Is Steve Nash the greatest phoenix player ever?

[Screamingdoom]

I heard Skip Bayless claim this a couple of days ago. What do you think?

[GreatHILL]

CB34 & KJ7 is, but he is up there

[embersyc]

Charles Barkley is rolling over in his grave.

[Knicksfever2010]

CB34 & KJ7 is, but he is up there

no way is kj in the same discussion as nash. its a dead heat between nash/barkley

[Walker]

I've been an avid Suns fan since 1988.

Yes Nash is the greatest Sun ever, it's not even close.

Barkley second..

Daylight third.

[TheBigVeto]

Yep. GOAT PG (before joining Fakers), and GOAT Phoenix Suns player.

[miller-time]

Charles only really had 1 season in Phoenix that was better than Nash. Everything else was first or second round exits.

Nash got them to 4 conference finals - three of which were lost to teams that went on to win the finals. Plus he had been there for 10 seasons to Barkley's 4.

[MMM]

Barkley
Nash
KJ
Westphal????

think i'm missin a few between KJ and PW

[Odinn]

Steve Nash played in 744 regular season games for the Suns in 10 seasons and averaged 14.4/3.1/9.4.
In the playoffs, he played in 75 games and averaged 18.2/3.4/9.7.

Kevin Johnson played in 683 regular season games for the Suns in 12 seasons and averaged 18.7/3.4/9.5.
In the playoffs, he played in 105 games and averaged 19.3/3.3/8.9.


I don't see a case for Nash being a greater Sun than KJ.

[howlin_wolf]

Steve Nash played in 744 regular season games for the Suns in 10 seasons and averaged 14.4/3.1/9.4.
In the playoffs, he played in 75 games and averaged 18.2/3.4/9.7.

Kevin Johnson played in 683 regular season games for the Suns in 12 seasons and averaged 18.7/3.4/9.5.
In the playoffs, he played in 105 games and averaged 19.3/3.3/8.9.


I don't see a case for Nash being a greater Sun than KJ.

Floor general, face of the franchise, 2x MVP... it's Nash, hands down.

[9512]

A dark horse for great PHX Suns player ever is Connie Hawkins.

I say dark horse because he only entered the NBA at age 27 (long story about being connected to shady people.)

The Suns organization honored Hawkins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKehQLgw3pY

[andremiller07]

Yeah more than likely the 2 MVP''s make it hard to make a case against him, also his mum and dad think hes the greatest Sun ever to.

[stax]

Steve Nash played in 744 regular season games for the Suns in 10 seasons and averaged 14.4/3.1/9.4.
In the playoffs, he played in 75 games and averaged 18.2/3.4/9.7.

Kevin Johnson played in 683 regular season games for the Suns in 12 seasons and averaged 18.7/3.4/9.5.
In the playoffs, he played in 105 games and averaged 19.3/3.3/8.9.


I don't see a case for Nash being a greater Sun than KJ.

KJ's stats give him a case over a lot of people all-time (e.g. Tiny Archibald, Tony Parker) and yet I wouldn't take him over them - or Nash - but I can't really say why. :confusedshrug: I missed his prime by a couple of years, maybe someone older can give a fair assessment of him. I don't think stats tell the whole story.

[Odinn]

Floor general, face of the franchise, 2x MVP... it's Nash, hands down.
Yeah. 2 of the most undeserved MVPs ever and he wasn't even top 5 player in both seasons.



KJ's stats give him a case over a lot of people all-time (e.g. Tiny Archibald, Tony Parker) and yet I wouldn't take him over them - or Nash - but I can't really say why. :confusedshrug: I missed his prime by a couple of years, maybe someone older can give a fair assessment of him. I don't think stats tell the whole story.
Kevin Johnson was a better player than Tony Parker. I don't think that's even a discussion.
As for all-time rankings, Nash is ranked higher than KJ for sure but we are talking about the Suns history.
While their rpg/apg/tpg are identical, despite playing 61 less games, KJ scored 2035 more points than Nash for the Suns franchise.

Also the only exceptional season of Nash as a Sun was 2005-06. Thanks to him, the Suns made it to the WCF. But in that years, the Suns should have gotten to the NBA Finals at least once. You can blame D'Antoni or Nash or Amar'e. But that team was loaded. Let's not act like Nash did an exceptional job aside from 2005-06 season.

[WillC]

1. Charles Barkley
2. Steve Nash
3. Kevin Johnson
4. Connie Hawkins
5. Paul Westphal
6. Shawn Marion
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Walter Davis
9. Jason Kidd
10. Dan Majerle

Honorable mention: Larry Nance, Alvan Adams, Jeff Hornacek, Tom Chambers, Dick Van Arsdale.

[BoutPractice]

From the (admittedly comparatively small) sample of full games I've watched from KJ, he seemed to have less of an impact on the game than Nash, raw stats aside.

[Go Getter]

KJ could score on Nash with ease. The fact that Nash couldn't guard KJ ON HiS WORST DAY just makes me want to rank KJ higher than Nash.

[tpols]

KJ couldn't run an offense on his best day that would be as effective as Steve Nash could on his worst day.

[Go Getter]

KJ couldn't run an offense on his best day that would be as effective as Steve Nash could on his worst day.
Spoken like a man that never saw KJ, Thunder Dan, and Barkley play. Their offense was scary good AND they managed to play some defense. They just ran into Jordan and the Bulls.


Nash gets all the credit for the offenses on his teams but notice that the Mavs got better when he left and won a title without him. The man had Dirk and prime Amare.....I think they made HIM look good as well but let Nash fans tell it they owe their NBA careers to him.

[Myth]

Barkley was better.

Here is Barkley's best season vs Nash's (and you won't see me edit out the things that favor Nash):

Barkley: 25.6ppg, 12.2rpg, 5.1apg, 1.6stl, 1.0blk, 3.1tov, 52.0fg%, 30.5%threes, 76.5ft% Regular season MVP (62-20 team record)
Playoffs: 26.6ppg, 13.6rpg, 4.3apg, 1.6stl, 1.0blk, 2.1tov, 47.7fg%, 22.2%threes, 77.1% Lost in the NBA Finals to the Bulls

Nash: 18.8ppg, 4.2rpg, 10.5apg, 0.8stl, 0.2blk, 3.5tov, 43.9fg%, 43.9%threes, 92.1ft% Regular season MVP (54-28 team record)
Playoffs: 20.4ppg, 3.7rpg, 10.2apg, 0.4spg, 0.3blk, 3.4tov, 50.2fg%, 36.8%threes, 91.2ft%, Lost in the Conference Finals to the Mavs (playoff seedings format were changed the next season because the teams with the top 2 records met in the second round, giving the Suns a relatively easy path to the Conf Finals)

[jbryan1984]

I would put Barkley over Nash, not KJ though.

[Whoah10115]

Steve Nash played in 744 regular season games for the Suns in 10 seasons and averaged 14.4/3.1/9.4.
In the playoffs, he played in 75 games and averaged 18.2/3.4/9.7.

Kevin Johnson played in 683 regular season games for the Suns in 12 seasons and averaged 18.7/3.4/9.5.
In the playoffs, he played in 105 games and averaged 19.3/3.3/8.9.


I don't see a case for Nash being a greater Sun than KJ.


I'm glad you're not being retarded.

[Money 23]

Best that I have seen, and ranked accordingly:

Charles Barkley
Steve Nash
Kevin Johnson
Jason Kidd
Stephon Marbury
Amare Stoudemire
Shawn Marion
Dan Majerle

[truhooper]

:roll: that loser never made it to the finals

[L.Kizzle]

EDIT: These should be Suns on Nash stats.
How do you put KJ over Nash?

http://i.azcentral.com/i/sized/F/9/5/e298/j350/PHP4F249B108659F.jpg


Nash, led league in assist. KJ never once, came in 2nd once though.
Nash, five All-NBA teams including 3 first teams. KJ five All NBA teams, no first.
Nash, 6 All-Star game appearances, KJ three.

KJ, five season of 20+ ppg, Nash's high 18.8.
KJ, one NBA Finals appearances as the 2nd best player, two West Conf Finals as the best player. Nash, three West Conf Finals as the best player.


If those aren't enough to put Nash above KJ, I haven't even mentioned the 2 MVP Awards he was giving in back to back years.

[SCdac]

KJ was top-5 in APG like 6 seasons. Can't fault him for playing in an era with other great PG's. No doubt he'd be one of the best PG's in today's game. The difference between him and Nash isn't vast.

[Money 23]

KJ was top-5 in APG like 6 seasons. Can't fault him for playing in an era with other great PG's. No doubt he'd be one of the best PG's in today's game. The difference between him and Nash isn't vast.
In terms of ability? I think KJ is better (apart from durability) ... but Nash resume and importance to that particular franchise makes me rank Nash ahead of him in terms of greatest Phoenix player, ever.

[L.Kizzle]

KJ was top-5 in APG like 6 seasons. Can't fault him for playing in an era with other great PG's. No doubt he'd be one of the best PG's in today's game. The difference between him and Nash isn't vast.
It's not, but you can't overlook 2 MVP, no matter how much people say they were undeserved.

If you take out the 2 MVPs, it's still slightly close goin by play, accolades, ect. But with the 2 MVP,s it's impossible to put him above Nash.

[SCdac]

without adjusting for pace, Johnson' 12.2 assists a game in 89 would have been #1 in the league in any of the last 10 seasons.

[Go Getter]

In terms of ability? I think KJ is better (apart from durability) ... but Nash resume and importance to that particular franchise makes me rank Nash ahead of him in terms of greatest Phoenix player, ever.
KJ's team went to the finals and pushed a legendary Bulls team to the brink almost.

Nash came over from the Mavs who went on to win a title without him.


Doesn't look like Nash is going to sniff the finals any time soon.

[Money 23]

KJ's team went to the finals and pushed a legendary Bulls team to the brink almost.

Nash came over from the Mavs who went on to win a title without him.
I know, thus my post. I know KJ's history, and Nash. Thanks for the knowledge, though.

[Go Getter]

It's not, but you can't overlook 2 MVP, no matter how much people say they were undeserved.

If you take out the 2 MVPs, it's still slightly close goin by play, accolades, ect. But with the 2 MVP,s it's impossible to put him above Nash.
If you put prime KJ on prime Nash there is no way in hell Nash could guard him. Check out KJ on YouTube for those who aren't hip to him he was one of the best slashers EVER. His mid range J was absolutely lethal.


Nash was no slouch either but imo Nash has a lot of games where his stats belie the fact that he got shit all over on defense which made one of the other perimeter players to guard his man which makes for team wide defensive disarray at times, and losses.

I'd rather have a guy who can guard his position, which is btw, half of the game of basketball.

[Go Getter]

I know, thus my post. I know KJ's history, and Nash. Thanks for the knowledge, though.
So KJ takes the franchise to a bigger stage, scores more points in less games, has comprable numbers all around, and goes on to make the franchise look good in retirement by becoming a politician and Nash is more important how?

For getting two MVPs gifted to him?

[Money 23]

So KJ takes the franchise to a bigger stage, scores more points in less games, has comprable numbers all around, and goes on to make the franchise look good in retirement by becoming a politician and Nash is more important how?

For getting two MVPs gifted to him?
Look, I agree. I think KJ is the actual better basketball player. Thus why I said from an ABILITY stand point, I'd take KJ.

I mean, he tried guarding Jordan when he was zooming by Marjele, Tony Dumas, can you imagine Nash in the Finals taking on a task of guarding Jordan in order to negate penetration? Not a chance in hell.

But from a resume stand point, even if the MVPs were gifted out of context in transition years for the NBA when they wanted to get rid of the slow pace, half court ISO game, and back to free-flowing 80's style ball ... whatevers.

His resume, puts him right at the top of the Phoenix franchise, just below Chuck. KJ is absolutely, IMO the better player.

[Human Error]

Nash in my opinion is not the best PG in Suns history. Let alone being the best player...

[L.Kizzle]

KJ's team went to the finals and pushed a legendary Bulls team to the brink almost.

Nash came over from the Mavs who went on to win a title without him.


Doesn't look like Nash is going to sniff the finals any time soon.
Lol, Mavs go to the Finals after losing not only Nash, but Mike Finley and Jamison/Walker the year they joined.

What are you getting at?

[Go Getter]

Look, I agree. I think KJ is the actual better basketball player. Thus why I said from an ABILITY stand point, I'd take KJ.

I mean, he tried guarding Jordan when he was zooming by Marjele, Tony Dumas, can you imagine Nash in the Finals taking on a task of guarding Jordan in order to negate penetration? Not a chance in hell.

But from a resume stand point, even if the MVPs were gifted out of context in transition years for the NBA when they wanted to get rid of the slow pace, half court ISO game, and back to free-flowing 80's style ball ... whatevers.

His resume, puts him right at the top of the Phoenix franchise, just below Chuck. KJ is absolutely, IMO the better player.
I don't agree, but you make a damn good argument therefore I respect it. Props to you sir.

[Money 23]

Nash was one of the top ten greatest, and most important players of the 2000's. On those merits alone, he's more important.

KJ was better, but he is not one of the top ten best, or most important players of the 90's.

[L.Kizzle]

If you put prime KJ on prime Nash there is no way in hell Nash could guard him. Check out KJ on YouTube for those who aren't hip to him he was one of the best slashers EVER. His mid range J was absolutely lethal.


Nash was no slouch either but imo Nash has a lot of games where his stats belie the fact that he got shit all over on defense which made one of the other perimeter players to guard his man which makes for team wide defensive disarray at times, and losses.

I'd rather have a guy who can guard his position, which is btw, half of the game of basketball.
We all know Nash is a terrible defender, so was Barkley and a bunch of other great players.

[Go Getter]

Lol, Mavs go to the Finals after losing not only Nash, but Mike Finley and Jamison/Walker the year they joined.

What are you getting at?
The brand of basketball a team must play to allow for Nash's great offense is not conducive to winning playoff games. He cannot guard his position. This is the FATAL FLAW in an otherwise superb player.

Barkley could be a good defender when motivated. Despite his flaws he is still undisputedly a top 3-5 PF and one of the best ever. To pick Nash over him imo would be tragic.

Imagine if KJ played in today's league where you can't hand check?

Bananas.

[Smoke117]

no way is kj in the same discussion as nash. its a dead heat between nash/barkley

Uh...Kevin Johnson is not in the same discussion as nash? Kevin Johnson was an excellent player who's legacy was hurt by a body that kept breaking down, but at his best he is easily as good as Steve Nash at his best.

[Whoah10115]

Nash came over from the Mavs who went on to win a title without him.



Yea, only 6 seasons later lol.

[Burgz V2]

ill take KJ and Barkley before him any day

[dgaras]

nash hands down

ill wait for racist go getter to make his case a bit more for black players

[gin17]

the question, in my opinion, is not who is the best player ever to wear a suns jersey. the question is more like, if you hear the team of Phoenix Suns, you'd probably just hear Barkley's and Nash's names come out. they're the top of mind Suns players. If the Suns had only one player to describe the whole franchise, it's just between the two.

[miller-time]

KJ's team went to the finals and pushed a legendary Bulls team to the brink almost.

Saying it was KJ's team is as silly as saying it was Pippen's team.

[Go Getter]

Saying it was KJ's team is as silly as saying it was Pippen's team.
Why is that? KJ was the leader while Barkley was the talent. Im sure Bark was in time to everything and lead by example while KJ shirked his responsibilities, got into drunken fights in bars, and stayed out of shape.

Wait, actually...

[Go Getter]

Yea, only 6 seasons later lol.
They got better the very next year, did they not?


They made the finals the next year iirc??? Or the year after that....

[Screamingdoom]

1. Charles Barkley
2. Steve Nash
3. Kevin Johnson
4. Connie Hawkins
5. Paul Westphal
6. Shawn Marion
7. Amare Stoudemire
8. Walter Davis
9. Jason Kidd
10. Dan Majerle

Honorable mention: Larry Nance, Alvan Adams, Jeff Hornacek, Tom Chambers, Dick Van Arsdale.

I forgot the great players who've played for Phoenix.

[Kovach]

It's not, but you can't overlook 2 MVP, no matter how much people say they were undeserved.

There are arguably several reasons why one could put Nash over KJ, the fact that he won 2 borderline meaningless NBA congeniality awards is not one of them.

[Whoah10115]

They got better the very next year, did they not?


They made the finals the next year iirc??? Or the year after that....



That isn't what you said tho.


But if you want talk about it, you can't begin to compare Nash in Dallas to Nash in Phoenix.

[Dragonyeuw]

It's the peak vs longevity argument. If the argument is peak, then Barkley's MVP season is better than any of Nash's seasons in terms of dominance, KJ was putting up 20 and 10 in the early 90's and a much better defender, so he has an argument. If the argument is sustained excellence over a long period, Nash gave the Suns 8 seasons of quality ball, 3 of which were MVP level. Remember that Nash took the Suns to 54 wins the season after losing Amare Stoudamire to injury who was replaced by Boris Diaw.

[Jolokia]

1. Steve Nash
2. KJ
3. Barkley

I don't really care about actual ability as it is meaningless. Doesn't matter how athletic you are or how good you shoot if it doesn't translate into an NBA game. Ability to me is just potential. Actual impact of one's game is more arguable, but the resume is what I really concentrate my thoughts when it comes to ranking a franchise player. People bringing up 1-on-1 is quite ridiculous tbh.

Charles Barkley's time with the Suns was just too short. It doesn't matter where he stands in the all-time charts. His best year as a Sun is probably better than any season from Nash or KJ, but that's not enough for me to put him on top of them.

Nash has 2 MVPs and multiple conference finals appearances only losing to the same Spurs dynasty that went on to win it all the 3 times they knocked the Suns out. Like someone said, his second best player in Amare went down and he still took them to a 54 win season into the conference finals. That season he played the most minutes, rebounded the most, and scored the most in his career despite losing a 26/9 player in Amare...still led the league in assists too. He's a true leader and a complete professional that meant everything to the franchise.

KJ has the longevity and stats but he won't be as memorable imo. FG% and assists were kind of inflated back then where John Stockton was averaging around 14 APG in his prime and plenty of players averaging more than 10 APG. Even Rondo doesn't come close to that mark and his whole game is based on assist numbers. Steve Nash led the league in assists for 5 years being one of the best shooters in history. KJ's peak play, however is overlooked and was on one of the unstoppable forces back in his day. I love KJ and his style of play which was very exciting. I would rather have him over Nash if I had to choose 1 to start a franchise, but Nash is the Sun's most important player in history.

[chazzy]

Yes

[dgaras]

nash hands down

ill wait for racist go getter to make his case a bit more for black players

lol at go getter negging me cause hes mad. :applause:

guy has been badmouthing white players for years. any posters that have been here a while know the truth. not trolling.