So, James Harden or Westbrook?

[Micku]

Who is the better player?

I think we are far enough in the season to analysis how good they are.

It seems like Harden is the better scorer. He is taking slightly less shots and scoring four points more, and just more efficient than Westbrook. Harden is averaging 17.7 FGA per game but scoring 26.3 ppg atm. Westbrook is averaging 18.6 FGA per game but scoring 22.4 ppg. Harden also seems like he is the better driver and finisher. Tho Westbrook has slightly better jumpshot although both aren't elite either.

Westbrook may be the better playmaker this year, but he is with Durant. While Harden was on the Thunder, Harden seemed better. Or he was better at running the offense.

Westbrook is better on defense tho.

In a way, it is somewhat unfair to compare them since Harden is the lead dog on his team, but they are both taking the same amount of shots and directing the offense.

[Legends66NBA7]

Russell Westbrook for me.

A better all-around player, plays with more energy, and should be great in the playoffs again... which I can't really say the same about the playoffs with Harden.

[TylerOO]

Harden is a better scorer and playmaker. Westbrook on defense only because Harden doesnt give a **** on that end. If he tried he would be an All-Defensive player.

[dirkdiggler41]

Put Westbrook on the Rockets and you get Steve Francis.

Put Harden on the Rockets and get what Manu could have been.

[KDthunderup]

The one that turned up in the finals

[Micku]

Russell Westbrook for me.

A better all-around player, plays with more energy, and should be great in the playoffs again... which I can't really say the same about the playoffs with Harden.

Yeah, I would say the same thing as well, but it seems that Harden has improved this year or he always been like this, but finally getting the chance to spread his wings.

Westbrook does play with more energy and seem like the better all around player to me, but he does do silly plays and isn't that efficient. He just keeps on attacking tho. Harden seems like the better offensive player this year tho.

[Magic bird]

Its hard to say, Westbrook upped his stats this year and his playing better defense than last year, on the other hand, Harden is a good playmaker and scorer who is uncredited for his stellar efficiency. I take Harden, but its pretty close.

[KobeBaRyant]

Harden.

[Budadiiii]

LOL....... really?

Westbrook, and it isn't even remotely close.

[pnyozzzoo]

LOL....... really?

Westbrook, and it isn't even remotely close.
LOL westbrook as first option would suck big balls, harden for 1st option wb for sec option. both cannot out duel each other that way.

[USABall]

I'll take the guy that gives me the most effort, and whom I can rely on every day. We know both are capable of performing well as a first option. We know both are capable of facilitating.

I'll take the guy that shows up every game like the world ends the next day, has passion and heart written on his face, and tries his best not to miss a game, he hasn't yet.

Both players are really good, but what I think sets them apart, is Russell Westbrook's refusal to give up or give in.

EDIT: I don't think it is lopsided; The decision is hard to make.

[Budadiiii]

I'll take the guy that gives me the most effort, and whom I can rely on every day. We know both are capable of performing well as a first option. We know both are capable of facilitating.

I'll take the guy that shows up every game like the world ends the next day, has passion and heart written on his face, and tries his best not to miss a game, he hasn't yet.

Both players are really good, but what I think sets them apart, is Russell Westbrook's refusal to give up or give in.
People just don't get it. Maybe they just don't watch enough Thunder games or something. They don't know how dedicated this dude is and how important he is.
Idc what option he is, im taking Westbrook 10 times out of 10.

[LoneyROY7]

Harden is a better scorer and playmaker. Westbrook on defense only because Harden doesnt give a **** on that end. If he tried he would be an All-Defensive player.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Graviton]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
That fool was probably thinking about Eric Godon.

[TylerOO]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:lol I was joking there. Just thought I'd throw that in to get a response :lol

[LoneyROY7]

That fool was probably thinking about Eric Godon.

He must've been.

[lakerfreak]

To me, a Harden vs Westbrook comparison is like a Kobe vs Lebron comparison, respectively.

Guys like Harden and Kobe are pure scorers. Try to get the bucket from anywhere on the floor. Their one goal is to score and they both do it so well.

Westbrook and Lebron will both have their games where they can get 40 to 50. But both of their trends seem to focus more on other areas of the stat sheet. Lebron and Westbrook would both have more triple doubles, and Kobe and Harden would both have more offensive explosions.

Good thread I think.

[ganja0710]

To me, a Harden vs Westbrook comparison is like a Kobe vs Lebron comparison, respectively.

Guys like Harden and Kobe are pure scorers. Try to get the bucket from anywhere on the floor. Their one goal is to score and they both do it so well.

Westbrook and Lebron will both have their games where they can get 40 to 50. But both of their trends seem to focus more on other areas of the stat sheet. Lebron and Westbrook would both have more triple doubles, and Kobe and Harden would both have more offensive explosions.

Good thread I think.
Interesting. Good comparison, but I think it'd be vice versa. Russ is definitely more of a Kobe and Harden more like a Lebron. Not saying they're at their certain levels but in terms of skill sets and how they play, I think that'd be more accurate.

I still go with Russ though. Somebody said it earlier, his passion and energy is unmatched.

[Micku]

People just don't get it. Maybe they just don't watch enough Thunder games or something. They don't know how dedicated this dude is and how important he is.
Idc what option he is, im taking Westbrook 10 times out of 10.

It's true that Westbrook plays with energy and don't give up from the games that I've saw him in. But, he doesn't really make the best plays out there at times. Harden is more efficient at it scoring and running the offense, but Westbrook could give you more triple doubles because he is so energetic and have a better all around game from his constant attacking. But sometimes, he should be passing it to Durant instead.

Harden seems like he is smarter. This year he has been great so far.

I think it's interesting.

[chazzy]

Harden

[lakerfreak]

Interesting. Good comparison, but I think it'd be vice versa. Russ is definitely more of a Kobe and Harden more like a Lebron. Not saying they're at their certain levels but in terms of skill sets and how they play, I think that'd be more accurate.

I still go with Russ though. Somebody said it earlier, his passion and energy is unmatched.

I would go with Russel too, just as I would go for Lebron. Those guys are very three dimensional in their styles of play. And Russel does have a bit more of a feel for scoring than most all around players. Their energy on the floor is whats most inspiring for their teammates. The Lebron led cavs had a bunch of scrubs that all played hard, and as a result, they went to the finals.

Whereas you see someone like Kobe holding the ball, and everyone stands around and watches rather than does something beneficial.

As a GM, I would go with the more complete player across the board.

[Whoah10115]

Westbrook has a better jumper? No, Harden is has a great shot. Westbrook does not.

Harden is the better passer and the better traditional playmaker. But, despite his non-PGness, Westbrook is better at running a team fullcourt. It's all due to his motor and the way he makes the defense collapses. I think OKC is the one place he can get away with playing PG like this. Harden slows it down too much to really be a PG...a lot like Lebron, in that sense. He gets too ball-dominant in those cases. Westbrook is the better defender and they're both very good rebounders...I would take Westbrook there, for now. He gets a good amount for a point.



LOL....... really?

Westbrook, and it isn't even remotely close.



:oldlol:

[SCdac]

any word on why the Rockets just lost 6 in a row? ... I never had high hopes for them anyways, but I thought they were playing better than that... Harden sure has jacked up alot of three's. 10/41 from beyond in his last five games... Both players seem like great 2nd options to me, who could be 1st options on fringe playoff teams/low seeded playoff teams.

[Graviton]

Everyone here acting like Harden is a better playmaker lol. Westbrook is the one averaging 8.5 assists while Harden can't even break 6 with the highest scoring team in the league, better shooters, finishers and bench. Not to mention Harden is even more turnover prone than Westbrook and can't handle traps.

I know people gonna say "Durant" and "1st option", but Westbrook averaged 8APG his 1st two seasons as well when OKC wasn't as good. And Westbrook IS the 1st option on Thunder, he is the only good ball handler and facilitator on the team. He is a better passer than Harden, his bounce and bullet passes are top notch, the fact Westbrook can break down defenses and power through double teams with pure speed puts him on another level. He is a better defender and rebounder too.

Did anyone even watch what happened to Harden vs OKC this year? Westbrook/Thabo took turns shitting on him while he couldn't do ANYTHING in those 2 games. When Harden isn't getting his floppy eurostep fouls, he is pretty much useless.

[Micku]

Westbrook has a better jumper? No, Harden is has a great shot. Westbrook does not.

Harden is the better passer and the better traditional playmaker. But, despite his non-PGness, Westbrook is better at running a team fullcourt. Harden slows it down too much. Westbrook is the better defender and they're both very good rebounders...I would take Westbrook there, for now. He gets a good amount for a point.


That's not true. At least that Harden has a better shot. He hardly ever was better than Westbrook at it. Look at the percentage for this year:

Westbrook:

10 to 15 ft: 34.0%
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.2%
3pt: 35.5%

Jumpshot overall: 35.2%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2013/

Harden:

10 to 15 ft: 32.3%
16 ft to 3-pt: 35.9%
3pt: 33.8%

Jumpshot overall: 33.4%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/shooting/2013/


Both aren't stellar this year, but Westbrook is better at every field this year so far. He was better last year too with his mid-range game being close to automatic. Harden was better last year, especially at the 3, but still wasn't better than Westbrook overall.

[ganja0710]

That's not true. At least that Harden has a better shot. He hardly ever was better than Westbrook at it. Look at the percentage for this year:

Westbrook:

10 to 15 ft: 34.0%
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.2%
3pt: 35.5%

Jumpshot overall: 35.2%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2013/

Harden:

10 to 15 ft: 32.3%
16 ft to 3-pt: 35.9%
3pt: 33.8&

Jumpshot overall: 33.4%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/shooting/2013/


Both aren't stellar this year, but Westbrook is better at every field this year so far. He was better last year too with his mid-range game being close to automatic. Harden was better last year, especially at the 3, but still wasn't better than Westbrook overall.
Great find. Thought Harden would be the better mid range shooter.

[shoops]

any word on why the Rockets just lost 6 in a row? ... I never had high hopes for them anyways, but I thought they were playing better than that... Harden sure has jacked up alot of three's. 10/41 from beyond in his last five games... Both players seem like great 2nd options to me, who could be 1st options on fringe playoff teams/low seeded playoff teams.
Easy. McHale is clueless when it comes to managing minutes. Conceding the game with only 1 minute left to go when there's another game the next day? We're on a 5 game stretch in 6 days. He's running the starters into the ground, and Harden has no legs to make a shot. Doesn't help that McHale leaves him in the game even when he's bricking badly.

[Pistol Pete]

Harden is the better player, but Westbrook is the more valuable piece for Oklahoma City.

[Micku]

Everyone here acting like Harden is a better playmaker lol. Westbrook is the one averaging 8.5 assists while Harden can't even break 6 with the highest scoring team in the league, better shooters, finishers and bench. Not to mention Harden is even more turnover prone than Westbrook and can't handle traps.

I know people gonna say "Durant" and "1st option", but Westbrook averaged 8APG his 1st two seasons as well when OKC wasn't as good. And Westbrook IS the 1st option on Thunder, he is the only good ball handler and facilitator on the team. He is a better passer than Harden, his bounce and bullet passes are top notch, the fact Westbrook can break down defenses and power through double teams with pure speed puts him on another level. He is a better defender and rebounder too.

Did anyone even watch what happened to Harden vs OKC this year? Westbrook/Thabo took turns shitting on him while he couldn't do ANYTHING in those 2 games. When Harden isn't getting his floppy eurostep fouls, he is pretty much useless.

Well, there's a few things that you said that is debatable and not true. Westbrook didn't average 8 in his first year, but his next couple of years he did. And Durant was still on the team back then.

But skipping through everything and going for the bold comment, I think his driving did work against OKC. He got to the line, like he always did even when shooting a horrible percentage against them. Do you know atm he is averaging 21 ppg against OKC on 26% shooting? He did that with 16.5 FGA. Westbrook average more FGA with 18.5, but he only has 21 ppg against the Rockets. Westbrook obviously played better, but Harden driving always work. He gets the foul every time.

[Whoah10115]

That's not true. At least that Harden has a better shot. He hardly ever was better than Westbrook at it. Look at the percentage for this year:

Westbrook:

10 to 15 ft: 34.0%
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.2%
3pt: 35.5%

Jumpshot overall: 35.2%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2013/

Harden:

10 to 15 ft: 32.3%
16 ft to 3-pt: 35.9%
3pt: 33.8%

Jumpshot overall: 33.4%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/shooting/2013/


Both aren't stellar this year, but Westbrook is better at every field this year so far. He was better last year too with his mid-range game being close to automatic. Harden was better last year, especially at the 3, but still wasn't better than Westbrook overall.



Harden is doing a lot and I think his jumper is below it's usual standard. But he's a better shooter. I see the stats. Westbrook does well at getting to his spots and playing from within them. But Harden is certainly a better pure shooter.

[StateOfMind12]

Westbrook. A better all-around player and more reliable in crunch-time. If the Rockets make the playoffs, I expect Harden to not play so well. Harden is still a top 2 SG, but Westbrook is a top 2 PG too..

[Magic bird]

I'll take the guy that gives me the most effort, and whom I can rely on every day. We know both are capable of performing well as a first option. We know both are capable of facilitating.

I'll take the guy that shows up every game like the world ends the next day, has passion and heart written on his face, and tries his best not to miss a game, he hasn't yet.

Both players are really good, but what I think sets them apart, is Russell Westbrook's refusal to give up or give in.

EDIT: I don't think it is lopsided; The decision is hard to make.

:cry: Truly beautiful post :applause:

[Micku]

Harden is doing a lot and I think his jumper is below it's usual standard. But he's a better shooter. I see the stats. Westbrook does well at getting to his spots and playing from within them. But Harden is certainly a better pure shooter.

I don't see how unless you want to talk about freethrows. Harden wasn't better last year and he isn't better this year while the defense is live. And you can make the argument that Westbrook is below his usual standards too. Westbrook is just better off the dribble when shooting.

Harden is the better driver and finisher tho.



Westbrook. A better all-around player and more reliable in crunch-time. If the Rockets make the playoffs, I expect Harden to not play so well. Harden is still a top 2 SG, but Westbrook is a top 2 PG too..

I dunno about that. Tony Parker is really good this year. He is going under the radar, but he is better than last year. Definitely better offensively.

[Graviton]

I don't see how unless you want to talk about freethrows. Harden wasn't better last year and he isn't better this year while the defense is live. And you can make the argument that Westbrook is below his usual standards too. Westbrook is just better off the dribble when shooting.

Harden is the better driver and finisher tho.



I dunno about that. Tony Parker is really good this year. He is going under the radar, but he is better than last year. Definitely better offensively.
CP3
Westbrook
Healthy Rose

Everybody else

Parker is in Pop's system, Westbrook is producing off raw talent and instinct.

[Whoah10115]

CP3
Westbrook
Healthy Rose

Everybody else

Parker is in Pop's system, Westbrook is producing off raw talent and instinct.



I wouldn't agree with the last part, in general. Parker is a lot of talent. I do think it's very possible that Parker is playing as well as he is, within this system. But I also think Parker is 30 now and that playing in that system has learned how to maximize his talents. In a vacuum, I think he's probably a better player than Parker. But in actuality, Parker is having a better season. He had a better season last year. So I can't agree with these simple terms.


Rondo hasn't played as well lately as he was playing earlier. I think he's a victim of Doc's system (those who think the opposite are looney) and I think he deserves to be ranked, rather easily, above Westbrook. Westbrook was better last year and has probably been better this season, but he hasn't done enough to move past Rondo.

[Micku]

CP3
Westbrook
Healthy Rose

Everybody else

Parker is in Pop's system, Westbrook is producing off raw talent and instinct.

I think Westbrook has better talent, but that doesn't mean he is producing better. Parker is just better offensively and is the better scorer. It was similar last year too, but Parker is even better this year. From 3pt shot, to mid range, to finishing and driving, Parker is better. Westbrook could rebound better and defend better. That could get him over, but it's definitely debatable.

And every player is in a system tho. Pop saw Parker's untapped ability, and he wanted him to lead the show for the Spurs for a couple years now. He is maximizing that system with his ability.

[ProfessorMurder]

I like Harden more.

[ClutchOver9000]

Give me Westbrook.

[All Net]

Westbrook for sure, he does more things better. Westbrook is a top 5-7 player for me..don't see Harden breaking into that just yet.

[GucciBandana]

Harden's a slightly better scorer and a runs the offense better, but Westbrook is way more explosive, as in he can create something out of nothing using his athleticism and fearlessness when the whole team is stuck, everyone is off rhythm, which is really important for the Thunder, since that's something KD lacks.

[hon]

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b497/Hon_Leung/WestbrookHardenDance_zps5fe464f6.jpg

[brantonli]

That's not true. At least that Harden has a better shot. He hardly ever was better than Westbrook at it. Look at the percentage for this year:

Westbrook:

10 to 15 ft: 34.0%
16 ft to 3-pt: 37.2%
3pt: 35.5%

Jumpshot overall: 35.2%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/westbru01/shooting/2013/

Harden:

10 to 15 ft: 32.3%
16 ft to 3-pt: 35.9%
3pt: 33.8%

Jumpshot overall: 33.4%

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01/shooting/2013/


Both aren't stellar this year, but Westbrook is better at every field this year so far. He was better last year too with his mid-range game being close to automatic. Harden was better last year, especially at the 3, but still wasn't better than Westbrook overall.

You've got to bear in mind that Harden doesn't take a lot of midrange shots, a lot of his game is the three pointer or driving straight to the basket:

http://hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx


Here you can see Westbrook and Harden's shot selection. Westbrook takes 1.1 more shots from 10-23 feet but only makes 0.2 more per game, while they both take roughly 6 shots at the rim (6.4 for Harden, 6.2 for Westbrook) but Harden makes 4.2 at the rim compared to 3.4 for Westbrook. I wish there was a better way to isolate the data but it doesn't look like I can do player vs player comparison.

[liquidrage]

Harden is even more careless with the ball then Westbrook. Is prone to stretches of games where he has a negative impact. His passing is overrated. And his defense sucks.

Coach K played Westbrook over Harden at Harden's natural position.

[Whoah10115]

Harden is even more careless with the ball then Westbrook. Is prone to stretches of games where he has a negative impact. His passing is overrated. And his defense sucks.

Coach K played Westbrook over Harden at Harden's natural position.



AKA Westbrook's natural position.



And the first line is just stupid. No he isn't. He's just in a different situation.

[Whoah10115]

Harden's a slightly better scorer and a runs the offense better, but Westbrook is way more explosive, as in he can create something out of nothing using his athleticism and fearlessness when the whole team is stuck, everyone is off rhythm, which is really important for the Thunder, since that's something KD lacks.


Who is that girl in your avatar?

[KG215]

Speaking of Harden's jumper, he's never been a good mid-range shooter. In fact, he's always been a bad mid-range shooter.

As for the question at hand, I'm going Westbrook. The last two years he was clearly OKC's second best player and it was even more apparent last year. He was more consistent and just a better all-around player. Harden's doing even better than I thought as the number one option, but that doesn't mean he's all of a sudden better than Westbrook.

[Mr Exlax]

Westbrook cause there are no other PGs that can stop him or even slow him down. Harden can be stopped by Iggy and Paul George so far. Not team defense but lock down defenders.

[imdaman99]

Westbrook cause there are no other PGs that can stop him or even slow him down. Harden can be stopped by Iggy and Paul George so far. Not team defense but lock down defenders.
The only person that can slow GOATbrook down, is himself :oldlol:

and team defense of course, but team defense could slow anyone down including mj or kobe or lebron

[KG215]

Westbrook cause there are no other PGs that can stop him or even slow him down. Harden can be stopped by Iggy and Paul George so far. Not team defense but lock down defenders.
Thabo has done a pretty good job on him both times this year, too. Granted, some of Harden's struggles (especially in the first game) can be accredited to OKC's team defense.

[Micku]

Crazy game that Harden had against OKC tonight. I want these two teams to meet in the playoffs. It'll be a great story.

[Money 23]

The only person that can slow GOATbrook down, is himself
Which is often the case, because he's mentally handicap.

LOL @ comparing him to Kobe and LeBron. The guy has one of the best shooters / scorers on his team taking the vast majority of defensive attention and he still shoots like crap.

This guy's percentages would be horrendous if he was the sole focus of a defense. Not only would he get more double teams, he'd have to think the game out more. Which we know is too difficult for him.

[steve franchise]

James Harden easily. Why is this even a question?