Best Players Ever By Country

[Euroleague]

I think this would be an interesting topic (the best basketball players ever by country), and YES, it will include discussions about MANY NBA players, so it SHOULD be in this forum.


Argentina -

Manu Ginobili -

Luis Scola (honorable mention)


Australia -

Andrew Gaze -

Shane Heal (honorable mention) -
David Andersen (honorable mention) -
Chris Anstey (honorable mention) -
Luc Longley (honorable mention) -
Andrew Bogut (if you only want to count NBA)


Belgium -

Tony Parker (best Belgian born) -

Willy Steveniers (best Belgian player) -
Axel Hervelle (honorable mention) -
Tomas Van Den Spiegel (honorable mention) -
D. J. Mbenga (honorable mention)


Bosnia -

Mirza Delibasic -

Mirza Teletovic (honorable mention)


Brazil -

Oscar Schmidt


Bulgaria -

Atanas Golomeev -

Georgi Glouchkov (honorable mention)


Canada -

Steve Nash


China -

Yao Ming


Croatia -

Drazen Petrovic (based on how good the players were) -

Kresimir Cosic (based on body of work and accomplishments) -
Toni Kukoc (if you only want to count NBA) -
Dino Radja (honorable mention) -
Nikola Vujcic (honorable mention) -
Stojan Vrankovic (honorable mention)


Czech Republic -

Jiri Zidek Sr. -

Ivan Mrazek (honorable mention)


Dominican Republic -

Al Horford -

Jack Michael Martinez (honorable mention) -
Sammy Mejia (honorable mention)


England -

Carlton Myers (best English player) -

Luol Deng (best with English citizenship, that is if you only want to count NBA) -
Ben Gordon (best English born, if you only count the NBA) -

Nate Reinking (honorable mention) -
Michael Olowokandi (honorable mention) -
John Amaechi (honorable mention) -
Andrew Betts (honorable mention) -
Pops Mensah-Bonsu (honorable mention) -
Joel Freeland (honorable mention) -



Finland -

Hanno Mottola -

Petteri Koponen (honorable mention) -
Sasu Salin (honorable mention) -


France -

Dominique Wilkins (best French born) -

Tony Parker (best with French citizenship) -
Antoine Rigaudeau (honorable mention) -
Alain Gilles (honorable mention) -
Stephane Ostrowski (honorable mention) -
Richard Dacoury (honorable mention) -
Jean-Paul Beugnot (honorable mention) -


FYRO Macedonia -

Petar Naumoski -

Bo McCalebb (honorable mention) -
Pero Antic (honorable mention) -
Vrbica Stefanov (honorable mention)


Germany -

Dirk Nowitzki -

Detlef Schrempf (honorable mention) -
Christian Welp (honorable mention) -
Chris Kaman (honorable mention)

Georgia -

Otar Korkia

Manuchar Markoishvili (honorable mention)
Giorgi Shermadini (honorable mention)
Zaza Pachulia (counting only NBA)


Greece -

Nikos Galis (best Greek blood diaspora) -

Panagiotis Giannakis (best Greek born)


Haiti -

Olden Polynice -

Samuel Dalembert (honorable mention)


Hungary -

Ferenc Nemeth -

Kornel David (honorable mention)


Iceland -

Petur Gudmundsson -

Jon Stefansson (honorable mention)


Iran -

Hamed Haddadi


Israel -

Miki Berkovich


Ireland -

Pat Burke


Italy -

Dino Meneghin -

Pier Marzorati (honorable mention) -
Antonello Riva (honorable mention) -
Gregor F u c k a (honorable mention)
Carlton Myers (honorable mention) -
Aldo Ossola (honorable mention) -


Jordan -

Zaid Abbas


Latvia -

Janis Krumins -

Valdis Valters (honorable mention) -
Andris Biedrins (if you only want to count NBA)


Lebanon -

Rony Seikaly

Fadi El Khatib (honorable mention)


Lithuania -

Arvydas Sabonis (pre-injury), if considering post injury Sabonis, then -

Sarunas Marciulionis or Sarunas Jasikevicius
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (counting only NBA)


Mexico -

Manuel Raga -

Gustavo Ayon (honorable mention) -
Romel Beck (honorable mention)
Eduardo Najera (honorable mention) -


Montenegro -

Nikola Pekovic


Netherlands -

Rik Smits -

Swen Nater (honorable mention) -
Kees Akerboom Sr. (honorable mention)
Francisco Elson (honorable mention) -
Dan Gadzuric (honorable mention)


New Zealand -

Kirk Penney -

Sean Marks (if you only want to count NBA) -
Pero Cameron (honorable mention)


Nigeria -

Hakeem Olajuwon


Peru -

Ricardo Duarte


Poland-

Marcin Gortat


Puerto Rico -

Jose Ortiz -

Teofilo Cruz (honorable mention) -
J.J. Barea (honorable mention) -
Daniel Santiago (honorable mention) -
Carlos Arroyo (if you only want to count NBA)


Republic of the Congo -

Serge Ibaka


Russia -

Andrei Kirilenko -

If you want to count Soviet Union/Russia as one for the actual Russian lineage players, then -

Sergey Belov


Scotland -

Robert Archibald


Senegal -

Boniface N'Dong

Pape Sow (honorable mention)


Serbia -

Hard to decide this one (probably Bodiroga though), when they had players like -

Dejan Bodiroga -

Drazen Dalipagic (honorable mention) -
Dragan Kicanovic (honorable mention) -
Radivoj Korac (honorable mention) -
Sasha Danilovic (honorable mention) -
Vlade Divac (honorable mention) -
Peja Stojakovic (honorable mention) -
Sasha Djordjevic (honorable mention) -

Slovakia -

Stanislav Kropilak -

Anton Gavel (honorable mention) -
Richard Petruska (honorable mention) -


Slovenia - (lots of players on similar levels)

Ivo Daneu -

Gregor F u c k a (honorable mention) -
Jaka Lakovic (honorable mention) -
Erazem Lorbek (honorable mention) -
Rasho Nesterovic (honorable mention) -
Goran Dragic (if you only want to count NBA)

Matjaz Smodis (honorable mention) -
Bostjan Nachbar (honorable mention) -
Beno Udrih (honorable mention) -
Sani Becirovic (honorable mention) -
Sasha Vujacic (honorable mention) -
Primoz Brezec (honorable mention)

Soviet Union -

Sergey Belov -

Alexander Belov (honorable mention)



Spain -

Juan Carlos Navarro (based on how good the players were) -

Pau Gasol (based on accomplishments, he could be argued as the best) -
Epi (honorable mention) -
Juan Antonio Corbalan (honorable mention) -
Emiliano Rodriguez (honorable mention)


Sweden -

Maciej Lampe (he grew up in Sweden) -

Jonas Jerebko (best Swedish born) -
Jeffery Taylor (honorable mention)


Switzerland -

Nikola Vucevic (he was born in Switzerland) -

Enes Kanter (he was born in Switzerland) -
Thabo Sefalosha (best fully Swiss player)

I can't think of any other Swiss players, so I put Vucevic and Kanter there, even though they are Montenegrin and Turkish.


Tunisia -

Salah Mejri


Turkey -

Ibrahim Kutluay -

Mirsad Turkcan (honorable mention) -
Hedo Turkoglu (if you only want to count NBA)


Ukraine -

Vladimir Tkachenko -

Alexander Volkov (honorable mention) -
Viktor Khryapa (if you count him, since he is Ukraine born - honorable mention)


USA -

Michael Jordan -

Magic Johnson (honorable mention) -
Larry Bird (honorable mention)


US Virgin Islands -

Tim Duncan


Venezuela -

Greivis Vasquez -

Oscar Torres (honorable mention)

[FKAri]

Planet of the Kai's -

Gawdbe
:bowdown:

[Money 23]

Nikos Galis is American

[RRR3]

I did a similar thread once: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233560

BTW Virgin Islands isn't a country.

[niko]

Turkey: D-Will

[DonDadda59]

The Planet Lovetron
Darryl Dawkins :pimp:

[KobesFinger]

No love for Peja Stojakovic? Luol Deng for UK (born in Sudan) otherwise Ben Gordon. Our players suck

[Money 23]

BTW Virgin Islands isn't a country.
Exactly, it's a US property.

[Fiba basketball]

Dalipagic should be listed for Serbia not Bosnia .

[(e)]

Exactly, it's a US property.
And yet Tim Duncan is still considered an international player.

Also I'm sure most people know, but Nash was born in South Africa. Although I think it's fair to associate him with Canada.

[Money 23]

And yet Tim Duncan is still considered an international player.
Never really heard that myself. He played for Team USA in the Olympics.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Dalipagic should be listed for Serbia not Bosnia .

He was born and raised in Mostar...finished school in Mostar...but since his name is Serbian, he should be listed as a Serbian...? What am I missing here? You do realize a shit ton of Serbs live in Bosnia right?

[Marv_Albert]

No mention for Lebron and Kobe for USA??

[AngelEyes]

No mention for Lebron and Kobe for USA??

As awful as he is as a poster he still gets some things right, although the Bird mention could probably be replaced with Kareem.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I did a similar thread once: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233560

BTW Virgin Islands isn't a country.

And you did a horrible job...Stojakovic as Croatian (idc if you were doing it from where they were born, thats ****ing retarded) and vlad rad for bosnia..:oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Vassilis Spanoulis > anyone you mentioned. Best to ever lace em up. Would take on the 92' dream team by himself and ask for more.

http://imageshack.us/a/img854/5972/small7vasilisspanoulisg.jpg

we = not worthy

[BoutPractice]

Good list, except for Navarro. I think he's really underrated by those who only watch the NBA, but not to the extent that he's better than Gasol.
For Serbia, I would say Bodiroga had the best pure talent/skill, but Stojakovic's NBA career is too exceptional to be ignored - we're talking about a multiple all-star who was once top 5 in MVP voting.

[Fiba basketball]

He was born and raised in Mostar...finished school in Mostar...but since his name is Serbian, he should be listed as a Serbian...? What am I missing here? You do realize a shit ton of Serbs live in Bosnia right?
Yes but as you said he is Serb that lived in Bosnia so I m right .

[The Real JW]

Spain -

Juan Carlos Navarro (based on how good the players were) -
Pau Gasol (based on accomplishments) -
Epi (honorable mention) -
Juan Antonio Corbalan (honorable mention) -
Emiliano Rodriguez (honorable mention)

lol @ Navarro ahead of the Gasols, Rubio, Ibaka.

[Sarcastic]

Kyrie Irving is the best Australian.

[AirTupac]

Yes but as you said he is Serb that lived in Bosnia so I m right .

Born and Raised in Bosnia and you call him Serb. Okay there :oldlol:

[DFish]

USA should really look like this


USA -

Michael Jordan (mandatory mention)
Wilt Chamberlain (mandatory mention)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (mandatory mention)
Magic Johnson (mandatory mention)
Bill Russell (mandatory mention)
Larry Bird (mandatory mention)
Shaquille O'Neal (mandatory mention)
Tim Duncan (honorable mention, they're not called the U.S. Virgin Islands for nothing)
Kobe Bryant (honorable mention)
LeBron James (honorable mention)
Oscar Robertson (honorable mention)
Jerry West (honorable mention)

[Shade8780]

No love for Ireland? Pat Burke :bowdown:

[gabepizza]

Any one who suggest that Navarro is better then Gasol should have their head checks. Lets forget for a minute that Gasol plays in a much better league

Navarro has one Mr. Europa awards
Gasol has two

Navarro has no FIBA European player of the year awards
Gasol has two

Navarro has no Euroscar awards
Gasol has three

Navarro has no All-Europeans Player of the Year
Gasol has two

Navarro has a Eurobasket MVP
Gasol has a Eurobasket MVP and and a FIBA World Championship MVP

And finally, while we will never know how Team Spain would fare with Gasol and no Navarro, it has been shown that Team Spain with Navarro and no Gasol turn from contenders to pretenders. I mean in the 2010 World Championships Spain without Gasol finished 6th and Navarro could not even get selected to the all-tournament team.

[CeltsGarlic]

And you did a horrible job...Stojakovic as Croatian (idc if you were doing it from where they were born, thats ****ing retarded) and vlad rad for bosnia..:oldlol:

Or sabonis tied with ilgauskas..

[Money 23]

USA should really look like this
:pimp:

[Euroleague]

He was born and raised in Mostar...finished school in Mostar...but since his name is Serbian, he should be listed as a Serbian...? What am I missing here? You do realize a shit ton of Serbs live in Bosnia right?

I thought about it, and I think he's right that he would be considered Serbian. I don't know hard call on that one.

[Euroleague]

Good list, except for Navarro. I think he's really underrated by those who only watch the NBA, but not to the extent that he's better than Gasol.

For Serbia, I would say Bodiroga had the best pure talent/skill, but Stojakovic's NBA career is too exceptional to be ignored - we're talking about a multiple all-star who was once top 5 in MVP voting.

I take Navarro over Pau, and I know many in Europe and Spain agree. But I would say that's probably the most debatable of them all.

As for Peja, don't forget that he was also one of the worst defenders ever.

[red1]

pau > jcn

[red1]

euroleague what makes you think spanoulis is more athletic than westbrook?

[Euroleague]

Any one who suggest that Navarro is better then Gasol should have their head checks. Lets forget for a minute that Gasol plays in a much better league

Navarro has one Mr. Europa awards
Gasol has two

Navarro has no FIBA European player of the year awards
Gasol has two

Navarro has no Euroscar awards
Gasol has three

Navarro has no All-Europeans Player of the Year
Gasol has two

Navarro has a Eurobasket MVP
Gasol has a Eurobasket MVP and and a FIBA World Championship MVP

And finally, while we will never know how Team Spain would fare with Gasol and no Navarro, it has been shown that Team Spain with Navarro and no Gasol turn from contenders to pretenders. I mean in the 2010 World Championships Spain without Gasol finished 6th and Navarro could not even get selected to the all-tournament team.


You are a ****ing moron. Just about all my Spanish friends that like basket think Navarro is the best Spanish ever, or if we really want to...the best Catalan ever.

Sure that's probably the most debatable one, but stop ****ing acting like no way in hell can it be Navarro, like no one thinks that. Tons of people think that. Stop this ****ing "sick in the head" bullshit for anyone that disagrees with any of your own opinions.

Many people even think Navarro is in the debate for the best European two guard ever. So just drop this bullshit that it's crazy to consider him the best Spanish player ever, because it isn't, and many people agree with it.

Actually, in case you didn't know, outside of your NBA only fan delusional world, there are many people in Europe and Spain that prefer Epi over Pau also.

And you listed a bunch of awards that are not official so they don't mean jack shit. They are nothing more meaningful than the Sporting News awards, realgm awards, Si awards, etc. Stop being a ****ing dumb ass all the time. The only one of those awards that is an actual real award is the FIBA award.

The rest don't mean shit, especially Mr. Europa, which no one really ever ****ing cared about, and I don't think it even exists anymore.

[Euroleague]

USA should really look like this

Then why isn't Carlos Arroyo considered an American player?

[blablabla]

Austria

blablabla

[CavaliersFTW]

euroleague what makes you think spanoulis is more athletic than westbrook?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWl-JHATnP4

that hang-time, that quickness :bowdown:

[Marv_Albert]

Australia - Andrew Bogut, Kyrie Irving

Andrew Gaze?? :wtf:

[chains5000]

lol @ Navarro ahead of the Gasols, Rubio, Ibaka.
Him over Pau Gasol is debatable, but he's clearly better that the others.

[chains5000]

And finally, while we will never know how Team Spain would fare with Gasol and no Navarro, it has been shown that Team Spain with Navarro and no Gasol turn from contenders to pretenders. I mean in the 2010 World Championships Spain without Gasol finished 6th and Navarro could not even get selected to the all-tournament team.
You could also check who was missing in the 2006 FIBA World Championship Finals, and see how the team performed.
IMO it's debatable who's been the better player.

[Euroleague]

I suddenly remembered that 'Nique was born in France and has French citizenship, so he should be above Parker.

[Euroleague]

Australia - Andrew Bogut, Kyrie Irving

Andrew Gaze?? :wtf:

Andrew Gaze is the best Australian player ever by leaps and bounds. It's not even remotely debatable.

[Toizumi]

Netherlands -

Rik Smits -
Swen Nater (honorable mention) -
Kees Akerboom Sr. (honorable mention)



You know your stuff, but no way anyone would take Akerboom over Elson or Gadzuric. Akerboom was one of the greatest players ever in the national league, yes, but Elson and Gadzuric rose from that level to play in the NBA and be somewhat serviceable as well. Elson on the Dutch national team was a complete monster (yeah the team sucked) and it showed that he was level beyond these other guys playing national/euro competition. Akerboom in his day was great in his own right, but never that good. Also, I deflowered his niece, which is nothing to brag about since she was quite ugly.

[The Real JW]

Andrew Gaze
Who?

[QUOTE]In 1988

[Euroleague]

You know your stuff, but no way anyone would take Akerboom over Elson or Gadzuric. Akerboom was one of the greatest players ever in the national league, yes, but Elson and Gadzuric rose from that level to play in the NBA and be somewhat serviceable as well. Elson on the Dutch national team was a complete monster (yeah the team sucked) and it showed that he was level beyond these other guys playing national/euro competition. Akerboom in his day was great in his own right, but never that good. Also, I deflowered his niece, which is nothing to brag about since she was quite ugly.

:roll:


Who?


Oh...

It's pathetic if you are a basketball fan, and you don't even know who Andrew Gaze is.

[red1]

Euroleague, what makes you say that spanoulis is more athletic than westbrook?

[Money 23]

Spanoulis isn't more athletic than guys at the gym I play with ...

Kyrie Irving isn't an AUSTRALIAN basketball product.

[gabepizza]

You could also check who was missing in the 2006 FIBA World Championship Finals, and see how the team performed.
IMO it's debatable who's been the better player.

That's one game. As been shown without their best players teams could have a good game or two but not a whole tournament. And even not playing that game Gasol was selected as the tournament MVP while Navarro wasn't even on the all-tournament team, it was Garbajosa who btw was more important in the final, both had 20 points but Garbajosa had 6 more rebounds, 4 less turnovers and one more assist, block and steal.

[gabepizza]

You are a ****ing moron. Just about all my Spanish friends that like basket think Navarro is the best Spanish ever, or if we really want to...the best Catalan ever.

Sure that's probably the most debatable one, but stop ****ing acting like no way in hell can it be Navarro, like no one thinks that. Tons of people think that. Stop this ****ing "sick in the head" bullshit for anyone that disagrees with any of your own opinions.

Many people even think Navarro is in the debate for the best European two guard ever. So just drop this bullshit that it's crazy to consider him the best Spanish player ever, because it isn't, and many people agree with it.

Actually, in case you didn't know, outside of your NBA only fan delusional world, there are many people in Europe and Spain that prefer Epi over Pau also.

And you listed a bunch of awards that are not official so they don't mean jack shit. They are nothing more meaningful than the Sporting News awards, realgm awards, Si awards, etc. Stop being a ****ing dumb ass all the time. The only one of those awards that is an actual real award is the FIBA award.

The rest don't mean shit, especially Mr. Europa, which no one really ever ****ing cared about, and I don't think it even exists anymore.

And Gasol has two more of those than Navarro has.

[millwad]

Hey, nikkas, add Jeff Taylor to the mix as the best swedish player ever.
He's currently playing for Charlotte Bobcats.

Peace out ma nikkas!

[Kiddlovesnets]

I thought Italy's best player ever was Bargnani?
:rolleyes:

[CavaliersFTW]

The best foreign players of all time always end up in the U.S.A. to play in the greatest league of all time. Coincidence?

(and not all of them are successfull once they go against NBA level competition either :lol )

[The Real JW]

It's pathetic if you are a basketball fan, and you don't even know who Andrew Gaze is.
Clearly Gaze is an all-time great. Playing 2 seasons in the NBA and averaging 3.1 PPG.

[Euroleague]

That's one game. As been shown without their best players teams could have a good game or two but not a whole tournament. And even not playing that game Gasol was selected as the tournament MVP while Navarro wasn't even on the all-tournament team, it was Garbajosa who btw was more important in the final, both had 20 points but Garbajosa had 6 more rebounds, 4 less turnovers and one more assist, block and steal.

Once a troll, always a troll.

[Euroleague]

Clearly Gaze is an all-time great. Playing 2 seasons in the NBA and averaging 3.1 PPG.

You are an idiot.

[CavaliersFTW]

You are an idiot.
PERIOD.

[The Real JW]

Trying out for the Sonics and not receiving a contract or offer and getting waived is the sign of a great player.

[Euroleague]

Trying out for the Sonics and not receiving a contract or offer and getting waived is the sign of a great player.

I realize you are definitely an NBA only fan, and that you are probably about 12 years old. Andrew Gaze was a BEAST. I will just assume you never saw him in international play.............

that guy was a an absolute BEAST. Kyrie Irving has absolutely NOTHING on him.

[red1]

Euroleague why are you always wrong? And why are you posts always so offensively retarded?

[red1]

Euroleague I am curious to see what your f*gg*t-ass is like in real life. I am confused. Are you a hick from arkansas? Some international feminine p*ssy who loves greek men? A chimp who escaped from a zoo? Whatever it is I bet it aint pleasant

[The Real JW]

Such a beast that no NBA team wanted him in 1990. Wrong kind of beast, I guess.

[RRR3]

And you did a horrible job...Stojakovic as Croatian (idc if you were doing it from where they were born, thats ****ing retarded) and vlad rad for bosnia..:oldlol:
:( I did do it based on where they were born, so sue me. No need for insults :(

[CavaliersFTW]

I realize you are definitely an NBA only fan, and that you are probably about 12 years old. Andrew Gaze was a BEAST. I will just assume you never saw him in international play.............

that guy was a an absolute BEAST. Kyrie Irving has absolutely NOTHING on him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq0IKmqNIaw

[Fiba basketball]

Born and Raised in Bosnia and you call him Serb. Okay there :oldlol: I know people that were born in Bosnia and later moved to Serbia and are Serbs so what you said doesn't have much logic also go on wikipedia and there it say he is Serb .

[Euroleague]

I know people that were born in Bosnia and later moved to Serbia and are Serbs so what you said doesn't have much logic also go on wikipedia and there it say he is Serb .

I did change him to Serbia. But I had to think about it. At first I thought Bosnia because that's where he was from. But then after you said that, this is how I reasoned it........

in today's time he would be a Serb Bosnian, since the countries are all split up now. But back in his day, there was just the one Yugoslav state. So, even though he was a Serb from Bosnia, Bosnia was just Yugoslavia then.

So, he would be a Serb Yugo. So, yeah, I think you are right. That's a hard one to call though. Because if I remember right, wasn't him and Delibasic really close friends? There is a Bosnian aspect there.

But I think you are right - this one is like Galis. He's Greek and American, but REALLY he's Greek, even though he grew up in America. So after thinking about it, yeah, Dalipagic was Serb even though he grew up in modern time Bosnia region.

Here is one.............could we also consider Drazen part Serb? I mean, I know he himself would not, but technically.............

[Bosnian Sajo]

I know people that were born in Bosnia and later moved to Serbia and are Serbs so what you said doesn't have much logic also go on wikipedia and there it say he is Serb .

Yea, but he was a Serb who was born in Bosnia and stayed there lol. Plenty more like him, just look at Miroslav Stevanovic (soccer player), he was born in Bosnia and raised there and now currently plays for the Bosnian national team. Do you look at him as a Serb too?

[Euroleague]

Yea, but he was a Serb who was born in Bosnia and stayed there lol. Plenty more like him, just look at Miroslav Stevanovic (soccer player), he was born in Bosnia and raised there and now currently plays for the Bosnian national team. Do you look at him as a Serb too?

Can we just call him Serb-Bosnian? That way I can put him on both lists for each country. He would definitely be #1 from Bosnia.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Can we just call him Serb-Bosnian? That way I can put him on both lists for each country. He would definitely be #1 from Bosnia.

*Bosnian-serb, and thats exactly what Im arguing he is :oldlol:

[Euroleague]

*Bosnian-serb, and thats exactly what Im arguing he is :oldlol:

So how should we classify Drazen then? And what about McHale?

[Bosnian Sajo]

So how should we classify Drazen then? And what about McHale?

I'd put Drazen as a Serb







































































http://www.drazenpetrovic.com/gallery/rep/rep8.jpg

[Fiba basketball]

I did change him to Serbia. But I had to think about it. At first I thought Bosnia because that's where he was from. But then after you said that, this is how I reasoned it........

in today's time he would be a Serb Bosnian, since the countries are all split up now. But back in his day, there was just the one Yugoslav state. So, even though he was a Serb from Bosnia, Bosnia was just Yugoslavia then.

So, he would be a Serb Yugo. So, yeah, I think you are right. That's a hard one to call though. Because if I remember right, wasn't him and Delibasic really close friends? There is a Bosnian aspect there.

But I think you are right - this one is like Galis. He's Greek and American, but REALLY he's Greek, even though he grew up in America. So after thinking about it, yeah, Dalipagic was Serb even though he grew up in modern time Bosnia region.

Here is one.............could we also consider Drazen part Serb? I mean, I know he himself would not, but technically.............
Danilovic was born and raised in Bosnia just like Dalipagic and everyone considers him to be a Serb so it's safe to say I'm right . You talking about Drazen Petrovic ? His father was a Serb and I heard a lot of people calling him part Serb but they only did that to mess with Croats so I think you shouldn't call him that .

[Euroleague]

Danilovic was born and raised in Bosnia just like Dalipagic and everyone considers him to be a Serb so it's safe to say I'm right . You talking about Drazen Petrovic ? His father was a Serb and I heard a lot of people calling him part Serb but they only did that to mess with Croats so I think you shouldn't call him that .

I know, but technically he was half Serb. What about McHale? Isn't he half Croatian?

[Fiba basketball]

Yea, but he was a Serb who was born in Bosnia and stayed there lol. Plenty more like him, just look at Miroslav Stevanovic (soccer player), he was born in Bosnia and raised there and now currently plays for the Bosnian national team. Do you look at him as a Serb too?
How did he stay there when he played for Partizan and what about Danilovic I don't see you arguing about him being Bosnian and he was also born and raised there . Call Dalipagic Serb from Bosnia or Bosnian Serb as long he is listed as one of the best Serbian players I don't care .

[Grinder]

Euroleague I am curious to see what your f*gg*t-ass is like in real life. I am confused. Are you a hick from arkansas? Some international feminine p*ssy who loves greek men? A chimp who escaped from a zoo? Whatever it is I bet it aint pleasant

Seriously,there's no way the dude isn't a sociopathic virgin and the worst part is that he's over 30. :roll:

[Fiba basketball]

I know, but technically he was half Serb. What about McHale? Isn't he half Croatian?
I don't know about McHale but Oscar Schmidt said his grandmother was from Serbia and that since Serbs are great shooters so was he .

[chains5000]

That's one game. As been shown without their best players teams could have a good game or two but not a whole tournament. And even not playing that game Gasol was selected as the tournament MVP while Navarro wasn't even on the all-tournament team, it was Garbajosa who btw was more important in the final, both had 20 points but Garbajosa had 6 more rebounds, 4 less turnovers and one more assist, block and steal.
Navarro was the key player that game IMO. It's not just about numbers.

[Kews1]

New Zealand -


)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noqIauGMfVU

[Nero Tulip]

I think this would be an interesting topic, and YES, it will include discussions about MANY NBA players, so it SHOULD be in this forum.

France -

Dominique Wilkins (best French born) -
Tony Parker (best with French citizenship) -
Antoine Rigaudeau (honorable mention) -
Alain Gilles (honorable mention) -
Stephane Ostrowski (honorable mention) -
Richard Dacoury (honorable mention) -
Jean-Paul Beugnot (honorable mention) -



You should add Herv

[MiseryCityTexas]

Brazil's list is a joke. You coulda at least put Nene, and Barbosa on the damned list.

[andremiller07]

Brazil's list is a joke. You coulda at least put Nene, and Barbosa on the damned list.

Honourable mention for Brazil as well Marcelo Huertas (hes not the best but one of the best out of Brazil) that guy is a top notch PG and has played real well against team USA on a number of occasions.

[chains5000]

Brazil's list is a joke. You coulda at least put Nene, and Barbosa on the damned list.
:facepalm Schmidt is a f*cking legend.

[winnnaz]

I know, but technically he was half Serb. What about McHale? Isn't he half Croatian?
He f@cking hated serbs after their civil war.
Watch "Once were brothers".

[Euroleague]

[QUOTE=Nero Tulip]You should add Herv

[Euroleague]

Brazil's list is a joke. You coulda at least put Nene, and Barbosa on the damned list.

Why? Neither one is even 1/10 as good as Oscar was. There's no point to even mention anyone else but him. Besides that, Huertas is better than they are anyway.

[Euroleague]

He f@cking hated serbs after their civil war.
Watch "Once were brothers".

I know that. But his father was Serb.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Vassilis Spanoulis dunked on Chuck Norris.

[Sakkreth]

Brazil's list is a joke. You coulda at least put Nene, and Barbosa on the damned list.

Ur knowledge of basketball is a joke. Those players doesn't deserve to be even honorable mentions next to Schmidt.

[Nero Tulip]

When Wilkins played for Panathinaikos, he was listed under a French passport.

... So? They're wrong. He's less French than Stojakovic is Greek.

[Lebron23]

First Filipino Player in the NBA. He's a Filipino-American.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_R5uhlefVFmQ/Sr59pbESA_I/AAAAAAAAD6w/VNWEZuU1EEI/s800/RT_jpeg.jpg

[Bandito]

I agree with Spain, Puerto Rico and USA. Jose "Piculin" Ortiz is a legend over here but I won't even put Arroyo there. He is a scrub that had the luck to be advertised like hell over here. BArea was not as advertised and he is 10X the player he is. In fact take him off and put Daniel Santiago there. He has played in Europe for a lot of years and is one of those smart centers that plays defense. If he was more athletic he could've been something special, heck he played a couple of years with the Bucks just on IQ only, but is to slow :lol. Also Ayuso is a honorable mention but he's known here and not abroad. He had a lot of legendary moments here and in the Olympics but not a lot to be considered the best, but deserves a mention.

MJ well is MJ lol.

But Navarro is/was a beast and Pau by accomplishments could be one of the two best players. I think in their case is a choice of who you like more...

[Euroleague]

I agree with Spain, Puerto Rico and USA. Jose "Piculin" Ortiz is a legend over here but I won't even put Arroyo there. He is a scrub that had the luck to be advertised like hell over here. BArea was not as advertised and he is 10X the player he is. In fact take him off and put Daniel Santiago there. He has played in Europe for a lot of years and is one of those smart centers that plays defense. If he was more athletic he could've been something special, heck he played a couple of years with the Bucks just on IQ only, but is to slow :lol. Also Ayuso is a honorable mention but he's known here and not abroad. He had a lot of legendary moments here and in the Olympics but not a lot to be considered the best, but deserves a mention.

MJ well is MJ lol.

But Navarro is/was a beast and Pau by accomplishments could be one of the two best players. I think in their case is a choice of who you like more...

I forgot about him. He was always a guy that played his heart out for the national team.

[La Frescobaldi]

I know, but technically he was half Serb. What about McHale? Isn't he half Croatian?
The great Celtic Kevin McHale is of Irish and of Croat origin, and he was born in Bobby Dylan's hometown of Hibbing, Minnesota

[LongLiveTheKing]

Planet of the Kai's -

Gawdbe
:bowdown:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[millwad]

Euroleague, add Jeff Taylor and Sweden to the mix!

http://a3.mndcdn.com/image/upload/t_article_v2/avhjarasdsmvqah9ylwqgq.jpg

[red1]

Seriously,there's no way the dude isn't a sociopathic virgin and the worst part is that he's over 30. :roll:
It's ridiculous how much disinformation he spreads. I don't trust anything he posts

[lakers_forever]

Ubiratan Maciel, Amaury Passos and Wlamir Marques are brazilian who deserve to be next to Oscar. They all made the FIBA's 50 Greatest Players List* in 1991 and the FIBA Hall of Fame.

Maciel is already a Naismith Memorial hall of famer. And Oscar and Amaury Passs are among the nominees for the 2013 class.
http://www.hoophall.com/news/2013/1/7/the-official-class-of-2013-ballot-nominees-from-the-naismith.html




*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA%27s_50_Greatest_Players_%281991%29


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiratan_Pereira_Maciel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaury_Pasos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wlamir_Marques

[97 bulls]

Ubiratan Maciel, Amaury Passos and Wlamir Marques are brazilian who deserve to be next to Oscar. They all made the FIBA's 50 Greatest Players List* in 1991 and the FIBA Hall of Fame.

Maciel is already a Naismith Memorial hall of famer. And Oscar and Amaury Passs are among the nominees for the 2013 class.
http://www.hoophall.com/news/2013/1/7/the-official-class-of-2013-ballot-nominees-from-the-naismith.html




*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA%27s_50_Greatest_Players_%281991%29


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiratan_Pereira_Maciel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaury_Pasos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wlamir_Marques
Why is Toni Kukoc not on the international list? Hes one of the most accomplished players from overseas.

[demons2005]

For the USA I would actually go with Kobe. MJ never learned the international game because it wasn't really competitive when he played. I won't argue about which is the best basketball player but in terms of best players by country I give Kobe an advantage because of how he played for his country in MEANINGFUL games.

[RRR3]

For the USA I would actually go with Kobe. MJ never learned the international game because it wasn't really competitive when he played. I won't argue about which is the best basketball player but in terms of best players by country I give Kobe an advantage because of how he played for his country in MEANINGFUL games.
What...the...****...

[97 bulls]

What...the...****...
Im scratching my head as well. Jordan led two teams to Olympic gold medals. To Kobes 1. And id pit that Croatian team against any team that has played against the US Olympic dream teams.

[Jasi]

Italy - write off Antonello Riva, add Sandro Riminucci.

All time Starting 5 for Italy would be:

PG - Pierluigi Marzorati
SG - Sandro Riminucci
SF - Danilo Gallinari
PF - Walter Magnifico
C - Dino Meneghin

Sixth man - Carlton Myers

Also, Mike D'Antoni played with the Italian NT. So I might put him at PG instead of Marzorati.
I don't know if Pringles was the better player or the worse coach, lol

[RRR3]

I think this would be an interesting topic, and YES, it will include discussions about MANY NBA players, so it SHOULD be in this forum.


Argentina -

Manu Ginobili -
Luis Scola (honorable mention)


Australia -

Andrew Gaze -
David Andersen (honorable mention) -
Chris Anstey (honorable mention) -
Shane Heal (honorable mention) -
Luc Longley (honorable mention) -
Andrew Bogut (if you only want to count NBA)


Belgium -

Tony Parker (best Belgian born) -
Willy Steveniers (best Belgian player) -
Axel Hervelle (honorable mention) -
Tomas Van Den Spiegel (honorable mention) -
D. J. Mbenga (honorable mention)


Bosnia -

Mirza Delibasic -
Mirza Teletovic (honorable mention)


Brazil -

Oscar Schmidt


Bulgaria -

Atanas Golomeev -
Georgi Glouchkov (honorable mention)


Canada -

Steve Nash


China -

Yao Ming


Croatia -

Drazen Petrovic (based on how good the players were) -
Kresimir Cosic (based on body of work and accomplishments) -
Toni Kukoc (if you only want to count NBA) -
Dino Radja (honorable mention) -
Nikola Vujcic (honorable mention) -
Stojan Vrankovic (honorable mention)


Czech Republic -

Jiri Zidek Sr. -
Ivan Mrazek (honorable mention)


Dominican Republic -

Al Horford -
Jack Michael Martinez (honorable mention) -
Sammy Mejia (honorable mention)


England -

Carlton Myers (best English player)
Luol Deng (best with English citizenship, that is if you only want to count NBA) -
Ben Gordon (best English born if you only count the NBA)
John Amaechi (honorable mention)


France -

Dominique Wilkins (best French born) -
Tony Parker (best with French citizenship) -
Antoine Rigaudeau (honorable mention) -
Alain Gilles (honorable mention) -
Stephane Ostrowski (honorable mention) -
Richard Dacoury (honorable mention) -
Jean-Paul Beugnot (honorable mention) -


Germany -

Dirk Nowitzki -
Detlef Schrempf (honorable mention) -
Christian Welp (honorable mention)


Georgia -

Otar Korkia


Greece -

Nikos Galis (best Greek blood diaspora) -
Panagiotis Giannakis (best Greek born)


Hungary -

Ferenc Nemeth
Kornel David (honorable mention)


Iran -

Hamed Haddadi


Israel -

Miki Berkovich


Italy -

Dino Meneghin -
Pier Marzorati (honorable mention) -
Antonello Riva (honorable mention) -
Gregor F u c k a (honorable mention)
Aldo Ossola (honorable mention) -


Jordan -

Zaid Abbas


Latvia -

Janis Krumins -
Valdis Valters (honorable mention) -
Andris Biedrins (if you only want to count NBA)


Lebanon -

Rony Seikaly
Fadi El Khatib (honorable mention)


Lithuania -

Arvydas Sabonis (pre-injury), if considering post injury Sabonis, then -
Sarunas Marciulionis or Sarunas Jasikevicius


Mexico -

Manuel Raga -
Gustavo Ayon (honorable mention) -
Romel Beck (honorable mention)
Eduardo Najera (honorable mention) -


Montenegro -

Nikola Pekovic


Netherlands -

Rik Smits -
Swen Nater (honorable mention) -
Kees Akerboom Sr. (honorable mention)


New Zealand -

Kirk Penney -
Sean Marks (if you only want to count NBA) -
Pero Cameron (honorable mention)


Nigeria -

Hakeem Olajuwon


Peru -

Ricardo Duarte


Poland-

Marcin Gortat


Puerto Rico -

Jose Ortiz -
Teofilo Cruz (honorable mention) -
J.J. Barea (honorable mention) -
Carlos Arroyo (if you only want to count NBA)


Russia -

Andrei Kirilenko -

If you want to count Soviet Union/Russia as one for the actual Russian lineage players, then -

Sergey Belov


Scotland -

Robert Archibald


Serbia -

Hard to decide this one (probably Bodiroga or Dalipagic though), when they had players like -

Dejan Bodiroga -
Drazen Dalipagic -
Radivoj Korac -
Dragan Kicanovic -
Peja Stojakovic -
Vlade Divac -
Sasha Danilovic -
Sasha Djordjevic -

Slovakia -

Stanislav Kropilak -
Anton Gavel (honorable mention) -
Richard Petruska (honorable mention) -


Slovenia -

Ivo Daneu -
Goran Dragic (if you only want to count NBA)


Soviet Union -

Sergey Belov -
Alexander Belov (honorable mention)



Spain -

Juan Carlos Navarro (based on how good the players were) -
Pau Gasol (based on accomplishments) -
Epi (honorable mention) -
Juan Antonio Corbalan (honorable mention) -
Emiliano Rodriguez (honorable mention)


Tunisia -

Salah Mejri


Turkey -

Ibrahim Kutluay -
Mirsad Turkcan (honorable mention) -
Hedo Turkoglu (if you only want to count NBA)


Ukraine -

Vladimir Tkachenko -
Alexander Volkov (honorable mention) -
Viktor Khryapa (if you count him, since he is Ukraine born - honorable mention)


USA -

Michael Jordan -
Magic Johnson (honorable mention) -
Larry Bird (honorable mention)


US Virgin Islands -

Tim Duncan


Venezuela -

Greivis Vasquez -
Oscar Torres (honorable mention)
I forgot to add that Puerto Rico and Scotland techincally aren't countries either, although I realize that residents of each may often consider themselves seperate nations.

Anyways, Euroleague, you should add these countries to your OP (if you know international players who you think were better than list them, I am only going off NBA players):


Bahamas
Mychal Thompson


Cameroon
Luc Mbah a Moute


Democratic Republic of the Congo
Dikembe Mutombo


Jamaica
Patrick Ewing, Sr.


Japan
Yuta Tabuse


Panama
Rolando Blackman


Romania
Gheorghe Mursean


Info can be found here if you are interested in listing more countries: http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=CH&state=





@Millwad,
Jonas Jerebko?

[The Real JW]

Haiti: Samuel Dalembert

[Euroleague]

Italy - write off Antonello Riva, add Sandro Riminucci.

All time Starting 5 for Italy would be:

PG - Pierluigi Marzorati
SG - Sandro Riminucci
SF - Danilo Gallinari
PF - Walter Magnifico
C - Dino Meneghin

Sixth man - Carlton Myers

Also, Mike D'Antoni played with the Italian NT. So I might put him at PG instead of Marzorati.
I don't know if Pringles was the better player or the worse coach, lol

Carlton Myers was absolute beast mode......if we really want to consider him Italian, then he's one of the best ever for Italy. You lost me totally on Gallinari though........no way in hell.

[Euroleague]

Why is Toni Kukoc not on the international list? Hes one of the most accomplished players from overseas.

What do you mean? He's on the list.

Croatia -

Drazen Petrovic (based on how good the players were) -
Kresimir Cosic (based on body of work and accomplishments) -
Toni Kukoc (if you only want to count NBA) -
Dino Radja (honorable mention) -
Nikola Vujcic (honorable mention) -
Stojan Vrankovic (honorable mention)

He wasn't the best Croatian player, but he deserves to be mentioned. I even credited him with being the best Croatian based on only NBA career.

I don't think he really surpassed Drazen and Cosic career-wise overall though. So I'm not sure what you mean?

[Bandito]

I forgot about him. He was always a guy that played his heart out for the national team.
yeah I know. I love him too, He put everything on the line 100% of the time.

[gengiskhan]

Kobe Bryant - ITALY

[Grinder]

Uruguay - Esteban Batista
Puerto Rico - Larry Ayuso (honorable mention)
Gabon - Stephane Lasme
Central African Republic - Romain Sato
South Korea - Hur Jae
Switzerland - Thabo Sefolosha
Belize - Milt Palacio
Finland - Petteri Koponen
Tanzania - Hasheem Thabeet

[Euroleague]

I forgot to add that Puerto Rico and Scotland techincally aren't countries either, although I realize that residents of each may often consider themselves seperate nations.

Anyways, Euroleague, you should add these countries to your OP (if you know international players who you think were better than list them, I am only going off NBA players):


Bahamas
Mychal Thompson


Cameroon
Luc Mbah a Moute


Democratic Republic of the Congo
Dikembe Mutombo


Jamaica
Patrick Ewing, Sr.


Japan
Yuta Tabuse


Panama
Rolando Blackman


Romania
Gheorghe Mursean


Info can be found here if you are interested in listing more countries: http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/birthplaces.cgi?country=CH&state=





@Millwad,
Jonas Jerebko?

Yeah, that helps.

[scandisk_]

Philippines

Ramon Fernandez
Robert Jaworski

:lol

[PimpinZaZa]

Clearly Gaze is an all-time great. Playing 2 seasons in the NBA and averaging 3.1 PPG.


Andrew Gaze is the GOAT Australian Basketballer. No doubt at all, do some research and don't be a dick!

[magic chiongson]

all of europe: anthony parker


https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GaxYT56Bpb8/T1R4dERJYRI/AAAAAAAADMQ/4dBb6RDj6Jc/s800/AP%2520statue.jpg


:bowdown:

[The Real JW]

Kobe Bryant - ITALY

Nope. From Philadelphia, born and raised.

[Magic bird]

Andrew Gaze is the GOAT Australian Basketballer. No doubt at all, do some research and don't be a dick!
This, averaging 40 something points is no small deal even if it is the Australian league.

[outbreak]

Nope. From Philadelphia, born and raised.
Didn't he live in italy until mid teens hoping to be a soccer player until he started flying to the states to play summer leagues?

Vucevic will be up there for monte negro soon.
You have some players listed by birth/citizenship kyrie irving was born in australia

[Jasi]

Carlton Myers was absolute beast mode......if we really want to consider him Italian, then he's one of the best ever for Italy. You lost me totally on Gallinari though........no way in hell.

Lol, he's already a top 3 Italian player all time nd heading for the top spot, regardless of what you think about the Nba.

[Magic bird]

Serge Ibaka from Congo?

[Partizan]

Lol, he's already a top 3 Italian player all time nd heading for the top spot, regardless of what you think about the Nba.

Not sure if serious...
Can you please give some arguments why will Gallinari be GOAT Italian player? :D

Anyway, I think players that are playing or played for one National Team can not be consider as best players for other countries regardless of their origins.

Dalipagic, Kicanovic and Bodiroga are only Serbian players that are seriously considered as best of all time. Despite of Stojakovic NBA career noone thinks of him as a possible GOAT, Divac is ranked above him.

[I<3NBA]

Serge Ibaka from Congo?
no. he ain't about that life

[Jasi]

Not sure if serious...
Can you please give some arguments why will Gallinari be GOAT Italian player? :D



Simply because his combination of size, skills, IQ, mindset is unprecedented in Italy + he's the Italian with the best career in the best league in the world.

The only thing he has yet to show is being able to lead the Italian NT in a more decisive way than he has done so far, but it's not easy when your coach plays Marco freaking Belinelli at PG, who dribbles around for 20 seconds and then shoots a deep 3 most of the times.

[iznogood]

The only way this thread makes sense is if we choose the greatest players since it's impossible to compare players from different eras.



Slovenia - (lots of players on similar levels)

Ivo Daneu -

Gregor F u c k a (honorable mention) -
Jaka Lakovic (honorable mention) -
Erazem Lorbek (honorable mention) -
Rasho Nesterovic (honorable mention) -
Goran Dragic (if you only want to count NBA)

Matjaz Smodis (honorable mention) -
Bostjan Nachbar (honorable mention) -
Beno Udrih (honorable mention) -
Sani Becirovic (honorable mention) -
Sasha Vujacic (honorable mention) -
Primoz Brezec (honorable mention)


Jure Zdovc and Peter Vilfan deserve honorable mention, the others don't (not at this point). Zdovc won 2 ECs (89, 92), and a WC in 1990. He was considered the best defensive perimeter player in Europe in his prime. As a member of Yugoslavian team, Vilfan won gold and bronze in WC and gold an silver in EC. As for other players, Gregor Fu.cka is not even considered Slovenian player since he played for Italian national team all of his career. Sasha Vujacic shouldn't make any of the national GOAT lists and so shouldn't Brezec, Nachbar, Becirovic, Lorbek, Dragic, Udrih and Nachbar at this point. Marko Milic ranks higher then any of them (the first Slovenian ever to get drafted to the NBA, great EL career, made the famous over-the-car dunk).

[Euroleague]

Kobe Bryant - ITALY

I actually thought about listing Kobe for Italy, since he himself says that's where he learned to play basketball............but I didn't want the American NBA only fans to start a total shit storm over it, and hijack the thread.

But yeah, Kobe could be considered with Italy.

[Euroleague]

Lol, he's already a top 3 Italian player all time nd heading for the top spot, regardless of what you think about the Nba.

You are overrating Gallo to an extreme degree. He's not even better than Aradori.

[Euroleague]

The only way this thread makes sense is if we choose the greatest players since it's impossible to compare players from different eras.



Jure Zdovc and Peter Vilfan deserve honorable mention, the others don't (not at this point). Zdovc won 2 ECs (89, 92), and a WC in 1990. He was considered the best defensive perimeter player in Europe in his prime. As a member of Yugoslavian team, Vilfan won gold and bronze in WC and gold an silver in EC. As for other players, Gregor Fu.cka is not even considered Slovenian player since he played for Italian national team all of his career. Sasha Vujacic shouldn't make any of the national GOAT lists and so shouldn't Brezec, Nachbar, Becirovic, Lorbek, Dragic, Udrih and Nachbar at this point. Marko Milic ranks higher then any of them (the first Slovenian ever to get drafted to the NBA, great EL career, made the famous over-the-car dunk).

Zdovc yes....forgot about him. I listed F u c k a because people are getting all pissed off over nationalities. Wanting anyone connected to a country listed.

I am well aware that he played for Italy. As for Milic, he was an incredible athlete, but also an incredible idiot.

I just listed all of them because I can't really discern between them. None of them really stands out career-wise. I didn't mean they were Slovene GOATs. You misinterpreted that.

I mean, Greece has legit GOAT level players like Spanoulis, Diamantidis, Papaloukas, even slightly so ones like Fassoulas, Christodoulo. I didn't list such guys because Galis and Giannakis at this point stand out so far from the others. With Slovenia, it's not the case.

And I don't think listing someone like Lorbek or Dragic is the same as including Gallinari in a list as suggested. Because again, Slovenia does not have anyone like Meneghin in its basket history to stand so far out.

And as for Gallinari..............no. Spanoulis is on track to be #1 or #2 best Greek player when his career is over, and I didn't put him there, because this isn't a projection. It's based on the current circumstance. But again, I don't think Slovenia has anyone that stands so far out from say current players like Lorbek.

[Alan]

Estonia

Martin M

[Jasi]

You are overrating Gallo to an extreme degree. He's not even better than Aradori.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:

How was that? People should be banned for blatant ignorace?