I thught Chigaco was a horrible team with out Rose?

[Joey3000]

This team is doing great. Most people did not even expect them to make the playoffs with out rose.

SMH if rose was active he would be getting all the credit for this teams hard work. and he would be in the race for MVP.

[red1]

this team benefits greatly from having someone like rose to get them easy points during crunchtime but they have been lucky that players like deng and boozer have been stepping up this year to fill that hole

[GreatGreg]

This team is doing great. Most people did not even expect them to make the playoffs with out rose.

SMH if rose was active he would be getting all the credit for this teams hard work. and he would be in the race for MVP.
A healthy Derrick Rose adds at least 15 wins to this teams schedule. The team deserves credit, no doubt, but believe you me, if Rose was active this team would probably be competing for the first seed, if not have it already.

[nathanjizzle]

bulls without rose = first round knockout by sixers.
bulls with rose= above .83
bulls without rose= .605

[BuffaloBill]

They're 4th seed. If they had Rose, they'd most likely be 1st seed right now.


They are a very good team without Rose, but they are even better with him.

[secund2nun]

Rose is yet another overrated peremiter player taking all of the credit for the main reason why his team wins: defense and rebounding....and Rose has nothing to do with that. Rose is unfairly giving all of the credit in the media's effort to artifically create a superstar in a big market. He is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He is merely a very good, not great player....let alone MVP caliber player.

In 2011 when Chicago got to the ECF they got there with the #1 defense and #1 rebounding and #17 offense.
Rose had nothing to do with the defense and rebounding yet got all of the praise for carrying the mediocre offense with his 8-23 shooting games.

[Micku]

bulls without rose = first round knockout by sixers.
bulls with rose= above .83
bulls without rose= .605
Didn't Noah and Gibson got injured during that series?

Anyway, I think Rose do make them better, and they'll probably be the 1st seed if he was there but they are good without Rose too. They prove that last year, and again this year. You have to give Thibs and the Bulls roster some credit.

[tpols]

A healthy Derrick Rose adds at least 15 wins to this teams schedule. The team deserves credit, no doubt, but believe you me, if Rose was active this team would probably be competing for the first seed, if not have it already.

The Bulls with Rose in 2011 through this point in the season were 25-13.

They are 23-15 now.

Thats two games and if we stretch it out to 82 its 5 games added max. 15 is a streeeeeeetch.

[nathanjizzle]

The Bulls with Rose in 2011 through this point in the season were 25-13.

They are 23-15 now.

Thats two games and if we stretch it out to 82 its 5 games added max. 15 is a streeeeeeetch.

2011 was when the bulls assembled a new team with the coach and alot of new players. you cant compare the begining of the season of that team to this one thats already tenured.

[Kiddlovesnets]

If they can stick around till Rose come back, I can see the Bulls making a push for top seed.

[Kblaze8855]

people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.

[Draz]

They've always been a good team with or without Rose. They have great role players.

[tpols]

2011 was when the bulls assembled a new team with the coach and alot of new players. you cant compare that to a team thats already tenured in 2013
The bulls without rose are going to win mid 50ish games this year. Their defense is elite and they're a very good team.

You think if you add rose they go from 55 wins to 70? No way.. They go to the low 60s so a little over five wins is what rose would add to this team.

There are diminishing returns on teams this good though.. Rose might add 15 to a bad team.

[Joey3000]

Not saying Rose doesnt help, just think he is overrated. He is ranked ahead of guys like:

Westbrook, Rondo, Harden Yet to me he is not clearly better than any of them.

Rondo would be an improvment on defense and would also make scoring easier for the guys around him.

Westbrook and Harden would both bring the same thing Rose brings.

Not bashing Rose, just dont get the hype.

[noob cake]

Rose is yet another overrated peremiter player taking all of the credit for the main reason why his team wins: defense and rebounding....and Rose has nothing to do with that. Rose is unfairly giving all of the credit in the media's effort to artifically create a superstar in a big market. He is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He is merely a very good, not great player....let alone MVP caliber player.

In 2011 when Chicago got to the ECF they got there with the #1 defense and #1 rebounding and #17 offense.
Rose had nothing to do with the defense and rebounding yet got all of the praise for carrying the mediocre offense with his 8-23 shooting games.

This, Rose was and will be one of the worst MVP of all time. He is a more likable Blake Griffin in point guard form. Very little actual skill compared to other superstars, a lot of atheleticism

[nathanjizzle]

Rose is yet another overrated peremiter player taking all of the credit for the main reason why his team wins: defense and rebounding....and Rose has nothing to do with that. Rose is unfairly giving all of the credit in the media's effort to artifically create a superstar in a big market. He is one of the most overrated players in the NBA. He is merely a very good, not great player....let alone MVP caliber player.

In 2011 when Chicago got to the ECF they got there with the #1 defense and #1 rebounding and #17 offense.
Rose had nothing to do with the defense and rebounding yet got all of the praise for carrying the mediocre offense with his 8-23 shooting games.

did you start watching basketball last season? to say rose is just a "good" player and not a "great" player is the dumbest shit i ever heard.

[Kblaze8855]

given a healthy career playing at the level they are playing now every player you just mentioned is going to the Hall of Fame. but you don't get the hype?

[nathanjizzle]

This, Rose was and will be one of the worst MVP of all time. He is a more likable Blake Griffin in point guard form. Very little actual skill compared to other superstars, a lot of atheleticism

the shit people say on this messageboard:facepalm

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Derrick+Rose+Skills+Challenge+mCbkorm-Thil.jpg
http://gifsoup.com/view4/3154014/derrick-rose-layup-orlando-o.gif

[Joey3000]

people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.


Understood, but my question is does Rose make them that much better or does he just take the credit for their hard work?

As was mentioned before the year rose got MVP his teams success was off of dominant rebounding and defense. Nothing to do with Roses horrible shooting percetage.

And if I remember correctly, when they faced Miami in the playoffs that year, they lost 4 in a row and there was nothing this Leader/MVP could do to help his team. He got exposed so badly that the NBA started reconsidering the MVP nomination process.

Again, is he getting more credit than he has earned.

[ballinhun8]

Understood, but my question is does Rose make them that much better or does he just take the credit for their hard work?

As was mentioned before the year rose got MVP his teams success was off of dominant rebounding and defense. Nothing to do with Roses horrible shooting percetage.

And if I remember correctly, when they faced Miami in the playoffs that year, they lost 4 in a row and there was nothing this Leader/MVP could do to help his team. He got exposed so badly that the NBA started reconsidering the MVP nomination process.

Again, is he getting more credit than he has earned.


Stop sounding like such a moron. You're the type of player that has given this board a bad reputation. How dumb do you sound with that obvious Heat homer talk.


And if you watched basketball then you saw how Rose was the one winning games down the stretch against the elite teams like Miami, LA, SA, DAL. Whenever they needed him to come up big he did. And I doubt Westbrook does anything if LeBron is guarding him down the stretch and he doesn't have KD to kick it out to him and bail him out.

[CarlosBoozer]

Me and my homie Noah got this, Let lil Rose rest :pimp:

[Joey3000]

given a healthy career playing at the level they are playing now every player you just mentioned is going to the Hall of Fame. but you don't get the hype?

Ok I'm fine with that... but none of them are placed on the same level as Rose. again, not saying he is not good. But people rank him ahead of guys who are just as good based off the hard work of his teamates.

I'm sure more than half this Board would rank him ahead of Carmelo Anthony. WHY? He is even ranked ahead of guys like Chris Paul by many... WHY?

They are even saying if he was here Chicago would be in first place in the east. What would he bring that would make that arguement valid?

[Go Getter]

This, Rose was and will be one of the worst MVP of all time. He is a more likable Blake Griffin in point guard form. Very little actual skill compared to other superstars, a lot of atheleticism
Yeah because every PG in the league can spin Tyreke Evans around....croos Andre Miller to the floor and toss in acrobatic layups like it is nothing.




Can't wait for Rose to be back so he can make you fool's eat your words.

[Go Getter]

Ok I'm fine with that... but none of them are placed on the same level as Rose. again, not saying he is not good. But people rank him ahead of guys who are just as good based off the hard work of his teamates.

I'm sure more than half this Board would rank him ahead of Carmelo Anthony. WHY? He is even ranked ahead of guys like Chris Paul by many... WHY?

They are even saying if he was here Chicago would be in first place in the east. What would he bring that would make that arguement valid?
We don't get burned by opposing teams pgs when Rose is playing. He dominated Rondo, RW and pretty much any pg you put in front of him in his MVP season.

[nathanjizzle]

The bulls without rose are going to win mid 50ish games this year. Their defense is elite and they're a very good team.

You think if you add rose they go from 55 wins to 70? No way.. They go to the low 60s so a little over five wins is what rose would add to this team.

There are diminishing returns on teams this good though.. Rose might add 15 to a bad team.

heres some math. out of 82 games. bulls this season at .602 is projected to win 49 games.

2 season prior when rose played bulls were at .75 wining percentage.
thats wining 62 games

thats 13 games that rose is propelling his team to win, even when the bulls without him are already above average.

that says alot.

[Go Getter]

Me and my homie Noah got this, Let lil Rose rest :pimp:
Stfu lame

[Joey3000]

Stop sounding like such a moron. You're the type of player that has given this board a bad reputation. How dumb do you sound with that obvious Heat homer talk.


And if you watched basketball then you saw how Rose was the one winning games down the stretch against the elite teams like Miami, LA, SA, DAL. Whenever they needed him to come up big he did. And I doubt Westbrook does anything if LeBron is guarding him down the stretch and he doesn't have KD to kick it out to him and bail him out.

First of all, I'm not a Miami Fan. Only time I meantioned Miami is to make the point that they man-handled a Rose lead Bulls in the playoffs.

Thats the problem with this board. Instead of making a logical arguement, you just call the person arguing a "Homer" and feel you have made a case.

Its funny that after all the things Ive said u single out one word... Miami. Sounds like ur the "homer".

[nathanjizzle]

Ok I'm fine with that... but none of them are placed on the same level as Rose. again, not saying he is not good. But people rank him ahead of guys who are just as good based off the hard work of his teamates.

I'm sure more than half this Board would rank him ahead of Carmelo Anthony. WHY? He is even ranked ahead of guys like Chris Paul by many... WHY?

They are even saying if he was here Chicago would be in first place in the east. What would he bring that would make that arguement valid?

you seriously started watching basketball yesterday? bulls have been first in the east the last 2 seasons when rose was healthy.:facepalm

vs chris paul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8FAmOjKF_k

vs melo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5bFtysx30o


these kids are so uneducated guessers.

[nathanjizzle]

They are even saying if he was here Chicago would be in first place in the east. What would he bring that would make that arguement valid?

let me reroute this idiot that started watching basketball this season.

noo its so outlandish to consider bulls to be first in the east if rose was healthy

http://imageshack.us/a/img339/6118/bullsfirst1.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img593/2904/bullsfirst.png

pls stfu if u dont know what your talking about

[CarlosBoozer]

Stfu lame
http://www.pngfaces.com/images/joomgallery/thumbnails/by_emotion_28/emoticon-smiley-serious_6/nba-carmeloanthony1-serious_20120317_1466971137.png

[BuffaloBill]

Plus they still have Joakim Noah. You can't lose with a guy like that on your team.

[Go Getter]

you seriously started watching basketball yesterday? bulls have been first in the east the last 2 seasons when rose was healthy.:facepalm

vs chris paul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8FAmOjKF_k

vs melo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5bFtysx30o


these kids are so uneducated guessers.
What about the game he went honey baked ham on Rondo? Or the Thunder...when they had to take RW off him and he crossee the shit out of Sefolosha? The game winning step back against the Bucks? 44 against the Hawks?

Dude gets no respect from these lames....which is cool, I hope he comes back with a vengeance so I can rub some e noses in the mud....

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like this is a conversation that would go better in person. I suspect I would find you less foolish.

Exposed so badly the NBA considered changing the nomination process? So Dirk going out shooting 2-11 being eliminated by the 8th seed when is team won 67 games didn't do it? Malone in 1999 verses Portland didn't do it either? rose set the standard by being outplayed by people the basketball world ranked ahead of him anyway?

Sure.

Anyway....

Id love to see some of you ina Rose vs Isiah Thomas or bob cousy topic. I bet you would struggle to figure out why I id find it so funny.

[All Net]

They were very good in the regular season without him last year too. They play great D...so they will always compete.

[TheMarkMadsen]

people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.

This.

The bulls are not serious contenders for a title without rose, without rose their a playoff team in a weak conference that would always be one superstar away from being able to seriously contend.

[tpols]

heres some math. out of 82 games. bulls this season at .602 is projected to win 49 games.

2 season prior when rose played bulls were at .75 wining percentage.
thats wining 62 games

thats 13 games that rose is propelling his team to win, even when the bulls without him are already above average.

that says alot.
That's disingenuous because they were 25-13 then and are 23-15 now and surging upwards.. They're easily finishing with 50+. They're two games off pace what they were with rose. Winning percentages at this point in the season aren't that reliable..

[Clocian-IGN]

if you got haters that means you're damn good. ignore them bulls brehs, if they don't see what makes rose great, they never will and just like trolling.

[Kblaze8855]

something I find a little funny....

most of 2011 and especially late in the year people were claiming rose did not make the impact that Howard did. Bron had wade and bosh. But Dwight had to go it alone. He's making a personal impact unlike rose who is just along for the ride.

then Dwight joins a Lakers team so talented people are talking about 75 wins and owners call secret meetings on how this is exactly what they feared......and big bad Dwight puts up his usual numbers minus the point or two from having talented teammates and they are like 2 games up on the magic. Magic in tenth place lakers in eleventh.

basketball is funny sometimes. makes fools of us all.....

anyone really feel like a 90 percent healthy Derrick Rose in place of a 90 percent healthy Dwight Howard doesn't make the Lakers a little better than they are?

I just have trouble seeing them at 16-22. doesn't mean rose is more impactfull.

Means.....this game is not as simple as records.

Complicated game we have. Complicated and hilarious.

[secund2nun]

did you start watching basketball last season? to say rose is just a "good" player and not a "great" player is the dumbest shit i ever heard.

He is not a great player. Don't let hype influence you.

[97 bulls]

Ok I'm fine with that... but none of them are placed on the same level as Rose. again, not saying he is not good. But people rank him ahead of guys who are just as good based off the hard work of his teamates.

I'm sure more than half this Board would rank him ahead of Carmelo Anthony. WHY? He is even ranked ahead of guys like Chris Paul by many... WHY?

They are even saying if he was here Chicago would be in first place in the east. What would he bring that would make that arguement valid?
Because Rose impact would be much higher than Hinrichs. I dont think anyone is dismissing the fact that the Bulls are built on defense and rebounding. But Rose is very important to the offense. The Bulls have no guy that can create their own shot on a consistent basis.


As far as Rose being MVP in 11. He deserved it. He played a huge role in helping keep the Bulls ahead of the pack during injuries to Noah, and Boozer.

Theres no way you can honestly say Rose wouldnt improve this team.

[97 bulls]

He is not a great player. Don't let hype influence you.
He most definitely is a great player. How many players would you take over him? And whos hyping him? I dont see people comparing Rose to alltime greats. Hes young he has to build a resume.

[Budadiiii]

The guy is criminally overrated.

[guy]

people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.

Great post. Yes, this "with or without star player X" comparison is so flawed and stupid. First of all, people give the impression that when the star player is out, they are playing as if that star player never even existed. They don't take into account that a star player has influence and impact even when he's not on the court. They don't take into account how that player may influence practice habits, promote a winning culture and heighten expectations, hold his teammates accountable and not let them use his absence as an excuse, and other factors as well.

You brought up Dwight Howard, and thats a great example. Lets ignore the drama last year. If Howard was in the same position as Rose last year, I guarantee his playful and un-serious attitude would've translated to his teammates effort on the court and losing games wouldn't have been as big of a deal to his teammates, most likely looking to the excuse that they didn't have Howard. But because of that, naive fans on this board would take the "Bulls did better without Rose then Magic did without Howard" argument to say that Howard has more impact. Its stupid.

[christian1923]

Rose was head and shoulders the best PG in the league when he was healthy. :applause: I miss this guy

[stephanieg]

One reason Rose gets extra hype is because he is athletic and makes impressive looking layups. People don't care about boring productive players who make simple plays.

[97 bulls]

One reason Rose gets extra hype is because he is athletic and makes impressive looking layups. People don't care about boring productive players who make simple plays.
How is he Hyped? Hes an exciting player. People enjoy watching him, but thats as far as it goes. What are people saying thats hyping him? Is he being compared to Magic Johnson? Or being called better Isiah Thomas? He deserved the MVP in 2011. The Heat underachieved, and the Magic did their usual 50 wins.

[leopoldstotch]

You play good defense, you get plenty of chances to win games. That is Chicago's motto right now. On top of that, Hinrich has been ok holding ground while Rose is out.

[Whoah10115]

Rose being out may have forced Noah to improve even more, maybe even Deng. It most certainly has gotten something out of Boozer...something we haven't seen in his time as a Bull.



Rose adds more wins...but mostly, he makes them a championship contender. This team is not a championship contender without him. They're unlikely to get out of the first round. They aren't as good as Miami or New York or Boston when the playoffs start (no matter what Doc tries to do about it). They're not as good as Brooklyn, based on that talent. They're probably not as good as the Pacers.

[Budadiiii]

Put Westbrook on this team and they win 70+ many times and would break their own record multiple times. Westbrook is basically a rich mans DRose with unlimited stamina/durability/passion. DRose is in one of the best positions in NBA history and the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. Shame.

[Velocirap31]

They can thank the refs for beating Toronto. That game led to yet another official apology from the NBA due to 'incorrect' officiating. That's the 3rd or 4th this year now.

[Whoah10115]

Put Westbrook on this team and they win 70+ many times and would break their own record multiple times. Westbrook is basically a rich mans DRose with unlimited stamina/durability/passion. DRose is in one of the best positions in NBA history and the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. Shame.



:oldlol:

[Chicago Brawls]

Put Westbrook on this team and they win 70+ many times and would break their own record multiple times. Westbrook is basically a rich mans DRose with unlimited stamina/durability/passion. DRose is in one of the best positions in NBA history and the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. Shame.

Pair Rose with Durant and you will have a dynasty.

[imdaman99]

you seriously started watching basketball yesterday? bulls have been first in the east the last 2 seasons when rose was healthy.:facepalm

vs chris paul
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8FAmOjKF_k

vs melo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5bFtysx30o


these kids are so uneducated guessers.
being 1st seed is overrated, as we found out last 2 years. its time for the bulls to step up in the playoffs now. #1 seed is nice of course, but it doesnt mean anything if miami exposes you again (with your full roster).

btw, shumpert looked good in his game back. he has no fear, which might not be a good thing considering what he is coming back from. wonder if rose will play the same way, or if hes gonna tone it down. shump definitely didnt :oldlol: which is why coaching staff will be careful with his minutes.

[imdaman99]

Pair Rose with Durant and you will have a dynasty.
not if rose never plays :roll:

[Budadiiii]

not if rose never plays :roll:
:roll:

[Pointguard]

Not saying Rose doesnt help, just think he is overrated. He is ranked ahead of guys like:

Westbrook, Rondo, Harden Yet to me he is not clearly better than any of them.

Rondo would be an improvment on defense and would also make scoring easier for the guys around him.

Westbrook and Harden would both bring the same thing Rose brings.

Not bashing Rose, just dont get the hype.
You should have been on these boards when Rondo was being compared to Rose and maybe you were?

I guess it was debatable early 2009, but the head to head was a total destruction on Rose's behalf. He didn't just totally outplayed him it was humiliation. In the last two playoff games, in probably the best playoff series ever, Rose held Rondo to .243 shooting percentage while Rose shot .490 and was making game winners. 23ppg vs 8ppg. While assist was 15pg to 5 Rose was the primary scorer on that team which wasn't like the Thibes team later on.

So this board was hyped with haters like you saying Rondo's better... Rondo had another game where he shot .200 percent (2 for 10). In the same game Rose shot .682 for 39 points to Rondo's 4 points and had more assist than him. Twice Rondo was in front of Rose and somehow Rose was dunking with-in two seconds without a pick or anything. Not that H2H's are a great indicator, but they make you think twice when one looks like a mentor. After 2011 hits Boston like Rondo to Rose never really plays on the same level.

There was a Rose MVP post last week and this thread is just an extension of the hate there.

[Money 23]

Rose had nothing to do with the defense and rebounding yet got all of the praise for carrying the mediocre offense with his 8-23 shooting games.
The ignorance in this thread is shocking.

In his 2011 MVP season, Rose shot 45% from the field, basically Kobe's career percentage from the floor. He also shot over 30% from 3, which is pretty good and was a stark improvement in his game.

He also dished out 8 assists a game to go with his 25 ppg average. He had great feel for the game, and single handedly took over games when the Bulls were down, even in bad shooting nights, and snatched wins for them. So to say the Bulls success was exclusively due to defense is absolutely wrong. Rose played a HUGE role on that team.

He was a deserving MVP in 2011. Context destroyed the arguments for Dwight, LeBron, and Wade. You sound absolutely foolish.

The Bulls are successful in the regular season because they have a great coach who gets them to play hard, every night. They play defense and rebound, every night. But with Rose as the lone star who can create for himself and others consistently ... he's the difference between first round exit and ECF competition.

With more legit star help to distract defenses, I shutter to think about what he could do with more ISO coverages. The only reason Miami slowed him down was cause they zoned up on drives, and had LeBron try and stay in front of him and contest any jumpers. They knew no one else could take over for the Bulls.

[Lebron23]

Bulls are a great regular season team, but in the playoffs Rose needs a much better 2nd scoring option. No disrespect to Noah and Deng.

[BuffaloBill]

Bulls are a great regular season team, but in the playoffs Rose needs a much better 2nd scoring option. No disrespect to Noah and Deng.


Boozer? :biggums:


And the Bulls are a good playoff team too. They could beat any team in the East, with the exception of the Heat.

[Money 23]

Boozer?
Neither is Boozer. Or Belenelli or Hinrich. They don't have a LEGIT #2 guy.

[Lebron23]

Boozer? :biggums:

I forget about him. Boozer has struggled making shots against tall PF's in the playoffs.

[BuffaloBill]

Neither is Boozer. Or Belenelli or Hinrich. They don't have a LEGIT #2 guy.



They don't need one. What player is there that could make the Bulls that much better?

[Money 23]

They don't need one. What player is there that could make the Bulls that much better?
No, they absolutely need one. The stacked rosters of the Knicks, and especially Miami have proven this.

Hell, old ass Ray Allen could walk on the Bulls right now and probably be their 2nd best player, and he's Miami's 4th best player.

I think the Bulls with Rose would even have a hard time with the Knicks. They have a rim defender now with Chandler, and they can have Iman Shumpert just get in Rose's square all game and force him into tough decisions.

The Bulls need another legit star player if they are seriously considering doing anything competitively. People get pumped all the time w/ their regular season record thinking they're something they're not. It's just a product of Thibs being a great coach and pushing a group of pros to play hard every night. And he develops great defensive schemes.

In the playoffs, these more talented teams have a higher gear. It's pretty obvious the Heat have been coasting. They always put it into another gear come playoffs. The Bulls bust their nut in the regular season. Without more talent, there isn't another gear to match Miami.

As for who they can get? I honestly don't really know at this point. Boozer, Deng, and Noah aren't getting it done that's for sure. Those guys are GREAT role players. 3rd, 4th, and 5th options on a championship caliber team.

[Whoah10115]

There was a Rose MVP post last week and this thread is just an extension of the hate there.



Absolutely not, but your post is just an extension of your love for Derrick Rose. Rose has had one year where he was better than Rondo, and he wasn't even better in the playoffs that year.


I'd respect anyone who thinks Rose would be the best PG, if healthy. But all things considered, there's no reason to rank him ahead of Rajon Rondo.

[Hank]

No, they absolutely need one. The stacked rosters of the Knicks, and especially Miami have proven this.

Hell, old ass Ray Allen could walk on the Bulls right now and probably be their 2nd best player, and he's Miami's 4th best player.

I think the Bulls with Rose would even have a hard time with the Knicks. They have a rim defender now with Chandler, and they can have Iman Shumpert just get in Rose's square all game and force him into tough decisions.

The Bulls need another legit star player if they are seriously considering doing anything competitively. People get pumped all the time w/ their regular season record thinking they're something they're not. It's just a product of Thibs being a great coach and pushing a group of pros to play hard every night. And he develops great defensive schemes.

In the playoffs, these more talented teams have a higher gear. It's pretty obvious the Heat have been coasting. They always put it into another gear come playoffs. The Bulls bust their nut in the regular season. Without more talent, there isn't another gear to match Miami.

As for who they can get? I honestly don't really know at this point. Boozer, Deng, and Noah aren't getting it done that's for sure. Those guys are GREAT role players. 3rd, 4th, and 5th options on a championship caliber team.

That's basically it. As I've been saying for years, Thibs and the Bulls are stupid for blowing their wad every night in the regular season. They give 110% energy in the regular season and have nothing left to show for it in the playoffs. We saw it last year how they were spent and got handled in the playoffs when the opposing team turns up their energy to match them, and the year before Indiana should have beat them (with just a little more experience the young 8th seed Pacers beat the Bulls in that series).

The Heat are very smart for pacing themselves during the regular season and turning it up 2 gears in the postseason, when it counts. The Heat can turn that suffocating defense on anytime they want to. There is absolutely no reason to run it 100% of the time in the regular season just to wear themselves out. That's stupid thinking and poor strategy, the season is very long, it's a marathon. We'll leave those silly ideas for the bullshit bulls so they can get pumped and beaten again when it counts.

Postseason success >>>>>>>>>>> Regular season success

[Whoah10115]

Neither is Boozer. Or Belenelli or Hinrich. They don't have a LEGIT #2 guy.



Boozer is most certainly a legit #2 scorer. The Bulls have a terrific team. Boozer, playing like he's playing now, is a legitimate all-star player (not that he should make the team). Deng is a legitimate all-star player. Noah is a legitimate all-star player. Even as borderline ones or guys who shouldn't make it with regularity, they are all-star caliber players. And that's 3 of them.


Boozer is not a fit for this team if Rose is the PG and Rip Hamilton is the SG. Unless, of course, Deng suddenly became a point forward. But if the backcourt is Hinrich and Rose (not the way it was in Rose's first two seasons), then Boozer should probably be able to play the way he's playing now. Noah has to keep it up tho and they can't just put the ball in Rose's hands. Going forward, I don't even see the need to get rid of Boozer. Not the way he's been playing.

[Big Cheese]

How is he Hyped? Hes an exciting player. People enjoy watching him, but thats as far as it goes. What are people saying thats hyping him? Is he being compared to Magic Johnson? Or being called better Isiah Thomas? He deserved the MVP in 2011. The Heat underachieved, and the Magic did their usual 50 wins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOeUmStERvI :lol

[Pointguard]

being 1st seed is overrated, as we found out last 2 years. its time for the bulls to step up in the playoffs now. #1 seed is nice of course, but it doesnt mean anything if miami exposes you again (with your full roster).


Rose was 22 years old at the time... who have you seen carry a team to conference finals at that age outside of Lebron? It hardly ever works that way and they got beat by a super team, with a guy that seems destined for a top 5 GOAT ranking. And he was paired with the best SG, a top three player at the time both in their prime. Put things in context otherwise you just talking.

Miami exposed the fact that Chicago didn't have a step up player to help Rose out, which is ok because that was their first year contending and their core was basically very young. Miami is a super talented team. Rose is coming off of major surgery. I don't know how much can be expected of them this year.


Put Westbrook on this team and they win 70+ many times and would break their own record multiple times. Westbrook is basically a rich mans DRose with unlimited stamina/durability/passion. DRose is in one of the best positions in NBA history and the guy can't stay healthy to save his life. Shame.

Nobody controls their ACL, Westbrook, tho greatly durable can have his blown out next week. Rose didn't have any major problems his first three years so stop trying to act like it was some major problem. Westbrook is very good but mentally in 2011 he wasn't ready to lead a team, much less one going thru transition, injuries and a new system.

Westbrook was too young, too unsteady, too turnover prone, too erratic, had no control of the game, was sloppy, only drove hard to the basket with no other developed skill. Rose lead all guards in points, rebounds and assist together (First time Kobe and Wade gave up the category in a long time), was third in blocks among guards, first in 4th quarter comebacks, absolutely controlled pace, was one of the best leaders in the league, dominated all of his competition at his position that year except Westbrook whom was taken off guarding Rose. Chicago didn't lose to an elite team in the last four months of the season.

Westbrook is improving and is in a great position but I doubt that he will ever do all of Rose did that year.

[GreatGreg]

We saw it last year how they were spent and got handled in the playoffs when the opposing team turns up their energy to match them, and the year before Indiana should have beat them (with just a little more experience the young 8th seed Pacers beat the Bulls in that series).

Yes, I'm sure that the loss of Rose and Noah and an injured Deng had nothing to do with their playoff loss last year. It was all the opposing team's "energy" and "determination". :facepalm

And Indiana should've beat them if they were more experienced? Are you kidding me? Ok, then I get to say that the Celtics would've handled the Heat in the ECF last season if they were a little bit younger. :rolleyes:

[Glide2keva]

people have been saying the Bulls would at least be okay without rose since well before he even won the MVP. and if they didn't think so the Bulls playing pretty well in the many games he missed last year would do it.

people have been making these such and such don't really need such and such topics forever when a star gets hurt.

I remember people clowning Webber in 04 when they had a great record being led by peja.

MVP level players have been getting hurt and having teams carry on forever.

the Bulls being above average without rose means no more than the Bulls being above average without Jordan or the 76ers winning 55 games after wilt left. or the Knicks making the finals without Ewing. The King's being great without Webber. the Knicks barely missing a beat when Willis reed fell apart before the second ring.

is just fuel for haters which no one will care about looking back on the era.

it doesn't matter if a team can win a good number of games without its best player. it comes down to whether or not a team can be taken serious.

it isn't hard to build a respectable team. Taking the team from respectable to legitimate is what being great is all about.

history doesn't remember 51 wins and losing to the pacers.
Read and learn.

[Glide2keva]

Also, obvious bait thread is obvious.

[knickswin]

I think Rose is very good but overrated. part of it is that he's a hero in chicago. there probably isn't an athlete in the country who's as loved by his city as derrick rose.

he's crazy talented as a penetrator, one of the best players in the league at getting into the paint. gets to the free throw line at a great rate for a point guard.

but ... he is not the smartest fella in the world and he's not the smartest player in the world either ... sometimes a poor decision maker who has a habit of passing in the air (hence, high turnover rate) ... not a high-impact defender (doesn't get steals or apply much ball pressure). not a great shooter but shoots a lot of threes anyway.

like, i consider "prime" wade as a notch above rose. wade was much, much craftier, a versatile defender, i think better off the pick and roll.

i think chicago "needs" derrick rose because they need a good player, but I think there are also other players who could replace rose on that team ... westbrook, deron williams, and tony parker I think could slide into the point guard slot for them in his place.

[Clocian-IGN]

Also, obvious bait thread is obvious.

yup

[Pointguard]

Absolutely not, but your post is just an extension of your love for Derrick Rose. Rose has had one year where he was better than Rondo, and he wasn't even better in the playoffs that year.

LOL, so holding a player down to 24% in the final two games, while carrying an inferior inexperienced team against a championship team to a seven game series and you saying Rondo outplayed him. Nobody in their right mind is going to say Rondo was close to Rose that year. Rose completely dominated him on top of that. Yes, at the level it wasn't considered close. Rose, when guarding him holds him down to some incredible embarrassing numbers - I mentioned three games in which he shot like 21% and averaged 6ppg in those games. And on offense Rondo has real big problems with containing Rose. Rose has three games where he shot like 60% and averaged 38ppg in those games. And this is from a sample size of less than 20 games and Rondo having a couple more years of experience.

[Clifton]

Most of the top players today are replaceable kinds of players.

It's not like Shaq, where you have Shaq, and that's your frontcourt. And it's not like Nash's Suns, where you have Nash and a bunch of guys who shoot and dunk. These two teams didn't have less-good versions of their best players to step in and make the team work. Their teams were built around and totally dependent on their stars.

The top teams today aren't built that way. If Lebron goes out, Wade steps up as the poor man's Lebron. If Durant goes out, Westbrook and Martin can come in and score 25 each. If Paul goes out, well, you still have the most stacked team in the league, and mostly what Paul did was pass to those guys anyway.

So Derrick Rose? You got a team with top notch defense and good shooting and passing. It's led by a very good scoring point guard. How hard is it to find an "okay" scoring point guard to at least hold the team together?

It doesn't mean they're competitive without him. Jordan can retire and the Bulls were still very good, because they had Pippen. But there was no title without Jordan. Great players are still great players, and are necessary.

[Whoah10115]

LOL, so holding a player down to 24% in the final two games, while carrying an inferior inexperienced team against a championship team to a seven game series and you saying Rondo outplayed him. Nobody in their right mind is going to say Rondo was close to Rose that year. Rose completely dominated him on top of that. Yes, at the level it wasn't considered close. Rose, when guarding him holds him down to some incredible embarrassing numbers - I mentioned three games in which he shot like 21% and averaged 6ppg in those games. And on offense Rondo has real big problems with containing Rose. Rose has three games where he shot like 60% and averaged 38ppg in those games. And this is from a sample size of less than 20 games and Rondo having a couple more years of experience.



Don't take one thing I say and say a bunch of bullshit. I never said that. And seriously, don't try and quote me and say that I did. I said that Rondo was better in the playoffs. And the point of my comment was that that WAS the only season where Rose has played better than Rondo. So, I'm most certainly understanding that Rose was better than Rondo that season.


In fact, Rose had a better regular season that year than Rondo has ever had (easy, as that was Rondo's best season).


Sometimes, you can't take the way someone plays in the playoffs as the absolute example of who is the better player. But Rondo does it every year. Look at the way he played against the Bulls in 08/09, averaging a monstrous triple-double and playing crazy defense, along with the way he played in the series that as lost to Orlando, and the way he played throughout the 2010 playoffs, and the way he played last year.


Rose has one season. If you want to see that one season as clear proof that Rose has more than Rondo, that's fine. I respect that. But it's hard to justify calling Rose the better player on the basis of that one season. It's the truth.

[Money 23]

I think Rose is very good but overrated. part of it is that he's a hero in chicago. there probably isn't an athlete in the country who's as loved by his city as derrick rose.
This is all true, but I wouldn't consider Rose overrated. He DOMINATED in 2011 and even parts of 2012 when healthy, especially against elite contemporaries at his position in mono y mono matchups, he turned up the juice and destroyed the likes of: CP3, Deron, Rondo, Tony Parker, etc. Rose really gets up for the big opponents. He even plays defense on an elite level v.s. those guys. He just slacks off and gets bored with average players, that's why Teague had so many good games v.s. him in the 2011 playoffs.

But when he's motivated, Rose actually is quite the defender. And his leaping ability has shown him to make GAME SAVING blocks on straight up jumpers. The guy is only 6 feet tall, and I've seen him block people's jumpers straight up who are 3 - 4 inches taller.

There is a pic I had of the Christmas Day game last year where Rose is about to get his finger tips on a Kobe jump shot, straight up. And you can see the dramatic difference in leap. All this and Rose really isn't someone built like Rondo w/ long arms and big hands. He actually has pretty stubby arms for a bball player. Pretty impressive the things he does athletically. Not to mention, Rose is flat out CLUTCH.

I don't think he's a smart guy by any means, but for the most part he makes solid basketball plays. And I consider him to be a better player than all the guys like: Deron, Westbrook, Tony Parker ... all with the exceptions of CP3 and Rondo because they bring a versatility and dominance to the game without having to be scorers.

You make it sound like Rose bball IQ is worse than Westbrook. Rose is much more coachable, better attitude, and a way better feel for the game. When to shoot, when to pass, and when to take over down the stretch. Westbrook makes bone head plays out of emotion on the regular. That's why Westbrook is such a crappy PG.

[Pointguard]

Don't take one thing I say and say a bunch of bullshit. I never said that. And seriously, don't try and quote me and say that I did. I said that Rondo was better in the playoffs. And the point of my comment was that that WAS the only season where Rose has played better than Rondo. So, I'm most certainly understanding that Rose was better than Rondo that season.

Ohh ok, so he was better until he ran into Rose and Rose put the "D" on him crunch time in the playoffs. Is that better? Now, we're both happy???



Sometimes, you can't take the way someone plays in the playoffs as the absolute example of who is the better player. But Rondo does it every year. Look at the way he played against the Bulls in 08/09, averaging a monstrous triple-double and playing crazy defense, along with the way he played in the series that as lost to Orlando, and the way he played throughout the 2010 playoffs, and the way he played last year.
I think Rondo's a great player - no problem there. Rose obviously was dominating Rondo in his second year, he probably wasn't really better than Rondo just yet but he was a good jump shot away. Rose came back with a jump shot and also had the game's best tear drop along with being a premier penetrator in his MVP campaign. The year after the MVP he showed he improved his passing capabilities and didn't loose what he progressed with the year before. So unless Rondo really improved he can't be said to be better.


Rose has one season. If you want to see that one season as clear proof that Rose has more than Rondo, that's fine. I respect that. But it's hard to justify calling Rose the better player on the basis of that one season. It's the truth.
If Rose's game regressed the next year you have a point, but it didn't. It improved a bit but he was playing hurt. Rose's best quality is that he improves in some way every year he's in the league. That's what's so respected about him. His work ethic is top notch and you can see where he improved his game year by year.

[Whoah10115]

Ohh ok, so he was better until he ran into Rose and Rose put the "D" on him crunch time in the playoffs. Is that better? Now, we're both happy???



WTF are you talking about, I'm literally agreeing with you that Rose was better and you try to condescend to my agreement as if I'm arguing otherwise? Read one more time. Rose was better than Rondo that season. So you have no need to try and sharpshoot something I did not say.


Also, WTF are you talking about? When did Rose put the clamps on Rondo in the playoffs? They didn't meet in the playoffs.


They met in the playoffs when Rose was a rookie. Rose was super impressive. Rondo had the best series anyone had in the playoffs that year. So he most certainly didn't dominate Rondo. Rose outscored Rondo by 0.3 PPG. Rondo did everything better.



I think Rondo's a great player - no problem there. Rose obviously was dominating Rondo in his second year, he probably wasn't really better than Rondo just yet but he was a good jump shot away. Rose came back with a jump shot and also had the game's best tear drop along with being a premier penetrator in his MVP campaign. The year after the MVP he showed he improved his passing capabilities and didn't loose what he progressed with the year before. So unless Rondo really improved he can't be said to be better.

If Rose's game regressed the next year you have a point, but it didn't. It improved a bit but he was playing hurt. Rose's best quality is that he improves in some way every year he's in the league. That's what's so respected about him. His work ethic is top notch and you can see where he improved his game year by year.



I agree on Rose's best quality. But I still don't get what you're saying.


Rondo's game is about the plays he makes on defense, helping, playing the passing lanes, rebounding, making high-impact plays on offense, making plays for others. Rose doesn't dominate him. What you can say is that he's been the better player, head-to-head, if you think that. But Rondo doesn't get dominated. Rose doesn't bother him on defense, he doesn't force turnovers.


The career head-to-head (in the regular season) is 6-6. It was 2-1 in Rose's rookie season and 4-5 since. 2-2 in Rose's second season. 2-2 in Rose's MVP year. 1-0 last year, in Rose's favor.


Rose scores 10 more a game than Rondo.


Rondo more than doubles his assists, outrebounds him, and has 8 times as many steals.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Seriously? Rose is a GREAT player and they would definitely be 1st seed with him.

People forget too quickly.

[Clocian-IGN]

Seriously? Rose is a GREAT player and they would definitely be 1st seed with him.

People forget too quickly.

yup

[BlueandGold]

Chicago has always had some really legit pieces, Noah is one of the best C in the game, in an area which matters too come playoff time which is defense and hustle. Boozer is a legit pick and roll C who can shoot the j. Deng is a legit 2, 3 and small 4 defender (aka Lebron/Kobe/Melo) and you have a great defensive coach in Thibs to put it all together. Add in Rose and you have a perennial powerhouse once healthy.

[nnn123]

Not going to read the entire thread, but...


How can someone possibly make a thread like this after seeing what went down in the playoffs last year? Lose to the 8th seed Sixers w/o Rose? Seriously?

SMH @ people on these boards constantly overrating regular season records like they mean a damn thing

[FKAri]

Maybe Rose wasn't among the great MVP award winners but he is/was a great player. He'd be top 5 right now if he had never gotten hurt.

[nathanjizzle]

i just realized the misspelling of "chicago" wasnt actually a typo, but the OP actually thinking its pronounced "chi-ga-co"

[Clocian-IGN]

bump. check out tonights game