Dark Horse to Win the East....TORONTO

[RAPSCANWIN]

How could you not...

1. A Bonified Superstar...Bosh

2. Total Team, Unselfish play

3. One of the best benches in the league

4. One of the best point gaurd combos in the league. Ford & Calderon

5. First in the Atlantic and Surging ahead and improving every game.

6. Colangelo could be GM of the year again.

7. All this with a percieved Lame duck coach.

It would be Undeserving not to call them a Dark Horse at this point.

[Skywalker]

you shouldn't make threads like these man, it generates hate for the Raps

watch, next post will be hate

[DoubleTech]

hate.

[JtotheIzzo]

If the Nets weren't getting daggers through their hearts at the end of every game (most recently by AI's lil sister, Ty Lue) they'd be a few games up on the Raps so lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

A lot of ball left to play and three 'rookies' playing big minutes for the Raptors they may hit their proverbial wall and have a losing skid.

Raptors fans may take exception to you jinxing them, but I personally like your moxie.

You remind me of a young Tom Connors from Skinner's Pond.

[GOBB]

And so it begins. This topic would have been better in the team forum.

[DoubleTech]

seriously though i don't think we can win the east... it's TOO Much of a big step to go from #1 pick to winning the conference... stuff like that just doesn't happen.

i definitely think we can hang onto our fourth seed and challenge for the third... thats as good as it's going to get though.

[j Fresh]

Good thread. The guy who made this thread didn't come out as a jerk, he wasn't immature like the typical Raptor fan ussually is, he just made some statements, gave all his reasons... there is no reason to hate the guy. But you could however... ROFL! Raptors win the East? :lol: :roll: :roll: that's a good one!!! What's next? Steve Nash winning an MVP award?? ..... :rollingeyes: :ohwell: :( oh wait.......:mad: :banghead: :wtf:

[RAPSCANWIN]

If the Nets weren't getting daggers through their hearts at the end of every game (most recently by AI's lil sister, Ty Lue) they'd be a few games up on the Raps so lets not get ahead of ourselves just yet.

A lot of ball left to play and three 'rookies' playing big minutes for the Raptors they may hit their proverbial wall and have a losing skid.

Raptors fans may take exception to you jinxing them, but I personally like your moxie.

You remind me of a young Tom Connors from Skinner's Pond.

If I didnt bring up the post, someone else would.

I like the Stomping Tom reference.
:cheers:

[kwajo]

you shouldn't make threads like these man, it generates hate for the Raps

watch, next post will be hate
yup. delete this thread please.

[Skywalker]

ROFL! Raptors win the East?

The Knicks will win the east, right?

[j Fresh]

The Knicks will win the east, right?

No doubt my brotha'

[kwajo]

hmmm, I guess a thread with Stompin' Tom can't be all bad, he is from Saint John after all :pimp:

http://www.pegusisfreeware.com/musicdb/images/stoppin_tom.jpg

I retract my 'delete' statement

[RAPSCANWIN]

seriously though i don't think we can win the east... it's TOO Much of a big step to go from #1 pick to winning the conference... stuff like that just doesn't happen.

i definitely think we can hang onto our fourth seed and challenge for the third... thats as good as it's going to get though.

I just don't see anyone else dominating the east, as long as they avoid the Bulls in the Playoffs then they have a shot...albeit a long one.

[j Fresh]

I just don't see anyone else dominating the east, as long as they avoid the Bulls in the Playoffs then they have a shot...albeit a long one.

one thing you Raptor fans don't understand, is that the Playoffs is a diffrent animal. You can't just say 'oh if we face this team in the playoffs we will be alright' no it doesn't work that way. Look at the Pistons last year, best team in the league and then the almost lost to the Cavaliers in 7 games. There are so many examples, the Raptors are too young to understand this right now.. it takes time.

[JohnnySic]

They wont be a dark horse, they'll be a sacraficial lamb.

[j Fresh]

They wont be a dark horse, they'll be a sacraficial lamb.

:lol: you have the weirdest avatar

[bonez26]

There are so many examples, the Raptors are too young to understand this right now.. it takes time

People keep bringing this up but if you take a close look at the roster it's not so much a factor.

Garbajosa is 28 playued in the european championships which is like the equivalent to the playoffs here for years. Parker the same and Bargnani is younger but has still gone. Calderon Ditto.

Mo Pete has been there before twice with the Raps.

Fred Jones with Idinana a few times.

TJ Ford Last year with the Bucks.

Basically the only ones who haven't already been to the playoffs are Bosh, Graham, Humphries, Sow, Slokar...the last three barely play anyways.

As I said this will not be as big of a factor as most people think. But that's just IMO.

[Skywalker]

Knicks and Celtics fans hating, they wish they were in our shoes :lol:

[Valliant13]

The Rap are my team but I can't see them getting past detroit in 7 game series.
I can see them pulling a first round upset, and I think they will win their crappy division, but that's as far as they will likely go this year.

Still compared to last year thats like them winning a title.

[DeuceWallaces]

1. A Bonified Superstar...Bosh

2. Total Team, Unselfish play

3. One of the best benches in the league

4. One of the best point gaurd combos in the league. Ford & Calderon

5. First in the Atlantic and Surging ahead and improving every game.

6. Colangelo could be GM of the year again.

7. All this with a percieved Lame duck coach.

Defense?

[JohnnySic]

Knicks and Celtics fans hating, they wish they were in our shoes
No thanks. I'll take a high draft pick in this upcoming draft over a first-round KO any day.

[Skywalker]

TJ Ford
Mo Peterson
Anthony Parker
Rasho Nesterovic
Jorge Garbajosa

all play good D, IMO

[Skywalker]

No thanks. I'll take a high draft pick in this upcoming draft over a first-round KO any day.

:roll:

you WISH you were winning the Atlantic, but you aren't so you say that

You are what we were in 2003, a sh!t team with an all star swing man, and scrubs. We have our high pick from a great draft, he's starting in the all star game. So, we're three years ahead. With a better GM as well. Good luck with your situation.

[i seen hippos]

They wont be a dark horse, they'll be a sacraficial lamb.

Stern said we could offer the Celts as a sacrifice instead.

Second round here we come!:banana:

[All Net]

Raptors would get smoked by Pistons and Miami in a 7 game series.

[i seen hippos]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raptors would get smoked by Pistons and Miami in a 7 game series.

Wouldn't be till second round probably at the earliest. Detroit will be the top seed and Miami is either gonna end up being in the top 4 or 7th/8th.

[Orealius]

NO chance against Detroit, Miami or Chicago in a 7 game series. Against any other team, there is hope. I just wanna get to the playoffs first.

[saKf]

If all Canadian basketball teams were divided into two conferences, and one of those conferences were called "the East," and the Raptors were in that conference...

Then yes. They certainly could win the East.

[i seen hippos]

I don't think we'll win the East, but I like your enthusiasm, Safka.

[power works]

Whoa

[AI Nuggets3]

i dont even think my Nuggets have a great shot at leaving the first round and they've got better offense and defense than Toronto by far. (which isnt saying much)

it is the east tho....u never know, but i can't see Toronto winning more than 1 game in the first round.

[kwajo]

One of the main reasons for the recent success has been defence and rebounding. Rasho, Garbo and AP are all good defenders. Rasho in particular clogs the middle, and frees up Bosh from not guarding the best low post players of the other team.

This is the key. Rasho is the darkhorse, not the Raptors.

[VCDrivesAPorscheToWork]

[QUOTE=RAPSCANWIN]How could you not...

1. A Bonified Superstar...Bosh
spelled "bona fide." but you have a legitimate point
2. Total Team, Unselfish play
as of right now.
3. One of the best benches in the league
true. second best backup PG.
4. One of the best point gaurd combos in the league. Ford & Calderon
best is the wrong word. effective is more apt
5. First in the Atlantic and Surging ahead and improving every game.
uhh... you are beating bad teams right now.
6. Colangelo could be GM of the year again.
agreed
7. All this with a percieved Lame duck coach.
he is a lame duck coach
It would be Undeserving not to call them a Dark Horse at this point.



Dark Horse if you wish to be play around with technical terms but I think are Pistons winning it this year

[i seen hippos]

Raptors outcomes against potential playoff teams:

Detroit: 4-2 series loss
Miami: 4-1 series loss
Chicago: 4-1 series loss
Indiana: 4-2 series loss
Washington: 4-3 series loss
Cleveland: 4-2 series win
Orlando: 4-1 series win
NJ: 4-3 series win

[haterofhaters]

one thing you Raptor fans don't understand, is that the Playoffs is a diffrent animal. You can't just say 'oh if we face this team in the playoffs we will be alright' no it doesn't work that way. Look at the Pistons last year, best team in the league and then the almost lost to the Cavaliers in 7 games. There are so many examples, the Raptors are too young to understand this right now.. it takes time.

I think it's fair to say that the Raps and their fans will be happy just to be back IN the playoffs after missing it for so many years. And the only teams in the east with real playoff vets are the Heat and the Pistons...

[Skywalker]

real playoff vets are the Heat and the Pistons

Nets, Pacers both have playoff vets.

[haterofhaters]

Nets, Pacers both have playoff vets.

Nets are absolute garbage. The only TRUE playoff vet is J-Kidd. You can also throw Uncle Cliff into that category but Chris bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cliff Robinson.

Pacers have been in the playoffs for some years but I wouldn't really call anyone on the team right now a playoff vet with the exception of Darrell Armstrong who barely plays.

[Cannonball]

Raptors outcomes against potential playoff teams:

Detroit: 4-2 series loss
Miami: 4-1 series loss
Chicago: 4-1 series loss
Indiana: 4-2 series loss
Washington: 4-3 series loss
Cleveland: 4-2 series win
Orlando: 4-1 series win
NJ: 4-3 series win


you think the raps can take the cavs in 7? LOL noway lebron>bosh

Even tho I love bosh.

[Skywalker]

Chris bosh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cliff Robinson.

wtf?


you think the raps can take the cavs in 7? LOL noway lebron>bosh

Cavs team is a mess. Isn't the season series 2-0 Raps?

[i seen hippos]

It's 1-1....thanks to a choke job by Toronto in Cleveland. Toronto has basically dominated them both games.

[haterofhaters]

wtf?

?
Ok buddy. Care to explain who you think are playoff Vets on the nets and the pacers other than Kidd, Cliff Robinson, and Darrell Armstrong.

[huppcap]

As a Raptor fan and follower I would say they would be a very dark horse to win the east. Without any playoff experience together I can't see the Raptors making it past the first round. It will be just great for them to make the playoffs and get some experience. If they could get a win or two in the playoffs that would be good.

Let's not get to ahead of ourselves. They have not won many games against solid teams this year. Some of the teams that they beat that could be considered solid teams had injuries.

Yes they have what I believe to be on of the best if not best PG combinations in the NBA and one of the best GMs. They have an unselfish rising star(s) and team. They have done better so far than most critics and publications predicted. It will be nice if they make the playoffs and prove all of them wrong. Only 2 wins away from last year's total; great.

I will take the long-term view. They certainly could very well challange for the East a couple of seasons from now. Bargnani, Bosh and Ford in a season or two could be a scary 3 to play against.

[haterofhaters]

Like I said, the only 2 teams that I see the Raptors being a likely loss to in the east are Miami and Detroit. They most likely won't see Detroit in the first round unless Toronto falls out of the Atlantic division lead.. and i'm not sure about miami. They're kind of floating around in the bottom of the standings.

[huppcap]

you think the raps can take the cavs in 7? LOL noway lebron>bosh

Even tho I love bosh.

Last I checked this is a team game.

Lebron may well be perceived to be better than Bosh. Regardless there are 4 other starters and also the bench. The Raptors it could be argued have the better bench than the Cavs. They certainly have way better PGs.

The Cavs have got worse as the season has gone on and the Raptors have got better as a team as the season has gone on.

So it may not be a huge stretch to think the Raptors could beat the Cavs in 7. Anything is possible.

[Skywalker]

Ok buddy. Care to explain who you think are playoff Vets on the nets and the pacers other than Kidd, Cliff Robinson, and Darrell Armstrong.

Jermaine O'Neal. And my "wtf?" comment wasn't about you thinking there weren't many playoff vets on either team, it was about you out of no where saying "CB4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson". Thanks man, I wasn't sure who was better.

[haterofhaters]

Jermaine O'Neal. And my "wtf?" comment wasn't about you thinking there weren't many playoff vets on either team, it was about you out of no where saying "CB4 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robinson". Thanks man, I wasn't sure who was better.

So tell me. What's the farthest Jermaine O'neal has ever gotten in the playoffs (as the best player on the team)and how far has he carried his team before?? In addition to that, the current team that they have is loaded with young players and new additions.

So therefore, the east is STILL a total tossup.

[Howard5Dirk41]

you shouldn't make threads like these man, it generates hate for the Raps

watch, next post will be hate

You gotta win something before you can be hated on :lol:

[boozehound]

So tell me. What's the farthest Jermaine O'neal has ever gotten in the playoffs (as the best player on the team)and how far has he carried his team before?? In addition to that, the current team that they have is loaded with young players and new additions.

So therefore, the east is STILL a total tossup.
well the got to the east finals with him starting.
and jeff foster as a starter and al harington as the 6th man...doh

SO there you go. 2/5ths of a starting lineup that played in the conference finals againt the eventual champs. Very entertaining and close series as well.

Not that I disagree that the east is pretty wide open. I just dont think the raps can get it done this year.

[haterofhaters]

well the got to the east finals with him starting.
and jeff foster as a starter and al harington as the 6th man...doh

SO there you go. 2/5ths of a starting lineup that played in the conference finals againt the eventual champs. Very entertaining and close series as well.

Not that I disagree that the east is pretty wide open. I just dont think the raps can get it done this year.

I'm not gonna sit here and say I think the Raps will win a championship, or even an EC finals appearance, but what I am saying is that they can definitely take anyone in the first and possible even the second round.

[Howard5Dirk41]

I'm not gonna sit here and say I think the Raps will win a championship, or even an EC finals appearance, but what I am saying is that they can definitely take anyone in the first and possible even the second round.

oh please sit here and say the Raps will win a title so we can all laugh at you.

The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.

[Skywalker]

You gotta win something before you can be hated on

K won't hate on the Mavs then.


The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.

did you not just say you have to win something to be hated on? now you're hating.

clown

[A Roc 23]

Little known facts:

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

Some other things to consider: Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.

[Howard5Dirk41]

K won't hate on the Mavs then.



did you not just say you have to win something to be hated on? now you're hating.

clown


No thats called facts, not hating

clown.

I like Chris Bosh since hes from my part of the world, but hes just a nice player. He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves.

[haterofhaters]

Little known facts:

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

Some other things to consider: Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.

Thank you!! exactly.

[Skywalker]

He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves.

Bryan Colangelo or Kevin McHale, who do you pick?

[niko]

Tomorrow, Raptors vs. Pistons and Pistons with Home Court?

Pistons in 5 or 6 max. Seriously, that's not even close. Throw out numbers, whatever, a young team like that, in Detroit, they'll get grinded and spit out.

[haterofhaters]

Tomorrow, Raptors vs. Pistons and Pistons with Home Court?

Pistons in 5 or 6 max. Seriously, that's not even close. Throw out numbers, whatever, a young team like that, in Detroit, they'll get grinded and spit out.

everyone is in agreement that Detroit and Miami would handle Toronto. the disagreement comes with people saying that teams like Indy, Washington, Cleveland and NJ would like beat Toronto in a first round series.

[RAPSCANWIN]

oh please sit here and say the Raps will win a title so we can all laugh at you.

The Raptors are YEARS away from winning a title, IF EVER.

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.

Thats taking it a bit far, Its a little arrogant for you to say any team can or cannot win a title in the future.

For the record " A darkhorse team is one who isnt expected to win but comes from no-where to win". T.O. definitely will have come from no where. Winning...thats another thing, but in the East anything is possible and I don't think Toronto is finished improving this season.

[All Net]

Toronto fans should just be proud that they can go to their team's games and know they can compete and win games. Where before that was never an option. Winning it all or even coming close to winning the east is the last thing that should be on their minds.

[bigdog13]

So rapswin you are still saying that the Raptors are not guaranteed to win the east just that they are the dark horse. Like everyone else has argued, the Pistons are still the odds-on favourite to win.

[MTing]

Biased

[RAPSCANWIN]

Little known facts:

- the Raptors have the 2nd fewest loses to eastern conference teams in the East
- the Raptors have essentially the 3rd best record against the East.
- the Raptors have played less games against the East then any other team in the East.

Now there is no way they beat the Pistons and Heat because of many reasons. I don't think they could beat the Bulls because of matchup reasons.

Other then that, I wouldn't bet against them. They handled the Wizards twice (leading by as many as 20 in both games). They controlled both games against the Cavaliers, and Cleveland has only gotten worse. They **** kicked the Magic, and the Magic suck even worse now. The only team that really beat them good were the Pacers, who they are 1-1 with.

Some other things to consider: Bosh's averages 30+ points per game against Rasheed Wallace and 25+ against Webber, both loses to the Bulls were by 1-4 points and the Heat are 1 Shaq or Wade inury away from being an easy playoff win.

Someone who sees the East for what it is....Up for grabs.:applause:

[RAPSCANWIN]

So rapswin you are still saying that the Raptors are not guaranteed to win the east just that they are the dark horse. Like everyone else has argued, the Pistons are still the odds-on favourite to win.

Whats your point.

[GOBB]

Thread turned out how i predicted. Bunch of Raps fans.


Whats your point.

He doesnt have one.

[ChuckOakley]

I've finally come to terms with the fact Toronto will most likely win the division, but I see no way the Raps could win the East.

The main reasons: Detroit and Miami.

Come playoff time, these two teams will be poised to make a run for the finals, and both will have enough confidence in themselves to think they can win it all.

I also don't see Toronto beating Cleveland since Cleveland is arguably the better team, but also because of the treatment LBJ will receive from the refs.

Chicago would be a tough test, but I'm not that intimidated by them if I'm Toronto. Chicago still needs to address their lack of an interior scorer and they are also a young fairly inexperienced team. BUT.. given the experience Chicago gained the last two years and Ben Wallace I give them the edge.

Toronto as the 4 seed would most likely have to play Cleveland or Chicago in the 1st round, which again will not be easy, and then the top seed (most likely Detroit. In the ECF finals they would face either Miami, or whatever team was playing well enough to the get there.

Toronto needs to a. make the postseason b. peak at the right time and c. face teams who are not playing their best to make the Finals.

Out of the 8 teams that make the playoffs in the East I would put them in the following order of most likely making the Finals

Detroit 30%
Miami 30%
Chicago 10%
Cleveland 10%
Washington 5%
Toronto 5%
Indiana 5%
Orlando 5%

Rough estimate obviously, but gives an idea of the favorites.

[The Italian]

If the Raps face Cleveland in the first round, then I think that they would be able to beat them. They won't be able to beat Miami, Detroit or Chicago (based on match up problems) in a series. Any other team is a toss-up. I'm am by no means saying that they will be able to win the East. Detroit or Miami will win the East but other then those two teams anything can happen.

[power works]

Bosh is a nice player, but I dont look at him as a player that can win championships for a franchise, sorry.

NBA rings: Nowitzki = 0, Bosh = 0. :confusedshrug:


I like Chris Bosh since hes from my part of the world, but hes just a nice player. He will never be as good as KG and look where thats gotten the TWolves

There's a good reason why KG hasn't won anything. His name is McHale. :rollingeyes:

[A Roc 23]

NBA rings: Nowitzki = 0, Bosh = 0. :confusedshrug:


Number of times being in the finals and shooting at least 40% overall:

Nowitzki = 0 Bosh = 0

[i seen hippos]

Number of major choke jobs?

Nowitzki = 1 Bosh = 0.

This could get ugly.

[GoRapz]

If threadstarter means Raptors making it to the finals...please stop it with the homerism. We're 2 games over 500, get a reality check. The intensity in the playoffs is much harder than regular season games.

Lets focus on making the playoffs before we talk about the finals.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Chris Bosh is a nice player, but not a franchise player, all the Raptor fans on here try to fool us into thinking he is, well hes a reality check, hes not!

[knickscity]

If threadstarter means Raptors making it to the finals...please stop it with the homerism. We're 2 games over 500, get a reality check. The intensity in the playoffs is much harder than regular season games.

Lets focus on making the playoffs before we talk about the finals.

One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.

[DoubleTech]

Chris Bosh is a nice player, but not a franchise player, all the Raptor fans on here try to fool us into thinking he is, well hes a reality check, hes not!


what makes him NOT a franchise player? im just curious... you obviously have some reasoning behind this, you're not just talking out of your @ss right?

how many non-franchise players have been on the allstar team twice before they turned 23? just curious...

this explanation better be good...

[knickscity]

what makes him NOT a franchise player? im just curious... you obviously have some reasoning behind this, you're not just talking out of your @ss right?

how many non-franchise players have been on the allstar team twice before they turned 23? just curious...

this explanation better be good...

Bosh is a franchise player. There is no argument there. he is talking out of his a$$
Back to the thread a DARKHORSE usually means having the least shot or most unlikely to do it BUT MIGHT. They fit that category, but in the east they are better than a darkhorse. Although lack of playoff experience may hurt them if they played Det or Miami first round.

[The Italian]

One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.

Whos the other sensible Raps fan? Because there are a lot more then two.

[brwnman]

One of two sensible Raps fans. Kudos for you.
Actually there are many sensible Raptors' fans, but then there are alot of Raptors' fans who are homers and can't see their player get hated on, fairly or unfairly, and blow everything out of proportion...

[knickscity]

Actually there are many sensible Raptors' fans, but then there are alot of Raptors' fans who are homers and can't see their player get hated on, fairly or unfairly, and blow everything out of proportion...
Maybe...

[brwnman]

Maybe...

nope, it's a fact...

[knickscity]

nope, it's a fact...
I'm not going there with you. The Raps are better than a dark horse. Anyone catching fire can come out of the east.

[brwnman]

I'm not going there with you. The Raps are better than a dark horse. Anyone catching fire can come out of the east.

I am not really sure what you mean, but I don't think there is any chance that the Raptors win the east, not this year...

[knickscity]

I am not really sure what you mean, but I don't think there is any chance that the Raptors win the east, not this year...

What i meant was that they are playing just as well as anyone in the East right now, so based on that they are better than a darkhorse.

[Rameek]

The Raptors better win as much as they can right now... They are playing well despite losing TJ. The other Atlantic teams are depleted and still finding there way....
Its not that Raptors are so good as much as other teams are so injured!

:banana:

[A Roc 23]

Its not that Raptors are so good as much as other teams are so injured!

:banana:


Not true, they have the 12th best record in the whole league.

Yes, even in the West they would be in the playoffs. In fact half of their games have been against the West so far.

[jaja]

Not true, they have the 12th best record in the whole league.

Yes, even in the West they would be in the playoffs. In fact half of their games have been against the West so far.

they are only 30 teams in the league. the 12th best record isnt that great. and it can slip away easily

[Sham]

This thread isn't very shocking. There's always a bunch of idiot Raptor fans around that start creaming in their pants when the Raptors go on a mini win streak. We are barely past they half way point, we're 25-23, and this guy is talking about winning the east?

Teams like Detroit, Chicago, Miami, will whoop us in a 7 game playoff series. Playoffs is a completely different ball game. Nothing like the regular season. It's the time when coaching becomes a big factor. We have Sam Mitchell....enough said. You think he is smart enough to go head to head with Pat Riley, Scott Skiles, or Flip Saunders??? Think again.

Raptors will most likely win the Titanic, but let's not get carried away...

This is coming from a die hard raptor fan too.

[A Roc 23]

they are only 30 teams in the league. the 12th best record isnt that great. and it can slip away easily

For a team that started 7-14 it is damn good. For a team that was missing their franchise player, a 23/11 guy for 12 games it is damn good.

12th best record is a damn good achievement considering they are only 4 games back of #1 in the East. I'm not saying they'll get there, but they are only 4 games back of being the #1 seed after winning the lottery last year.

Huge jump.

[PureElement]

For a team that started 7-14 it is damn good.

If they were good they wouldn't have started 7-14.



For a team that was missing their franchise player, a 23/11 guy for 12 games it is damn good.

Theres been alot of injured teams. Shaq has been missing for who knows how long. Yao's been missing longer. Redd's been missing a long time. PP, Lewis, Odom, the list goes on and on.


12th best record is a damn good achievement considering they are only 4 games back of #1 in the East.

woot, woot, the east!


Huge jump.

Yup.

[bokes15]

If they were good they wouldn't have started 7-14.

Yup.

It's not about how you start, it's how you finish.

[The Italian]

If they were good they wouldn't have started 7-14.



Theres been alot of injured teams. Shaq has been missing for who knows how long. Yao's been missing longer. Redd's been missing a long time. PP, Lewis, Odom, the list goes on and on.



woot, woot, the east!



Yup.


Yao hasn't been missing longer then Shaq has he? While I agree that this thread wasn't really the best idea to start but nobody can say that they expected the Raps to have the 12th best record in the league. Also nobody would have thought that they would be only 4 games back of first in the East. I am by no means saying that they will win the East, I will be happy with a division title, but you have to admit that the Raps are playing good basketball since there bad start.



Going by your logic then Pheonix isn't a good team either since they started 1-5.

[knickscity]

This thread isn't very shocking. There's always a bunch of idiot Raptor fans around that start creaming in their pants when the Raptors go on a mini win streak. We are barely past they half way point, we're 25-23, and this guy is talking about winning the east?

Teams like Detroit, Chicago, Miami, will whoop us in a 7 game playoff series. Playoffs is a completely different ball game. Nothing like the regular season. It's the time when coaching becomes a big factor. We have Sam Mitchell....enough said. You think he is smart enough to go head to head with Pat Riley, Scott Skiles, or Flip Saunders??? Think again.

Raptors will most likely win the Titanic, but let's not get carried away...

This is coming from a die hard raptor fan too.

You make the 4th sensible Raps fan. Kudos to you to.

[ALBballer]

Are you guys comparing seriously comparing Bosh with Dirk, or was it sarcasm?

[bokes15]

You make the 4th sensible Raps fan. Kudos to you to.
What are you talking about. All Raptors fans realize that it'd be a long shot to beat teams like Detroit, Miami, and Chicago... but I think it's fair to say that we have a shot against the Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, or NJ in the playoffs.

[i seen hippos]

We were just pointing out how much of a choker Dirk is....and that he hasn't done anything significant that Bosh hasn't...well that's what I percieved was going on at least...

But no one is saying Bosh is on Dirk's level.....i think.

Hope that cleared things up.

[knickscity]

What are you talking about. All Raptors fans realize that it'd be a long shot to beat teams like Detroit, Miami, and Chicago... but I think it's fair to say that we have a shot against the Washington, Cleveland, Indiana, or NJ in the playoffs.

No..... all Raps fan do not realize that. You gotta make the playoffs first...and even the thread starter is talking about the possibility of winning the east. That would be putting the Raptors in the NBA Finals. Mighty strong stretch wouldn't you think???:confusedshrug:

[ALBballer]

We were just pointing out how much of a choker Dirk is....and that he hasn't done anything significant that Bosh hasn't...well that's what I percieved was going on at least...

But no one is saying Bosh is on Dirk's level.....i think.

Hope that cleared things up.

Wow. Ummm done anything significant, how about getting to the playoffs then maybe you can mention Bosh in the same sentence as Dirk, maybe. BTW, he had a bad series, shyt happens and you move on. But I guess you didn't call him a choker win he tied the game against the Spurs or when he killed Phoenix.

[i seen hippos]

You're humourless.

[DoubleTech]

If they were good they wouldn't have started 7-14.

Theres been alot of injured teams. Shaq has been missing for who knows how long. Yao's been missing longer. Redd's been missing a long time. PP, Lewis, Odom, the list goes on and on.

woot, woot, the east!

Yup.

you're not very bright... and im only basing that on all i have to judge you on... your misguided comments.

we wouldn't have started off 7-14 if we weren't very good? would a bad team have gone 18-9 after that?

oh yea... and when you have 9 new team members, how good of a start are you expected to have? you don't think they needed time to gel? the only starter remaining from last year's squad is bosh.... the other four starters were playing in san antonio, israel, milwuakee and spain last season... but i suppose you just expected them to click immediately...i'm expecting an answer so you better come up with a good one.

then there is your next comment about injuries... bosh was out for the entire month of december, that's 1/3 of the season so far... how can you compare that to the heat who had d-wade still in the lineup?? does toronto have anyone on wade's level to step up when bosh went down? how about yao? do we have anyone like tmac who can step up and take charge? redd, PP and shard's teams are all in the basement of the league, while the raptors currently have home court in the first round, so that comparison is idiotic, toronto was a good enough time to survive without their allstar, the bucks, celts and sonics were not. (but in all due fairness, milwuakee has had injuries to every position, doesn't help your arguement though)

lamar odom? when he's on bosh's level, let me know... and they still had kobe bryant suiting up for them every game last time i checked.

don't post crap about things you CLEARLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT, like basketball.

[ALBballer]

I think I'm as good as Dirk, ya know. I never choked away a playoff game and I'm actually undefeated in the playoffs. I'm so f-cking good I haven't missed a shot in the playoffs or let my opponent score on me.

[A Roc 23]

If they were good they wouldn't have started 7-14.

Theres been alot of injured teams. Shaq has been missing for who knows how long. Yao's been missing longer. Redd's been missing a long time. PP, Lewis, Odom, the list goes on and on.

woot, woot, the east!

Yup.

They started 7-14 because they had 9 new players and went through an extremely difficult Western road swing.

Shaq, Redd, PP, Lewis are all on teams with significantly worse records then the Raptors. What's your point? I didn't use it as an excuse, but it is a reason they might be better then their record. Not much better but it's worth mentioning.

woot, woot, the east? Lame. As I already said they've played half their games against the West and would be in the playoffs in the West. What more do you want from a team who's 3 best players are under 22? A team with the most new players this season and a very young nucleus. 25 wins 48 games into the season is a huge jump.

The **** is a dude from Edmonton cheering for the Rockets anyway? :roll:

[A Roc 23]

I think I'm as good as Dirk, ya know. I never choked away a playoff game and I'm actually undefeated in the playoffs. I'm so f-cking good I haven't missed a shot in the playoffs or let my opponent score on me.

Dude, we were clearly screwing with HowardDirk. Chill out.

[Sham]

The **** is a dude from Edmonton cheering for the Rockets anyway? :roll:

He's a disgrace to Canada. Ban him.

[Sham]

Are you guys comparing seriously comparing Bosh with Dirk, or was it sarcasm?

Bosh > Irk.

[bokes15]

No..... all Raps fan do not realize that. You gotta make the playoffs first...and even the thread starter is talking about the possibility of winning the east. That would be putting the Raptors in the NBA Finals. Mighty strong stretch wouldn't you think???:confusedshrug:

All we have to do to make the playoffs is to stay atop the Atlantic division. We've done a pretty good job of that so far.
Toronto 25-23
NJ - 22-27
NY- 21-28
and the other 2 aren't even in the race...
So call it what you will, but it looks like even finishing .500 the rest of the way would put us in a playoff spot.. Winning the east? not likely if we face the Pistons or Heat, but even then it's still possible.

[reppy]

How could you not...

1. A Bonified Superstar...Bosh

2. Total Team, Unselfish play

3. One of the best benches in the league

4. One of the best point gaurd combos in the league. Ford & Calderon

5. First in the Atlantic and Surging ahead and improving every game.

6. Colangelo could be GM of the year again.

7. All this with a percieved Lame duck coach.

It would be Undeserving not to call them a Dark Horse at this point.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9295/1170736850052yq4.jpg

[Bourne]

I cringed when I saw this thread. Then I laughed my ASS off when I say philly beat NJ.

[RAPSCANWIN]

Bosh is a franchise player. There is no argument there. he is talking out of his a$$
Back to the thread a DARKHORSE usually means having the least shot or most unlikely to do it BUT MIGHT. They fit that category, but in the east they are better than a darkhorse. Although lack of playoff experience may hurt them if they played Det or Miami first round.

Exactly

[RAPSCANWIN]

Lets get the record straight here, I didnt say they were going to win the east. I said they were a dark horse, how many times has a dark actually won. not many!!!!!
They werent a dark at the beginning of the season, they are now. No they dont match up well with Miami and especially Chicago. Detroit im not so sure, we'll find out soon when they play. And yes they don't have a lot of NBA playoff experience, but you have to start somewhere.

And to those comparing Bosh and Dirk. Dirk only wishes he was as a complete and good a player as Bosh is in only his early 20s.

Glad this thread got people thinking about the Raps and how fast they're coming on.

[Gregsguys]

Toronto would definitely be classified as a dark horse.....and as darkhorses go I would say they have as good a shot in the east as the other darkhorses such as Orlando, Pacers, Knicks, etc.

[Bourne]

:roll: the entire ****ing Eastern Conference is a darkhorse to win the conference.

[Gregsguys]

:roll: the entire ****ing Eastern Conference is a darkhorse to win the conference.

Yah I'd put the Bulls, Pistons and Cavs in that category, hey lets throw Miami in too.

[boozehound]

:roll: the entire ****ing Eastern Conference is a darkhorse to win the conference.
:roll: I would agree with John Barry that Indiana is really the potential upsetter in the East. Other than them, itll be Pistons, Bulls, Maybe Miami, Maybe Cavs.

[Howard5Dirk41]

We were just pointing out how much of a choker Dirk is....and that he hasn't done anything significant that Bosh hasn't...well that's what I percieved was going on at least...

But no one is saying Bosh is on Dirk's level.....i think.

Hope that cleared things up.

Yea, Dirk hasnt taken his team to the NBA Finals or anything...

Chris Bosh has done N-O-T-H-I-N-G yet, and you people wanna crown his ass. Halarious.

Dirk was the NBA MVP last season and is this season, if he actually gets the award is a different story, but most people know hes the MVP.

[Skywalker]

Dirk was the NBA MVP last season

lie much?

[The Italian]

Yea, Dirk hasnt taken his team to the NBA Finals or anything...

Chris Bosh has done N-O-T-H-I-N-G yet, and you people wanna crown his ass. Halarious.

Dirk was the NBA MVP last season and is this season, if he actually gets the award is a different story, but most people know hes the MVP.


I am pretty sure Steve Nash was but if you said Dirk was it must be true:rolleyes:


Look at the talent difference in the Raps and Mavs teams in the past couple of years. Also how much longer has Dirk been in the league then Bosh?

[Howard5Dirk41]

I am pretty sure Steve Nash was but if you said Dirk was it must be true:rolleyes:


Look at the talent difference in the Raps and Mavs teams in the past couple of years. Also how much longer has Dirk been in the league then Bosh?



You two are both retarded, did you not read " if he gets the award or not is a different story." Obviously I was implying last season as well.

Learn to read next time.

[DoubleTech]

Yea, Dirk hasnt taken his team to the NBA Finals or anything...

Chris Bosh has done N-O-T-H-I-N-G yet, and you people wanna crown his ass. Halarious.

Dirk was the NBA MVP last season and is this season, if he actually gets the award is a different story, but most people know hes the MVP.


chris bosh is 22 years old... how old was dirk when he was considered an MVP candidate?

an uhh, dirk didn't win sh!t last year other than the 3 point contest at the all star game... check the trophy case at his house if you think i'm incorrect. just because he's YOUR mvp doesn't make him THE mvp...

it's like all those folks who voted for Kerry or whoever ran against Bush in the elections... he may have been THEIR candidate but bush is certainly THE president.

[Howard5Dirk41]

chris bosh is 22 years old... how old was dirk when he was considered an MVP candidate?

an uhh, dirk didn't win sh!t last year other than the 3 point contest at the all star game... check the trophy case at his house if you think i'm incorrect. just because he's YOUR mvp doesn't make him THE mvp...

it's like all those folks who voted for Kerry or whoever ran against Bush in the elections... he may have been THEIR candidate but bush is certainly THE president.

I'd say he was 24 when first thought of as a MVP Candidate... but I dont see Bosh becoming an MVP Candidate in the next two years for sure, if ever.

Bosh is a nice player, will go to multiple all-star games but nothing stands out about him to me.

[i seen hippos]

Dirk only became an MVP candidate last year.:roll:

And as someone else said, there trophy cases look pretty similar.

I was joking previously, but you're dillusional if you think a guy that has never won **** can be placed on some sort of pedestal.

[boozehound]

Dirk only became an MVP candidate last year.:roll:

co sign

Isnt it funny how JHo is an allstar when it suits the Mav fans purposes, but then Dirk "carried" a weak team with only role players into the finals. Give me a break. Hes a great player, prob the best shooting big but get off his nuts. Yall remind me of the grady fans back in orlando days (at least dirk can get out of the first round)

[Howard5Dirk41]

Mavs in 02-03 won 60 games including their first 14.

Dirk averaged 25 and 10, I'd say he was an MVP Candidate that year.

In 04-05 he was 3rd, and was 3rd in 05-06.

So last year was the wrong answer sorry.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Dirk only became an MVP candidate last year.:roll:

And as someone else said, there trophy cases look pretty similar.

I was joking previously, but you're dillusional if you think a guy that has never won **** can be placed on some sort of pedestal.

Thats a funny statement, considering that Raptor fans put Bosh on a pedestal when hes done much less than Dirk.

Mavs in 02-03 won 60 games including their first 14.

Dirk averaged 25 and 10, I'd say he was an MVP Candidate that year.

In 04-05 he was 3rd, and was 3rd in 05-06.

So last year was the wrong answer sorry.

[haterofhaters]

Thats a funny statement, considering that Raptor fans put Bosh on a pedestal when hes done much less than Dirk.

Mavs in 02-03 won 60 games including their first 14.


So last year was the wrong answer sorry.

Here's a look at the 2002-03 team. I think it was more than just dirk who gave them 60. They had a good team, and a fellow all-star named Steve Nash.

Raja Bell #11
Shawn Bradley #44
Evan Eschmeyer #42
Nick Van Exel #31
Michael Finley #4Adrian Griffin #7
Avery Johnson #5
Popeye Jones #54
Raef LaFrentz #45
Dirk Nowitzki #41
Eduardo Najera #14
Steve Nash #13
Antoine Rigaudeau #17
Tariq Abdul-Wahad #9
Walt Williams #43


And of course Dirk has done more than Bosh.. how can you compare them. They don't have the same game types... and Dirk has been in the league a lot longer.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Here's a look at the 2002-03 team. I think it was more than just dirk who gave them 60. They had a good team, and a fellow all-star named Steve Nash.

Raja Bell #11
Shawn Bradley #44
Evan Eschmeyer #42
Nick Van Exel #31
Michael Finley #4Adrian Griffin #7
Avery Johnson #5
Popeye Jones #54
Raef LaFrentz #45
Dirk Nowitzki #41
Eduardo Najera #14
Steve Nash #13
Antoine Rigaudeau #17
Tariq Abdul-Wahad #9
Walt Williams #43


And of course Dirk has done more than Bosh.. how can you compare them. They don't have the same game types... and Dirk has been in the league a lot longer.

Very similar to Steve Nashs situation the last 2 years? Except he has more talent than this team, so please, get off the crack pipe.

[haterofhaters]

Very similar to Steve Nashs situation the last 2 years? Except he has more talent than this team, so please, get off the crack pipe.

Nobody on Nash's team is an MVP candidate without him there. As for the team, they do have a lot of great athlete's but that wouldn't even guarantee them a playoff spot out west. They'd probably be fighting for position #5-8 without him at best.

As for the Mavs without Nowitzki, no they wouldn't be as good, but they'd still have a solid team.. and probably a better record than the suns without nash.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Nobody on Nash's team is an MVP candidate without him there. As for the team, they do have a lot of great athlete's but that wouldn't even guarantee them a playoff spot out west. They'd probably be fighting for position #5-8 without him at best.

As for the Mavs without Nowitzki, no they wouldn't be as good, but they'd still have a solid team.. and probably a better record than the suns without nash.

You must not watch the Mavs very often, because this team would suck without Dirk.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Nobody on Nash's team is an MVP candidate without him there. As for the team, they do have a lot of great athlete's but that wouldn't even guarantee them a playoff spot out west. They'd probably be fighting for position #5-8 without him at best.

As for the Mavs without Nowitzki, no they wouldn't be as good, but they'd still have a solid team.. and probably a better record than the suns without nash.

Nash was not considered "MVP material" while with the Mavs, not even close.

[Skywalker]

Nobody on Nash's team is an MVP candidate without him there. As for the team, they do have a lot of great athlete's but that wouldn't even guarantee them a playoff spot out west. They'd probably be fighting for position #5-8 without him at best.

As for the Mavs without Nowitzki, no they wouldn't be as good, but they'd still have a solid team.. and probably a better record than the suns without nash.

I don't agree with this.

Amare, Marion, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, etc. > Howard, Terry, Dampier, Stackhouse, George, Buckner, etc.

I doubt a team with Josh Howard as their best player could be a top 5 team in the west.

[haterofhaters]

You must not watch the Mavs very often, because this team would suck without Dirk.
lol, no honestly i don't.. but from what i have seen of them this season, Josh Howard has been right up there..

[haterofhaters]

I don't agree with this.

Amare, Marion, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, etc. > Howard, Terry, Dampier, Stackhouse, George, Buckner, etc.

I doubt a team with Josh Howard as their best player could be a top 5 team in the west.
Not the point. Would you say that Suns without Nash >> Mavs without Dirk?

[Howard5Dirk41]

lol, no honestly i don't.. but from what i have seen of them this season, Josh Howard has been right up there..
Josh Howard is as good as he is because of Dirk.

[knickscity]

Without Dirk they wouldn't have a go to guy. Terry would be their best player and we know how that worked out for him with the Hawks.

[Skywalker]

Not the point. Would you say that Suns without Nash >> Mavs without Dirk?

I would say yes they are but facts beg to differ so I guess I have to say no. I've heard Dallas is undefeated without Dirk this year or something? While the Suns are known to struggle without Nash.

[knickscity]

I don't agree with this.

Amare, Marion, Diaw, Barbosa, Bell, etc. > Howard, Terry, Dampier, Stackhouse, George, Buckner, etc.

I doubt a team with Josh Howard as their best player could be a top 5 team in the west.
When Nash went went down the other year, the Suns stunk. When he got back healthy they started winning again. That was the basis for his first MVP.

[haterofhaters]

Without Dirk they wouldn't have a go to guy. Terry would be their best player and we know how that worked out for him with the Hawks.
I agree with that statement.

But as for the Suns, without Nash they wouldn't have the guy to get them the ball in all the right spots. And then they'd go from being a top tier team to a middle of the pack team. So the reason why I say Nash is more important to the team is because his play directly attributes to how the rest of the team plays.

[knickscity]

I agree with that statement.

But as for the Suns, without Nash they wouldn't have the guy to get them the ball in all the right spots. And then they'd go from being a top tier team to a middle of the pack team. So the reason why I say Nash is more important to the team is because his play directly attributes to how the rest of the team plays.

yeah i agree. We are posting too fast for ourselves. That's what I just posted also.

[haterofhaters]

I'd say he was 24 when first thought of as a MVP Candidate... but I dont see Bosh becoming an MVP Candidate in the next two years for sure, if ever.

Bosh is a nice player, will go to multiple all-star games but nothing stands out about him to me.

Bosh is already an MVP candidate: http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings.html

Granted, he's obviously not gonna win it, but he's gonna be a great player for years to come and it's definitely possible in later years.

[PureElement]

They started 7-14 because they had 9 new players and went through an extremely difficult Western road swing.


a 7-14 start is a 7-14 start. You don't see Mavs or Suns fans saying their bad start is the reason they are not over 43 wins already and on pace for 70 win seasons. The fact they've played well the last couple of month is because of their soften schedule. Maintaining this .500 pace, perhaps a little higher or lower is about as good as the raps are this season.


woot, woot, the east? Lame. As I already said they've played half their games against the West and would be in the playoffs in the West. What more do you want from a team who's 3 best players are under 22? A team with the most new players this season and a very young nucleus. 25 wins 48 games into the season is a huge jump.

Have you checked the Raptor's conference record vs. their record against the west? 17-9 against the pathetic east (7-2 against the titanic division), meaning they are 6 games below .500 against the West. No they are not better then the Warriors or Wolves yet.


The **** is a dude from Edmonton cheering for the Rockets anyway? :roll:

Raps are my second favorite team behind the rockets and I catch all their games on the score or TSN, but you make it sound like they are suddenly a "good" team. No, they are a mediocre team playing in the worst division in the history of basketball.

[Howard5Dirk41]

Bosh is already an MVP candidate: http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings.html

Granted, he's obviously not gonna win it, but he's gonna be a great player for years to come and it's definitely possible in later years.

Bosh an MVP Candidate? lmfao is his team ever over .500??

[Howard5Dirk41]

Bosh is already an MVP candidate: http://www.nba.com/features/player_rankings.html

Granted, he's obviously not gonna win it, but he's gonna be a great player for years to come and it's definitely possible in later years.

According to this, Josh Howard is also an MVP Candidate... Are you ****ing serious about bringing this up? lmfao

[clipps]

Nice prediction.