does how you talk about bball on this forum reflect how u discuss ball in real life?

[STATUTORY]

particularly interested in hearing from the more stats minded fans on this board. I bartend a sports bar in a fairly good basketball city so we get some bball traffic and when the guys that discuss nba in the bar usually sound pretty unsophisticated compared to what gets thrown around here.

So I always wonder whether these guys are just dumbing down their convo for real life and whether they start quoting basketball reference once they get home and on the web or whether they are a different segment of fans entirely.

I'm guessing they are just casual fans mostly, so do you change how you talk about nba when you are in the company of casual fans or do you take pride in educating those guys?

[9erempiree]

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.

[9erempiree]

If you don't want to have to kick a guy's @ss or get provoked. Just say MJ. If you bring up someone else....there chest puffs out.:facepalm

[west_tip]

Its a little easier to construct a well thought out, articulate argument via the medium of a message board than it is when you are trying to get a word in edgeways at the local sports bar in my opinion.

That said I really think emoticons have an adverse effect on the quality of debate on ish since people sometimes rely on using them rather than addressing specifically the points someone made.

[STATUTORY]

If you don't want to have to kick a guy's @ss or get provoked. Just say MJ. If you bring up someone else....there chest puffs out.:facepalm

yea I try to stay out of discussions with patrons cause it can definitley get heated. I'm just glad I don't work in Chicago :facepalm

[TheBigVeto]

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!


LOL, no, you just 'agreed' because he would've kicked your ass otherwise.

[Levity]

Kind of. I generally rock the lel bron face when anyone says anything to me.

[tmacattack33]

Most of the people i i know and meet in person are casual fans, so you can only speak about real general things with them.

Like if i brought up the MVP race with a group of guys, it won't get anywhere...because everyone i'm talking to will have likely maybe seen one or two games from Lebron, Durant, and Paul this year tops.

They would probably just say something like "Lebron doesn't deserve it since he has Wade on his team...and Chris Paul is only getting 17 ppg...so I'd give to Durant".



..and I would usually just agree with them and move on, since we're usually at a bar or just hanging out and drinking and bullshitting...so in that situation i wouldn't want to try and get super serious and super detailed.

[TylerOO]

Kind of. I generally rock the lel bron face when anyone says anything to me.

:roll: :roll:

[Breezy]

I'm surrounded by Mexicans at work and on the street who's patent reaction to end any and all detailed basketball discussion is to say "KOBE!" Or.... "81 points, that's all I got to say"

The rare occasion when I'm talking to someone who is actually a fan of the sport and not a player I feel I have a high success rate in converting them to my opinions. I don't really do too much debating on here so the only difference would be since the average ish user is more informed than the average guy on the street I don't have to go as deep into the well of information in the real world as I would here to make my points.

[STATUTORY]

I'm surrounded by Mexicans at work and on the street who's patent reaction to end any and all detailed basketball discussion is to say "KOBE!" Or.... "81 points, that's all I got to say"

The rare occasion when I'm talking to someone who is actually a fan of the sport and not a player I feel I have a high success rate in converting them to my opinions. I don't really do too much debating on here so the only difference would be since the average ish user is more informed than the average guy on the street I don't have to go as deep into the well of information in the real world as I would here to make my points.

if u spoke spanish u would see some of those mexican fans are pretty knowledgable it's just a language barrier

[9erempiree]

You have to remember the general public are societies' sheep. They will say one thing and not even think of an argument for it.

This is the same with Michael Jordan. It's very politically correct to say he's the GOAT because people want to avoid confrontation. Sometimes I agree with them so they can shut the hell up with their drunk ramblings.

[Breezy]

if u spoke spanish u would see some of those mexican fans are pretty knowledgable it's just a language barrier
No dude. I'm talking about Mexicans who speak perfect English. I speak barely passable Spanish so I wouldn't get involved in any detailed discussion about anything with someone who doesn't speak English. Most of them probably weren't even born in Mexico. They're parents were.

[Breezy]

You have to remember the general public are societies' sheep. They will say one thing and not even think of an argument for it.

This is the same with Michael Jordan. It's very politically correct to say he's the GOAT because people want to avoid confrontation. Sometimes I agree with them so they can shut the hell up with their drunk ramblings.

I don't blame people or look down on them for not knowing as much as I do or the people on this forum. This website caters to a niche group of hardcore nba fans. Most people just catch a game on their day off and see the final score of games they missed on the local news. I spend time every day pouring over stats, reading columns, reading this website, watching my local team, watching league pass watching classic games, checking stats from games from before I was born.... I even modified my schedule at work so I could have wednesday and thursday off because those are the best nba days.... I have a problem. Most people don't invest themselves like that. It's no surprise that they have shallow views of the Nba.

[jstern]

It's very different. When I hear a teenager comparing players that they never saw play, and seeing how ignorant they sound since they're talking about something they are not familiar with, I dismiss them and move on with my day. Here since you can't see the person, who they are, you tend to get into it more.

[Magic bird]

I usually try to educate casual followers

[La Frescobaldi]

you got your high level of expertise and you got your junior high types, each at their own point in the spectrum. There's guys on here that should be banned from ever talking about basketball lol but there are a lot of guys that really know their stuff to so it ain't that much different really.

Thing is you get the entire internet world so you're gonna find the real-est hoops-heads world-wide on here. knowledge pool is deeper and wider. Look at that crazy dude Euroleague. I mean, he does rant but underneath is considerable knowledge. whether he is from Bosnia or France or Arkansas he does know a lot.

I have lived far out in rural parts of the country for long stretches and THAT was a problem finding people to talk about basketball at all. Especially back in the day. Internet is awesome for that, you can be out in the ocean on a schooner or in Wyoming or Peru and still find somebody to talk about Bob Lanier fighting with Dave Cowens or what the Bucks are up to tonight

[el gringos]

Good question. I can't even talk nugs on ish, the "nuggets fan" on ish are so far away from actual nuggets fans it makes it too hard to try. These kids from wherever in the world they're from make it impossible.

[La Frescobaldi]

Good question. I can't even talk nugs on ish, the "nuggets fan" on ish are so far away from actual nuggets fans it makes it too hard to try. These kids from wherever in the world they're from make it impossible.

Whereas any old watering hole on Colfax or Alameda you can find somebody ready to talk about Gallinari and Iggy, or the old days with Alex E. Or used to anyhow, they're probably all closed by now. Or even REAL old days with David Thompson and Danny Issel. Do you go that far back? I remember when they had the big changeover from the ABA!

DT gets all the credit for vertical but Dan Issel could really sky too. I saw Dan cut his head on the rim once on a running dunk. "Dr. Dunk" Darnell Hillman rammed into him in the paint and threw him off. You could almost see that little circle of stars going around his head but he stayed in the game, he looked like one of those patriots from the Revolutionary War they had a bandage on his head. nowadays they would bring the ambulance and wheelchair and play Rocky. Pierce is such a chump.
Issel claimed after that game he didn't actually hit the rim but that was modesty everybody saw him do it. Check him out right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYdGvLMF_0I

About 40 seconds you can see him get way high

[el gringos]

No I don't go back farther than dikembe/Abdul-rauf days- I'm mostly referring to the Carmelo leaving situation. On ish these nugs fans followed the world wide media take- every single nugs fan from "real life" understood that kroenke cutting payroll and g Karl played a huge part. Believe ish and he was leaving no matter what. In a frustrating time for real nuggets fans, ish nugs fans made it look like nuggets had no part in this and it was just "Carmelo is a prima Dona"


I will forever believe that had nugs not want 5 years without signing a single fa over min wage, cutting 30 million in payroll, and not trading Kmart things would be a lot different. Kroenke claimed and originally showed he would pay for a winner, and as soon as Carmelo (and nene/jr) got to the point of being ready to win ownership completely quit on them.

Kroenke and Karl forced Carmelo to leave more than "he just wanted to leave"

[La Frescobaldi]

No I don't go back farther than dikembe/Abdul-rauf days- I'm mostly referring to the Carmelo leaving situation. On ish these nugs fans followed the world wide media take- every single nugs fan from "real life" understood that kroenke cutting payroll and g Karl played a huge part. Believe ish and he was leaving no matter what. In a frustrating time for real nuggets fans, ish nugs fans made it look like nuggets had no part in this and it was just "Carmelo is a prima Dona"


I will forever believe that had nugs not want 5 years without signing a single fa over min wage, cutting 30 million in payroll, and not trading Kmart things would be a lot different. Kroenke claimed and originally showed he would pay for a winner, and as soon as Carmelo (and nene/jr) got to the point of being ready to win ownership completely quit on them.

Kroenke and Karl forced Carmelo to leave more than "he just wanted to leave"

I believe a lot of big league owners not just NBA have a farm team mentality. They aren't about winning rings, or even about winning at all, they are only interested in the pure business of finding talent, trading, getting big money from LA or NY, and profit margins and all that. Not saying the Nuggets are like that necessarily but there's lots of that out there.

[STATUTORY]

I believe a lot of big league owners not just NBA have a farm team mentality. They aren't about winning rings, or even about winning at all, they are only interested in the pure business of finding talent, trading, getting big money from LA or NY, and profit margins and all that. Not saying the Nuggets are like that necessarily but there's lots of that out there.

memphis trying to trade parts of a contending team is definitely kinda f@cked up

[Glide2keva]

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.It was incoherent to you because you're ****ing stupid if you really think Kobe is in ANY way better than Jordan.

It's not the common thing to say about MJ, it's just facts and you can't handle it.

[9erempiree]

It was incoherent to you because you're ****ing stupid if you really think Kobe is in ANY way better than Jordan.

It's not the common thing to say about MJ, it's just facts and you can't handle it.

prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.

[Glide2keva]

prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.
Not mad at all. Not even pissed. I'm pretty happy, my son turned 10 today and my daughter turned 16 yesterday. Going to be a fun weekend with my kids.

I'm just stating facts and the fact is Kobe is not in ANY way better than Jordan. The eye test proves it and the stats bare it out plain. No matter how many times you ridiculous fans say otherwise, smart basketball people know better. It's not even about titles.

[Legends66NBA7]

A rare few of my real life friends actually follow basketball from a game by game/die hard basis. Lot of them are casual fans, because of certain reasons:

1) They got responsibilities in their lives and can't follow basketball because their time is occupied.

2) Might have been a fan of a team or player for a while, but since they don't play anymore they aren't as interested in the NBA, but still like to know some stuff about the current NBA, via anything I tell them or they look it up themselves.

Regardless of the situation, I hear what they got to say or I tell them what's new about the league and players. I usually just tell them the positive things, so we have common understanding.

If it is with someone who has more basketball knowledge on the league and follows it, past and present, then I will probably talk about the things I do on here.

[Purch]

You'd be surprised, most casuals I talk to are basiclly a recreation of Alphawolf or Lebron23.

So it's not a major transition

[STATUTORY]

prime example ^^^^^

mad and pissed.
lol i see characters like that sometimes at the bar. sloppy, overweight middle age cornball still living vicariously through MJ with them air jordan kicks.

sits there knuckle deep in a tray of nachos and randomly chiming in on other customers convo about the game with some unwelcome comment about how they ain't like mike.

Inevitably I have to call them a taxi and they wander off into the night alone.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I make MOST fans like OP feel timid by my knowledge.

[Glide2keva]

lol i see characters like that sometimes at the bar. sloppy, overweight middle age cornball still living vicariously through MJ with them air jordan kicks.

sits there knuckle deep in a tray of nachos and randomly chiming in on other customers convo about the game with some unwelcome comment about how they ain't like mike.

Inevitably I have to call them a taxi and they wander off into the night alone.
You're funny.

I don't go to bars, too many people like you described and too many cocky and arrogant jerks looking to get the ever loving piss slapped out of them for being a douche bag, but wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight.

[Glide2keva]

I make MOST fans like OP feel timid by my knowledge.
This.

I've been watching the NBA for longer than there idiots have been alive.

[DaHeezy]

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.

I absolutely agree.

Jordan fans do not let anybody else form opinions that are anti-Jordan, you have to be PC. I'm the exact opposite since it's ISH who cannot accept any reasonable arguments.

Typical ISH response; "because there are no reasonable arguments"

I find my circle of real life peers are open for debate

[Glide2keva]

I absolutely agree.

Jordan fans do not let anybody else form opinions that are anti-Jordan, you have to be PC. I'm the exact opposite since it's ISH who cannot accept any reasonable arguments.

Typical ISH response; "because there are no reasonable arguments"

I find my circle of real life peers are open for debate
Please tell me what is to debate?

This fool said he tries to tell people that Kobe is better than Jordan. That's bullshit. As I said before, the eye test shows it and the stats bare it out. It's not that we don't like anti-Jordan discussions, just come with some knowledge of the game and how it is played and it's history before you say some stupid shit like Kobe is better than Jordan.

[DaHeezy]

Please tell me what is to debate?

This fool said he tries to tell people that Kobe is better than Jordan. That's bullshit. As I said before, the eye test shows it and the stats bare it out. It's not that we don't like anti-Jordan discussions, just come with some knowledge of the game and how it is played and it's history before you say some stupid shit like Kobe is better than Jordan.

Anything can be open for debate as sports is subjective. You can find any argument you like as long as it supports YOUR opinion. Do I think Kobe is better than Jordan? No. Do I automatically discredit somebody who does? Hell no. But guys like you immediately throw out any reasonable argument when it refutes Jordan's greatness, the defensiveness is stronger when Kobe's name is brought up.

I don't think it's a matter of Kobe supporters not coming up with a reasonable argument, it's Jordan supporters who tend to be 100% close minded.

[DaHeezy]

This.

I've been watching the NBA for longer than there idiots have been alive.

I've been watching the NBA since the early 80's. Yet my opinions are constantly refuted

[Legends66NBA7]

I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.

[DaHeezy]

I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.

Having said that, there are many co-factors that contribute to the success of an individual that any opinion can be argued.
As much as you say Kobe would not have garnered any success without such a quick start, the same argument can be made that Jordan may not have won titles without Pippen and P-Jax and an absolutely stellar crew.
This is what irks me the most is that an argument can be made for one but does not apply to the other. When it is brought up you're wrong or considered a troll.

[AlphaWolf24]

Not mad at all. Not even pissed. I'm pretty happy, my son turned 10 today and my daughter turned 16 yesterday. Going to be a fun weekend with my kids.

I'm just stating facts and the fact is Kobe is not in ANY way better than Jordan. The eye test proves it and the stats bare it out plain. No matter how many times you ridiculous fans say otherwise, smart basketball people know better. It's not even about titles.


- Lots of ignorant fans like this guy above on the east coast.....talking hoops over there and you get the whole "MJ>Kobe derp derp MVP's derp...."

- pheew...thank goodness I live on the west coast....with the real teams and real fans.

[AlphaWolf24]

I've had younger fans or fans my age say Kobe is better than Jordan. I have never thought the debate was ever serious. I still to this day never will forget what Bob Costas said during the 98 All-Star game:

"How will Kobe be the same player Jordan will be if Shaq is getting more shots than him ?"... Or something like... it's not exactly word for word, but that really put me as shrugging away Kobe vs Jordan comparison forever.

Kobe was never going to have a real shot at actually passing Jordan as individual player because he had to share the ball with Shaq for 8 season. And even at his best, it wasn't really at the level of a prime/peak Jordan anyways (just a level below).

But even if I were to take the fact Kobe was going to have that start, he wouldn't have had the rings total he did (I do think he could have won 3, maybe 4 titles, with the right supporting cast... anything more would have been impressive).

So it does strike me as odd that people I am close too... still like to debate Kobe vs Jordan today. Same goes for LeBron, Shaq, or Duncan... whoever else gets the Jordan comparison. I honestly hate all these comparison to 1 guy, because I feel you have to compare to the other below Jordan (Kareem, Russell, Wilt, etc...) before you can compare to consensus GOAT.

I guess maybe it's just a casual fan thing.


that's funny.....I was at a USF basketball camp in 1993....Ol' heads who watched Baylor , Russell and Chamberlain said the same thing about Jordan ..

"Jordan was never as good as Russell or Baylor"..."Jordan no matter what was never on Chamberlains level of dominance"


:confusedshrug:


just different era's and who they believe is the best

[Legends66NBA7]

that's funny.....I was at a USF basketball camp in 1993....Ol' heads who watched Baylor , Russell and Chamberlain said the same thing about Jordan ..

"Jordan was never as good as Russell or Baylor"..."Jordan no matter what was never on Chamberlains level of dominance"


:confusedshrug:


just different era's and who they believe is the best

Yeah, I get what your saying.

In the end, we kinda all got the same players ranking up somewhere as the best.

[Legends66NBA7]

Having said that, there are many co-factors that contribute to the success of an individual that any opinion can be argued.
As much as you say Kobe would not have garnered any success without such a quick start, the same argument can be made that Jordan may not have won titles without Pippen and P-Jax and an absolutely stellar crew.
This is what irks me the most is that an argument can be made for one but does not apply to the other. When it is brought up you're wrong or considered a troll.

Just to touch up on the bold, I didn't mean that the same scenario wouldn't be applied to Jordan.

You're right though, it's possible. But I think 7 years was long enough as it is for a player of Jordan's caliber. I can see Bryant also winning (with the correct team) in just as many years as the first option. I don't think takes anything away that much if did take longer years, though.

[No_Look604]

Man fcuk all of you! No way is Kobe close to Jordan.

And I've loved Kobe since the smush parker, kwame, luke days...

[DaHeezy]

Just to touch up on the bold, I didn't mean that the same scenario wouldn't be applied to Jordan.

You're right though, it's possible. But I think 7 years was long enough as it is for a player of Jordan's caliber. I can see Bryant also winning (with the correct team) in just as many years as the first option. I don't think takes anything away that much if did take longer years, though.

It wasn't directed towards you bro, it was more a blanket statement

[DaHeezy]

Man fcuk all of you! No way is Kobe close to Jordan.

And I've loved Kobe since the smush parker, kwame, luke days...

Statements like this doesn't give you more credibility, just like me saying I've watched NBA since the early 80's doesn't give me more credibility. It's all opinion based

Where in the 604 are you from?

[kmartshopper]

i post less in real life

[Mach_3]

Honestly i generally troll a little in real life because most people don't watch basketball or have the knowledge that most on here have. and besides it's way funnier to hear ppl's reactions and how heated ppl get trying to protect their favorite players :lol

[Money 23]

I'm surrounded by Mexicans at work and on the street who's patent reaction to end any and all detailed basketball discussion is to say "KOBE!" Or.... "81 points, that's all I got to say"
You just described the VAST majority of "Laker Fans" ... stick to soccer fellas, oh and cutting lawns.

[TheBigVeto]

You just described the VAST majority of "Laker Fans" ... stick to soccer fellas, oh and cutting lawns.

There are also too many Asian "Laker Fans".
It's bizarre. Kobe ended Yao Ming's career and flagrant fouled minorities including latino players like Manu (the true 2nd GOAT SG). Yet Asians and Mexicans root for this bastard and the shit team.
They should be ashamed of themselves.

[Calabis]

I'm more "politically correct" in public.

I was telling someone at the bar how Kobe is better than MJ and he went on this incoherent rambling about how MJ has 6 rings and the most popular athlete in the world. I just basically agreed with his so he can stfu!

It's like how you explain one player is better than the other and "Mr. Politically Correct" brings up MJ as the greatest player ever. I think they do it, so they avoid fights. It's like the common thing to say about MJ even though you don't agree with it.

Or it could be that he doesn't spend his entire life at a alter, worshiping his favorite player, like you and the other Kobe zealots. Most people with general knowledge of the game and seen both guys play usually say MJ. Its amazing how young guys like you, who only have watched highlight reels or you tube videos come the the conclusion that Kobe is better, yet the guys who have seen both guys 99% of the time say Jordan.

I'm going to laugh my ass off 10 to 15 years from now when people are saying Abdul Zahir from IRAQ, is the best player ever and you and the Kobeville Council are trying to explain Kobe's prime

[9erempiree]

Or it could be that he doesn't spend his entire life at a alter, worshiping his favorite player, like you and the other Kobe zealots. Most people with general knowledge of the game and seen both guys play usually say MJ. Its amazing how young guys like you, who only have watched highlight reels or you tube videos come the the conclusion that Kobe is better, yet the guys who have seen both guys 99% of the time say Jordan.

I'm going to laugh my ass off 10 to 15 years from now when people are saying Abdul Zahir from IRAQ, is the best player ever and you and the Kobeville Council are trying to explain Kobe's prime

They are only saying MJ is better to be "politically correct" to avoid confrontations that come with following sports. These are society's sheep. They don't want to form their own opinion nor do they even go out of their way to put a little research.

[Calabis]

They are only saying MJ is better to be "politically correct" to avoid confrontations that come with following sports. These are society's sheep. They don't want to form their own opinion nor do they even go out of their way to put a little research.

LMAO!! No they are no saying it because its not that hard to see. I have seen both play and Kobe is in no shape or form better than Jordan(its not this huge gap like some morons make it seem, but Jordan was just better). My old ass dad states Wilt is the best he has seen, thinks Jordan was close, but not as dominant(If you want to bring up Wilt, Kareem, Russell, fine). Also, I guess most guys that have played at that level and played with/against both guys who constantly say MJ are also being politically correct? No its just since they are not saying your hero, you guys come up with another excuse.

[Calabis]

Also the biggest difference for me is that I'm not surrounded by Kobe alter boyz, so I actually enjoy watching him play. Hopefully I still make my trip on the 18th to watch him live, since he won't be around much longer.

[9erempiree]

LMAO!! No they are no saying it because its not that hard to see. I have seen both play and Kobe is in no shape or form better than Jordan(its not this huge gap like some morons make it seem, but Jordan was just better). My old ass dad states Wilt is the best he has seen, thinks Jordan was close, but not as dominant(If you want to bring up Wilt, Kareem, Russell, fine). Also, I guess most guys that have played at that level and played with/against both guys who constantly say MJ are also being politically correct? No its just since they are not saying your hero, you guys come up with another excuse.

Yes, they are being politically correct. Someone like Wilt who was very dominant during his time is not considered the GOAT but people have no problem saying MJ is.

Like I said, it's an easy way to avoid arguments. The old cliche, MJ is the greatest and there is no debate.:facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Also the biggest difference for me is that I'm not surrounded by Kobe alter boyz, so I actually enjoy watching him play. Hopefully I still make my trip on the 18th to watch him live, since he won't be around much longer.


- why U gotta say that??....:cry: :cry: :cry:

- FU man!....FU!!!!!!!!!!!!!



PS: March 18h??...vs PHX....

That will be the 10 year anniversary of the "changing of the guard game"...otherwise known as the "Kobe shits so bad on MJ he made MJ cry"....aka" Kobe scores 42 points in 1 half".....game.


you lucky b@stard!

[Calabis]

Yes, they are being politically correct. Someone like Wilt who was very dominant during his time is not considered the GOAT but people have no problem saying MJ is.

Like I said, it's an easy way to avoid arguments. The old cliche, MJ is the greatest and there is no debate.:facepalm

Uhh where have you been? I have heard plenty of people say Wilt is the best they have seen, problem is that your whole debate realm is here...how many old ass dudes do you actually think post on here that witnessed Wilt play? I'll say 1 if that. Try finding some old dude that seems to be an fan of the game and ask him who he best he has seen. Oscar Robertson/Wilt Chamberlin/Baylor is usually what I have heard. Some think they were every bit as good as MJ, some think they where better....Jordan himself doesn't consider himself GOAT because he didn't get to play against those past greats.

And its funny, because when people do post a thread pro Wilt, the Kobe gang, retorts that Wilt couldn't play into today's NBA, because all he played against was short white guys....todays NBA is weak with bigs, yet the most freakish and one of the biggest/strongest to ever play, would struggle :facepalm yeah ok...just like MJ, one of the strongest most athletic freaks of nature at the 2 guard position ever to play, would be lucky to start against the likes of todays great wing players..yeah ok:oldlol:

[Money 23]

Look, Kobe is close to MJ. He at times presents the image of being the same caliber of player. But he's ultimately NOT as good. Anyone who has watched both play can see that clear as day. In fact, I've never heard anyone OFF ISH flat out make even a case that Kobe is better.

Just LA native mexican, asians, canadian, psycho Laker / Kobe stans. That little run he had at his peak, when defense was at their weakest in '06 and '07 and league rules were soft as hell put a spell on some people, as well as some very high scoring games against meager opponents. Myself included for a VERY brief period of time. Was this guy as great as Mike? Ultimately he proved over the next several years he wasn't.

And even at Kobe's absolute peak, he still wasn't as great as Jordan. Anyone arguing otherwise is blinded by the very comparable SKILLS they both share, many of which Kobe directly copied Jordan's move arsenal, specifically in the post with footwork, the jumper, the fadeaway, etc.

Kobe at times over the course of his career has tried to compare himself to the Jordan standard. Trying to APPEAR to play full bore defense the way MJ did at all times. But really, he's a show pony in that regards. Yes, there is times he will be a lock down defender, but he usually conserves his energy on that end in order to appear like a dominant offensive weapon akin to Jordan. And when he does dominant offensively, it seems he has to do it in a different manner than MJ. Jordan could be DESTRUCTIVE with his offense within a team setting. Kobe has to go off on what seem like solo endeavors ignoring all teammates, and alienating himself just to get his. MJ did his damage a lot more within the natural flow of the game. Thus making him BETTER.

I mean for mexican Kobe kids who use the 81 point game to prop up Kobe's career (his most enduring memory being a regular season game v.s. a lowly Raptor team) ... do you honestly believe that MJ at his absolute peak (1990, 1991, or 1992) going out every night on a team not competing for a championship, and asked to just score (sacrificing energy on defense) wouldn't have been able to put up some down right FRIGHTENING numbers?

Not a lot of players can score 50+, 60+, or even 70 / 80+ ... but a lot of the games ELITE all-time could given the right circumstance. See David Thompson, George Gervin, David Robinson.

81 points ... It's not as impressive as I was lead to believe at first. To me a more impressive player is someone who dominates the best competition, when pressure is at it's highest. Usually that's the playoffs. When everyone is trying their absolute hardest. Otherwise, you become a glorified blow fish. Making yourself seem bigger and badder against inferior competition.

Yes, Kobe kids, their games resemble one another. Only difference is Kobe favors low percentage hero shots (3 balls) that create higher VOLUME scoring. MJ was a man of equal skill, greater athleticism, greater competitive tenacity, better bball IQ, and favored highlight reel and electric fearless drives to the basket over shots that bail out a defense like 3 pointers.

Kobe's close, but he simply is NOT Jordan. MJ dominated his peers at a higher level than Kobe has done to his contemporaries.

[Calabis]

- why U gotta say that??....:cry: :cry: :cry:

- FU man!....FU!!!!!!!!!!!!!



PS: March 18h??...vs PHX....

That will be the 10 year anniversary of the "changing of the guard game"...otherwise known as the "Kobe shits so bad on MJ he made MJ cry"....aka" Kobe scores 42 points in 1 half".....game.


you lucky b@stard!

My boy has season tickets, I missed last years games...I usually get in one Lakers game and the Bulls of course

[9erempiree]

Look, Kobe is close to MJ. He at times presents the image of being the same caliber of player. But he's ultimately NOT as good. Anyone who has watched both play can see that clear as day. In fact, I've never heard anyone OFF ISH flat out make even a case that Kobe is better.

Just LA native mexican, asians, canadian, psycho Laker / Kobe stans. That little run he had at his peak, when defense was at their weakest in '06 and '07 and league rules were soft as hell put a spell on some people, as well as some very high scoring games against meager opponents. Myself included for a VERY brief period of time. Was this guy as great as Mike? Ultimately he proved over the next several years he wasn't.

And even at Kobe's absolute peak, he still wasn't as great as Jordan. Anyone arguing otherwise is blinded by the very comparable SKILLS they both share, many of which Kobe directly copied Jordan's move arsenal, specifically in the post with footwork, the jumper, the fadeaway, etc.

Kobe at times over the course of his career has tried to compare himself to the Jordan standard. Trying to APPEAR to play full bore defense the way MJ did at all times. But really, he's a show pony in that regards. Yes, there is times he will be a lock down defender, but he usually conserves his energy on that end in order to appear like a dominant offensive weapon akin to Jordan. And when he does dominant offensively, it seems he has to do it in a different manner than MJ. Jordan could be DESTRUCTIVE with his offense within a team setting. Kobe has to go off on what seem like solo endeavors ignoring all teammates, and alienating himself just to get his. MJ did his damage a lot more within the natural flow of the game. Thus making him BETTER.

I mean for mexican Kobe kids who use the 81 point game to prop up Kobe's career (his most enduring memory being a regular season game v.s. a lowly Raptor team) ... do you honestly believe that MJ at his absolute peak (1990, 1991, or 1992) going out every night on a team not competing for a championship, and asked to just score (sacrificing energy on defense) wouldn't have been able to put up some down right FRIGHTENING numbers?

Not a lot of players can score 50+, 60+, or even 70 / 80+ ... but a lot of the games ELITE all-time could given the right circumstance. See David Thompson, George Gervin, David Robinson.

81 points ... It's not as impressive as I was lead to believe at first. To me a more impressive player is someone who dominates the best competition, when pressure is at it's highest. Usually that's the playoffs. When everyone is trying their absolute hardest. Otherwise, you become a glorified blow fish. Making yourself seem bigger and badder against inferior competition.

Yes, Kobe kids, their games resemble one another. Only difference is Kobe favors low percentage hero shots (3 balls) that create higher VOLUME scoring. MJ was a man of equal skill, greater athleticism, greater competitive tenacity, better bball IQ, and favored highlight reel and electric fearless drives to the basket over shots that bail out a defense like 3 pointers.

Kobe's close, but he simply is NOT Jordan. MJ dominated his peers at a higher level than Kobe has done to his contemporaries.

all opinions and I have heard this before amongst the drunks at the bar.

To counter these drunks, I use statistics and the eye test. I would have basketball reference on my phone and point out the MJ's era was more running and gunning and no defense was played.

If you made one great defensive play in a game, you were considered a lockdown defender for the next 2 games.

With that said, imagine if Player A played in an era when running and gunning was he norm.

[Calabis]

Look, Kobe is close to MJ. He at times presents the image of being the same caliber of player. But he's ultimately NOT as good. Anyone who has watched both play can see that clear as day. In fact, I've never heard anyone OFF ISH flat out make even a case that Kobe is better.

Just LA native mexican, asians, canadian, psycho Laker / Kobe stans. That little run he had at his peak, when defense was at their weakest in '06 and '07 and league rules were soft as hell put a spell on some people, as well as some very high scoring games against meager opponents. Myself included for a VERY brief period of time. Was this guy as great as Mike? Ultimately he proved over the next several years he wasn't.

And even at Kobe's absolute peak, he still wasn't as great as Jordan. Anyone arguing otherwise is blinded by the very comparable SKILLS they both share, many of which Kobe directly copied Jordan's move arsenal, specifically in the post with footwork, the jumper, the fadeaway, etc.

Kobe at times over the course of his career has tried to compare himself to the Jordan standard. Trying to APPEAR to play full bore defense the way MJ did at all times. But really, he's a show pony in that regards. Yes, there is times he will be a lock down defender, but he usually conserves his energy on that end in order to appear like a dominant offensive weapon akin to Jordan. And when he does dominant offensively, it seems he has to do it in a different manner than MJ. Jordan could be DESTRUCTIVE with his offense within a team setting. Kobe has to go off on what seem like solo endeavors ignoring all teammates, and alienating himself just to get his. MJ did his damage a lot more within the natural flow of the game. Thus making him BETTER.

I mean for mexican Kobe kids who use the 81 point game to prop up Kobe's career (his most enduring memory being a regular season game v.s. a lowly Raptor team) ... do you honestly believe that MJ at his absolute peak (1990, 1991, or 1992) going out every night on a team not competing for a championship, and asked to just score (sacrificing energy on defense) wouldn't have been able to put up some down right FRIGHTENING numbers?

Not a lot of players can score 50+, 60+, or even 70 / 80+ ... but a lot of the games ELITE all-time could given the right circumstance. See David Thompson, George Gervin, David Robinson.

81 points ... It's not as impressive as I was lead to believe at first. To me a more impressive player is someone who dominates the best competition, when pressure is at it's highest. Usually that's the playoffs. When everyone is trying their absolute hardest. Otherwise, you become a glorified blow fish. Making yourself seem bigger and badder against inferior competition.

Yes, Kobe kids, their games resemble one another. Only difference is Kobe favors low percentage hero shots (3 balls) that create higher VOLUME scoring. MJ was a man of equal skill, greater athleticism, greater competitive tenacity, better bball IQ, and favored highlight reel and electric fearless drives to the basket over shots that bail out a defense like 3 pointers.

Kobe's close, but he simply is NOT Jordan. MJ dominated his peers at a higher level than Kobe has done to his contemporaries.

this may be the best comparison post I have seen :bowdown:

[wakencdukest]

There are also too many Asian "Laker Fans".
It's bizarre. Kobe ended Yao Ming's career and flagrant fouled minorities including latino players like Manu (the true 2nd GOAT SG). Yet Asians and Mexicans root for this bastard and the shit team.
They should be ashamed of themselves.


Hey genius, the reason they have so many Asian and Mexican fans is because LA has the biggest Mexican and probably the biggest Asian population in the country. Do you ever say anything remotely smart or interesting? By the way, who do you root for? Because I've never seen you post anything except anti-Laker bullshit. What happened to you? When did you become so obsessed with hating the Lakers? Did Kobe rape you when you were young or something?

[Money 23]

Attention all Kobe mexicano kids, go eat your favorite burrito and take solace in knowing Kobe's the next best SG to Jordan. That's all he ever will be. An all-time great, no shame in that at all.

The greatest mimmic of Jordan there ever will be. In fact he's the "cover band" version of MJ. Like the fake Elvis you see in Las Vegas.

Kobe's a legend no doubt, but he will never fill those sneakers with the name AIR on it. He had his shot, he failed.

[9erempiree]

Attention all Kobe kids, go eat your favorite burrito and take solace in knowing Kobe's the next best SG to Jordan. That's all he ever will be. An all-time great. The greatest mimmick of Jordan there ever will be. In fact he's the "cover band" version of MJ. Like the fake Elvis you see in Las Vegas. Kobe's a legend no doubt, but he will never fill those sneakers with the name AIR on it. He had his shot, he failed.

^^^ exactly what you hear from the drunks.

Ok, I will agree with you. Put the beer down.:facepalm

See what I mean ISH?

[AlphaWolf24]

Look, Kobe is close to MJ. He at times presents the image of being the same caliber of player. But he's ultimately NOT as good. Anyone who has watched both play can see that clear as day. In fact, I've never heard anyone OFF ISH flat out make even a case that Kobe is better.

Just LA native mexican, asians, canadian, psycho Laker / Kobe stans. That little run he had at his peak, when defense was at their weakest in '06 and '07 and league rules were soft as hell put a spell on some people, as well as some very high scoring games against meager opponents. Myself included for a VERY brief period of time. Was this guy as great as Mike? Ultimately he proved over the next several years he wasn't.

And even at Kobe's absolute peak, he still wasn't as great as Jordan. Anyone arguing otherwise is blinded by the very comparable SKILLS they both share, many of which Kobe directly copied Jordan's move arsenal, specifically in the post with footwork, the jumper, the fadeaway, etc.

Kobe at times over the course of his career has tried to compare himself to the Jordan standard. Trying to APPEAR to play full bore defense the way MJ did at all times. But really, he's a show pony in that regards. Yes, there is times he will be a lock down defender, but he usually conserves his energy on that end in order to appear like a dominant offensive weapon akin to Jordan. And when he does dominant offensively, it seems he has to do it in a different manner than MJ. Jordan could be DESTRUCTIVE with his offense within a team setting. Kobe has to go off on what seem like solo endeavors ignoring all teammates, and alienating himself just to get his. MJ did his damage a lot more within the natural flow of the game. Thus making him BETTER.

I mean for mexican Kobe kids who use the 81 point game to prop up Kobe's career (his most enduring memory being a regular season game v.s. a lowly Raptor team) ... do you honestly believe that MJ at his absolute peak (1990, 1991, or 1992) going out every night on a team not competing for a championship, and asked to just score (sacrificing energy on defense) wouldn't have been able to put up some down right FRIGHTENING numbers?

Not a lot of players can score 50+, 60+, or even 70 / 80+ ... but a lot of the games ELITE all-time could given the right circumstance. See David Thompson, George Gervin, David Robinson.

81 points ... It's not as impressive as I was lead to believe at first. To me a more impressive player is someone who dominates the best competition, when pressure is at it's highest. Usually that's the playoffs. When everyone is trying their absolute hardest. Otherwise, you become a glorified blow fish. Making yourself seem bigger and badder against inferior competition.

Yes, Kobe kids, their games resemble one another. Only difference is Kobe favors low percentage hero shots (3 balls) that create higher VOLUME scoring. MJ was a man of equal skill, greater athleticism, greater competitive tenacity, better bball IQ, and favored highlight reel and electric fearless drives to the basket over shots that bail out a defense like 3 pointers.

Kobe's close, but he simply is NOT Jordan. MJ dominated his peers at a higher level than Kobe has done to his contemporaries.


- It was actually MJ's scoring that hindered his teamates.....when he left in 94' 3 Bull's players had thier best seasons and made the allstar team.....Scotie Pippen had his best season without MJ...and nearly won MVP.

- when Kobe's teamates leave.... most of them don't even look good enough to be in the NBA

- Jordan was free to score without any pressure of winning ( before Phil arrived)...MJ took 23 - 26 FG attempts per game.....and his teams were stepping stones for the Bucs , Celtics and Pistons....MJ put up similar numbers to Kobe's 06' - 08' runs:confusedshrug:

- Kobe also could have scored 81 or more vs the Mavs in 06' ....the same Mavs who had top ranked defense...he scored 62 in 3 quarters....just as impressive.....he also ranks at the top of playoff point sscored and 30 - 40 point playoff games.

- Kobes overall offensive efficiency is only 1.2% TS below Jordans......and he played in a much different Defensive era...

- saying he is ennificient is just a blatant lie..and he has more all nba defensive teams then Jordan also....

- Kobe has too many enduring memories..81 is amazing 62 in 3 is Epic ...merking Jordan making him cry was inspiring....Jordans most amazing game 63 points was a loss...even when he played his best...Bird still merked him.

- I watched both players whole careers.....Both players do certain things better then each other....very similar players with similar results....

saying 1 is better then the other is just silly......magic and Bird were just as good...and played thier peaks in a much better era.....enjoy them for waht they are....Great players.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I called my mom a f.aggot because she didn't agree with me that lebron was the GOAT

[DaHeezy]

Look, Kobe is close to MJ. He at times presents the image of being the same caliber of player. But he's ultimately NOT as good. Anyone who has watched both play can see that clear as day. In fact, I've never heard anyone OFF ISH flat out make even a case that Kobe is better.

Just LA native mexican, asians, canadian, psycho Laker / Kobe stans. That little run he had at his peak, when defense was at their weakest in '06 and '07 and league rules were soft as hell put a spell on some people, as well as some very high scoring games against meager opponents. Myself included for a VERY brief period of time. Was this guy as great as Mike? Ultimately he proved over the next several years he wasn't.

And even at Kobe's absolute peak, he still wasn't as great as Jordan. Anyone arguing otherwise is blinded by the very comparable SKILLS they both share, many of which Kobe directly copied Jordan's move arsenal, specifically in the post with footwork, the jumper, the fadeaway, etc.

Kobe at times over the course of his career has tried to compare himself to the Jordan standard. Trying to APPEAR to play full bore defense the way MJ did at all times. But really, he's a show pony in that regards. Yes, there is times he will be a lock down defender, but he usually conserves his energy on that end in order to appear like a dominant offensive weapon akin to Jordan. And when he does dominant offensively, it seems he has to do it in a different manner than MJ. Jordan could be DESTRUCTIVE with his offense within a team setting. Kobe has to go off on what seem like solo endeavors ignoring all teammates, and alienating himself just to get his. MJ did his damage a lot more within the natural flow of the game. Thus making him BETTER.

I mean for mexican Kobe kids who use the 81 point game to prop up Kobe's career (his most enduring memory being a regular season game v.s. a lowly Raptor team) ... do you honestly believe that MJ at his absolute peak (1990, 1991, or 1992) going out every night on a team not competing for a championship, and asked to just score (sacrificing energy on defense) wouldn't have been able to put up some down right FRIGHTENING numbers?

Not a lot of players can score 50+, 60+, or even 70 / 80+ ... but a lot of the games ELITE all-time could given the right circumstance. See David Thompson, George Gervin, David Robinson.

81 points ... It's not as impressive as I was lead to believe at first. To me a more impressive player is someone who dominates the best competition, when pressure is at it's highest. Usually that's the playoffs. When everyone is trying their absolute hardest. Otherwise, you become a glorified blow fish. Making yourself seem bigger and badder against inferior competition.

Yes, Kobe kids, their games resemble one another. Only difference is Kobe favors low percentage hero shots (3 balls) that create higher VOLUME scoring. MJ was a man of equal skill, greater athleticism, greater competitive tenacity, better bball IQ, and favored highlight reel and electric fearless drives to the basket over shots that bail out a defense like 3 pointers.

Kobe's close, but he simply is NOT Jordan. MJ dominated his peers at a higher level than Kobe has done to his contemporaries.

Good post but this is all speculating. It's based entirely on an opinion and not factual information.
Of course Jordan supporters will praise this and Kobe supporters will refute this. Proof that people will only raise points that support their own opinion, and this post is entirely opinion

[Calabis]

all opinions and I have heard this before amongst the drunks at the bar.

To counter these drunks, I use statistics and the eye test. I would have basketball reference on my phone and point out the MJ's era was more running and gunning and no defense was played.

If you made one great defensive play in a game, you were considered a lockdown defender for the next 2 games.

With that said, imagine if Player A played in an era when running and gunning was he norm.

You say run and gun....quick question that would be a reference to Pace they played at correct?

[La Frescobaldi]

that's funny.....I was at a USF basketball camp in 1993....Ol' heads who watched Baylor , Russell and Chamberlain said the same thing about Jordan ..

"Jordan was never as good as Russell or Baylor"..."Jordan no matter what was never on Chamberlains level of dominance"


:confusedshrug:


just different era's and who they believe is the best


There's still a few of us ol' heads around saying some of those kinds of things.

[AlphaWolf24]

There's still a few of us ol' heads around saying some of those kinds of things.


NB4 J Baurs wall of text.

( wait he done posted himself out of the interwebz)

[La Frescobaldi]

NB4 J Baurs wall of text.

( wait he done posted himself out of the interwebz)
LMAO

he seems to be retired from ISH tho

[Kews1]

If you don't want to have to kick a guy's @ss or get provoked. Just say MJ. If you bring up someone else....there chest puffs out.:facepalm
http://troll.me/images/yoda-senses/yoda-senses-internet-tough-guy.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

Ima little biased towards kobe IRL discussions, I keep it real here.

[Calabis]

Ima little biased towards kobe IRL discussions, I keep it real here.

Nothing wrong with that, he's the best player of his generation and your era of watching the game. I just don't think he's better than what I witnessed in Jordan. Like I said its not this huge gap as some make it seem. I always personally felt that their talent is damn near equal, but Jordan was just a smarter player. Each do things slightly better than the other, but imo Kobe is just a lesser version of MJ and probably the closet we will see

[La Frescobaldi]

Nothing wrong with that, he's the best player of his generation and your era of watching the game. I just don't think he's better than what I witnessed in Jordan. Like I said its not this huge gap as some make it seem. I always personally felt that their talent is damn near equal, but Jordan was just a smarter player. Each do things slightly better than the other, but imo Kobe is just a lesser version of MJ and probably the closet we will see

Kobe8 = really was pretty much incredible

[Calabis]

- It was actually MJ's scoring that hindered his teamates.....when he left in 94' 3 Bull's players had thier best seasons and made the allstar team.....Scotie Pippen had his best season without MJ...and nearly won MVP.

:facepalm Jordan just won 3 chips in a row, while leading the league in scoring, yet he hindered his teammates prior to 94...:biggums: Am I the only one seeing this shit?

- when Kobe's teamates leave.... most of them don't even look good enough to be in the NBA

When Kobe came in he came to a 50 win team, with a TOP 10 GOAT and already established superstar, but yeah I guess Kobe made Shaq the dominant force he was and allowed him those three finals MVPS and allowed him to put up some of the greatest finals performances in NBA History:rolleyes:

- Jordan was free to score without any pressure of winning ( before Phil arrived)...MJ took 23 - 26 FG attempts per game.....and his teams were stepping stones for the Bucs , Celtics and Pistons....MJ put up similar numbers to Kobe's 06' - 08' runs:confusedshrug:

Jordan was free to score, because he was an immediate stud and the Bulls had no one else to ease his burden, until Pippen matured...kinda like the excuse u use for Kobe after Shaq left and the lakers sucked. Also Kobe was losing to Nash, while Jordan was losing to teams stacked with HOF'mers, nice comparison :hammerhead:

- Kobe also could have scored 81 or more vs the Mavs in 06' ....the same Mavs who had top ranked defense...he scored 62 in 3 quarters....just as impressive.....he also ranks at the top of playoff point sscored and 30 - 40 point playoff games.

Wow just wow, Jordan in playoffs against the #1 rated defense in a 5 game series...he dominated the series, unfortunately he had no help. Kobe 62 in the regular season(because he never has these outbursts in the playoffs) shot more free throws in three quarters 25, than Jordan did all game against the Celtics in a far more physical league

- Kobes overall offensive efficiency is only 1.2% TS below Jordans......and he played in a much different Defensive era...

LOL...TS%, gtfoh with this garbage, we don't need free throws/extra points for 3 pointers added...if this stat is so legit, then why are win shares descreditied by Kobehomers? Oh I know, because out of all the GOAT candidates he is solo on the never led his team in this advanced created stat...give me how many shots you took and how many you missed, that's all that's needed


- saying he is ennificient is just a blatant lie..and he has more all nba defensive teams then Jordan also....

He is inefficient in comparison to MJ, him making a three doesn't count as 1.5 shots made....does he have a DPOY award, steals titles, where is he on the block list for guards, how about rebounding...KObe was not as good as a defender as Jordan

- Kobe has too many enduring memories..81 is amazing 62 in 3 is Epic ...merking Jordan making him cry was inspiring....Jordans most amazing game 63 points was a loss...even when he played his best...Bird still merked him.

Bird, Mchale, Parrish, DJ, and a deep bench merked his sorry ass Bulls, I can really see you watched the NBA back then

- I watched both players whole careers.....Both players do certain things better then each other....very similar players with similar results....

Yet one copied the other, and is a lesser version then he original its simple

saying 1 is better then the other is just silly......magic and Bird were just as good...and played thier peaks in a much better era.....enjoy them for waht they are....Great players.

Prime Magic and Prime Bird were just as good in there primes, but Jordan dominated both ends of the court and was just a more dominant player when looking at their entire careers....Bird prior to injury would give MJ a run for his money and may have been better then he was(scary)



I doubt you watched 80's basketball like you claim, you were probably 5 or 6 and remember those players, but have no idea how good they were

[nightprowler10]

Baseball and football have a bigger following around where I live. I hardly ever interact with anyone who's not a Bulls fan though, just that basketball isn't always as talked about. Just how it is around here. I'll see a Lakers fan or a Miami bandwagoner once in a while and troll the **** out of them. I'd actually say I'm a huge sports troll in general IRL than I am in any of the forums I visit. Where's the fun in doing it online? :lol