Why I'm still not sold on this team

[Clutch]

Tonight's game just showed what I'm most feared of,the Knicks can't handle the pressure.

We lost every physical game we played this season.
It all started with the road game in Memphis. They were very physical,refs made a few suspicious calls and the Knicks just cracked allowing the Grizzlies to create a big lead by just shooting free throws.
Chicago punked us twice too by playing physical basketball. The one at MSG was really painful. It was a chippy game,something like tonight and the Knicks collapsed. Tyson and Noah almost had a fight.
Then you have this game against Boston. KG was trash talking,Melo was frustrated and even though he hasn't been shooting well tonight he started to force shots.

It's ok to lose a few of the games like that in the regular season because our record is pretty good but in the playoffs this will become a real problem.
Teams play physical in the playoffs. Players like KG will try to get into your head and I'm very worried the Knicks won't react well.

Let's be honest,we have a team full of players that can't keep their focus and stay calm.
You have Melo going after KG and often trying to beat the other team by himself when he gets mad.
Then you have Tyson Chandler who is first to crack when things aren't going well,often throwing elbows (to Asik and Noah this season,I probably forgot someone too).
Amare punches fire extinguishers when things go bad.
I won't even bother talking about Sheed getting mad :lol
Felton (even though he didn't play tonight) has the same problem as Melo,trying to prove himself too much.
We even saw Prigioni getting a technical last night :roll: :roll: :roll:
J.R. is a headcase and he seems like the calmest guy out there this season,that shows you how bad the rest of them are :oldlol:

My point is this team is mentally weak,most of our players are either headcases or can't handle the pressure. The only guy I can trust in this kind of situation is Kidd. He never loses his calm and he always plays smart,no matter how physical opponent is or how much he's trying to get into his head.
Rest of the team has a short fuse,especially Melo and Tyson.

We are probably the 2nd best team in the East but this stuff will happen regularly in the playoffs. If we can't somehow fix our problems and continue to play poorly under pressure we aren't going far.
No matter against who we play,if they play us physical there's a great chance we're losing that game.

This is a real issue and we can't even count on advancing the 1st round if we're going to crack under pressure every single time. This is why I really want to avoid both Chicago and Boston in the 1st round. Even the Nets play very physical against us.

Anyone disagrees ?

[ClutchOver9000]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Knicks have a low threshold for keeping their composure/poise. Bad sign. Especially when it comes to ref treatment. That is something you cannot influence, you simply have to adjust, roll w/ the punches, and play w/ the hand you're dealt.

BUT....with that said...when it comes to trash talk...I can't put too much fault on ppl who go after KG w/ the below the belt things he says. If anyone deserved to get decked its him. One of the best big men the league has ever seen but man that guy is a massive ****.

[Clutch]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Knicks have a low threshold for keeping their composure/poise. Bad sign. Especially when it comes to ref treatment. That is something you cannot influence, you simply have to adjust, roll w/ the punches, and play w/ the hand you're dealt.

BUT....with that said...when it comes to trash talk...I can't put too much fault on ppl who go after KG w/ the below the belt things he says. If anyone deserved to get decked its him. One of the best big men the league has ever seen but man that guy is a massive ****.
Yeah,I hate KG. I would have enjoyed watching Melo kicking his ass but for the sake of the Knicks it's better it didn't end up with a fight. Melo is still probably going to get suspended for waiting him after the game.

Melo should have played way smarter but I can't really blame him. He's been terrific for us this season,he's allowed to have a game off.

[franchize]

I agree partially. Melo needs to do a much better job at channeling his emotion. That being said, I didn't have a problem with Melo's shot selection last night. Most of those shots are ones he hits. Furthermore, let's face it, he was getting hammered and he should have gone to the line WAY more. Our record has been such because of Melo's and JR's aggressiveness on offense. Melo can't afford to be passive and at the end of the day, when guys refuse to shoot on a nightly basis, unless it's a wide open 3, someone has to shoot the ball. I've been since last year. We have too many guys who can't create their own shot. We have too many guys waiting around the perimeter for wide open looks.

[Clutch]

I agree partially. Melo needs to do a much better job at channeling his emotion. That being said, I didn't have a problem with Melo's shot selection last night. Most of those shots are ones he hits. Furthermore, let's face it, he was getting hammered and he should have gone to the line WAY more. Our record has been such because of Melo's and JR's aggressiveness on offense. Melo can't afford to be passive and at the end of the day, when guys refuse to shoot on a nightly basis, unless it's a wide open 3, someone has to shoot the ball. I've been since last year. We have too many guys who can't create their own shot. We have too many guys waiting around the perimeter for wide open looks.
His shot selection was fine until he got mad. Then late in the 4th he rushed some shots. I can't really blame him. He's won so many games for us this season that it would be stupid to attack him for one bad game. Everyone has off games. It happens. But he and the rest of the team needs to be better at keeping their composure.

And I agree about us having too many guys just standing behind the 3 point line. That's where we miss Felton. He didn't really shoot well before he went down (part of it because he was playing injured) but he wasn't turning the ball over (the thing Knicks now do more often) and he you needed to defend his penetration.
Prigioni and Kidd are easy to defend. Kidd can only shoot three and Prigioni can only pass.
Even with Felton shooting a low percentage he still gets Tyson involved with the alley oops and he kicks out the ball to shooters. Right now the Knicks offense is just passing around the perimeter and then taking a contested three.
The only guy that can drive to the hole is Melo. Maybe J.R. too. And that's it. Brewer can't even make a layup,Prigioni is too afraid to shoot and Kidd is useless when he steps into the arc.

What I was going to say with this thread is that the Knicks have to control their emotions better or they will pay for that in the playoffs. It will be costly,very costly.
You can get away with a few lost physical games over the course of regular season. But in the playoffs every game is important and losing composure can be deadly.
Forget about ECF and beating Miami. We need to overcome this problem if we want to get out of the 1st round.

Bulls are coming to town on Friday,we'll probably see another very physical game. It'll be interesting too see how will the Knicks respond.

[Rameek]

I disagree... This wouldnt be the reason I'm not sold on the team.
Melo and Tyson cry all the time over calls. They havent earned the reputation to get calls at this moment.
Now opponents know they can get under these guys skin. Thats all that will happen from this point on pushing there buttons.

Remember though how often will this really happen to Melo considering most NBA guys are buddy buddy. Same agents, same training facilities, olympic team, aau team blah blah blah.....

Make the playoffs first but yes they need more composure. I said in the other thread Melo hurt the team.

[NA2126]

I'm just glad STAT didn't do anything stupid (i.e. slap or punch a fire extinguisher). He seemed level-headed out there and I'm glad his game is slowly starting to pick up again.

I would, however, love to see someone (not a Knick) deck KG in the mouth full force. He runs his mouth way too much, for someone who's proven to be a bitch over and over again when it's actually time to throw down. Ever since his T'Wolves days, this guy has been a pure bitch who only runs his mouth.

[knickscity]

That isn't why I would not be sold on the team.

Most NBA teams aren't physical anyway.

I'm not sold because it's only been about 30 games, and there is about 50 more to go.

I just had a friend of mine at work just say, "you know all the teams know what to do now?"

I'm like "come on, most NBA players don't want to mix it up, they'd rather flop".

This situation is of zero concern to me.

Knicks win 5 straight playing good defense, and Melo's MVP play, and everyone will be right back on the wagon.

[Scoooter]

You should all feel stupid for ripping me when I said Paul Pierce is better than Melo. He's a smooth criminal.

[Clutch]

You should all feel stupid for ripping me when I said Paul Pierce is better than Melo. He's a smooth criminal.
So Melo has one bad game and all of a sudden Paul Pierce is better than him ?
Melo has been a top5 player in the league so far this season,Pierce is nowhere close to it.

Sorry but your hate is reaching the whole new level.

[Scoooter]

So Melo has one bad game and all of a sudden Paul Pierce is better than him ?
Melo has been a top5 player in the league so far this season,Pierce is nowhere close to it.

Sorry but your hate is reaching the whole new level.
No no no, you've got it all wrong, as usual. I think the first time you could definitely say Melo was better than Pierce is this season, in which Melo thusfar should be top 3 in MVP voting. But a lot of people, especially here, were saying before this season that Melo was clearly better than PIerce, and I never saw that. I still think Pierce has an edge in certain intangibles that makes him so dangerous. And I think his game is more polished, and less reliant on athleticism than Melo's, and I tend to award more points for stuff like that.

This game highlighted the differences between the two, and obviously did so in Paul Pierce's favor; but obviously it would be stupid to say PP is having a better season than Carmelo.

And to be honest, I think this is the most exciting small forward matchup we could get in the playoffs, barring a NYK/Thunder finals.

[knickscity]

Even though I wont say Pierce is better than Melo, Pierce certainly was able to get his game on track to take over, something Melo never could.

Both players were in the same kind of foul trouble so that cannot be used as an excuse.

Pierce refocused on the game, Melo just did not.

[Rameek]

Even though I wont say Pierce is better than Melo, Pierce certainly was able to get his game on track to take over, something Melo never could.

Both players were in the same kind of foul trouble so that cannot be used as an excuse.

Pierce refocused on the game, Melo just did not.
Your misunderstood him. He is saying until this year Paul Pierce was arguably equal or better than Melo. I would say this I agree with some of the intangibles The Truth was better.

[franchize]

Pierce got better talent around him. Period. All the stuff they said about Melo, they used to say about Pierce. Even worse. (He's never in great shape. He's a ball hog. He's not a leader. Yada Yada Yada. He's not a winner) Then he got Garnett and Rondo and Allen. Now, all of a sudden he has all this leadership and intangibles that he didn't have before? No. He just started winning because his team didn't suck anymore.

[Rameek]

Pierce got better talent around him. Period. All the stuff they said about Melo, they used to say about Pierce. Even worse. (He's never in great shape. He's a ball hog. He's not a leader. Yada Yada Yada. He's not a winner) Then he got Garnett and Rondo and Allen. Now, all of a sudden he has all this leadership and intangibles that he didn't have before? No. He just started winning because his team didn't suck anymore.
I disagree with the leadership and he's been clutch. His shape is his shape it's his look not chiseled neither was melo.

[franchize]

I disagree with the leadership and he's been clutch. His shape is his shape it's his look not chiseled neither was melo.

O I'm not saying I agreed with the criticisms. I'm just saying everything they accused Melo of, they accused Pierce of. I was a fan of Pierce since he was in HS. I still have the McD's All American game on tape (Best All American class ever IMO).

[knickscity]

Your misunderstood him. He is saying until this year Paul Pierce was arguably equal or better than Melo. I would say this I agree with some of the intangibles The Truth was better.
I'd say they were pretty equal, wont say better.

[Rameek]

Oh I am not defending the dudes assertions. I just think the only small piece I thought was a little in The Truth's favor was what I said.

I like the original topic anyway!

[franchize]

I guess my issue...well not issue but question with the original topic is... What are we supposed to be sold on? The Knicks being legit? The Knicks being a title contender? The Knicks being as good as they seem? The Knicks being a playoff team? The Knicks being different from last year? Maybe if I knew what expectation we were referring to, I'd get the original premise of this topic even better because my answer to each one of those questions differ. For instance, I think we are legit but I don't think we will compete for a title this year.

[Clutch]

I guess my issue...well not issue but question with the original topic is... What are we supposed to be sold on? The Knicks being legit? The Knicks being a title contender? The Knicks being as good as they seem? The Knicks being a playoff team? The Knicks being different from last year? Maybe if I knew what expectation we were referring to, I'd get the original premise of this topic even better because my answer to each one of those questions differ. For instance, I think we are legit but I don't think we will compete for a title this year.
I don't expect us to compete for the title either.

Sold on what ? Sold on us being a good playoff team that will advance all the way to the ECF and at least put up a fight against Miami.

I'm still not confident we can do it. Team looks too mentally weak and we aren't really that more talented than other teams in the East besides Miami.
Heat were also mentally weak in their 1st year but they were so much more talented than anyone else in the East that they made it all the way to the Finals.
I don't think that's the case with the Knicks so that mental weaknesses can be deadly in the playoffs.

Damn it,I'm not even sure we can go out of the 1st round. Depends on who we play against. I'm pretty confident we could beat Indiana,Milwaukee,Atlanta or Philly. I think we could beat Brooklyn too.
But if we meet Chicago or Boston in the 1st round it will be tough to advance. They play hard and are able to get into our heads.

So,here are my questions:
a) Are you confident the Knicks can get out of the 1st round no matter who they play against (excluding Miami,we won't meet in the 1st round unless something weird happens) ?
b) Do you think the Knicks can go all the way to the ECF and at least put up a fight against Miami ?
c) What would need to happen for you to call our season a success ?

[Rameek]

Cant make predictions but as presently constituted I think the Knicks can beat any team in the EC 1st round except Miami and Brooklyn.

As presently constituted I dont think the Knicks can get to the finals.

I dont think my expectations are any different than the beginning of the season. Make the playoffs maybe win one round. I always thought this team a 44 win team but the other EC teams are worse than I anticipated and the miracle start wasnt predictable.

[knickscity]

Clutch is this your yearly "panic mode" thread?:D

One minute they can make the ECF, but now they can be bumped in the 1st?

Quite a few teams have had that fate happen to them, hopefully this team doesn't have it, but outside of Miami i see no worries with the others.

Definitely not this soon with almost 50 games left to play before then.

[Clutch]

Clutch is this your yearly "panic mode" thread?:D

One minute they can make the ECF, but now they can be bumped in the 1st?

Quite a few teams have had that fate happen to them, hopefully this team doesn't have it, but outside of Miami i see no worries with the others.

Definitely not this soon with almost 50 games left to play before then.
Is this my yearly panic thread ? Well yes and no.

I think we can be bumped in the 1st round pretty easily if we don't fix some of our problems. Main problem is dealing with physical play and the refs. Team just collapses way too easily and tense situations like the Celtics or Bulls game will happen regularly in the playoffs.
As good as motivator Woodson is he's not really the best x and o's guy and he's sometimes stubborn with his adjustments which could very easily cost us games in the playoffs.
Well,that's the two things I'm most worried about come playoff time,assuming we're healthy.

When healthy I think the Knicks have more talent than any other team in the East besides Miami. That's why I think they can make it to the ECF but ONLY IF they fix some of the things mentioned above.

I'm not into panic mode and I don't have a reason to be in. Knicks are 23-11,only half a game behind Miami.

This thread was created to put things in perspective. Not everything is as great as our record suggests.
Besides from the hot start the Knicks have played very much like the .500 team in the last 15 games or so.
I know we are hit by injuries but we lost some games that we should have won. Our defense has really fallen off.

We're probably going to have a homecourt advantage in the playoffs. In the worst case we'll be like 5th or 6th seed and will still avoid Miami.

But I'm not really worried about our regular season play. The thing I'm worried about is that opponents are surely watching us and clearly see that it's not that hard to beat us. Punch us and we'll fall down and never get up.
That needs to be fixed come playoff time because you won't see many blowouts in the playoffs. Every game will be tough and close so execution and mental toughness will be the key.

[knickscity]

This is a soft league, not too many teams out there will do what Chicago and Boston can.

Honestly Chicago is rather soft in the playoff themselves, their gameplan changes in the posts season to far more finesse.

Truthfully no major worries here.

I would be concerned with Melo only because he can't channel is anger into beating his opponent.

All the other top player would have lit the Celtics up, but nope, more bad shots and frustration.

He wants thing he hasn't earned at times, like ref respect.

Now if there is anything to not be sold on, is whether Melo can be that guy that dominates and wins in the playoffs.

[franchize]

A. I think we are a legit playoff team who will earn a top 4 seed.
B. I don't think we are a championship contender this year.
C. I think we are better than a 1st round out
D. I think we are more than a flash in the pan team.
E. I think our success does not rest on Melo's shoulders. I've seen him perform well in the playoffs and still lose. I think our success ultimately will be determined on what we get from Amare. Melo can have an amazing playoffs but if he doesn't have help, it will end the same way that Boston series ended. With him exhausted and them waiting till the end of the game to double. Are we going to get a Jared Jeffries performance from amare or are we going to get a guy that teams have to at least game plan for?

[knickscity]

It could be debated the only playoff win we have is due to Amare and that was with one hand.

But nah, even LeBron knew he could not defer anymore, he had to take over along with someone stepping up.

Dominating for a game does nothing, dominate a series, each one to advance.

[Scoooter]

I'm interested in seeing what Shumpert can bring to the team. At their best, the combination of Shumpert and Felton is a feisty back court. Add in Kidd and JR, and you've got a lot of potentially different looks to throw at other teams.

[franchize]

I'm interested in seeing what Shumpert can bring to the team. At their best, the combination of Shumpert and Felton is a feisty back court. Add in Kidd and JR, and you've got a lot of potentially different looks to throw at other teams.

I agree. A lotta toughness and grit in that backcourt. I also think Kidd and JR compliment each other well. Kidd is looking to pass and JR wants to put it up lol

[niko]

Cant make predictions but as presently constituted I think the Knicks can beat any team in the EC 1st round except Miami and Brooklyn.

As presently constituted I dont think the Knicks can get to the finals.

I dont think my expectations are any different than the beginning of the season. Make the playoffs maybe win one round. I always thought this team a 44 win team but the other EC teams are worse than I anticipated and the miracle start wasnt predictable.
Brooklyn? Brooklyn to be succesful in the playoffs will be relying on Evans and Blatche to give them a big contribution. And Lopez to carry them offensively. I doubt he's even healthy at that time. I disagree 100%.

[Rameek]

Brooklyn? Brooklyn to be succesful in the playoffs will be relying on Evans and Blatche to give them a big contribution. And Lopez to carry them offensively. I doubt he's even healthy at that time. I disagree 100%.
So you dont like Blatche and Evans.... ok but they do have other players on the team. Have you actually noticed they are starting to right the ship? Have you seen the Knicks play Brooklyn?

[knickscity]

Brooklyn? Brooklyn to be succesful in the playoffs will be relying on Evans and Blatche to give them a big contribution. And Lopez to carry them offensively. I doubt he's even healthy at that time. I disagree 100%.
I actually agree with both teams.

To beat Miami someone will have to outplay LeBron, and we no one to do that.

Brooklyn touts a frontline that can score and rebound, and we dont match up well there at all.

We're really in a predicament that I hope can be cured by then.

[niko]

So you dont like Blatche and Evans.... ok but they do have other players on the team. Have you actually noticed they are starting to right the ship? Have you seen the Knicks play Brooklyn?
We've won two out of three, and the last game we steamrolled them. Outside of the OKC game they've played and beaten terrible teams and they are in the midst of their post coach bump. By playoff time Lopez foot will be hurting, Deron will be hurting and they'll be look at each other like "will PJ shut up?"

For the Knicks to not impress you but the Nets to impress you puzzles me. I think the Nets get way too much credit. They are a team that's had a fairly favorable schedule, and pretty much loses when they play good teams.

I don't think the Knicks are fantastic but they have clearly played at a higher level than the Nets.

[franchize]

I'm actually with Rameek. I don't wanna have to play the Nets early in the playoffs. I also don't wanna have to play the Pacers or Bulls. I'd rather play the Celtics believe it or not. I also disagree that to beat the Heat you have to outplay LeBron.

Furthermore, I DO think we have a player that can outplay him. I'm not saying Melo is better than LeBron but it isn't farfetched that he could outplay LeBron in a series. I think to beat the Heat you have to have your star even that matchup (which Melo has and is capable of doing). Then you have to have a big man that's a threat enough to make LeBron guard Melo. I STILL maintain that Lebron hates to have to guard Melo. The key to us beating Miami will be Amare Stoudemire making Miami have to start a PF and a Center. If Miami is allowed to go small and LeBron is allowed to play pf, you lose. Why? Because no other team has a 2 guard that's going to outplay D Wade AND now LeBron doesn't have to work hard on the defensive end.

I think our problem last year was, we didn't get much out of amare and chandler offensively, so LeBron wasn't forced to guard Melo. Therefore, he could just play passing lanes and we all know he's arguably the best at that in the league. And don't even get me started on how good Miami is on the break. If LeBron is occupied guarding Melo and you have a big man that's a threat, Now everyone has to work on defense. They can't cheat and help as much. Last year, all LeBron had to do was defend the pick and roll and Tyson Chandler became inept. We had no other big man who was a threat, so they could go small and put Battier on Melo with LeBron and Wade lurking.

[Rameek]

We've won two out of three, and the last game we steamrolled them. Outside of the OKC game they've played and beaten terrible teams and they are in the midst of their post coach bump. By playoff time Lopez foot will be hurting, Deron will be hurting and they'll be look at each other like "will PJ shut up?"

For the Knicks to not impress you but the Nets to impress you puzzles me. I think the Nets get way too much credit. They are a team that's had a fairly favorable schedule, and pretty much loses when they play good teams.

I don't think the Knicks are fantastic but they have clearly played at a higher level than the Nets.
I wont respond to the Miami comment. I dont even have to dignify that.

Its about matchups. Nets are a great rebounding team that have a number of hard nosed players in the blocks. The Knicks dont match that. I never said I was impressed with the Nets. I said they are starting to right the ship. You want to discuss quality wins or wins after PJ? How many games were they behind before PJ and now? Dont look now here they come.

You want to live off the first few weeks of the season or deal with the reality that we have now?

Thats all I'm saying. Dont look now Pacers are on our heals. Celtics can figure it out. Atlanta keeps on chugging along. You know how many games that separates 1st seed and 8th seed 5.5 games

[niko]

I wont respond to the Miami comment. I dont even have to dignify that.

Its about matchups. Nets are a great rebounding team that have a number of hard nosed players in the blocks. The Knicks dont match that. I never said I was impressed with the Nets. I said they are starting to right the ship. You want to discuss quality wins or wins after PJ? How many games were they behind before PJ and now? Dont look now here they come.

You want to live off the first few weeks of the season or deal with the reality that we have now?

Thats all I'm saying. Dont look now Pacers are on our heals. Celtics can figure it out. Atlanta keeps on chugging along. You know how many games that separates 1st seed and 8th seed 5.5 games


It doesn't matter, the season is long, and you're giving the Nets credit for beating up a bunch of crappy teams. That Nets team is very so-so. If you think that team is better than the Knicks then we suck and talking playoffs, etc. is pointless. That Net team is a 45 win team that will have periodic ups and downs because they'll fall apart the month or two they miss Lopez and/or Wallace. We look like a 50-52 type win team. We are struggling now but we are fitting in new people and everyone is hurt.

Basically i know PJ, and if the Nets don't tune him out a month from now i'll be shocked because they hated Avery because he was mouthy all the time, and PJ is the same, but less respectful.

[niko]

I thnk people need to learn to relax and realize this is not a finished product. Things can improve, some things might get worse. I think Knick fans tend to be pessimistic on the Knicks going forward and optimistic on other teams. No, we probably won't pass the Heat, we just want to be in a postion it's not a pipe dream if we play them. The Nets, everyone assumes they will be in good position and healthy. Why? The post new coach bump will be gone, and Deron and Lopez will be several more months into the season. Lopez foot is going to last the season? Why? Indiana will have the problem (if people are watchign) of Granger coming back and ruining their chemistry, much as people worried about us with Amare.

Give it some time, every season has up and down periods. If we had none we'd be a 65 win team and we are not a 65 win team. The goals of the Knicks are all still within reach. Which is a good thing.

[franchize]

I wont respond to the Miami comment. I dont even have to dignify that.

Its about matchups. Nets are a great rebounding team that have a number of hard nosed players in the blocks. The Knicks dont match that. I never said I was impressed with the Nets. I said they are starting to right the ship. You want to discuss quality wins or wins after PJ? How many games were they behind before PJ and now? Dont look now here they come.

You want to live off the first few weeks of the season or deal with the reality that we have now?

Thats all I'm saying. Dont look now Pacers are on our heals. Celtics can figure it out. Atlanta keeps on chugging along. You know how many games that separates 1st seed and 8th seed 5.5 games


I agree. The Nets don't impress me. It's all about matchups. I don't like how we match up against Brooklyn or Indiana. I like how we match up against Chicago but their defense impresses the hell out of me. Another sleeper team I don't want to have to face in the 1st round is Milwaukee.

[Rameek]

Lets think about this objectively. You wonder about the Nets and the other teams injuries..... Hmmm you can say the same about the Knicks. The other teams are catching up.

No one is a pessimist the question was asked and answered! Please look at Clutch's questions you may be confused. I think the Nets dont match up well against the Knicks. Even before the first game was played between them I felt this way.

You can reply to this post that no other team is capable of beating the Knicks in the playoffs, or they're a championship team.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8130783&postcount=20


I thnk people need to learn to relax and realize this is not a finished product. Things can improve, some things might get worse. I think Knick fans tend to be pessimistic on the Knicks going forward and optimistic on other teams. No, we probably won't pass the Heat, we just want to be in a postion it's not a pipe dream if we play them. The Nets, everyone assumes they will be in good position and healthy. Why? The post new coach bump will be gone, and Deron and Lopez will be several more months into the season. Lopez foot is going to last the season? Why? Indiana will have the problem (if people are watchign) of Granger coming back and ruining their chemistry, much as people worried about us with Amare.

Give it some time, every season has up and down periods. If we had none we'd be a 65 win team and we are not a 65 win team. The goals of the Knicks are all still within reach. Which is a good thing.

Teams are starting to find there groove. We still have a while to go. But hopefully by February Stat will be what he is, Felton will be in his groove, and Shump should make a contribution. The old post players we cant predict anything with them.

I am more worried about where the Knicks are as opposed to what threats are out there against the Knicks.


I agree. The Nets don't impress me. It's all about matchups. I don't like how we match up against Brooklyn or Indiana. I like how we match up against Chicago but their defense impresses the hell out of me. Another sleeper team I don't want to have to face in the 1st round is Milwaukee.

[franchize]

Something needs to be done about our guard positions. Prigioni is atrocious. Im sorry but the guy just does not belong on an NBA court unless he's wiping up sweat with a towel. I respect his tenacity but he's just too much of a liability and everytime he's on the court, we're at a disadvantage.

[ClutchOver9000]

Melo doesn't have a true running mate. Don't even say Amare. He never complemented Melo in the first place and he's pretty much done anyway. And its not like he brings any defense to this team to compensate. Hope I'm wrong but I doubt it...

After Melo, JR Smith is easily our best offensive weapon and in reality is a 3rd option at best, plus very streaky.

Look at Deng on the Bulls. An all-around versatile stud. Underrated scorer, defensive specialist, excellent rebounder etc. He makes life easier for the Bulls, complements D-Rose nicely.

KD has a borderline superstar in Westbrook to help take pressure off him, and Westbrook thrives at putting defenses on their heels, scoring buckets, and opening the court up for KD.

Paul Pierce has KG or vice/versa.

We have JR Smith and as much as I appreciate JR Smith, the fact that we rely so heavily on him is a negative thing.

Some say Chandler is arguably our most important player, well, the guy is incapable of hitting a baby jumper, and needs to be set up for all of his points. Even Noah can make you pay if you leave him open.

BUT to be fair we're ravaged by injuries everywhere, Shump hasn't sniffed the court all season (he should benefit us HUGE when he's back) so when we're healthy I still think we're a top 3 seed in the East and we're capable of making serious noise in the playoffs. BUT I don't think we're in title contention.

[el gringos]

So everyone can see Bargnani is the answer. But oh you can't trade amare for him right? And now that amare has no trade value you can't trade chandler. What happens when chandler has no trade value?

[Clutch]

So everyone can see Bargnani is the answer. But oh you can't trade amare for him right? And now that amare has no trade value you can't trade chandler. What happens when chandler has no trade value?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[franchize]

Here we go again with this Bargnani stuff lol. Dude, Toronto is playing better without Bargnani. Is he even back form injury? Why trade away a problem and inherit another?

[Rameek]

I agree with ClutchOver9000 that Melo needs a running mate.

Stat has to be that player. I know he is still rounding into shape and getting his timing. This team has to be an inside out team and penetration kick out team. This is the first way I see this team as being legit. If Stat can be 15/7 its a good start. I will rip into this dude from February on if I dont see some improvement! This team will fail without him being better unless its Shump.

Shump can not be an 8 point player in the starting lineup. If he is then this team becomes a grind it out grunt type of team. Some nights they will have to win durty but that would mean Melo is getting relied on too much its about preservation. If Stat cant be that studd can this guy be it? No he isnt that dynamic or efficient enough player but someone will have to be it along with JR.

Melo needs to play the 3. He is doing an admirable job and I liked for the most part his effort but the Knicks need a better rebounding/defensive presence at the position. Maybe the Knicks can acquire this piece but its painfully obvious that its currently not healthy on this roster.

Felton can keep Tyson, and all other role players happy with decent looks. JR can still be what he is now. I think Felton is fine if he plays within himself.

I dont want to rely on Kidd, Pablo, Novak, Cope, Camby, Sheed, Brewer, etc.... At this point these guys either cant get it done nightly or consistently enough. Cope to me has major upside if he puts in the work and the Knicks invest time into him even at 28.

[Da KO King]

Amar'e Stoudemire is showing why Jeremy Lin ability to positively impact the Knicks was overstated. Lin does not understand spacing, tempo, etc. Lin understand "drive and shoot, or drive and pass". With Felton and Kidd directing the team Carmelo and Amar'e have worked fine together.

[Rameek]

Amar'e Stoudemire is showing why Jeremy Lin ability to positively impact the Knicks was overstated. Lin does not understand spacing, tempo, etc. Lin understand "drive and shoot, or drive and pass". With Felton and Kidd directing the team Carmelo and Amar'e have worked fine together.
So what he didnt know. I dont get your point. A converted SG to PG that didnt have a lot experience. You cant be serious blaming Lin for them not working well together. You do realize these 3 didnt have much time on the floor together at the same time last year due to injuries. What about the time before Lin....

What does JKidd have to do with anything? Passes up open shots regularly letting the defense sag off on him most of the game until the 4th quarter...


Just want to know where you going with this....

[knickscity]

Amar'e Stoudemire is showing why Jeremy Lin ability to positively impact the Knicks was overstated. Lin does not understand spacing, tempo, etc. Lin understand "drive and shoot, or drive and pass". With Felton and Kidd directing the team Carmelo and Amar'e have worked fine together.
I think Amare becoming a more complete offensive player is what is helping the team more than anything, along with his willingness to be a serviceable player on the other end.

Not sure why Kidd is in this equation as he doesn't direct the teams offense outside of taking the open shot that someone else created, and the team has looked terrible with Kidd running the point in Feltons absence...he is not that guy anymore.

Felton has definitely stabilized the team, but amare's worth to the team has been created by amare expanding his game.

[bluechox2]

It's more like combining a amare we had beasting in his first year here with a prime and motivated melo and having a competent pg for the first time to tie it altogether

[Scoooter]

Also I think the new uniforms help.

[franchize]

I think Amare becoming a more complete offensive player is what is helping the team more than anything, along with his willingness to be a serviceable player on the other end.

Not sure why Kidd is in this equation as he doesn't direct the teams offense outside of taking the open shot that someone else created, and the team has looked terrible with Kidd running the point in Feltons absence...he is not that guy anymore.

Felton has definitely stabilized the team, but amare's worth to the team has been created by amare expanding his game.
:cry: It brought a tear to my eye hearing you say that about Kidd lol

[Rameek]

Also I think the new uniforms help.
This is the answer right here.:bowdown:

[Da KO King]

I think Amare becoming a more complete offensive player is what is helping the team more than anything, along with his willingness to be a serviceable player on the other end.

Not sure why Kidd is in this equation as he doesn't direct the teams offense outside......


So what he didnt know. I dont get your point. A converted SG to PG that didnt have a lot experience....

It's about the idea that Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony could not function together. So many people ignored the obvious when it came to the Knicks PG play last season. The Knicks PG play stunk. If you want to say Lin is learning to be a PG that is fine. Doesn't change the fact that the biggest problem last year was the lack of a lead guard who understands how to keep the team operating correctly.

[knickscity]

It's about the idea that Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony could not function together. So many people ignored the obvious when it came to the Knicks PG play last season. The Knicks PG play stunk. If you want to say Lin is learning to be a PG that is fine. Doesn't change the fact that the biggest problem last year was the lack of a lead guard who understands how to keep the team operating correctly.
KO, with all due respect, I dont comment on Lin much at all, he's gone, gave the team a few sweet moments, but my focus isn't on that.

The key to Amare working with Melo and Chandler was all on Amare.

Health first, expanded skill set second.

Amare is able to perform at his level now because of these two factors.

I'm not making the pg situation a non facotr, but keep in mind Amare's performance since Melo has been here has been done WITHOUT a pg as well as with one.

Amare was killing Boston in game one and that was not because of Billups.

Amare was very efficient against Miami in that one win with one hand and we had no point guard.

Amare has been performing well even prior to Felton getting back.

At this point, the only frontcourt player that is pg dependant is Chandler.

Amare has reached a level that his getting more complete, dude can actually pass out of the post now.:applause:

[Scoooter]

Because they lose to the Wizards! :mad:

[franchize]

Because they lose to the Wizards! :mad:
As did Miami and OKC. It's just a game. A bad loss but just that. We pay them 2 more times.

[Rameek]

It's about the idea that Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony could not function together. So many people ignored the obvious when it came to the Knicks PG play last season. The Knicks PG play stunk. If you want to say Lin is learning to be a PG that is fine. Doesn't change the fact that the biggest problem last year was the lack of a lead guard who understands how to keep the team operating correctly.
Doesn't make sense to blame Lin who started for a month. Blame the kid for the Knicks not having a PG. Blame the kid for all the ills of the world.

[Scoooter]

As did Miami and OKC. It's just a game. A bad loss but just that. We pay them 2 more times.
Next time we should pay them to take a dive.

[franchize]

Next time we should pay them to take a dive.

:cletus: OK....you got me

[Rameek]

It's about the idea that Amar'e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony could not function together. So many people ignored the obvious when it came to the Knicks PG play last season. The Knicks PG play stunk. If you want to say Lin is learning to be a PG that is fine. Doesn't change the fact that the biggest problem last year was the lack of a lead guard who understands how to keep the team operating correctly.
You said Lin specifically though. Illogical assumption to blame him when it was the front office that makes those decisions. Lin didnt even play the whole season.

The ills of Chandler Amare Melo are not Lin's fault at all.

The Wizards has been winning some games against top opponents. Maybe everyone has taken them too lightly?

[knickscity]

You said Lin specifically though. Illogical assumption to blame him when it was the front office that makes those decisions. Lin didnt even play the whole season.

The ills of Chandler Amare Melo are not Lin's fault at all.

The Wizards has been winning some games against top opponents. Maybe everyone has taken them too lightly?
How about the Celtics 7-0 without Rondo.

[Rameek]

How about the Celtics 7-0 without Rondo.
I really cant understand how they are doing it either.

Every night though someone steps up. Avery Bradley is just the most pestering on ball defender in the NBA. Not for nothing but they do have a deep team thats still trying to figure it out. They have just enough experience and young players to maybe be solid but for the life of me 7-0 is ridiculous!

KG and The Truth are really carrying the load!

[knickscity]

I really cant understand how they are doing it either.

Every night though someone steps up. Avery Bradley is just the most pestering on ball defender in the NBA. Not for nothing but they do have a deep team thats still trying to figure it out. They have just enough experience and young players to maybe be solid but for the life of me 7-0 is ridiculous!

KG and The Truth are really carrying the load!
They have alot of guys who can make plays too, not just guys who pass out of double teams.

They are definitely getting a total effort.

[Fallguy20]

The bench just wasn't there tonight. That is the only reason they lost out in my mind.

[Clutch]

The bench just wasn't there tonight. That is the only reason they lost out in my mind.
Starters besides Melo were also horrible.
Kidd,Shumpert and Tyson didn't show up. Felton was solid on offense but got torched on defense.

Melo was our best player last night on both ends of the floor. Basically the only one who came to play.

[Fallguy20]

Starters besides Melo were also horrible.
Kidd,Shumpert and Tyson didn't show up. Felton was solid on offense but got torched on defense.

Melo was our best player last night on both ends of the floor. Basically the only one who came to play.

Truth. I know its sometimes hard for players to really do well in a game where one guy on their team is tearing it up, but whether he was in or out I didn't see much aggression in the paint or scoring excepting Felton.

...
Maybe they will need an easy first round matchup to really heat up?

[knickscity]

Truth. I know its sometimes hard for players to really do well in a game where one guy on their team is tearing it up, but whether he was in or out I didn't see much aggression in the paint or scoring excepting Felton.

...
Maybe they will need an easy first round matchup to really heat up?
If they play in the playoffs anywhere near yesterday, every matchup will beat them.

[Rameek]

Celtics lost Leandro Barbosa now wow...

[Rameek]

Its obvious this team needs to improve defensively.

I would like to reiterate that once Shump gets healthy I need him to be a 15 pt scorer in the starting lineup.

I would like to see Stat featured more.

I would like to see Melo minutes curtailed so he can be ready for the playoffs.

[knickscity]

Its obvious this team needs to improve defensively.

I would like to reiterate that once Shump gets healthy I need him to be a 15 pt scorer in the starting lineup.

I would like to see Stat featured more.

I would like to see Melo minutes curtailed so he can be ready for the playoffs.


agree on all except the 4th point.

He is currently 10th in qualified minutes played, and due to the amount of games he's missed, it's not an issue.

The best play, they just do.


http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes

[el gringos]

Its obvious this team needs to improve defensively.

I would like to reiterate that once Shump gets healthy I need him to be a 15 pt scorer in the starting lineup.

I would like to see Stat featured more.

I would like to see Melo minutes curtailed so he can be ready for the playoffs.


What does need 15 and to start for shumpert mean? I still think its way more important to figure out how to use shumpert with Carmelo and jr. It would be nice to close games with those 3 guys.

[Rameek]

agree on all except the 4th point.

He is currently 10th in qualified minutes played, and due to the amount of games he's missed, it's not an issue.

The best play, they just do.


http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/minutes
Sorry but the problem is he is carrying a team single handily its not a good long term situation for success.


What does need 15 and to start for shumpert mean? I still think its way more important to figure out how to use shumpert with Carmelo and jr. It would be nice to close games with those 3 guys.
Shumpert is a starting SG/SF for the NY Knicks. He can not be a 1 dimensional player. He needed to take a step forward offensively. He should be a 15 pt a game player. 3 single digit starters is retarded.

[franchize]

I remember when me and Rameek seemed to never agree. Those days are long gone lol :applause: You are preaching some church brother lol We are wearing Melo out and worst of all, we aren't even getting him help on the court. I could see if it was a LeBron situation where he's playing a lot of minutes but he can take breaks on the court because he has Wade and Bosh. Melo is carrying the load of scoring. He's getting zero help In the form of starters and JR Smith, while having his best season, is still always going to be up and down.

[Rameek]

I remember when me and Rameek seemed to never agree. Those days are long gone lol :applause: You are preaching some church brother lol We are wearing Melo out and worst of all, we aren't even getting him help on the court. I could see if it was a LeBron situation where he's playing a lot of minutes but he can take breaks on the court because he has Wade and Bosh. Melo is carrying the load of scoring. He's getting zero help In the form of starters and JR Smith, while having his best season, is still always going to be up and down.
Melo has earned my respect! We agree about everything these days! I guess I'm part of your cult lol

[Clutch]

J.R. shot chart :lol

http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/11160_442259959179885_1467885394_n.png

[franchize]

I really cant understand how they are doing it either.

Every night though someone steps up. Avery Bradley is just the most pestering on ball defender in the NBA. Not for nothing but they do have a deep team thats still trying to figure it out. They have just enough experience and young players to maybe be solid but for the life of me 7-0 is ridiculous!

KG and The Truth are really carrying the load!
I can. Knickscity knows my stance on Rondo. Good...but overrated.

As for our Knicks, all I know is, Grunwald needs to get busy. You can't be in "win now" mode and have this roster. That doesn't add up. You HAVE to, at the very least, replace Sheed and/or Camby. You gave Camby 4 mill+ over 3 years. Obviously, you thought he'd be a significant part of your team. So now that he's out, you need to replace that void.

[Rameek]

J.R. shot chart :lol

I have an issue with this post and feelings of other Knick fans when it comes to JR. These are the same exact shots he took when they were 18-5. The difference is he made those shots earlier in the season. No one complained about shot selection then its not fair to criticize them now.


I can. Knickscity knows my stance on Rondo. Good...but overrated.

As for our Knicks, all I know is, Grunwald needs to get busy. You can't be in "win now" mode and have this roster. That doesn't add up. You HAVE to, at the very least, replace Sheed and/or Camby. You gave Camby 4 mill+ over 3 years. Obviously, you thought he'd be a significant part of your team. So now that he's out, you need to replace that void.

I think Rondo talent is elite. He is flawed and not a leader though.

Of course I agree that Grunwald made a mistake by not replacing them. Their are only 3 bigs active and thats whats going to destroy Melo. My problem also is Woody doesnt find a way to get White/Copeland minutes to save Chandler/Melo.

[Clutch]

I have an issue with this post and feelings of other Knick fans when it comes to JR. These are the same exact shots he took when they were 18-5. The difference is he made those shots earlier in the season. No one complained about shot selection then its not fair to criticize them now.

Relax,it was a joke. :cheers:

I love J.R. He's a good spark off the bench and he's being paid peanuts.
Also he plays hard every game.
He'll never be a smart player but I think he needs to be put in proper situation to play up to his potential.

Woodson loves iso ball and obviously he wants them to take a lot of threes. J.R. needs the coach who asks him to attack the basket more. Also he needs a coach who won't make him to play like PG at times.

IMO J.R. needs to attack the basket more,get more off screens and get an occasional isolation.