Tristan Thompson is starting to get it.

[RedBlackAttack]

After what was called a reach at No. 4 overall, a so-so rookie season and a general "meh" reaction from most basketball enthusiasts, Tristan is beginning to show the basketball world why Chris Grant thought enough of him to take him so high in the draft.

At just 21 years old, he's got plenty of time to add to and refine his game, but it is time people start becoming aware of how he has produced since Anderson Varejao went down with an injury. I have always thought that Varejao and Thompson had redundant games and they weren't a good pairing on the offensive end. Now, those theories look to be true.

Here is how Tristan has produced in the eight games since Varejao has played...


@Boston - 11 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals
Indiana - 12 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks
@Milwaukee - 14 points, 14 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block
@Washington - 15 points, 12 rebounds, 1 block
Atlanta - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block
@Brooklyn - 17 points, 15 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks
Sacramento - 9 points, 13 rebounds
Tonight @Charlotte - 19 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists

Also, he's shown some very good defensive instincts and the team is notably better defensively when he is on the floor. In addition, the Cavs are 3-3 in their last 6 with Thompson logging heavy minutes in the middle.

Here are his averages since Varejao went down...

13.1 points on 51% FGs, 73% FTs
12.5 rebounds
0.9 assists
1.13 blocks


I'm not saying he's there, but his talent is becoming easily visible.

[fpliii]

What's his position in the long term?

[chips93]

What's his position in the long term?

power forward

hes a hair under 6'9 in shoes

[RedBlackAttack]

What's his position in the long term?
It really depends on who he is paired with. He sometimes has trouble with his man-to-man defense against skilled offensive centers, but there aren't many of those in today's league.

I'd say the ideal position is probably the 4, but he can play the 5 with success.

[Rose]

Luckily I picked him up in fantasy awhile ago.:pimp:

[Chapallaz]

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/nba/players/full/3462.png

[bdreason]

And when Varejao returns it's back to the bench.

[bdreason]

Luckily I picked him up in fantasy awhile ago.:pimp:


Trade him now because when V-Jo returns he turns back into waiver wire material.

[Meticode]

And when Varejao returns it's back to the bench.
Back to PF actually. He's not been on the bench all season.

[RedBlackAttack]

And when Varejao returns it's back to the bench.
Uh, yeah... Except, when Varejao playes, Tristan is the starting power forward and Varejao moves to the 5. :hammerhead:

[bdreason]

oh my bad based on his previous production I assumed he was coming off the bench.

[red1]

TT :applause:

[Pushxx]

What's his ceiling? I don't watch him enough.

[RedBlackAttack]

What's his ceiling? I don't watch him enough.
Hard to say what his ceiling is. He's still so young at just 21 and he has a lot of natural athletic ability. It really just depends on where he decides to focus with his game. I'm not sure if he'll ever become a reliable midrange kind of big man. He just doesn't seem comfortable more than 10-feet from the basket with the ball in his hands.

Then again, we've seen players helpless in that department early in their careers become efficient from range, so you never totally know for sure.

Right now, he's a very good rebounder and has the potential to be a very good defender. He has a very high motor and is an excellent natural athlete. The biggest thing for his first season in the NBA was confidence. He had a lot of trouble finishing around the basket. A lot of his success recently is due to becoming more comfortable around the basket.

He is even showing a semblance of a post game lately, including a pretty nice looking hook with either hand. He is improving so much from week-to-week, at this point, it is tough to say where his ceiling is.

One thing is for sure... Guy is a gym rat and works like hell on his game. He's shooting 72% from the line over the last eight games, which is astonishing if you saw his form early in the season.

[NuggetsFan]

I think he'll probably always be a reach at number 4. I'll need to see more than an 8 game stretch to change that. Might even be unfair to call him a reach I guess because it's not like it was realistic to draft a guy like Leonard, Parsons, Faried etc. at 4 or something. Think the what if game is stupid but think if you're Cleveland after landing a superstar in Irving you want more than Thompson at 4. Kinda reminds me of OKC getting Durant/Green in the same draft.

Good that it seems like he's on the upswing. Thing that would scare me about Thompson is his inefficiency for a big man on such low volume. Not like a Cousins who's routinely dropping 15+ but he seems to struggle with it while only scoring like 10 points. At the start of the season guy was shooting like 43% on 8.5 points taking almost 8 shots a game. Safe to say Cleveland lost alot of games that month.

[NattyPButter]

I rather wait a few more games before I say he's getting it. He can go back to his old self when AV comes back and start getting block 2-3 a game and making dumb decisions.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think he'll probably always be a reach at number 4. I'll need to see more than an 8 game stretch to change that. Might even be unfair to call him a reach I guess because it's not like it was realistic to draft a guy like Leonard, Parsons, Faried etc. at 4 or something. Think the what if game is stupid but think if you're Cleveland after landing a superstar in Irving you want more than Thompson at 4. Kinda reminds me of OKC getting Durant/Green in the same draft.

Good that it seems like he's on the upswing. Thing that would scare me about Thompson is his inefficiency for a big man on such low volume. Not like a Cousins who's routinely dropping 15+ but he seems to struggle with it while only scoring like 10 points. At the start of the season guy was shooting like 43% on 8.5 points taking almost 8 shots a game. Safe to say Cleveland lost alot of games that month.
I think draft position is pretty unimportant once a guy starts to actually play in the NBA. Unless you get the best player in the draft (which the Cavs did), there are always going to be "what if" scenarios for whomever you take.

As for his offense, it is a work in progress. Like I said above, he just wasn't comfortable around the rim early in his career and, as a result was getting a lot of shots blocked or altered. One of the reasons excitement is starting to build about him in Cleveland is because those issues are becoming visibly less common. And, his FG% recently is reflecting that.

Like I said, he isn't all the way there yet, but his talent and the reason some people were so high on him coming out of college is becoming clear to those who have been watching the Cavs consistently this year. Will he ever "live up to" the No. 4 pick? Hard to say this early in his career, but I'm not sure I really care. If he becomes a very solid starter on a good team, that is enough for me.

Only time will tell, but he's showing signs.


I rather wait a few more games before I say he's getting it. He can go back to his old self when AV comes back and start getting block 2-3 a game and making dumb decisions.

And, if that happens, I would say it is time to deal Andy, as much as I love the guy. If Varejao and TT's redundancy has been what is holding back Tristan, it is high time the Cavs give the keys to Thompson and look to the future. Tristan's growth as a player is paramount to the future of this team.

[KyrieTheFuture]

There's no one I would have picked over him who isn't a total surprise. No one thought Kawhi, Marshon, or Klay would have been worth a 4th pick either. It's not a wasted pick by any means so I'm happy.

[DMV2]

LOL, I picked him up a week ago. Not sure how he was in the FA pool that long.

[RedBlackAttack]

He's having another excellent game tonight, this time while matched up primarily against Omer Asik... A very good center in this league.

Through 3 quarters, Tristan has 13 points and 14 rebounds, including 8 offensive boards.

[DMV2]

Now that Tristan is producing and when Varejao returns, can both still be productive together? Maybe the East version of Love-Pek, Jefferson-Millsap, and Gasol-Zbo.

[RedBlackAttack]

Now that Tristan is producing and when Varejao returns, can both still be productive together? Maybe the East version of Love-Pek, Jefferson-Millsap, and Gasol-Zbo.
I think they may be redundant. Both guys are demons on the boards, have really high motors and do most of their scoring around the basket (although Varejao has added a bit of a midrange game).

I'm starting to think it's not an accident that Tristan is producing so well during the time Varejao has been out. I think when Andy is out there, TT naturally takes a backseat with a lot of the stuff he likes to do, because Andy takes care of the same things. It leaves Tristan in sort of a weird limbo when they are on the floor together.


I'll say this... I think what Tristan has shown the last few weeks makes Andy that much more available in a trade. And, I say that as a big Varejao fan.

Tristan is showing he can pick up a lot of the slack and I think the franchise may be best served, in the long-run, if they hand the duties over to TT.

[DMV2]

I think they may be redundant. Both guys are demons on the boards, have really high motors and do most of their scoring around the basket (although Varejao has added a bit of a midrange game).

I'm starting to think it's not an accident that Tristan is producing so well during the time Varejao has been out. I think when Andy is out there, TT naturally takes a backseat with a lot of the stuff he likes to do, because Andy takes care of the same things. It leaves Tristan in sort of a weird limbo when they are on the floor together.


I'll say this... I think what Tristan has shown the last few weeks makes Andy that much more available in a trade. And, I say that as a big Varejao fan.

Tristan is showing he can pick up a lot of the slack and I think the franchise may be best served, in the long-run, if they hand the duties over to TT.
I see...well, you guys are in good position then if Tristan can give be just as productive as Varejao is.

What do Cavs fans want for Andy V?

[upside24]

Looked good tonight and scored with confidence also getting seven boards before halftime.

Which is about the time the Bulls ran away with it.

Gibson looked good too. He would be great for Boston but doubt the Bulls would let him go.

[RedBlackAttack]

I see...well, you guys are in good position then if Tristan can give be just as productive as Varejao is.

What do Cavs fans want for Andy V?
Young talent + pick. I would say OKC is probably the team best in position, if they wanted to make the move. They have the 2013 Toronto first round pick plus young guys like Lamb and PJ3.

I'd love to see Varejao included in a package that somehow brought Rudy Gay to Cleveland, but that seems like even more of a stretch. Though, Andy's contract is absolutely fantastic considering his production and Memphis looks like they are going to have to move one of their stars.

[RedBlackAttack]

Looked good tonight and scored with confidence also getting seven boards before halftime.

Yep... Finished with a very solid 14 points on 6-12 shooting, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 block in just 32 minutes. Had this game been remotely close in the second half, he would have easily registered his 8th double-double in the last 10 games.

Tristan looks like he is gaining more and more confidence with each game. Guy is shooting 72% from the free throw line in the last 10 games. That is amazing considering how he started the season.

[1987_Lakers]

Will he continue to play like this when Varejao comes back?

[RedBlackAttack]

Will he continue to play like this when Varejao comes back?
I sort of doubt it. I explained it further in an above post. Their games are somewhat redundant.

That isn't to say TT doesn't contribute at all when Andy plays. His game was starting to come around prior to Varejao's injury. But, I don't think both guys can be at their absolute best on the floor at the same time.

[Hoopz2332]

not impressed...someone has to get those boards with Andy out:confusedshrug:

[Kujo]

Nice to see my fellow Canadian playing good ball now. I hope he keeps it up. :applause:

[MiseryCityTexas]

tristan is purposely playing good just to solidify varejao being outta there in a trade.i would not be shocked if he starts playing like crap again as soon as anderson is traded.

[cavsfanatic]

he hasn't been getting blocked and is dunking now. seems like a different player without Andy. I never seen somebody his size get blocked so much.

[chips93]

he is still bringing the ball down, and taking too long to gather himself, when finishing around the hoop, instead of just going straight up, (gibson got a good block on him last night, in that exact scenario, but it was called a foul), but he has come a long way offensively.

he was going right at the bulls frontline, one of the best in the league, and finishing pretty well. its nice to see him getting touches on the block again. he wasnt getting any earlier in the year.

his co.fidence appears to be at an all time high, and hes playing with more toughness. its great to see.

[DukeDelonte13]

he is still bringing the ball down, and taking too long to gather himself, when finishing around the hoop, instead of just going straight up, (gibson got a good block on him last night, in that exact scenario, but it was called a foul), but he has come a long way offensively.

he was going right at the bulls frontline, one of the best in the league, and finishing pretty well. its nice to see him getting touches on the block again. he wasnt getting any earlier in the year.

his co.fidence appears to be at an all time high, and hes playing with more toughness. its great to see.


all that and he's only 21/22. He has a lot of upside still. He was a solid pick.

[chips93]

all that and he's only 21/22. He has a lot of upside still. He was a solid pick.

yeah a solid pick, esp when you look at the guys picked after him, vesely, valanciunas, biyombo. none of those guys are doing much better, and considering vapanciunas apparently didnt wanna come to cleveland, as of right now, it was the right pick.

[RedBlackAttack]

not impressed...someone has to get those boards with Andy out:confusedshrug:
I'm sure there is some of that going on and there's no doubt Anderson eats up almost all of the rebounding opportunities when he is on the floor. I guess I could see how someone could come to that conclusion if they are simply looking at the boxscores after each game and not watching.

However, for those of us who have actually watched Tristan his first year+ in the NBA and have watched in the 10 games Varejao has been out, the improvement is absolutely dramatic. There has been a massive leap.

[NattyPButter]

Only reason AV got high rebounding numbers because he would always TT he got the ball when both were going for the ball at the same time. I noticed last night they took Boozer off of TT and stuck Noah on him in the 3rd qt. that has to say something

[RedBlackAttack]

UPDATE

Tristan had another tremendous game tonight, posting 11 points, 14 rebounds (6 offensive), 2 assists, 2 steals and 1 block.


Here are his updated gamelogs since Varejao has been out...

@Boston - 11 points, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, 2 steals
Indiana - 12 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks
@Milwaukee - 14 points, 14 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block
@Washington - 15 points, 12 rebounds, 1 block
Atlanta - 8 points, 8 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block
@Brooklyn - 17 points, 15 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks
Sacramento - 9 points, 13 rebounds
@Charlotte - 19 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists
Houston - 14 points, 16 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 1 steal
@Chicago - 14 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 block, 1 steal
Atlanta - 11 points, 14 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 1 block

Averages:

13.3 points on 50% FG, 73.3% FT
12.4 rebounds (4.6 offensive)
1.2 assists
1.1 blocks
0.4 steals
11 games
36.0 minutes

[Big Cheese]

of course another frontcourt player having a good game against our soft ass bigs. :facepalm

[hon]

http://www.basketball.ca/files/IMG_7271.JPG


http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sacre-Team-Canada.jpg





Thompson and MasSacre will be the starting bigs for Canada...

[MichaelCheazley]

http://www.basketball.ca/files/IMG_7271.JPG


http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sacre-Team-Canada.jpg





Thompson and MasSacre will be the starting bigs for Canada...
Pls Go....
http://cdn.sportsoverdose.com/thumbs/joel-anthony-50-nba.jpg

[Thorpesaurous]

The increased rebound rate may be a bit of a red herring. Someone coined this the Kevin Gamble theory when I was a kid. Gamble was a mediocre player for the Celtics in the abysmal era after the big three retired and Reggie Lewis had died. The team was terrible, but Gamble had a couple nice seasons and pushed 20ppg one year. But the point is if you're playing an NBA game, a certain number of points, rebounds, etc., are just gonna happen, and if you're the guy out there, then you very well may end up accumulating points. It's sort of the good numbers on a bad team kind of a thing.

However, I do like the kid. And he seems like a good fit. One thing you want if you're building around an end changing PG are athletic bigs who can get out and run. Most people think you want wings to run with, but almost all wings can run, so it's hard to get a huge advantage. Bigs on the other hand you can get an edge with a lot easier. Take those old Suns teams. They took two of the best end to end SF and PFs in the league, and moved them to PF and C, going from having a fast team end to end, to a rediculously fast one. If Thompson can play center, then that would be the ideal fit.
I'm not sure he can. Actually with his athleticism, I'm not sure it's impossible for them to eventually run some super big sets with him at SF, because he may be able to defend on the perimeter just enough to get by for 10 - 12 minutes a night. Have they experimented with a Thompson/Varejao/Zeller front line?
In the current league, it would be wildly unconventional, but at the same time with the league trending small, you could get a boost in short stretches, particularly with how good a help defender Varajeo is, and if Thompson could masquerade on the perimeter.

All said, moving Varajeo is the way to go. They should've moved him before the injury. He'd never played better. You'd be selling at the highest of highs, and the future of the front line is dependent on Thompson, and it would be worthwhile to see what Zeller has, who I liked coming in too.

[No_Look604]

http://www.basketball.ca/files/IMG_7271.JPG


http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Sacre-Team-Canada.jpg





Thompson and MasSacre will be the starting bigs for Canada...


Hellz yeah! Go Canada! Wait up for Wiggins!

PS - That first picture is hilarious...it's like the defining moment when Steve Nash tells Canada he's done as a player. Look at Coach's reaction with his hand out "wtf?"

[DirkNowitzki41]

beast. :banana:

[RedBlackAttack]

Very interesting post, Thorp. Let me address your points, one-by-one, since only me and a few others have actually watched all Cavs games this year (and last year).


The increased rebound rate may be a bit of a red herring. Someone coined this the Kevin Gamble theory when I was a kid. Gamble was a mediocre player for the Celtics in the abysmal era after the big three retired and Reggie Lewis had died. The team was terrible, but Gamble had a couple nice seasons and pushed 20ppg one year. But the point is if you're playing an NBA game, a certain number of points, rebounds, etc., are just gonna happen, and if you're the guy out there, then you very well may end up accumulating points. It's sort of the good numbers on a bad team kind of a thing.

Like I said in an above post, I can see why people who just see the boxscores and don't watch the actual games may come to this conclusion. And, yes, there is truth to the idea that someone needs to do the scoring and someone needs to do the rebounding.

However, let me go through the points which make Thompson's case a bit of a different one. First, you addressed the rebounding as the red hearing. Even with Varejao on the floor and even when his minutes were cut, it was pretty obvious that Thompson's best trait is his ability on the glass, at least at this point in his career.

Prior to Varejao being injured, Thompson was averaging 8 rebounds in 29 minutes a night. That is not a bad rebounding rate at all, especially for a guy being forced to play a different kind of game with a redundant Andy on the floor and only in his second season at 21.

I don't think there has ever been much question about Thompson's skill on the boards. I've felt all along that he has had the ability to eventually be an elite rebounder in the league.

Secondly, you look at his offensive rebounding rate since Varejao went down.... He is averaging 4.7 offensive rebounds a night (in 35.8 minutes). I don't know if that leads the league in this span of 11 games, but I'd be surprised if there was someone averaging more. Defensive rebounds can be shrugged off as a "someone has to get them" kind of scenario. Offensive rebounds are different. Those are second-chance possessions that players have to fight and scratch to get. And, 4.7 a night is an amazing number, even over just 11 games.

Thirdly, while Kevin Gamble played a bigger role in the offense with Reggie Lewis gone and his overall numbers may have increased, his efficiency dropped.

Thompson has gone from averaging 8.3 points on 46.6% from the field and 55% from the line with Varejao to 13.1 points on 50% from the field and 71% from the line without him. He just looks so much more confident and comfortable, it goes well beyond the numbers even.


However, I do like the kid. And he seems like a good fit. One thing you want if you're building around an end changing PG are athletic bigs who can get out and run. Most people think you want wings to run with, but almost all wings can run, so it's hard to get a huge advantage. Bigs on the other hand you can get an edge with a lot easier. Take those old Suns teams. They took two of the best end to end SF and PFs in the league, and moved them to PF and C, going from having a fast team end to end, to a rediculously fast one. If Thompson can play center, then that would be the ideal fit.
I'm not sure he can. Actually with his athleticism, I'm not sure it's impossible for them to eventually run some super big sets with him at SF, because he may be able to defend on the perimeter just enough to get by for 10 - 12 minutes a night. Have they experimented with a Thompson/Varejao/Zeller front line?
In the current league, it would be wildly unconventional, but at the same time with the league trending small, you could get a boost in short stretches, particularly with how good a help defender Varajeo is, and if Thompson could masquerade on the perimeter.
Interesting proposition. I can't specifically remember them going to that lineup at any point this year, though I would be sort of surprised if they didn't since those guys are probably three of our best five players.

Thompson has been playing a great deal of center lately with mostly success. He has had his struggles against legitimately 7-foot, offensively skilled centers... Though, fortunately, those are few and far between in today's league. Brook Lopez dominated him on that end of the floor.

But, then again, Tristan also played well offensively in that game. I think Thompson's length and athletic ability should allow him to play center for stretches without much of a problem in a league that has gone away from the conventional center.

He has also shown to be a pretty good P&R defender, which would bode well for maybe the team going to that big lineup you mentioned for short stretches. Of course, the 3 spot in today's league is so filled with explosively athletic talent, I'm not sure it could be a really consistent thing against most teams.


All said, moving Varajeo is the way to go. They should've moved him before the injury. He'd never played better. You'd be selling at the highest of highs, and the future of the front line is dependent on Thompson, and it would be worthwhile to see what Zeller has, who I liked coming in too.
I feel like Zeller has had a really nice rookie season. You mentioned how it would be good to have athletic bigs on the floor with Kyrie who could run the floor... That is maybe Zeller's best trait and he will beat an entire defense down the floor off of a miss at least a couple times a night.

Right now, I'm not sure if he will be a starting caliber player on a really good team, or an excellent big off the bench on a really good team... But, either way, those are things young, rebuilding teams will eventually need.

I think you will be able to spot what the front office thinks about Tyler with how they approach this year's draft. There is an abundance of big guys who will likely be on the board and we will almost certainly have at least one very high pick. If the pick is Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Nerlens Noel, etc., that probably means Tyler is going to be used in a backup capacity. If their target is Shabazz Mohammad or Alex Poythress, that probably means they are happy with Tyler's progress as a potential starting option.

[upside24]

Yep... Finished with a very solid 14 points on 6-12 shooting, 8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 block in just 32 minutes. Had this game been remotely close in the second half, he would have easily registered his 8th double-double in the last 10 games.

Tristan looks like he is gaining more and more confidence with each game. Guy is shooting 72% from the free throw line in the last 10 games. That is amazing considering how he started the season.
I thought he was picked too high but I'm starting to see why Cleveland got him.

With more minutes and touches he could become a very productive player.

[RedBlackAttack]

I thought he was picked too high but I'm starting to see why Cleveland got him.

With more minutes and touches he could become a very productive player.
I will be the first to admit that I was seriously questioning the pick the night of the draft (I'm sure the thread is around somewhere). I thought it was a reach, but only because he hadn't been on my radar really at all when evaluating who we were going to match Kyrie up with. I was almost certain it was going to be Valanciunas. I was confused at the pick and one of the big reasons was because Hickson was still on the roster and was our best up-and-coming player at the time.

However, I changed my tune relatively quickly after doing research on Tristan and seeing as how Hickson was already on his way out.

It is looking more and more like a solid pick, especially when you see the guys picked around him struggling to make any impact in the NBA.

[chips93]

zach lowe of grantland, (probably the best basketball writer online) wrote something on the cavs

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47075/with-anderson-varejao-injured-the-cavaliers-will-contend-for-the-no-1-draft-pick

hes pretty critical of the cavs, and the general tanking of the last few years, but hes very positive regarding tristans future. i think hes pretty much spot on about tristan, and how hes improved over the last couple weeks.

[RedBlackAttack]

zach lowe of grantland, (probably the best basketball writer online) wrote something on the cavs

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/47075/with-anderson-varejao-injured-the-cavaliers-will-contend-for-the-no-1-draft-pick

hes pretty critical of the cavs, and the general tanking of the last few years, but hes very positive regarding tristans future. i think hes pretty much spot on about tristan, and how hes improved over the last couple weeks.
Will read the article, but how is it tanking when the best player in the NBA leaves for a trade exception and you are forced into a complete unload/rebuild scenario basically overnight?

This team hasn't been good enough the last three years to win a bunch of games. Thanks for the link. Guess I should read his rationale before making a judgment.

[chips93]

i think the big thing is that we sat still last summer, and decided not to try sign any free agents. there were a plenty of free agents that could have made us a better team in the short term, that we passed on. im not sure if he neccessarily uses the word tanking, but he alludes to the cavs not being as competitive as we could have been.

he seems kinda skeptical of 'the thunder model' of tanking, of bottoming out and rebuilding almost entirely through the draft.

[RedBlackAttack]

i think the big thing is that we sat still last summer, and decided not to try sign any free agents. there were a plenty of free agents that could have made us a better team in the short term, that we passed on. im not sure if he neccessarily uses the word tanking, but he alludes to the cavs not being as competitive as we could have been.

he seems kinda skeptical of 'the thunder model' of tanking, of bottoming out and rebuilding almost entirely through the draft.
Just read it...

I can't think of a worse possible idea for this team than being incredibly active in the FA market this past season. First, the youngsters (Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Zeller) would still be the absolute keys to the future of this franchise. They aren't ready to be key pieces on a good team yet. Kyrie is the only one who is ready to make that leap, and even that is a bit tenuous, as he is still not good defensively and makes the kinds of mistakes you would expect out of a young guy (over-dribbling, prone to turnovers, controlling pace, etc).

So, what being an active player in the 1st or 2nd tier FA market this past season would have done is inflate the number of wins for a team whose real future is not ready to contend for the playoffs yet. I'm not a fan of that kind of rationale. We all want to win, I think... I root for the Cavs to win at this stage of the rebuild every night.

But, I'm not willing to exchange wins to put a serious dent in the cap situation, which might end up prohibiting the franchise from making the kinds of moves to become a playoff contender (and hopefully more) when the time is right. The time is not right yet.

I don't think having a high draft pick is really the goal at this stage... It is just a happy byproduct when the time comes. This franchise is just in a place where the guys being relied upon to lead the team to the playoffs are not ready to make that move yet and, thus, the front office is rightly holding off on making serious moves in free agency until that time comes.

And, while we wait, we can add a Shabazz Mohammad or Alex Len to strengthen the foundation.

I have absolutely no doubt that, when the time comes, Chris Grant and Dan Gilbert will throw around money without hesitating.

[DukeDelonte13]

Just read it...

I can't think of a worst possible idea for this team than being incredibly active in the FA market this past season. First, the youngsters (Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Zeller) would still be the absolute keys to the future of this franchise. They aren't ready to be key pieces on a good team yet. Kyrie is the only one who is ready to make that leap, and even that is a bit tenuous, as he is still not good defensively and makes the kinds of mistakes you would expect out of a young guy (over-dribbling, prone to turnovers, controlling pace, etc).

So, what being an active player in the 1st or 2nd tier FA market this past season would have done is inflate the number of wins for a team whose real future is not ready to contend for the playoffs yet. I'm not a fan of that kind of rationale. We all want to win... I root for the Cavs to win at this stage of the rebuild, I think. I root for the Cavs to win every night.

But, I'm not willing to exchange wins to put a serious dent in the cap situation, which might end up prohibiting the franchise from making the kinds of moves to become a playoff contender (and hopefully more) when the time is right. The time is not right yet.

I don't think having a high draft pick is really the goal at this stage... It is just a happy byproduct when the time comes. This franchise is just in a place where the guys being relied upon to lead the team to the playoffs are not ready to make that move yet and, thus, the front office is rightly holding off on making serious moves in free agency until that time comes.

And, while we wait, we can add a Shabazz Mohammad or Alex Len to strengthen the foundation.

I have absolutely no doubt that, when the time comes, Chris Grant and Dan Gilbert will throw around money without hesitating.


:applause: :applause: Spot on.


My biggest ultimate fear is that the cavs go the route of the Browns. Rebooting every 3 years or so. I am so sick of the bullsh*t pessimism of the cleveland fanbase regarding this team, calling for coach scott to be fired, yammering on how Grant blew the past two drafts, etc. Patience is the key here.

Gilbert giving Grant a blank check to acquire draft picks, one of which of course turned into a legit franchise player.

TT any way you slice it at this point was absolutely a solid draft pick, especially considering jonas' reluctance to play in Cleveland.

I think during the offseason most people would have been happy if Dion averaged between 12-15ppg his rookie season. I think Dion has tons of upside and Byron Scott is the perfect coach for Dion.

Zeller looks like he's gonna be a player in this league for years and years, and he's the OLDEST out of this young core.

Just imagine this team when these guys are all around 24/25, and the team spends in the FA market. I think the emergence of Kyrie and either TT/Dion/Zeller plus the cap space will make Cle a serious player in the FA market, or at least, as much as a player as a small market team can be.

[chips93]

obviously we dont wanna just sign anybody who'll come to the cavs, use all our space, and get stuck in mediocrity, but at the same time, cap space is there so you can actually use it, ya know?

fearthesword, a cavs blog over at sbnation made a great case for us signing nic batum over the summer, and it really made a ton of sense.you look at all tje rebuilding teams, and after a couple years, they all started making moves to get better in the shortterm. the grizzlies traded for z-bo when they had a pretty young team, and a lot of people didnt like the move, but it worked out.

another thing is, you dont want a culture of losing to seep in. to gilberts credit he seems very aware of this. (i think he called their record appaling, or something in that vein). teams like the wizards, they never really moved forward, and ended up having to move a bunch of talented but unprofessional guys. especially with a guy like waiters, who despite being on his best behavior this year, has a checkered past.

ideally, we draft pretty high again, and get one of those centers, noels, len, gobert, (i really dont like zeller), or maybe shabazz if he can play the 3, and then move forward and start really building and trying to win some games, with irving/waiters/tristan/2013draftee and some quality free agents.

[RedBlackAttack]

obviously we dont wanna just sign anybody who'll come to the cavs, use all our space, and get stuck in mediocrity, but at the same time, cap space is there so you can actually use it, ya know?

fearthesword, a cavs blog over at sbnation made a great case for us signing nic batum over the summer, and it really made a ton of sense.you look at all tje rebuilding teams, and after a couple years, they all started making moves to get better in the shortterm. the grizzlies traded for z-bo when they had a pretty young team, and a lot of people didnt like the move, but it worked out.

another thing is, you dont want a culture of losing to seep in. to gilberts credit he seems very aware of this. (i think he called their record appaling, or something in that vein). teams like the wizards, they never really moved forward, and ended up having to move a bunch of talented but unprofessional guys. especially with a guy like waiters, who despite being on his best behavior this year, has a checkered past.

ideally, we draft pretty high again, and get one of those centers, noels, len, gobert, (i really dont like zeller), or maybe shabazz if he can play the 3, and then move forward and start really building and trying to win some games, with irving/waiters/tristan/2013draftee and some quality free agents.
Didn't Batum get just under a max deal? So, it likely would have taken a legitimate max offer to get him to leave Portland for Cleveland. What part of Batum and getting the max makes any sense whatsoever? And, I really like Batum as a player and wanted him as much as the next guy. He isn't a max kind of player.

Yes, cap space is there to be used... When the circumstances are right. We may eventually have to overpay to get the kind of pieces needed to make a legit run down the road, but that point has not come yet.

As for a culture of losing... If 2/3 really rough seasons are enough to impact these young guys for the rest of their careers, they weren't the right picks to begin with. OKC was absolutely horrendous Durant's first two seasons. There is a long list of players whose careers started on bad teams and who became champions with those same franchises. Personally, I think the culture of losing thing is an overrated, over-diagnosed aspect to bad teams. Losing cultures last as long as rosters dictate.

This team is being built the right way and I'm in full support of the way things have been handled thus far by Grant and Co.

[RedBlackAttack]

:applause: :applause: Spot on.


My biggest ultimate fear is that the cavs go the route of the Browns. Rebooting every 3 years or so. I am so sick of the bullsh*t pessimism of the cleveland fanbase regarding this team, calling for coach scott to be fired, yammering on how Grant blew the past two drafts, etc. Patience is the key here.

Gilbert giving Grant a blank check to acquire draft picks, one of which of course turned into a legit franchise player.

TT any way you slice it at this point was absolutely a solid draft pick, especially considering jonas' reluctance to play in Cleveland.

I think during the offseason most people would have been happy if Dion averaged between 12-15ppg his rookie season. I think Dion has tons of upside and Byron Scott is the perfect coach for Dion.

Zeller looks like he's gonna be a player in this league for years and years, and he's the OLDEST out of this young core.

Just imagine this team when these guys are all around 24/25, and the team spends in the FA market. I think the emergence of Kyrie and either TT/Dion/Zeller plus the cap space will make Cle a serious player in the FA market, or at least, as much as a player as a small market team can be.

I'm happy with all of the draft picks so far. Sure, it would be nice if Dion's shot selection and scoring efficiency were better, but he is right around the FG% for the other 2s taken in last year's draft... And also right around the same rookie efficiency of some of the best SGs in the league now. This is a process and not every player is going to be able to step in and perform the way Kyrie did last year. I think some fail to comprehend just how rare it is for a 19-year-old guard to step into the NBA as prepared as Kyrie was last year. It just doesn't happen like that 99.9% of the time.

Zeller has been solid considering his draft position and in relation to expectations.


It is still completely possible that Grant has hit on all four picks, which not even OKC did during the course of their incredible franchise-building effort. Jeff Green was taken 5th overall. I think we can all agree, at this point, that this was a miss. That isn't to say Green is a bad player, but he was taken in front of Joakim Noah, who would be enough to make them practically a lock for a championship, imo.

So, while the writer points out that OKC got "lucky" in their draft picks with Russ Westbrook, Durant, Harden and Ibaka, I would contend that they didn't get "lucky." They just acquired so many high draft picks and were so bad in Durant's formative years, it allowed them to have more than one or two shots at really talented players. The more shots you get, the better the odds that you are going to hit.

The Cavs are following that model and I've always thought it was the best way to build a team, especially for a small market. Kyrie was a hit and that much is obvious. Tristan is looking like a solid pick and possibly a hit. I even think there is an outside chance he could end up becoming the second best player in that draft.

The jury is still out on Waiters and Zeller, but, as I said above, I like what I've seen so far. Even if it turns out we hit on two of four, that is going to mean a pretty bright future. If we hit on three of four, that means title contention down the road, I think. If all four are hits... Jackpot.

...and, we will have another shot at landing a top tier player in this year's draft. I just don't see any argument that this isn't the best way to build as a small market team. The losing to start is always a part of the process, just as it was for OKC. When the young guys are ready, the money will be spent and the wins will come.

Just need some patience, here. I know it seems like a decade ago, but it really wasn't long ago when this team had the best record in the NBA and the best player on the planet. Less than three short years later, we have another franchise player who is just 20 and he is surrounded by more young talent beginning to find their footing.

Patience. That would be my one-word retort to the Grantland writer.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tristan looked fantastic in the preseason. He seems absolutely tailor made for Mike Brown's defense... Great at showing on the pick-and-roll and getting back to defend the basket. He's been much more of a rim protector through the preseason than he has been his first two years and his activity, length and athleticism seems like it is going to create a lot of problems for offenses, especially with Andy/Bynum behind him.

Offensively, he was vastly improved last season. This year, he looks way improved over where he was at the end of last year.

I know it's just preseason, but I thought he was the best player on the floor in several of the Cavs' games. I thought he deserved consideration in MIP conversations last year, as he nearly averaged a double-double, played all 82 games and was averaging something like 13/11 in the 50 games without Varejao.

This year, the way he looked to me, he could potentially be in the running again. He actually showed a little range with his jumper, he has really developed his right hand and he looks to be a potential elite rebounder.


He might be my favorite player in the league at this point. This guy is everything that is right with the NBA... Hard-worker, maximizes his ability, doesn't complain or mug for attention... I've become a really big fan.

[andremiller07]

Tristan looked fantastic in the preseason. He seems absolutely tailor made for Mike Brown's defense...
Him and DeAndre Jordan were probably the two most improved players I saw this preseason hopefully for the Cavs and Clippers they can both keep it up but it gets interesting what happends in regards to Bennett if TT has a monster season.

[RedBlackAttack]

Him and DeAndre Jordan were probably the two most improved players I saw this preseason hopefully for the Cavs and Clippers they can both keep it up but it gets interesting what happends in regards to Bennett if TT has a monster season.
I don't know... they seem like they compliment each other pretty well. Tristan can play either the 4 or the 5. Bennett will likely play both the 4 and 3.

Bennett's offensive game already extends out beyond the 3-point line and he's the kind of guy who you can (hopefully) run an offense through. Tristan is more of an around the basket/x-factor type (though his offense is improving rapidly). Both very athletic guys. Versatility is the name of the game in today's NBA. I think that's one of the main reasons the Cavs went with Bennett, along with obviously believing he was the best talent with the highest ceiling in the draft... He can play multiple positions (hopefully) and attack in a variety of ways.

[JtotheIzzo]

I don't know... they seem like they compliment each other pretty well. Tristan can play either the 4 or the 5. Bennett will likely play both the 4 and 3.

Bennett's offensive game already extends out beyond the 3-point line and he's the kind of guy who you can (hopefully) run an offense through. Tristan is more of an around the basket/x-factor type (though his offense is improving rapidly). Both very athletic guys. Versatility is the name of the game in today's NBA. I think that's one of the main reasons the Cavs went with Bennett, along with obviously believing he was the best talent with the highest ceiling in the draft... He can play multiple positions (hopefully) and attack in a variety of ways.

When they trot out this lineup.

Irving
Jack
Bennett
Thompson
Verajao

it is gonna be fun as hell to watch.

Can't wait for this season.

[RedBlackAttack]

When they trot out this lineup.

Irving
Jack
Bennett
Thompson
Verajao

it is gonna be fun as hell to watch.

Can't wait for this season.
No doubt. Can't wait. Nice to have you aboard. *cheers*

If Tristan continues working the way he has in his first two years, Chris Grant will be looking like a genius. No one on the planet had TT going in the top 5 of that draft. People thought he had lost his mind, including me initially. Remember... the Cavs still had JJ Hickson on the roster at the time and he was the best young player in Cleveland.

Grant has been absolutely money in his draft evaluations with the Cavs so far.

[Twiens]

Expecting a 15/12 year with good defense, viva la Canada

[Uncle Drew]

I was really impressed by TT this preseason. I don't know how he did it, but he's basically hitting every jumpshot he takes. That along with his improved FT shooting, this could really be his year.

[DukeDelonte13]

TT was shooting under 50% from the FT line and had no offensive game from 8 feet from the basket coming in from college now he's hitting jumpers with his right hand.

TT has taken a major step in his development every season he's been in the league. He still has tremendous upside. Last season he added the face up drives, this season its the jumper.

[RedBlackAttack]

Well, tremendous start to the season by TT last night. I thought he was the best player on the court in the key stretches.

Here is a look at just how much his offense has improved...


10/30/2013 - Tristan Thompson Offensive Highlights Vs. Nets
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGLljMs4_2s)

[KB2009Champ]

I still dont see why they drafted Anthony Bennett who wont be able to play sf in the NBA. He's a PF - at a spot where you have a guy who looks great.

[RedBlackAttack]

I still dont see why they drafted Anthony Bennett who wont be able to play sf in the NBA. He's a PF - at a spot where you have a guy who looks great.
Their skillsets and approach are completely different though. Today's NBA is less about positions and more about versatility and skillsets which mesh well together. Tristan can play either the 4 or the 5 and Bennett likely will play a good bit at the 3.

There is no one the Cavs could have drafted who would be a starter on this team. Oladipo/McLemore would have made even less sense with Dion Waiters already here. I don't see how their skillsets would mesh in the least (unlike Bennett/Tristan) and it looks like Dion has improved greatly on the defensive side this offseason. He was hounding Joe Johnson all night long.

I wanted Noel, but who really knows where he is medically and maybe the Cavs hit on some other red flags? There's a reason he slipped out of the Top 5 completely. Same thing with McLemore.

[Haymaker]

I still dont see why they drafted Anthony Bennett who wont be able to play sf in the NBA. He's a PF - at a spot where you have a guy who looks great.

Bennett could play some 3 effectively if he loses weight. There's nothing wrong with drafting him since he's not starter material yet and provides a solid backup for Thompson. He could become a trade asset in the future too.

[DukeDelonte13]

Bennett could play some 3 effectively if he loses weight. There's nothing wrong with drafting him since he's not starter material yet and provides a solid backup for Thompson. He could become a trade asset in the future too.


He's going to be a PF that likes to hang out at the perimeter. He's shown he can guard PF's. Unlikely that he'll ever be able to guard SF's.

Bennett has an absolutely gigantic frame. He should embrace it and utilize that gift.

[RedBlackAttack]

He's going to be a PF that likes to hang out at the perimeter. He's shown he can guard PF's. Unlikely that he'll ever be able to guard SF's.

Bennett has an absolutely gigantic frame. He should embrace it and utilize that gift.
Too early in his career to make that kind of statement, imo. With proper help behind him, I could see him being athletic enough to contest smaller guys on the perimeter. That's where his length could really be an asset. You don't have to be able to stay with a guy step-for-step if you can cover large distances with your wingspan.

It isn't like NBA defenses are about one-on-one matchups anymore anyway. It's about five guys being on a string and knowing when/where to hedge. That's how Boris Diaw was able to have some success defending James in the Finals in small spurts. It wasn't because he could stay with James.

Brown will have this guy playing defense... I have no doubt. I also have little doubt we will eventually have that "defenses on a string" success in time, especially if Bynum continues his comeback.

Hell, Brown already had Dion Waiters looking like an elite defender last night. He was in JJ's hip pocket pretty much all night long.

[Uncle Drew]

TT to win MIP this year, book it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGLljMs4_2s