Is Jeremy Lin a top 15 PG in the league?

[Kiddlovesnets]

What do you think?

[KungFuJoe]

He's on the cusp. He will be there eventually. He's a got a great all around game. His defense is already solid...he locked down Vasquez tonight...don't think he got a single bucket on him. He runs the offense very well...even though the game was ugly tonight, he played the most minutes of any Rocket.

If he gets a consistent 3 point shot...it will open things up so much for him.

[Rekindled]

he is in the group with Dragic, Nelson, Mo Will etc. if he can improve his shot he can be top 10, because his penetration and passing games are great already

[HoopDreams247]

Not yet.

[Budadiiii]

Absolutely not.

[FKAri]

he is in the group with Dragic, Nelson, Mo Will etc. if he can improve his shot he can be top 10, because his penetration and passing games are great already

I saw a thread the other day from 08 and MANY people had Nelson in their top 5 PGs. :oldlol:

[Kiddlovesnets]

I saw a thread the other day from 08 and MANY people had Nelson in their top 5 PGs. :oldlol:

:lol
Jameer Nelson is one of the worst passer/play-maker in the league, nowhere close to even top 15. But yeah, he did dominate Raymond Felton in a series before so perhaps this scored him some points?

[BlitzForce]

He is top 14 overall in impact in the league...


It's started by a MIT and Stanford grad. This guy was the Grizzlies' sole analyst since 2009, not a coincidence the Grizzlies got much better the past few years. The founder of this site was recently hired as Director of Analytics for the 76ers

http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2012-2013&mode=summary&sortnumber=92&sortorder=DESC

[SyRyanYang]

He is top 14 overall in impact in the league...



http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2012-2013&mode=summary&sortnumber=92&sortorder=DESC
Kevin Durant is not top50 according to this:facepalm
But yeah Lin's getting better and better

[TheBigVeto]

Here are the PGs better than Lin

1. Nash
2. CP3
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Williams
6. Rose
7. Irving

That's it.
So yeah he's top 15. Top 10 in fact.

[HoopDreams247]

Here are the PGs better than Lin

1. Nash
2. CP3
3. Rondo
4. Parker
5. Williams
6. Rose
7. Irving

That's it.
So yeah he's top 15. Top 10 in fact.

Troll...you're trying to get people to hate on Lin. Lin is obviously not top 10...yet.

[SyRyanYang]

Troll...you're trying to get people to hate on Lin. Lin is obviously not top 10...yet.
Isn't that what trolls do for a living?

[wang4three]

Top 15 isn't as cherished as it may seem considering there are only 30 starting PGs in the league. Maybe there are some really good reserve PGs right now (Jarret Jack, Rubio, Andre Miller etc.) but overall top 15 would mean you're average if you're on the bottom part of that list.

[HoopDreams247]

Top 15 isn't as cherished as it may seem considering there are only 30 starting PGs in the league. Maybe there are some really good reserve PGs right now (Jarret Jack, Rubio, Andre Miller etc.) but overall top 15 would mean you're average if you're on the bottom part of that list.

Even so, I'd still be happy for him. To be undrafted, benched, sent to the D-league for a lot of reasons beyond his control and to end up a long term starting PG in the best league in the world is a great accomplishment.

[Graviton]

CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Liliard
Holiday
Conley
Rondo
Felton
Lowry
Lawson
Irving
Curry
Jennings
Deron
Vasquez

Maybe, he is in that 4th tier, not a star, not a borderline all-star, not a "pretty damn good" PG, but "kinda good", solid player.

[FKAri]

:lol
Jameer Nelson is one of the worst passer/play-maker in the league, nowhere close to even top 15. But yeah, he did dominate Raymond Felton in a series before so perhaps this scored him some points?

Here's the thread:
http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134849



CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Liliard
Holiday
Conley
Rondo
Felton
Lowry
Lawson
Irving
Curry
Jennings
Deron
Vasquez

Maybe, he is in that 4th tier, not a star, not a borderline all-star, not a "pretty damn good" PG, but "kinda good", solid player.

Deron #14? lol. harsh.

[pnyozzzoo]

CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Liliard
Holiday
Conley
Rondo
Felton
Lowry
Lawson
Irving
Curry
Jennings
Deron
Vasquez

Maybe, he is in that 4th tier, not a star, not a borderline all-star, not a "pretty damn good" PG, but "kinda good", solid player.

you can list like that, but as a rocket fan
I would not take
Felton
Jennings
Deron
Lowry
maybe even Lawson over lin. Any name above would make rockets a worse team going forward.
+ too many good pgs nowadays, its better to have a max big + a 8 mill good pg plays d and can run a team. than have a max pg + a limited big.

[Remix]

CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Liliard
Holiday
Conley
Rondo
Felton
Lowry
Lawson
Irving
Curry
Jennings
Deron
Vasquez

Maybe, he is in that 4th tier, not a star, not a borderline all-star, not a "pretty damn good" PG, but "kinda good", solid player.
This big of a list and no mention of Jeff Teague?

[pnyozzzoo]

This big of a list and no mention of Jeff Teague?
Lin owns Teague, check their head to head 2 times this season.

[Remix]

Lin owns Teague, check their head to head 2 times this season.
Teague doesn't have much help anymore on the offensive end.

[pnyozzzoo]

Teague doesn't have much help anymore on the offensive end.
ya I feel Hawks is built wrongly and due to the east being so weak they are in the playoff no problem. So they will kinda treadmill this. They should blow up and rebuild for real.

[millwad]

you can list like that, but as a rocket fan
I would not take
Felton
Jennings
Deron
Lowry
maybe even Lawson over lin. Any name above would make rockets a worse team going forward.
+ too many good pgs nowadays, its better to have a max big + a 8 mill good pg plays d and can run a team. than have a max pg + a limited big.

I am a huge Rocket fan but you're delusional if you wouldn't take Jennings, Deron and Lowry over Lin.
And if you wrote that because of the contract issue, then you should be aware that Lin makes more money compared to Lowry and Jennings is still on his rookie contract.

[pnyozzzoo]

I am a huge Rocket fan but you're delusional if you wouldn't take Jennings, Deron and Lowry over Lin.
And if you wrote that because of the contract issue, then you should be aware that Lin makes more money compared to Lowry and Jennings is still on his rookie contract.
You have always gone very critical of Lin, unless he plays great, you will never give him any merit. to answer your question

1. felton (easy one, old vet with no future, beside 3 pts and slightly better less turnover nothing on Lin)
2. Jennings ( Chucker, rockets win more recently coz they speed up and harden buy into that and let lin run more plays and teamball plays to rockets strength, Jennings is bad at setting people up and trigger happy, not good d either and dude next year wants 10+ mil and way over his head)
3.Deron( max cat on the down spiral, everything is off with him, he may even turn into marbury, why would rockets take a max cat with this youth movement)
4. Lowry (well he wont play for mchale and now he move to toronto its more like his ego is more problem than mchale coz he s get quite a bit problem there too, injury prone, locker room problem prone, after the hot start he is coming down)
5. Lawson for some reason after getting paid 11+ still not happy, he s playing poorly and shoots poorly.Having a downer year He is not focused and Denver plays better with him play less or sit. He is also small causing d problem.

Like I said if you want anyone better you prob have to pay a lot more, then its better to have max. PF in that case.

[Graviton]

This big of a list and no mention of Jeff Teague?
I would list Teague, but Drew isn't using him properly. He is a 17/7/4/2 type player that is better off on a team without Smoove/Horford.

[pnyozzzoo]

I would list Teague, but Drew isn't using him properly. He is a 17/7/4/2 type player that is better off on a team without Smoove/Horford.
but if you gonna switch team just to suit player, I d say Put lin in Sixers( or any team he is the sole playermaker) he can average 16/9/4/2 easily.

If his slow start is due to knee then his start might still be bumpy, but after he turn around corner and get his speed jump and useage% up in december, on a team he handles the rock alone, he can definitely average 16/9/4/2.

[millwad]

You have always gone very critical of Lin, unless he plays great, you will never give him any merit. to answer your question


You can't have a merit when you barely have played in the NBA and I'm not going to judge a player based on Linsanity-run, in that case I would have done the same with Sessions. Of course I'm critical of a PG who can't go left and who can't shoot the 3 while being passive. Although I must say that I am pleased with how he has played lately.



1. felton (easy one, old vet with no future, beside 3 pts and slightly better less turnover nothing on Lin)



I didn't say anything about Felton and based on production I might take Felton as for now and considering that you suddenly made it about money I'd choose Felton due the fact that he makes 5 millions less than Lin.




2. Jennings ( Chucker, rockets win more recently coz they speed up and harden buy into that and let lin run more plays and teamball plays to rockets strength, Jennings is bad at setting people up and trigger happy, not good d either and dude next year wants 10+ mil and way over his head)



In my inital post I didn't judge based on contract and you're one of few who'd take Lin over Jennings. Jennings is younger and he has had a more dominant career this far and it's not really close. And Jennings doesn't lack a left/right hand and he can shoot the 3 which would be huge for the Rockets, Lin can't shoot the 3, at least not this far.




3.Deron( max cat on the down spiral, everything is off with him, he may even turn into marbury, why would rockets take a max cat with this youth movement)



Again, I didn't judge based on money but actual talent and read OP's post, it asks if Lin is a top 15 PG in the league, not about how much money he makes. And it's not like Lin is making little money either.

And Williams is easily a better player.




4. Lowry (well he wont play for mchale and now he move to toronto its more like his ego is more problem than mchale coz he s get quite a bit problem there too, injury prone, locker room problem prone, after the hot start he is coming down)



BS, it was never that he wasn't going to play for McHale, it was the issue with Goran and who they would play. Locker room problem prone? Haha, what?
He is easily a better player than Lin and give me some sources about his locker room problems..




5. Lawson for some reason after getting paid 11+ still not happy, he s playing poorly and shoots poorly.Having a downer year He is not focused and Denver plays better with him play less or sit. He is also small causing d problem.


Didn't comment on Lawson.




Like I said if you want anyone better you prob have to pay a lot more, then its better to have max. PF in that case.

You seem stupid, it was about talent and not about money and I don't really consider Lin to be a top 15 PG.

[millwad]

but if you gonna switch team just to suit player, I d say Put lin in Sixers( or any team he is the sole playermaker) he can average 16/9/4/2 easily.

If his slow start is due to knee then his start might still be bumpy, but after he turn around corner and get his speed jump and useage% up in december, on a team he handles the rock alone, he can definitely average 16/9/4/2.

Oh, god, stop blaming the knee surgery.
His surgery was like 9 months ago and he was said to be able to play after 6 weeks.

So putting him on a team like Philly's he would average stats like Jrue Holiday, you asian fans are so delusional.

[andremiller07]

CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Liliard
Holiday
Conley
Rondo
Felton
Lowry
Lawson
Irving
Curry
Jennings
Deron
Vasquez


Add to that Brandon Knight, Andre Miller, Steve Nash, Dragic, Jeff Teague and than you can argue ethier way for Kemba Walker, Mario Chalmers, Jose Calduron, Jack and Nelson, Mo Williams (who was playing well before injury) as well and in a month or so put Rubio and Wall on the definite better than list. You also can aruge JJ Barea who plays 10mins less and averages similar numbers and proved himself on the NBA's biggest stage.

Its really not a diss at all to Lin all it means is the PG position is beyond stacked. Hes come back well after a rough start credit to him.


Lin owns Teague, check their head to head 2 times this season.
You can't use basketball math, thats not how it works Teague matches up far better against the other 30 or so top guards imo than Lin does.

[pnyozzzoo]

You can't have a merit when you barely have played in the NBA and I'm not going to judge a player based on Linsanity-run, in that case I would have done the same with Sessions. Of course I'm critical of a PG who can't go left and who can't shoot the 3 while being passive. Although I must say that I am pleased with how he has played lately.




I didn't say anything about Felton and based on production I might take Felton as for now and considering that you suddenly made it about money I'd choose Felton due the fact that he makes 5 millions less than Lin.





In my inital post I didn't judge based on contract and you're one of few who'd take Lin over Jennings. Jennings is younger and he has had a more dominant career this far and it's not really close. And Jennings doesn't lack a left/right hand and he can shoot the 3 which would be huge for the Rockets, Lin can't shoot the 3, at least not this far.




Again, I didn't judge based on money but actual talent and read OP's post, it asks if Lin is a top 15 PG in the league, not about how much money he makes. And it's not like Lin is making little money either.

And Williams is easily a better player.




BS, it was never that he wasn't going to play for McHale, it was the issue with Goran and who they would play. Locker room problem prone? Haha, what?
He is easily a better player than Lin and give me some sources about his locker room problems..



Didn't comment on Lawson.



You seem stupid, it was about talent and not about money and I don't really consider Lin to be a top 15 PG.
Did you even read what I typed:
Any name above would make rockets a worse team going forward.

If you r rocket fan why are u so downer on your own player who seem will not leave rocket for foreseeable future. Does it hurt u to see a player you try so hard to pick on play on ur team. Never see you so critical of other rockets player? maybe just hate Lin?

still with this cannot go left bull crap, are you The Barry dude from ESPN, Lin is not efficient going to left,he made an effort to over come that this season he goes left plenty to keep opponent to not just sit on his right. watch the game. Lots players have dominate hand, the trick is get a sufficient off hand drive juz a couple times a game is enough to keep defender honest. Harden has dominate hand too.

play making is huge. Look at rockets when Lin sits , if Harden is in the hero mode the offense become so stagnant. Why do you think after rockets play more teamball and speed up, coach reply more and more on lin. he starts to play 40+ min games all of a sudden. at the same time they winning nicely.

Please, jenning is a poison pill,what talent dude chucks up less than 40% fg long 2s. Rockets play money ball, shot 3 get foul, finish at the rim, shot long 2 is the worst. A chucker do not get teammates involved is no no in a young team. Have you noticed when young player get fed on offense they also play hard on defense.

[pnyozzzoo]

Oh, god, stop blaming the knee surgery.
His surgery was like 9 months ago and he was said to be able to play after 6 weeks.

So putting him on a team like Philly's he would average stats like Jrue Holiday, you asian fans are so delusional.
Are you dumb or u fail at reading comprehension. Yes Lin had a slow start, ( whatever reason, not 100% physically, Harden join after training camp, the whole team not sure what's gonna be them, he is passive he defers too much he looks weak and slow he sucked, he admitted himself) but he turned the corner, in December he average about 15/7/4/2 , so i said if he handles the rock alone he s 16/9/4/2 , whats wrong with that. You start to sound like a hate refuse to take in whats happening and just only want to focus on the negative.

[millwad]

Did you even read what I typed:
Any name above would make rockets a worse team going forward.


Yeah, bro, Jennings, Lowry and Williams would make the Rockets so much worse. So delusional that it's not even funny.



If you r rocket fan why are u so downer on your own player who seem will not leave rocket for foreseeable future. Does it hurt u to see a player you try so hard to pick on play on ur team. Never see you so critical of other rockets player? maybe just hate Lin?


Because he's overrated, the asian fanbase, guys like you are so incredibly delusional and hype him up for nothing. He's been playing nice lately but he's no where as good as you try to make him to be. You even tried to excuse him for his knee, a surgery he went through 9 months ago and was said to be OK after 6 weeks.

And I don't hate him, I'm just not buying into this "hype" by all you new Rocket fans. And he's not the only one I'm not a fan of, go and check my posts about Patterson.



still with this cannot go left bull crap, are you The Barry dude from ESPN, Lin is not efficient going to left,he made an effort to over come that this season he goes left plenty to keep opponent to not just sit on his right. watch the game. Lots players have dominate hand, the trick is get a sufficient off hand drive juz a couple times a game is enough to keep defender honest. Harden has dominate hand too.


He can't go left, have you even seen him trying to finish with his left? I read somewhere that he had one of the lowest FG% among starting PG's in the league, it was posted on Clutchfans. It's one thing to have a dominant hand but it's another thing when you lack one hand like Lin.



play making is huge. Look at rockets when Lin sits , if Harden is in the hero mode the offense become so stagnant. Why do you think after rockets play more teamball and speed up, coach reply more and more on lin. he starts to play 40+ min games all of a sudden. at the same time they winning nicely.


Of course playmaking is huge but what other playmakers do the team have when it comes to guards? TD?



Please, jenning is a poison pill,what talent dude chucks up less than 40% fg long 2s. Rockets play money ball, shot 3 get foul, finish at the rim, shot long 2 is the worst. A chucker do not get teammates involved is no no in a young team. Have you noticed when young player get fed on offense they also play hard on defense.

Lin makes 3% more of shots while being alot more open than Jennings, stop writing out of your ass. And Jennings can shoot the 3, Lin hasn't proved that he can and a 3 point shooting point guard would be huge for the Rockets. Rondo who is considered one horrible 3 point shooter shoots the 3 as bad as Lin this season. So you're basically hyping up a player who lacks a left hand and who can't shoot the 3..

Go and start a thread and check who people would take, Jennings or Lin, haha..

[millwad]

Are you dumb or u fail at reading comprehension. Yes Lin had a slow start, ( whatever reason, not 100% physically, Harden join after training camp, the whole team not sure what's gonna be them, he is passive he defers too much he looks weak and slow he sucked, he admitted himself) but he turned the corner, in December he average about 15/7/4/2 , so i said if he handles the rock alone he s 16/9/4/2 , whats wrong with that. You start to sound like a hate refuse to take in whats happening and just only want to focus on the negative.

You're obviously dumb, your posts are barely readable.

So Lin's slow start was due not being 100% healthy? What was his injury? A 6 month old surgery which had a healing process of 6 weeks according to the media?

So you judge him based on how he did only in December? He played like garbage the most of the season and you only pick the good stuff?

Let me guess, you're asian and you were a Knicks fan last season.. You guys are so delusional that it's not even funny.. :facepalm

[millwad]

I can play the same game as pnyozzzoo, since he judged Lin based on December I'll judge Lin based on his 5 latest games,

His averages through the last 5 games; 12.2 points (44% shooting and 17% 3 point shooting), 6.2 assists, 4.4 turnovers, 6.2 assists and 2.2 steals.

GOAT player!

The issue with guys like pnyozzzoo is that they're cherry picking..

[MetsPackers]

you can list like that, but as a rocket fan
I would not take
Felton
Jennings
Deron
Lowry
maybe even Lawson over lin. Any name above would make rockets a worse team going forward.
+ too many good pgs nowadays, its better to have a max big + a 8 mill good pg plays d and can run a team. than have a max pg + a limited big.

Wow im gona make a wild guess here and say that youre asian, right? No shot jennings lowry and deron make the rockets worse. Deron and jennings? Really? Are you fvcking kidding me? Deron is seriously getting hated on after starting slow this season, lin has wet dreams about being as good as deron. Jennings is a star too, you could probably make a case for lin over lowry for the rockets as a squad, but individually its no contest. Lin will never even sniff an all star team unless asia votes him in which would honestly just be a disgrace to the all star games and makes all star bids a joke

Lin over dron and jennings smh

:kobe:

[pnyozzzoo]

Yeah, bro, Jennings, Lowry and Williams would make the Rockets so much worse. So delusional that it's not even funny.



Because he's overrated, the asian fanbase, guys like you are so incredibly delusional and hype him up for nothing. He's been playing nice lately but he's no where as good as you try to make him to be. You even tried to excuse him for his knee, a surgery he went through 9 months ago and was said to be OK after 6 weeks.

And I don't hate him, I'm just not buying into this "hype" by all you new Rocket fans. And he's not the only one I'm not a fan of, go and check my posts about Patterson.



He can't go left, have you even seen him trying to finish with his left? I read somewhere that he had one of the lowest FG% among starting PG's in the league, it was posted on Clutchfans. It's one thing to have a dominant hand but it's another thing when you lack one hand like Lin.



Of course playmaking is huge but what other playmakers do the team have when it comes to guards? TD?



Lin makes 3% more of shots while being alot more open than Jennings, stop writing out of your ass. And Jennings can shoot the 3, Lin hasn't proved that he can and a 3 point shooting point guard would be huge for the Rockets. Rondo who is considered one horrible 3 point shooter shoots the 3 as bad as Lin this season. So you're basically hyping up a player who lacks a left hand and who can't shoot the 3..

Go and start a thread and check who people would take, Jennings or Lin, haha..

Dude do you even watch the game or juz another boxscore hero. TD for play making? no regarding of defense? control of pace? hate on a player because he is popular and you some how think he does not deserve his popularity and have to hate. 3% 5% everything %, do you see how a player play, Do you think Jennings scoring the way this team prefers. and yes you can still flap his numbers while its low coz the bad start, but the season is long and both rockets and Lin turned around, I see Rockets winning at a high% games and Lin is number will trend up. Keep holding on to those numbers while it last.

And you know what, Lin is and will be more popular than Lowry will ever be this life its not gonna change. He is just popular, people love him.

[pnyozzzoo]

Wow im gona make a wild guess here and say that youre asian, right? No shot jennings lowry and deron make the rockets worse. Deron and jennings? Really? Are you fvcking kidding me? Deron is seriously getting hated on after starting slow this season, lin has wet dreams about being as good as deron. Jennings is a star too, you could probably make a case for lin over lowry for the rockets as a squad, but individually its no contest. Lin will never even sniff an all star team unless asia votes him in which would honestly just be a disgrace to the all star games and makes all star bids a joke

Lin over dron and jennings smh

:kobe:
Knicks fans.....

I said going forward Deron and Jennings will not makes rockets better.
See reasons above.
Deron is max, and He may very well going the down hill path while Lin is coming up, at the same time you need the max for a PF is will be huge.

Lin Harden Parsons +max PF+ asik can contend in a couple years.

Deron Harden PArsons + PPat + asik cannot contend.


Jennings... sigh , if you guys like a gunner who likes to shoot and shoots poorly, has worse playmaking. worse defense. Who thinks himself as a star and wants to get paid 10+ mil on this rocket team going forward...

[millwad]

Dude do you even watch the game or juz another boxscore hero. TD for play making? no regarding of defense? control of pace? hate on a player because he is popular and you some how think he does not deserve his popularity and have to hate. 3% 5% everything %, do you see how a player play, Do you think Jennings scoring the way this team prefers. and yes you can still flap his numbers while its low coz the bad start, but the season is long and both rockets and Lin turned around, I see Rockets winning at a high% games and Lin is number will trend up. Keep holding on to those numbers while it last.

Ok, now I know that you're asian and that you're only a Lin fan due his asian heritage since your english is so awful. My point was that Lin's playimaking is so important for the Rockets due the fact that there are no other point guard for the Rockets who can pass the ball.

I don't hate on a player because he's popular, I've never hated on someone due the fact that he's popular but with Lin it's uncalled for. He's a mediocre basketball player and he's famous because of his asian heritage which is silly because the dude is an american basketball product.



And you know what, Lin is and will be more popular than Lowry will ever be this life its not gonna change. He is just popular, people love him.

How does this even makes sense in any way? I don't give shit about Lowry being less popular than Lin, Lowry is easily a better basketball player. This is not a popularity contest, it's about who's the better player. Stop being a retard.

[millwad]

Knicks fans.....

I said going forward Deron and Jennings will not makes rockets better.
See reasons above.
Deron is max, and He may very well going the down hill path while Lin is coming up, at the same time you need the max for a PF is will be huge.

Lin Harden Parsons +max PF+ asik can contend in a couple years.

Deron Harden PArsons + PPat + asik cannot contend.


Jennings... sigh , if you guys like a gunner who likes to shoot and shoots poorly, has worse playmaking. worse defense. Who thinks himself as a star and wants to get paid 10+ mil on this rocket team going forward...

Haha, what an idiot.
You were a Knicks fan last season due the fact that Lin played there and now you're suddenly a Rocket fan.

So Deron and Jennings wouldn't make the Rockets a better team going forward but the mediocre Lin would, haha, what a joke.

[pnyozzzoo]

Haha, what an idiot.
You were a Knicks fan last season due the fact that Lin played there and now you're suddenly a Rocket fan.

So Deron and Jennings wouldn't make the Rockets a better team going forward but the mediocre Lin would, haha, what a joke.
Talking to you is an excise in futility.

see this?:

Lin Harden Parsons +max PF+ asik can contend in a couple years.

Deron Harden Parsons + PPat + asik cannot contend.

can you counter this?

well you think he is a mediocre basketball player hei its your opinion. You are entitle to it, talking on the internet is not gonna change yours or mine. But I think he is a good player that can become better even. He is smart works hard, have nice teamball concept, not selfish, got some key abilities at this stage already. Future is bright. And tell you what, lots people agree on that and not because they are all Asian, like you would like to think.

[MetsPackers]

Wow this dude is a bandwagon Lin fan? :roll:

What a terrible player to choose to be a stan for. I give Lin credit for becoming an average to slightly above avergae PG which is further than i thought hed get, but your wyllin with this shyt above him being better than Deron on ANY team. The rockets would ship lin out in a second for deron. Im not even gona argue cause you obviously are gay for Lin since hes asian which is pathetic because it shows what really makes you admire a player; and it has nothing to do with how they play basketball

Again, stop dodging the question, are you asian?

[pnyozzzoo]

Wow this dude is a bandwagon Lin fan? :roll:

What a terrible player to choose to be a stan for. I give Lin credit for becoming an average to slightly above avergae PG which is further than i thought hed get, but your wyllin with this shyt above him being better than Deron on ANY team. The rockets would ship lin out in a second for deron. Im not even gona argue cause you obviously are gay for Lin since hes asian which is pathetic because it shows what really makes you admire a player; and it has nothing to do with how they play basketball

Again, stop dodging the question, are you asian?
Another Knicks Moron, You guys sound like 16 year old teenager just got broke up with the ex girlfriend.

Why the **** would a Youngest team in the league with higher than expectation 18-14 record and forming great chemistry. ship out their young pg who is playing better and better to get a MAX Franchise player who leads his team with double salary super max team to 17-15 record in a much weaker Conference.

And the max player is hurting complaining shooting like shit play like shit, killed his coach and called himself a system player while being lazy and terrible on D. So that the Rocket can tie up their salary cap with a down hill bum and not sign a potential max PF and try to contend in a couple years.

Great idea Moron, Maybe you should ask King to give Morey a call. While you at it maybe Rockets should take Amare and form a dynasty since you guys willing to part with him for free. :oldlol:

[millwad]

Another Knicks Moron, You guys sound like 16 year old teenager just got broke up with the ex girlfriend.

Why the **** would a Youngest team in the league with higher than expectation 18-14 record and forming great chemistry. ship out their young pg who is playing better and better to get a MAX Franchise player who leads his team with double salary super max team to 17-15 record in a much weaker Conference.

And the max player is hurting complaining shooting like shit play like shit, killed his coach and called himself a system player while being lazy and terrible on D. So that the Rocket can tie up their salary cap with a down hill bum and not sign a potential max PF and try to contend in a couple years.

Great idea Moron, Maybe you should ask King to give Morey a call. While you at it maybe Rockets should take Amare and form a dynasty since you guys willing to part with him for free. :oldlol:

Shut up, seriously.

We know that you lack when it comes to knowing english but read the freaking thread title. It's about where Lin ranks among other PG's no matter what contract. Lin's not close to either Jennings or Williams, get real.

Lin is a mediocre player, he's not great but he doesn't suck, he's an average point guard and nothing more.

Fans like you are equal with shit, you don't even root for the teams, you were a Knick fan last year so you calling out other Knick fans is pure stupidity.

I've been a Rocket fan for years but guys like you are so lame, if Lin gets traded you will forget all about Rockets like you did with Knicks and then you'll hate the Rockets. Bandwagon-sucker..

[pnyozzzoo]

I've been a Rocket fan for years but guys like you are so lame, if Lin gets traded you will forget all about Rockets like you did with Knicks and then you'll hate the Rockets. Bandwagon-sucker..

You sound dumb and jealous, Blah blah I throw Labels on you, you are this you are that. I am a christian for 20 years I know gods more than you. You have no right to rap because black people started it, stop being copy cat. Blah blah. I am a fan longer because I know it and now I have rights to ask you to shut up because I think I know better because I have been longer. Because I am truer, better longer. Its mine, mine only.

Lol, How old are you.
It's a ****ing sports team with sport players, people cannot have different opinion and yours is right because you know others disagree are wrong. they must be. They should shut up. :cry: :cry: :cry:

[millwad]

You sound dumb and jealous, Blah blah I throw Labels on you, you are this you are that. I am a christian for 20 years I know gods more than you. You have no right to rap because black people started it, stop being copy cat. Blah blah. I am a fan longer because I know it and now I have rights to ask you to shut up because I think I know better because I have been longer. Because I am truer, better longer. Its mine, mine only.

Lol, How old are you.
It's a ****ing sports team with sport players, people cannot have different opinion and yours is right because you know others disagree are wrong. they must be. They should shut up. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Haha, it's really amusing to read your posts because your english is so bad and when you try to be sarcastic it just looks stupid.

You're obviously not getting my point, it's not about how long you've been a fan, it's about you being a bandwagon-fan. You're crazy obsessed with one player and that one player is always right and you're too biased and too attached to your beloved player which makes you completely blind. Just read your absurd posts about how good Lin is..

Last season you were a Knick fan and now you suddenly make fun of Knick fans and you're now a Rocket fan and when Lin leaves you'll write the same thing about the Rockets as you're doing now with the Knicks. It's sad how obsessed you're with one player and especially considering that you're only a fan of his because of his asian heritage, he's an american product for god sake.. :facepalm

[pnyozzzoo]

Haha, it's really amusing to read your posts because your english is so bad and when you try to be sarcastic it just looks stupid.

You're obviously not getting my point, it's not about how long you've been a fan, it's about you being a bandwagon-fan. You're crazy obsessed with one player and that one player is always right and you're too biased and too attached to your beloved player which makes you completely blind. Just read your absurd posts about how good Lin is..

Last season you were a Knick fan and now you suddenly make fun of Knick fans and you're now a Rocket fan and when Lin leaves you'll write the same thing about the Rockets as you're doing now with the Knicks. It's sad how obsessed you're with one player and especially considering that you're only a fan of his because of his asian heritage, he's an american product for god sake.. :facepalm

First of all, why you assume everything in your head and think its the case in real life.

How do you know all those things you said are true.

I am a player fan, because I Live in Vancouver and there is no longer an NBA team here. I always follow lots players esp small guys with the ball in their hands.
DRose, WB, CP3, Rubio(hated his 2 year delay thought he d be a bust but he's fun now)Lin is one of them, in fact favorite coz he is intriguing and unique.(not just coz he is asian duh, Its just a small part of it, the finished 4 year good college, Not drafted, cutted, explosion at first real opportunity some those elements are more cool and more related) so many black people like Lin coz he is asian?Of course too much god talk is annoying too.

I was a rocket fan Since Yao's rookie year there. until Mchale took over. A good few year. Not all nba fans are team fans coz they are not attached to a team. and NBA markets by players not teams, unless u lived in one city or for some reason attached to 1 you mostly follow players. I follow cp3 in Honets and now i dun give a shit about honets.

I Start watch knicks game since linsanity, never a fan of the team, just watched them. Why coz they play iso too much. I like to watch team play movement, and lots passing not iso dribble for 20 sec jack up a shot. But I dun hate no knicks , why would I hate a team when I dun root for 1. Like diehard root. not all fans are the same, respectful fans u respect them, lil punk fans you have have fun with them.

[fpliii]

No, but I have no doubt that he will be when he peaks later on in his career.

[fatboy11]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Jrue Holiday
7. Kyle Lowry
8. Kryie Irving
9. Tony Parker
10. Steph Curry
11. Ty Lawson
12. Damian Lilliard
13. Steve Nash
14. Goran Dragic
15. Raymond Felton

Those guys are in no particular order, but these are the only guys, as PGs, I can definitively put over Lin. I could see a good argument for Brandon Jennings (more of a scorer), George Hill, Kemba Walker, John Wall, Mike Conley, and Vasquez over him. He could be just outside the top 15 or in the early 20s. Not in the top half of starting PGs right now, but I'm more happy with him now than I was early in the season. Still trying to find the right chemistry with Harden.

[BlitzForce]

Kyle Lowry is trash, and has mental issues
Irving can't defend
Felton is an ineffecient chucker

[DMV2]

1. Chris Paul
2. Russell Westbrook
3. Rajon Rondo
4. Derrick Rose
5. Deron Williams
6. Jrue Holiday
7. Kyle Lowry
8. Kryie Irving
9. Tony Parker
10. Steph Curry
11. Ty Lawson
12. Damian Lilliard
13. Steve Nash
14. Goran Dragic
15. Raymond Felton

Those guys are in no particular order, but these are the only guys, as PGs, I can definitively put over Lin. I could see a good argument for Brandon Jennings (more of a scorer), George Hill, Kemba Walker, John Wall, Mike Conley, and Vasquez over him. He could be just outside the top 15 or in the early 20s. Not in the top half of starting PGs right now, but I'm more happy with him now than I was early in the season. Still trying to find the right chemistry with Harden.
Those guys are/were injured majority of the season, or having a shitty season (Deron's case).

Going by this season alone, Lin is closer to #10-#15 than #15-early20's

[MetsPackers]

Those guys are/were injured majority of the season, or having a shitty season (Deron's case).

Going by this season alone, Lin is closer to #10-#15 than #15-early20's

Even still, when everybody's healthy (and all of those guys will play this season), they're all still clearly better than him, except maybe Felton. However, he forgot Conley, Tyreke Evans (when healthy), Bledsoe, Rubio (when healthy), Walker, Ellis, Jennings, Knight, Wall, Kidd's playing better than him, shyt i'm probably even forgettin something. The injury reason is a cop out; all of thes guys are better than Lin when healthy and some of them are on even better contracts (for the asian ***). I honstly just can't sand people who dickride a player just because they're the same color as them, it's ignorant as hell. I follow players because of they're talent, and even then I don't try to argue that they're alot better than they are because they're the same race as me.

Pnyozzo only relates to Lin because they both have 2 inch wangs and bag no women.

Question is is Lin top 15 PG in the league, I assume that includes all PGs whether they've missed games or not

Edit: Didn't initally read all of fatboy11's post, he did include some of those guys, but I added a few more. I won't contest Lin is somewhere like 14-18 14 best case and not past like 22, and has the talent to probably be 11-15 one day, but he's not there yet

[plUto or bUst]

If Jeremy Lin is not top 15 this season, he's really close. By wins produced, he is ranked 14th out of all point guards (this season).

When he gets a jumpshot he'll be a solid top 10 point guard.

[DMV2]

Even still, when everybody's healthy (and all of those guys will play this season), they're all still clearly better than him, except maybe Felton. However, he forgot Conley, Tyreke Evans (when healthy), Bledsoe, Rubio (when healthy), Walker, Ellis, Jennings, Knight, Wall, Kidd's playing better than him, shyt i'm probably even forgettin something. The injury reason is a cop out; all of thes guys are better than Lin when healthy and some of them are on even better contracts (for the asian ***). I honstly just can't sand people who dickride a player just because they're the same color as them, it's ignorant as hell. I follow players because of they're talent, and even then I don't try to argue that they're alot better than they are because they're the same race as me.

Pnyozzo only relates to Lin because they both have 2 inch wangs and bag no women.

Question is is Lin top 15 PG in the league, I assume that includes all PGs whether they've missed games or not

Edit: Didn't initally read all of fatboy11's post, he did include some of those guys, but I added a few more. I won't contest Lin is somewhere like 14-18 14 best case and not past like 22, and has the talent to probably be 11-15 one day, but he's not there yet
I would use less racial disparaging references, actually none at all, if I was trying to give my point of view. Just saying...:oldlol:

[MetsPackers]

I would use less racial disparaging references, actually none at all, if I was trying to give my point of view. Just saying...:oldlol:

My new ISH strategy for dealing with idiots who will argue something that is clearly wrong is to simply try to hurt their feelings somehow or make them feel inadequate. It's like talking to a brick wall trying to explain how Kobe isn't the GOAT, or Lin isn't an all star to dickriders like that so I figure i'll just try to get in their head. It keeps me from getting mad at someone I already know is a retard and maybe I can get them to just feel bad because i'm sure as hell not gona convince them otherwise :roll:

[pnyozzzoo]

My new ISH strategy for dealing with idiots who will argue something that is clearly wrong is to simply try to hurt their feelings somehow or make them feel inadequate. It's like talking to a brick wall trying to explain how Kobe isn't the GOAT, or Lin isn't an all star to dickriders like that so I figure i'll just try to get in their head. It keeps me from getting mad at someone I already know is a retard and maybe I can get them to just feel bad because i'm sure as hell not gona convince them otherwise :roll:
First of all my feeling is not hurt at all, why wouldI be hurt by a few words appear on a internet forum which is used to discuss and express different opinions.

Sec of all, all you do is calling others idiot racist and gay. what does that make you. A raging teenager perhaps, no one takes a raging teenager seriously.

By the way , if you actually read what other's comment instead of spill your hateful blind nonsense. you would get the idea of what i wrote, in no way I said Lin is top 15 however He is a damn good player and had a bad start. but turned the corner and he and rockets are gonna get better. and I listed those guys someone suggest better than him and I give reasons why in rockets situation going forward Lin is better than them.

I guess if you are just a blind hater then yes, those things read as Lin is the better PG, Lin will be all star Lin is famous and Lots people like him and relate to his story and root for him but I for some reason don't and those people enrages me. I want hate and cuss because this is internet no one can see my face. Then guess what no one is going w/e shit u spill seriously.

[millwad]

Kyle Lowry is trash, and has mental issues
Irving can't defend
Felton is an ineffecient chucker

Oh, shut up, Blitz.

You're the biggest sucker ever with your lame youtube-channel. Get a life.

[millwad]

I would use less racial disparaging references, actually none at all, if I was trying to give my point of view. Just saying...:oldlol:

Is that why Jeff changed your location to "racist tranny lover" when he permbanned your last account?

[stevieming]

1. Chris Paul- Yup
2. Russell Westbrook - yup
3. Rajon Rondo - yup
4. Derrick Rose - injured, so shouldn't be in this list.
5. Deron Williams - hmmm...maybe, playing like crap and is such a whiner....
6. Jrue Holiday - yup
7. Kyle Lowry - yes but only by a bit
8. Kryie Irving - yup yup
9. Tony Parker - yup
10. Steph Curry - yup
11. Ty Lawson - yup
12. Damian Lilliard - yup
13. Steve Nash - ofcourse
14. Goran Dragic - yup
15. Raymond Felton - NO!!!
.

But then you can easily put in Mike Conley who owns Lin, can't believe you think Raymond Felton is better than Conley though...?

[fatboy11]

But then you can easily put in Mike Conley who owns Lin, can't believe you think Raymond Felton is better than Conley though...?

I mentioned Conley in my post, but I don't get to watch Grizzlies games because it's always blacked out since I live so close to Memphis. I don't really get to see him play that much.

And I don't think it's really fair to say Conley "owns" Lin. Lin's still trying to figure out to play with Harden. Conley doesn't have to figure out to play with Tony Allen on offense. Huge, gigantic difference. I have no problem with thinking Conley is better than Lin, though.

As for Felton, :confusedshrug: . I don't see how Conley is so much better than him as a player. Felton's more of a combo guard than Conley, so I guess there's that. They're right around the same area. I don't see much of a reason to gripe there.

[fatboy11]

Those guys are/were injured majority of the season, or having a shitty season (Deron's case).

Going by this season alone, Lin is closer to #10-#15 than #15-early20's

Deron Williams is still better than Lin. And I'm a Rockets fan. Nash is playing now, and still better than Lin as a PG. Derrick Rose is still in the NBA, and still better than Lin when healthy.

They count.

[andremiller07]

I honestly don't think you could put him over JJ Barea, that dudes impact on a game when playing well is something else and there stats are similar.

[plUto or bUst]

I honestly don't think you could put him over JJ Barea, that dudes impact on a game when playing well is something else and there stats are similar.

Except Lin is better than Barea in every statistical category (except for 3 pt shooting). He is much better than Barea defensively. There's a reason Barea only plays 23 minutes a game

[andremiller07]

Except Lin is better than Barea in every statistical category (except for 3 pt shooting). He is much better than Barea defensively. There's a reason Barea only plays 23 minutes a game

Theres also a reason he performed the best on the biggest stage and has a huge impact on a game. Lin is better in every catagory cause he plays 10+ mins and Lin is no defensive juggerknot. Please when you can bust up both Miami and OKC in a playoff series you can ball, I doubt Lin could ever do that.

Lin avg's 2 more points 0.6 rebounds and 1.9 assists more, JJ could easily do that in 10 extra mins. Barea performs well under pressure against elite teams. The reason hes not getting more mins is because Ridnour ain't that bad and Alexy Shved can run the point on top of Rubio coming back.

JJ is a pest on defense and draws plenty of fouls on offense the guy is real underrated cause people hate all the flopping crap he does. There also a reason Lin plays so much its because Tony Douglas is there back up...........

[fatboy11]

There also a reason Lin plays so much its because Tony Douglas is there back up...........

What's wrong with Toney Douglas? He's been good off the bench this season. He's playing 20 minutes a game and averaging 9 points, 2 assists, and 1 steal per game. Great FT shooter and shoots a very good % from 3. Overall FG% is lacking, but he's playing well.

Averaged 11.6 PPG, 2.4 RPG, 2.3 APG, and 1.3 SPG on 43.5 FG%, 46.6 3PT%, and 81 FT% in December. 24.8 MPG in December to Lin's 31.1 MPG in December.

Time to quit acting like Toney Douglas is one of the worst players in the league.

[andremiller07]

What's wrong with Toney Douglas?

Nothing is wrong with Douglas I like him as a player but in comparion to what Barea has to compete with its nothing.

[plUto or bUst]

Theres also a reason he performed the best on the biggest stage and has a huge impact on a game. Lin is better in every catagory cause he plays 10+ mins and Lin is no defensive juggerknot. Please when you can bust up both Miami and OKC in a playoff series you can ball, I doubt Lin could ever do that.

Lin avg's 2 more points 0.6 rebounds and 1.9 assists more, JJ could easily do that in 10 extra mins. Barea performs well under pressure against elite teams. The reason hes not getting more mins is because Ridnour ain't that bad and Alexy Shved can run the point on top of Rubio coming back.

JJ is a pest on defense and draws plenty of fouls on offense the guy is real underrated cause people hate all the flopping crap he does. There also a reason Lin plays so much its because Tony Douglas is there back up...........


Numbers may be similar but Barea is a backup that plays against other backups. If he was starter material he would have found a starting job by now. He is already 28.

Lin is putting up better numbers despite the slow start he had. You also have to take into account that Lin plays against the other teams starting lineup. I don't know where the "Jeremy Lin is a bad defensive player" crap comes from but from watching him play he is actually really good defensively. He's definitely better than Barea.

[andremiller07]

Numbers may be similar but Barea is a backup that plays against other backups. If he was starter material he would have found a starting job by now. He is already 28.

I don't know where the "Jeremy Lin is a bad defensive player" crap comes from but from watching him play he is actually really good defensively. He's definitely better than Barea.

He seemed to do fine against Chamlers and Westbrook on the biggest stage and hes ripped apart plenty of starting PGs. He would easily be a starter on some teams but hes played for good teams which have Rubio and JKidd on them.

I never said he was bad on D I said hes no juggernknot and while he may be better than JJ its not that big a difference.

That whole back up on back up argument was used on James Harden as well and he seems to play fairly well against starters.

Fact is JJ ripped it up far harder during Dallas playoff run on a more important stage against better defense than Lin did, he just never got hype/media marketing like Lin which resulted in the Rockets signing him as there starter. JJ can easily hang with starters.

[fatboy11]

Nothing is wrong with Douglas I like him as a player but in comparion to what Barea has to compete with its nothing.

I don't think Barea is hurting for minutes. Looking at the games Rubio played in, Barea still played around his season average for MPG. Wolves are probably just using Shved more at the 3, and playing a combination of Rubio/Barea/Ridnour as the backcourt. Everyone is getting their minutes, but yes, they're balanced.

The Rockets don't really utilize a back-up 2 right now. Harden plays 38 MPG and Lin 33 MPG. Lin, Harden and Douglas are the only 3 guards getting good minutes in the backcourt. Just a different structure. Minnesota's guards play balanced minutes and they don't have a star guard like Harden. Lin only averages 2 MPG more than Ridnour (Minnesota's starting PG).