Why people think players are more athletic today

[ralph_i_el]

Usually you see two sides to this debate:

Idiots-"Players are way more athletic nutrition training evolution blah blah blah"
Everyone else- "That's just turrible"

But just by watching you can tell that there are more hyper athletic players in the league right now than in earlier eras. People have struggled to explain this phenomenon but I think I've come up with an pretty decent explanation

lets compare the population in the US in 1980 (227 million) and today (~315 million) for a difference of around 88 million which is almost a 40% increase in population.

If we assume that the same % of population is inclined to play basketball in both time periods (and I think it would be fair to say that the sport is more popular now than it was then but I have no way of quantifying that), then there are 40% more people total playing the sport. Even if the number of freak athlete's per 10000 people remained the same, that still accounts for 40% more freak athlete's competing for spots in the NBA today than there were in the 1980's.


40% More people= 40% more MJs, Lebrons, and russel westbrooks


this reconciles that fact that there is no way humans have evolved significantly over the period of time that the NBA has been in existence with the obvious fact that the NBA is more athletic now than ever.

[andremiller07]

Because as time goes on PED's are getting better and used more and more accessible to all.

[red1]

Usually you see two sides to this debate:

Idiots-"Players are way more athletic nutrition training evolution blah blah blah"
Everyone else- "That's just turrible"

But just by watching you can tell that there are more hyper athletic players in the league right now than in earlier eras. People have struggled to explain this phenomenon but I think I've come up with an pretty decent explanation

lets compare the population in the US in 1980 (227 million) and today (~315 million) for a difference of around 88 million which is almost a 40% increase in population.

If we assume that the same % of population is inclined to play basketball in both time periods (and I think it would be fair to say that the sport is more popular now than it was then but I have no way of quantifying that), then there are 40% more people total playing the sport. Even if the number of freak athlete's per 10000 people remained the same, that still accounts for 40% more freak athlete's competing for spots in the NBA today than there were in the 1980's.


40% More people= 40% more MJs, Lebrons, and russel westbrooks
you have a bigger talent pool nowadays and athletic ability is an obvious advantage so it figures that you will have more athletic players

[BMOGEFan]

no.

back then, people use fundamentals to play, so its not as flashy and cool as it is now.

with the lack of fundamentals in this league, people rely on players doing flashy moves. flashy moves appear to be more atheletic. but they fail to realize that it takes major athleticism to be fundamentally sound.

[ralph_i_el]

you have a bigger talent pool nowadays and athletic ability is an obvious advantage so it figures that you will have more athletic players

yeah that's pretty much what i'm getting at

[CavaliersFTW]

http://youtu.be/NakXs0mEdAA?t=59s

players got more athletic? really?

seems to me like people just like the way it sounds cause it makes it seem like we've "progressed" so they keep saying it. If there is any difference at all, it's likely due to PED's and such, and the difference in how it effects the quality of basketball is likely insignificant

[red1]

no.

back then, people use fundamentals to play, so its not as flashy and cool as it is now.

with the lack of fundamentals in this league, people rely on players doing flashy moves. flashy moves appear to be more atheletic. but they fail to realize that it takes major athleticism to be fundamentally sound.
Another retarded post from this dimwit. Are you ever right about anything?

[ralph_i_el]

http://youtu.be/NakXs0mEdAA?t=59s

players got more athletic? really?

seems to me like people just like the way it sounds cause it makes it seem like we've "progressed" so they keep saying it

I'm trying to say that players didn't get more athletic, we just have more athletic players because there are more players in general.

[BMOGEFan]

Another retarded post from this dimwit. Are you ever right about anything?

You do know that players are not as fundamentally sound as before because none of them learn how to do it when they are young.

Do you think someone as dumb as javale mcgee would make a squad back in the 80s? probably not.

so these super athletic players wouldn't even be showcased.

i'm beginning to think you don't even have pubs yet.

[SyRyanYang]

http://youtu.be/NakXs0mEdAA?t=59s

players got more athletic? really?

seems to me like people just like the way it sounds cause it makes it seem like we've "progressed" so they keep saying it. If there is any difference at all, it's likely due to PED's and such, and the difference in how it effects the quality of basketball is likely insignificant


Another retarded post from this dimwit. Are you ever right about anything?

You quoted wrong post bro

[red1]

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen.


no.

back then, people use fundamentals to play, so its not as flashy and cool as it is now.

with the lack of fundamentals in this league, people rely on players doing flashy moves. flashy moves appear to be more atheletic. but they fail to realize that it takes major athleticism to be fundamentally sound.


but they fail to realize that it takes major athleticism to be fundamentally sound.

How are you going to explain your way out of this?

[BMOGEFan]

You quoted wrong post bro

That guy is just that damn dumb.

He's going to say that Dwight Howard is more athletic than kareem or wilt.

The athleticism is most likely comparable between the 3 players. However the two with fundamentals wouldn't need to rely on their athleticism to achieve their end results. Thats why it appears they are less athletic.

[red1]

You do know that players are not as fundamentally sound as before because none of them learn how to do it when they are young.

Do you think someone as dumb as javale mcgee would make a squad back in the 80s? probably not.

so these super athletic players wouldn't even be showcased.

i'm beginning to think you don't even have pubs yet.
You are so goddamn dumb holy f*ck it just doesnt stop. You really think mcgee won't make an nba team in the 80s? And no I don't have "pubs" you f*gg*t

[red1]

That guy is just that damn dumb.

He's going to say that Dwight Howard is more athletic than kareem or wilt.

The athleticism is most likely comparable between the 3 players. However the two with fundamentals wouldn't need to rely on their athleticism to achieve their end results. Thats why it appears they are less athletic.
said who? you are just making shit up

[BMOGEFan]

This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen.





How are you going to explain your way out of this?

are you saying you don't need to be athletic to be fundamentally sound?

God i swear you are an idiot.

[BMOGEFan]

You are so goddamn dumb holy f*ck it just doesnt stop. You really think mcgee won't make an nba team in the 80s? And no I don't have "pubs" you f*gg*t

ohhh relying on grammar/spelling error attacks now....fail

[red1]

are you saying you don't need to be athletic to be fundamentally sound?

God i swear you are an idiot.
Thats exactly what I am saying you idiot. I know 10 year olds who play in leagues where they get taught skills from an early age. Fundamentals have nothing to do with athleticism. You think tim duncan today is athletic?

[BMOGEFan]

Thats exactly what I am saying you idiot. I know 10 year olds who play in leagues where they get taught skills from an early age. Fundamentals have nothing to do with athleticism. You think tim duncan today is athletic?
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[ralph_i_el]

are you saying you don't need to be athletic to be fundamentally sound?

God i swear you are an idiot.

plenty of unathletic players are fundamentally sound :confusedshrug:

Zbo, Nash, dirk, andre miller, jared dudley, kevin Love just off the top of my head. Obviously they're athletic compared to the average person but by nba standards they aren't. Plenty of nice players are not athletic but are fundemental

[red1]

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:
LMAO ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW?

[red1]

fundamentals have NOTHING to do with athleticism

[BMOGEFan]

fundamentals have NOTHING to do with athleticism

say that again with a straight face..

you think you can just pull off exceptional footwork without body control?

where do you think body control comes from? your mind?

[tmacattack33]

One thing that I think is making a difference in the perception of what's happening is that today's players are more muscular and toned, with ridiculous 6% body fat or whatever, and just look more athletic than the older players.

That can be quantified and backed up by statistics too, as they have an average height and weight stat for the NBA for every year and it has indeed increased.

And i think it has increased because lifting weights has become the norm for basketball players.

Back in the day, I believe some people still thought that lifting could throw off your jump shot and mess with your coordination. Those ideas slowly went away in the 80's or so.

[ralph_i_el]

One thing that I think is making a difference in the perception of what's happening is that today's players are more muscular and just look more athletic than the older players.

That can be quantified and backed up by statistics too, as they have an average height and weight stat for the NBA for every year and it has indeed increased.

And i think it has increased because lifting weights has become the norm for basketball players.

Back in the day, I believe some people still thought that lifting could throw off your jump shot and mess with your coordination. Those ideas slowly went away in the 80's or so.

average height has decreased since the 80's. average weight is slightly


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_league_average_height,_weight,_age_and_playing _experience

[tmacattack33]

average height has decreased since the 80's. average weight is slightly higher

Oh okay, yeah.

[red1]

say that again with a straight face..

you think you can just pull off exceptional footwork without body control?

where do you think body control comes from? your mind?

fundamentals have NOTHING to do with athleticism
You are a joke if you think one needs great athleticism to be fundamentally sound. Even the most basic athlete can have complete mastery over fundamentals. Your argument was that players in the past were more athletic because they were more fundamentally sound. That is one of the single dumbest things I have read on this board.

[BMOGEFan]

You are a joke if you think one needs great athleticism to be fundamentally sound. Even the most basic athlete can have complete mastery over fundamentals. Your argument was that players in the past were more athletic because they were more fundamentally sound. That is one of the single dumbest things I have read on this board.

Have the most athletic guy in the league...pull off a dream shake. See if he can control his body to pull off that move. I'm betting he can't.

You do know that jumping isn't the only indication of athleticism.

[red1]

Have the most athletic guy in the league...pull off a dream shake. See if he can control his body to pull off that move. I'm betting he can't.

You do know that jumping isn't the only indication of athleticism.
my god just shut the f*ck up already

[BMOGEFan]

You are a joke if you think one needs great athleticism to be fundamentally sound. Even the most basic athlete can have complete mastery over fundamentals. Your argument was that players in the past were more athletic because they were more fundamentally sound. That is one of the single dumbest things I have read on this board.

What is your ideals of fundamentals?

Boxing out? keeping your hands up? timing?

You do know fundamentals extend all the way to footwork, adjustment of body in the air, and other body control factors.

its pretty obvious you don't know that. I dont' think you ever played a sport in your life.

[rhowen4]

LMAO ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW?:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[BMOGEFan]

my god just shut the f*ck up already

because you don't know shit.. get the **** out.

[Soundwave]

I think there's more emphasis on hitting the weight room these days from an earlier age and getting on supplements (and yes, possibly PEDs).

But generally speaking I think athleticism in the NBA has sorta capped off since the mid-late 1990s.

Clyde Drexler, Shawn Kemp, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Shaquille O' Neal, Dennis Rodman, Penny Hardaway (pre-injury), etc. are more athletic than anyone at their position nowadays with maybe the exception of LeBron.

[LT Ice Cream]

My dad who played college hoops says people throw down nastier dunks now because people are more motivated. We see these things happen every day on tv and youtube whereas it used to be more rare in the 70's.
Now anybody can watch videos of thousands of guys throwing down nasty dunks which makes people want to practice more.

[Myth]

I believe the average NBA player is more athletic these days, but the peak athletes are the same quality of athletes.

[red1]

because you don't know shit.. get the **** out.
:roll: do you even know what the dream shake is?

[eliteballer]

Players train more to develop athletic ability(ie plyometrics for jumping and weightlifting in general which people used to say hurt basketball ability). Look at Barkley, dude said he would jump back and forth over a fence everyday and he was short and fat(for his position) but a powerful leaper. Also, handles are more advanced which help mobility with the ball, and the shoes are lighter and less cumbersome.

[FKAri]

http://youtu.be/NakXs0mEdAA?t=59s

players got more athletic? really?

seems to me like people just like the way it sounds cause it makes it seem like we've "progressed" so they keep saying it. If there is any difference at all, it's likely due to PED's and such, and the difference in how it effects the quality of basketball is likely insignificant

That guy in today's league would be a poor man's Erik Spoelstra.

[BMOGEFan]

Players train more to develop athletic ability(ie plyometrics for jumping and weightlifting in general which people used to say hurt basketball ability). Look at Barkley, dude said he would jump back and forth over a fence everyday and he was short and fat(for his position) but a powerful leaper. Also, handles are more advanced which help mobility with the ball, and the shoes are lighter and less cumbersome.

Handles are not more advance...people get away with travel and palming more thats all. They were actually dribbling the right way back then, ugly but the right way.

[ralph_i_el]

Have the most athletic guy in the league...pull off a dream shake. See if he can control his body to pull off that move. I'm betting he can't.

You do know that jumping isn't the only indication of athleticism.

but you just said that you had to be athletic to master fundamentals like good footwork. Wouldnt the most athletic player have the best dream shake?

now i know you're trolling. I thought you were just retarded before

[BMOGEFan]

but you just said that you had to be athletic to master fundamentals like good footwork. Wouldnt the most athletic player have the best dream shake?

now i know you're trolling. I thought you were just retarded before

and thats why i said players are NOT more athletic than they were in the past.

People just think current players are more athletic because their jumping out of the roof ability is much more showcased than something like the dream shake.

[Poetry]

But just by watching you can tell that there are more hyper athletic players in the league right now than in earlier eras. People have struggled to explain this phenomenon but I think I've come up with an pretty decent explanation

You see, i don't know what you're talking about.

How do you explain away these athletic 1980's brothers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1EEsgoITE

I get the feeling you just haven't seen that much basketball.

[BMOGEFan]

You see, i don't know what you're talking about.

How do you explain away these athletic 1980's brothers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm1EEsgoITE

I get the feeling you just haven't seen that much basketball.

Thats why Red1 and him think alike.

[ZaaaaaH]

I believe the average NBA player is more athletic these days, but the peak athletes are the same quality of athletes.

Yes Sir !

Tell those 2 "dimwits"

[Cladyclad]

I think there's more emphasis on hitting the weight room these days from an earlier age and getting on supplements (and yes, possibly PEDs).

But generally speaking I think athleticism in the NBA has sorta capped off since the mid-late 1990s.

Clyde Drexler, Shawn Kemp, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Shaquille O' Neal, Dennis Rodman, Penny Hardaway (pre-injury), etc. are more athletic than anyone at their position nowadays with maybe the exception of LeBron.

Iggy
Rose
Westbrook
Kg
Cousins
Dwight
Blake
Bron
Durant

[andremiller07]

Iggy
Rose
Westbrook
Kg
Cousins
Dwight
Blake
Bron
Durant

Cousins is mobile and has good body control but hes not what you would classify a good athlete. Jermaine O'neal right now has more spring and quickness than him most of Cousins game is based on skill/size his athletic ability is average at best.

Hes not in the same catagory as any of those other guys or anywhere near.

[Cladyclad]

Cousins is mobile and has good body control but hes not what you would classify a good athlete. Jermaine O'neal right now has more spring and quickness than him most of Cousins game is based on skill/size his athletic ability is average at best.

Hes not in the same catagory as any of those other guys or anywhere near.


Cousins quickness at his size is special. Body control fits da athletic category. Its only a handful of players who got the combination tools as him.

[JerryWest]

Because they are :confusedshrug:

[Inactive]

Usually you see two sides to this debate:

Idiots-"Players are way more athletic nutrition training evolution blah blah blah"
Everyone else- "That's just turrible"

But just by watching you can tell that there are more hyper athletic players in the league right now than in earlier eras. People have struggled to explain this phenomenon but I think I've come up with an pretty decent explanation

lets compare the population in the US in 1980 (227 million) and today (~315 million) for a difference of around 88 million which is almost a 40% increase in population.

If we assume that the same % of population is inclined to play basketball in both time periods (and I think it would be fair to say that the sport is more popular now than it was then but I have no way of quantifying that), then there are 40% more people total playing the sport. Even if the number of freak athlete's per 10000 people remained the same, that still accounts for 40% more freak athlete's competing for spots in the NBA today than there were in the 1980's.


40% More people= 40% more MJs, Lebrons, and russel westbrooks
I think it's worth distinguishing between these statements:

"NBA players are more athletic today."

"There are more athletic players in the NBA today."

Obviously, if there are more athletic players in the NBA, then the average NBA player will be more athletic, but I think what most of care about is whether or not the elite athletes are any more athletic. IMO they aren't.

[brain drain]

I think it's worth distinguishing between these statements:

"NBA players are more athletic today."

"There are more athletic players in the NBA today."

Obviously, if there are more athletic players in the NBA, then the average NBA player will be more athletic, but I think what most of care about is whether or not the elite athletes are any more athletic. IMO they aren't.

I think there are four aspects at play
#1 distribution of natural athletic ability in the population (genetics) - should probably be pretty constant, but the absolute top freaks are very rare
#2 Size of the talent pool - steadily increasing, because world population increases constantly (7 billion now vs 3 billion in 1960) and because NBA gets players from more different countries than int used to
#3 Training methods, nutrition etc - have become better
#4 Dirty tricks (doping) - don't know

So, since #1 is constant and #2 and #3 have gotten better it's only logical that general athletic ability is up.
However, since the very best athletes are very rare, there are probably too few data points to measure or compare athletic talent at the Wilt / Jordan / Shaq / Vince Carter / Lebron level, especially since the type of athleticism is different between these players.

But if you look at things like track and field, where comparisons can be made much more easily, it's pretty clear that the performances have gotten better over time. There are a few records that held for a pretty long time (like Bob Beamon's long jump record, or Sotomayor's high jump record, which is now 20 years old, but the general tendency is that there's improvement over time.

Now here comes the reality check: if you compare the results of the Olympic Games 1984 with 2012 and look at what place winning performance in 1984 would've gotten in 2012, the result is this:

100m: 8th place
200m: 3rd
400m: 2nd
800m: 6th
4*100m: 3rd
4*400m: 3rd
High Jump: 2nd
Long Jump: 1st


So overall, the 1984 winners would be somewhat behind in many cases, but still be competitive - and in one case even win the gold medal.

Now here's another check: where would the 4th place from 1984 have landed in 2012. The result:
100m : - (not in top 8)
200m: 7th
400m: 4th
800m: -
4*100: -
4*400: 4th
High Jump: 3rd
Long Jump: 2nd (tie)

[Dragonyeuw]

no.

but they fail to realize that it takes major athleticism to be fundamentally sound.

Like Tim Duncan?

[Money 23]

I think on average the athleticism might be slightly greater, but it's definitely a myth.

[Dragonyeuw]

I think on average the athleticism might be slightly greater, but it's definitely a myth.

Yes, there's probably 'more' athletic guys today in terms of numbers, but guys like Jordan, Drexler, Kemp,Nique, Larry Nance would still be considered athletic standouts today. Hell, Spud Webb at 5'7 with a 46" vertical? Even 'no names' like Robert Pack and Harold Miner aka Baby Jordan? Isiah Rider? Penny and Grant Hill were and would be considered great athletes today as well before injuries impacted them. Orlando Shaq was an incredible athlete especially at his size, Kevin Johnson with that first step, Hakeem was an amazing athlete with that coordination and fluidity of movement, lots of names I'm forgetting but there were plenty of great athletes back in the day.

[Money 23]

Yes, there's probably 'more' athletic guys today in terms of numbers, but guys like Jordan, Drexler, Kemp,Nique, Larry Nance would still be considered athletic standouts today. Hell, Spud Webb at 5'7 with a 46" vertical? Even 'no names' like Robert Pack and Harold Miner aka Baby Jordan? Isiah Rider? Penny and Grant Hill were and would be considered great athletes today as well before injuries impacted them. Orlando Shaq was an incredible athlete especially at his size, Kevin Johnson with that first step, Hakeem was an amazing athlete with that coordination and fluidity of movement, lots of names I'm forgetting but there were plenty of great athletes back in the day.Oh absolutely. I don't believe the athleticism even compared to the late 70s / early 80s is somehow super advanced. It's a myth people latch onto. Elite athletes are the same across eras. In fact, I think players today have gained too much mass for bball. I see players getting winded way too easily compared to past eras. I also don't think that a slight increase in more versatile athleticism (players are drafted since the late 90s on potential not experience) makes the game today better.

Because to coincide with small, incremental advantages on averages in athleticism league wide. Bball intelligence and skill is at a much greater disadvantage than there is in the gap in athleticism across eras. Take that to the bank.

[jstern]

I don't think they are noticeably more athletic, rather than people are very superficial and dumb. They might see an 80s athlete jumping from the free throw line, but their minds get clouded by the fact that they're wearing short shorts and that the image quality just looks much more superior with today's HD. Then there's the tendency to be amazed by the moment, and somewhat thinking that life begin the moment they were born. For some it's hard to imagine that things like even a layup, fadeaway existed before they were born.

I remember watching NBA black and white footage from 1968, and it just looked so primitive to me, then I saw some 1968 footage in color, and wow, the players just seemed so much better.

Many times I've heard teenagers say that Kobe was more athletic than Jordan, their perception is clouded.

[joshwake]

It has more to do with style than anything. Players today just mimic what they saw from the greats. Some style comes across more athletic than others. Blame MJ.

[3243]

I think there's more emphasis on hitting the weight room these days from an earlier age and getting on supplements (and yes, possibly PEDs).

But generally speaking I think athleticism in the NBA has sorta capped off since the mid-late 1990s.

Clyde Drexler, Shawn Kemp, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Shaquille O' Neal, Dennis Rodman, Penny Hardaway (pre-injury), etc. are more athletic than anyone at their position nowadays with maybe the exception of LeBron.


The players whom you mentioned as examples were not only highly athletic, but they were also more fundamentally sound than today's NBA players. Most of these guys played four years of college ball, and even Shaq and Penny got two years of college coaching. Only Kemp was "one-and-done" like so many of today's NBA players, who are athletic freaks but lack technique and knowledge of how to play basketball.

[kNicKz]

I think advances in Kinesiology are being seriously underplayed here. Ever wonder why the NFL has a record broken every other week? I think the medical treatment available makes the biggest difference. Guys can play for a lot longer now, giving us bigger samples of their playing, which is why a lot of people's top 25 are 80 percent players from 1985-up

[Mach_3]

Including everything else people have been saying in here players today have more chances to showcase their athleticism due to rule changes and such

[jongib369]

Because as time goes on PED's are getting better and used more and more accessible to all.
http://www.famousfootwear.com/ProductImages/shoes_ia34089.jpg

?

[Cali Syndicate]

say that again with a straight face..

you think you can just pull off exceptional footwork without body control?

where do you think body control comes from? your mind?

Coordination.