would u trade irving and varejao for westbrook?

[ortonsaw]

imo this trade is good for both parties
thunder gets a true pg and upgrade at the center
cavaliers get a guy who can carries team

[JerryWest]

two injury prone players for ironman? meh.

[EnoughSaid]

No. If they trade Kyrie then Cleveland is really a shithole.

[selrahc]

doubt cleveland would want westbrook. shitty attitude, bad decision maker.

[Derka]

Kind of redundant for OKC, isnt it?

[LeFraud James]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

[Jolokia]

not sure if srs

[Dro]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.
This....

[tikay0]

Based off impact on the game, gotta give Westbrook the nod. The thing is, his attitude will always prevent him from being the team's captain, or moral leader.

[CavaliersFTW]

imo this trade is good for both parties
thunder gets a true pg and upgrade at the center
cavaliers get a guy who can carries team
Irving > Westchuck

Irving + Andy for Durant or no deal.

[Budadiiii]

Abso****inglutely not. Are you on drugs?

[Kungfro]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

+1

[ortonsaw]

Abso****inglutely not. Are you on drugs?
youre the only one who said no so far :coleman:

[dajadeed]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

This.

[INDI]

westbrook is not worth irving straight up. I would actually say irving is the better player tbh

[Budadiiii]

westbrook is not worth irving straight up. I would actually say irving is the better player tbh
Kill yourself

[tikay0]

westbrook is not worth irving straight up. I would actually say irving is the better player tbh

Better scorer, but not player. Westbrook impacts the game much more than Kyrie.

[INDI]

Kill yourself

You first, I'll follow your lead.

[Cali Syndicate]

There's no reason either team would or should do this.

[INDI]

Better scorer, but not player. Westbrook impacts the game much more than Kyrie.

Im not a fan of westbrook. IMO he is not a winner, and actually a hindrance to how good the thunder truly can be. He does not desire to be a second option but rather be considered a 1b option. The thunder would have won the championship had they had cp3 or rondo at the point and russell will be the reason why they fail again this year.

[Myth]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

Ditto.

[RoseCity07]

If I'm Cleveland **** no.Westbrook is not ever going to be the man on a championship team. Irving and Durant could be champions.

[therammingman]

Fack no. Irving>>>>

[Tking714]

:biggums: Irving is definitely not better than Westbrook

[Rubio2Gasol]

No one in the league trades Irving for Westbrook. I am actually a fan of Westbrook but Irving is smoother and more marketable. He's 3 years younger and arguably right there with Westbrook and much less volatile.

[ortonsaw]

yeah to be honest i just want the thunder to trade freaking westbrook
hes like the only thing that is stopping thunder to win the championship

[selrahc]

:biggums: Irving is definitely not better than Westbrook

huh? Even if you don't take into account attitude, Irving > Westbrook

[inclinerator]

irving> westbrook and durant

[imdaman99]

:roll: apparently everyone is under the impression that westbrook is the reason the thunder dont win championships. you know that a team full of 22-23 yr olds never win championships right? especially when the best 3-4-5 players are all under 25. so ppl swear the thunder went to the finals IN SPITE of westbrook. a bunch of coach pricks and brendas in here i swear :facepalm

[taucesays]

Hell to the no

[I.R.Beast]

westbrook is not worth irving straight up. I would actually say irving is the better player tbh
irving is a better shooter and ball handler.... westbrook is better at everuthing else .... if irving isnt scoring he isnt making any impact... westbrook defense , rebounding, hustle and playmaking give him the edge.

[TheCorporation]

I'd rather have Irving + Varejao over Westbrook

[AirTupac]

I'd be deathly afraid of Irving - Durant combo. Add in Varejao at center? They'd be favorites to win the ship (more so than they are now).

If I'm thinking about the future (obviously I am) I wouldn't trade Irving for Westbrook straight up. Much rather have Kyrie.

[KOBE143]

I think this is a better trade than OP

Steve Blake for Westbrook
Steve Nash for Irving

Cavs and OKC gets a veteran pg that will help their young players to develop into star.. Both Steve already knows the Kobe System but I dont know it they will run it effectively to other team without Kobe.. What you think? Deal?

[j3lademaster]

Westbrook is actually the better scorer when the floor is spread for him, Kyrie the better shooter can obviously work better with a lane clogging big(s). So offensively I'll give it to Irving because it's hard to find dominant rebounders that don't clog the lane, i.e Irving is easier to build around; and I feel they have the same playmaking ability despite the difference in assist totals (Kyrie might be a little better even). They're both mentally tough in crunch time, but Kyrie is more levelheaded and in control: Kyrie gets the nod here as well.

However, I've seen WB play sick playoff D. And he can defend 3 positions. Kyrie on D? No thanks. That and Wb is probably the best rebounding pg.

Wb is overall more impactful right now. He's never hurt whereas Kyrie has had injury woes since college.

Lots of Wb haters it seems... cut the young guy some slack. They lost because Harden sucked in the finals, not Wb.

To answer op's question, no. But not because Kyrie's better than WB, but because Kyrie seems to have more upside (maybe?) and is more marketable (take his likability vs. russ's on this board for example), and throwing in a good center just makes this deal COMPLETELY imbalanced (though I do think Cleveland should trade Varejao soon, because he's hurting Tristan Thompson's confidence- think Tristan can flourish with his minutes and role).

Sorry about the excessive quotations, my high school english teacher would not be proud :(

[entropy35]

I think people forget that kyrie doesn't make players around him better, and he doesn't play good defense. He is a great scorer though.

Westbrook is light year ahead in defense and better offensively, he is a better play maker (contrary to popular belief).

Irving is better ball handler and makes more sound decisions, but Westbrook is too dynamic and impacts the game in more ways. You take Westbrook 10/10 times.

[brandonislegend]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

:applause:

[brandonislegend]

I think people forget that kyrie doesn't make players around him better, and he doesn't play good defense. He is a great scorer though.

Westbrook is light year ahead in defense and better offensively, he is a better play maker (contrary to popular belief).

Irving is better ball handler and makes more sound decisions, but Westbrook is too dynamic and impacts the game in more ways. You take Westbrook 10/10 times.

You realize Westbrook plays with Ibaka, Kevin Martin, oh ya and the best scorer in the NBA.

While Irving plays with Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee and Tristan Thompson.

Of course he looks like a better playmaker, on top of that they have Tyler Zeller behind Irving while Westbrook has Ibaka and Perkins (he sucks balls but he is still intimidating) Tyler Zeller is like a little boy who the hell is scared of him? Of course Westbrook is going to look better on defense, how did Westbrooks defense look when Irving scored 13 in a row on him 2 games ago at the end of the game?

[Legends66NBA7]

Neither team is going to make the trade. Both franchises have too much invested into their young PG's.

[RedBlackAttack]

Are people actually discussing this? FYI, there is no player in the league I'd trade Kyrie for right now, straight-up. I'm not saying he is the best player in the league (clearly he's not), but for where this team is in terms of the rebuild, a 20-year-old phenom is exactly what is needed.

Horrible thread, but since it seems as though it has spawned some decent posts, I'll leave it open for the time being. Simply based on the merits of the thread topic, though, it completely deserves to be deleted.

Oh, btw, Budadiii left me this message in my reps the other night:

"Rest in piss to your ****** father, and whoever has cancer in your family, I hope they die."

[Fudge]

Are people actually discussing this? FYI, there is no player in the league I'd trade Kyrie for right now, straight-up. I'm not saying he is the best player in the league (clearly he's not), but for where this team is in terms of the rebuild, a 20-year-old phenom is exactly what is needed.

Horrible thread, but since it seems as though it has spawned some decent posts, I'll leave it open for the time being.
Not even LeBron or Durant?

[RedBlackAttack]

Not even LeBron or Durant?
I wouldn't want James for a bag of peanuts. Want nothing to do with that guy and I've made it very clear in past threads. It has nothing to do with his being an amazing player (which he is). I'm just done with him.

Durant is the only guy I'd consider, but, like I siad... For where this team is, I'll take the 20-year-old. It gives the franchise more time to build around him. Maybe he will be as good as Durant, maybe not, but I'm willing to take the chance considering his age. Now, if I were a fan of the Bulls or Pacers, my answer would be different.

[noob cake]

Not even LeBron or Durant?

Only Durant and LeBron.

[brandonislegend]

Not even LeBron or Durant?

Only 2 I would take over him.

[Legends66NBA7]

Are people actually discussing this? FYI, there is no player in the league I'd trade Kyrie for right now, straight-up. I'm not saying he is the best player in the league (clearly he's not), but for where this team is in terms of the rebuild, a 20-year-old phenom is exactly what is needed.

Horrible thread, but since it seems as though it has spawned some decent posts, I'll leave it open for the time being. Simply based on the merits of the thread topic, though, it completely deserves to be deleted.

Oh, btw, Budadiii left me this message in my reps the other night:

"Rest in piss to your ****** father, and whoever has cancer in your family, I hope they die."

Don't you think better management and ownership is needed, instead ? Last time a 20-year-old phenom was in the rebuilding stage in Cleveland... well, you know what happened even when they started contending... they need to actually makes moves and bring MORE talent in for this guy.

I think that could have just been someone who just left Budadiii's signature ? :confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

Don't you think better management and ownership is needed, instead ? Last time a 20-year-old phenom was in the rebuilding stage in Cleveland... well, you know what happened even when they started contending... they need to actually makes moves and bring MORE talent in for this guy.

I think that could have just been someone who just left Budadiii's signature ? :confusedshrug:

Nah, it was him. I was riding him because Kyrie destroyed Westbrook that night in the clutch. He was really angry.

As for the first part, there are a few things you need to realize if you are going to discuss the Cavs.

A. This is a completely different front office than the one in place during the James years. In fact, most of the "bad" moves people associate with the Cavs during 2003-2010 weren't even under Ferry, but Jim Paxson. So, it was two front offices ago.

B. The current front office team -- led by Chris Grant -- have a tremendous track record in their two years at the helm. All they've done is trade Mo Williams and Jamario Moon for the right to draft Kyrie Irving. They've also cut a lot of dead weight, added tons of draft picks and put together the league's best cap situation going forward. Hell, they just fleeced Memphis, essentially getting Speights, Ellington, Selby and a 1st round pick for nothing.

C. Dan Gilbert is EXACTLY the kind of owner every team should want. He cares deeply about both the franchise and the city (and put his money where his mouth is for both), will pay whatever it takes to build the team as evidenced by buying Baron Davis' and Luke Walton's contracts (among others) just to help the team down the road and he stays out of the GM's hair, allowing them to make the personnel moves.


So, knowing all of that, why would I question the front office at this juncture? They've been nothing short of phenomenal in their first two years and Kyrie wouldn't even be here if it weren't for their brilliant maneuvering.

What the Cavs FO has done since James left is so completely underrated, but people will eventually realize all the good they've done when this team starts winning and people no longer associate what happened two FOs ago with the current regime.


Oh, and it is too early to start spending all of our cap space to bring in MORE talent (as you put it). This team isn't quite ready to contend for the playoffs yet. They are still learning the ropes. Best thing to do at the moment is to play the young guys, let them grow together and learn how to win together and, when the time is right, start throwing around that money and all those picks to surround them with the kind of complimentary players it takes to compete at an elite level. In the meantime, get your young guys minutes and experience. A nice byproduct from that is likely another high draft pick this year (the last time it happens, imo). Did you know the Cavs' starting lineup average age is 22 years old?

This franchise is in a great place right now, I think.

[Force]

What kinda thread is this?

Not very many NBA GM's would be willing to deal Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.

[RedBlackAttack]

What kinda thread is this?

Not very many NBA GM's would be willing to deal Kyrie for Westbrook straight up.
A very, very stupid thread. Possible troll thread.

[SyRyanYang]

Westbrook is actually the better scorer when the floor is spread for him, Kyrie the better shooter can obviously work better with a lane clogging big(s). So offensively I'll give it to Irving because it's hard to find dominant rebounders that don't clog the lane, i.e Irving is easier to build around; and I feel they have the same playmaking ability despite the difference in assist totals (Kyrie might be a little better even). They're both mentally tough in crunch time, but Kyrie is more levelheaded and in control: Kyrie gets the nod here as well.

However, I've seen WB play sick playoff D. And he can defend 3 positions. Kyrie on D? No thanks. That and Wb is probably the best rebounding pg.

Wb is overall more impactful right now. He's never hurt whereas Kyrie has had injury woes since college.

Lots of Wb haters it seems... cut the young guy some slack. They lost because Harden sucked in the finals, not Wb.

To answer op's question, no. But not because Kyrie's better than WB, but because Kyrie seems to have more upside (maybe?) and is more marketable (take his likability vs. russ's on this board for example), and throwing in a good center just makes this deal COMPLETELY imbalanced (though I do think Cleveland should trade Varejao soon, because he's hurting Tristan Thompson's confidence- think Tristan can flourish with his minutes and role).

Sorry about the excessive quotations, my high school english teacher would not be proud :(

^^^Great post here^^^
Russ is vastly underrated on this board.

[Legends66NBA7]

@RedBlackAttack

To your post, well said. I will have to admit, outside of the Dan Gilbert part, I can understand a little more about the Cavs new management. I think it was also a little ignorant on my part to just talk about 2 different scenarios.

[alenleomessi]

ibaka+westbrook for irving seems like a fair trade, would help both teams in the long run, but will probably decrease OKC title chances this year

[Nash]

Westbrook is great. Dude caused Miami the most problems in the finals.

[dunksby]

Westbrook is indispensable to the team as much as Durant is, they complement each other, this is clear as day to me and it seems to the Thunder's FO too. Why it eludes a lot of people here I don't know.

[brandonislegend]

Westbrook is great. Dude caused Miami the most problems in the finals.

That's because they made sure Durant and Harden didn't do anything and let Westbrick get his so his head got bigger, the ball in Westbrick hands = good thing.

[jbryan1984]

No. Kyrie always plays better than Westbrook. I think he will end up better if he is not already.

[dunksby]

Westbrook is great. Dude caused Miami the most problems in the finals.

That's because they made sure Durant and Harden didn't do anything and let Westbrick get his so his head got bigger, the ball in Westbrick hands = good thing.
Durant in the finals: 30.6/55%/39%/84%/6.0/2.2/1.4/ 1.0
Westbrook : 27.0/43%/83%/6.4/6.6/1.0
Not surprisingly internet dickriders and haters still don't make sense.

[Sakkreth]

I wouldn't trade Kyrie for Tardbrook.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Why would you trade a better player in Irving for a drooling r.etard like Westbrick?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Better scorer, but not player. Westbrook impacts the game much more than Kyrie.

Westbrick plays with the 2nd best player in the NBA. Figures a Rose fan would side with Westbrick. I bet you were a huge Steve Francis fan back in the day :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Durant in the finals: 30.6/55%/39%/84%/6.0/2.2/1.4/ 1.0
Westbrook : 27.0/43%/83%/6.4/6.6/1.0
Not surprisingly internet dickriders and haters still don't make sense.


Durant had a great Finals if you are just talking about offense. Played awful defense though. Couldn't even check Mario Chalmers. And teams aren't afraid of Westbrick trying to take over. For every good thing thing he does, he does something in credible stupid in return.

[dunksby]

Durant had a great Finals if you are just talking about offense. Played awful defense though. Couldn't even check Mario Chalmers. And teams aren't afraid of Westbrick trying to take over. For every good thing thing he does, he does something in credible stupid in return.
Yea because LeBron was a defensive table turner defending Perkins :roll:

[gin17]

No.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Yea because LeBron was a defensive table turner defending Perkins :roll:

Durant got destroyed by everyone Brooks put him on. Anytime he tried guarding Bron it was a foul because he couldn't stay in front of him. Don't be upset when KD is crying on his mother's shoulder like a little b.itch again when they lose to the Heat :oldlol:

[dunksby]

Durant got destroyed by everyone Brooks put him on. Anytime he tried guarding Bron it was a foul because he couldn't stay in front of him. Don't be upset when KD is crying on his mother's shoulder like a little b.itch again when they lose to the Heat :oldlol:
Classic misdirection :roll: :applause:

[SilkkTheShocker]

http://thekevinburkeproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/durantcry.jpg

[Budadiiii]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[No_Look604]

Kyrie's a baller man. Westbrook is like Wade and Lebron feasting off athleticism and just throwing themselves at the rim. Peep game.

Then you throw in an all-star PF/C? Haha

And Westbrook dresses like a damn fool.

[SilkkTheShocker]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

What were his stats against OKC?

[Midnight Toker]

westbrook is not worth irving straight up. I would actually say irving is the better player tbh

LOL what is this troll behavior? Westbrook has been an all pro, selected to all star games as both starter and reserve. He's been in the top 5-10 scorers in the whole league for the past few years, has athleticism that is pretty much unmatched at his position, and is consistently (that is for the past 4 seasons) been one of the top players in efficiency rating. What else do you want? He's averaging more rebounds and more assists than irving. He plays with durant and martin and still averages only 1 point less per game. He's ironman and you'd take your 2nd year guy over him? keep him.

[BoutPractice]

Clearly not. Irving for Westbrook straight up deserves consideration, but adding Varejao makes it totally lopsided.

Giving just Irving in exchange for Westbrook is justifiable, but I think both teams would lose if they did that.
Westbrook and his athleticism are a big reason why the Thunder are so intimidating to play, a physical impact Irving can't replicate... while without Durant as a constant threat, Westbrook's decision making could cause problem with the Cavaliers as a whole, even as his individual stats would go up.

[Blue&Orange]

What were his stats against OKC?


Kevin Durant gives LeBron James fourth-quarter lesson in Game 1


LeBron James faded in fourth quarter,


Durant rises, LeBron shrinks in fourth


But then with the massive help from the refs and his teammates he was able to do a little better compared to 2011.

[USABall]

Assuming this question is asking if I would trade Irving and Varejao for Westbrook as an OKC fan, I would say yes to both (assuming healthy), no to just Irving.

I agree, Westbrook's value should not warrant a trade for both Irving AND Vareajo, especially considering Irving's upside and recent surge.

However, Westbrook is too fundamentally important to OKC's team, inside and out/locker room and court. Also, this is comparing Irving and Westbrook, two people who have different expectations from their coach and team. There is more expected of Irving, and rightfully so. We haven't seen Westbrook used in a similar situation to Irving, being the main man, regardless if he tries to force that situation.

In short, no, it's not worth the risk imo to trade Irving for Westbrook. OKC has made great progress through trades, or scouting/drafts and planning for the future. Kyrie is even younger, and at some point, OKC needs to just move forward and try with what they have by keeping their core. This is not a knock on Irving, I love his game.

If Irving and Varejao were on the table for Westbrook, I would do it, and Westbrook is my second favorite player on OKC, after Nick.

[RedBlackAttack]

@RedBlackAttack

To your post, well said. I will have to admit, outside of the Dan Gilbert part, I can understand a little more about the Cavs new management. I think it was also a little ignorant on my part to just talk about 2 different scenarios.
You aren't the first and won't be the last. These are the kinds of things I have to explain to people constantly. I guess I understand why... Not everyone follows this organization as closely as I do. And, since this new era Cavs haven't started winning yet, their national profile isn't high enough for people to have been exposed to the new front office.

I do firmly believe Grant and Co. will eventually be celebrated for the things they've done. It will just take the franchise taking the next step for it to start happening.

[Legends66NBA7]

You aren't the first and won't be the last. This is the kind of things I have to explain to people constantly. I guess I understand why... Not everyone follows this organization as closely as I do. And, since this new era Cavs haven't started winning yet, their national profile isn't high enough for people to have been exposed to the new front office.

I do firmly believe Grant and Co. will eventually be celebrated for the things they've done. It will just take the franchise taking the next step for it to start happening.

Hey, it's good lesson and when someone is more knowledgeable on the subject... should listen and the other party is now in better understanding.

[pegasus]

What were his stats against OKC?

Less than 20% from outside the paint. Got bailed by the refs and his teammates.

[stevieming]

Nope. But I would trade Westbrook for Irving and Varejao.

[postmupndunkit]

Varejao, Waiters, and this years 1st round pick for Westbrook.

Irving is not an option unless you add Ibaka.

[RedBlackAttack]

Varejao, Waiters, and this years 1st round pick for Westbrook.

Irving is not an option unless you add Ibaka.
I'm sure they could make it work, but I don't see Westbrook and Irving being the kind of combination which would bring out the best from both guys.

Durant and Kyrie, on the other hand... :eek:

Waiters, Varejao, two 1sts for Durant?

[brandonislegend]

Durant + Kyrie = championship lock.

[jrong]

I wouldn't trade Irving for any players not named LeBron or Kevin. He's not a top 3 or even top 5 player-- top 10 is debatable-- he probably is. But, the dude is 20....

[tmacattack33]

I would trade Irving for: Lebron and Durant. And maybe Chris Paul.

That's it.

[BuffaloBill]

imo this trade is good for both parties
thunder gets a true pg and upgrade at the center
cavaliers get a guy who can carries team



Yeah this trade is good for both teams, except the Cavaliers


:biggums:

[FatComputerNerd]

I wouldn't trade Irving for anyone TBH. Not even Lebron. Age has to be taken into account.