Where would PEAK Kobe rank today?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Assuming everyone thinks 2006-2008 is his peak..

-How many more wins would LA have if ANY?
-How much better was he, in his peak, offensively?
-Is he a better scorer than Durant?
-Is he even a better PLAYER than Lebron and/or Durant?

2006-2008 Highlights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpT7xzvYADw)
65 vs Blazers 2006-07 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpWAyV-S7P0)
62 in 3 quarters vs Mavs 2005-06 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJNoFs3G91A)
81 vs Raptors 2005-06 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsN3V56J478)
Kobe vs Bruce Bowen 2005-06 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvh9kEwekY8)

[TheMarkMadsen]

This years lakers would be more energized, better defensively an would never have a problem getting a bucket.

Kobe was scoring at will that season, his ability to create easy transition baskets would benefit the rest of his old teammates greatly. The guy could score 40 pts on 22 shots with good efficiency with the defense being completely focused on him night in night out.

Imagine Kobe in 06 where his teammates are good enough to the point where the defensive cant double and triple Kobe all game?

[swag2011]

1a/1b with lebron imo. People need to go back and watch his series against spurs snd kings during 3 peat. Kobe was not this one dimensional player he has seemed to turn into these last 2 or 3 years. He could playmake, score, defend and all that stuff.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

As far as players, he would be right at the top with LeBron and Durant.

Would the Lakers be doing better? It's hard to say because even now most people agree that the result of the Lakers' losses is more of a coaching/team defensive issue than just on any one person. Even as well as Kobe played defense in 2008, I don't think he could single handedly make the Lakers a good defensive team since his coach doesn't give a shit about it.

[SilkkTheShocker]

1. LeBron



2A. Kobe
2B. Durant

[blablabla]

1a 1b with bron

[konex]

LeBron is a better athlete and KD is a better shooter but peak Kobe was just more impressive skillwise and he didn't need tons of fts every night.

Dude was dropping 40 every other night with straight up bums in the starting lineup and the whole defense locked in on him

[Nash]

LeBron is a better athlete and KD is a better shooter but peak Kobe was just more impressive skillwise and he didn't need tons of fts every night.

Dude was dropping 40 every other night with straight up bums in the starting lineup and the whole defense locked in on him
Ahead of Durant, behind Lebron.

[DatAsh]

-How many more wins would LA have if ANY?
Hard to say really. They'd be better defensively as his 2008 self could help to mitigate some of their perimeter defensive woes. They'd probably have a few more wins, but current Kobe has been playing great and isn't really responsible for their poor record at this point.

-How much better was he, in his peak, offensively?
Depends on how you look at it really. He's arguably as good as he's ever been offensively this season, or at least close to it, but he's sacrificing defense to play at that level. Peak Kobe could give you current Kobe offense and still have the energy to be a top perimeter defender.

-Is he a better scorer than Durant?
I'll probably get backlash for saying this, but to me, current Durant is the best scorer I've seen since Jordan. His scoring doesn't break down a defense the way a peak Kobe's did, but he's a better off ball player and spot up shooter, and that results in him being quite a bit more efficient than peak Kobe was.

-Is he even a better PLAYER than Lebron and/or Durant?
I think he'd be somewhere in between, and closer to Lebron than Durant. Against Lebron, he's a better scorer, but Lebron is the better rebounder, passer, and defender. With Durant I see it as somewhat opposite; Kobe's the better passer and defender, and Durant is the better scorer - though not by much at all.

[tmacattack33]

Kobe right now is a better jump shooter and distance than he ever was, and his bball IQ is higher. He is also a better passer than he was in 2006-2008.

He's slowed down of course and was quicker and more explosive in 2006-2008.


I'd agree with the dude a few posts above:

1. Lebron

2a. Kobe 2b. Durant


Durant is playing at an amazing level too right now with historically great offense.

[DatAsh]

Kobe was not this one dimensional player he has seemed to turn into these last 2 or 3 years. He could playmake, score, defend and all that stuff.

I wouldn't even call current Kobe one dimensional. He doesn't defend like he used to, but he can still scorer and play-make with the best of them.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'd say LA would at least be at .500, but the problems with this team are not primarily due to Kobe. They've been due to injuries, a lack of chemistry, Howard and Gasol performing below expectations(especially Gasol who has been a virtual non-factor) and bad coaching. I think '08 Kobe might work pretty well because he did his best job as a playmaker and all around player while still easily averaging 28-30 per game within the flow of the offense. Kobe doesn't enough credit for how much better he made his teammates that year. And not only was his individual defense very good that year, but he was a leader at that end. Wouldn't solve all of their problems, but I see Howard and or Gasol being a little more involved, and everyone more engaged defensively.

How much better was he at his peak offensively than he is now? Well by 2006-2008, he had essentially the same skills, but with much more athleticism and stamina. Kobe's stamina has been impressive, but I don't trust him as much to hold up for the entire year carrying this load due to age, injuries and mileage. Kobe in '06 on the otherhand played 41 mpg and averaged 35 ppg taking 27 FGA and 10 FTA. That's just remarkable.

Tough to compare him and Durant as scorers. Kobe is the better volume scorer, but Durant is more consistent. I'm hesitant to say we've seen anyone who has been a better scorer than Kobe since Jordan.

He'd be comparable to Lebron and Durant. I might put him between the 2, but he'd be right up there. You'd be able to make the case that he's the best in the league.

[Rysio]

easily the best as he is now.

[fpliii]

I think there's a case for an earlier period of time (some set of seasons from 01-05) being his prime, depending on how much you value defense.

[Whoah10115]

I think he'd be the best player. I think 2002/03 Kobe played better and was just about as good in talent. I think either of those guys is the best player in the league.


It'd be interesting to see that Kobe on a team with this much quality, when he is at his absolute best. I wonder if he takes a lot of games off tho. He was doing that even in 2008/09, on a team that won 65 games in the West.


Kobe is most certainly a better player than Kevin Durant. By a lot. As far as scoring, he's the best scorer since Jordan. Durant, I would agree, is much more consistent. Of the true elite of the elite scorers I've seen, he has the best jumpshot. His jumpshot is ridiculous. And he's such a smart off-the ball player...a SG who stands near 6'11.

But Kobe has a higher volume and a higher impact. He might have cold games, like the Barry Sanders of scorers. But his impact was too good. I prefer the way he played in 2003, tho I find it hard to argue that he wasn't more talented after.


His jumpshot is not better than it's ever been. His IQ is higher but he's always going out of his way to prove himself, so it doesn't show. And his handles are nowhere near as good as they used to be. That's the one skill that's really deteriorated.

And lastly, Kobe was an incredible athlete. Lebron is more forceful, but he's not very far ahead. The body is where Lebron really wins. But Kobe is a smarter player and more skilled. And when he's locked in there isn't anyone as good as he is. The problem with him is that, despite that Black Mamba mentality, he is not always locked in and he can be petulant.

[NumberSix]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. CP3
4. Durant

[ShaqAttack3234]

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. CP3
4. Durant

How is CP3 better than Durant?

[brownmamba00]

kobe
lebron
durant

[red1]

Current lebron is better but kobe is definitely on that level. Lbj kobe and kd would all be close

[NumberSix]

How is CP3 better than Durant?
Durant is obviously a better individual player than CP3 is, but the NBA is a 5 man game. CP3 is a more valuable part of a 5 man squad than KD is.

If I could chose between the two, I would choose CP3. IMO, KD is slightly overrated because of his scoring ability. CP3 is a better player than KD is in the context of a 5 man team game.

[Ikill]

pretty much tied with Lebron you could make a case that he's better than Lebron

[STATUTORY]

Durant is obviously a better individual player than CP3 is, but the NBA is a 5 man game. CP3 is a more valuable part of a 5 man squad than KD is.

If I could chose between the two, I would choose CP3. IMO, KD is slightly overrated because of his scoring ability. CP3 is a better player than KD is in the context of a 5 man team game.

:rolleyes: CP3 is mascot for a stacked squad. his team be killin contenders with him in suit. he's not more valuable to a team he's just fortunate to be on a team with more valuable pieces around him

[asdf1990]

pretty much tied with Lebron you could make a case that he's better than Lebron

care to make that case? cuz this version of lebron> any version of kobe and its not close

[NumberSix]

:rolleyes: CP3 is mascot for a stacked squad. his team be killin contenders with him in suit. he's not more valuable to a team he's just fortunate to be on a team with more valuable pieces around him
I'm not basing CP3's value solely on this season's Clippers record.

[NumberSix]

care to make that case? cuz this version of lebron> any version of kobe and its not close
That's debatable.

IMO, Kobe's peak isn't the same opinion most on ISH hold. I don't think 06 was his peak. IMO, his last season or 2 with Shaq was his peak as a player.

[STATUTORY]

I'm not basing CP3's value solely on this season's Clippers record.
be interested in hearing your reasons then, cause I think Durant is more capable of carrying a team especially in the playoffs

[Whoah10115]

I think Paul is a better player. His defense is much better and it's still funny when people fail to appreciate how good an on-ball defender he is. He's playing defense this year.


He's up there with Nash (as Kidd is obviously not the same) as the best passer in the game, one of the truly great playmakers. After Nash, there isn't anyone who does a better job of making players better (tho Marc is up there). He's a legit 20 PPG scorer, able to curtail that to suit his team, as he's a true PG. He sometimes does too much on his own. His best quality this year is that he's not trying to do everything, as his team is stacked. Durant is the MVP. Durant even deserves to be higher on the list than Paul does, as Durant has played better for a more sustained period. And he's done it in the playoffs. In fact, I still have a hard time ranking Nash and Paul (kinda easy right now), as I don't think Nash (outside of this moment) is really any different than the guy who won the MVP's, and I don't know that Paul has hit that peak yet.


But if I'm talking in a vacuum...if I'm going into a series right now and the series comes down to the difference between Chris Paul and Kevin Durant, I'm taking Paul's team, because I'm taking Paul. There isn't a guy in the West I'd take over him. Dwight Howard, when healthy, will be the one fighting him, but that's not this year. Tho Kobe makes me think sometimes...but Chris Paul is probably the best player -all things being equal- in the Western Conference.

[Whoah10115]

care to make that case? cuz this version of lebron> any version of kobe and its not close


And Lebron stans make fun of Kobe stans. Sad.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Hes washed up, no longer top 10 in current NBA, Dwight Howard is the best player on LA Lakers.

[tmacattack33]

That's debatable.

IMO, Kobe's peak isn't the same opinion most on ISH hold. I don't think 06 was his peak. IMO, his last season or 2 with Shaq was his peak as a player.


If that's the player you are choosing, then he has a very low bball IQ as proven from his Finals where he shot LA out of a ring against the Spurs in 2003 and Detroit in 2004 with his super quick Nick Young trigger.

[NumberSix]

I think Paul is a better player. His defense is much better and it's still funny when people fail to appreciate how good an on-ball defender he is. He's playing defense this year.


He's up there with Nash (as Kidd is obviously not the same) as the best passer in the game, one of the truly great playmakers. After Nash, there isn't anyone who does a better job of making players better (tho Marc is up there). He's a legit 20 PPG scorer, able to curtail that to suit his team, as he's a true PG. He sometimes does too much on his own. His best quality this year is that he's not trying to do everything, as his team is stacked. Durant is the MVP. Durant even deserves to be higher on the list than Paul does, as Durant has played better for a more sustained period. And he's done it in the playoffs. In fact, I still have a hard time ranking Nash and Paul (kinda easy right now), as I don't think Nash (outside of this moment) is really any different than the guy who won the MVP's, and I don't know that Paul has hit that peak yet.


But if I'm talking in a vacuum...if I'm going into a series right now and the series comes down to the difference between Chris Paul and Kevin Durant, I'm taking Paul's team, because I'm taking Paul. There isn't a guy in the West I'd take over him. Dwight Howard, when healthy, will be the one fighting him, but that's not this year. Tho Kobe makes me think sometimes...but Chris Paul is probably the best player -all things being equal- in the Western Conference.
I actually agree with almost every word of this.

[Micku]

Erm...I don't know. It depends on the situation. I don't really think that peak Kobe would score as much as if he have this current team. He'll have more stamina and probably could play better defense tho. And many ppl who have different views on which season is peak Kobe. And peak Kobe wasn't really the efficient scorer that current Kobe is now, tho his percentage is going to go down after today. He was actually shooting a career high at the rim this year, so super old Kobe is a more efficient finisher than a more athletic peak Kobe.

While I do think LeBron would still be consider the best, Durant and Kobe would fight for 2nd place. It depends on what they'll do in the playoffs that will define them I guess. Although, seeing how Durant and LBJ are playing, I think ppl would bash Kobe a bit more because the lack of efficiency and shot selection.

And thing with CP3. Do you think he would have more impact of a team than Durant? I do think the comparison of CP3 and Durant is hard to compare.

[Whoah10115]

Erm...I don't know. It depends on the situation. I don't really think that peak Kobe would score as much as if he have this current team. He'll have more stamina and probably could play better defense tho. And many ppl who have different views on which season is peak Kobe. And peak Kobe wasn't really the efficient scorer that current Kobe is now, tho his percentage is going to go down after today. He was actually shooting a career high at the rim this year, so super old Kobe is more efficient finisher than a more athletic peak Kobe.

While I do think LeBron would still be consider the best, Durant and Kobe would fight for 2nd place. It depends on what they'll do in the playoffs that will define them I guess. Although, seeing how Durant and LBJ are playing, I think ppl would bash Kobe a bit more because the lack of efficiency and shot selection.

And thing with CP3. Do you think he would have more impact of a team than Durant? I do think the comparison of CP3 and Durant is hard to compare.



Well one thing is that Durant would not compete with Kobe Bryant. That's huge in favor of Bryant. Honestly, I can't consider any kind of argument for Durant. I said in another thread how Charles Barkley would easily be the 2nd best player in the NBA today and would fight with Lebron. And I think Kobe was better than Barkley. But they're both most certainly better than Durant.



My argument for Paul is what I wrote. And yes, I believe that. Part of his MVP campaign is that every single time his team needs him to take over, he does and they win. It's literally clockwork, to the point that I'm hardly impressed by it. He's definitely not the MVP, but there's no guy in the conference that I'd take ahead of him to win a game. That's the very definition of better.

[Whoah10115]

If that's the player you are choosing, then he has a very low bball IQ as proven from his Finals where he shot LA out of a ring against the Spurs in 2003 and Detroit in 2004 with his super quick Nick Young trigger.



The 2003 thing is just wrong. The team was awful. He hardly shot them out of it.


He did a little in 2004, tho Payton played like pure garbage and Malone played 1 game. The rest of the team is empty. Low IQ is just very off the mark.

[28renyoy]

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kobe


Kobe has never had a season at the level of current LeBron or Durant. They're having 2 of the greatest seasons of all time.

[arifgokcen]

Kobe at his peak good question.I would say he would be right behind lebron and fighting with durant for #2 spot.Skillwise he is superior to lebron but lebron just has an amazing body and talent that we have never seen in a basketball player.
That said as an offensive player he has never been a efficient scorer compared to all other great scorers.Thats always been a knock on his resume.So a lot of people would probably consider him right behind durant.

[TheMarkMadsen]

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kobe


Kobe has never had a season at the level of current LeBron or Durant. They're having 2 of the greatest seasons of all time.


:rolleyes:

[28renyoy]

:rolleyes:

LeBron 13 26.3/8.1/7.0 61.9 TS% 30.2 PER .286 WSp48 56-26~ record
Durant 13 29.3/7.5/4.3 65.3 TS% 29.1 PER .304 WSp48 66-16~ record
Kobe's MVP season 28.3/6.5/5.4 57.6 TS% 24.2 PER .208 WSp48 57-25 record

[Micku]

Well one thing is that Durant would not compete with Kobe Bryant. That's huge in favor of Bryant. Honestly, I can't consider any kind of argument for Durant. I said in another thread how Charles Barkley would easily be the 2nd best player in the NBA today and would fight with Lebron. And I think Kobe was better than Barkley. But they're both most certainly better than Durant.

My argument for Paul is what I wrote. And yes, I believe that. Part of his MVP campaign is that every single time his team needs him to take over, he does and they win. It's literally clockwork, to the point that I'm hardly impressed by it. He's definitely not the MVP, but there's no guy in the conference that I'd take ahead of him to win a game. That's the very definition of better.


I don't know about that. I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I don't really see that peak Kobe would be clearly above Durant, mainly because of his scoring efficiency, but it depends on the situation imo. I would imagine ppl that see LBJ and Durant this year, would criticize Kobe a little more on his efficiency in his peak. But Kobe playmaking and defense would be better depending on which season you use. But I cannot really see peak Kobe being clearly above Durant this year.

I think it's a interesting take on CP3 tho.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Durant is obviously a better individual player than CP3 is, but the NBA is a 5 man game. CP3 is a more valuable part of a 5 man squad than KD is.

If I could chose between the two, I would choose CP3. IMO, KD is slightly overrated because of his scoring ability. CP3 is a better player than KD is in the context of a 5 man team game.

I disagree, I think Durant does more for his team. CP3 has been great, but the Clippers are the most stacked team in the NBA. Durant's scoring has been incredibly consistent and effortless, his defense and rebounding have improved, and he's become a good playmaker. He's such a good scorer that being a solid all around player in addition to that puts him in the discussion for best in the game. I have CP3 4th or 5th along with Kobe and behind Lebron, Durant and Melo this year.


The 2003 thing is just wrong. The team was awful. He hardly shot them out of it.

The team wasn't awful, they were similar to the Lakers 3peat teams. Role players were a little older, but that was one of the years Fisher shot the ball well. Horry was still Horry, but had that bad shooting slump when he went 0/18 in the Spurs series. The biggest difference was SF. Rick Fox got injured leaving Devean George as the starting SF, and he eventually got injured. But those Laker teams never had above average starters at more than 2 positions anyway.

That Laker team started off terribly, but finished 31-9, and a lot of people thought they had a very good chance at a 4peat once the playoffs came.


LeBron 13 26.3/8.1/7.0 61.9 TS% 30.2 PER .286 WSp48 56-26~ record
Durant 13 29.3/7.5/4.3 65.3 TS% 29.1 PER .304 WSp48 66-16~ record
Kobe's MVP season 28.3/6.5/5.4 57.6 TS% 24.2 PER .208 WSp48 57-25 record

Seriously, why include this shit? If you're going to base your arguments on stats, fine, but doesn't the 26/8/7, 55 FG%/62 TS% for Lebron and 29/8/4, 52 FG%/65 TS% for Durant speak for itself?

[livinglegend]

Lebron
Durant
Kobe

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lebron
durant
kobe

[Ikill]

I don't know about that. I guess we can agree to disagree on that. I don't really see that peak Kobe would be clearly above Durant, mainly because of his scoring efficiency, but it depends on the situation imo. I would imagine ppl that see LBJ and Durant this year, would criticize Kobe a little more on his efficiency in his peak. But Kobe playmaking and defense would be better depending on which season you use. But I cannot really see peak Kobe being clearly above Durant this year.

I think it's a interesting take on CP3 tho.
Kobes efficiency is just as impressive Durants and Lebrons considering his volume and how garbage his team was. Having all those shooters to space the floor and having Wade/Bosh drawing defensive attention helps Lebrons efficiency. If peak Kobe played on the current Lakers and only took 19-20 shots his efficiency would be on Durants level. Even if it wasn't Kobe scoring still has more impact

[28renyoy]

Kobes efficiency is just as impressive Durants and Lebrons considering his volume and how garbage his team was. Having all those shooters to space the floor and having Wade/Bosh drawing defensive attention helps Lebrons efficiency. If peak Kobe played on the current Lakers and only took 19-20 shots his efficiency would be on Durant. Even if it wasn't Kobe scoring still has more impact

55 TS%=65 TS% :biggums:

And LOL @ talking about Kobe's efficiency when he was on bad teams. Durant was at 58 TS% in his 2nd year on a team that started out 3-29

[Poochymama]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Kobe
4. Chris Paul

I think a lot of people underestimate what Durant is doing this season because he's so young.

He's putting up 29/8/4 on 65%. Compare that to Kobe's peak - 28/6/5 on 58%. 08' Kobe was a better defender and playmaker, but Durant's improved his playmaking ability considerably this season. I don't think Kobe's edge in defense and playmaking is enough to make up for Durant's edge in scoring and rebounding.

[Hoiids]

I think he'd be the best player. I think 2002/03 Kobe played better and was just about as good in talent. I think either of those guys is the best player in the league.


It'd be interesting to see that Kobe on a team with this much quality, when he is at his absolute best. I wonder if he takes a lot of games off tho. He was doing that even in 2008/09, on a team that won 65 games in the West.


Kobe is most certainly a better player than Kevin Durant. By a lot. As far as scoring, he's the best scorer since Jordan. Durant, I would agree, is much more consistent. Of the true elite of the elite scorers I've seen, he has the best jumpshot. His jumpshot is ridiculous. And he's such a smart off-the ball player...a SG who stands near 6'11.

But Kobe has a higher volume and a higher impact. He might have cold games, like the Barry Sanders of scorers. But his impact was too good. I prefer the way he played in 2003, tho I find it hard to argue that he wasn't more talented after.


His jumpshot is not better than it's ever been. His IQ is higher but he's always going out of his way to prove himself, so it doesn't show. And his handles are nowhere near as good as they used to be. That's the one skill that's really deteriorated.

And lastly, Kobe was an incredible athlete. Lebron is more forceful, but he's not very far ahead. The body is where Lebron really wins. But Kobe is a smarter player and more skilled. And when he's locked in there isn't anyone as good as he is. The problem with him is that, despite that Black Mamba mentality, he is not always locked in and he can be petulant.


HUH?

[Ikill]

55 TS%=65 TS% :biggums:

And LOL @ talking about Kobe's efficiency when he was on bad teams. Durant was at 58 TS% in his 2nd year on a team that started out 3-29
If peak Kobe was taking 19-20 shots a game on a good team i could see him getting close to that

[Micku]

Kobes efficiency is just as impressive Durants and Lebrons considering his volume and how garbage his team was. Having all those shooters to space the floor and having Wade/Bosh drawing defensive attention helps Lebrons efficiency. If peak Kobe played on the current Lakers and only took 19-20 shots his efficiency would be on Durants level. Even if it wasn't Kobe scoring still has more impact

No way. I completely disagree. Granted, on some of those teams, Kobe had to shoot because either he was the only one who can or there was real third option. But Kobe has worst shot selection than either LBJ and Durant and he always shoot a lot no matter what. Sometimes he shoots when he shouldn't shoot. I don't really see Durant doing the same thing if he was on the team, same thing as LBJ.

Plus, Kobe has never been as good Durant in his entire career in terms of efficiency. He can't shoot the FTs as good as Durant, he never was the finisher that Durant is, and Durant is the better shooter almost everywhere on the floor. This includes almost all of Kobe years. And Durant is joining the 50/40/90 club so far this season.

You can argue that Kobe is the better all around player, but he is no way as impressive as Durant been this year on a shooting display. Durant is rare special case this season.

But I think you are right on LBJ and I think Wade and Bosh helps all of them out on their efficiency, but ever since his jumpshot improved, he has been almost impossible to guard.

[arifgokcen]

Kobes efficiency is just as impressive Durants and Lebrons considering his volume and how garbage his team was. Having all those shooters to space the floor and having Wade/Bosh drawing defensive attention helps Lebrons efficiency. If peak Kobe played on the current Lakers and only took 19-20 shots his efficiency would be on Durants level. Even if it wasn't Kobe scoring still has more impact

Dude you are dreaming.Kobe doesnt have the mental restraint of lebron or durant.He always took some of the most stupidest shots we have ever seen and another thing is lebron's efficiency was already at an alltime high before coming to miami.He was above 60%ts before coming to miami.He was posting 30-7-9 consistently without a #2 scorer.Kobe's wasnt that old in 2008 when gasol got traded or the year they won he was just 30.His ts percentage was around 56%.

Another thing if what you said was true his true shooting percentage would be above 60% during 2008 olympics when he was in his prime.Instead he shot the ball worse than anybody on the team well below 60% ts.

[28renyoy]

If peak Kobe was taking 19-20 shots a game on a good team i could see him getting close to that

You mean in like 2008-09 when he averaged 20.9 FGA and ended up at 56.1 TS%

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I wasn't trying to bait anyone, just don't really see how there is a comparison w/ Bron. The flack he gets involves either playing badly in big playoff series or moments where he looks "mentally weak" (i.e. vs Dallas in the finals); the thing is, though, he beats Kobe at pretty much EVERY metric available, AND is more versatile (dude can play more positions which has value in the post season especially as it allows his team to reshuffle the roster due to injuries).

Does anyone remember when Mo Williams was injured and Lebron/Cavs were undefeated w/ "Jawad Williams" starting?? Who? Exactly lol. Cavs won 60 freaking games in a season where Jawad Williams started multiple games at the three! :oldlol: Its crazy that Bron has peaked (or is peaking) defensively and offensively at the SAME TIME - and the results are far more impressive than what we have seen from Kobe.

To me there's really no argument save for voume scoring. Kobe is amazing but LeBron's (overall) play is just on a completely different level.

[Ikill]

No way. I completely disagree. Granted, on some of those teams, Kobe had to shoot because either he was the only one who can or there was real third option. But Kobe has worst shot selection than either LBJ and Durant and he always shoot a lot no matter what. Sometimes he shoots when he shouldn't shoot. I don't really see Durant doing the same thing if he was on the team, same thing as LBJ.

Plus, Kobe has never been as good Durant in his entire career in terms of efficiency. He can't shoot the FTs as good as Durant, he never was the finisher that Durant is, and Durant is the better shooter almost everywhere on the floor. This includes almost all of Kobe years. And Durant is joining the 50/40/90 club so far this season.

You can argue that Kobe is the better all around player, but he is no way as impressive as Durant been this year on a shooting display. Durant is rare special case this season.

But I think you are right on LBJ and I think Wade and Bosh helps all of them out on their efficiency, but ever since his jumpshot improved, he has been almost impossible to guard.
Kobe was shooting 45/35/85 56 ts with 27 shots a game thats pretty crazy if he took 20 shots a game all those percentages rise. I think at the very least he would be at 60-61 ts with 20 shots a game add in Howard and Nash he sees another increase in percentages.

[Anaximandro1]

1 :lebronamazed:

2 :durantunimpressed:

3 :kobe:



The 2003 thing is just wrong. The team was awful. He hardly shot them out of it.

2003 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-2 over Lakers

Kobe missed 90 of 159 shots

[Whoah10115]

HUH?



:sleeping






2003 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-2 over Lakers

Kobe missed 90 of 159 shots




I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE the way you wrote that. He missed 90 of 159 shots!


So what you're saying is that he shot 43% for the field.


I guess the way you wrote better serves your point

[Whoah10115]

I wasn't trying to bait anyone, just don't really see how there is a comparison w/ Bron. The flack he gets involves either playing badly in big playoff series or moments where he looks "mentally weak" (i.e. vs Dallas in the finals); the thing is, though, he beats Kobe at pretty much EVERY metric available, AND is more versatile (dude can play more positions which has value in the post season especially as it allows his team to reshuffle the roster due to injuries).

Does anyone remember when Mo Williams was injured and Lebron/Cavs were undefeated w/ "Jawad Williams" starting?? Who? Exactly lol. Cavs won 60 freaking games in a season where Jawad Williams started multiple games at the three! :oldlol: Its crazy that Bron has peaked (or is peaking) defensively and offensively at the SAME TIME - and the results are far more impressive than what we have seen from Kobe.

To me there's really no argument save for voume scoring. Kobe is amazing but LeBron's (overall) play is just on a completely different level.



I respect one thinking that Lebron is better than Kobe. I really do. I don't respect thinking Lebron is on a different level, because it's stupid.


You can judge metrics all you want, but styles of play and team setups have a big impact on that, especially with James. His game is all about him doing everything, but he has always had the surrounding cast to enable that. He has more restraint than Bryant. He's also a different kind of player. Metrics have their place but the Lebron/Kobe comparison is where they go off the tracks.


If you think Lebron is better, I respect that. I can see that. If you think he's on a different level, then I'm not going to respect that because it's stupid.

[Ikill]

You mean in like 2008-09 when he averaged 20.9 FGA and ended up at 56.1 TS%
2006 Kobe=2009 Kobe? Why don't you use 2007 he took 4 less shots increased his % by 2. If you take off 4 more shots he is taking 18.8 fga pretty much same as Durant Lebron he would be at 60% ts. He would be at 60% with a garbage team and a slow start due to injury. ( I think he had knee surgery not sure)

[tmacattack33]

Kobe was shooting 45/35/85 56 ts with 27 shots a game thats pretty crazy if he took 20 shots a game all those percentages rise. I think at the very least he would be at 60-61 ts with 20 shots a game add in Howard and Nash he sees another increase in percentages.

All that assumes that Kobe could have just decided to get rid of his bad shots and keep his good ones if he wanted to by choice.

The problem is, it doesn't seem that he was good enough mentally with his shot selection to do so.



Further evidence of this is how he never was even able to shoot above 50 FG% (or 60 TS%) with peak Shaq on his team (along with a great supporting cast in 2000, 2001, and 2002).

[rmt]

PEAK Kobe missed the playoffs. Can't imagine any other top 10 player doing that.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron and CP3 are definitely better than Kobe ever was, the others I aint sure.

[Whoah10115]

PEAK Kobe missed the playoffs. Can't imagine any other top 10 player doing that.



If that was peak Kobe, then that same year was peak Lebron. And Lebron missed the playoffs in the East. And his team won 39 games.


Bryant missed 13 games and was hurt during the year. He didn't average better stats than he did in years with Shaq or years without Shaq. Don't be a stupid person. That wasn't his peak.



Lebron and CP3 are definitely better than Kobe ever was, the others I aint sure.


Come on man. That's really stupid. I don't get this, I don't get the way you rate Kidd, I don't get the way you rate Paul all-time. It's factually incorrect.


Better than Bryant? Kobe has some annoying stans and some annoying haters. It's sad.

[swag2011]

PEAK Kobe missed the playoffs. Can't imagine any other top 10 player doing that.

Didn't Hakeem and kareem both miss the playoffs? Aren't they both top 10 players? Why does everyone ignore Kobe was injured for a great deal of those game in that 05 season?

[ShaqAttack3234]

All that assumes that Kobe could have just decided to get rid of his bad shots and keep his good ones if he wanted to by choice.

The problem is, it doesn't seem that he was good enough mentally with his shot selection to do so.



Further evidence of this is how he never was even able to shoot above 50 FG% (or 60 TS%) with peak Shaq on his team (along with a great supporting cast in 2000, 2001, and 2002).

I agree that Kobe isn't really a guy whose efficiency rises significantly with fewer shots, or drops significantly with more shots, but the early 2000's is a bad example. First of all, Kobe was younger, and more importantly, very few perimeter players shot anywhere near 50% back then. As far as high scorers, Grant Hill was the closest in 2000 when he averaged 26. Other than that, the 25+ ppg guys from 2000-2002 were Iverson who was at 25+ all 3 years, but shot 40% and 42%, Carter who did it twice and shot 46-47% in those seasons, T-Mac who did it twice and shot 45-46% in those seasons, Pierce who did it twice and shot 44-45% in those seasons, and Stackhouse who did it once and shot 40%.

So Kobe's 46-47% was as good as any high-scoring perimeter player at the time.

And aside from Shaq, the 3peat lakers were hardly a great supporting cast, they had a few solid role players on each team, but no real offensive threats and typically below average shooters.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If you think Lebron is better, I respect that. I can see that. If you think he's on a different level, then I'm not going to respect that because it's stupid.

No player since peak Shaq has had the level of impact James brings to the table. Even if PEAK Kobe is a better scorer, James would STILL be on another level, just as he is now w/ Durant (who's outrageously efficient) riding his coattails.

I know Kobe is your guy, but that's just the truth.

[Ikill]

All that assumes that Kobe could have just decided to get rid of his bad shots and keep his good ones if he wanted to by choice.

The problem is, it doesn't seem that he was good enough mentally with his shot selection to do so.



Further evidence of this is how he never was even able to shoot above 50% FG with peak Shaq on his team (along with a great supporting cast in 2000, 2001, and 2002).
Yeah im not sure Kobe would be willing to take less 20 shots a game at his peak. If he were willing to I think he would have more success at doing what Durant does rather than the other way around.

Kobe wasn't in his prime when playing with Shaq it was also a tougher defensive era

[shady6121]

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[Hoopz2332]

pretty much tied with Lebron you could make a case that he's better than Lebron


GTFO:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If that was peak Kobe, then that same year was peak Lebron. And Lebron missed the playoffs in the East. And his team won 39 games.

Lebron was NOT at his peak at 20 ... This forum is seriously retarded.

[Whoah10115]

Didn't Hakeem and kareem both miss the playoffs? Aren't they both top 10 players? Why does everyone ignore Kobe was injured for a great deal of those game in that 05 season?




Actually, Kareem missed the playoffs two years in a row. After the first time, he forced a trade to LA. The Lakers, after making the playoffs the year before, missed the playoffs with Kareem. The Bucks, having missed it with Kareem, made it without.

Kareem still won the MVP lol. This was actually a legitimate indictment on Kareem, post 1st title and before the titles with Magic.


Not that he isn't top 10.

[alleykat]

Tied with lebron...two different skill sets tho....

Would they win more? If Nash and Pau can suddenly become at least efficient in defense then sure.....it's not Kobe's fault those two cant guard a fly

[LBJ 23]

And lastly, Kobe was an incredible athlete. Lebron is more forceful, but he's not very far ahead. The body is where Lebron really wins. But Kobe is a smarter player and more skilled. And when he's locked in there isn't anyone as good as he is. The problem with him is that, despite that Black Mamba mentality, he is not always locked in and he can be petulant.


Wow, what a gem right here.

Please, explain to me how Kobe is a smarter player? Really interested hearing that

[LBJ 23]

To answer OP

Lebron
Durant
Kobe

[Ikill]

Wow, what a gem right here.

Please, explain to me how Kobe is a smarter player? Really interested hearing that
There smart in different ways

[LBJ 23]

There smart in different ways

Please, go ahead and explain those ''ways''....

[nightprowler10]

I'm as big of a Kobe hater as anyone, but some of the stuff I'm reading here is downright retarded. Comparing Kobe's MVP season with KD now isn't right IMO, that wasn't even his best season. And lol at those poo-pooing KD this year. He's a ****ing beast with skinny arms.

To answer the OP, I think it'd be pretty hard for me split the three at the top. I think it'd still be LeBron at the top with KD/Kobe duking it out for 2nd best. And lol at CP3 being better than KD.

[Whoah10115]

No player since peak Shaq has had the level of impact James brings to the table. Even if PEAK Kobe is a better scorer, James would STILL be on another level, just as he is now w/ Durant (who's outrageously efficient) riding his coattails.

I know Kobe is your guy, but that's just the truth.


Bryant hasn't been my guy since 2004. I'd go as far as to say I dislike him.



Durant is most certainly not on the level of Kobe Bryant. Lebron may be better. I disagree, but I get that. But a different level is just inaccurate. And in the case of Lebron James, so much of his regular season success does not translate in the playoffs. I think it's a lot like Peyton Manning. I think Manning is the best, but all-time it's hard to rank him ahead of Brady. But that's not the issue. The similarities come from the two of them leading casts (Lebron in Cleveland not in Miami) that are not as good as their regular seasons would imply. But Peyton is compensating for a full team. Lebron's game is predicated on him doing everything, all the time. That's what people point to. But a lot of the times, it seems he can only be that good at the expense of a team being good enough to go anywhere.


With all that said, the Heat are a great team, still. They were one last year. And what he did was impressive. He had a lot of help but he also had to do a lot. I think most people lump his Cleveland days with these Miami days, when he's clearly a much better player now. But what I said applies, even now, to a point. And I think Kobe is better. The difference in a game, in a series, would favor Kobe's team, I believe.


Lebron was NOT at his peak at 20 ... This forum is seriously retarded.


Did I say he was at his peak at 20, or did I say "If Kobe was at his"?


That's what I said. Kobe was not at his peak and he was injured.

[avonbarksdale]

it would be an argument whos better him or lebron.

[arifgokcen]

Wow, what a gem right here.

Please, explain to me how Kobe is a smarter player? Really interested hearing that
Yes that part made me laugh too.Kobe is probably the most stupid decision making superstar we have seen in 2000s.(i didnt include iverson because he wasnt a superstar for the good portion of 2000s.What i dont understand is how he always gets a credit for being one of the smartest players.

The problem with kobe is his will most of the time clouds his judgment.



If that was peak Kobe, then that same year was peak Lebron. And Lebron missed the playoffs in the East. And his team won 39 games.
Bryant missed 13 games and was hurt during the year. He didn't average better stats than he did in years with Shaq or years without Shaq. Don't be a stupid person. That wasn't his peak.
Come on man. That's really stupid. I don't get this, I don't get the way you rate Kidd, I don't get the way you rate Paul all-time. It's factually incorrect.
Better than Bryant? Kobe has some annoying stans and some annoying haters. It's sad.
Wow your logic.Man you really are a blind fan

How does that even work.Kobe peak is lebron peak????

BTW lebron in his prime won 66-61 games with a supporting cast that won just 20ish games after he left.Dont tell me they lost freaking injured 40year old shaq or slower than old american ilgauskas or bipolar west.

Nobody here is arguing about kobe's place on alltime list.He is probably ranked anywhere from 6-9 but when you consider peaks lebron is on a different level.Since jordan we havent seen a wing like lebron that impacts the game so much.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bryant hasn't been my guy since 2004. I'd go as far as to say I dislike him.



Durant is most certainly not on the level of Kobe Bryant. Lebron may be better. I disagree, but I get that. But a different level is just inaccurate. And in the case of Lebron James, so much of his regular season success does not translate in the playoffs. I think it's a lot like Peyton Manning. I think Manning is the best, but all-time it's hard to rank him ahead of Brady. But that's not the issue. The similarities come from the two of them leading casts (Lebron in Cleveland not in Miami) that are not as good as their regular seasons would imply. But Peyton is compensating for a full team. Lebron's game is predicated on him doing everything, all the time. That's what people point to. But a lot of the times, it seems he can only be that good at the expense of a team being good enough to go anywhere.


With all that said, the Heat are a great team, still. They were one last year. And what he did was impressive. He had a lot of help but he also had to do a lot. I think most people lump his Cleveland days with these Miami days, when he's clearly a much better player now. But what I said applies, even now, to a point. And I think Kobe is better. The difference in a game, in a series, would favor Kobe's team, I believe.

I couldn't disagree more. "Another level" may be hyperbole on my part, but dude would be comfortably ahead of Kobe, just as he is now w/ Durant. Is what it is.

[Whoah10115]

Wow, what a gem right here.

Please, explain to me how Kobe is a smarter player? Really interested hearing that



First of all, don't be ignorant. I'm not comparing him to James but to McGrady. And if you think McGrady is a smarter player than Kobe Bryant, then you go ahead and you think that.


Second, don't confuse a chucking ballhog with a low IQ player. If you don't think Kobe Bryant has a super high basketball IQ, then you have a very low IQ. There's nothing to argue there. There isn't any serious basketball person who doesn't think Kobe has a very high IQ. But if you want to simplify your idea of what IQ is or what anything is, you go ahead.

[Ikill]

Yes that part made me laugh too.Kobe is probably the most stupid decision making superstar we have seen in 2000s.(i didnt include iverson because he wasnt a superstar for the good portion of 2000s.What i dont understand is how he always gets a credit for being one of the smartest players.

The problem with kobe is his will most of the time clouds his judgment.



Wow your logic.Man you really are a blind fan

How does that even work.Kobe peak is lebron peak????

BTW lebron in his prime won 66-61 games with a supporting cast that won just 20ish games after he left.Dont tell me they lost freaking injured 40year old shaq or slower than old american ilgauskas or bipolar west.

Nobody here is arguing about kobe's place on alltime list.He is probably ranked anywhere from 6-9 but when you consider peaks lebron is on a different level.Since jordan we havent seen a wing like lebron that impacts the game so much.
It doesn't really matter how they did without Lebron

[arifgokcen]

It doesn't really matter how they did without Lebron
Actually it does because he was talking about kobe and when kobe missed some games due to injuries.

[Whoah10115]

Wow your logic.Man you really are a blind fan

How does that even work.Kobe peak is lebron peak????

BTW lebron in his prime won 66-61 games with a supporting cast that won just 20ish games after he left.Dont tell me they lost freaking injured 40year old shaq or slower than old american ilgauskas or bipolar west.

Nobody here is arguing about kobe's place on alltime list.He is probably ranked anywhere from 6-9 but when you consider peaks lebron is on a different level.Since jordan we havent seen a wing like lebron that impacts the game so much.



Bro, you're stupid. If you can't recognize sarcasm and a throwaway line, and need to take everything literally, when the body and substance of the post makes clear the opinion, then that's your problem.

What's worse is I don't think that's your problem. I think you disagree and you'd rather identify sarcasm as literal and call condescending attention to that.

[red1]

Whoah I always disagree with you. These guys are right when they call you out for saying that kobe is a smarter player on the court than lbj. Thats just not true

[tmacattack33]

I agree that Kobe isn't really a guy whose efficiency rises significantly with fewer shots, or drops significantly with more shots, but the early 2000's is a bad example. First of all, Kobe was younger, and more importantly, very few perimeter players shot anywhere near 50% back then. As far as high scorers, Grant Hill was the closest in 2000 when he averaged 26. Other than that, the 25+ ppg guys from 2000-2002 were Iverson who was at 25+ all 3 years, but shot 40% and 42%, Carter who did it twice and shot 46-47% in those seasons, T-Mac who did it twice and shot 45-46% in those seasons, Pierce who did it twice and shot 44-45% in those seasons, and Stackhouse who did it once and shot 40%.

So Kobe's 46-47% was as good as any high-scoring perimeter player at the time.

And aside from Shaq, the 3peat lakers were hardly a great supporting cast, they had a few solid role players on each team, but no real offensive threats and typically below average shooters.

Good points to counter my "further evidence" comment.

I don't know, we still don't have proof that Kobe could get 29 ppg on 60 TS% so we'd just have to guess if he could do it. And I'd say No. You could say Yes though, that's your opinion.

But KD isn't just at 60 TS% right now, he's at 65 TS%...so I don't even know what we are/were talking about.

[LBJ 23]

First of all, don't be ignorant. I'm not comparing him to James but to McGrady. And if you think McGrady is a smarter player than Kobe Bryant, then you go ahead and you think that.


Second, don't confuse a chucking ballhog with a low IQ player. If you don't think Kobe Bryant has a super high basketball IQ, then you have a very low IQ. There's nothing to argue there. There isn't any serious basketball person who doesn't think Kobe has a very high IQ. But if you want to simplify your idea of what IQ is or what anything is, you go ahead.


What the hell are you even typing? You wrote this....


And lastly, Kobe was an incredible athlete. Lebron is more forceful, but he's not very far ahead. The body is where Lebron really wins. But Kobe is a smarter player and more skilled.

Where are you comparing Kobe to T-mac here???


And all your blabbing in second paragraph about my idea of basketball IQ is irrelevant here. I never said Kobe has low bbal IQ, I just pointed out when you said he's smarter player than Lebron. And that my friend is completely false....

[The-Legend-24]

Elite defense + All time great offense? hmm... not even top 5 according to the haters.

:oldlol:

[rmt]

First of all, don't be ignorant. I'm not comparing him to James but to McGrady. And if you think McGrady is a smarter player than Kobe Bryant, then you go ahead and you think that.


Second, don't confuse a chucking ballhog with a low IQ player. If you don't think Kobe Bryant has a super high basketball IQ, then you have a very low IQ. There's nothing to argue there. There isn't any serious basketball person who doesn't think Kobe has a very high IQ. But if you want to simplify your idea of what IQ is or what anything is, you go ahead.

Well, that super high basketball IQ isn't translating into good shot selection. Or are you saying that good shot selection isn't part of having a super high basketball IQ? What it really comes down to is that Kobe is a chucking ball hog too.

[Micku]

Kobe was shooting 45/35/85 56 ts with 27 shots a game thats pretty crazy if he took 20 shots a game all those percentages rise. I think at the very least he would be at 60-61 ts with 20 shots a game add in Howard and Nash he sees another increase in percentages.

Let me give you an example because I don't think I explain very well in my last post.

2000-01 Kobe shot 22.2 FGA and average 28.5 ppg.

2002-03 Kobe shot 23.5 FGA and average 30.0 ppg.

2007-08 Kobe shot 20.6 FGA and average 28.3 ppg.

2008-09 Kobe shot 20.9 FGA and average 26.8 ppg.

Durant this year is shooting 18.5 FGA and is averaging 29.3 ppg.

Durant not only average more points than Kobe except for 03 Kobe, but he is taking less shots. Kobe needs 20-22 FGA to average 28-29 ppg. Durant does not. Why is this? The simple answer is that Durant is better at scoring efficiency.

In terms of 05-06 Kobe, he shot a lot and he scored a bunch of points. I'm not saying that isn't impressive because only few ppl could do that. But you can make the argument that Durant if he wanted to, could do the something similar if he wanted to, but he never proved it and I doubt he'll do that. When Kobe did took less shots, he was never as efficient as Durant. Young or old. And I doubt he would average 60% TS if he did had Howard and Nash on the team in 06. He was never that type of player.

[dbk123]

1a. Lebron
1b. Durant
2. Cp3
3. Kobe

[DatAsh]

Kobes efficiency is just as impressive Durants and Lebrons considering his volume and how garbage his team was. Having all those shooters to space the floor and having Wade/Bosh drawing defensive attention helps Lebrons efficiency. If peak Kobe played on the current Lakers and only took 19-20 shots his efficiency would be on Durants level. Even if it wasn't Kobe scoring still has more impact

Kobe isn't capable of averaging 29 ppg on 65%. You're kidding yourself if you think he is. I doubt he's even capable of 29ppg on 60%, much less 65%. I even have my doubts that Jordan is capable of that kind of efficiency.

Part of it is free throws. Durant gets to the line quite a bit more than Kobe or Jordan do/did, and he's super efficient once he gets there.

[Whoah10115]

What the hell are you even typing? You wrote this....



Where are you comparing Kobe to T-mac here???


And all your blabbing in second paragraph about my idea of basketball IQ is irrelevant here. I never said Kobe has low bbal IQ, I just pointed out when you said he's smarter player than Lebron. And that my friend is completely false....



That's my fault, I had recently posted in another thread and I stressed that about Bryant over McGrady.


With all that said, I believe so. You know why? Lebron has elite vision. A PG's vision. And he is a smart player, no doubt. Keep in mind that a lot of people, and I don't mean Kobe stans (but dumb people) think Lebron isn't intelligent and that his game is mostly physical. I don't agree. I think Lebron is an incredibly smart player and often really does play the game the right way.


But I think Kobe is craftier. I think he's smarter. Lebron has the feel for the game, even a better feel for the all-around aspects. But Kobe is a smart player who knows how to draw contact, knows how to draw doubles, can rely on things other than his athleticism.

You can disagree, but Bryant's IQ has never been his problem. That will, that Black Mamba instinct (I think I said exactly that) has gotten in his way at least as much as it's come thru for him in big moments. He gets caught in moments sometimes, but usually he's a petulant ass and a chucker. No, that doesn't mean his IQ is low. That means he has a big problem and he's his own worst enemy, much of the time...and not on principle, either.


The reason I haven't liked Kobe since 2004 is exactly that. He's one of the most athletic guys, the most skilled, the most talented. And he's smarter than most. Plus, he's a super hard-worker, a craftsman, a student and lover of the game. He's got balls, he's more clutch than anyone, and he has the killer mentality. But he said something last year about only getting into trouble when you try to fight father time. And it's just as arrogant as him trying to convince me that's 180 lbs "soaking wet" and that he's 6'4 with shoes on. I'm not stupid.


I like arrogance but Kobe is to the point where he's just obnoxious, fun to listen to, not someone I like. But don't let all of that cloud whether or not his IQ is high.

[Whoah10115]

Well, that super high basketball IQ isn't translating into good shot selection. Or are you saying that good shot selection isn't part of having a super high basketball IQ? What it really comes down to is that Kobe is a chucking ball hog too.



And the last part I stress everything I talk about him. He's not doing it this year, that much. But he's always done it and it's annoying.

[Ikill]

Let me give you an example because I don't think I explain very well in my last post.

2000-01 Kobe shot 22.2 FGA and average 28.5 ppg.

2002-03 Kobe shot 23.5 FGA and average 30.0 ppg.

2007-08 Kobe shot 20.6 FGA and average 28.3 ppg.

2008-09 Kobe shot 20.9 FGA and average 26.8 ppg.

Durant this year is shooting 18.5 FGA and is averaging 29.3 ppg.

Durant not only average more points than Kobe except for 03 Kobe, but he is taking less shots. Kobe needs 20-22 FGA to average 28-29 ppg. Durant does not. Why is this? The simple answer is that Durant is better at scoring efficiency.

In terms of 05-06 Kobe, he shot a lot and he scored a bunch of points. I'm not saying that isn't impressive because only few ppl could do that. But you can make the argument that Durant if he wanted to, could do the something similar if he wanted to, but he never proved it and I doubt he'll do that. When Kobe did took less shots, he was never as efficient as Durant. Young or old. And I doubt he would average 60% TS if he did had Howard and Nash on the team in 06. He was never that type of player.
Those are not his peak years in 07 coming back from knee surgery he took 23 shots a game with 58%. Also Nash and Dwight would help just look at Kobe this year unless your saying 2013 Kobe>2006 Kobe?

[Artillery]

'06 Kobe get very overrated around here. Defenses were incredibly lax at the time due to the new rules regarding hand-checking. As a result, every wing player was putting up career highs that year in scoring: Iverson at 33 ppg, Lebron at 31 ppg, Arenas at 29 ppg, Pierce at 27 ppg, Dirk at 27 ppg. It took a year or two for defenses to adjust to the new rules.

[LikeABosh]

2b with Durant

[Artillery]

And yeah, anybody that thinks "peak" Kobe is better than Lebron/Durant is a retard. Those two are highly efficient players leading good teams. Peak Kobe led his team nowhere except multiple first round exits. Efficiency gets underrated around here.

[rodman91]

Under Lebron & Durant, Above Melo.

[Whoah10115]

And yeah, anybody that thinks "peak" Kobe is better than Lebron/Durant is a retard. Those two are highly efficient players leading good teams. Peak Kobe led his team nowhere except multiple first round exits. Efficiency gets underrated around here.



Man, you're stupid.


Kevin Durant ahead of Kobe Bryant...lol. Awful world we live in.


But you know what, being serious. It'd be easier for me to take you seriously if you weren't agenda-driven. But in threads that have nothing to do with any of this, you (and those of your ilk) love to chime in and just derail with the usual agenda-driven crap that sounds a lot like you don't even think Kobe is a player with positive impact, which would mean that Kobe is a subpar player.


For anyone to wonder and compare Durant to Kobe...that's sad. Because not everything should be up for discussion. Maybe in 2-3 years, Durant will be there. But no, he's not there.

[ShaqAttack3234]

'06 Kobe get very overrated around here. Defenses were incredibly lax at the time due to the new rules regarding hand-checking. As a result, every wing player was putting up career highs that year in scoring: Iverson at 33 ppg, Lebron at 31 ppg, Arenas at 29 ppg, Pierce at 27 ppg, Dirk at 27 ppg.

I don't think it would have made that much of a difference. A '06 level healthy Kobe given the greenlight all year probably averages at least 33-34 ppg on no less than 44% a few years earlier. He was doing it a lot with tough jumpers.

If you look at some of the other scorers who were Kobe's peers, they saw significant increases in their FGA/FTA ratio.

Iverson
2001- 2.52
2002- 2.85
2003- 2.64

2006- 2.20

Pierce
2001- 2.05
2002- 2.49
2003- 2.11

2006- 1.82

Kobe
2001- 2.71
2002- 2.71
2003- 2.70

2006- 2.65

Very little difference compared to Pierce and Iverson. And even Pierce and Iverson's increased FTs can't solely be attributed to the rule changes. Iverson moved to point guard and became more ball-dominant as opposed to the Larry brown era when he was a shooting guard who played off the ball more than later and shot more jumpers. Pierce also shot less 3s in '06 than earlier and seemed a little more skilled and savvy overall which contributed to more free throws. When he took 2 extra 3s the next season, his FTA dropped by almost 2 per game while taking almost the same amount of shots as '06.


Good points to counter my "further evidence" comment.

I don't know, we still don't have proof that Kobe could get 29 ppg on 60 TS% so we'd just have to guess if he could do it. And I'd say No. You could say Yes though, that's your opinion.

But KD isn't just at 60 TS% right now, he's at 65 TS%...so I don't even know what we are/were talking about.

In a realistic setting, Kobe probably would never average around 30 on 60 TS%. If he just made it his goal to completely disregard the offense and work for any shot he wanted at all times, then he obviously could technically. But I'd agree that in any realistic scenario, his TS% won't be 60%.

[LBJ 23]

With all that said, I believe so. You know why? Lebron has elite vision. A PG's vision. And he is a smart player, no doubt. Keep in mind that a lot of people, and I don't mean Kobe stans (but dumb people) think Lebron isn't intelligent and that his game is mostly physical. I don't agree. I think Lebron is an incredibly smart player and often really does play the game the right way.


But I think Kobe is craftier. I think he's smarter. Lebron has the feel for the game, even a better feel for the all-around aspects. But Kobe is a smart player who knows how to draw contact, knows how to draw doubles, can rely on things other than his athleticism.


You sound soo like Pauk with those 2 paragraphs. Pauk usually starts with '' Look I really like Durant blah blah blah and then in the last sentence he completely contradicts himself. And you're doing the same here...

Firstly you say how smart player Lebron is and how dumb are those people who think that ''Lebron isn't intelligent and that his game is mostly physical''. Then in your last sentence you list all the things Kobe can do and you also say ''can rely on things other than his athleticism '' and cuz you're comparing Kobe to Lebron I understand that last part as that Lebron can only rely on his athleticism? Even though in the first paragraph you say how dumb are those who think that and that you dont' agree.

Now, or you one of those dumb people or are you being a hypocrite here in a Pauk-like style? :cheers:

Each to their own I guess, despite Kobe having high bball IQ he's not smarter bball player than Lebron in my opinion...

[inclinerator]

idk he'd be up there, he would probably be the most feared player by far tho, everytime he took a jumper back then i thought it was going in

[Whoah10115]

You sound soo like Pauk with those 2 paragraphs. Pauk usually starts with '' Look I really like Durant blah blah blah and then in the last sentence he completely contradicts himself. And you're doing the same here...

Firstly you say how smart player Lebron is and how dumb are those people who think that ''Lebron isn't intelligent and that his game is mostly physical''. Then in your last sentence you list all the things Kobe can do and you also say ''can rely on things other than his athleticism '' and cuz you're comparing Kobe to Lebron I understand that last part as that Lebron can only rely on his athleticism? Even though in the first paragraph you say how dumb are those who think that and that you dont' agree.

Now, or you one of those dumb people or are you being a hypocrite here in a Pauk-like style? :cheers:

Each to their own I guess, despite Kobe having high bball IQ he's not smarter bball player than Lebron in my opinion...




So I can't take Bryant over James without it being an insult to Lebron? Did I say any of that was at the expense of Lebron? Did you highlight the athleticism part because you think that's a thinly veiled shot at James? I didn't say he relies on his athleticism, because I don't he relies on it. In fact, I'd say he relies more on his body than his athleticism. But I also said that he plays the game the right way. I love the way he plays defense. What I saw him do in that Chicago series was astonishing. The versatility, the right thing at the right time, the roaming. And since then he's been arguably the best defender in the league, even if I think he's been very inconsistent on defense this season. I like how he's versatile. I also think that he over relies on his all-around game and sometimes doesn't play free. Do I think his IQ is low because of that?


Kobe not relying on his athleticism is about Kobe not relying on his athleticism. He's a skill player, who can explode. He focuses on his footwork, his intelligence, his skill. That has nothing to do with Lebron. If you're trying to put it all together and get to the bottom of something I'm trying to say, then have at it. It's not what I'm trying to say. If it was, I'd say it. Why the hell do I care if I say something that other people think is crazy? I'll say what I think.

[Artillery]

Man, you're stupid.


Kevin Durant ahead of Kobe Bryant...lol. Awful world we live in.


But you know what, being serious. It'd be easier for me to take you seriously if you weren't agenda-driven. But in threads that have nothing to do with any of this, you (and those of your ilk) love to chime in and just derail with the usual agenda-driven crap that sounds a lot like you don't even think Kobe is a player with positive impact, which would mean that Kobe is a subpar player.


For anyone to wonder and compare Durant to Kobe...that's sad. Because not everything should be up for discussion. Maybe in 2-3 years, Durant will be there. But no, he's not there.


Not surprising you underrate efficiency when you have an Ewing avatar. 51% TS percentage in the playoffs for a big man :oldlol: . No wonder the 90s Knicks never won a title.

[che guevara]

1. LeBron
2. Durant
3. Kobe


Kobe has never had a season at the level of current LeBron or Durant. They're having 2 of the greatest seasons of all time.
I can't believe I'm agreeing with this guy, but I am.

[swag2011]

And yeah, anybody that thinks "peak" Kobe is better than Lebron/Durant is a retard. Those two are highly efficient players leading good teams. Peak Kobe led his team nowhere except multiple first round exits. Efficiency gets underrated around here.


Key word "good teams". You telling me Peak Kobe had a team as good as Lebron or Durant have currently?

[Whoah10115]

Not surprising you underrate efficiency when you have an Ewing avatar. 51% TS percentage in the playoffs for a big man :oldlol: . No wonder the 90s Knicks never won a title.


:oldlol:


Somebody still doesn't know what he's talking about. Tell me more about this TS%.

[Micku]

Those are not his peak years in 07 coming back from knee surgery he took 23 shots a game with 58%. Also Nash and Dwight would help just look at Kobe this year unless your saying 2013 Kobe>2006 Kobe?

People have different opinions on peak years. Some ppl say it was 2007-08, some say 2005-06, some say 02-03. Would Kobe 05-06 average that many shots on the 09, 10, 13 Lakers. I doubt it.

2013 was the most efficient Kobe season so far, but that would change after tonight. The reason why it was because of his shot selection and his career high at finishing at the rim. He didn't have Nash for about 20+ games when Kobe was shooting season high on FG and TS%.

And Kobe never was able to what Durant is doing this year in terms of scoring efficiency. If he did, then he wouldn't need 20+ shots to average 28-30 ppg throughout his career. He would get 29 ppg on just 18 shots like what Durant is doing this year, and then some. But he never had.

I don't know what else you can say because I don't see how Kobe is better than Durant on scoring efficient. Durant is the better FT shooter, 3pt shooter, has a just as good or better midrange game, and he finish much better at the rim than Kobe ever had. Kobe has never been able to match what Durant is doing this year on scoring efficiency in his 17 season career.

And it's mostly his fault because of his shot selection imo. He shoot difficult shots when he doesn't have to. That never changed throughout his career. He did get better at, but still not great.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Holy shit. ISH has shitload of ****ing idiots. Putting Durant ahead of Kobe or tied with him :roll: :roll: :roll:

[KOBE143]

Right now most fans have Kobe as the best player in the league or tied with LeBron..

Then imagine a PEAK Kobe Bryant in today's league.. That's equivalent to a prime Jordan playing in the 50s.. Best player by far..

[InspiredLebowski]

#2 behind Lebron. With a gap.

[Screamingdoom]

Right now most fans have Kobe as the best player in the league or tied with LeBron..

Then imagine a PEAK Kobe Bryant in today's league.. That's equivalent to a prime Jordan playing in the 50s.. Best player by far..

:roll: Just stop.

[talkingconch]

the best, people forgetting peak kobe :no:

[jstern]

I think the Lakers would definitely have a few more wins, would be one of the top 8 teams (team chemistry would still be problem), but Kobe would have 0 MVPs for his career with the way Lebron has been dominating. (Neg put me under :D)

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Ahead of Durant for #2 but still quite a big gap from lebron.

[JerryWest]

#1

[NLZ]

Obvious answer: #1

Many would view LeBron as the more "complete" player though. Kobe is just that much more enjoyable to watch than LeBron, way more skilled and his finesse game > LeBron's fastbreak dunks.

[NumberSix]

Ahead of Durant for #2 but still quite a big gap from lebron.
:applause:

[clayton]

He would be competing with Durant for best scorer in the game. But LeBron would still be the best player in the league.

[Jacks3]

#2 behind LBJ. 03 Kobe today with no hand-checking? LOL.

Dude would be putting up something like 33-34/6-7/6/2+/1/58% TS while being a legitimate All-Defense type defender. And something like 20+ 40 pt games and 8-10 50+ pt games.

Dude would destroy. :oldlol:

[B4llin]

TBH Kobe's peake 30-32/6/6 at 40% is shit compared to lebrons 27/8/8 57%

Peak Lebron>>>>>>Peak Kobe

Stat wise of course, which is what counts right?

[La Frescobaldi]

I'd say LA would at least be at .500, but the problems with this team are not primarily due to Kobe. They've been due to injuries, a lack of chemistry, Howard and Gasol performing below expectations(especially Gasol who has been a virtual non-factor) and bad coaching. I think '08 Kobe might work pretty well because he did his best job as a playmaker and all around player while still easily averaging 28-30 per game within the flow of the offense. Kobe doesn't enough credit for how much better he made his teammates that year. And not only was his individual defense very good that year, but he was a leader at that end. Wouldn't solve all of their problems, but I see Howard and or Gasol being a little more involved, and everyone more engaged defensively.

How much better was he at his peak offensively than he is now? Well by 2006-2008, he had essentially the same skills, but with much more athleticism and stamina. Kobe's stamina has been impressive, but I don't trust him as much to hold up for the entire year carrying this load due to age, injuries and mileage. Kobe in '06 on the otherhand played 41 mpg and averaged 35 ppg taking 27 FGA and 10 FTA. That's just remarkable.

Tough to compare him and Durant as scorers. Kobe is the better volume scorer, but Durant is more consistent. I'm hesitant to say we've seen anyone who has been a better scorer than Kobe since Jordan.

He'd be comparable to Lebron and Durant. I might put him between the 2, but he'd be right up there. You'd be able to make the case that he's the best in the league.
Pau Gasol gave up basketball right here:

http://lakersblog.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c506253ef01538e9132d6970b-640wi

He's been going through the motions ever since, basically taking money he's not earning. Still has moments but that is when he quit.

[Xiengqichess]

Kobe in his prime dominated prime Garnet, Dirk, Wade and sh*t on so many Kobe-stoppers. He could always win games by himself. The defense could not stop him even they knew he was going to shot.
Back then, the Lakers down by 15-18 then Kobe could go off to win the game by himself.
Please take a look at the game Lakers vs Cavs in 07 when Le Bron in his 4th year. Even though the Lakers lost that game but you can clearly see how Kobe dominated Le Bron.
Kobe in his prime would be the best or neck to neck to Le Bron as today!

[PJR]

Kobe in his prime dominated prime Garnet, Dirk, Wade and sh*t on so many Kobe-stoppers. He could always win games by himself. The defense could not stop him even they knew he was going to shot.
Back then, the Lakers down by 15-18 then Kobe could go off to win the game by himself.
Please take a look at the game Lakers vs Cavs in 07 when Le Bron in his 4th year. Even though the Lakers lost that game but you can clearly see how Kobe dominated Le Bron.
Kobe in his prime would be the best or neck to neck to Le Bron as today!

A complete fabrication.

[Odinn]

Let's try something else. Not just one particular name but think about all the active names which is or was a superstar.


Think of the listed players at their absolute best;
PGs; Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups
SGs; Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Jerry Stackhouse, James Harden
SFs; LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Grant Hill, Metta World Peace
BIGs; Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Amar'e Stoudemire, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, Elton Brand, Blake Griffin, Jermaine O'Neal

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Let's try something else. Not just one particular name but think about all the active names which is or was a superstar.


Think of the listed players at their absolute best;
PGs; Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups
SGs; Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Jerry Stackhouse, James Harden
SFs; LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Grant Hill, Metta World Peace
BIGs; Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Amar'e Stoudemire, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, Elton Brand, Blake Griffin, Jermaine O'Neal

Interesting I'll do a top 10:

James

Duncan

Wade
Bryant
Garnett
Nowitzki

Paul
Durant
Kidd
Nash

What's your top 10?

[Odinn]

Interesting I'll do a top 10:

James

Duncan

Wade
Bryant
Garnett
Nowitzki

Paul
Kidd
Nash
Carter

What's your top 10?
1. Tim Duncan
2. LeBron James
3. Kobe Bryant

4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Kevin Durant

8. Jason Kidd
9. Chris Paul
10. Steve Nash

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. Tim Duncan
2. LeBron James
3. Kobe Bryant

4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dirk Nowitzki
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Kevin Durant

8. Jason Kidd
9. Chris Paul
10. Steve Nash
I forgot durant :hammerhead:

[Shade8780]

1. LeBron

2. Kobe
3. Durant

[gengiskhan]

Prime Peak Kobe goes like this:

1. LBJ (has been the best player in the game in Kobe's prime 2008 - Present)
2. Durant (he just scores more easily & effectively cuz of rules.)
3. Kobe (best offensive skills set off post up & best footwork by far)
4. Wade

[EllisGW]

anyone who says kobe over lebron should find a new sport to watch. Every gm would take lebron start a franchise with over kobe in a heartbeat and it's not even close.

Kobe is only better at FT shooting when they're both in their primes.

[Rysio]

anyone who says kobe over lebron should find a new sport to watch. Every gm would take lebron start a franchise with over kobe in a heartbeat and it's not even close.

Kobe is only better at FT shooting when they're both in their primes.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm please kill your self

[amfirst]

I dissagree, Kobe is a much better shooting prior to the finger injury. He also had higher jumps and separation in his prime. He was playing 3 vs 1 night in and night out. He would toy with the defense if he had the same team he had today.

[LongLiveTheKing]

All in their primes
Lebron

Dwade/Kobe



Durant

[STATUTORY]

Kobe in his peak was more than just a physical menace. he also destroyed the psyches of teams he went up against. there's nothing more demoralizing than throwing a triple team at Kobe only to see him lit you up for 50

that psychological effect is difficult to quantify but it renders your opponents completely helpless. Peak Kobe would the most devastating force in this league right now.

[christian1923]

Right there with lebron. Ill take kobe though cause he was so clutch those years. Felt like he was hitting a game winner every week.

[kshutts1]

Coming late to this party..

Kobe and Lebron would be in discussion for top player in the league, and Durant would be a distant third (and he's currently a distant second).

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the Durant bandwagon.. dude is an average defender for his position, while peak Kobe and current Lebron were/are 1st Team All Defense. That's a huge, huge gap on one side of the ball, and in terms of scoring, both Kobe and Lebron can score nearly as effectively as, if not moreso (Lebron), Durant.

If Durant is a 9.5/10 in scoring (not offense as a whole, just scoring), then Kobe and Lebron have to be at least a 8.5 to a 9 AT WORST. While on D Durant is more like a 6/10 while Kobe and Lebron would be ranked 9+. Huge discrepancy there, folks

[Deuce Bigalow]

Coming late to this party..

Kobe and Lebron would be in discussion for top player in the league, and Durant would be a distant third (and he's currently a distant second).

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the Durant bandwagon.. dude is an average defender for his position, while peak Kobe and current Lebron were/are 1st Team All Defense. That's a huge, huge gap on one side of the ball, and in terms of scoring, both Kobe and Lebron can score nearly as effectively as, if not moreso (Lebron), Durant.

If Durant is a 9.5/10 in scoring (not offense as a whole, just scoring), then Kobe and Lebron have to be at least a 8.5 to a 9 AT WORST. While on D Durant is more like a 6/10 while Kobe and Lebron would be ranked 9+. Huge discrepancy there, folks
Let's not forget about playmaking. Durant is nowhere near Lebron and Kobe in that discussion.

[kshutts1]

Let's not forget about playmaking. Durant is nowhere near Lebron and Kobe in that discussion.

Agreed, and that's why I differentiated between scoring and offense.

Thanks for adding that

[EllisGW]

Name one thing besides ft shooting kobe does better in their primes?

people thinking a gm would pick kobe over lebron to start a franchise with if they both starting their careers lol

[LongLiveTheKing]

Dwade in his prime would rank over KD.

[EllisGW]

Agreed, and that's why I differentiated between scoring and offense.

Thanks for adding that


durant is not his prime yet and he is by far more efficient player than kobe.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Name one thing besides ft shooting kobe does better in their primes?

people thinking a gm would pick kobe over lebron to start a franchise with if they both starting their careers lol

Kobe is a better midrange/elbow shooter, better in the post and arguably the better man defender.

[EllisGW]

Kobe is a better midrange/elbow shooter, better in the post and arguably the better man defender.


check out his midrange shooting percentage in 2011 lebron was third behind ray allen and dirk. He also had better midrange shooting in 2012 .

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dwade in his prime would rank over KD.
Yeah, easily.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

check out his midrange shooting percentage in 2011 lebron was third behind ray allen and dirk. He also had better midrange shooting in 2012 .

2011 and 2012 isn't Kobe's prime.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

check out his midrange shooting percentage in 2011 lebron was third behind ray allen and dirk. He also had better midrange shooting in 2012 .

Lebron has improved his midrange game. No one is disputing that. Peak Kobe (2006-2008), given the volume, is just BETTER though.

[EllisGW]

Lebron has improved his midrange game. No one is disputing that. Peak Kobe (2006-2008), given the volume, is just BETTER though.


There is obviously a set they go by and lebron has passed that number. you cant blame lebron because he takes better shots. He still takes a significant number of midrange shots to judge the shooting between the two. There is no evidence that his shooting would drop lower than kobe if he shot same midrange jumpers.

[Mr. Jabbar]

#1, same as current Kobe.

[EllisGW]

2011 and 2012 isn't Kobe's prime.


lebron is still ahead of kobe in 2008 or 2007

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There is obviously a set they go by and lebron has passed that number. you cant blame lebron because he takes better shots.

What set is that? Statistically, Kobe is the better midrange shooter. Fact. And nobody is "blaming" Lebron for taking "better shots". You asked people to list what Kobe does better. :oldlol:

[Magic 32]

lebron is still ahead of kobe in 2008 or 2007

http://imageshack.us/a/img129/5844/facepalm.gif

[Smoke117]

Kobe would be closer to Durant than he would be Lebron. James would still pretty easily be the best player in the league. Besides, Kobe sucked shit defensively in 06 and 07 and the years you put up were 06-08. He kind of started playing somewhat consistent defense in 08, but he was crap defensively in 06 and 07. Regardless, his defense doesn't come close to Lebron James defense. Lebron is a game changer on the defensive end...Kobe isn't. Put that with what Lebron is doing now and he would still comfortably be the best player in the league.

[EllisGW]

What set is that? Statistically, Kobe is the better midrange shooter. Fact. And nobody is "blaming" Lebron for taking "better shots". You asked people to list what Kobe does better. :oldlol:


lebron midrange shooting the last two years were better than kobe in his prime

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lebron midrange shooting the last two years were better than kobe in his prime

2006-07 Kobe shot .481% from 10-16ft (midrange). Lebron, while close, hasn't been able to do that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2007/

[Riley Martin]

lebron midrange shooting the last two years were better than kobe in his prime
:facepalm

[tmacattack33]

I second the opinion that right now it's Lebron and a gap followed by Durant, and peak Kobe would be in that gap. Peak Kobe was much more of an all around player than current Durant is. I also would like to see what current Durant would be able to do without Westbrook.

[chazzy]

#2

[Heavincent]

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant

[KG215]

durant is not his prime yet and he is by far more efficient player than kobe.
Yes, Durant is in his prime. He's not at his peak yet, though.

As for this question, I'd still have current LeBron over peak Kobe, although it'd be very, very close. The level in which LeBron is playing at now, I don't think Kobe was every this good. Kobe would comfortably be 2nd, though, ahead of Durant. And if you wanted to tell me it'd be a 1a and 1b situation between LeBron and Kobe, I wouldn't argue.

[KG215]

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant
Shocking.

[EllisGW]

2006-07 Kobe shot .481% from 10-16ft (midrange). Lebron, while close, hasn't been able to do that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2007/


they both shot 48 at 27 when they entered their prime

[Riley Martin]

1. Kobe
2. Lebron
3. Durant

C'mon, be reasonable.

1A. Kobe (peak)
1B. LeBron (current)
2. Durant (current)

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

they both shot 48 at 27 when they entered their prime

:confusedshrug:

Statistically, Kobe in 2007 shot a HIGHER percentage than Lebron ever has.

[Heavincent]

1A. Kobe (peak)
1B. LeBron (current)
2. Durant (current)

That's fine.

[tmacattack33]

they both shot 48 at 27 when they entered their prime

When judging someone jump shot you can't use stats. I know Durants jump shooting percentage from like 17 to 22 feet last year was less than lebrons. But lebrons obviously not better at that range than Durant is. The percentage is probably due to defenders leaving him open at that range, whereas they would never give that shot to Durant in the same way

[KG215]

That's fine.
Care to explain how peak Kobe was better than current LeBron? Not saying I necessarily disagree, because it's debatable, but I'd love to actually get some insight from you for once.

[Rysio]

peak mamba was one of the most dominant scorers of all time. so dominant that he could've set on the bench on defensive possessions and still be by far the best player in the game. but he didnt he actually played dpoy type defense shutting down your favorite players on nightly basis. no amount of stat padding will ever put anyone on that level of dominance, sorry lebrick stans.

[Heavincent]

Care to explain how peak Kobe was better than current LeBron? Not saying I necessarily disagree, because it's debatable, but I'd love to actually get some insight from you for once.

I'm flattered my opinion means that much to you.

I'd say it sort of comes down to personal preference. Kobe's insane scoring vs Lebron's insane all around play. Would you rather have a guy who is always a triple double threat or a guy who's always a threat to score 50+? Some people would take the former. I'll take the latter though. I'd also say Kobe's scoring at his peak was more effective for closing games than Lebron's playmaking/facilitating. Not saying Lebron is a 4th quarter choker or anything, but Kobe really was the best closer in the game at his peak. Lebron is clearly the best player in the game right now, but I still think Durant has him beat when it comes to closing games.

And people act like Kobe was a rich man's Monte Ellis or something (a guy who could only score and did nothing else). Kobe has always been among the leaders for rebounds and assists for SG's and has always been a really good playmaker.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Forget '01, '03, and '06-'08. Durant is not as good as '08-'10 Playoff Kobe

Here were Kobe's series averages those 3 years:
34/5/6
33/7/7
29/6/4
26/5/5
27/5/6
27/5/4
34/6/6
32/6/7
24/4/4
32/4/6
34/7/8
29/8/4

11-1 series W-L
30/6/6 average
2x Champion
2x Finals MVP

[DMAVS41]

Peak Kobe would be the 2nd best player today. With Durant closing in, but current Durant is not as good overall as Kobe was.

Lebron is just better though. On both ends. Don't really see much of an argument in how any version of Kobe was as good as Lebron was last year and this year.

[LBJ 23]

And people act like Kobe was a rich man's Monte Ellis or something (a guy who could only score and did nothing else). Kobe has always been among the leaders for rebounds and assists for SG's and has always been a really good playmaker.


You're right on that one, but you also can't act like Lebron is only a triple double threat and that's all. He can also score a lot and with insane efficiency when his team needs him to, look at last year's playoffs against Indiana or Boston's game 6.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let's try something else. Not just one particular name but think about all the active names which is or was a superstar.


Think of the listed players at their absolute best;
PGs; Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo, Russell Westbrook, Chauncey Billups
SGs; Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Manu Ginobili, Jerry Stackhouse, James Harden
SFs; LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce, Grant Hill, Metta World Peace
BIGs; Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Amar'e Stoudemire, Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, Elton Brand, Blake Griffin, Jermaine O'Neal
Lebron/Kobe/Duncan
Wade/KG
Dirk
Durant
Nash/CP3

[Heavincent]

You're right on that one, but you also can't act like Lebron is only a triple double threat and that's all. He can also score a lot and with insane efficiency when his team needs him to, look at last year's playoffs against Indiana or Boston's game 6.

I wasn't trying to say he's a Rondo type of triple double guy. There's no doubt he's a great scorer.

There were also playoff series and games in which Kobe racked up a bunch of rebounds and assists. Both of them could do anything their team needed them to do.

[Dave3]

2006-07 Kobe shot .481% from 10-16ft (midrange). Lebron, while close, hasn't been able to do that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2007/
It could be what he meant by mid range. Now I definitely don't agree that LeBron is a better shooter than prime Kobe, but LeBron from 16-23 feet is shooting 44%, which according to basketball-reference, is higher than Kobe ever has. As for the 10-15 ft. range, he shot 48% last year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2012/)


So yeah, depends on is mid range to someone is 10-15 feet, or 16-23.

[Money 23]

Peak Kobe would be 1b to LeBron, and there is a sizable gap there between the next best (Durant) ...

[LakersFan626]

PEAK Kobe missed the playoffs. Can't imagine any other top 10 player doing that.

No. Peak Kobe was 06-08 (starting with 05-06 season, not 06-07), while PRIME Kobe was 01-10 (starting with 00-01). Big difference. LeBron's at his peak right now, while Durant's still in his early prime.

Peak Kobe would probably be equal with LeBron and Durant... the guy was soutscoring other teams at times and a lot of the time had more points than the rest of his teammates COMBINED. No matter which way you look at it, it's impressive.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It could be what he meant by mid range. Now I definitely don't agree that LeBron is a better shooter than prime Kobe, but LeBron from 16-23 feet is shooting 44%, which according to basketball-reference, is higher than Kobe ever has. As for the 10-15 ft. range, he shot 48% last year (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/shooting/2012/)


So yeah, depends on is mid range to someone is 10-15 feet, or 16-23.

I consider 10-16ft mid and 16-3PT long range. I can see why there would be confusion though.

As for Lebron shooting 44% from 16 and beyond - you gotta take into account attempts. Kobe attempted damn near 400+ more shots from that range in 2006 AND 2007.

I've always said '12 (and current) Lebron is/was a better ALL AROUND player than Kobe EVER was ... but from midrange? No way.

[Dave3]

I consider 10-16ft mid and 16-3PT long range. I can see why there would be confusion though.

As for Lebron shooting 44% from 16 and beyond - you gotta take into account attempts. Kobe attempted damn near 400+ more shots from that range in 2006 AND 2007.

I've always said '12 (and current) Lebron is/was a better ALL AROUND player than Kobe EVER was ... but from midrange? No way.
Can't disagree there.

[Lord Leoshes]

Peek Kobe would be better offensively, but his biggest attributes would be his speed, athleticism, & most importantly his lockdown defense would be back & that's what makes a great player into a superstar player.

I would say he would pass Durant, & be heads, to head with LeBron with players like Wade, & Paul several steps behind. Unless Wade was also in his prime, & then Wade would be snipping on Kobe's heals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

PEAK Kobe missed the playoffs. Can't imagine any other top 10 player doing that.
Kareem missed the playoffs twice in his prime during the '75 & '76 seasons
Wilt missed the playoffs in his peak during the '63 season
Hakeem missed the playoffs in his prime during the '92 season

Also 2004-05 was not Kobe's peak.

[G-Funk]

Half the world would go with Bron the other half for Kobe

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Some of you guys are seriously letting the nostalgia get the better of you. People never give current players the props they deserve. IF James keeps up this level for the rest of the season and ups his game in the playoffs, i seriously think he has a case for GOAT single season peak. Right in the convo with '00 shaq and '91 Jordan.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

No. Peak Kobe was 06-08 (starting with 05-06 season, not 06-07), while PRIME Kobe was 01-10 (starting with 00-01). Big difference. LeBron's at his peak right now, while Durant's still in his early prime.

Peak Kobe would probably be equal with LeBron and Durant... the guy was soutscoring other teams at times and a lot of the time had more points than the rest of his teammates COMBINED. No matter which way you look at it, it's impressive.
Likely he is, but you don't know that. He'll only be 29 next year so no significant athletic decline but it's hard to imagine him playing any better.

[alleykat]

Half the world would go with Bron the other half for Kobe

yezzir

[game3524]

Peak Kobe would be 1B to Lebron.

Kobe put up 35 ppg on 55 TS with guys like Parker and Brown in the lineup. 34 year old Kobe is having his most efficient season since his MVP year, now imagine what 27-28 Kobe would do when he would be playing with Nash, Pau, and Dwight.

IMO, he would average 33-6-6 on 58-59 TS% and while also being one of the best on ball defenders.

1A Lebron
1B Kobe


2 Durant

[Micku]

2006-07 Kobe shot .481% from 10-16ft (midrange). Lebron, while close, hasn't been able to do that.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2007/

That wasn't his best year either. He had years where he did hit 50% or above.

His best year was 2011 where he shot 51.2% from the field. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2011/



I consider 10-16ft mid and 16-3PT long range. I can see why there would be confusion though.

As for Lebron shooting 44% from 16 and beyond - you gotta take into account attempts. Kobe attempted damn near 400+ more shots from that range in 2006 AND 2007.

I've always said '12 (and current) Lebron is/was a better ALL AROUND player than Kobe EVER was ... but from midrange? No way.

I disagree. Why would you not consider that midrange? Anything that's probably outside the paint and below the 3pt line is midrange. Whatever it's long or short imo.

And part of the reason why Kobe took more shots there is because he takes more shots than LeBron overall. Kobe shot more attempts than Durant, he isn't better really better than Durant except at the long midrange ball. LBJ at this stage of his career is a really good midrange shooter. He is better at one area of the floor than Kobe, but he isn't better than Kobe overall at the midrange.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

That wasn't his best year either. He had years where he did hit 50% or above.

His best year was 2011 where he shot 51.2% from the field. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/shooting/2011/



I disagree. Why would you not consider that midrange? Anything that's probably outside the paint and below the 3pt line is midrange. Whatever it's long or short imo.

And part of the reason why Kobe took more shots there is because he takes more shots than LeBron overall. Kobe shot more attempts than Durant, he isn't better really better than Durant except at the long midrange ball. LBJ at this stage of his career is a really good midrange shooter. He is better at one area of the floor than Kobe, but he isn't better than Kobe overall at the midrange.

One thing i noticed about lebron's jumper is that it's almost always on line just too strong or short. That's probably why he has insane range.

[lilgodfather1]

He'd be ahead of Durant this year. LeBron's just too good to be compared to a poor mans MJ.

[Simple Jack]

Did people already forget how good Kobe was at his peak?

Saying Durant would be considered the better player is simply ignoring or not understanding the level of play of peak Kobe.

He was an elite two way player who could score at will, against anyone in the league. He was an exponentially better playmaker than Durant is right now as well.

With that said, I don't think he would be considered better than current LeBron (or Bron from '09 until now for that matter; 11 is arguable).

It would be:
1. LeBron
2. Kobe

3. Durant

[NumberSix]

Did people already forget how good Kobe was at his peak?

Saying Durant would be considered the better player is simply ignoring or not understanding the level of play of peak Kobe.

He was an elite two way player who could score at will, against anyone in the league. He was an exponentially better playmaker than Durant is right now as well.

With that said, I don't think he would be considered better than current LeBron (or Bron from '09 until now for that matter; 11 is arguable).

It would be:
1. LeBron
2. Kobe

3. Durant
How the fuc would Durant be #3? That would imply he's currently #2.

[Simple Jack]

How the fuc would Durant be #3? That would imply he's currently #2.

Because he is very clearly #2 right now?

[DMAVS41]

I agree that peak Kobe was better than current Durant, but I hope people aren't overlooking how great Durant already is now.

He is having a historic season.

29/8/5 on 52/43/91

That is absurd...

[tazb]

He would obviously be leading the league in scoring (with the amount of chucking he does, but only shooting like 45% as usual) but his overall team record would be like 8th seed at best.

[gengiskhan]

I agree that peak Kobe was better than current Durant, but I hope people aren't overlooking how great Durant already is now.

He is having a historic season.

29/8/5 on 52/43/91

That is absurd...

Biggest f'ing joke!

Peak kobe was shooting 46%FG. Peak kobe or young kobe, both OVERRATED 6'6" versions of Allen Iverson have PI5S poor shot selection.

Current Durant > Peak Kobe.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Biggest f'ing joke!

Peak kobe was shooting 46%FG. Peak kobe or young kobe, both OVERRATED 6'6" versions of Allen Iverson have PI5S poor shot selection.

Current Durant > Peak Kobe.
Durant is a better pure scorer imo but peak Kobe was a terrific defender and playmaker.

[gengiskhan]

Durant is a better pure scorer imo but peak Kobe was a terrific defender and playmaker.

Not terrific but a good to very good defender


Playmaker. :lol :lol The guy who tells his team mates "pass? what pass? just get the rebound!" is was a terrific playmaker.

come on man.

Kobe is a 6'6" iversion who can play solid defense without AI's ability to lead league in steals.

Durant is still > than peak Kobe because of much better SHOT SELECTION. Some thing peak kobe like AI seriously LACKED

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Not terrific but a good to very good defender


Playmaker. :lol :lol The guy who tells his team mates "pass? what pass? just get the rebound!" is was a terrific playmaker.

come on man.

Kobe is a 6'6" iversion who can play solid defense without AI's ability to lead league in steals.

Durant is still > than peak Kobe because of much better SHOT SELECTION. Some thing peak kobe like AI seriously LACKED

Kobe was still a much better defender than current durant.

it would be like this:

Lebron

Kobe

Durant
Paul
etc..

[SyRyanYang]

Not terrific but a good to very good defender


Playmaker. :lol :lol The guy who tells his team mates "pass? what pass? just get the rebound!" is was a terrific playmaker.

come on man.

Kobe is a 6'6" iversion who can play solid defense without AI's ability to lead league in steals.

Durant is still > than peak Kobe because of much better SHOT SELECTION. Some thing peak kobe like AI seriously LACKED

I thought that was a fan-made meme:confusedshrug:

[talkingconch]

I thought that was a fan-made meme:confusedshrug:
it was :facepalm