant hater without a clue.

[bizil]

Bob McAdoo? This is getting hysterical.
Dirk playoff rpg: 10.1. McAdoo playoff rpg: 7.6.

You're just an ignorant hater without a clue.

Im talking throughout the duration of a career not just playoffs bitch! Dirk with 8.3 boards for his career doesn't qualify as a great rebounder. I never said he sucks (u do and major dick by the way) but he's not a great rebounder. He's a good rebounder, EPIC scorer, and arguably top 3 GOAT PF. But not a GREAT REBOUNDER by PF standards. And by the way, McAdoo had led the NBA in total rebounds in 74-75 bitch!

[brain drain]

Im talking throughout the duration of a career not just playoffs bitch! Dirk with 8.3 boards for his career doesn't qualify as a great rebounder. I never said he sucks (u do and major dick by the way) but he's not a great rebounder. He's a good rebounder, EPIC scorer, and arguably top 3 GOAT PF. But not a GREAT REBOUNDER by PF standards.

So you're the kind of guy who thinks that the regular season is when it really counts. You probably also prefer stats over wins. No wonder you like Kevin Love.

[bizil]

So you're the kind of guy who thinks that the regular season is when it really counts. You probably also prefer stats over wins. No wonder you like Kevin Love.

Kevin Love is just starting his career. Love hasn't had the chance to play with the talent that Dirk has over his career. But I DO dig Love being a beast on the glass, getting 25 a night, and being a stretch PF winning three point shootouts. Dirk is a great player but NOT a great rebounder. When u compare Dirk to the greatest rebounders, it's plain to see he's not on that level of rebounder

[gin17]

why are you so obsessed about dirk not being a great rebounder? yes, he is not an elite rebounder, but he is not the worst at it either. nevertheless, however good or great or bad his other stats are, the most important thing is that this dude is one of the most clutch players of all time. someone you can depend on when it matters. and for me, that's the most important stat/attribute that a GOAT/elite player should have. and for this guy, his lategame fadeaways are like layups for him. unguardable.

[Sampsonsimpson]

Allen Iverson is one of my favorite players of all time but I would go with Dirk.

[Balla_Status]

Kevin Love is just starting his career. Love hasn't had the chance to play with the talent that Dirk has over his career. But I DO dig Love being a beast on the glass, getting 25 a night, and being a stretch PF winning three point shootouts. Dirk is a great player but NOT a great rebounder. When u compare Dirk to the greatest rebounders, it's plain to see he's not on that level of rebounder

Your avatar is way too distracting dude.

[bizil]

why are you so obsessed about dirk not being a great rebounder? yes, he is not an elite rebounder, but he is not the worst at it either. nevertheless, however good or great or bad his other stats are, the most important thing is that this dude is one of the most clutch players of all time. someone you can depend on when it matters. and for me, that's the most important stat/attribute that a GOAT/elite player should have. and for this guy, his lategame fadeaways are like layups for him. unguardable.

Im not obsessed with Dirk being a great rebounder. But I'm not going to sit here and pretend he's a great one either. Many people think Dirk qualifies as a great rebounder which is flat out wrong. I was responding to those who think Dirk is a great rebounder. Stevie Wonder can even see Dirk is an epic clutch scoring machine with a scoring skillset never seen for a 7 footer. That supercedes MOST PF's who have played who may be better on the boards or defense. I feel THE MOST PREMIUM ASSET IN BBALL IS ALPHA DOG SCORING. So u are preaching to the choir in your post!

[ZaaaaaH]

You, sir, clearly have no clue.

Let's make this easy for you:

#1 Dirk plays further from the basket on offense than other PFs do. This provides advantages for his team (pulling a big defender out of the paint, clearing paths to the hoop for slashers), but it also means he will get fewer offensive rebounds than a player who plays closer to the basket.

#2 So, to compare Dirk's rebounding ability to other players, you need to look at defensive rebounds. And you need to look at playoff numbers to have meaningful comparisons, because that's where it counts and because Dirk's the opposite of a statpadder.

#3 So, let's compare career defensive playoff rebounding numbers:

Dirk: 8.7 rpg

Duncan: 8.8 rpg
Barkley: 8.7 rpg
Karl Malone: 7.7
Love: hasn't made the playoffs ever, reg. season: 8.2
Garnett: 8.7
Rodman: 6.2


Next time you fell the urge make idiotic claims please check your facts first, because it just makes you look stupid.


Basketball 101 Ether ! :applause: