Do you feel too many unqualified students are entering colleges?

[shlver]

I have a friend who is a TA for a huge 100 level math class. It literally has over 150 students. I was a teacher's assistant for a precalc course and I expected students to be able to graph, know trig, etc. and comfortably add fractions, but his students are having trouble doing that.

[NotYetGreat]

Over here, especially when it comes to Math, I realized how poorly it really is taught. Students from courses that require basically a refresher course on high school mathematics struggle HARD, and I'm not talking about 1 or 2 out of 30, but whole classes of students who just can't follow easily. I sat in my friends' Basic College Algebra course and I was just shocked at how difficult it was for them.

[alenleomessi]

i feel many unqualified students are having high paying jobs
college is a joke here anyway

[Dolphin]

I don't like to point fingers unless there are undeniable facts to back up said finger pointing....but I think it's safe to say that our parents' generation really facked us over in many ways including how we have been educated. lol

[knickballer]

Yes and a significant part is due to No Child Left Behind. Now it's the duty of the schools to get every child to graduate even if they are dumber than a bag of onions. There's also the job of poor parenting where schools have basically assumed the title of parents in some cases whereas the parents don't even attempt to teach or tell their kids right/wrong. It's really bad with public/state schools/universities..

As for Math/Science the whole country sucks at it.

[JMT]

Of course. Once the national mantra became "you can't succeed without a degree", every mouth-breather who manages to stagger through the grueling challenge of high school goes on to further their "education".

Between 1990-2000, college enrollment (degree-granting institutions) rose 11%. Between 2000-2010, it increased 37%.

And now, all those who are exiting college no more prepared for the next step than when they entered it are hearing the new mantra "everybody has a college degree; it's no longer enough as there are no jobs".

[Tarik One]

It's annoying too. I'm often hesitant to join study groups mainly because other students want to piggyback off your hard work. They practically ace all of the homework assignments and quizzes, but fail the midterm and final exams.

Dumb people are nauseating.

I have no choice but to pursue a Masters because these nimrods have devalued a Bachelors degree.

[millwad]

Yes, especially in the US, at least based on my own experiences.

In Sweden college is for free and therefor the universities only look for good grades when they take in students to programs and the good universities tend to have good students as well.

I am currently doing my last term for my degree in economy at A&M and the students are not as bright as the swedish students but it should also be mentioned that the other foreign students tend to lack a lot too, especially when it comes to the english language.

[ace23]

In Sweden college is for free and therefor the universities only look for good grades when they take in students to programs and the good universities tend to have good students as well.
How is this different from the US?

[L.Kizzle]

No.

[SpecialQue]

Of course. College is a business, so they're not going to turn too many people away.

[millwad]

How is this different from the US?

A lot of the exchange students are not really the brightest, it's the kids with the rich parents. And the american students have to pay a lot of money in tuition and as long as you can't get a scholarship while coming from a poor background then you can sure as hell count out a lot of great minds.

I should also mention that the elite college's in the US have the best minds and the best students in the world, like Princeton, Yale, Harvard, MIT etc..

[ace23]

A lot of the exchange students are not really the brightest, it's the kids with the rich parents. And the american students have to pay a lot of money in tuition and as long as you can't get a scholarship while coming from a poor background then you can sure as hell count out a lot of great minds.
If you're poor, you will not have to pay much if anything to attend university/college, especially an elite one.

The average American HS student would attend Harvard for free if he were able to gain admission. And good universities here do tend to have good students. :oldlol:

[millwad]

If you're poor, you will not have to pay much if anything to attend university/college, especially an elite one.

The average American HS student would attend Harvard for free if he were able to gain admission. And good universities here do tend to have good students. :oldlol:

If you're poor, then you have money to survive.

Now imagine if college studies would be for free and the only thing that would be matter would be your intelligence and hard work and dedication.

I saw a ranking that said that A&M is a top 165 college in the world and if that is true, then I'm really scared regarding where the world is going because alot of these students are not bright. I'm just finishing my last course and some of the american kids even know less english than me and they have a hard time spelling and english is not my paternal language and I'm just an exchange student.

[knickballer]

Of course. College is a business, so they're not going to turn too many people away.

I can understand from a college standpoint from the $$ standpoint. My problem is with public education in k-12 where kids are basically spoon fed everything and babied through the ranks.. That's the main problem and the students who graduate don't learn anything of importance and then you have kids who have zero business of graduating doing so because of stupid laws that are passed. It's inflating the education..

As for the price of college if the government didn't offer student loans than the price wouldn't be so inflated. Certain private colleges jack up the price because they know the students will be able to pay for it using government loans and that's where the debt comes in. If students have to borrow money from the banks there would be less students entering these expensive schools and they would be forced to lower their tuition prices.

[Stuckey]

I wanted to be a math teacher at one point in my life, then I took a course on matrices and bombed the first two midterms, pulled a miracle hail mary on the finals though

[ace23]

Now imagine if college studies would be for free and the only thing that would be matter would be your intelligence and hard work and dedication.

That is the only thing that matters. Simply having money won't get you into a good school here in the States.


If you're poor, then you have money to survive.
What are you trying to say here?

[miller-time]

Even worse, I was talking to a guy when I was out last night that was doing work for the university during the orientation week (just showing new students how to get to places and use the computer system and such) and they now have parent days. Parent days. These kids today can't even start university without their parents hovering around and asking questions. I honestly don't understand why their parents need to be involved at all. They are freaking 18 and 19 years old!

[Math2]

The standards are being dumbed down by having standardized tests in which teachers can **** everything except whatever they know will be on the tests over. And since people want better graduation rates, the big solution is to dumb down the standards. Which is ridiculous. It obviously increases graduation rates, but at the same time it doesn't challenge people to actually try that hard to succeed. In high school I can basically give minimum, cruise control effort and still get straight A's. Whether it's just me or the system remains to be seen :D

[goldenryan]

If anything it is the opposite. I bet law and med degrees are a lot easier to obtain in India and China than here. I went to a dentist office and walked out of the room because of how clueless the "doctor" was. Not sure if he was middle eastern or Italian but no way in hell he would made the grade at a university here.

[Immortal Bum]

as long as college is a business, this will be the result. it isn't very difficult to get through college without learning much if you're ambitious. folks just want that piece of paper that says their qualified to earn paper. as long as you value the award more than proof that one is deserving of the award, you'll never have an accurate assessment of who can do their job until they actually have to do it.

[atljonesbro]

In certain ways I think kids today are smarter than the past generation. And also I think more blame should be put on schools because its not the students fault what they are learning and how.

[Akrazotile]

I have a friend who is a TA for a huge 100 level math class. It literally has over 150 students. I was a teacher's assistant for a precalc course and I expected students to be able to graph, know trig, etc. and comfortably add fractions, but his students are having trouble doing that.


Shiver on point as usual :applause:

[Nick Young]

Yes. Universities are lowering standards so they can accept more students and collect more tuition fees. A degree means less and less every year because of it.

[Dresta]

Thing is, almost everyone seems to acknowledge that standards have fallen off a cliff over the past half century, but few are willing to acknowledge the cause (too many students who aren't intellectually gifted attending places that should be especially for the intellectually gifted).

[nathanjizzle]

Thing is, almost everyone seems to acknowledge that standards have fallen off a cliff over the past half century, but few are willing to acknowledge the cause (too many students who aren't intellectually gifted attending places that should be especially for the intellectually gifted).

No, just no. Higher education is not or should not be aimed for "intellectually gifted people". That is nonsense and the ramifications of that would lead to a degeneration in general technology and other industries that rely on college to produce talent and work. you just dont know what you are talking about. but hey, as long as it sounds like your making a good point.

[BoutPractice]

The high school system in America is notoriously light on content and intellectual ambition - students come out of it with very little knowledge or critical thinking skills, especially in public schools. Whatever you learn in "XYZ 101" would have already been covered in a European secondary school.

The French system isn't one I would overly praise, but by the end of secondary schools, students will typically have a basic understanding of math, science, history and geography lacking in the American student. They will even know a bit of philosophy...

However, it has to be said that the American system is much better at preparing students for life outside of school. Because American culture encourages participation from a young age, American students entering college know less, but do more than their French counterparts. Many of them work humbling part time jobs, they volunteer, they play sports... they join bands, drive cars, and get laid. Some of them already start businesses, or start tinkering with computers... Unsurprisingly, they generally enter into the adult world with a more positive mindset about the world, and a greater openness to change and serendipity. Finally, they tend to have a totally misplaced sense of self-confidence, which however irritating ends up serving them well.

This does not show up in stats, but goes a long way towards explaining how a country with such underwhelming test scores is still a hub of science and innovation. The positive effect of the American style of education is particularly strong for those young adults with high potential, who will learn the facts on their own anyway but have more opportunities for translating those gifts into tangible achievements, and a larger sense of possibility.

Ideally an educational system would find some kind of equilibrium between knowledge and know-how - some European countries have already achieved something close to that - but the American approach isn't half as bad as it's made out to be.

[Dresta]

No, just no. Higher education is not or should not be aimed for "intellectually gifted people". That is nonsense and the ramifications of that would lead to a degeneration in general technology and other industries that rely on college to produce talent and work. you just dont know what you are talking about. but hey, as long as it sounds like your making a good point.
:roll:

You're a prime example of someone who shouldn't be going anywhere near higher education, but probably will end up in some shitty College learning some worthless degree on the back of a subsidised loan, paid for by people who actually work; Christ, with you, high school would be a waste of time and money. But alas, entitlement culture is gonna give you a 4 year vacation before you start working in KFC.

Universities are centres of learning, not centres for job-training - these are functions that would find an outlet with or without universities (that the government pays people to study finance is hilarious: as if these industries would not train their own people if the government wasn't paying for it and saving them the trouble). The Germans make a clear distinction between these two things, and their industries are far more effective than American ones, nor do they have the obscene trade deficit of a country like America. They stream based on academic ability at around 14 (i believe), and those who don't meet the grade go to some technical college, where they learn some skill or trade; these people, if shunted into universities with those who actually deserve to be there, end up degrading and dragging down the standards and academic culture of all. Again, it is the most simple logic that tells you MORE MEANS WORSE - that is an axiomatic truth, ignore it however you like.

If what you were saying were true you would not have America with an enormous trade deficit and hoards of university graduates working as waiters and taxi drivers. Basically, your post is so incredibly ignorant, and so utterly incorrect, that it quite boggles the mind.

[nathanjizzle]

:roll:

You're a prime example of someone who shouldn't be going anywhere near higher education, but probably will end up in some shitty College learning some worthless degree on the back of a subsidised loan, paid for by people who actually work; Christ, with you, high school would be a waste of time and money. But alas, entitlement culture is gonna give you a 4 year vacation before you start working in KFC.

Universities are centres of learning, not centres for job-training - these are functions that would find an outlet with or without universities (that the government pays people to study finance is hilarious: as if these industries would not train their own people if the government wasn't paying for it and saving them the trouble). The Germans make a clear distinction between these two things, and their industries are far more effective than American ones, nor do they have the obscene trade deficit of a country like America. They stream based on academic ability at around 14 (i believe), and those who don't meet the grade go to some technical college, where they learn some skill or trade; these people, if shunted into universities with those who actually deserve to be there, end up degrading and dragging down the standards and academic culture of all. Again, it is the most simple logic that tells you MORE MEANS WORSE - that is an axiomatic truth, ignore it however you like.

If what you were saying were true you would not have America with an enormous trade deficit and hoards of university graduates working as waiters and taxi drivers. Basically, your post is so incredibly ignorant, and so utterly incorrect, that it quite boggles the mind.

sorry but you just dont know what you are talking about. You spew alot of shit that doesnt correlate in reality. Industries like computer science dont have the time to train people to professional standards, these are businesses of industry, not businesses of schools. 2-3 years spending money to train an employee base and culling out the unfit is not possible nor efficient otherwise they would be doing it now. The influx of students relying on universities for a career path is beyond what the job market offers. however, it would even be a greater problem if 98 percent of those intellectually "ungifted" college students were sent to trade schools or community colleges. the trade job market would be over flooded and those graduates would again suffer from low salary or unemployment. and the jobs that would have been filled by your intellectually ungifted university student is now unfilled and stalls the growth of the industry it is in. The demand and supply for industry jobs always balance themselves out. Imagine if the tech industry didnt have the surplus or even adequate amount of university students in the 90s and 2000's studying computer science, that industry would not be here where it is today.

BTW, guys like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs wernt intellectually gifted. but they built their empires based on the opportunities their universities gave them. Just being "intelligent" doesnt cut it, you have to have more talents and skills than just intelligence to be someone that leads in society, and by your idealogy, youd be culling the only people to learn in universities that wouldnt beable to lead in the real world.

[GIF REACTION]

But that was when we were friends. "When we were friends!"

[christian1923]

Who cares if students can't do basic math off the top of thier head. Google or YouTube will answer their problems in 5 minutes.

[Dresta]

sorry but you just dont know what you are talking about. You spew alot of shit that doesnt correlate in reality. Industries like computer science dont have the time to train people to professional standards, these are businesses of industry, not businesses of schools. 2-3 years spending money to train an employee base and culling out the unfit is not possible nor efficient otherwise they would be doing it now. The influx of students relying on universities for a career path is beyond what the job market offers. however, it would even be a greater problem if 98 percent of those intellectually "ungifted" college students were sent to trade schools or community colleges. the trade job market would be over flooded and those graduates would again suffer from low salary or unemployment. and the jobs that would have been filled by your intellectually ungifted university student is now unfilled and stalls the growth of the industry it is in. The demand and supply for industry jobs always balance themselves out. Imagine if the tech industry didnt have the surplus or even adequate amount of university students in the 90s and 2000's studying computer science, that industry would not be here where it is today.

BTW, guys like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs wernt intellectually gifted. but they built their empires based on the opportunities their universities gave them. Just being "intelligent" doesnt cut it, you have to have more talents and skills than just intelligence to be someone that leads in society, and by your idealogy, youd be culling the only people to learn in universities that wouldnt beable to lead in the real world.
This post really is one massive pile of bullshit. There literally isn't a single remotely accurate assertion in the whole thing. Computer Science is apparently an 'industry' in your poor deluded mind. You see this?:

'Industries like computer science dont have the time to train people to professional standards, these are businesses of industry, not businesses of schools. 2-3 years spending money to train an employee base and culling out the unfit is not possible nor efficient otherwise they would be doing it now. The influx of students relying on universities for a career path is beyond what the job market offers.'

That makes no sense, grammatically, syntactically, or logically - it is like someone just vomited onto your keyboard. Look how uneducated you are: you can't even string a sentence that makes sense together, and yet here you are, lecturing other people about education (when you clearly have none, and have no experience in higher education) :lol - you're a real fruitcake man.

And Steve Jobs was a college drop out; he didn't get any of his opportunities from his university:

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Steve-Jobs-get-his-knowledge-without-going-to-college


However, whether he attended college is largely moot with regard to his success as an entrepreneur, as college does not prepare one for entrepreneurship. This timeline of Jobs' career has several clues to the source of his knowledge: How Steve Jobs Started - The Life Of Apple's Founder. Note that his father taught him electronics and his mother taught him to read, both at early ages. Not only are these relevant skills for his future path, but more importantly, he one can infer that a love of learning and creativity were instilled in him as core values when he was growing up.

Instead of spending his formative years satisfying the requirements of a college degree, Jobs embarked on some pretty deep exploration of himself and the world, including auditing creative classes at Reed, experimenting with psychedelic drugs, taking up Zen Buddhism, and traveling to India.

After this explorative phase of his life, he returned to his home, which just happened to be a bastion of the early computer revolution. There were already many startup and established computer companies in the Silicon Valley at that time. Jobs found a job with one of these early computer companies, Atari, and had only to turn to high school friends and neighbors to find partners (Fernandez, Wozniak) with deeper technical skills when he launched Apple Computer.

What Steve Jobs brought to Apple Computer and his other ventures was creativity and a way of seeing possibilities that others could not see. If anything, his lack of a technical education made this possible, because he was not limited by what the engineering establishment at the time said was possible. He had just enough technical background to communication with engineers, along with an intuition for usability that is rare among engineers. So he immediately saw the importance of the keyboard and CRT display that Wozniak had hacked together as a debugging aid. Later, since Jobs enjoyed listening to music and was frustrated by the early "walkman" type of portable CD players, he came up with the idea of the iPod.

Steve Jobs' creativity and sheer gumption, rather than knowledge, was the key to his success.
None of this required expensive and frivolous University courses to be taught to a ridiculous percentage of the population. And anyway, when compared with people like you Steve Jobs was a first-class genius, and it seems as if his parents were as big an influence as any, and there were certainly many more important factors than formal schooling (in fact, almost all intelligent high-achievers say what they learnt at college did next to nothing for their intellectual development). This is a very common theme, and you'd know it, if you were capable of reading something written by such people.

You're a bloody joke dude. If you think the above paragraph of yours makes the slightest bit of sense, or contains coherent logic of any kind, then you are very much mistaken.

[Jameerthefear]

damn nathan SHIT on dresta
the old college dropout got BTFO

[theballerFKA Ace]

In certain ways I think kids today are smarter than the past generation. And also I think more blame should be put on schools because its not the students fault what they are learning and how.

Everyone except for Asians are getting dumber. It's the only demographic that appreciates success and condemns failure. Hispanics in the US especially, have seen enormous drops in IQ and test results. They used to be closer to whites in testing, now they are closer to blacks.

[Nick Young]

If anything it is the opposite. I bet law and med degrees are a lot easier to obtain in India and China than here. I went to a dentist office and walked out of the room because of how clueless the "doctor" was. Not sure if he was middle eastern or Italian but no way in hell he would made the grade at a university here.
in most cases, yes, even in countries like India and China, the university degree course is actually more vigorous and difficult than its US equivalent, atleast in the top Chinese and Indian schools, not bootleg scam ones..