According to new study, New Zealand is "most free" country in the world. [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

D-Rose

01-12-2013, 12:23 PM

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858183

New Zealand leads the way in human freedom according to an international index that ranks 123 countries.

The Canadian Fraser Institute has released its report evaluating how each country measures in security and safety, movement, expression and relationship freedoms.

New Zealand topped the index as offering the highest level of human freedom worldwide, followed by the Netherlands and Hong Kong.

Australia came in fourth. The US ranked seventh.

The United Kingdom ranked 18th, ahead of France at 33 and Germany, which came in 35th on the list.

The lowest-ranked countries were Zimbabwe, Burma, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Syria.

The index was contained in a new book, Towards a Worldwide Index of Human Freedom, which examined the characteristics of freedom and how it could best be measured and compared between different nations.

The book's editor, Fred McMahon, said the intention was to measure the degree to which people were free to enjoy classic civil liberties-freedom of speech, religion, individual economic choice, and association and assembly-in each country surveyed.

"We also look at indicators of crime and violence, freedom of movement, legal discrimination against homosexuals, and women's freedoms."

The Fraser Institute is an independent Canadian public policy research and educational organisation.

Top 10 Countries:

1. New Zealand

2. Netherlands

3. Hong Kong

4. Australia

4. Canada

4. Ireland

7. United States of America

7. Denmark

9. Japan

9. Estonia

Bottom 10 Countries:

114. Cameroon

115. Burundi

116. Iran

117. Algeria

118. Democratic Republic of Congo

119. Syria

120. Sri Lanka

121. Pakistan

122. Burma

123. Zimbabwe

"Land of the Free" is only at 7.

Bano114

01-12-2013, 12:38 PM

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858183

"Land of the Free" is only at 7.

Hong Kong is a country? :wtf:

blablabla

01-12-2013, 12:41 PM

north korea is not in the bottom 10?

BlueCrayon

01-12-2013, 12:44 PM

'Murica

Math2

01-12-2013, 12:45 PM

Really, now? Where are the stats for freedom per capita, or most freedom per person :lol

D-Rose

01-12-2013, 12:54 PM

Hong Kong is a country? :wtf:
Not really, but it operates pretty much like it is. Sort of like how the USA and Puerto Rico are.

The Real JW

01-12-2013, 01:05 PM

Can you own guns in NZ?

embersyc

01-12-2013, 01:07 PM

Hong Kong is a country? :wtf:

Hong Kong was under British rule until 1997, when China took it back they didn't want to ruin the success it had, so they mostly have left it alone and let it run itself.

Bano114

01-12-2013, 01:17 PM

thought the same thing.. interesting read on wiki. 1 country 2 systems, essentially a country within a country.

Yeah I read some of it on wiki and got a D.C. sense at first. I never knew that. Interesting how high up it is on the list compared to China as a whole.

kNIOKAS

01-12-2013, 01:23 PM

from wiki
yeah but they OWN guns? Or they don't feel the need and therefore not fully exploiting this right to possess one.

CeltsGarlic

01-12-2013, 01:30 PM

Hong kong runs different economic model than China. They have almost none gov controlled company's and not many rules and low taxes.
Lithuania should do it.

KevinNYC

01-12-2013, 02:04 PM

north korea is not in the bottom 10?

I suspect it is because the bottom 10 all are more violent than north korea. I also suspect the rights of women are probably greater than in some of those countries. Here's what they considered.
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=19171

[QUOTE]The index is contained in a new book, Towards a Worldwide Index of Human Freedom, which examines the characteristics of

brantonli

01-12-2013, 02:09 PM

Hong Kong is a country? :wtf:

We basically run ourselves. Beijing does have a certain amount of influence in HK politics (the Chief Executive must be allowed by Beijing), but because politics tend to be fairly separate from the economics our economy is very free. Plus because we don't have universal suffrage, a lot of people's opinions are expressed in protests and town hall debates, which probably contributed to the freedom of expression bit of the survey.

oh and about healthcare in HK. There are sufficient low cost government medical facilities alongside private carers, but recently there have been problems of hospitals filled with Mainland Chinese mothers coming to HK to give birth.

MMM

01-12-2013, 02:12 PM

But I thought that you needed guns to keep you free from tyrannical governments......

I do find it interesting that America continues to lag behind in these ranking nowadays. Just the other day I was reading how the US is no longer considered the country with the greatest economic freedom as well. Class movement has become far more restricted in America over the last few decades.

KevinNYC

01-12-2013, 02:56 PM

We basically run ourselves. Beijing does have a certain amount of influence in HK politics (the Chief Executive must be allowed by Beijing), but because politics tend to be fairly separate from the economics our economy is very free. Plus because we don't have universal suffrage, a lot of people's opinions are expressed in protests and town hall debates, which probably contributed to the freedom of expression bit of the survey.

oh and about healthcare in HK. There are sufficient low cost government medical facilities alongside private carers, but recently there have been problems of hospitals filled with Mainland Chinese mothers coming to HK to give birth.

You don't have universal sufferage, but these folks consider you among the freest? How does sufferage work in HK.

Also the land of two rings is Houston?

LJJ

01-12-2013, 03:06 PM

I suspect it is because the bottom 10 all are more violent than north korea. I also suspect the rights of women are probably greater than in some of those countries. Here's what they considered.
http://www.fraserinstitute.org/research-news/news/display.aspx?id=19171

Actually, North Korea isn't listed at all because of the extremely limited availability of objective information of any kind.

It's pretty safe to assume they would be at the very bottom though.

Bano114

01-12-2013, 03:13 PM

We basically run ourselves. Beijing does have a certain amount of influence in HK politics (the Chief Executive must be allowed by Beijing), but because politics tend to be fairly separate from the economics our economy is very free. Plus because we don't have universal suffrage, a lot of people's opinions are expressed in protests and town hall debates, which probably contributed to the freedom of expression bit of the survey.

oh and about healthcare in HK. There are sufficient low cost government medical facilities alongside private carers, but recently there have been problems of hospitals filled with Mainland Chinese mothers coming to HK to give birth.

Thats strange. How do other cities operate? I would think leaders of other cities in the country would push for the same kind of freedom?

bagelred

01-12-2013, 03:16 PM

I'm actually stunned U.S. is 7th. I thought we were around 15th or so.....

JEFFERSON MONEY

01-12-2013, 03:23 PM

lol like i care about what some jackazz biased canuck has to say while incorporating something like security in an abstract concept such as freedom.

MURICA NOW AND FOREVER.

we can dress like emos, we can order pizzas whenever we want we can ride motorsickles we can whine to big retail and they'll refund us back we can go out to a piss poor ghetto and walk to a rich az jework swuburb after.

I FUKKIN LOVE THE PLACE I LIVE IN. GOD BLESS AMERICA. Home of the brave land of the free. AND I WILL NOT LET TRAITORS LIKE KEVIN OR THE DUTCH RAIN ON M PARADE.

FUKK YEAH!

but to be fair hk and nz are awesome.

MMM

01-12-2013, 03:30 PM

I'm actually stunned U.S. is 7th. I thought we were around 15th or so.....

I wonder how high America was in these type of ratings about a decade ago. Seems like we have given up a lot of liberty for a little security. Since then we have seen a surveillance state set up and where due process of American can be suspended if they are deemed a threat to national security.

Bano114

01-12-2013, 03:43 PM

I wonder how high America was in these type of ratings about a decade ago. Seems like we have given up a lot of liberty for a little security. Since then we have seen a surveillance state set up and where due process of American can be suspended if they are deemed a threat to national security.
Today 02:23 PM

People seem more concerned about the abuse of power than the abuse of freedom. Both can be dangerous and a balance should be found between freedoms to the people and power of the government to limit the abuses of both.

I'd give up my second amendment right if it meant people would not be able to take advantage of this freedom and use fire arms to harm innocent people.

The only problem is, I'm not sure if that would solve the problem. I'm torn on gun control but I was just using that as an example.

EDIT: Thinking back I probably went a little to far with that statement. To clarify, I believe the right to bear arms should be held by American Citizens, but I would gladly have stricter regulation on owning guns to promote safety.

MMM

01-12-2013, 03:56 PM

People seem more concerned about the abuse of power than the abuse of freedom. Both can be dangerous and a balance should be found between freedoms to the people and power of the government to limit the abuses of both.

I'd give up my second amendment right if it meant people would not be able to take advantage of this freedom and use fire arms to harm innocent people.

The only problem is, I'm not sure if that would solve the problem. I'm torn on gun control but I was just using that as an example.

EDIT: Thinking back I probably went a little to far with that statement. To clarify, I believe the right to bear arms should be held by American Citizens, but I would gladly have stricter regulation on owning guns to promote safety.

The problem in America is not the 2nd amendment, it is the unhealthy gun culture. The broad interpretation my some of the 2nd amendment doesn't help but overall that both sides can find common ground instead of inflaming the other side. I personally think that some common ground can be found in areas like mental illness, registrations, and stricter regulations. However, the devil would be in the details in such discussions.

Bano114

01-12-2013, 04:09 PM

The problem in America is not the 2nd amendment, it is the unhealthy gun culture. The broad interpretation my some of the 2nd amendment doesn't help but overall that both sides can find common ground instead of inflaming the other side. I personally think that some common ground can be found in areas like mental illness, registrations, and stricter regulations. However, the devil would be in the details in such discussions.

Agreed. I brought up gun control because the gun culture in our country is a shining example of those looking to prevent the abuse of freedoms in conflict with those in fear of the abuse of power.

In a country where many citizens do not trust the government, taking away the right to guns is tough to make popular. The whole reason for this amendment was due to the fact that nobody knew for sure how the new government would play out. When the government was formed people feared that they would abuse their power and they should be armed to protect themselves from tyranny.

Living with the freedom of having guns is necessary because if we surrender this right we essentially surrender all power to the government. At the end of the day, the power resides with the side who holds the weapons. They are the ones who have the most influence over all others.

On the other hand making weapons available to citizens has provided numerous examples of the abuse of this freedom (Aurora, Sandy Hook, Columbine, VT) and it is clear more regulation is needed to prevent the weapons from falling in to irresponsible hands.

The balance needs to found between those 2 aspects in order for the problem to be worked out correctly, at least in my opinion.

LJJ

01-12-2013, 04:21 PM

Thats strange. How do other cities operate? I would think leaders of other cities in the country would push for the same kind of freedom?

Macau and Hong Kong are pretty unique situations, the political and legal issues involved are more than a little complicated.

If other cities in China sought that type of autonomy that would basically be secession, Hong Kong however already was completely separate from China.
The other cities in China are historically part of the country and the leaders of those cities are part of the state party. If they had such ideas contrary to party policy, they obviously wouldn't be high ranking CPC officials in the first place.

KevinNYC

01-12-2013, 09:33 PM

Actually, North Korea isn't listed at all because of the extremely limited availability of objective information of any kind.

It's pretty safe to assume they would be at the very bottom though.

Does it say that about North Korea? Because I guess it would be hard to that data about Myanmar as well.

brantonli

01-13-2013, 08:30 AM

You don't have universal sufferage, but these folks consider you among the freest? How does sufferage work in HK.

Also the land of two rings is Houston?

I tried to find how they calculate the index which ranked HK as 3rd, and found this:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/08/beijing-controlled-hong-kong-topped-canada-in-a-human-freedom-ranking-how-is-that-possible/

[QUOTE]Q: Does democracy matter?
A: The type of government was not included as a category in the Fraser Institute

LJJ

01-13-2013, 08:38 AM

Does it say that about North Korea? Because I guess it would be hard to that data about Myanmar as well.

Yeah, you can read the full document here:

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/towards-a-worldwide-index-of-human-freedom.pdf

It doesn't say anything in particular about Burma other than the ratings.

North Korea is included in a footnote:
[North Korea Note that the sources clearly indicate that the government of North Korea is among the most repressive in the world with respect to religion as well as other civil liberties. But because North Korean society
is effectively closed to outsiders, the sources are unable to provide the kind of specific and timely information that the Pew Forum coded in this quantitative study. Therefore, the report does not include a score for North Korea.]

andgar923

01-13-2013, 08:49 AM

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10858183

"Land of the Free" is only at 7.

But they hate us for our 'freedoms'! I mean that's the reason why we got attacked correct?

So even pre-9/11 how different were those countries from America? I mean, why weren't they attacked?

Shit, from almost all of the polls that I've seen in the past 20 years, Canada always appears to be amongst the top 5 in anything positive. Why weren't they attacked?

Oh yeah, that's right.

They don't impose their 'liberties and freedoms' on Middle Eastern countries and leave them sick, poor and dead.

D-Rose

01-13-2013, 11:14 AM

But they hate us for our 'freedoms'! I mean that's the reason why we got attacked correct?

So even pre-9/11 how different were those countries from America? I mean, why weren't they attacked?

Shit, from almost all of the polls that I've seen in the past 20 years, Canada always appears to be amongst the top 5 in anything positive. Why weren't they attacked?

Oh yeah, that's right.

They don't impose their 'liberties and freedoms' on Middle Eastern countries and leave them sick, poor and dead.

Exactly. Because those other countries don't stick their noses where they don't belong and intervene militarily anywhere they please.

The Real JW

01-13-2013, 01:08 PM

But I thought that you needed guns to keep you free from tyrannical governments......

They apparently do have guns.

MMM

01-13-2013, 03:05 PM

They apparently do have guns.

So do most of the other countries listed to my knowledge. However, seems like guns have no impact in keeping you free from tyranny. I mean if guns had a significant impact on keeping people free than how does that explain the erosion of rights we've seen over the last few years???

The Real JW

01-13-2013, 03:15 PM

So do most of the other countries listed to my knowledge. However, seems like guns have no impact in keeping you free from tyranny. I mean if guns had a significant impact on keeping people free than how does that explain the erosion of rights we've seen over the last few years???

Well, if a selected group of countries all allow private gun ownership and one of the countries allegedly has eroding rights, you can't conclude from that alone that guns are or aren't having an impact because guns wouldn't be the only (or even most significant) factor.

TheFastOne

01-13-2013, 03:24 PM

Netherlands at 2 :banana:

Jello

01-13-2013, 03:44 PM

So do most of the other countries listed to my knowledge. However, seems like guns have no impact in keeping you free from tyranny. I mean if guns had a significant impact on keeping people free than how does that explain the erosion of rights we've seen over the last few years???
What a joke poster. You're arguing against a useless point; if there is truly a tyrannical government in this modern age, obviously citizens cannot hope to fight on a whole other playing field technologically.
To say that guns has had no impact on the recent erosion of rights implies a need for insurrection. Guns may not keep you free from tyranny, but they allow you to fight against it.

MMM

01-13-2013, 03:52 PM

What a joke poster. You're arguing against a useless point; if there is truly a tyrannical government in this modern age, obviously citizens cannot hope to fight on a whole other playing field technologically.
To say that guns has had no impact on the recent erosion of rights implies a need for insurrection. Guns may not keep you free from tyranny, but they allow you to fight against it.

It is a point that gun nuts bring up, but I also reject that guns are going to help fight against tyranny. It is a joke to think that they would help vs. the capabilities of the US military.

Jello

01-13-2013, 04:06 PM

It is a point that gun nuts bring up, but I also reject that guns are going to help fight against tyranny. It is a joke to think that they would help vs. the capabilities of the US military.
That is not the point. The point is that in the instance of tyrannical rule, a militia would be better able to protect itself than with their bare hands. Real tyranny, not your "tyranny" of the last couple of years. :lol
Look up the Iraqi insurrections, Soviet-Afghani conflict, Hungarian Revolution of 1956, etc.
All cases where citizens with guns helped fight against tyranny.

KevinNYC

01-13-2013, 04:07 PM

Yeah, you can read the full document here:

Brantoli and LJJ, thanks for you replies. When the 1999 handover was going to happen, the neighborhood next to mine in Brooklyn became a Chinatown in just a couple of years.

Derka

01-13-2013, 04:09 PM

Middle-earth here I come!

Scoooter

01-13-2013, 04:36 PM

But they hate us for our 'freedoms'! I mean that's the reason why we got attacked correct?

So even pre-9/11 how different were those countries from America? I mean, why weren't they attacked?

Shit, from almost all of the polls that I've seen in the past 20 years, Canada always appears to be amongst the top 5 in anything positive. Why weren't they attacked?

Oh yeah, that's right.

They don't impose their 'liberties and freedoms' on Middle Eastern countries and leave them sick, poor and dead.
158 Canadian troops have died fighting in Afghanistan since 2002.

bdreason

01-13-2013, 04:38 PM

It is a point that gun nuts bring up, but I also reject that guns are going to help fight against tyranny. It is a joke to think that they would help vs. the capabilities of the US military.

Killing foreigners and killing fellow citizens is a different story. You cannot deploy the same tactics against your own people as you can foreign nations, because you are essentially asking soldiers to kill their own family and friends. The U.S. military is powerful because of their ability to blow shit up from a distance. If you look at our domestic enforcement, such as the National Guard, it's a complete joke. We can't even stop unarmed Mexicans from crossing our borders at will, or effectively help our own people in times of disaster (see Katrina). An enraged U.S. populace focused on revolution would be more than the U.S. domestic military could handle, unless you believe the U.S. would tactically nuke its own people... and even if they did, it would only further damage their cause, forcing citizens to completely reject the governments authority.

Eventually we will get to see how the U.S. responds to a revolt from its citizens, because it's only a matter of time before a State (like Texas), decides to attempt to secede from the Union. Hopefully it happens in my lifetime, because I'm interested to see how the U.S. government will respond.