When Boston finishes the season as good or better than they've been so far...

[Clifton]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.

This is a totally baseless claim which could be right, and if you're wrong, who cares? Hardly sticking your neck on the line when you're putting it to a load of strangers on the internet.

I'll humour you, though. Who's playing PG?

[Rubio2Gasol]

And then in the playoffs? They're getting to the Finals I assume.

If they want to make the playoffs they will make the playoffs. If they feel that urgency they have the talent to make it happen. They haven't played with that yet.

[ProfessorMurder]

So if they're under .500 right now, and go 16-16 in their remaining games, that proves Rondo is terrible?

The team cannot play much worse than they have been, and they have to play worse to prove that Rondo is good.

---

You also said that they players on the team are too old and can't run... But Rondo is holding them back.

---

Great logic dick nose.

[Glide2keva]

If the C's improve with Rondo gone, you won't see the trolling of the C's posters to the level the Bulls posters get trolled.

Since that won't happen, it's nothing to even think about.

[Clifton]

This is a totally baseless claim which could be right, and if you're wrong, who cares? Hardly sticking your neck on the line when you're putting it to a load of strangers on the internet.
Well, in the context of this internet forum, people have reputations, people get "bumped" and exposed, and people remember things people say. There are relationships, friendships, and hatreds on here. Posters have said things from which they've never recovered. Obviously it's much less important than any real life relationship, but none of my friends watch basketball. My friends who watch basketball are all here. I don't want them to think I'm stupid. So making strong claims does present some risk.


You also said that they players on the team are too old and can't run... But Rondo is holding them back.
That's right.

Being young and running doesn't bring meaningful success in the NBA. However, defensively being able to keep up with your opponent is necessary. That's why the Spurs can't beat the Thunder in a 7 game series any more. However, one guy Rondo's defending the other team's PG doesn't make or break that for a team. Pierce plodding along behind Lebron as he goes for 35 points in the paint is what will break them. Unless Rondo can get ten rebounds, control the paint on defense, or guard Lebron, he's not the answer to the Celtics' problems. Rondo is the answer to a bunch of problems the Celtics don't have and never did. He was just a good player so they had to incorporate him. As soon as he's gone, the team will just play like the Heat do, and other good teams that have no true PG and also no need of one (like the Thunder and the Spurs, - that's 3 of the NBA's 4 best teams).

[Sharmer]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.


:bowdown: Too many mindless fans who have jumped on the Rondo bandwagon, he's got a toxic attitude, still doesnt have a reliable jump shot, gives up open shots to embellish his stats.

[Sharmer]

This is a totally baseless claim which could be right

Self refuting argument, you're stating the claim is baseless yet at the same time claiming that it could be true.


Hardly sticking your neck on the line when you're putting it to a load of strangers on the internet.

And then you state that the OP is not sticking his neck out, because of the anonymity of the internet, yet you hide behind he same anonymity; so do I and everyone else on here.

:hammerhead:

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Self refuting argument, you're stating the claim is baseless yet at the same time claiming that it could be true.

You know that a baseless claim means it is BASED on nothing but guesswork? He has nothing to prove it will happen. I can state that the world will end tomorrow. It is based on nothing but conjecture, but it still MIGHT happen. Baseless statement.


And then you state that the OP is not sticking his neck out, because of the anonymity of the internet, yet you hide behind he same anonymity; so do I and everyone else on here.

:hammerhead:

For the record he made a fair reply; I'm in a similar situation in that I only talk basketball on here and to a select few on Twitter. But I'm not the one making false statements, and neither he or you have answered how the Celtics will win more when they lack a single PG.

[Pushxx]

Rondo has done enough in the last three postseasons to prove he's not overrated.

[CelticBaller]

Whats the point of bookmarking/bumping this. You'll leave anyways

[Celtic_Pride]

Heat have Lebron, Wade and even Chalmers to penetrate and make plays. Thunder have Westbrook, Durant and Maynor who can do the same.

Who do the Celtics have? Barbosa?

Celtics are a jump shooting team. Pierce doesn't have it in him anymore to carry the offense for 40 minutes a night!

They will be better defensively due to Bradley and Lee starting but they will be worse offensively and on the boards as Rondo is one of the best rebounders Cs have

[RRR3]

Heat have Lebron, Wade and even Chalmers to penetrate and make plays. Thunder have Westbrook, Durant and Maynor who can do the same.

Who do the Celtics have? Barbosa?

Celtics are a jump shooting team. Pierce doesn't have it in him anymore to carry the offense for 40 minutes a night!

They will be better defensively due to Bradley and Lee starting but they will be worse offensively and on the boards as Rondo is one of the best rebounders Cs have
Once upon a time Jason Terry was a PG who averaged over 7 Assists per game. True story.

[Just2McFly]

So if they're under .500 right now, and go 16-16 in their remaining games, that proves Rondo is terrible?

The team cannot play much worse than they have been, and they have to play worse to prove that Rondo is good.

---

You also said that they players on the team are too old and can't run... But Rondo is holding them back.

---

Great logic dick nose.
http://cdn.static.ovimg.com/episode/70647.jpg

we aint happy about improper sid references man:mad:

[Celtics_18]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.

I agree that they'll finish around .500 the rest of the way and make the playoffs. That doesn't mean in any way that Rondo is overrated. Look at the last few years with the Celtics. They always start off extremely slow.

You people amaze me. Literally EVERY SINGLE YEAR Rondo beasts in the playoffs, then coasts in the regular season and everyone jumps on the "wow, Rondo is overrated" bandwagon.

The worst part about his injury is that he won't be able to throw up his usual numbers in the playoffs and prove you dumbasses wrong again.

[tmacattack33]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.

The Bulls were not a decent playoff team without Rose. They were probably the worst playoff team last year out of all 16 playoff teams and got beat by the Sixers 4-1 without Rose.

[Whoah10115]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.



What about when they can't win a 1st round series, despite never having been eliminated in the 1st round with Rondo on the team? Will you still be right then?


They will do fine without him...until they get ousted in the 1st round. The fact is, no matter what they do without him, they can't win a title without him. They can win a title with him.


But maybe Rivers will realize that the offense is better when there is a system in place that makes use of the OTHER GOOD players on the team.

[SyRyanYang]

Rose must be trash too right?

[Whoah10115]

Once upon a time Jason Terry was a PG who averaged over 7 Assists per game. True story.



On a team that won 37 games in the Eastern Conference.


Jason Terry is a scoring combo guard...a SG with some PG game.

[Mach_3]

You people amaze me. Literally EVERY SINGLE YEAR Rondo beasts in the playoffs, then coasts in the regular season and everyone jumps on the "wow, Rondo is overrated" bandwagon.



This.

And any one who actually watches the C's know that the offense is complete sh1t when Rondo isn't on the floor. The C's making the playoffs does nothing to prove or disprove Rondo being overrated, which he isn't seeing as he's been called overrated for the last 3 seasons and for the last 3 postseasons he has shown that he has a very good argument for best point in the postseason

[drza44]

You want a limb? Alright, barring a KG injury or team-shaking trade, Celts finish at worst 26 - 12 over last 38 games.

How?

Bradley/Lee/Pierce/Sully/KG dominates defensively

Offensively, dirty secret...lots of individual offensive talent on this team. Problem before is that Terry/Lee/Pierce all better with ball in their hands than spotting up. Terry and Barbosa needed more consistent minutes. Sully better offense creator than Bass, didnt need to be spoonfed the jumpers like Bass did. Pierce/KG/Sully one of best passing frontcourts in NBA, takes playmaking burden off of Bradley and Lee.

Offensive summary: Rondo is one of the best spoon-feeding passers in the league, on a team where the talent doesn't fit the spot-up rolls he needs.

Bottom line: offense improves marginally, defense improves significantly, Celtics no worse than 26 - 12 down stretch.

How's that for being bump-ably bold?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Cool Story?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

What about when they can't win a 1st round series, despite never having been eliminated in the 1st round with Rondo on the team? Will you still be right then?


They will do fine without him...until they get ousted in the 1st round. The fact is, no matter what they do without him, they can't win a title without him. They can win a title with him.


But maybe Rivers will realize that the offense is better when there is a system in place that makes use of the OTHER GOOD players on the team.
:applause:

Btw, why do you have a red bar?

[Johnny Jones]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.
:roll: :roll: :lol

[RidonKs]

they did finish the season better than they started

before thread : 21 - 23
after thread : 20 - 17

tho the whole team has been rather riddled with injury throughout so its hard to compare one half with the other

[RR#9]

What about when they can't win a 1st round series, despite never having been eliminated in the 1st round with Rondo on the team? Will you still be right then?


They will do fine without him...until they get ousted in the 1st round. The fact is, no matter what they do without him, they can't win a title without him. They can win a title with him.


But maybe Rivers will realize that the offense is better when there is a system in place that makes use of the OTHER GOOD players on the team.

:applause:

[Celtic_Pride]

they did finish the season better than they started

before thread : 21 - 23
after thread : 20 - 17

tho the whole team has been rather riddled with injury throughout so its hard to compare one half with the other

Forget about record.

Celtics just doesn't have a single playmaker. Only retards will think Celtics will be better without Rondo. Post season Rondo is a top 5 player in the league.

KG and Bass looks completely lost out there w/o him!

[Celtic_Pride]

Once upon a time Jason Terry was a PG who averaged over 7 Assists per game. True story.

Once upon a time Juwan Howard averaged 22/8. See how bad your post is?

[longtime lurker]

We will all see just how overrated Rajon Rondo is.

I am not saying they'll be like the Bulls, and go from title contender to decent playoff team because of sheer effort. I am saying they'll improve. They'll finish the year playing no worse than .500 ball, and will make the playoffs, and will be the team no top seed wants to face, just as they would with Rondo. Will they beat the Heat? I vote no. They are beyond old and can't guard the Heat stars, or run with them. But they'll put up a serious fight.

This is not because Rondo is a bad player. It's because Rondo is merely an above-average player who has been confused for a star for too long. And it's also because he has been playing with players who are more naturally suited to ball-dominating and scoring/distributing roles all along (and has robbed them of the opportunity to be much more than catch-and-shooters for most of the first 3 quarters).

I am perfectly aware this thread is prime "bump" material should I be wrong. And I might be.

...But I won't be. 'Cause I'm right.

I love threads like this. They should be constantly bumped to ridicule idiot posters that make outlandish claims for attention.

[Clifton]

I love threads like this. They should be constantly bumped to ridicule idiot posters that make outlandish claims for attention.
Read the post again. I was right.

They're getting run out the building by the Knicks right now, but there is no reason to suppose they'd be any better with Rondo. And there's no way they're an easier opponent than the Bucks or Hawks. When Rondo was in, it wasn't even clear they'd make the playoffs at all.

They put up a stretch as good as anyone in the league for about twenty games right after Rondo went out. (I considered bumping the thread then, but figured no one would care, just as they didn't when I made it.) They didn't continue to develop their offense though (mediocre coaching) and they ran out of steam. A great coach would have this series competitive. Rondo would not. What would Rondo do? Rondo can't score, either. He passes to other guys who score. If they're not making basic plays like the Celtics aren't now, they won't be just because of some magic effect of Rondo being the guy who passed to them. He'd give the team some offensive relief with transition play but that's about it. It wouldn't help in the long run.

The Celtics are pathetic on offense right now, and severely lacking in direction. But their direction is not to be found in Rondo-ball. Rondo-ball's a crutch, and as long as they're leaning on it they're not winning a title regardless. Pierce and Garnett are simply invisible. They go to Green more than Pierce, how insane is that?

[willds09]

3-0!!!

[ProfessorMurder]

Read the post again. I was right.

No you weren't. You're a moron.

[Clifton]

No you weren't. You're a moron.
You're boring.

Try saying things with words that are substantial.

[Haks]

:facepalm :facepalm the direspect!!! End of last season we were talking about whether rondowas better than cp3 smh man

[RidonKs]

They're getting run out the building by the Knicks right now, but there is no reason to suppose they'd be any better with Rondo.
lol maybe not theoretically but past playoffs examples offer more than enough evidence to back up that assertion. Rondo has consistently played to the tune of 20/10 in the biggest series' of his life. hell, you want a comparison, check the celtics sweep of the knicks two years ago.

he put up consecutively

10/9/9
30/4/7
15/11/20
21/5/12

how can you suggest numbers like that wouldn't make a difference? i'm not arguing a Boston sweep or even a Boston victory, these are completely different teams. but you can bet your ass the Celts wouldn't be averaging 75 stinkin points lol

i don't buy Rondo not being a scorer. he's a reluctant scorer with a major flaw that defenders have been exploiting for years... but its a flaw he's overcome to the point he can keep his man honest with the occasional 20 footer. he's proven he can carry a team offensively with major spurts in its most desperate moments.



But their direction is not to be found in Rondo-ball. Rondo-ball's a crutch, and as long as they're leaning on it they're not winning a title regardless.
thats different. i think you're right in that for rondo to play effectively within a system that can actually contend, it'll have to be very specifically tailored around his abilities.... which is just an altogether unlikely scenario. it's almost impossible to use him with a swing scorer or a traditional bigman because he's so easy to help off. he can overcome that in the short term but the long run it'll be exploited by a good coach and lead to his team's downfall. and using him as THE GUY, well again you're right, he just isn't talented enough... only about five maybe six guys are right now

but against the knicks that's all irrelevant. the first two games wouldn't have been low scoring double digit blowouts had rondo been running the celtics. it would have at least been competitive.

i mean you're talking ORDER and then dismissing as irrelevant the gaping hole left by the starting point guard and best playmaker... really?

[ProfessorMurder]

You're boring.

Try saying things with words that are substantial.

Try saying one correct thing about basketball.

The Celtics have no playmaker. They have nobody that consistently creates their own shots. Their offense is terrible.

A player that is a 4 time all star, all-nba, all-defensive, league leader in assists WILL help the team... Especially when he ups his game in the playoffs.

The team was 18-20 with him in the lineup (no Bradley the majority of those games) and 23-23 without him this season. The Knicks will make them 23-24 with one more win. If Rondo was a terrible cancer on the team, they'd be noticeably better without him.

Just take your Rondo hate somewhere else.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Read the post again. I was right.
No you were not.

[Shepseskaf]

Amazing to me that Boston didn't see the need to pick up a real point guard when Rondo went down.

[Djahjaga]

Amazing to me that Boston didn't see the need to pick up a real point guard when Rondo went down.

Hey, we haven't had a backup PG for 5 years now, what's the risk in going without a starting one either? Or a Center for that matter?

I trust Danny Ainge, but he definitely made some mistakes this year. That's to be expected, though, and his ratio of good moves to bad moves is still very favorable.

It'll be interesting to see what happens next season. I'm of the belief that the Celtics will actually be better, but some changes have to be made.

[Shepseskaf]

It'll be interesting to see what happens next season. I'm of the belief that the Celtics will actually be better, but some changes have to be made.
They're going to have to get some younger bigs. I'm guessing that KG and Pierce may be done there.

The team will be better when Rondo gets back, obviously. But without a serious infusion of youth, its hard to see them improving by much.

[unknowns8]

we're all witnessing the bad side of rondo's injury atm - an unstuck offence in pressure situations leading to all players making poor decisions

rondo is the glue of our offence, in the same way KG is the glue of our defence ... if you dont have glue keeping all the pieces together, things get unstuck and fall apart pretty quickly

anyone who thinks otherwise and says boston are a better team with out rondo is just loud mouthing it for attention and making claims with no substance and should be ignored indefinitely.

[unknowns8]

They're going to have to get some younger bigs. I'm guessing that KG and Pierce may be done there.

The team will be better when Rondo gets back, obviously. But without a serious infusion of youth, its hard to see them improving by much.

In addition to Sullinger, you mean?

Sully/Green/Rondo seem a decent enough youth infusion to me

[Djahjaga]

They're going to have to get some younger bigs. I'm guessing that KG and Pierce may be done there.

The team will be better when Rondo gets back, obviously. But without a serious infusion of youth, its hard to see them improving by much.

I think the youth is there, we just have to find a way to shift the focus of the team more onto them. Right now it's really hard because without Pierce, we can't score on mismatches that well and without Garnett, we can't defend for shit.

But the youth is there. Rondo, Bradley, Green, Sullinger are all good players. We just need to find a way to make it work.

Obviously, the best solution would be to sign some young, capable bigs, but those, as we know, aren't everywhere. And we need them to be capable of organizing the team defense when Garnett comes off the court.

How many bigs like that are there? Bigs that can coordinate an entire team defensive scheme, cover pick and rolls, rotate to help, block and deter shots, etc.? Asik is one, but Morey smartly locked him up. Who else? Joakim Noah, obviously, but he's locked up for another 3 years. Chandler? Locked up. Hibbert? Locked up. MARC GASOL (he's in caps because I would LOVE him on the Cs) -- locked up.

This is why all the calls to "blow it up" are so infuriating. What can we get for KG that is actually worth it? Unless we're getting first round picks, no trade involving KG is going to benefit us. Better to let him retire.

Pierce is another story. It'd be great if half of our offensive sets didn't rely on him having to make something out of nothing. 25-26-27 year old Pierce would be great for that. 35 year old Pierce can only do so much.

There's just no clear way to get new players of the sort we need. We have to get lucky in the draft or in free agency. The lopsided trades of old aren't gonna happen anymore, as we saw at the trade deadline.