Jan 5, 7:30pm EST Game Thread: Houston Rockets (19-14) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (8-26)

[RedBlackAttack]

Game just started... Cavs off to a hot start. They lead 10-6 early on.

[RedBlackAttack]

Great start for the Cavs. Tristan is beasting inside. He has six rebounds just six minutes into the game.

Kyrie has had some dimes so far, too... 4 assists already.

[EnoughSaid]

Hope Kyrie goes off tonight! :rockon:

[brantonli]

Annoying 1st quarter, Harden hasn't gotten his at all, so not too surprised we are down.

[RedBlackAttack]

Annoying 1st quarter, Harden hasn't gotten his at all, so not too surprised we are down.
This is the first time I've really had the opportunity this year to sit down and watch the Rockets. The pace is absolutely insane... A little too overboard, imo. I understand what they are trying to do, but there should still be a semblance of control out there.

Maybe they just had an especially rough quarter.

[KungFuJoe]

I wish I knew how well Lin shot the 3 in practice...because he insists on continuing to shoot it in games.

[BlitzForce]

He shoots it well, 86% in drills I hear, game is different though

[EnoughSaid]

That was a gorgeous windmill crossover by Kyrie. :bowdown: Dude has everything. Great handles, can get to the rim and finish with many moves, reliable jumpshot, clutch, court vision, leadership, etc. If his defense can improve, he can be the best PG in the game and one of the best players in the game. And he's only 21, right?

[RedBlackAttack]

That was a gorgeous windmill crossover by Kyrie. :bowdown: Dude has everything. Great handles, can get to the rim and finish with many moves, reliable jumpshot, clutch, court vision, leadership, etc. If his defense can improve, he can be the best PG in the game and one of the best players in the game. And he's only 21, right?
He's actually 20. :oldlol:

[EnoughSaid]

He's actually 20. :oldlol:

Well shit I'm glad to have FOX Sports Ohio so I can watch this kid. :cheers:

[KungFuJoe]

Soon as I say something about Lin's threes...he makes 3 in a row.

[KungFuJoe]

Lin is on FIRE!

[brantonli]

Wow on that play, the Rocket's passing and off ball movement made mockery of the Cavs D...

[RedBlackAttack]

Lin is on fire this quarter. The Cavs' offense is getting stagnant. Get some movement out there.

[RedBlackAttack]

Lin just karate kicked Tristan right in the nuts. :oldlol:

[brantonli]

The best thing about Rockets is that despite the running, if you try and bang and penetrate, you still have Asik there stopping you. The day Asik gets injured (and I pray never), the Rockets are screwed (They'll have to go even more up tempo).



EDIT: And Kyrie irving is a beast

[KungFuJoe]

The best thing about Rockets is that despite the running, if you try and bang and penetrate, you still have Asik there stopping you. The day Asik gets injured (and I pray never), the Rockets are screwed (They'll have to go even more up tempo).

No shit. Asik is a beast down low.

[KungFuJoe]

Damn...Kyrie with the 3 at the end...

[RedBlackAttack]

Tristan already with a double-double at half. 11 points, 10 rebounds. This guy is really starting to put it together.

[RedBlackAttack]

The best thing about Rockets is that despite the running, if you try and bang and penetrate, you still have Asik there stopping you. The day Asik gets injured (and I pray never), the Rockets are screwed (They'll have to go even more up tempo).



EDIT: And Kyrie irving is a beast
Yep, looked like a much better team in the second quarter. Really a impressive all-around team. Definitely thin up-front, but Asik is a damn good player.

Very interesting frontcourt matchup tonight with TT/Zeller vs. Asik/Morris.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Tristan already with a double-double at half. 11 points, 10 rebounds. This guy is really starting to put it together.

His hooks have a strangely exaggerated motion, but they go in. Glad to see he's developing for you guys. I'm really hoping you guys can retool your roster this offseason and become a force next season.

[DuMa]

every time i get a chance to look at the cavs, theres always a no-name player playing that i never heard of. who is kevin jones?

[DuMa]

Harden started off cold but is now turning it on in the 4th a bit.

[spiegel]

You cant keep the beard down

[RedBlackAttack]

every time i get a chance to look at the cavs, theres always a no-name player playing that i never heard of. who is kevin jones?
Undrafted rookie out of WVU. He has spent most of this season in the D-League, but with Varejao being out, he has recently been called up. This is definitely the most burn he has gotten in his NBA career... Probably because it is the second night of a back-to-back.

Harden is making some absurd shots down the stretch.

[IGotACoolStory]

Jones was a beast at WVU. I really thought he would be drafted.

A bit undersized, but plays much bigger than his listed height. Can shoot out to the 3pt line, put it on the floor, and was a monster on the glass in college.

[noob cake]

KI :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RedBlackAttack]

Jones was a beast at WVU. I really thought he would be drafted.

A bit undersized, but plays much bigger than his listed height. Can shoot out to the 3pt line, put it on the floor, and was a monster on the glass in college.
I've liked a lot of what I've seen out of the guy. I think he has potential to be a contributor in the NBA. He was pretty roundly considered the best player not drafted.


Kyrie really turning it on. This has been a fun game.

[DuMa]

Harden has been super clutch.
Lin with a little flop

[RedBlackAttack]

Wow... What a flop. :oldlol:

Kyrie slightly extended the arm in trying to get separation, but wow... You would have thought he was run over by a truck.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Wow... What a flop. :oldlol:

Irving's head hit him in the face. No flop there.

[RedBlackAttack]

Irving's head hit him in the face. No flop there.
I just rewound and watched the replay. His head definitely didn't touch Lin's face. I don't even have a huge problem with the call, because Kyrie definitely slightly extended the arm, but that was some major theatrics.

[NattyPButter]

Kyrie really needs to work on not turning the ball over so much.

[spiegel]

25 points in the 2nd half for mr harden. including 16 in the last

[KungFuJoe]

This game is OVAH!

[RedBlackAttack]

GG Rockets fans.

[DuMa]

Harden is solidifying his bench seat in the All-Star game. :applause:

[TheAesirsFinest]

I just rewound and watched the replay. His head definitely didn't touch Lin's face. I don't even have a huge problem with the call, because Kyrie definitely slightly extended the arm, but that was some major theatrics.

I don't have the luxury of replay, but I could have sworn his head made contact with his face...The angle was perfect, and I think I'm pretty objective.

But yeah, good game man. Wish you guys best of luck for the rest of the season except in our game on 3/22 :cheers:

[francesco totti]

that was laughable flop by lin.yeh it was a foul..
but he acted like he got hit in the face lmao..

lin should play for barcelona now lol

[KungFuJoe]

It was a flop, but Kyrie extended his arm BIG time...

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't have the luxury of replay, but I could have sworn his head made contact with his face...The angle was perfect, and I think I'm pretty objective.
Trust me... It didn't. Based on your comment, I backed up my DVR and watched it from several angles. There was clearly no contact between the players' heads.

The way Lin thew his head back, I could see how you may have thought so.

[KungFuJoe]

Damn Harden had 7 steals.

[TheAesirsFinest]

Trust me... It didn't. Based on your comment, I backed up my DVR and watched it from several angles. There was clearly no contact between the players' heads.

The way Lin thew his head back, I could see how you may have thought so.

Alright, I'll take your word for it. Out of curiosity, do you want the Cavs to lose more games this season to get a higher draft pick?

[noob cake]

Flop by lin. Slight arm push off by Irving so league won't get him for that.

HARGOAT 25 pts in the 2nd half, 16 in 4th.

[RedBlackAttack]

Alright, I'll take your word for it. Out of curiosity, do you want the Cavs to lose more games this season to get a higher draft pick?
No, I root for the Cavs to win every night, at this point. The high draft pick will come regardless, because this team is just way too young and inexperienced to compete for the playoffs right now. But, I want to see these guys start to figure out how to win.

The Cavs have been in an incredible amount of close games this year and they just haven't figured out how to close, as a team. When they start doing that, I won't be complaining because of the draft. There is already a ton of talent on that roster. When they are ready to compete for the playoffs, I'm sure the FO will begin reinforcing the roster with FAs and trades. The Cavs have one of the very best salary situations in the league.

They just aren't to that point quite yet. So, continue to get experience and grow together. Wins are a good thing at this point.

[TheAesirsFinest]

No, I root for the Cavs to win every night, at this point. The high draft pick will come regardless, because this team is just way too young and inexperienced to compete for the playoffs at this point. But, I want to see these guys start to figure out how to win.

The Cavs have been in an incredible amount of close games this year and they just haven't figured out how to close, as a team. When they start doing that, I won't be complaining because of the draft. There is already a ton of talent on that roster.

I was hoping you'd say yes, but I figured you'd say no. I had the same thought about the Rockets before we got Harden: the high draft pick is nice, but with the amount of talent our teams have, having our young players learn how to win is priority.

Good game.

[TylerOO]

Harden is a true closer/clutch beast. Struggled first 3 quarters but came alive in the fourth and stabbed the Cavs in the heart with his play in the fourth. 7 steals?!?! M-V-P!

[soadrules]

No, I root for the Cavs to win every night, at this point. The high draft pick will come regardless, because this team is just way too young and inexperienced to compete for the playoffs right now. But, I want to see these guys start to figure out how to win.

The Cavs have been in an incredible amount of close games this year and they just haven't figured out how to close, as a team. When they start doing that, I won't be complaining because of the draft. There is already a ton of talent on that roster. When they are ready to compete for the playoffs, I'm sure the FO will begin reinforcing the roster with FAs and trades. The Cavs have one of the very best salary situations in the league.

They just aren't to that point quite yet. So, continue to get experience and grow together. Wins are a good thing at this point.

You say this, but the Rockets are in a similar position to the Cavs: young, (but slightly more experienced). By all means, this team (The Rockets) were pretty much formed this year, and are the youngest team in the league.

Yet they have a massively better record than the Cavs, why is this? Was Harden's one year with the Thunder enough to bring that much experience t the team? Coaching wise, you guys are still coached by Scott right? How has he been in relation to taking the team to the 'next' level. As far as I see, your team's only really 'good,' player is Irving (despite your thoughts on Thompson; I don't think he's good enough of a player that'll have a big impact in a deep running playoff team).

[RedBlackAttack]

You say this, but the Rockets are in a similar position to the Cavs: young, (but slightly more experienced). By all means, this team (The Rockets) were pretty much formed this year, and are the youngest team in the league.

Yet they have a massively better record than the Cavs, why is this? Was Harden's one year with the Thunder enough to bring that much experience t the team? Coaching wise, you guys are still coached by Scott right? How has he been in relation to taking the team to the 'next' level. As far as I see, your team's only really 'good,' player is Irving (despite your thoughts on Thompson; I don't think he's good enough of a player that'll have a big impact in a deep running playoff team).

They aren't even close to being in the same situation.

Here are the top seven players for each team in terms of minutes played tonight and their respective ages. They are listed based on number of minutes played.

James Harden - 23
Jeremy Lin - 24
Chandler Parsons - 24
Marcus Morris - 23
Omer Asik - 26
Carlos Delfino - 30
Patrick Peterson - 23

Kyrie Irving - 20
Tristan Thompson - 21
Tyler Zeller - 22
Dion Waiters - 21
Alonzo Gee - 25
CJ Miles - 25
Shaun Livingston - 27

Basically, the Cavs' best players are 22 and under. Let's not act as though the difference between 20 and 23 is nothing. Your best player is right now where our best player will be in three years.

There is a lot of growing to do in those critical three years.

And, I'll take what you have to say about the roster with a grain of salt, since you probably have watched the team play one time all season. Most of the Cavs' roster has simply not been in the NBA long enough to make a decision on the kind of player that they will become, even for those of us who watch every game.

Forgive me if I don't take your prognostications to heart. The Cavs are still in the rebuilding stage of using the draft, almost strictly. The Rockets, meanwhile, made some of the biggest free agency moves in the entire league this offseason with Harden and Asik. When the Cavs start attempting moves for major pieces, that is when you can start comparing the two situations.

[BlitzForce]

I don't have the luxury of replay, but I could have sworn his head made contact with his face...The angle was perfect, and I think I'm pretty objective.

But yeah, good game man. Wish you guys best of luck for the rest of the season except in our game on 3/22 :cheers:


He did - face mask to face will make anyone recoil :lol
Lin doesn't strike me as a flopper, he just plays hard, while Kyrie was getting soft fouls called in his favour...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c275/Kuku426/LinKyrie_zps8dea5c9d.png

[RedBlackAttack]

He did - face mask to face will make anyone recoil :lol
Lin doesn't strike me as a flopper, he just plays hard, while Kyrie was getting soft fouls called in his favour...

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c275/Kuku426/LinKyrie_zps8dea5c9d.png
I've never seen a less decisive picture in my life. :oldlol:

Kyrie's head is past Lin's face, not touching it. This was absolutely clear in several of the replays. Even Rockets fans admitted that the guy exaggerated the contact. Whatever makes you sleep better at night, though.

[TylerOO]

That play doesnt matter. The games over. Flop or no flop it aint gonna change the result .

[RedBlackAttack]

That play doesnt matter. The games over. Flop or no flop it aint gonna change the result .
True. But clear flop.

[TylerOO]

True. But clear flop.

I agree.

[soadrules]

They aren't even close to being in the same situation.

Here are the top seven players for each team in terms of minutes played tonight and their respective ages. They are listed based on number of minutes played.

James Harden - 23
Jeremy Lin - 24
Chandler Parsons - 24
Marcus Morris - 23
Omer Asik - 26
Carlos Delfino - 30
Patrick Peterson - 23

Kyrie Irving - 20
Tristan Thompson - 21
Tyler Zeller - 22
Dion Waiters - 21
Alonzo Gee - 25
CJ Miles - 25
Shaun Livingston - 27

Basically, the Cavs' best players are 22 and under. Let's not act as though the difference between 20 and 23 is nothing. Your best player is right now where our best player will be in three years.

There is a lot of growing to do in those critical three years.

And, I'll take what you have to say about the roster with a grain of salt, since you probably have watched the team play one time all season. Most of the Cavs' roster has simply not been in the NBA long enough to make a decision on the kind of player that they will become, even for those of us who watch every game.

Forgive me if I don't take your prognostications to heart.

I looked up the average age of the rosters is about all. I love how you got all defensive about it. I asked a simple question, wasn't threatening your team at all, was merely a question about the franchise and where it was heading. The Rockets made smart moves and assembled this team from pretty much out of nowhere starting this season. The fact that they're clicking so easily is pretty impressive with me.

All I remember is hearing the Rockets have the youngest team in the league. In addition, the Rockets best player has been in the league for 3 years (two longer than Irving), with Lin only being in his 3rd year. We've also got Asik in his 3rd year. I'm not threatening Irving; he's got all the potential in the world. He looks absolutely stunningly good, especially at only 20 years old. I have no doubt he'll grow to be one of the best players in those 2-3 years until he's 23. My main concern with the Cavs is their ability to build around him. Their options around him aren't hte greatest though. Verajao is decent, but if you want to make any sort of deep playoff run in the East (Especially with the Heat/Knicks maturing), you're going to have to do better than Verajao/whoever else. Obviously the Heat will be a lot older, so the Cavs aren't looking to contend immediately, but I haven't seen any sort of savy moves made by the GM ala Morey where he pulls a team out of thin air. Obviously they can, and they will be building through the draft, but you can only get lucky so many times. Lets face it as well; Cleveland isn't the 'hot spot' for free agents to go either. The FO will either have to convince a player that it's worth playing for the franchise and convince them they're going places or overpay a player/find someone underrated.

Also, you're right about not watching the Cavs much. I didn't really say much outside of Thompson, who didn't look as good as you were hyping him up to be. Yes he's young and he's got potential, but we can say that for lots of players every year.

[BlitzForce]

Push then face contact

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/3833/8601a18b87d6277f18c197f.gif

[HoopDreams247]

I've never seen a less decisive picture in my life. :oldlol:

Kyrie's head is past Lin's face, not touching it. This was absolutely clear in several of the replays. Even Rockets fans admitted that the guy exaggerated the contact. Whatever makes you sleep better at night, though.

Kyries face is clearly touching Lins face. Lins nose is being pushed upward. It's so obvious.

[TheAesirsFinest]

I looked up the average age of the rosters is about all. I love how you got all defensive about it. I asked a simple question, wasn't threatening your team at all, was merely a question about the franchise and where it was heading. The Rockets made smart moves and assembled this team from pretty much out of nowhere starting this season. The fact that they're clicking so easily is pretty impressive with me.

All I remember is hearing the Rockets have the youngest team in the league. In addition, the Rockets best player has been in the league for 3 years (two longer than Irving), with Lin only being in his 3rd year. We've also got Asik in his 3rd year. I'm not threatening Irving; he's got all the potential in the world. He looks absolutely stunningly good, especially at only 20 years old. I have no doubt he'll grow to be one of the best players in those 2-3 years until he's 23. My main concern with the Cavs is their ability to build around him. Their options around him aren't hte greatest though. Verajao is decent, but if you want to make any sort of deep playoff run in the East (Especially with the Heat/Knicks maturing), you're going to have to do better than Verajao/whoever else. Obviously the Heat will be a lot older, so the Cavs aren't looking to contend immediately, but I haven't seen any sort of savy moves made by the GM ala Morey where he pulls a team out of thin air. Obviously they can, and they will be building through the draft, but you can only get lucky so many times. Lets face it as well; Cleveland isn't the 'hot spot' for free agents to go either. The FO will either have to convince a player that it's worth playing for the franchise and convince them they're going places or overpay a player/find someone underrated.

Also, you're right about not watching the Cavs much. I didn't really say much outside of Thompson, who didn't look as good as you were hyping him up to be. Yes he's young and he's got potential, but we can say that for lots of players every year.

You think Lin is our best player? :biggums:

[TylerOO]

You think Lin is our best player? :biggums:
:facepalm Read that again.

[soadrules]

You think Lin is our best player? :biggums:

Was referring to Harden.

[RedBlackAttack]

I looked up the average age of the rosters is about all. I love how you got all defensive about it. I asked a simple question, wasn't threatening your team at all, was merely a question about the franchise and where it was heading. The Rockets made smart moves and assembled this team from pretty much out of nowhere starting this season. The fact that they're clicking so easily is pretty impressive with me.

All I remember is hearing the Rockets have the youngest team in the league.
I've said throughout this thread that I was impressed with what the Rockets are doing. However, equating where that team is in its development to where the Cavs are just doesn't make any sense to me.

Earlier in the season, I know the Cavs had the youngest composite roster in the league. I'm not positive if that is still the case and, to be totally honest, I'm not really interested enough to do the math. But, all you have to do is look at the main players for the Cavs right now and you can see how inexperienced and young the core part of the roster is.

For instance, the Rockets had one player who received minutes tonight under the age of 23, and he came off of the bench. Four of the Cavs top five players in terms of minutes tonight are 22 or younger.

If the Rockets had stuck with all of those rookies they had after the draft and not made moves for Harden/Asik/Lin, then they would be in a similar position to the Cavs.

Now? Not so much.


but I haven't seen any sort of savy moves made by the GM ala Morey where he pulls a team out of thin air.
The move that Chris Grant made to get Irving in the first place was about as savvy as humanly possible. And, since the team is still in its infancy of a massive roster explosion/rebuild, no one really has any idea how he'll do on the FA market. I can't stress this enough... The pieces are just beginning to be put into place.

I think the fact that the Cavs have been able to draft the pieces that they have (Irving, Thompson, Waters, Zeller), while continuing to cut salary and acquire assets like more draft picks down the road says a ton about how well this GM has done thus far... Only a couple years out from losing the best player in the NBA for a trade exception.


Obviously they can, and they will be building through the draft, but you can only get lucky so many times. Lets face it as well; Cleveland isn't the 'hot spot' for free agents to go either. The FO will either have to convince a player that it's worth playing for the franchise and convince them they're going places or overpay a player/find someone underrated.
Once again, they haven't attempted to make a free agency splash since the James years and that was under a completely different front office. Why don't we reserve judgement until they actually try to make moves, instead of assuming they can't.

The Cavs have one of the best salary situations in the entire league right now. Money can do a lot.


Also, you're right about not watching the Cavs much. I didn't really say much outside of Thompson, who didn't look as good as you were hyping him up to be. Yes he's young and he's got potential, but we can say that for lots of players every year.

I was hyping Tristan? I said he was starting to get it and that has been clearly visible in his numbers since Varejao's injury... And, he did it again tonight, dominating the boards every time he was on the floor. He had 8 offensive rebounds, for god's sake.

You are entitled to your own opinion and you can call me defensive or whatever. You had to expect a response when you quoted my post to point out to me that the Rockets are way better than the Cavs at the same stage of rebuild and that the only good player on the team is Irving, though.

[pnyozzzoo]

The rockets are not that young, they are young as in not entering their prime, but not fresh out of draft. Most ppl call them youngest is factoring DNP rookies' age as well as most importantly in experience. b4 this year

Lin has start 20 something games?
Harden has started 6 games?
Parsons more than half a season
4 spot both non
asik non

NBA mileage wise Lin is truly about that number coz he was a garbage time player. Harden is actually a experienced manu starter for more than 1 year with deep play off experience. Asik play decent backup minutes and been deep in play off too. 3 and 4 are true to their numbers.

Basically Harden is like a successful top draft gone through a very good program got as much as he could possibly hope to get in 3 years. lead 3 huge underdogs in new roles(lin parsons asik) and a couple good role players in PF spot.

Fresh out of draft team like cavs cannot compete for western playoff spot yet. Rockets are mildly seasoned.

[brantonli]

My mind is now blown:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f17b69d93da44b3236a21cf357b11b08/tumblr_mg6iwfxCvw1qis916o1_1280.jpg

[Graviton]

My mind is now blown:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f17b69d93da44b3236a21cf357b11b08/tumblr_mg6iwfxCvw1qis916o1_1280.jpg
The Dragonborn is among us! FAS DAR UK!

[strifed169]

My mind is now blown:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f17b69d93da44b3236a21cf357b11b08/tumblr_mg6iwfxCvw1qis916o1_1280.jpg

I'm stoned out of my mind right now so went on google image to confirm it wasn't a shoop...

http://www.planet-9.com/attachments/cayman-boxster-modifications/19452d1311105483-cayman-r-style-stripe-installed-mother-god.jpg

[Xsatyr]

Late reply...

Watched the game today and Lin took a shot to the face on the "flop." He sold the call though.

Wow...


My mind is now blown:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/f17b69d93da44b3236a21cf357b11b08/tumblr_mg6iwfxCvw1qis916o1_1280.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

Late reply...

Watched the game today and Lin took a shot to the face on the "flop." He sold the call though.

Wow...
No he didn't.

[BlitzForce]

This video shows he got headbutted, you can see him reaching for his face at 0:25 as he falls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xkts_GEj_M

[Nick Young]

Kyrie vs Linsanity, battle for the leagues top young PG:bowdown:

[RedBlackAttack]

This video shows he got headbutted, you can see him reaching for his face at 0:25 as he falls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xkts_GEj_M
Give me a break. :oldlol:

Why are we still talking about this? From the video, you can clearly see he WASN'T "headbutted." I have no problem with the foul call, because the arm was extended, but that was an incredible amount of embellishment by Lin... Also known as a flop.