Pope Benedict XVI to resign

[Lebron23]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/9862194/Pope-Benedict-XVI-to-resign.html

I want to see an Asian or Black Pope.

[magic chiongson]

david stern could learn from him on how to resign properly

[Graviton]

david stern could learn from him on how to resign properly
http://thehusker.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/David-Stern-Jim-Rome-GF.gif

[Lebron23]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/11/1360583798096/Cardinal-Peter-Turkson-of-010.jpg

The favourite to replace Pope Benedict XVI - Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction

[gigantes]

fare thee well, emperor palpatine. we had some good times at the expense of others, you and i.


http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/557736_422637897752228_201900393159314_1897599_119 9028185_n.jpeg

[magic chiongson]

in time for episode 7?

[rufuspaul]

He just gave God his 2 weeks notice.

[East_Stone_Ya]

servus dei :eek:


http://smhttp.14409.nexcesscdn.net/806D5E/wordpress-L/images/angels-and-demons-2.jpg

[gigantes]

in time for episode 7?
it would have to be a clone, obviously.

[miller-time]

I'd like to see the church dissolved, the money go to the needy and/or scientific research, and the pedophile priests that have been protected to be exposed and sent to prison.

[rufuspaul]

The Pope adopts social media, loses interest in his day job. Understandable.

[rufuspaul]

I'd like to see the church dissolved, the money go to the needy and/or scientific research, and the pedophile priests that have been protected to be exposed and sent to prison.


The Church as an institution has many flaws, so does the US government. I don't advocate the dissolution of either.

[LJJ]

Maybe they'll be able to elect a pope who wasn't a Nazi/sex offender this time.

[NauruDude]

I think he's a muslim now?

[RoboticWang]

http://i.imgur.com/W83fxtc.jpg

Here is the list by some leading bookmakers.

5/2 Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson
3/1 Cardinal Marc Ouellet
4/1 Cardinal Francis Arinze
6/1 Cardinal Angelo Scola
10/1 Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga
14/1 Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone
14/1 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco
16/1 Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio
25/1 Cardinal Leonardo Sandri
25/1 Cardinal Claudio Hummes
25/1 Cardinal Wilfred Fox Napier
33/1 Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi
33/1 Archbishop Raymond Burke
33/1 Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera
33/1 Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi
33/1 Cardinal Timothy Dolan
33/1 Cardinal Camillo Ruini
33/1 Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn
33/1 Cardinal Ivan Dias
40/1 Cardinal Francisco Javier Errazuriz Ossa
40/1 Cardinal William Levada
66/1 Cardinal George Pell
66/1 Monsignor Pietro Parolin

Gooby pls

[rufuspaul]

Maybe they'll be able to elect a pope who wasn't a Nazi/sex offender this time.


:oldlol: Yeah, good luck with that Cardinals.

[RoboticWang]

He wants to be able to spend more time with the kids.

[JerryWest]

He wants to be able to spend more time with the kids.
:lebronamazed:

[gigantes]

He wants to be able to spend more time with the kids.
yes... i heard that they're 57 and 61 now, and are going through a critical stretch in which they need as much guidance as possible.

bravo to benedict for thinking of his family at a time like this. :cheers:

[RoboticWang]

yes... i heard that they're 57 and 61 now, and are going through a critical stretch in which they need as much guidance as possible.

bravo to benedict for thinking of his family at a time like this. :cheers:
:coleman:

[DukeDelonte13]

They came close to electing a pretty liberal south american guy instead of Ratzinger (aka Benedict 16) who was known to be the most conservative cardinal there was. I think his nickname was "father no" or something like that. A lot of people were unhappy that this dude got to be pope. Hopefully the church picks a guy who isn't so disconnected with reality.

[Tarik One]

There's Vegas odds on the next pope Betting: Who will be the next Pope?

5/2 Cardinal Marc Ouellet

9/4 7/2 Cardinal Peter Turkson

7/2 Cardinal Francis Arinze

7/1 8/1 Archbishop Angelo Scola

10/1 Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga

12/1 14/1 Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

14/1 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco

16/1 20/1 Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio

20/1 Cardinal Leonardo Sandri

25/1 Cardinal Raymond Burke

25/1 Cardinal Cladio Hummes

25/1 Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi

25/1 Cardinal Christoph von Schonborn

33/1 Cardinal Wilfrid Napier

33/1 Cardinal William Levada

33/1 Cardinal Camillo Ruini

33/1 Cardinal Norberto Rivera Carrera

33/1 Cardinal Francisco Javier Errazuriz Ossa

33/1 Cardinal Renato Martino

33/1 Cardinal Albert Malcolm Ranjith

33/1 Archbishop Piero Marini

33/1 Cardinal Antonio Canizares Llovera

33/1 Cardinal Keith O

[Patrick Chewing]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/11/1360583798096/Cardinal-Peter-Turkson-of-010.jpg

The favourite to replace Pope Benedict XVI - Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction


Black President. Now a Black Pope??? What's next, Black God???? OH lawd!!!

[rufuspaul]

Black President. Now a Black Pope??? What's next, Black God???? OH lawd!!!


That pic is screaming for a Lebron photoshop.

[gigantes]

Black President. Now a Black Pope??? What's next, Black God???? OH lawd!!!
next thing you know, someone will put a black man in their avatar!!!!!!!

[InspiredLebowski]

Phil Jackson to the Vatican?

[Styles p]

He's about to start collecting his Hitler Youth pension.

[CelticBaller]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/2/11/1360583798096/Cardinal-Peter-Turkson-of-010.jpg

The favourite to replace Pope Benedict XVI - Cardinal Peter Turkson of Ghana.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/11/pope-resigns-live-reaction
A brother as the pope? :applause:

[LJJ]

The results of the papal conclave have already been leaked:

http://i.imgur.com/6HeBaBm.jpg

[KevinNYC]

I didn't even know popes quit. Kind of assumed they were just pope until they keeled over like the last dude.

It's pretty rare. Folks are wondering if it's tied the HBO documentary on child abuse.


When I learned of the news that Pope Benedict XVI was going to become the first pope in six centuries to resign from office, I immediately thought, I wonder what Alex Gibney makes of this? His documentary, Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God details the integral role that Benedict, when he was Cardinal Ratzinger, played in investigating the sex-abuse scandals that have rocked the Catholic Church, and, given the ample space that the New York Times devoted to that subject in its report on the resignation, I was left with impression that, behind the scenes, the continuing controversy may have played a part in the Pope's decision to step down.

"I can't help but think that the sex abuse crisis must have been on his mind," Gibney emailed back when I asked for his take on the news. "There was no going forward on that issue while he was in office." The filmmaker added: "I give him credit for resigning. That brought a bit of modernity to the Papacy."
......
Here's how the Times carefully put it:

In 2010, as outrage built over clerical abuses, some secular and liberal Catholic voices called for his resignation, their demands fueled by reports that laid part of the blame at his doorstep, citing his response both as a bishop long ago in Germany and as a cardinal heading the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which handles such cases.
In one disclosure, news emerged that in 1985, when Benedict was Cardinal Ratzinger, he signed a letter putting off efforts to defrock a convicted child-molesting priest. He cited the priest’s relative youth but also the good of the church.
Vatican officials and experts who follow the papacy dismissed the idea of his stepping down at the time. “There is no objective motive to think in terms of resignation, absolutely no motive,” said Father Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman. “It’s a completely unfounded idea.”
For his supporters, it was a painful paradox that the long-gathering abuse scandal finally hit the Vatican with a vengeance under Benedict. As the leader of the powerful Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, he had been ahead of many of his peers in recognizing how deeply the church had been damaged by revelations that priests around the world had sexually abused youths for decades. As early as 2005, he obliquely referred to priestly abuse as a “filth in the church.”
He went on to apologize for the abuse and met with victims, a first for the papacy. But he could not escape the reality that the church had shielded priests accused of molesting, minimized behavior it would have otherwise deemed immoral and hid the misdeeds from the civil authorities, forestalling criminal prosecution.

[RoboticWang]

http://i.imgur.com/6VHK1u8.jpg

[kentatm]

the last straw

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/nursetpd/Notre%20Dame/The_Final_Straw_zps1ad7509b.jpg

[Patrick Chewing]

Hope the next pope dresses better, look at these ridiculous clothes.


http://www.wrestlingvalley.org/wv/02/28464/28464.jpg

[gigantes]

http://www.wrestlingvalley.org/wv/02/28464/28464.jpg
that was the best thing i've seen in 10,000 years.

thank you, sir. :bowdown:

[CarlosBoozer]

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2013/02/tumblr-mgyrwj5pff1qie0t2o1-500.jpg

credits to dond

[jbot]

there is something behind this other than him being just old and weak. catholic church is so corrupt.

[gigantes]

That was the fashion at the time
f-ck you.

[Draz]

http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2013/02/tumblr-mgyrwj5pff1qie0t2o1-500.jpg

credits to dond

Don't know what's more wrong, the fact I know what that picture is about .. or that he's stepping down.

[DCL]

he probably got tired of standing up for the institution that promotes pedo f@ggot priests.

[magic chiongson]

it would have to be a clone, obviously.

he'll appear in spirit to guide the next sith apprentice

[rufuspaul]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/popewind_zpsdf5c78c9.jpg


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/southparkpope_zps2ff7ced1.jpg

[LamarOdom]

Nah, I think he's tired of being an ex-Nazi that stands up for pedophiles.

He never was a Nazi, his family had to move 4 times before the age of 10 because they tried to stay away from the Nazis. He was born in the 20s and at the time he became 17-18 years old it was mandatory for all German to join the military.

[HardwoodLegend]

Don't know what's more wrong, the fact I know what that picture is about .. or that he's stepping down.

What is that picture about?

Looks like he's on the set of 'The Office' or something.

[LJJ]

He never was a Nazi, his family had to move 4 times before the age of 10 because they tried to stay away from the Nazis. He was born in the 20s and at the time he became 17-18 years old it was mandatory for all German to join the military.

He was certainly a member Hitlerjugend and thus a Nazi. It's true that in those days membership was mandatory for all youth, but still quite a large clique of morally inclined people declined membership. At any rate it's a normal thing for a German his age to have been a Nazi. What makes it foul in this case is that this is the top religious figure in the world, who is constantly passing down moral judgment on humanity. Yet the one time his personal morality was strongly challenged he buckled like a wet noodle and took convenience over his morality.

Of course, the willfull enabling of mass sexual abuse and covering up horrifying criminal activity Ratzinger did is much more damning that his questionable Germanic youth.

[LamarOdom]

He was certainly a member Hitlerjugend and thus a Nazi. It's true that in those days membership was mandatory for all youth, but still quite a large clique of morally inclined people declined membership.

Of course, the willfull enabling of mass sexual abuse and covering up horrifying criminal activity Ratzinger did is much more damning that his questionable Germanic youth.

He was part of the youth group but that doesn't make him a Nazi just as being in the American army right now doesn't make you a Democrat.

"morally inclined" would you want your parents to be imprisoned, lol keep acting cool and saying you wouldn't join but I know for damn sure that you as a 14 year old wouldn't even open your mouth.

What enabling? has he ever said it's okay to sexually abuse?

[fiddy]

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2013/02/11/foto/dimissioni_papa_fulmini_su_san_pietro_la_foto_simb olo-52433445/#1

Lightning strikes St Peter the day the pope announced his resignment.

[BrickingStar]

He was part of the youth group but that doesn't make him a Nazi just as being in the American army right now doesn't make you a Democrat.

"morally inclined" would you want your parents to be imprisoned, lol keep acting cool and saying you wouldn't join but I know for damn sure that you as a 14 year old wouldn't even open your mouth.

What enabling? has he ever said it's okay to sexually abuse?
This. I don't have any reason to defend him but only an idiot would actually make that Nazi thing a big deal.

[LJJ]

He was part of the youth group but that doesn't make him a Nazi just as being in the American army right now doesn't make you a Democrat.

"morally inclined" would you want your parents to be imprisoned, lol keep acting cool and saying you wouldn't join but I know for damn sure that you as a 14 year old wouldn't even open your mouth.

What enabling? has he ever said it's okay to sexually abuse?

He was part of the Hitlerjugend which in turn is part of the NSDAP political entity. He's part of the Nazi political party thus he is a Nazi, it's really that simple. The US military is not a partisan political organisation, the Hitlerjugend was.

And I'm not saying I wouldn't be a Nazi. Who knows what one would do in such a situation? We know that millions of Germans were Nazis. Hell, there is the Milgram experiment and all that. But there actually are millions of Germans in Ratzinger's exact position who did decline to become a member of the Nazi party.

But at least I don't know for sure. Yet it is a 100% certainty that when Ratzinger faced his most important test of true morality he failed. And he is the Pope, he casts down continuous moral judgment as the leading religious figure of the world. I don't see why any comparison with me is pressing, the Pope is supposed to be an extraordinarily pious figure. If he's just as terrible as the average human, what's the point?

But alas. I already said his history of enabling sexual abuse is far more important. But the fact that he was a Nazi should not be insignificant for a figure like the Pope.



And I'm not your daddy. You can easily type a few keywords into google and find out all about Ratzinger's unrelenting help and enabling of practicing pedophile clergymen. It's widely available and publicized upon information.

[LamarOdom]

He was part of the Hitlerjugend which in turn is part of the NSDAP political entity. He's part of the Nazi political party thus he is a Nazi, it's really that simple. The US military is not a partisan political organisation, the Hitlerjugend was.

And I'm not saying I wouldn't be a Nazi. Who knows what one would do in such a situation? We know that millions of Germans were Nazi's. Hell, there is the Milgram experiment and all that. But there actually are millions of Germans in Ratzinger's exact position who did decline to become a member of the Nazi party.

But at least I don't know for sure. Yet it is a 100% certainty that when Ratzinger faced his most important test of true morality he failed. And he is the Pope, he casts down continuous moral judgment as the leading religious figure of the world. I don't see why any comparison with me is pressing, the Pope is supposed to be an extraordinarily pious figure. If he's just as terrible as the average human, what's the point?

But alas. I already said his history of enabling sexual abuse is far more important. But the fact that he was a Nazi should not be insignificant for a figure like the Pope.



And I'm not your daddy. You can easily type a few keywords into google and find out all about Ratzinger's unrelenting help and enabling of practicing pedophile clergymen. It's widely available and publicized upon information.

Are you really that stupid? Nazism is an ideology so let me go through this one more time.

1. he was 14 years old when he joined.
2. 1939 it became MANDATORY to join.

[LJJ]

[QUOTE=LamarOdom]
1. he was 14 years old when he joined.
2. 1939 it became MANDATORY to join.

[DonDadda59]

What enabling? has he ever said it's okay to sexually abuse?

HBO recently aired a documentary on the subject directed by an academy award-winning director. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but here's an excerpt from the director on the subject of Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) from an interview:



The story of sex abuse in the Catholic Church has been told in a number of other recent documentary films. Why retell the story?

There were two things: this local case, the Milwaukee case, uncovered documents that lead straight to the top, straight to Joseph Ratzinger—then-cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict. So you could see this sex-abuse crisis not as a few bad apples, but evidence of a rotten barrel. The other thing was, for all the darkness about this story, it was oddly inspirational for me. These guys at the heart of the story, these deaf men, mounted the very first public protest of clerical sex abuse in the United States. This is a case where a priest abused 200 deaf children. What more heinous crime could you imagine? But the victims, who were so marginalized because they couldn’t speak to a hearing audience, nevertheless managed to have a huge impact—from a small parish in Milwaukee all the way to the top of the Vatican.

....

You say that Pope Ratzinger and the former Pope John Paul knew this was happening and covered it up in a Joe Paterno kind of way.

I don’t see Ratzinger as a monster. I see him as a deeply flawed human being who aided and abetted criminality. I think he is offended by men who abuse their power by abusing children. He says he is disgusted by [the abuse], and I believe him. But he lives within this institution, with this group of men who exist between mortals and the angels, and he favors protecting the institution to protecting the children. That to me is his great crime. It makes him weak, and, ultimately, I think it makes him a criminal.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/04/alex-gibney-s-mea-maxima-culpa-sex-lies-and-the-catholic-church.html

Kind of odd that Ratzinger just became the first pope to resign in 6 centuries... only a few days after the documentary aired. I'm sure it's purely coincidence though.

[LamarOdom]

Yes, it's wasn't convenient to decline membership, I've gone over that. (actually, the fine and imprisonment are lies, but whatevs) Millions of Germans in the exact same position still declined. Ratzinger chose the convenience.

He was a child for Gods sake and what makes you say that the fine and imprisonment are lies?

[BrickingStar]

HBO recently aired a documentary on the subject directed by an academy award-winning director. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but here's an excerpt from the director on the subject of Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) from an interview:



The story of sex abuse in the Catholic Church has been told in a number of other recent documentary films. Why retell the story?

There were two things: this local case, the Milwaukee case, uncovered documents that lead straight to the top, straight to Joseph Ratzinger—then-cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict. So you could see this sex-abuse crisis not as a few bad apples, but evidence of a rotten barrel. The other thing was, for all the darkness about this story, it was oddly inspirational for me. These guys at the heart of the story, these deaf men, mounted the very first public protest of clerical sex abuse in the United States. This is a case where a priest abused 200 deaf children. What more heinous crime could you imagine? But the victims, who were so marginalized because they couldn’t speak to a hearing audience, nevertheless managed to have a huge impact—from a small parish in Milwaukee all the way to the top of the Vatican.

....

You say that Pope Ratzinger and the former Pope John Paul knew this was happening and covered it up in a Joe Paterno kind of way.

I don’t see Ratzinger as a monster. I see him as a deeply flawed human being who aided and abetted criminality. I think he is offended by men who abuse their power by abusing children. He says he is disgusted by [the abuse], and I believe him. But he lives within this institution, with this group of men who exist between mortals and the angels, and he favors protecting the institution to protecting the children. That to me is his great crime. It makes him weak, and, ultimately, I think it makes him a criminal.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/04/alex-gibney-s-mea-maxima-culpa-sex-lies-and-the-catholic-church.html

[B]Kind of odd that Ratzinger just became the first pope to resign in 6 centuries... only a few days after the documentary aired. I'm sure it's purely coincidence though.
So we should assuume he resigned over a non viral documentary that already aired?

[LamarOdom]

HBO recently aired a documentary on the subject directed by an academy award-winning director. I haven't had a chance to see it yet but here's an excerpt from the director on the subject of Ratzinger (Pope Benedict) from an interview:



Kind of odd that Ratzinger just became the first pope to resign in 6 centuries... only a few days after the documentary aired. I'm sure it's purely coincidence though.


Haven't heard about the documentary but what makes everything that is said in this one true?

[DonDadda59]

So we should assuume he resigned over a non viral documentary that already aired?

No, you should assume that there's more to the story of a pope resigning (something that hasn't happened in c. 600 years) than him suddenly 'not having the strength' anymore.

You don't find anything strange about that?

[LJJ]

He was a child for Gods sake and what makes you say that the fine and imprisonment are lies?

He was a 14 to 17 year old child in those days yes. And I'm not saying it doesn't require quite a strong and just morality to stand up to the Nazis in those days.

Like I said, millions in Germany still did this. And no, they were not fined or thrown into prison. Show me some record of millions of families being thrown in jail because they didn't have their son join the Hitlerjugend? It's a fable.

And like I also said, he is the Pope. I expect a little extra from person like that morally, because of the great moral burden a Pope himself chooses to impose on people.

[BrickingStar]

He was a 14 to 17 year old child in those days yes. And I'm not saying it doesn't require quite a strong and just morality to stand up to the Nazis in those days.

Like I said, millions in Germany still did this. And no, they were not fined or thrown into prison. Show me some record of millions of families being thrown in jail because they didn't have their son join the Hitlerjugend? It's a fable.

And like I also said, he is the Pope. I expect a little extra from person like that morally, because of the great moral burden a Pope himself chooses to impose on people.
He wasn't the Pope back then and I'm sure I wouldn't hold him and 80+% of the 10-14 year olds back then for joining that group.

[DonDadda59]

Haven't heard about the documentary but what makes everything that is said in this one true?

I would assume documented proof. The cover up of child sex abuse by the Catholic Church is no secret, no matter how badly you want to turn a blind eye to it. It's been a problem for as long as the institution has been around, it's just gotten more press in modern times.

Like I said, I haven't seen it yet. But I think it's re-airing sometime this week on HBO. You should watch it, try to put the blind faith aside while you do.

[LamarOdom]

He was a 14 to 17 year old child in those days yes. And I'm not saying it doesn't require quite a strong and just morality to stand up to the Nazis in those days.

Like I said, millions in Germany still did this. And no, they were not fined or thrown into prison. Show me some record of millions of families being thrown in jail because they didn't have their son join the Hitlerjugend? It's a fable.

And like I also said, he is the Pope. I expect a little extra from person like that morally, because of the great moral burden a Pope himself chooses to impose on people.

From what I've read in books and I honestly am to tired look up if I can find on the internet is that it was what would happened if you didn't sign up for HJ, now many didn't and they couldn't put every parent that didn't sign up their kid in prison, but the fear was always their I assume.

[BrickingStar]

I would assume documented proof. The cover up of child sex abuse by the Catholic Church is no secret, no matter how badly you want to turn a blind eye to it. It's been a problem for as long as the institution has been around, it's just gotten more press in modern times.

Like I said, I haven't seen it yet. But I think it's re-airing sometime this week on HBO. You should watch it, try to put the blind faith aside while you do.
Assuming he resigned over a documentary that isn't viral and already aired is complete bias against him. You think they're talking about it there in Europe?

[LamarOdom]

I would assume documented proof. The cover up of child sex abuse by the Catholic Church is no secret, no matter how badly you want to turn a blind eye to it. It's been a problem for as long as the institution has been around, it's just gotten more press in modern times.

Like I said, I haven't seen it yet. But I think it's re-airing sometime this week on HBO. You should watch it, try to put the blind faith aside while you do.

I'll look when it airs and try to catch it but it haven't even gained that much exposure now I would assume the catholic church has been through bigger scandals why would this one make him abdicate? it just sounds to far fetched.

[DonDadda59]

Assuming he resigned over a documentary that isn't viral and already aired is complete bias against him. You think they're talking about it there in europe?

It might be that there is more information coming out as a result of the documentary's investigation into the matter. You have to remember that this particular case is just one of many worldwide scandals by the Catholic Church. Ratzinger was right in the middle of many of them (Example (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/questions-pope-benedicts-role-sex-scandal/story?id=10241536)). Could be that he's trying to save face (for himself, the church, and the papacy) by stepping down.

You can't seriously believe that he's the first pope to step down in 600 years because his strength is gone. John Paul II was pope when he was old and far more feeble than Ratz, until he took his last breath. Which has been the case for again 600 years. But Ratz is stepping down because he can't bench press as much as he did last week and you buy that? :oldlol:

Guess I have to remember that blind faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive.

[BrickingStar]

It might be that there is more information coming out as a result of the documentary's investigation into the matter. You have to remember that this particular case is just one of many worldwide scandals by the Catholic Church. Ratzinger was right in the middle of many of them (Example (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/questions-pope-benedicts-role-sex-scandal/story?id=10241536)). Could be that he's trying to save face (for himself, the church, and the papacy) by stepping down.

You can't seriously believe that he's the first pope to step down in 600 years because his strength is gone. John Paul II was pope when he was old and far more feeble than Ratz, until he took his last breath. Which has been the case for again 600 years. But Ratz is stepping down because he can't bench press as much as he did last week and you buy that? :oldlol:

Guess I have to remember that blind faith and critical thinking are mutually exclusive.
I'm agnostic if you're trying to categorize me with the bold. The pope is 86.Until recently popes didn't "generally" travel around behind bullet proof glass. Times change. People live longer these days so we now have very many very old people...and popes. These men can no longer hide behind dozens of supporters; there are cameras everywhere and televised speeches expected. Most importantly modern medicine provides a suite of cognitive tests that can identify the early signs of dementia, and give you a heads up when you are still lucid enough to understand the diagnosis or in other words notice the cognitives signes before cognitive decline before being diagnosed with something like Alzheimer's. You act like you're 86 and know what it's like to give much energy at his age. Certainly I don't share your bias or in other words like you said "blind faith" to assume that such a conspiracy is the reason he resigned over human nature.

[DonDadda59]

What'd I tell you? :oldlol:

From a few hours ago:

[INDENT]Pope Benedict resigns: sex abuse survivors hope move eases prosecution
[B]Victims and their advocates

[BrickingStar]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]What'd I tell you? :oldlol:

From a few hours ago:

[INDENT]Pope Benedict resigns: sex abuse survivors hope move eases prosecution
[B]Victims and their advocates

[LamarOdom]

What exactly does this prove or tell us things we didn't already know?

Exactly what I was going to say, only thing it tells me is that David Clohessy the executive director of Snap is saying....


Clohessy told the Guardian: "Before he became pope his predecessor put him in charge of the abuse crisis. He has read thousands of pages of reports of the abuse cases from across the world. He knows more about clergy sex crimes and cover-ups than anyone else in the church yet he has done precious little to protect children."

This is a guy who totally hates the Pope and why would he know information such as this? this like something only the highest of the highest in the Vatican should know.

No this is just speculations which is something we'll always see when big events such as this happens but this is just reaching, no proof whatsoever.

The pope is a good man and until further proof comes it will still be my beliefs.

[ClutchOver9000]

I know its almost an impossibility but I hope Cardinal Dolan gets chosen as the new pope simply for my personal amusement.

That would be too epic...

[Skywalker]

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1121/popesowky7.jpg

[mrpuente]

I cant blame the pope for wanting to retire.

If my boss never showed up to work, I wouldnt have any motivation either.

[rufuspaul]

I know its almost an impossibility but I hope Cardinal Dolan gets chosen as the new pope simply for my personal amusement.

That would be too epic...


He's hilarious. I went to Easter mass last year at St. Patrick Cathedral in NYC. He comes across almost as an Irish stereotype. I could definitely see him in a bar swilling Guiness and whiskey, telling off color jokes and cursing like a sailor.

[Jasi]

Funny to see how differently you guys in the US see things.

There is absolutely no doubt here in Italy that BXVI did not abdicate because of whatever "secret report/documentary" you guys are babbling about.
(The alleged "sex scandal" is water under the bridge. Actually Ratzinger has been one of the most active Popes against pedophilia in the Church - which, with all due respect to actual victims and their suffering, remains a statistical nullity).

JPII was in the saddle, despite his illness, until he died... because everyone in the Vatican was with him and he could trust ALL of his cooperators.
This is probably not the case for BXVI; there is a very well-known clash between two factions in the Vatican, one which is faithful to Ratzinger (guided by the president of Italian Episcopes, cardinal Angelo Bagnasco) and one which is not (led by the Vatican State Secretary, cardinal Tarcisio Bertone).

This is the most common line of thought among vaticanists.
I am not saying I agree with it, but it seems reasonable.
Certainly much more than an HBO documentary :lol


As concerns the next Conclave...
If the above interpretation of BXVI's abdication is correct, then it is to be expected that Ratzinger also did it so as to let his "faction" hold the keys to the elections.
(And no, Dolan is not really a strong candidate... no US cardinal really is, understandably).

[Scoooter]

Interesting Jasi. Are you a Catholic?

Also, what does Andrea Bargnagni think about all this?

[Jasi]

Interesting Jasi. Are you a Catholic?

Also, what does Andrea Bargnagni think about all this?

1) Yes.
2) As far as I know he hasn't issued any official statement on the matter, despite the remarkable anticipation from all cardinals and vaticanists. It's spelled Bargnani by the way.

[lakers_forever]

Funny to see how differently you guys in the US see things.

There is absolutely no doubt here in Italy that BXVI did not abdicate because of whatever "secret report/documentary" you guys are babbling about.
(The alleged "sex scandal" is water under the bridge. Actually Ratzinger has been one of the most active Popes against pedophilia in the Church - which, with all due respect to actual victims and their suffering, remains a statistical nullity).

JPII was in the saddle, despite his illness, until he died... because everyone in the Vatican was with him and he could trust ALL of his cooperators.
This is probably not the case for BXVI; there is a very well-known clash between two factions in the Vatican, one which is faithful to Ratzinger (guided by the president of Italian Episcopes, cardinal Angelo Bagnasco) and one which is not (led by the Vatican State Secretary, cardinal Tarcisio Bertone).

This is the most common line of thought among vaticanists.
I am not saying I agree with it, but it seems reasonable.
Certainly much more than an HBO documentary :lol


As concerns the next Conclave...
If the above interpretation of BXVI's abdication is correct, then it is to be expected that Ratzinger also did it so as to let his "faction" hold the keys to the elections.
(And no, Dolan is not really a strong candidate... no US cardinal really is, understandably).

Exactly. It's that old american thinking that they influence everything.
HBO documentary. :lol It does not mean anything to catholics around the world, let alone the Cardinals in the Vatican (some probably don't even know what HBO is).
Of couse I feel sorry for victims of those sick priests (and even one case is already a shame for the Church). But like you said, it's statistical nullity. 99% of priests have never been accused of anything.
Studies by Charol Shakeshaft commissioned by the United States Department of Education show that abuse in schools are 100 times worse than by priests.
Another study (became a book) by non Catholic Penn State Professor Philip Jenkins show that:
Statistically, of all the professions, Christian clergy are least likely to offend. Doctors, Farmers and Teachers are the professions most likely to abuse children