What was the point of Lebron coming to Miami?

[StateOfMind12]

His team still sucks and he still has to carry a ridiculous load. He should have just stayed in Cleveland so he can still be liked by most.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wade/Bosh still did more for him than any other 2nd/3rd option he had in Cleveland. You also forget how Miami's role players were able to hit those clutch shots in the Finals. You couldn't rely on Cleveland's role players to do the same. Do you Mo Williams dropping a 40+ point game in Indiana? Or Big Z playing the same help defense Bosh did for Miami? Anytime KD got past LeBron, Bosh was there to alter the shot.

[AlphaWolf24]

Wade/Bosh still did more for him than any other 2nd/3rd option he had in Cleveland. You also forget how Miami's role players were able to hit those clutch shots in the Finals. You couldn't rely on Cleveland's role players to do the same. Do you Mo Williams dropping a 40+ point game in Indiana? Or Big Z playing the same help defense Bosh did for Miami? Anytime KD got past LeBron, Bosh was there to alter the shot.


- Varejao could have played better defense then Bosh did in the Finals....

- I would say Shane Battier was more important as a role player then Bosh was....

- and did you not see the calapse in 11'....Lebrons 09' or 10' Cavs could have beaten the 11' Mav's...

[livinglegend]

- Varejao could have played better defense then Bosh did in the Finals....

- I would say Shane Battier was more important as a role player then Bosh was....

- and did you not see the calapse in 11'....Lebrons 09' or 10' Cavs could have beaten the 11' Mav's...

Bosh was great during the finals. He was the 2nd most important for Heat after James.

[KyrieTheFuture]

This team is still better than what he had in Cleveland.

[SilkkTheShocker]

- Varejao could have played better defense then Bosh did in the Finals....

- I would say Shane Battier was more important as a role player then Bosh was....

- and did you not see the calapse in 11'....Lebrons 09' or 10' Cavs could have beaten the 11' Mav's...



Alpha, I like a lot of your posts. But I think you're overrating LeBron's Cleveland teammates. As mentioned above, Bosh was arugably better in the Finals than Wade. He was huge defensive presence. Not say Varejao couldn't do the same, but he can't hit open jumper with the same consistency as Bosh. Or pump-fake Perkins from 15ft out take it to the hole for a jam. And the 09 Cavaliers s.hit the bed so bad in the ECF, I don't know why anyone would bet on them. Dirk's Mavs were far from stacked. Arguably the least talented Finals team (regarding star power) since the 03 Spurs, but deep for sure. LeBron isn't the clutch player Dirk is, but those Mavs role players hit clutch shots at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, Bron and co. choked, but the Mavs still crushed some good teams on the way to the Finals. No way in hell do I see Mo Williams or Anthony Parker hitting those daggers. Something the Cleveland teammates couldn't be relied on to do enough.

[blablabla]

nice weather nice girls

[StateOfMind12]

nice weather nice girls
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2011/01/camron.gif

[AlphaWolf24]

Alpha, I like a lot of your posts. But I think you're overrating LeBron's Cleveland teammates. As mentioned above, Bosh was arugably better in the Finals than Wade. He was huge defensive presence. Not say Varejao couldn't do the same, but he can't hit open jumper with the same consistency as Bosh. Or pump-fake Perkins from 15ft out take it to the hole for a jam. And the 09 Cavaliers s.hit the bed so bad in the ECF, I don't know why anyone would bet on them. Dirk's Mavs were far from stacked. Arguably the least talented Finals team (regarding star power) since the 03 Spurs, but deep for sure. LeBron isn't the clutch player Dirk is, but those Mavs role players hit clutch shots at the end of the day. Don't get me wrong, Bron and co. choked, but the Mavs still crushed some good teams on the way to the Finals. No way in hell do I see Mo Williams or Anthony Parker hitting those daggers. Something the Cleveland teammates couldn't be relied on to do enough.


- Naw...U prolly right....Bosh played amazing...his ability to hit that 15' Jumper keeps the defense honest and helps open up the middle.( very important in the post season)

- Battier also IMO was one of the most important players during the Finals.

- mostly I'm just butthurt Lebron left.....they had a great team.... I think Lebron could have won a Title in Cleveland,....

[niko]

It's a better team, he gets to play with his friends, and Miami is warm and fun and Cleveland is....let's be nice and say not like Miami.

[arifgokcen]

- Naw...U prolly right....Bosh played amazing...his ability to hit that 15' Jumper keeps the defense honest and helps open up the middle.( very important in the post season)

- Battier also IMO was one of the most important players during the Finals.

- mostly I'm just butthurt Lebron left.....they had a great team.... I think Lebron could have won a Title in Cleveland,....
He would have probably won a title.But after the emergence of thunder he wouldnt stand a chance.

As good as he is,he still needs teammates.

His team is playing poorly and but i dont think anyone is gonna bet against them come playoff time.

[SilkkTheShocker]

- Naw...U prolly right....Bosh played amazing...his ability to hit that 15' Jumper keeps the defense honest and helps open up the middle.( very important in the post season)

- Battier also IMO was one of the most important players during the Finals.

- mostly I'm just butthurt Lebron left.....they had a great team.... I think Lebron could have won a Title in Cleveland,....

Battier was HUGE in the Finals. Him and the role players really hit their stride in the Finals. You can't say enough about Chalmers, Miller, and Battier hitting some well-timed threes.

As for winning in Cleveland, eventually it could have happened. But I think LeBron saw the writing on the wall when his team underachieved two years in a row. With part of the blame going to him also in 2010. The NBA is probably the most unfair to players that don't have a champonship. The ringless stigma can really hurt how people view past players. Look at Karl Malone. The guy was a f.ucking moster, but you will still see people b.ith about him not winning a championship.

[niko]

- I know ...living in Cleveland.....it would take almost a month by horse an carriage to get to Miami during the summer/offseason.

- absolutley no way he could play in the Rock n Roll capitol and vacation in Miami...


- real talk.....2 hour plane ride and he could have stayed in Miami all summer....

Maybe he wanted to live in the nicer city all year long. Why not? And don't discount the talent difference, having a Wade is a big deal. You can't aggregate talent, there was nothing on Cleveland that approximated at all a Wade.

[ripthekik]

because he's not the type that can lead his own team to win, end of story. He needed stars, guys that he can hide behind when he gets nervous in the playoffs.

[Bigsmoke]

because he's not the type that can lead his own team to win, end of story. He needed stars, guys that he can hide behind when he gets nervous in the playoffs.

you never impress me.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Maybe he wanted to live in the nicer city all year long. Why not? And don't discount the talent difference, having a Wade is a big deal. You can't aggregate talent, there was nothing on Cleveland that approximated at all a Wade.


Its also a lot easier to recruit from Miami. Look at what happened in 2005. The Cavs had a boatload of money and struck out on Allen, Redd, Joe Johnson.... They ended up signing Hughes and overpaying Big Z, Donyell Marshall, and Damon Jones.

[midatlantic09]

So he can get at all those spicy Latinas on a regular basis.

Duh.

[SilkkTheShocker]

because he's not the type that can lead his own team to win, end of story. He needed stars, guys that he can hide behind when he gets nervous in the playoffs.



^^^^^
People are still upset that LeBron took matters into his own hands and picked who he wanted to play with. The guy didn't demand a trade, he didn't threaten to stay in school if Cleveland drafted him, etc. He waited until free agency and played with two guys he knew could give him a breather. No clue why only LeBron isn't allowed to play with decent teammates.

[niko]

^^^^^
People are still upset that LeBron took matters into his own hands and picked who he wanted to play with. The guy didn't demand a trade, he didn't threaten to stay in school if Cleveland drafted him, etc. He waited until free agency and played with two guys he knew could give him a breather. No clue why only LeBron isn't allowed to play with decent teammates.

Lebron leaving wasn't a bad thing. The way he did it, the team visits, the hinting, the primetime special, that was pretty ****ing stupid. (and he paid for it, he got tons of abuse). The actual leaving via FA, anyone who criticizes that is not being reasonable because we all want players to come to our team, not to be loyal and not leave.

I also want people to honestly say "i would give up a better (at worst equal) situation in Miami because i want to live in Cleveland". Say that out loud over and over and tell me how it sounds.

[ihoopallday]

Two straight finals and one championship. Yeah, I'm sure LeBron would've rather stayed in Cleveland.

[DaSeba5]

Because he gets to live in Miami, and compete for championships every year. Not a good thread to make a year after they won the title.

[Bigsmoke]

Because he gets to live in Miami, and compete for championships every year. Not a good thread to make a year after they won the title.

yall need some size :coleman:

[SCdac]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzOqsHZFVnA/T-QKa7uJ6xI/AAAAAAAAC7c/mMWPumSG4HM/s1600/lebron_title_trophy.nbcsports-story-612.jpg

[DaSeba5]

yall need some size :coleman:

Big time. Bosh only getting 1 rebound in a game is not going to cut it.

[G-Funk]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.

[ripthekik]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.
:applause:

[tomtucker]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.

you mean D-wade ?

[JohnnySic]

To form the New World Order, of course:

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Lebron-NWO.jpg

http://cdn.wl.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Lebron_NWO.jpg

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/compositions/16644742/views/1,width=280,height=280,appearanceId=2.png/lebron-wade-bosh-nwo-parody_design.png

http://yourstrongestally.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nWo.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.


Another butt-hurt f.aggot ^^^^

Kobe was one and done without the most stacked frontcourt in the league. LeBron never b/itched for a trade like him

[ripthekik]

Another butt-hurt f.aggot ^^^^

Kobe was one and done without the most stacked frontcourt in the league. LeBron never b/itched for a trade like him

Lebron never biitched, he just went to team up behind 2 other superstars like a lil biitch :oldlol:

[BuffaloBill]

The season before he joined the Heat, Dwyane Wade was top 2-3 player in the league. Let's not forget that.

[STATUTORY]

I'm sure he never foresaw Wade's precipitous decline like this.

he probably thought he was teaming up with 2005-2006 Wade.

[Lebron23]

I'm sure he never foresaw Wade's precipitous decline like this.

he probably thought he was teaming up with 2005-2006 Wade.


He won a championship with Wade. The Heat are still the best team in the NBA. Bosh just needs to make a major commitment to rebounding. He is only averaging 7.2 rpg this season.

[BuffaloBill]

He still has 2 of the best 2nd and 3rd options in the league, if not the best.

[LoneyROY7]

Yup, when Wade was averaging 26 ppg in '11 and 22 ppg in '12 it was just like Cleveland...right?

:facepalm

[hitmanyr2k]

If Lebron actually developed some kind of post game while he was in Cleveland he could have possibly won a title there. He always had the body and strength to beast anyone on the low block. He could have drawn double-teams and kicked it to shooters or cutters without exerting a lot of energy. The fact that it took that dumbass years of failure in Cleveland and an embarrassing Finals against the Mavs to wake him up is inexcusable.

[Lebron23]

He still has 2 of the best 2nd and 3rd options in the league, if not the best.


And Heat are a much better team than the star-studded Lakers.

[Connor B]

His team still sucks and he still has to carry a ridiculous load. He should have just stayed in Cleveland so he can still be liked by most.

Are you ****ing retarded? You know they won a Championship last year? I am not a Heat fan at all but you must be one of those 14 year old kids who judges a team on one poor game. They are still #1 in the east...

Pointless thread, lock it, ban OP.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron went to Miami to play with a proven champion who got the job done as the man. Lebron couldn't win and carry a franchise that never won before nor could he win a title as the most proven player on the floor which is why he went to play with Wade.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html

[QUOTE]
Going to Miami, it isn

[red1]

salty hoes left and right

[Money 23]

If Lebron actually developed some kind of post game while he was in Cleveland he could have possibly won a title there. He always had the body and strength to beast anyone on the low block. He could have drawn double-teams and kicked it to shooters or cutters without exerting a lot of energy. The fact that it took that dumbass years of failure in Cleveland and an embarrassing Finals against the Mavs to wake him up is inexcusable.
Very, very good post. And total truth.

[Lebron23]

Lebron went to Miami to play with a proven champion who got the job done as the man. Lebron couldn't win and carry a franchise that never won before nor could he win a title as the most proven player on the floor which is why he went to play with Wade.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_james_100709.html


I know you hate LBJ, but he's the reigning NBA Finals MVP. He's the Heat's best player since the 2012 NBA Season.

[TheBigVeto]

He got a ring. Mission accomplished.

[Doctor Rivers]

He won a championship with Wade.

The Heat are still the best team in the NBA.

Bosh just needs to make a major commitment to rebounding.

He is only averaging 7.2 rpg this season.

fixed

[MetsPackers]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.

So what you are saying here, is that Kobe is not top 2?... Ok, I guess i'll take that

[ShaqAttack3234]

Lebron has already won a title in Miami and been to the finals both years and are the favorites to come out of the East again this year, yet people still don't see the point of him going to Miami? Yeah, I'm sure he wishes he could give that ring back. :rolleyes:

[AlphaWolf24]

Lebron has already won a title in Miami and been to the finals both years and are the favorites to come out of the East again this year, yet people still don't see the point of him going to Miami? Yeah, I'm sure he wishes he could give that ring back. :rolleyes:


- He went to the Finals in Cleveland!!....He had back to back 60 win seasons and were favorites both years to win it all ( 09' and 10')


- so basically you just said , he went to Miami to win a ring ( Ring chase) while giving up on his Hometown team/fans....a team that was in the Finals 3 years before and was coming off the best record in the NBA 2 years in a row...

makes perfect sense:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[SilkkTheShocker]

If LeBron stayed in Cleveland there would be absolutely no guarantee that they get past Boston. He goes to Miami and they are in the Finals two years in a row. Everyone but LeBron can play with other stars. Magic's Lakers were stacked. Bird's Celtics were stacked. Shaq and Kobe were the most talented tandem of all time. Jordan played with two of the greatest defenders of all-time. But LeBron has to stay in Cleveland and play with garbage. Even the unspectacular team Dirk won a title with still had more talent than LeBron's Cavaliers. Some of you are beyond butt-hurt and LeBron flipped the script and it took matters in his own hand.

[SilkkTheShocker]

- He went to the Finals in Cleveland!!....He had back to back 60 win seasons and were favorites both years to win it all ( 09' and 10')


- so basically you just said , he went to Miami to win a ring ( Ring chase) while giving up on his Hometown team/fans....a team that was in the Finals 3 years before and was coming off the best record in the NBA 2 years in a row...

makes perfect sense:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:


Look at what happened to the team when he left. LeBron was the main reason for their 62 wins in 2010. They lost Mo for 15 games and went 15-0. Big Z was inconsistent and a bench player. Shaq missed about 1/3 the season. And Delonte West was in out of the lineup with mental problems. LeBron deserves some blame for 2010, but the Cavs got vastly outplayed in 2010 by Boston. Rondo was TEARING up Mo and everyone but LeBron. And once they put LeBron on Rondo, Pierce got into rhythm. And lets not forget how bad KG outplayed Jamison. KG was scoring at will.

[Money 23]

Lebron has already won a title in Miami and been to the finals both years and are the favorites to come out of the East again this year, yet people still don't see the point of him going to Miami? Yeah, I'm sure he wishes he could give that ring back. :rolleyes:
Seriously.

[spacebump]

- and did you not see the calapse in 11'....Lebrons 09' or 10' Cavs could have beaten the 11' Mav's...

LeBron's Cavs couldn't even make it to the Finals in '09 or '10. Mavs would have swept those teams because Marion plays good d on LeBron and covering Williams is a bit easier than DWade.

[AlphaWolf24]

Look at what happened to the team when he left. LeBron was the main reason for their 62 wins in 2010. They lost Mo for 15 games and went 15-0. Big Z was inconsistent and a bench player. Shaq missed about 1/3 the season. And Delonte West was in out of the lineup with mental problems. LeBron deserves some blame for 2010, but the Cavs got vastly outplayed in 2010 by Boston. Rondo was TEARING up Mo and everyone but LeBron. And once they put LeBron on Rondo, Pierce got into rhythm. And lets not forget how bad KG outplayed Jamison. KG was scoring at will.


- ok....the same thing happened to the Heat in 2011....J$ caught fire and no one on the Heat could guard him....

- Dirk was playing Joel and Bosh like puppets....Heat got merked by Dallas...( should he have left after 2011?...since no one on the Heat could guard J$ and Dirk?)

- Of course Lebron made the Cavs a great team....just like he makes Miami a great team....(If he left Miami they would suck too)...but a team doesn't win 60+ games 2 years in a row because Lebron just drives and lays it up...Cleveland had a great team!!..with great players who could make plays.

- and the fact that he said he was going to change his number during the 2010 season to #6 ( and Miami had #23 retired)...sounds like he already had it in his head he was going to lose in the playoff's

WTF is up with that???

[SilkkTheShocker]

- ok....the same thing happened to the Heat in 2011....J$ caught fire and no one on the Heat could guard him....

- Dirk was playing Joel and Bosh like puppets....Heat got merked by Dallas...( should he have left after 2011?...since no one on the Heat could guard J$ and Dirk?)

- Of course Lebron made the Cavs a great team....just like he makes Miami a great team....(If he left Miami they would suck too)...but a team doesn't win 60+ games 2 years in a row because Lebron just drives and lays it up...Cleveland had a great team!!..with great players who could make plays.

- and the fact that he said he was going to change his number during the 2010 season to #6 ( and Miami had #23 retired)...sounds like he already had it in his head he was going to lose in the playoff's

WTF is up with that???


I don't really have anything to defend 2011. LeBron simply bombed and Spolestra got outcoached so bad it wasn't funny. In his defense, he seems to have learned from it. Even if it still shouldn't have happened.....But I think he has to carry less of a load now than he had to before in Cleveland. You also gotta remember that Miami made it to the Finals in their first season with no bench in their first season. Thats how good the top 3 were for Miami. Once they got some pieces the next season (Cole, Battier, and to a small extent Turiaf) they could matchup better and spread the floor more.

[Magic bird]

He realized he needed the 2nd best player and a top 5 big to win a tittle.
:applause:

[Heavincent]

His team still sucks and he still has to carry a ridiculous load. He should have just stayed in Cleveland so he can still be liked by most.

What was the point of you being born? Should have been aborted.

[SilkkTheShocker]

What was the point of you being born? Should have been aborted.


His split personality is starting to freak me out. His mom must forgot to fill his prescription.

[SilkkTheShocker]

:applause:


Here is a list of players that would have won championships with Mo Williams as their 2nd option:

[LBJ 23]

The point was that after putting up 38-8-8 and still being eliminated from the playoffs he probably realized that it's not all up to him if he ever wants to win a ring and he found himself a better employer and better co-workers on which he can rely.

[DukeDelonte13]

Lebron leaving wasn't a bad thing. The way he did it, the team visits, the hinting, the primetime special, that was pretty ****ing stupid. (and he paid for it, he got tons of abuse). The actual leaving via FA, anyone who criticizes that is not being reasonable because we all want players to come to our team, not to be loyal and not leave.

I also want people to honestly say "i would give up a better (at worst equal) situation in Miami because i want to live in Cleveland". Say that out loud over and over and tell me how it sounds.


Lebron still lives in Ohio during the offseason. Put Ohio in context here, Lebron was born and raised there, so it's a little different. Besides, when a player is making max money its not like they can't go wherever the **** they want during the offseason.

[NBAller]

What a stupid question.

[ShaqAttack3234]

- He went to the Finals in Cleveland!!....He had back to back 60 win seasons and were favorites both years to win it all ( 09' and 10')


- so basically you just said , he went to Miami to win a ring ( Ring chase) while giving up on his Hometown team/fans....a team that was in the Finals 3 years before and was coming off the best record in the NBA 2 years in a row...

makes perfect sense:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

The finals appearance in '07 was completely different, the East was worse back then. It didn't look like he was on his way to a title in Cleveland after the loss in 2010, but they were still going to be too good to get lottery picks as long as he was there, and I doubt he wanted to wait for one to develop anyway.

It was clear that Miami was the better destination to win a ring, which is what basketball is all about.

[PJR]

To play with a teammate capable of playoff performances like these:


http://youtu.be/LfWCVEDwE5I

http://youtu.be/9BEkYFM4S9c

http://youtu.be/lgE2JG1k0Fg

http://youtu.be/31ubSkQ0G70

http://youtu.be/A7UWaWrp3eo

[Ikill]

Wade and Bosh have sacrificed their games and are playing reduced roles to allow Lebron to play at his best. The coaching staff has built the team around Lebrons talents and has done everything to make him comfortable. This is the end result Lebron has to carry a huge load because the offence only allows Lebrons game to thrive and players that mesh well with Lebron.

This Maimi team is still much better than the Cavs though but there still not getting the most out of their talent.

[AlphaWolf24]

The finals appearance in '07 was completely different, the East was worse back then. It didn't look like he was on his way to a title in Cleveland after the loss in 2010, but they were still going to be too good to get lottery picks as long as he was there, and I doubt he wanted to wait for one to develop anyway.

It was clear that Miami was the better destination to win a ring, which is what basketball is all about.



- Not when you are the star....the best player on the team......the one who is depended on in the crucial moments...Lebron was not an old veteran ready to call it quits.......he was not a battle tested warrior to old to be the man...he was still in hs prime!!!

- You just said it's ok to leave his team because they couldn't beat the Celtics...WTF?...what kind of message does that send?

- Basketball is about standing together and trying to win....and as the leader you are responsible for the pulse of the team.

- when the going got tough...Lebron left his Squad and quit to go join the enemy.....just so he could win the battle.

- that does not make one great...it makes them a trader......traders don't leave legacies

[Kews1]

he still has to carry a ridiculous load.

http://jerseychaser.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Bosh_Gay_Champagne.jpg

[PJR]

- Not when you are the star....the best player on the team......the one who is depended on in the crucial moments...Lebron was not an old veteran.....he was not a battle tested warrir to old to be the man...he was still in hs prime!!!

- You just said it's ok to leave his team because they couldn't beat the Celtics...WTF?...what kind of message does that send?

- Basketball is about standing together and trying to win....and as the leader you are responsible for the pulse of the team.

- when the going got tough...Lebron left his Squad and quit to go join the enemy.....just so he could win the battle.

- that does not make one great...it makes them a trader......traders don't leave legacies

You are a clown. Without the makeup.

[Dictator]

The fck is wrong with you ppl. The reason everyone else isn't up to par is because Lebron statpads and ballhogs most of the game. Lebron always has the ball in his hands.

Lets see who Lebron is playing with shall we?

Bosh
Wade
Ray Allen
Chalmers
Cole
Battier
Lewis
Miller
Jones

LeIdon'tgiveashitaboutmyteammates James

[Derka]

The point of going to Miami was to be able to beat the Boston Celtics and win titles.

Both missions = accomplished.

[AlphaWolf24]

You are a clown. Without the makeup.

- call me what ever you want.......just not a liar.

- real talk comes from howl of a wolf!!

- howl wit a N!qqa....AROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[AlphaWolf24]

The point of going to Miami was to be able to beat the Boston Celtics and win 8 titles.

Both missions = accomplished.


- it was actually 8 titles...he said it himself.

- if h wanted to beat boston...he should have went to LA???:confusedshrug:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Miami without Lebron and Bosh was still a playoffs caliber team, 5th seed in Eastern Conference. Cavs with Lebron? Lottery winner maybe. Now just wait for Decision v2.0 by Irving at some point.
:lol

[Ikill]

The fck is wrong with you ppl. The reason everyone else isn't up to par is because Lebron statpads and ballhogs most of the game. Lebron always has the ball in his hands.

Lets see who Lebron is playing with shall we?

Bosh
Wade
Ray Allen
Chalmers
Cole
Battier
Lewis
Miller
Jones

LeIdon'tgiveashitaboutmyteammates James
I wouldn't take it that far but Lebrons ball dominance does have negative effects

[red1]

http://icecreamconvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Lebron-James-Championship-Ring-Main-615x350.jpg

[Derka]

- it was actually 8 titles...he said it himself.

- if h wanted to beat boston...he should have went to LA???:confusedshrug:

LA couldn't sign him and whether its one or eight...he went to Miami and won a title. Both things he wanted to do, he did.

[AlphaWolf24]

LA couldn't sign him and whether its one or eight...he went to Miami and won a title. Both things he wanted to do, he did.


- then he should have joined Boston....

- "I got a huge goal.....That's to get a Title for Cleveland...and I won't quit till I get it"

- It was wrong to quit on his 1rst goal when it got tough.....

[Doranku]

His team still sucks and he still has to carry a ridiculous load. He should have just stayed in Cleveland so he can still be liked by most.

He's probably more liked now than he was in Cleveland. He just led his team to a championship as clearly the best player on his team and in the league. Where are his critics now? Where's all of the LeBron bashing in the media?

In Cleveland, he probably still wouldn't have a ring and would still be labeled as a choker and a loser.

[sixer6ad]

His team still sucks and he still has to carry a ridiculous load. He should have just stayed in Cleveland so he can still be liked by most.

There is a guy who works for IMG (marketing firm in Cleveland) who told some of us "Miami" two days before The Decision. We were like, "What?" He said, "Miami".

That same guy has told us "Cleveland" is a done deal. He's coming back.

[Bandito]

http://icecreamconvos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Lebron-James-Championship-Ring-Main-615x350.jpg
:lol @ that stupid face...looks like a little kid opening presents at christmas...

[Bandito]

There is a guy who works for IMG (marketing firm in Cleveland) who told some of us "Miami" two days before The Decision. We were like, "What?" He said, "Miami".

That same guy has told us "Cleveland" is a done deal. He's coming back.
If he does come back I would lose all respect for him honestly...

[StateOfMind12]

There is a guy who works for IMG (marketing firm in Cleveland) who told some of us "Miami" two days before The Decision. We were like, "What?" He said, "Miami".

That same guy has told us "Cleveland" is a done deal. He's coming back.
http://i.imgur.com/0jyQ2.gif

[Noyze]

I remember Mo Williams disappearing every year in the playoffs.

[AlphaWolf24]

If he does come back I would lose all respect for him honestly...


WHY?....

- If he came back it would be like admitting to your mistakes.....facing your failures and making up for it.

- anyone who thinks leaving his hometown team and fans ( who love him like a son) just so he could play with 2 other stars and "win" .....was a good thing?......shouldn't even be listened to.

- Return of the KING...........it's the right thing to do.

[ShaqAttack3234]

- Not when you are the star....the best player on the team......the one who is depended on in the crucial moments...Lebron was not an old veteran ready to call it quits.......he was not a battle tested warrior to old to be the man...he was still in hs prime!!!

- You just said it's ok to leave his team because they couldn't beat the Celtics...WTF?...what kind of message does that send?

- Basketball is about standing together and trying to win....and as the leader you are responsible for the pulse of the team.

- when the going got tough...Lebron left his Squad and quit to go join the enemy.....just so he could win the battle.

- that does not make one great...it makes them a trader......traders don't leave legacies

Lebron was a FREE AGENT. He didn't demand to be traded, his contract was up, and he wanted a better supporting cast. There's nothing wrong with this at all.

You can't watch the 2012 playoffs and claim Lebron didn't earn his title like other stars. He wasn't putting up 20/5/5. Miami depended a lot on their big 3, and despite Wade's inconsistency in the playoffs, and Bosh missing quite a few games, Lebron still delivered a title. And in the finals, he beat a team with their own superstar duo and big 3 to do it.

The game is about winning, period. This narrative about "doing it yourself" and how the old players only wanted to do it is bullshit. Nobody does it by themselves. And a lot of the past greats were drafted into better situations than Lebron to begin with.

Regardless, Lebron's 2012 playoff run measures up to the greats, and he won a title. Those are the 2 things that matter.

[Pacers4ever]

Lebron was a FREE AGENT. He didn't demand to be traded, his contract was up, and he wanted a better supporting cast. There's nothing wrong with this at all.

You can't watch the 2012 playoffs and claim Lebron didn't earn his title like other stars. He wasn't putting up 20/5/5. Miami depended a lot on their big 3, and despite Wade's inconsistency in the playoffs, and Bosh missing quite a few games, Lebron still delivered a title. And in the finals, he beat a team with their own superstar duo and big 3 to do it.
I think that retard confused traders with traitors either way you know what his agenda

[wakencdukest]

The point was to get together with other superstars and win championships. Kind of like those guys who come to pickup games with their whole squad and are willing to sit out a game or 2 so they can play together with their stacked team.

[alleykat]

WHY?....

- If he came back it would be like admitting to your mistakes.....facing your failures and making up for it.

- anyone who thinks leaving his hometown team and fans ( who love him like a son) just so he could play with 2 other stars and "win" .....was a good thing?......shouldn't even be listened to.

- Return of the KING...........it's the right thing to do.

wasn't his hometown, he's from akron. he hated people from cleveland.

[AlphaWolf24]

Lebron was a FREE AGENT. He didn't demand to be traded, his contract was up, and he wanted a better supporting cast. There's nothing wrong with this at all.

You can't watch the 2012 playoffs and claim Lebron didn't earn his title like other stars. He wasn't putting up 20/5/5. Miami depended a lot on their big 3, and despite Wade's inconsistency in the playoffs, and Bosh missing quite a few games, Lebron still delivered a title. And in the finals, he beat a team with their own superstar duo and big 3 to do it.

The game is about winning, period. This narrative about "doing it yourself" and how the old players only wanted to do it is bullshit. Nobody does it by themselves. And a lot of the past greats were drafted into better situations than Lebron to begin with.

Regardless, Lebron's 2012 playoff run measures up to the greats, and he won a title. Those are the 2 things that matter.


- GTFO with the Free Agent BS....

- His scenario was much different....This was not Shaq in Orlando ( most fans voted Shaq was not worth his contract) Shaq was prolly really hurt by this....opposite was True for Lebron....

- Lebron was Loved by everyone in OHIO....added it was his hometown team, Lebron definatley meant alot more to his team then Shaq did in Orlando.

- Of course Lebron earned his title....He actually played amazing in Crunchtime and was counted on during the most important part of the games....(proving why he was the best player last year.....because he was an elite CLOSER!)

because looking at 11'..when he also had the most stacked team and lost to the MAVS...his crunchtime play was atrocous....prolly the main reason why Miami lost....

Bieng able to make plays in crunchtime is the most valuable attribute during the post season.

- That's why I will say this....how can you say he needed better teammates in Cleveland?....he had great teammates that palyed very well together, Back 2 Back seasons of the best record in the NBA and your saying he had no help....( You lost all credibility)....

one second you say "No one wins by themselves"....next you say " a 62 win team was just Lebron...he didn't have any good teammates"....Hypocrite much?


"many playesr get drafted into better situations"..???...they do?

He played for his Hometown team/fans....that adored him.

By his 4th season he was playing in the NBA Finals..

then he played on back 2 back 60+ win teams who favorites to win it all

He then Joined 2 other superstars in his prime....and still lost ( again not bieng able to close games...just as he didn't in Cleveland)

He changed his mentality and took over the 4th quarters and won a Title....he could have done the same thing Cleveland...and it would meant so so so much more.


and what's really crazy is...he changed his Number to 6 in 2010 before the season was halfway over....:confusedshrug: WTF?...

how convienient.

[AlphaWolf24]

I think that retard confused traders with traitors either way you know what his agenda


What agenda?...I was a huge Bron fan...off the court I think he is an amazing person to get to where he is....

- He had to grow up without a stable mom...and luckily he had Friends who looked after him when his mother couldn't.

- But I am Frustrated as to why he left....and it is cool to see him change his mentality...he is by far the best player on his team....He needs to be the Alpha....


traders...traitor...??:confusedshrug:

he traded teams.....he's a trader....deal wit it.

[AlphaWolf24]

wasn't his hometown, he's from akron. he hated people from cleveland.


:facepalm


R U F'ing serious?

Have you ever been to Ohio?

- I said his Home town team ( since technically Akron has no pro basketball team.....I guess I was refrencing the pro team that was 20 minutes down the road)...Because only people who live in that exact area code will be Cavs fans

- I said his Hometown fans....but you are right....only people in Akron loved Lebron, no one else in Ohio liked him because they hate those country Folk from akron.

- seriously go to Ohio and talk to the people there before you try to sound like you know ......LBJ tried to spin it.....he failed hard.

[ShaqAttack3234]

- GTFO with the Free Agent BS....

- His scenario was much different....This was not Shaq in Orlando ( most fans voted Shaq was not worth his contract) Shaq was prolly really hurt by this....opposite was True for Lebron....

- Lebron was Loved by everyone in OHIO....added it was his hometown team, Lebron definatley meant alot more to his team then Shaq did in Orlando.

- Of course Lebron earned his title....He actually played amazing in Crunchtime and was counted on during the most important part of the games....(proving why he was the best player last year.....because he was an elite CLOSER!)

because looking at 11'..when he also had the most stacked team and lost to the MAVS...his crunchtime play was atrocous....prolly the main reason why Miami lost....

Bieng able to make plays in crunchtime is the most valuable attribute during the post season.

- That's why I will say this....how can you say he needed better teammates in Cleveland?....he had great teammates that palyed very well together, Back 2 Back seasons of the best record in the NBA and your saying he had no help....( You lost all credibility)....

one second you say "No one wins by themselves"....next you say " a 62 win team was just Lebron...he didn't have any good teammates"....Hypocrite much?


"many playesr get drafted into better situations"..???...they do?

He played for his Hometown team/fans....that adored him.

By his 4th season he was playing in the NBA Finals..

then he played on back 2 back 60+ win teams who favorites to win it all

He then Joined 2 other superstars in his prime....and still lost ( again not bieng able to close games...just as he didn't in Cleveland)

He changed his mentality and took over the 4th quarters and won a Title....he could have done the same thing Cleveland...and it would meant so so so much more.


and what's really crazy is...he changed his Number to 6 in 2010 before the season was halfway over....:confusedshrug: WTF?...

how convienient.

Many thought Shaq was going to leave and go to LA regardless. The Magic actually filed tampering charges, iirc. Only difference was that he left a better team in Orlando expected by many to be the next dynasty with an established superstar to go to a Laker team not as good. But if anything, I prefer Lebron's reason for leaving. Shaq leaving Orlando may have had something to do with them being less aggressive in signing him, and the poll to some extent, but it seemed like he wanted to go their for fame. Lebron going to Miami was about winning, aside from that disgusting "Decision" special.

Moses Malone also left Houston after an MVP season to go to a team that had been to the finals the previous year with Dr. J and multiple all-stars. Do you have a problem with that?

There was a reason for free agency, and it was so teams didn't own players. It's a lot better this way and makes hold outs less frequent. Lebron never demanded a trade, signed an extension to stay there beyond his rookie contract and played out that second contract. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Why should he let others decide where he was going to go?

2010 was a missed opportunity for Lebron with his play the last 3 games after the 2-1 lead, but there was no reason to suspect that team was going to be better the next season.

I never said Lebron didn't have any help in Cleveland. In '09 and '10 he had very good defensive teams and rebounding teams, although that got worse after the Jamison trade. But he still had shooters and a few good scorers. They played well in the regular season, but were exposed in the playoffs, both Cleveland's offense and the key players genuinely came up small.

Lebron has his ring now, and a chance for a couple more. I don't think that would have happened in Cleveland, and apparently Lebron didn't either.

As far as the situation he was drafted in. Other stars have been drafted into situations where there's already another star or 2, or the team is already a playoff team. That was not the case with Lebron.

[r15mohd]

- Not when you are the star....the best player on the team......the one who is depended on in the crucial moments...Lebron was not an old veteran ready to call it quits.......he was not a battle tested warrior to old to be the man...he was still in hs prime!!!

- You just said it's ok to leave his team because they couldn't beat the Celtics...WTF?...what kind of message does that send?

- Basketball is about standing together and trying to win....and as the leader you are responsible for the pulse of the team.

- when the going got tough...Lebron left his Squad and quit to go join the enemy.....just so he could win the battle.

- that does not make one great...it makes them a trader......traders don't leave legacies


MJ went to the Wizards
Barkley went to Houston
Clyde went to Houston
Shaq went...everywhere, LoL
Mr Tiple Double (Oscar) teamed up with Jabbar to chase rings

all are legends...should I continue?!? :rolleyes:

[AlphaWolf24]

Many thought Shaq was going to leave and go to LA regardless. The Magic actually filed tampering charges, iirc. Only difference was that he left a better team in Orlando expected by many to be the next dynasty with an established superstar to go to a Laker team not as good. But if anything, I prefer Lebron's reason for leaving. Shaq leaving Orlando may have had something to do with them being less aggressive in signing him, and the poll to some extent, but it seemed like he wanted to go their for fame. Lebron going to Miami was about winning, aside from that disgusting "Decision" special.

Moses Malone also left Houston after an MVP season to go to a team that had been to the finals the previous year with Dr. J and multiple all-stars. Do you have a problem with that?

There was a reason for free agency, and it was so teams didn't own players. It's a lot better this way and makes hold outs less frequent. Lebron never demanded a trade, signed an extension to stay there beyond his rookie contract and played out that second contract. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Why should he let others decide where he was going to go?

2010 was a missed opportunity for Lebron with his play the last 3 games after the 2-1 lead, but there was no reason to suspect that team was going to be better the next season.

I never said Lebron didn't have any help in Cleveland. In '09 and '10 he had very good defensive teams and rebounding teams, although that got worse after the Jamison trade. But he still had shooters and a few good scorers. They played well in the regular season, but were exposed in the playoffs, both Cleveland's offense and the key players genuinely came up small.

Lebron has his ring now, and a chance for a couple more. I don't think that would have happened in Cleveland, and apparently Lebron didn't either.

As far as the situation he was drafted in. Other stars have been drafted into situations where there's already another star or 2, or the team is already a playoff team. That was not the case with Lebron.

- his team came up small in 11' too.....but he worked hard to get better....why not do that in Cleveland?...as they were so close to a Title

- Nearly everyone thought the Cavs were going to beat Orlando also.....of course both years were missed opportunity's....Lebron just needed to work on his overall game a little....

- 2011' was also a missed opportunity.....

- 2012' Lebron looked alot better from 15' and beyond....he obviously put in alot of work to get better during the offseason...If he played like that in the 4th quarters of 09' 10' 11' he would have been to the Finals and prolly won em' all.

- No doubt in my mind...that this Lebron we see today....combined with his teammates in Cleveland could have won a Title....

- again...Moses Malone was not on a 63 win team favorites to win it all...he was not from Houston and didn't have everyones imaginations/control like Lebron had.

- Lebron was drafted with another star...Big Z was an allstar the year before....and Boozer was a servicable Forward.

He has had Good and great teams his whole career.....outta his 10 seasons...5 of his teams were favorites to win it all.....

poor Lebron.

[LikeABosh]

Maybe because the Heat just won the Finals last season:lebronamazed: Let's not act like Wade is some scrub, dropping over 20 per game on 51% shooting while coasting. Also, Cleveland is a shit hole

[Hank]

What was the point of Lebron coming to Miami?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287715

[SilkkTheShocker]

List of players that could have won a title with Mo Williams at the 2nd option:

[AlphaWolf24]

MJ went to the Wizards
Barkley went to Houston
Clyde went to Houston
Shaq went...everywhere, LoL
Mr Tiple Double (Oscar) teamed up with Jabbar to chase rings

all are legends...should I continue?!? :rolleyes:


- MJ went to the Wizards when he owned part of the team at 38 years old....

he didn't Quit on the Bull's in 90' after Losing again to the Pistons during his prime.

- Barkley went to Houston again at the Twighlight of his career....Barkley is From Alabama...and destroys chemistry everywhere he goes.

- Clyde was also at the end of his career when he went to Houston....after his Portland teams were disbanded

- Shaq left Orlando because the fans said he wasn't worth the money.....he was not a Hometown Kid loved by all...

- Lebron left his Hometown team/fans in his prime while his team was good enough to be favorites to win it all 2 years in a row.....just so he could ring chase:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

List of players that could have won a title with Mo Williams at the 2nd option:


List of Players who could have won a Title with Prime Wade and Prime Bosh..


A

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*, Ray Allen, Paul Arizin*, Tiny Archibald*, Alvan Adams, Danny Ainge,

[r15mohd]

- MJ went to the Wizards when he owned part of the team at 38 years old....

he didn't Quit on the Bull's in 90' after Losing again to the Pistons during his prime.

- Barkley went to Houston again at the Twighlight of his career....Barkley is From Alabama...and destroys chemistry everywhere he goes.

- Clyde was also at the end of his career when he went to Houston....after his Portland teams were disbanded

- Shaq left Orlando because the fans said he wasn't worth the money.....he was not a Hometown Kid loved by all...

- Lebron left his Hometown team/fans in his prime while his team was good enough to be favorites to win it all 2 years in a row.....just so he could ring chase:confusedshrug:

and the best legened in the group, oscar robertson...he was in his prime when he left wasnt he? do explain... why'd you leave him out? :confusedshrug:

your argument is being loyal and not a traitor...all those players, outside of MJ, I listed above would be considered traitors because they left their legacies to chase rings right? the age doesn't mean anything in that instance.

[AlphaWolf24]

and the best legened in the group, oscar robertson...he was in his prime when he left wasnt he? do explain... why'd you leave him out? :confusedshrug:

your argument is being loyal and not a traitor...all those players, outside of MJ, I listed above would be considered traitors because they left their legacies to chase rings right? the age doesn't mean anything in that instance.


I wasn't around when Oscar played Basketball...I never saw him play.....I will not talk about stuff I don't know or wasn't around to see...

( unlike most posters )

- I will talk about Players I watched and know about fully...

- None of those players you mentioned were any where near as worshipped or as valuable to thier team/city/state/community as Lebron was.(outside of maybe Jordan)

- and age has alot to do with it.....especially if the player is in his twighlight ( maybe only a few years left and his teams are no longer contenders)

- Lebrons whole decision just stunk of self pitty/self adornment/selfishness...period.

- He played on a great team....in a great city with great fans who loved him like a son.......on top of that he knew he was leaving before the season even ended......the whole thing stunk.

[ShaqAttack3234]

- his team came up small in 11' too.....but he worked hard to get better....why not do that in Cleveland?...as they were so close to a Title

He was working to get better and getting results. Look at his shooting in '09 and '10 compared to '07 and '08, or his poor defense his first 3 years compared to '09 and '10.

They really weren't that close to a title. They lost in the second round and there was no reason to believe they'd be better in '11 with Shaq set to be 39, Ilgauskas 35 and Jamison 34.


- Nearly everyone thought the Cavs were going to beat Orlando also.....of course both years were missed opportunity's....Lebron just needed to work on his overall game a little....

Lebron working on his overall game would not have beaten Orlando. Orlando caused all sorts of match up problems, Lebron's teammates choked and Mike Brown was thoroughly outcoached. The fact that Lebron had them competitive by himself is pretty amazing.


- 2011' was also a missed opportunity.....

No doubt about it. A huge one. If Lebron plays decently, and does ANYTHING in the 4th quarter at all, they probably win.


- 2012' Lebron looked alot better from 15' and beyond....he obviously put in alot of work to get better during the offseason...If he played like that in the 4th quarters of 09' 10' 11' he would have been to the Finals and prolly won em' all.

Lebron was better in 2012, though it wasn't his jump shot that was better. You're also focusing too much on just the 4th quarters. Lebron's final 3 games vs Boston in 2010 were bad games, and his finals series in 2011 was terrible. The 4th quarters were remarkably bad, but he didn't have a good series in general.


- No doubt in my mind...that this Lebron we see today....combined with his teammates in Cleveland could have won a Title....

But would he have won a title? He had a chance to win titles in '09 and '10, but not great chances without him playing completely out of their mind, and not with teams many others would have a chance to win with.

The Cavs made a big mistake in 2010 by making the trade for Shaq in anticipation of a rematch with Orlando. As it turns out, they didn't even get there. Shaq did play fine in the playoffs, but I think they had better chemistry with Z. And the Jamison trade hurt one of their greatest strengths, their defense. KG just feasted on him. Their '09 roster would have been better vs the Celtics, and their '10 roster would have been better vs the Magic.


- again...Moses Malone was not on a 63 win team favorites to win it all...he was not from Houston and didn't have everyones imaginations/control like Lebron had.

I really don't care where Moses was from. That should have nothing to do with his basketball career.


- Lebron was drafted with another star...Big Z was an allstar the year before....and Boozer was a servicable Forward.

Hm, yeah, very similar to being drafted to a team with prime Kareem, Jamaal Wilkes and Norm Nixon, right?


He has had Good and great teams his whole career.....outta his 10 seasons...5 of his teams were favorites to win it all.....

The Cavs were not the favorites to win it all in '09. The Lakers were. Same with 2010. The Cavs were expected to get to the finals each year, but not based on '09 preseason expectations. Only after Lebron led them to 66 wins and dominated the first 2 rounds.

You already conceded that Lebron earned his ring by playing great so what's the problem? And if you're correct that his chances were similar to win a title in Cleveland then what's your problem? If his Cleveland teams were close, then it's not taking a "shortcut" is it?

Free agency is around for a reason. I much prefer when guys play out their contracts and don't demand trades.

[Magic bird]

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]List of Players who could have won a Title with Prime Wade and Prime Bosh..


A

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*, Ray Allen, Paul Arizin*, Tiny Archibald*, Alvan Adams, Danny Ainge,

[Money 23]

- He played on a great team....in a great city with great fans who loved him like a son.......on top of that he knew he was leaving before the season even ended......the whole thing stunk.
That's the real kicker. Dragging that franchise through the mud in the process. If he grew up in Akron and hated Cleveland as much as he said, why did he re-sign with them in 2006 when he could've left after his rookie contract?

It's quite clear there was a plan to leave Cleveland for awhile. The number changing thing was proof of that without a doubt in my mind. Also, mentally checking out in that series v.s. the Celtics in 2010 after they were up 2 games to 1. The mysterious elbow injury as a built in excuse surfaced during the Bulls series, even though he was ballin like crazy. Common sense tells me it was all pre-planned, shady style.

[Kiddlovesnets]

- MJ went to the Wizards when he owned part of the team at 38 years old....

he didn't Quit on the Bull's in 90' after Losing again to the Pistons during his prime.


Yeah sure we agree with the greatness of MJ, but imagine him playing with Mo Williams as his best teammate. That Cavs team was just pathetic, its Lebron one man show just like Shaq was doing in early 2000s. Well at least Shaq still got a HOF coach and fast growing star SG as his left and right hand man. What Lebron had was Mike Brown and Mo Williams.
:lol

[Kurosawa0]

Because, even with his inconsistent play, Dwyane Wade is in a different stratosphere than Mo Williams.

[Soundwave]

How many titles would

Jordan
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Duncan

Have with Anderson Verajo as the second best player on their team?

He was never winning anything in Cleveland, they failed to get him a very good no.2 and solid no.3 option that all great players who go on to win multiple titles have.

He had a chance to go to a team where he would have no.2 and no.3 options of high quality and live on South Beach. Easy choice. If it wasn't for the "you're our home town boy!" guilt trip nonsense, it shouldn't even have been something to think about for more than 5 seconds.

[Mr. Jabbar]

The point was shortcutting to a ring op.

[Money 23]

Yeah sure we agree with the greatness of MJ, but imagine him playing with Mo Williams as his best teammate.
Up until around the '89 season when Pip really started to blossom, that's the caliber of what MJ was playing with.

MJ didn't leave the Bulls, he went to be in the Washington management because Krause resented Jordan, and refused to give him a position within the team.

Outcasting the man who made him all his money, gave him his success, and made the franchise credible. As you can see Krause wasn't a smart man.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Up until around the '89 season when Pip really started to blossom, that's the caliber of what MJ was playing with.

MJ didn't leave the Bulls, he went to be in the Washington management because Krause resented Jordan, and refused to give him a position within the team.

Outcasting the man who made him all his money, gave him his success, and made the franchise credible. As you can see Krause wasn't a smart man.

You really think so? Even a rookie Pippen was a way better player than prime Mo Williams, who never knew how to pass the ball properly.

[Magic bird]

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]List of Players who could have won a Title with Prime Wade and Prime Bosh..


A

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar*, Ray Allen, Paul Arizin*, Tiny Archibald*, Alvan Adams, Danny Ainge,

[Money 23]

You really think so? Even a rookie Pippen was a way better player than prime Mo Williams, who never knew how to pass the ball properly.
I KNOW so. No he wasn't. When people think of Pippen, they think of the finalized product. They think of him as a player as he was from '91 - '97 / '98. A legit star player.

Pippen was a project. I wouldn't even call him officially legit until the 1990 season. And then he had the mental breakdown v.s. the Pistons in the conference finals.

Don't go overboard. Mo Williams is a playoff failure, where the real test of a caliber of player comes into question but 2009 and 2010 Mo Williams is better than rookie Scottie Pippen.

He also had a slew of good role players who fit Bron's ball dominant, stat producing, superstar game. Anderson Varajaeo (sp), Delonte West, Big Z ... not superstars per se, but effective role players.

I don't think LeBron's squad in those seasons is worse than MJ's pre 1991. The Bulls and Mike in order to have true success had to wait for Pippen to catch up.

[AlphaWolf24]

Yeah sure we agree with the greatness of MJ, but imagine him playing with Mo Williams as his best teammate. That Cavs team was just pathetic, its Lebron one man show just like Shaq was doing in early 2000s. Well at least Shaq still got a HOF coach and fast growing star SG as his left and right hand man. What Lebron had was Mike Brown and Mo Williams.
:lol


- Why not Mo williams?...Hakeem won with Sam Cassell as the 2nd option....

Tim Duncan won with 33 year old David Robinson as the 2nd option...

Dirk won with 33 year old Jason terry as the 2nd option...( against Miami's big 3)

I gaurantee if MJ won 63 games in back 2 back seasons he wouldn't have left to join Magic Johnson and Kareem...just to beat the Celtics or Pistons.


Lebron had an allstar caliber center his rookie year!...from Ben Wallace to Anderson varajao to Mo Williams to Carlos Boozer...From Young Z to old Shaq..from Prime Wade and Bosh to Young Shannon brown and Snow...he has lost.

[AlphaWolf24]

I KNOW so. No he wasn't. When people think of Pippen, they think of the finalized product. They think of him as a player as he was from '91 - '97 / '98. A legit star player.

Pippen was a project. I wouldn't even call him officially legit until the 1990 season. And then he had the mental breakdown v.s. the Pistons in the conference finals.

Don't go overboard. Mo Williams is a playoff failure, where the real test of a caliber of player comes into question but 2009 and 2010 Mo Williams is better than rookie Scottie Pippen.

He also had a slew of good role players who fit Bron's ball dominant, stat producing, superstar game. Anderson Varajaeo (sp), Delonte West, Big Z ... not superstars per se, but effective role players.

I don't think LeBron's squad in those seasons is worse than MJ's pre 1991. The Bulls and Mike in order to have true success had to wait for Pippen to catch up.


- But that's the thing...Pippen showed huge potential his rookie year...as did Mo williams and the whole Cleveland squad!!!

why Give up on that.....no team just wins 60+ games 2 years in a row without great play and huge chemistry...

- anyone who sits here and says " uhhh...the Cavs just didn't look like they would get better...deerrr...derr..."

obviously never played organized basketball......Chemistry is the major factor in team sucesss....The cavs just wern't quite there yet...but the were very close.

- If you ever played organized basketball....you would understand this, If Lebron had the same refined game he has today, he would have gotten Cleveland over the hump....

Just as MJ did in Chicago.....MJ say the potential in his team......he didn't quit and to Join Magic and Kareem....

Thank GOD!....we had Bird ,Magic and MJ ( vs magic , Barkley Malone etc...etc..).....real rivalries.

( how great would it have been to see Wade and Lebron playing each other in the playoff's or even the regular season for the past 2- 5 years)

instead we get this....sorry Ohio/fans

[hon]

Lebron leaving is a gutless move... he's a coward.

I like my superstars to stay in their scenario and battle other teams, even if they lose time and time again.

Think about Patrick Ewing...

http://media-cache-ec4.pinterest.com/upload/82261130663694361_N9Q9bQno_c.jpg

He got punked by Jordan in so many playoff series...

Did he ever think about leaving New York and maybe joining Reggie Miller and the Pacers in his prime just so he could beat the Bulls? No way...

You gotta respect Ewing for not quitting... and for having a competitive spirit to try to climb the mountain that were the Bulls and Jordan...

Lebron should have had the same desire to overcome the Celtics and earn a championship that way...

Just like how Jordan had to endure years of gettng pumped by the Pistons until finally getting the better of them in a few years...

There's a natural progression and Lebron decided to take a cheat sheet or cheat codes to finish the game...

Awesome... mission accomplished... how rewarding is that...

[ripthekik]

Lebron leaving is a gutless move... he's a coward.

I like my superstars to stay in their scenario and battle other teams, even if they lose time and time again.

Think about Patrick Ewing...

http://media-cache-ec4.pinterest.com/upload/82261130663694361_N9Q9bQno_c.jpg

He got punked by Jordan in so many playoff series...

Did he ever think about leaving New York and maybe joining Reggie Miller and the Pacers in his prime just so he could beat the Bulls? No way...

You gotta respect Ewing for not quitting... and for having a competitive spirit to try to climb the mountain that were the Bulls and Jordan...

Lebron should have had the same desire to overcome the Celtics and earn a championship that way...

Just like how Jordan had to endure years of gettng pumped by the Pistons until finally getting the better of them in a few years...

There's a natural progression and Lebron decided to take a cheat sheet or cheat codes to finish the game...

Awesome... mission accomplished... how rewarding is that...
:applause:

this thread has so many great posts, it deserves to be archived in ISH history of great threads

[BankShot]

My guess is that it was that NBA Championship he won last year :confusedshrug: