wade with a revealing quote about the changing mentality of NBA players

[STATUTORY]

[QUOTE]"We

[red1]

kobe wouldnt even dream of shooting 50%

[red1]

efficiency helps you win ball games dumbass :lol

[Clutch]

Pleasure of taking 30+ shots >>>> pleasure of shooting 50% on 10 shots

:lol

[blablabla]

efficiency helps you win ball games dumbass :lol
i don't think its great that your star players are hesitant to shoot because they are worried about their percentage

[red1]

6-24? just another day in the office

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/laughing.jpg

[STATUTORY]

efficiency helps you win ball games dumbass :lol
years that the PER leader has won the championship?

[red1]

i don't think its great that your star players are hesitant to shoot because they are worried about their percentage
You see, that right there is the story that op is trying to fabricate. I have dealt with this f*gg*t before so I know his ways. I have never seen dwade "scared to shoot because he wants to protect his percentage."

[red1]

years that the PER leader has won the championship?
Lebron is a smarter player than kobe. Better player too. No troll

[selrahc]

if you notice, lebron will never shoot the ball at the end of the first three quarters to save his fg%. he will get the ball and there will be like 2 sec left he will never shoot it. he will just let the time run out because he doesnt want to shoot a low percentage shot, even if there is a chance it could put his team up by more.

if lebron didnt play to save his fg% he would be shooting 45% probably.

[SCdac]

Players have probably been fully cognizant of their stats and efficiency for decades. I don't put much stock into this being something new.

[RRR3]

Why is this clown pretending to be a Wade fan still? Answer this, OP, don't be a coward. And change your avatar and title to something about Kobe. Much more appropriate.




































http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[STATUTORY]

Players have probably been fully cognizant of their stats and efficiency for decades. I don't put much stock into this being something new.
I fully agree players have always been cognizant of stats

but it's which stats are considered important that have changed. in early 2000s it was just about PPG hence you had a wealth of volume shooters

now it's all about efficiency. so all the players now try to have high fg% and volume shooting is considered outmoded and relegated.


Why is this clown pretending to be a Wade fan still? Answer this, OP, don't be a coward. And change your avatar and title to something about Kobe. Much more appropriate.


no

[AlphaWolf24]

3rd option on a stacked team should shoot a high FG%.....:confusedshrug:

Wade has now become a Byron Scott level player on the Showtime Lakers.

[Rysio]

nba is a joke these days. most these clowns rather shoot 50% in a season than tp win a ring. :facepalm

[jlip]

News flash:
Players have ALWAYS cared about stats. Wilt was often conscious of his stats. Kareem was very upset that Jerry West was awarded the '70 scoring title because of the change from totals to per game. Magic and Bird admitted that they would get up the next morning and look at the paper for each others' stats just to see who was doing better. MJ was found checking the scorer's table in the middle of games just to see how close he was to triple doubles. What D Wade and Lebron are doing is nothing new whatsoever. Plus an awareness of fg% has nothing to do with Hollinger's popularization of advanced stats. FG% has been recorded for decades and several players across the generations have been aware of their shooting efficiency.

[jlip]

Players have probably been fully cognizant of their stats and efficiency for decades. I don't put much stock into this being something new.

Beat me to it.

[nightprowler10]

I think this is a good thread topic. I mean sure, good efficiency usually equals better production, but players can get obsessed with those numbers too much. I've certainly seen it happen in cricket where certain players will get tied up playing for their average or personal milestones and settling for a drawn match instead of a win for their team. In basketball that can translate into holding off from taking that tough last second shot instead of passing the ball to a lesser shooter.

The best way to use these statistics is to modify your game so you naturally achieve good %ages instead of forcing the issue, which I'm sure is easier said than done.

[STATUTORY]

News flash:
Players have ALWAYS cared about stats. Wilt was often conscious of his stats. Kareem was very upset that Jerry West was awarded the '70 scoring title because of the change from totals to per game. Magic and Bird admitted that they would get up the next morning and look at the paper for each others' stats just to see who was doing better. MJ was found checking the scorer's table in the middle of games just to see how close he was to triple doubles. What D Wade and Lebron are doing is nothing new whatsoever. Plus an awareness of fg% has nothing to do with Hollinger's popularization of advanced stats. FG% has been recorded for decades and several players across the generations have been aware of their shooting efficiency.

Again I'm not protesting that players have always cared about stats, in fact that's the genesis of this thread. You can't tell me that any point in NBA history has efficiency stats being emphasized and glorified the way it is now. This elevation of efficiency stats has had a real impact on players play the game. Players always play based on what is valued by the general public and now that's efficiency.

[SCdac]

I fully agree players have always been cognizant of stats

but it's which stats are considered important that have changed. in early 2000s it was just about PPG hence you had a wealth of volume shooters

now it's all about efficiency. so all the players now try to have high fg% and volume shooting is considered outmoded and relegated.

I don't believe that at all. I think we just have two players who have matured, are going on their 10th season, and see their all-time rank rising (see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak).

I doubt young Derrick Rose in mid-game was sacrificing his opportunities for the sake of FG efficiency. Maybe to get a better shot within the offense, but not for individual gain.

Like Lebron, I see all of this as more of a young vs. old thing...

[quote][B]

[clayton]

It also means they're looking for the best looking high % shot as possible. This is better than fading over 2 defenders...

[red1]

statutory please stop failing and taking losses I am starting to feel sorry for you and I dont like that feeling

[JellyBean]

It is telling. Today's players are more worried about looking good on paper (stat sheets).

[Rake2204]

I think this is a good thread topic. I mean sure, good efficiency usually equals better production, but players can get obsessed with those numbers too much. I've certainly seen it happen in cricket where certain players will get tied up playing for their average or personal milestones and settling for a drawn match instead of a win for their team. In basketball that can translate into holding off from taking that tough last second shot instead of passing the ball to a lesser shooter.

The best way to use these statistics is to modify your game so you naturally achieve good %ages instead of forcing the issue, which I'm sure is easier said than done.I am in agreement with you. Like most topics, I think there's two sides to this story. All players obviously cannot be so choosy that they only opt to shoot when it's a wide open dunk. On the flip side, they also can't opt to shoot every single time down the floor.

The entire game of basketball consists of finding the right mix. Flat out chasing a points per game average without at least kind of taking efficiency into account would be and always has been very misguided. I had a teammate who seemed to be chasing a points quota my sophomore year. He took 70 more shots than anyone else on the team and shot at a 27% clip. It wasn't pretty.

Again though, on the other hand, if players are constantly thinking about their running field goal percentage, I can see how that'd be a detriment as well. I'd say the best goal would be to worry about taking good shots, period. If a player's taking shots that are of the highest quality for their team on a given possession, they should not worry about a thing. But if they're just out there firing up terrible shots because "that's how they play", then yes, a change might be in order.

[BlueandGold]

6-24? just another day in the office

http://lakernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/laughing.jpg
You still mad that boston lost?

[PJR]

Yeah, being efficient and maximizing possesions on a consistent basis. Why would any player want to do that?

[Mr. NBA]

Man ill take Lebron pull up jumper over a defender than UD 20 foot open jumper. Ill take a Kobe fadeaway over a defender than an open 3 from Blake. Some things you give and take. Casual fans dont care about stats. They see W or L. The hardcore fans are the ones that nitpick that stuff which causes debates all over threads. If Kobe bricks a gamewinner over a defender we say bad shot, Lebron would have found a better shot. If Lebron passes a game winner opportunity, we say Kobe will never pass that up. If Kobe hits a gamewinner we go all hail clutchbe. If Lebron hits a gamewinner we say lucky shot.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Proof those guys in miami are nothing but clowns. Kobe please, never retire, use robotic limbs or w/e it takes, we want true winners out there.

[ripthekik]

red1 all over this thread trying to defend lebron and wade, slurping their coock :roll: :roll: :roll:

[red1]

You still mad that boston lost?
Buck foston that series was a LOL for me. I am just saying that kobe has a chucker mentality and OP is trying to act like that is superior to having an efficiency mentality

[red1]

red1 all over this thread trying to defend lebron and wade, slurping their coock :roll: :roll: :roll:
How did the 2012 playoffs feel f*ckboy? Now that they won together you lost all of your weak ammo.

Deal with it


http://0-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/sp/image/1339/57/1339570894296.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

It is telling. Today's players are more worried about looking good on paper (stat sheets).
where as Kobe is more worried about looking good on ESPN (highlights)

[ripthekik]

Wade and Lebron are the type that won't toss a half court shot at the end of the quarter just to protect their FG%. Kobe will, because he's not a puussy that cares about stats, and he'll do anything to give his team an advantage.

and in other news, red1 continues to slurp that juice off bron's diick :oldlol:

[red1]

enough with your homoerotic imagery keep that shit inside your mind next time

[SCdac]

I am in agreement with you. Like most topics, I think there's two sides to this story. All players obviously cannot be so choosy that they only opt to shoot when it's a wide open dunk. On the flip side, they also can't opt to shoot every single time down the floor.

The entire game of basketball consists of finding the right mix. Flat out chasing a points per game average without at least kind of taking efficiency into account would be and always has been very misguided. I had a teammate who seemed to be chasing a points quota my sophomore year. He took 70 more shots than anyone else on the team and shot at a 27% clip. It wasn't pretty.

Again though, on the other hand, if players are constantly thinking about their running field goal percentage, I can see how that'd be a detriment as well. I'd say the best goal would be to worry about taking good shots, period. If a player's taking shots that are of the highest quality for their team on a given possession, they should not worry about a thing. But if they're just out there firing up terrible shots because "that's how they play", then yes, a change might be in order.

Agreed... especially with the bolded.

And some players rise from average to All-Stars once they start doing this.

A prime example is Tony Parker.

His first few years in the league, he was attempting a large amount of three pointers (trigger happy). And it wasn't always pretty because he had a faulty jump shot.

01-02: 2.5... 9.2 ppg (.42 FG%)
02-03: 3.0... 15.5 ppg (.46 FG%)
03-04: 2.7... 14.7 ppg (.45 FG%)
04-05: 2.0... 16.6 ppg (.48 FG%)

Then, in 2006, he stopped taking three's (in part due to Pop's orders), he became the most efficient PG in the league, one of the best finishers of all positions, and it opened things up for the Spurs shooters (as defenders collapsed on Parker).

05-06: 0.5... 18.9 ppg (.55 FG%)... first AS appearance
06-07: 0.5... 18.6 ppg (.52 FG%)... second AS appearance... Finals MVP.

Since then, Parker has been living in the paint and been the PG we pretty much all recognize today as efficient and taking the best shots for himself and the team. He's taken no where close to 3 three's a game since his sophomore season. At that time of his improvement, 05-07, Parker was also working with Chip Engelland to revamp his jumper, and it helped immensely (see: 07 playoffs). Nowadays, Parker's jumper is solid, but it took discipline and hard work.

[VIP2000]

Wade and Lebron are the type that won't toss a half court shot at the end of the quarter just to protect their FG%. Kobe will, because he's not a puussy that cares about stats, and he'll do anything to give his team an advantage.

and in other news, red1 continues to slurp that juice off bron's diick :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A player that wants to take efficient shots within the context of an offense ... Wow, what an idiot. :rolleyes:

[RRR3]

LeBron and Wade are winning games, and are the defending champions. Just saying, whatever they are doing is working so idiots need to stop acting like they're hurting their team or some bullshit.

[Jolokia]

I'm pretty sure Kobe thinks he can hit 100% of the shots he takes. Doesn't know when to stop shooting fadeaways.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron and Wade are winning games, and are the defending champions. Just saying, whatever they are doing is working so idiots need to stop acting like they're hurting their team or some bullshit.

Yep.

[fpliii]

This is nothing new to locker rooms. How many times have we heard about guys competing for most points, rebounds, steals, or fewest turnovers etc. As long as it's not taking away from the team/game it's fine (throwing it up at the end of quarters isn't important, but if they're preserving FG% late in games and passing up the best possible look, that's something else).

[red1]

LeBron and Wade are winning games, and are the defending champions. Just saying, whatever they are doing is working so idiots need to stop acting like they're hurting their team or some bullshit.
last year all they would ever come with was "I dont like lbj and dwade so I am going to whine about something and then say that they dont have what it takes to win for that reason"



this year "I still dont like them so I am still going to whine and be irrational"

newsflash if your stars prioritize efficiency then your team is in good hands

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/06/22/miami-heat-lebron-james-nba-championship/wade-james-story-getty.jpg
http://sciencewitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Dwayne-Wade-Lebron-James.jpg

[ripthekik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc
both videos from before they joined the heat and started acting like puussies :roll:

wade back then was the dude who single handedly won the championship. Bron wasn't the guy who had to join a star stacked team because he couldnt do it himself yet.

[red1]

both videos from before they joined the heat and started acting like puussies :roll:

wade back then was the dude who single handedly won the championship. Bron wasn't the guy who had to join a star stacked team because he couldnt do it himself yet.
deal with it :oldlol:

[longtime lurker]

Lol players these days are so mentally weak. WTF like who cares about stats. Couldn't imagine a guy like Jordan or Bird saying this shit.

[PJR]

Lol players these days are so mentally weak. WTF like who cares about stats. Couldn't imagine a guy like Jordan or Bird saying this shit.

Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:

[DMV2]

WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm

[Nick Young]

stats padding shits, basically both he and lebron admitting to the reason of not shooting last second end of quarter fullcourt chucks to pad their percentages.

[Nick Young]

if you notice, lebron will never shoot the ball at the end of the first three quarters to save his fg%. he will get the ball and there will be like 2 sec left he will never shoot it. he will just let the time run out because he doesnt want to shoot a low percentage shot, even if there is a chance it could put his team up by more.

if lebron didnt play to save his fg% he would be shooting 45% probably.
There have been hundreds of threads on this.

[Money 23]

Good thread, from a SMART poster in disguise as a troll. ... Start posting up to your potential consistently, ph-aggot.

A few comments. This speaks to a change in basketball approach and intelligence from the game's top stars. Not necessarily positive in all cases.

The immediate post MJ generation tried to fill his shoes with volume scoring on worse percentages (Iverson and Kobe) ... it also coincided with the most depressed offensive era. Limited possessions, slower pace, influx of HS players, loss of basketball intelligence, skills and defined offensive roles. The era of the combo guard emerged (Iverson, B Diddy, Francis, Marbury)

Kobe on one hand can be respected for his no phucks given attitude when it comes to shot selection and FGA amount. But it also kills his team at times with loss of possessions on bad shots.

LeBron / Wade's generation emphasis a John Hollinger approach of better efficiency. On the surface, this is awesome. When perimeter players are shooting closer to 50%, that means their averages of PPG are closer to their caliber of scorer. It's ideal.

BUT ... when you're sacrificing game changing shots, however incremental in order to keep a 50% fg percentage, handing the ball off to lesser players (LeBron) to keep your stats clean, or dribbling out shot clocks. You're sacrificing potential game winning shots. I don't appreciate that. There is something seedy about that in which you're undermining true competitive spirit.

The ideal scenario is if you combine the two mentalities of Kobe's generation and LeBron's generation. Maximized individual talent, while getting other's involved, and not sacrificing game altering shots for ideal streamlined percentages.

Basically, be the Jordan / Bird / Magic type. Assert your individual dominance within a championship team framework. Don't be afraid to maximize your individual output, such as by not shooting certain shots, but also don't over due at the expense of loss of possession or alienating teammates "in order to get yours" or "do you" (Kobe mentality)

There is a balance that needs to be met. But it's interesting to think about, and essentially why both generation defining talents (Kobe, LeBron, Wade) have at some point or another turned me off as an individual fan, where it gets me thinking about what their problem is and why I find their either competitiveness or basketball philosophy all kinds of messed up.

Side note, there is clear generational gap and resentment between Kobe and the LeBron / Wade camp. I constantly see subliminal shots at the other over the past 3 - 4 years. And it at times has even gotten physical on the court.

Last game I saw Kobe and Wade getting physical on the block a few times. There is definitely resentment on both sides. This comment is an extension of that beef.

[longtime lurker]

Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:

So you mean to tell me only players that shoot over 50% should be taking shots? This is retarded unless you can show me that Bird and Jordan shot over 50% every game(you can't) your post is pretty much pointless. I'm sure Larry Bird who's a career playoff 47% and Jordan who's a career 48% playoff shooter agree with your dumbass.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebron is a smarter player than kobe. Better player too. No troll
When he plays a real defense that knows how to stop him gets exposed. I'll take Kobe vs any defense. 18 ppg vs the ****ing mavericks while a bench player out scores you. Are you kidding me? Better player? At protecting his FG% yes.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Jordan and Bird routinely shot 50% or better in their prime, buddy. Pretty certain they endorse the mentality. :oldlol:
Neither shot 50% vs elite defenses.

[red1]

When he plays a real defense that knows how to stop him gets exposed. I'll take Kobe vs any defense. 18 ppg vs the ****ing mavericks while a bench player out scores you. Are you kidding me? Better player? At protecting his FG% yes.
lbj is clearly better than kobe and it only becomes more obvious as the years go by

[Clifton]

nba is a joke these days. most these clowns rather shoot 50% in a season than tp win a ring.
Good try but no, there are 0 players like that, in fact.

In the 80s and 90s, players were conscious of team stats only. And that stat usually was: amount of points scored, the goal being that your team would have more. That is what Larry and Magic were thinking about, whether it meant they put up 40 points or 20.

In the 00s, players were conscious of how many points they were scoring.

And now, players are conscious of their efficiency. I prefer the 80s/90s attitude of wanting to shut down the other team and score however possible, but surely this is an improvement on the "how many points do I have" attitude of the 00s that still drives Kobe (and no one else, it seems).

As for the point someone made about Lebron not throwing up halfcourt shots: I tend to agree with you about that. It does show a bit more of a concern for stats than you want. On the other hand, there is something undignified about a desperate heave. I don't think it's so much protecting his %s as intimidation and posturing. There are certain things Lebron does to set himself above the rest of the league and that's one of them. I don't think it's a bad thing. Of course Magic was never afraid to throw up a halfcourt heave... but different players beat you different ways. The theory of Lebron as stat padder, overall, does not add up. He's sat too many 4th quarters. If he's a rebound or assist shy of a triple double you won't see him trying to force that stat.

[ZaaaaaH]

New Era Chumps love stats and this is hurting the game. Elite players plays of instincts and feel especially in Basketball when it comes to Scoring. GTFO here with New Era kids being Coached like Bots these days and getting these stat geeks brain washed thinking only efficiency will win you games. :facepalm

[Money 23]

Both generational mentalities suck. Kobe and his obsession with comparing himself to the MJ standard, trying to volume score to the tune of 30 ppg (ppg being his focus) on worse percentages and at the expense of his teammates, chemistry, and winning games (wants the appearance of winning, but only on his terms)

And the LeBron / Wade generation playing for EFFICIENCY numbers is just as bad. Passing up shots to lesser players in order to save efficiency stats, but could be game changing shots that provide momentum to wins.

Wade / Durant playing at times for the whistle instead of the bucket.

A player should just go out and BALL and let the PPG / FG% chips fall where they may. Thank god there is still old school cats like Derrick Rose who pop up here and there.

The goal is to lead teams to wins, by ANY means necessary. Just get BUCKETS.

[NumberSix]

Wow, Wade and LeBron don't take retarded shots on purpose? Who would have thought?

[Deuce Bigalow]

lbj is clearly better than kobe and it only becomes more obvious as the years go by
Yeah

Chris Bosh - 18.5 ppg
Jason Terry - 18.0 ppg
Lebron James - 17.8 ppg

And keep in mind that the Mavs were one of the greatest defensive team of all-time...

[Money 23]

Wow, Wade and LeBron don't take retarded shots on purpose? Who would have thought?
They also pass up game changing shots that can bring momentum to wins in order to protect their FG%

Just as bad as Kobe or Iverson gunning for selfish 30 ppg numbers. The numbers is the focus, and not the wins.

Get Wade and Bron's ====D out your mouth, and look at the root of each player / generational philosophy and see that it's the same thing.

[chips93]

WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm

he learned to adapt

young wade's recklessness worked because of young wade's athleticism.

he doesnt have that same explosiveness, and hes changed his game/mentality accordingly

[LebronairJAMES]

if you notice, lebron will never shoot the ball at the end of the first three quarters to save his fg%. he will get the ball and there will be like 2 sec left he will never shoot it. he will just let the time run out because he doesnt want to shoot a low percentage shot, even if there is a chance it could put his team up by more.

if lebron didnt play to save his fg% he would be shooting 45% probably.
Your one dumb m0ther fuker

[red1]

Yeah

Chris Bosh - 18.5 ppg
Jason Terry - 18.0 ppg
Lebron James - 17.8 ppg

And keep in mind that the Mavs were one of the greatest defensive team of all-time...
deep down you know it's true :pimp:

[sick_brah07]

WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm

when did he ever have street hunger? he wears the gayest metro shit .... he dont look like rocky balboa to me

[Deuce Bigalow]

deep down you know it's true :pimp:
Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.

[Money 23]

Wade is a team player. He sacrificed his own individual game (even with some injuries and regression) in order to pump Bron up, establish harmonious team hierarchy and allow the Heat to win well into the next few years.

Maybe Wade realized the problem was mentality from Bron and how soft he was mentally and emotionally when in the 2011 Finals he couldn't take Wade getting the shine over him on his own team.

Either way, he's still got ability, even given regression. Yes he plays like a punk ass for the foul instead of the basket now, and yes the clothes and hoe like attitude since Bron came to town have been off putting. But I will be damned if people don't show this all-time great the level of respect he deserves. What he did for Miami last year and this year is going criminally unnoticed. And Bron refuses to even acknowledge it, the way at least MJ in the 2nd three peat gave Pip props.

[red1]

Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.
denial is a muhf*cka. dont resist just accept the truth :pimp:

[RRR3]

Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.
Are we still pretending that LeBron can't shoot? Really? Pretty pathetic.

[LebronairJAMES]

Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.
The pain runs deep in this loser :roll:

[CavaliersFTW]

WTF happened to Wade? Dude used to be a stone cold killer. Now all he does is kiss LeBron ass, or defend him every chance he gets.

Through out his career, Wade didn't seem like he was playing to reserve certain stats. He was reckless on the floor but in an effective way.

Now Wade lost that street hunger. :facepalm

Street hunger Wade circa 2005: A simple hoodie, no HGH jaw - 0 rings, very ring hungry and competitive, still has heart
http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1007/rare.chris.bosh.photos/images/wilson-erving-wade-bosh.jpg


Sellout washed up Wade present day: 2 rings, carried by refs one year Lebron another after he convinced his competition to join him so both rings were "given" not earned, years of HGH built up bone and tissue in his jaw and he's so heavy (235lbs... 7 footer David Robinson's former playing weight) it's now actually robbing him of health, flexibility and athleticism. Since his old opponents joined him and since rings are "given" now a days he simply doesn't have to work as hard anymore. His style went from simple hoodies to glasses w/o lenses and pink pants
http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/4fcf701a6bb3f72860000000/dwyane-wade.jpg
http://rollingout.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nba_g_wade_b1_400.jpeg

It's time for this guy to retire.

[STATUTORY]

They also pass up game changing shots that can bring momentum to wins in order to protect their FG%

real ass post. That's what stopped Lebron against the mavs and against the celtics. Fear.



Street hunger Wade circa 2005: A simple hoodie, no HGH jaw - 0 rings, very ring hungry and competitive, still has heart


I can't believe wade use to look like that. reminds me of my young cousin. ain't no trace of chitown left in that guy. :facepalm

[Burgz V2]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.

why deal with hypotheticals? There is no way of knowing. The only reason anyone would create a hypothetical situation to put a player in would be to escape the current reality

Kobe is not an efficient player. Reality.

Kobe is a high volume scorer. Reality.

Kobe shooting 50%? Keep dreaming.

I'm sorry but efficiency didn't ALL OF A SUDDEN matter in the NBA, it has always mattered. I don't need Hollinger to come up with the above conclusions. You take a lot of bad shots, that makes you INEFFICIENT. PERIOD.

[keepinitreal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoU6xyXTm9Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c_d7vBY3zc

It's impossible............... to get that shot off..........:oldlol:

[tmacattack33]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.

LOL.

Okay...well then wow, if Jordan entered in 2006 and had that mentality he could have put up a 65 FG% !

...as well as Penny, Grant Hill, Bird, Magic, Jerry West, etc

[Burgz V2]

Deep down I know that when teams don't allow Lebron to have easy dunks/layups he will get exposed. We have already witnessed that a couple of times.

:coleman:

[Deuce Bigalow]

why deal with hypotheticals? There is no way of knowing. The only reason anyone would create a hypothetical situation to put a player in would be to escape the current reality

Kobe is not an efficient player. Reality.

Kobe is a high volume scorer. Reality.

Kobe shooting 50%? Keep dreaming.

I'm sorry but efficiency didn't ALL OF A SUDDEN matter in the NBA, it has always mattered. I don't need Hollinger to come up with the above conclusions. You take a lot of bad shots, that makes you INEFFICIENT. PERIOD.
Jordan's TS% is 1.4 higher than Kobe's. Jordan's PPS is 0.015 higher than Kobe's.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Jordan's TS% is 1.4 higher than Kobe's. Jordan's PPS is 0.015 higher than Kobe's.

What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?

[Papaya Petee]

Insecure Kobe homers hating what a surprise :lol Yes LeBron and Wade are sacrificing games because they wanna be efficient:lol They're not both champions and all time greats or anything.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?


Michael Jordan FG% 49.7% eFG% 51% PER: 28

Kobe Bryant FG% 45.5% eFG% 49% PER: 24


Those are Kobe's FG% eFG% & PER when compared to the best basketball player of all time.

Not bad at all :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

What about his FG/eFG% and Player Efficiency Rating?
2.2 eFG% difference.

[Real Men Wear Green]

And now we criticize players for practicing good shot selection.:rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Michael Jordan FG% 49.7% eFG% 51% PER: 28

Kobe Bryant FG% 45.5% eFG% 49% PER: 24


Those are Kobe's FG% eFG% & PER when compared to the best basketball player of all time.

Not bad at all :confusedshrug:

Not bad at all, I just wanted a more comprehensive comparison.

:cheers:

[guy]

Well, it's not like they'll run out the shot clock if they don't have a good shot to take and it's not like they aren't winning more games then most other teams. It would be one thing if they were losing and doing this like they probably would've when they were playing without each other but that's not the case.

[gengiskhan]

Michael Jordan FG% 49.7% eFG% 51% PER: 28

Kobe Bryant FG% 45.5% eFG% 49% PER: 24


Those are Kobe's FG% eFG% & PER when compared to the best basketball player of all time.

Not bad at all :confusedshrug:

did you taken into consideration. No Defensive era. zone defense which is all a joke compared to physical D MJ played against in the '90s.

Kobe wont cross 42%FG shooting had he played in late '80s early to mid '90s.

[STATUTORY]

did you taken into consideration. No Defensive era. zone defense which is all a joke compared to physical D MJ played against in the '90s.

Kobe wont cross 42%FG shooting had he played in late '80s early to mid '90s.

:facepalm no left hand drexler was able to shoot 500% in the 80s and Kobe wouldn't be able to?

:rolleyes: u ****ing MJ stans sicken me. u really do

[DonDadda59]

Why are people making a big deal out of this? :confusedshrug:

Players and teams set goals and thresholds for themselves for seasons/series. Like I know Mike Woodson set the goal for the Knicks' turnovers cut off for games at 13- every time they go over, the team runs sprints in the next practice. The Knicks have gone from the second to worst TO team last year (16 TPG) to the best this season(11 TPG). Wade and Lebron have just done the same for their personal performance, they've set high standards for their play. We've seen/are seeing the results of them striving to live up to a higher standard.

[Deuce Bigalow]

did you taken into consideration. No Defensive era. zone defense which is all a joke compared to physical D MJ played against in the '90s.

Kobe wont cross 42%FG shooting had he played in late '80s early to mid '90s.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

The 00's decade had a lower TS%, eFG%, PPS, and O/DRtg than the 80's and 90's decades.

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287094

[DonDadda59]

:facepalm no left hand drexler was able to shoot 500% in the 80s and Kobe wouldn't be able to?

:rolleyes: u ****ing MJ stans sicken me. u really do

Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Dwyane Wade are currently shooting 50% right now. All have done it at least twice and counting (this is Lebron's 4th consecutive year shooting above the threshold). So forget the 80s, why hasn't Kobe done it even once in his era when the best player on the planet is currently on year 4 of shooting over 50%?

Let me guess, it's the era... the hyper athletes and advanced 'zone' defense that only Bean sees on a nightly basis? :oldlol:

[gengiskhan]

:facepalm no left hand drexler was able to shoot 500% in the 80s and Kobe wouldn't be able to?

:rolleyes: u ****ing MJ stans sicken me. u really do

F*** left hand !!!

if you are 1.5 inches taller, bigger, extra long wing span, bigger hands & palm the ball, much more stamina, strength & more conditioned than Kobe.

Drexler could put the ball on the floor & drive through physical D & still wont be pulling on his shorts & resting on his knees in OT of any game like kobe giving MJ impersonations from the beginning of the 2nd quarter.

Drexler did exactly that.

Imagine how many 3-pts FGA kobe will jock in '90s.

41% FG is what Kobe will be averaging . I was being lenient with 42%FG.

Know your NBA before presenting infantile argument. :coleman:

[Money 23]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The 00's decade had a lower TS%, eFG%, PPS, and O/DRtg than the 80's and 90's decades.
Too many dumb HSers drafted off "potential" hoping they'd be the next KG / Kobe / T-Mac.

Deliberate drop in possessions to slow the game down.

Drop off in pushing the ball into transition.

Era of the small combo guard.

Loss of team bball IQ, and skills.

Weak era for shooters, passers, and defined offensive roles.

That didn't play a part in anything ...

[Y2Gezee]

FG%, Blocks, Steals. All 3 are the most overrated stats in basketball.

[Heavincent]

Are people still trying to use Kobe's FG% as an argument against him? :oldlol:

45% is perfectly fine for the type of player that he is.

****ing stat geeks :facepalm Some of you guys have been reading too many Hollinger articles.

[The Iron Fist]

efficiency helps you win ball games dumbass :lol
Yup. Thats why lebron and wade and bosh all have less rings than Kobe combined.

[DonDadda59]

Yup. Thats why lebron and wade and bosh all have less rings than Kobe combined.

Actually, no. This is why:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKO5AO0NRiY/TegFLm7wXjI/AAAAAAAABFs/FFdk69buoFE/s1600/kobe-bryant-and-shaquille-oneal.jpg

[Heavincent]

Actually, no. This is why:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKO5AO0NRiY/TegFLm7wXjI/AAAAAAAABFs/FFdk69buoFE/s1600/kobe-bryant-and-shaquille-oneal.jpg

I'd actually say it's because Kobe is a top 10 player of all time

:confusedshrug:

[gengiskhan]

FG%, Blocks, Steals. All 3 are the most overrated stats in basketball.

just shows the mentality of today's 2 yrs old full retards lurking around on ISH

The following is the single most overrated stats in the history of the NBA:

-PPG

doesnt tell you if you played a blow out game for 3 quarters or triple OT thriller.

PPG will be different for a player playing 25 mins or 50 mins in tripile OT game.

FG% is probably the single more important stat to win a game.

[gengiskhan]

Actually, no. This is why:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKO5AO0NRiY/TegFLm7wXjI/AAAAAAAABFs/FFdk69buoFE/s1600/kobe-bryant-and-shaquille-oneal.jpg

well illustrated

Shaq's little brother for life.

NBA's greatest coach Phil's spoilt child for life.

& later on Gasol + Bynum's kid brother for life.

With out LAL organization, Kobe will never make it to NBA Finals.

[STATUTORY]

F*** left hand !!!

i[B]f you are 1.5 inches taller, bigger, extra long wing span, bigger hands & palm the ball, much more stamina, strength.


I agree. Being a tall athlete with physical gifts is all it took to succeed in the 80s

Gerald Green would have averaged 30/10/10 had he played then.

in this era, can't even get on the court.

[The Iron Fist]

Buck foston that series was a LOL for me. I am just saying that kobe has a chucker mentality and OP is trying to act like that is superior to having an efficiency mentality
Chucker mentality has produced more rings than efficiency mentality of three players.:roll:

[gengiskhan]

LAL franchise, NBAs winningest has produced more rings than efficiency mentality of three players by recruiting NBAs winningest coach from Chicago Bulls, NBA's last most dominant big man in shaq & NBA's most talented big men in Gasol & Bynum .:roll:

Corrected!

relax kiddo. kobe was just along for a ride.

Lakers 5 rings are product of Jerry West, KAJ, Magic & Phils brains. They recruited the NBAs most talented & collectively negated Kobe's ball hogging, shot jocking, poor efficiency.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Corrected!

relax kiddo. kobe was just along for a ride.

Lakers 5 rings are product of Jerry West, KAJ, Magic & Phils brains. They recruited the NBAs most talented & collectively negated Kobe's ball hogging, shot jocking, poor efficiency.
:oldlol:

Go back to watching Space Jam dude

[The Iron Fist]

Actually, no. This is why:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKO5AO0NRiY/TegFLm7wXjI/AAAAAAAABFs/FFdk69buoFE/s1600/kobe-bryant-and-shaquille-oneal.jpg
Kobe has more rings sans Shaq than the other way around.

Also, Shaq had plenty of time to get a ring before Kobe became a star.

5>4, 5>2.1.1

[Dave3]

i don't think its great that your star players are hesitant to shoot because they are worried about their percentage
LeBron clearly stated that when he looks at the stats it's not that he's thinking "Oh I shouldn't have taken a shot so my percentages don't go down" but that he thinks instead "I should have driven for a layup instead of taking a long 3"

It's an article on shot selection, and LeBron takes pride in having intelligent shot selection. I suppose that's a bad thing though right?

[Cali Syndicate]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/umdatz/mZ8x9_zps478f1e6f.jpg

[gengiskhan]

:oldlol:

Go back to watching Space Jam dude

****ing ****** :roll: :roll:

[DonDadda59]

Kobe has more rings sans Shaq than the other way around.

The majority of the rings Kobe has have 'property of Shaquille O'Neal' engraved on them.


Also, Shaq had plenty of time to get a ring before Kobe became a star.

5>4, 5>2.1.1

3 finals MVPs>2 finals MVPS. Being the best player on your team for 40% of your rings is still somewhat impressive though.

[PJR]

LeBron clearly stated that when he looks at the stats it's not that he's thinking "Oh I shouldn't have taken a shot so my percentages don't go down" but that he thinks instead "I should have driven for a layup instead of taking a long 3"

It's an article on shot selection, and LeBron takes pride in having intelligent shot selection. I suppose that's a bad thing though right?

Idiots didn't even read the article. But you can't expect much from Kobe fanatics. By far the dumbest contingent of sport fans on the planet.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The majority of the rings Kobe has have 'property of Shaquille O'Neal' engraved on them.



3 finals MVPs>2 finals MVPS. Being the best player on your team for 40% of your rings is still somewhat impressive though.
Post I already made:

01 & 02 facts

Lakers played 35 playoffs games, 8 series, and won 2 championships in 01 & 02 Playoffs.
Kobe was the leading scorer in 18/35 games
Kobe was the leading scorer in 4/8 series
Kobe was the leading scorer in the 4th quarter
Kobe was the leading scorer in the 2nd half
Kobe was the leader in assists

[Deuce Bigalow]

Idiots didn't even read the article. But you can't expect much from Kobe fanatics. By far the dumbest contingent of sport fans on the planet.
Kobe haters are easily the dumbest groups of sports fans. I have quotes to back it up too.

[DonDadda59]

Post I already made:

Like I said above, being the best player on your team for 40% of your championships is a nice accomplishment. But even then... Kobe still can't get to 50%, must be a mental barrier type of deal :oldlol:

[red1]

Actually, no. This is why:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-aKO5AO0NRiY/TegFLm7wXjI/AAAAAAAABFs/FFdk69buoFE/s1600/kobe-bryant-and-shaquille-oneal.jpg
Very insightful post, a picture is worth a thousand words. If one looks closely he will notice that shaq is carrying kobe the same way he carried him to three rings during the three-peat

[Deuce Bigalow]

Like I said above, being the best player on your team for 40% of your championships is a nice accomplishment. But even then... Kobe still can't get to 50%, must be a mental barrier type of deal :oldlol:
Who cares if he wasn't the best? You think Kareem cares that he wasn't the best in 4/6 of his rings?

[guy]

Post I already made:

Shaq averaged more points in both playoffs. Of course thats possible even with what you said, but you're implying Kobe was there leading scorer when he clearly wasn't.

[red1]

Like I said above, being the best player on your team for 40% of your championships is a nice accomplishment. But even then... Kobe still can't get to 50%, must be a mental barrier type of deal :oldlol:
dondadda with yet another excellent post

[red1]

Who cares if he wasn't the best? You think Kareem cares that he wasn't the best in 4/6 of his rings?
bad example as kareem is better than kobe

[DonDadda59]

Who cares if he wasn't the best? You think Kareem cares that he wasn't the best in 4/6 of his rings?

I don't know Kareem personally, so I can't speak for him. Just curious- who do you rank higher on the all time list, Kobe Bryant or John Havlicek?

[Heavincent]

Very insightful post, a picture is worth a thousand words. If one looks closely he will notice that shaq is carrying kobe the same way he carried him to three rings during the three-peat

I didn't know you were so bitter.

[STATUTORY]

I didn't know you were so bitter.
81 points. ni99a developed PTSD

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

81 points. ni99a developed PTSD

lol

[red1]

I didn't know you were so bitter.
just bugging deuce a big-a-hoe and if you paid attention to some of the stupid shit in this thread perhaps starting with the OP you would be laughing just like me

[red1]

81 points. ni99a developed PTSD
here is the same genius who tries to knock someone for being efficient :oldlol:

[lpublic_enemyl]

to be fair kobe takes a lot of shots at the end of shot clocks and broken plays in addition to his questionable shot selection it's easy to see why he shoots at around 45%

[Deuce Bigalow]

I don't know Kareem personally, so I can't speak for him. Just curious- who do you rank higher on the all time list, Kobe Bryant or John Havlicek?
Kobe

[red1]

I can confidently say that the kobe fanboys are the most delusional on this site

[DonDadda59]

Kobe

But Hondo has 8 rings :confusedshrug:

[STATUTORY]

here is the same genius who tries to knock someone for being efficient :oldlol:

why did you post 20+ times in this thread when the topic went right over your head?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I can confidently say that the kobe fanboys are the most delusional on this site
Ok, give me a list of what Kobe fanboys have said and I'll give you the list of what Kobe haters have said.

[Deuce Bigalow]

But Hondo has 8 rings :confusedshrug:
Hondo's not in Kobe's league.

[red1]

why did you post 20+ times in this thread when the topic went right over your head?
[QUOTE]

[secund2nun]

Kobe is a shot jacker that could not even shoot 47% ever in his career, even when he was young with prime Shaq taking up double teams. He is just inefficient, which is why in his prime he failed for all 3 seasons after Shaq left and before Gasol arrived to even win a playoff series

[Doranku]

did you taken into consideration. No Defensive era. zone defense which is all a joke compared to physical D MJ played against in the '90s.

Kobe wont cross 42%FG shooting had he played in late '80s early to mid '90s.

:roll: :roll: :roll: Right, an era where every team had a perimeter players shooting 50% is an era where Kobe Bryant won't shoot 42% FG.

Guys like Chris Mullin were dropping 25+ on 53%+. Kobe would probably shoot 60% in this awful era.

[DonDadda59]

Hondo's not in Kobe's league.

Dude had 26,395 points in his career. Averages of 21/6/5 (peak of 29/9/8). Was perennial all NBA team member (5 first team defense, 3 first team, bunch of 2nd team). 13 time all star. And 8 championships.

And like Kobe, he wasn't a Lebron/Wade-esque shooting stats whore :lol

You think maybe you're showing your bias here? You see the double standard?

[Doranku]

But Hondo has 8 rings :confusedshrug:

Yeah and more than half of them came when there were 8 teams in the league. :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe is a shot jacker that could not even shoot 47% ever in his career, even when he was young with prime Shaq taking up double teams. He is just inefficient, which is why in his prime he failed for 3 seasons in a row to even with a playoff series after Shaq left and before Gasol arrived.
Difference between MJ & Kobe
TS%: MJ +1.2
eFG%: MJ +2.2
PPS: MJ + 0.015

Kareem missed the Playoffs twice in his prime and lost in the first round multiple times. Guess he's a failure.

[Doranku]

Kobe is a shot jacker that could not even shoot 47% ever in his career, even when he was young with prime Shaq taking up double teams. He is just inefficient, which is why in his prime he failed for all 3 seasons after Shaq left and before Gasol arrived to even win a playoff series

How many playoff series did Jordan win before Pippen came along?

[DonDadda59]

Yeah and more than half of them came when there were 8 teams in the league. :roll:

Making it even more impressive. Think about how competitive the NBA would be if you got rid of the Bobcats and Hornets of the world and the league was only made up of the top 8 teams right now.

[STATUTORY]

So you are complaining that they hold the ball for full-court heaves, is that really the entire point of your thread? So instead of focusing on the million other things you could have noticed you decide to make a thread complaining about this?

no the thread is about how players internalize what the public emphasize as important about the game and tailor their play to fit those expectations and criterias. It accounts for why the "volume shooter" has fallen to the wayside as NBA viewers and analysts have become more efficiency focused. Kobe is really the last remaining star of that era and his mindset is now almost anachronistic.

[The Iron Fist]

Very insightful post, a picture is worth a thousand words. If one looks closely he will notice that shaq is carrying kobe the same way he carried him to three rings during the three-peat
The slaves always carry the royalty

[chazzy]

Not a big deal but it's just funny to me when players purposefully refrain from taking long shots at the end of quarters. Low percentage shot but it doesn't hurt to attempt

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dude had 26,395 points in his career. Averages of 21/6/5 (peak of 29/9/8). Was perennial all NBA team member (5 first team defense, 3 first team, bunch of 2nd team). 13 time all star. And 8 championships.

And like Kobe, he wasn't a Lebron/Wade-esque shooting stats whore :lol

You think maybe you're showing your bias here? You see the double standard?
Was he ever considered the best player in the world? Even for one season?
How many times was he top 5 in MVP voting?
Did he ever lead the league in scoring in the regular season or playoffs?

Kobe was either the best player or arguably the best player in 2006-2010 and Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times. Hondo on Kobe's level? Is that what you're saying? Just another horrible opinion by a Kobe hater.

[red1]

The slaves always carry the royalty
:biggums: shaq is a slave and kobe is royalty? the fcuk is wrong with your f*gg*t ass

[STATUTORY]

The slaves always carry the royalty

:roll: :roll: :applause:

http://media.weirdworm.com/img/people/5-horrendous-movie-performances-by-non-actors/kazaam.jpg

kazaam ni99a

[The Iron Fist]

Dude had 26,395 points in his career. Averages of 21/6/5 (peak of 29/9/8). Was perennial all NBA team member (5 first team defense, 3 first team, bunch of 2nd team). 13 time all star. And 8 championships.

And like Kobe, he wasn't a Lebron/Wade-esque shooting stats whore :lol

You think maybe you're showing your bias here? You see the double standard?
So if Hondo did this in the same era bill Russell won 11 rings in, then Russell >>>>> Jordan, right?

[Legends66NBA7]

None of Hondo's rings came when the league had 8 teams.

In order of how many teams in the following years:

63-66 - 9 (4 rings)
68 - 12
69 - 14
74 - 17
76 -18

[Deuce Bigalow]

Making it even more impressive. Think about how competitive the NBA would be if you got rid of the Bobcats and Hornets of the world and the league was only made up of the top 8 teams right now.
How about you go watch a video of 60's basketball. You should be ashamed if yourself.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Making it even more impressive. Think about how competitive the NBA would be if you got rid of the Bobcats and Hornets of the world and the league was only made up of the top 8 teams right now.

I understand that reasoning but what if the players back then just weren't as athletic and good as the players today? Like yeah you'd have all the best players but maybe those best players aren't as good as the best players from say 2003 or 1993?

[red1]

no the thread is about how players internalize what the public emphasize as important about the game and tailor their play to fit those expectations and criterias. It accounts for why the "volume shooter" has fallen to the wayside as NBA viewers and analysts have become more efficiency focused. Kobe is really the last remaining star of that era and his mindset is now almost anachronistic.
Ok when I take this thread in context with your other posts it looks like you are saying that kobe is better than lbj and wade because he would shoot a full-court heave and they wouldnt, am I correct?

[The Iron Fist]

:roll: :roll: :applause:

http://media.weirdworm.com/img/people/5-horrendous-movie-performances-by-non-actors/kazaam.jpg

kazaam ni99a
A genie is just a royals toy.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Dude had 26,395 points in his career. Averages of 21/6/5 (peak of 29/9/8). Was perennial all NBA team member (5 first team defense, 3 first team, bunch of 2nd team). 13 time all star. And 8 championships.

And like Kobe, he wasn't a Lebron/Wade-esque shooting stats whore :lol

You think maybe you're showing your bias here? You see the double standard?


hmmm might have something to do with Kobe's 12 all defensive selections, 14 all NBA selections, 10x first team.

and many other numerous things which Kobe was better at, not to mention Kobe is a consencus top 10 player of all time...

http://www.basesandbaskets.com/2012/12/greatest-nba-players-of-all-time.html


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/Top-10-players-in-NBA-history#tab=photo-title=Oscar+Robertson+%25281960-74%2529&photo=30219328


http://www.hoopsmanifesto.com/articles/basketball/top-10-nba-players-of-all-time.html


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/358840-top-ten-nba-players-of-all-time


how many of those have Hondo listed? How many have Kobe listed?


Keep showing your ignorance

[red1]

How about you go watch a video of 60's basketball. You should be ashamed if yourself.
He was talking about level of competition being high because of contraction, not how clumsy some players looked back then. Please keep up deuce jigahoe

[The Iron Fist]

:biggums: shaq is a slave and kobe is royalty? the fcuk is wrong with your f*gg*t ass
Kobe 5
Shaq 4


Kobe without Shaq 2
Shaq without Kobe 1


2000-2002, the best series was the wcf. The finals was just a formality. Shaq can have his mvps against Ric Skits and Todd Mac.

[Doranku]

Making it even more impressive. Think about how competitive the NBA would be if you got rid of the Bobcats and Hornets of the world and the league was only made up of the top 8 teams right now.

Having to win 11 playoff games opposed to 16 to win a championship is more impressive? Not to mention those Celtics were head and shoulders above the rest of the league for most of those years. I'd love to see a HoF player count comparison between the teams they played in the playoffs when they won their championships.

[Legends66NBA7]

I understand that reasoning but what if the players back then just weren't as athletic and good as the players today? Like yeah you'd have all the best players but maybe those best players aren't as good as the best players from say 2003 or 1993?

Read my post from above:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8170843&postcount=144

And no, during the 70's (which was Hondo's best years until he dropped off) the league started to gain much more parity.

I get what your saying about athletic ability, but for the case, Hondo would probably be as athletically comparable to any player in any era (got drafted by the NFL too).

[STATUTORY]

Ok when I take this thread in context with your other posts it looks like you are saying that kobe is better than lbj and wade because he would shoot a full-court heave and they wouldnt, am I correct?
no and I don't really care about that. I just thought it was interesting that the way media and fans analyze the game can have impact on how players approach the game.

not shooting the full court heave is an instance of this new mentality I suppose but that's really minor and second order importance.

[DonDadda59]

Got all these Kobe stans mad, using their own 'logic' against them. :oldlol:

I was just pointing out the fallacy in the '5 rangz' bullshit. Kobe was the best player on his team for 40% of his championships, he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO). But fans of Bean never take into account that rings are weighted, they're not all worth the same when it comes to player rankings. If Lebron leads his team to another championship, he'd match Kobe in that department.

I brought up Hondo because he has top 10-20 credentials and 8 championships, 3 more than Kobe. But that's not considering Bill Russell's role. It's the same fallacious arguments you dunces use.

[DonDadda59]

None of Hondo's rings came when the league had 8 teams.

In order of how many teams in the following years:

63-66 - 9 (4 rings)
68 - 12
69 - 14
74 - 17
76 -18

F*** you and yo factz.

[Legends66NBA7]

F*** you and yo factz.

I'm sorry, man.

:(

[The Iron Fist]

no and I don't really care about that. I just thought it was interesting that the way media and fans analyze the game can have impact on how players approach the game.

not shooting the full court heave is an instance of this new mentality I suppose but that's really minor and second order importance.
Name shaqs rings before Kobe since Kobe was basically insignificant in your eyes. Better yet, post all the finals wins before Kobe.

[secund2nun]

Difference between MJ & Kobe
TS%: MJ +1.2
eFG%: MJ +2.2
PPS: MJ + 0.015

Kareem missed the Playoffs twice in his prime and lost in the first round multiple times. Guess he's a failure.
Kareem has dominated countless NBA finals unlike Kobe who is a poor performer in NBA finals. Kareem has dominated regular season, playoffs and won playoff series by himself. He is a 5 time MVP and one of the best of all time.

Kobe has never won a playoff series by himself he had 3 chances....and he was in his prime.

[secund2nun]

How many playoff series did Jordan win before Pippen came along?

MJ was before his prime before Pippen and MJ has dominated like crazy and has had amazing playoff, finals performances unlike Kobe (see post above). He has led 6 teams to a ring with no dominant front court players. Kobe is nowhere close to guys like Kareem and MJ it's a shame what the media's BS hype has done.

[red1]

no and I don't really care about that. I just thought it was interesting that the way media and fans analyze the game can have impact on how players approach the game.

not shooting the full court heave is an instance of this new mentality I suppose but that's really minor and second order importance.
True. I read the article and it was bob mcadoo the former star and one of the current heat assistant coaches who was the guy who put pressure on dwade to aim for 50% so I don't think it is the media specifically but the coaching staff and lockerroom culture they have that emphasizes efficiency.

Honestly the heat play basketball the right way. Unselfish, efficient, and prioritize defense. All of the stars made sacrifices just to play on a winning team and everyone accepts their role. When was the last time we heard someone complain about touches the same way pau and dwight seem to do every other week.

[red1]

Got all these Kobe stans mad, using their own 'logic' against them. :oldlol:

I was just pointing out the fallacy in the '5 rangz' bullshit. Kobe was the best player on his team for 40% of his championships, he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO). But fans of Bean never take into account that rings are weighted, they're not all worth the same when it comes to player rankings. If Lebron leads his team to another championship, he'd match Kobe in that department.

I brought up Hondo because he has top 10-20 credentials and 8 championships, 3 more than Kobe. But that's not considering Bill Russell's role. It's the same fallacious arguments you dunces use.
aaaah sheeit n*gga its dem 5 rangz!!!!!!!!

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Read my post from above:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8170843&postcount=144

And no, during the 70's (which was Hondo's best years until he dropped off) the league started to gain much more parity.

I get what your saying about athletic ability, but for the case, Hondo would probably be as athletically comparable to any player in any era (got drafted by the NFL too).

I'm just playing Devil's advocate lol. But I wasn't referring to Hondo specifically. I was addressing the "The competition was stiffer when there were less teams." thing.

[ThaRegul8r]

Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats

This is hardly some new phenomenon. You're acting like players haven't deliberately set out to achieve some statistical goal before.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm just playing Devil's advocate lol. But I wasn't referring to Hondo specifically. I was addressing the "The competition was stiffer when there were less teams." thing.

Oh okay.

I'm playing Devil's advocate here too. I actually don't think the Hondo comparison is that valid but I can see why people think they are similar in terms of career.

[ripthekik]

True. I read the article and it was bob mcadoo the former star and one of the current heat assistant coaches who was the guy who put pressure on dwade to aim for 50% so I don't think it is the media specifically but the coaching staff and lockerroom culture they have that emphasizes efficiency.

Honestly the heat play basketball the right way. Unselfish, efficient, and prioritize defense. All of the stars made sacrifices just to play on a winning team and everyone accepts their role. When was the last time we heard someone complain about touches the same way pau and dwight seem to do every other week.
shiiit after so many hours this red1 still defending wade n bron like his momma :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron already costed his team 1 championship because he cares too much about his stats, how the media viewed him. So why do you guys say it doesn't matter? he's already LOST you 1 ring! :roll:

When your players are so self-conscious.. that's why they're so likely to fail when the pressure is on. that's why lebron fails so much in the clutch, and why he always passes instead of shooting when his team is down, and shoots only when his team is up.

[red1]

shiiit after so many hours this red1 still defending wade n bron like his momma :roll: :roll: :roll:

Lebron already costed his team 1 championship because he cares too much about his stats, how the media viewed him. So why do you guys say it doesn't matter? he's already LOST you 1 ring! :roll:

When your players are so self-conscious.. that's why they're so likely to fail when the pressure is on. that's why lebron fails so much in the clutch, and why he always passes instead of shooting when his team is down, and shoots only when his team is up.
:no: We are not friends stop following me around and stop trying to get my attention.

[ILLsmak]

Kobe isn't a good example because he takes terrible shots.

FG% is very overrated, though, especially if you set other players up to fail because you'd rather them miss it than you.

The funny thing is, doing that 2 or 3 times a game would be a huge difference in your percentage and nobody would notice. In fact, the guy that you gave the ball to might actually feel you are empowering him by giving him a chance to shine.

-Smak

[ripthekik]

:no: We are not friends stop following me around and stop trying to get my attention.
except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:

[guy]

Was he ever considered the best player in the world? Even for one season?
How many times was he top 5 in MVP voting?
Did he ever lead the league in scoring in the regular season or playoffs?

Kobe was either the best player or arguably the best player in 2006-2010 and Top 5 in MVP voting 10 times. Hondo on Kobe's level? Is that what you're saying? Just another horrible opinion by a Kobe hater.

Hondo was actually top 5 in MVP voting twice.

What does 2006-2010 have to do with 2000-2002? I think thats what his point was.

[red1]

except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:
You are the one who posts about nothing but lbj. Look at your avatar you clown, lbj is in every thought that your crosses your mind

[Deuce Bigalow]

Hondo was actually top 5 in MVP voting twice.

What does 2006-2010 have to do with 2000-2002? I think thats what his point was.
Dondadda, a poster that is in your kind of group was trying to say Hondo was on Kobe's level all time.

[guy]

How many playoff series did Jordan win before Pippen came along?

That 11/5 in 27 MPG that Pippen provided in that first round was huge :oldlol:

[PJR]

except that you're in every single lebron thread defending him like a mad little kid :roll: :roll: :roll:

You are by far, the biggest LeBron dick rider on this forum.

By far. Everyone can attest to that.

You even have pauk beat. And that's impossible.

[guy]

Dondadda, a poster that is in your kind of group was trying to say Hondo was on Kobe's level all time.

No, I think he was trying to say just using there resume without context to prop up one player over another is stupid.

[ripthekik]

You are the one who posts about nothing but lbj. Look at your avatar you clown, lbj is in every thought that your crosses your mind
hmm.. lookat the amount of posts in this thread that you talk about lebron vs me..
seems like you got 30 while i got what.. 3?
all over the forums defending him like he saved your cat off a tree when you were a kid :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

That 11/5 in 27 MPG that Pippen provided in that first round was huge :oldlol:

Well, when he did start he became more vital and played great in the Final game vs Cleveland.

But yeah, Oakley was more important than Pippen in Jordan's first playoff win... and incase anybody didn't know what Jordan did to get out of the first round for the first time:

45.2ppg 5.4 rpg 4.8apg 2.8apg 1.6bog 55.9%fg 91.8%ft (5 games)

[red1]

hmm.. lookat the amount of posts in this thread that you talk about lebron vs me..
seems like you got 30 while i got what.. 3?
all over the forums defending him like he saved your cat off a tree when you were a kid :oldlol:
Hop off lebron's nuts you corny f*gg*t. Stop worshipping the guy like he is more than just a pro athlete.

[Legends66NBA7]

all over the forums defending

There are a lot of different posters who defend a certain player or team. Not a big deal if it's valid and reasonable, really.

[Heavincent]

he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO).

Retard alert.

[Money 23]

Got all these Kobe stans mad, using their own 'logic' against them. :oldlol:

I was just pointing out the fallacy in the '5 rangz' bullshit. Kobe was the best player on his team for 40% of his championships, he has 2 finals MVPs (and 2010 was questionable IMO). But fans of Bean never take into account that rings are weighted, they're not all worth the same when it comes to player rankings. If Lebron leads his team to another championship, he'd match Kobe in that department.

I brought up Hondo because he has top 10-20 credentials and 8 championships, 3 more than Kobe. But that's not considering Bill Russell's role. It's the same fallacious arguments you dunces use.
There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.

[red1]

There are a lot of different posters who defend a certain player or not. Not a big deal if it's valid and reasonable, really.
Ripthekik is so delusional that he thinks it is more embarrasing to rationally defend a player than it is to be absolutely obsessed with them to the point that he doesnt think or post about anything else. Look at his avatar and then try to take him serious after

[ripthekik]

Hop off lebron's nuts you corny f*gg*t. Stop worshipping the guy like he is more than just a pro athlete.
exact thing you should tell yourself, and quit acting like a 13 year old trying to look like a bad ass.. you weak sauce :oldlol:


There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.

then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?

[red1]

exact thing you should tell yourself, and quit acting like a 13 year old trying to look like a bad ass.. you weak sauce :oldlol:

then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?
:wtf:

[Bandito]

Man ill take Lebron pull up jumper over a defender than UD 20 foot open jumper. Ill take a Kobe fadeaway over a defender than an open 3 from Blake. Some things you give and take. Casual fans dont care about stats. They see W or L. The hardcore fans are the ones that nitpick that stuff which causes debates all over threads. If Kobe bricks a gamewinner over a defender we say bad shot, Lebron would have found a better shot. If Lebron passes a game winner opportunity, we say Kobe will never pass that up. If Kobe hits a gamewinner we go all hail clutchbe. If Lebron hits a gamewinner we say lucky shot.
That pretty much summarizes the Kobe trolls and the Lebrontards.

[Bandito]

There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.:facepalm Looks like you are just joking but still.

[Legends66NBA7]

Ripthekik is so delusional that he thinks it is more embarrasing to rationally defend a player than it is to be absolutely obsessed with them to the point that he doesnt think or post about anything else. Look at his avatar and then try to take him serious after

Yeah, I've also thought it's weird that many posters on ISH are passive-aggressive towards each other on a near obsessive level. Same way they obsess a player too.

Just ignore list people like this. It's really not worth the time.

[Money 23]

then lebron has 1/2 a ring, considering he had the top 2 SG and top 5 PF, while having the 2 best players in the east injured, hows that logic taste?
Nah LeBron gets a full ring. Don't get me wrong, he was a ****** for what he did in 2010 playoffs, joining a fellow elite superstar in a separate franchise, and no showing in an NBA Finals.

But he more than earned his ring last season. Regardless of injury (it's apart of the sport) ... if that's the case Kobe's 2009 doesn't count. KG was out, Celtics were defending champs, were better than the Lakers ... especially in 2009 with an improved Rondo before KG's injury. 2010 doesn't count either, Perk's injury before game 7.

See?

LeBron dominated last playoffs, with sporadic brilliance from Wade (due to injury) and Bosh who missed the vast majority of the playoffs. LeBron's straight punch in the mouth to the Celtics in response to KG and Pierce's bullying IN Boston was more impressive of a performance than anything Kobe has ever done in the playoffs.

Entire rep on the line, team facing elimination, back against the wall, nation wanting him to fail and he DEMOLISHED them by himself. No help.

We're not taking away rings from Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem due to stacked and talented rosters. We're just weighing the rings differently given an individual player's worth to a team.

You're the man = FULL RING value
You're the beta / sidekick = 1/2 a ring value

That way we don't get knuckle heads claiming Horry > LeBron, or Pippen > LeBron / Wade


:facepalm Looks like you are just joking but still.
Kind of but not really ... read above.

Ripthekik, it makes sense. Your statements don't. Take a time out kid, clear your head, and stop wearing the LeBron hate goggles. It makes you as crazy as Knoe Itawl.

I gave Bron much deserved crap in 2010 and 2011. It was deserved. In 2012? Hell no, he proved me wrong. He hit rock bottom and turned it around, and looked in the mirror and improved himself.

Why hasn't he won your respect yet? You come across as more obsessed with Bron than even his craziest fans (pauk) ... you refuse to talk about anything else.

It's frightening.

[ripthekik]

Nah LeBron gets a full ring. Don't get me wrong, he was a ****** for what he did in 2010 playoffs, joining a fellow elite superstar in a separate franchise, and no showing in an NBA Finals.

But he more than earned his ring last season. Regardless of injury (it's apart of the sport) ... if that's the case Kobe's 2009 doesn't count. KG was out, Celtics were defending champs, were better than the Lakers ... especially in 2009 with an improved Rondo before KG's injury. 2010 doesn't count either, Perk's injury before game 7.

See?

LeBron dominated last playoffs, with sporadic brilliance from Wade (due to injury) and Bosh who missed the vast majority of the playoffs. LeBron's straight punch in the mouth to the Celtics in response to KG and Pierce's bullying IN Boston was more impressive of a performance than anything Kobe has ever done in the playoffs.

Entire rep on the line, team facing elimination, back against the wall, nation wanting him to fail and he DEMOLISHED them by himself. No help.

We're not taking away rings from Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Wilt, Magic, Kareem due to stacked and talented rosters. We're just weighing the rings differently given an individual player's worth to a team.

You're the man = FULL RING value
You're the beta / sidekick = 1/2 a ring value

That way we don't get knuckle heads claiming Horry > LeBron, or Pippen > LeBron / Wade


Kind of but not really ... read above.

Ripthekik, it makes sense. Your statements don't. Take a time out kid, clear your head, and stop wearing the LeBron hate goggles. It makes you as crazy as Knoe Itawl.

I gave Bron much deserved crap in 2010 and 2011. It was deserved. In 2012? Hell no, he proved me wrong. He hit rock bottom and turned it around, and looked in the mirror and improved himself.

Why hasn't he won your respect yet? You come across as more obsessed with Bron than even his craziest fans (pauk) ... you refuse to talk about anything else.

It's frightening.
Nope, because you all continue to underestimate Wade and Bosh's values. Just because Wade didn't put up 06 numbers every game, doesn't mean he's become just another #2 role player. He's not, he can turn it up to 06 level in a moment's notice, and that's the benefit Lebron gets. Lebron has the benefit of being able to disappear for a quarter because Wade will take over - and people will even give Bron the benefit of the doubt such as he's being a good teammate. If he was by himself? that's when the choke comes in. Lebron has the help of 2 franchise numbers, and that's something the numbers don't show.

Lebron has yet to prove he can lead his own team to a ring without so much help, so no, he does not have my respect, and he did not win a full ring in your terms. Kobe did it with just Pau (if you think Bynum was worth anything, then you're probably a dumbass and argument ends here), Dirk did it almost by himself, Wade 06 did it by himself.

Bron is not on the level of those guys above.

[Deuce Bigalow]

There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.
:facepalm

Go watch some Space Jam

[red1]

There should be a mathematical weighted formula ala Hollinger for determining a rings worth as alpha or beta.

They're not all equal. Kareem's 5 rings would lose luster, as would Magic's 5 rings.

Shaq has 3 rings as "the man"

Kobe has 2 rings as "the man"

Bron has a ring as "the man", Wade has a ring "as the man" and half a ring as side kick.

In fact that's a good way to look at it, you're awarded half a ring if you're beta on a championship team

Altogether Kobe has 3 1/2 rings.
good stuff

[The Big Skinny]

I'm the least bit a Kobe fan but he is shooting 47% this year, one of his best years ever in terms of efficiency.

Just sayin.

[Money 23]

:facepalm

Go watch some Space Jam
I would say go watch *insert Kobe Bryant movie* in an effort for a witty comeback, but then I realize he never crossed the threshold of being popular enough an icon to have been on the silver screen

So instead I say go listen to some atrocious Kobe rap with Tyra Banks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl_WkTiH6-Q

[Legends66NBA7]

I know I saw Kobe in the movie "Be Cool", but I think that was just a cameo.

[Legends66NBA7]

Nope, because you all continue to underestimate Wade and Bosh's values.

What is Bosh's main value as a franchise player ?

[Money 23]

I know I saw Kobe in the movie "Be Cool", but I think that was just a cameo.
Always trying to drop facts, not in regards to the actual conversation.

And no, he was on an episode of Moesha and an episode of a 90's saturday morning tv show called "Hang Time" about HS kids playing for their team.

No movies, no "Be Cool" with John Travolta. Stop always trying to school people, dude.

Especially when your facts are wrong.

[Legends66NBA7]

Always trying to drop facts, not in regards to the actual conversation.

And no, he was on an episode of Moesha and an episode of a 90's saturday morning tv show called "Hang Time" about HS kids playing for their team.

No movies, no "Be Cool" with John Travolta. Stop always trying to school people, dude.

Especially when your facts are wrong.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377471/trivia


The scenes at the NBA game with John Travolta and Uma Thurman were filmed at the Staples Center during a game between the Lakers and the Sacramento Kings on 26 February 2004. Although the film depicts the Lakers winning the game, they lost 101-103.

I remembered that scene in particular because I believe Travolta also said something in regards to Karl Malone and Shaq, but they didn't have any lines. Kobe's "cameo" was him coming off the bench ready to check into the game.

I wasn't trying to school you, man, I was just saying I remembered that scene because of the movie reference.

You can watch the whole movie if you want:

http://www.tubeplus.me/player/60438/Be_Cool/

I don't know what time that scene comes at since I don't own the movie.

And to regards to your actual conversation, Deuce always puts that comeback line off "watch Space Jam". Yeah, it's stupid when it first came out and still stupid when you say it for the 100/1000th time.

If it's about LeBron's "value" in that playoff run that ripthekik is talking about the value of Wade and Bosh.... what really is there to say than LeBron just particular took over and Wade and Bosh were banged up and didn't have the bursts? I've see kblaze and yourself shater his every point and I would have said the same.

[Legends66NBA7]

I just skimmed through the movie and it's @ the 1 hour 2 minute mark. He's in 4 scenes:

-Walking to the scorers table.
-Taking a jump shot.
-Contesting a shot on the other end.
-Making a layup.

I guess the Malone and Shaq scene didn't happen or it was in another movie.

[Nero Tulip]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sports/basketball/miami-heats-james-and-wade-play-the-percentages/nT2sZ/

Can you imagine an AI or Kobe saying that in the early 2000s before the Hollingerfication of the sport?

This is why we need to look at these .500% fg season stats with suspicion. Players are consciously modifying their game to achieve these stats, perhaps to the detriment of the team, because that's the purvey by which players are judged now.

it highlights a difference in perspective between the old school and new school players. Back in the early 2000s in the most offensively depressed era in all of NBA, it was just about being able to put up points and that's the lingering sentiment of a player like Kobe which is almost quaint in the efficiency obsessed era of today.

If kobe entered the league in 2006 I have no doubt he would be a .500+ scorer as well because his mentality would be completely different.

Wow. There are a lot of idiots on this board but this has to be one of the stupidest posts I've read.

[BoutPractice]

How exactly can shooting efficiency hurt your chances of winning a basketball game?
Isn't the goal of basketball to score more points than your opponent, and scoring more points per possession one of the surest ways to achieve that goal?

[alleykat]

It also means they're looking for the best looking high % shot as possible. This is better than fading over 2 defenders...

:rockon: good post

[Burgz V2]

LMAO at those comparing Kobe's advanced stats to Jordan.

Jordan's eFG/TS higher WHILE averaging more assists/rebounds/steals/blocks. Fcuk out of here with that, you Kobe stans are a joke

[Clifton]

Are we still pretending that LeBron can't shoot? Really? Pretty pathetic.
I wouldn't go this far. Lebron could really stand to improve his shooting. If he had Vince Carter's jumper, but played the same way he does now, he could be in GOAT discussions. People would be making Lebron or Bird? posts.

I don't know what the stats are, but the fact is Lebron's jumper is marginal. Has nowhere near the consistency and touch you want.

Still the best player in the world and everything, and this idea that he passes up shots in the clutch is ridiculous, but his J sucks. It's better than Rondo and Wall and Wade, but worse than almost every other top perimeter player's.

Of course, if he had a great J, he'd be more tempted to settle for it, which nobody wants. Except fans of opposing teams.