SVG Says LeBron>Jordan

[NumberSix]

Stan Van Gundy says LeBron is a better offensive player AND a better defensive player than Michael Jordan.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010_images/stan-vangundy.jpg

[cotdt]

LJ is pretty close at this point, but is far short in career acheivements.

[inclinerator]

link?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sauce?! :confusedshrug:

[bdreason]

Only 5 more titles and 5 more FMVP's and a few more regular season MVP's and some DPOY awards... and he'll be right there. :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Only 5 more titles and 5 more FMVP's and a few more regular season MVP's and some DPOY awards... and he'll be right there. :oldlol:
Yes, because you have to match achievements to be a better player. That's why Barkley will never be as good as Chauncy Billups. :hammerhead:

[Kingwillball]

Stan Van Gundy says LeBron is a better offensive player AND a better defensive player than Michael Jordan.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010_images/stan-vangundy.jpg


I hate these type of comparisons but LBJ needs to keep up this type of play for another couple years and with a couple more championships to even be in that conversation.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Yes, because you have to match achievements to be a better player. That's why Barkley will never be as good as Chauncy Billups. :hammerhead:

Barkley has more achievements (ALL NBA Awards/ All Star selections etc..) than Billups.:facepalm

[Big One]

Sauce?! :confusedshrug:

He said it on Dan lebatard's radio show today

[DonDadda59]

Happens every year or 2- a new flavor of the month comes along and is proclaimed 'the next Michael Jordan' with people going so far as to say that Enter player here is better than MJ. Hell, I remember when some people were saying Grant Hill would surpass Jordan :oldlol:

Lebron is a phenomenal, once in a generation type player and he is doing great things right now. But the guy already has too many blemishes and duds on the biggest stage to be in that conversation. Plus, let the man build his own legacy instead of comparing him to an impossible standard.

[nbaballllller]

LJ is pretty close at this point, but is far short in career acheivements.

well put.

especially when you consider lebron has only just turned 28. as a comparison lebron is doing very well at this stage.

Obviously if he wants to be mentioned or compared to jordan's achievements overall he still has alot more work to do

[NumberSix]

Happens every year or 2- a new flavor of the month comes along and is proclaimed 'the next Michael Jordan' with people going so far as to say that Enter player here is better than MJ. Hell, I remember when some people were saying Grant Hill would surpass Jordan :oldlol:

Lebron is a phenomenal, once in a generation type player and he is doing great things right now. But the guy already has too many blemishes and duds on the biggest stage to be in that conversation. Plus, let the man build his own legacy instead of comparing him to an impossible standard.
:wtf:

What does that have to do with anything?

Bill Russell is 21-0 in elimination games and has 11 championships. Do we say "oh, MJ can't even be in the conversation because he's lost in elimination games and has 5 less championships"?

Magic Johnson lost 4 finals. Do we say he can never be in the conversation with Tim Duncan?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He said it on Dan lebatard's radio show today

The f*cktard OP wants to troll like he's Euroleague, so thanks.

Here's the link: http://www.theticketmiami.com/podcast_lebatard.aspx

[NumberSix]

The f*cktard OP would rather troll like Euroleague, so thanks.

Here's the link people: http://www.theticketmiami.com/podcast_lebatard.aspx
How am I trolling? I'm just reporting the facts. He DID say it. I'm not spinning it or omitting context. Just facts. He said it.

[pauk]

What makes Lebron great offensively or defensively is different than what makes Jordan great offensively or defensively...

Different players man... yes there is some similarity, but Lebrons gamestyle is more closer to guys like Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Scottie Pippen... and even then he is not like any of those completely.... Lebron is Lebron

[shady6121]

What makes Lebron great offensively or defensively is different than what makes Jordan great offensively or defensively...

Different players man... yes there is some similarity, but Lebrons gamestyle is more closer to guys like Penny Hardaway, Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Scottie Pippen... and even then he is not like any of those completely.... Lebron is Lebron

This. :applause:

[LakersFan626]

He has a ways to go as I still remember that 8 point game in the Finals.

[plowking]

Happens every year or 2- a new flavor of the month comes along and is proclaimed 'the next Michael Jordan' with people going so far as to say that Enter player here is better than MJ. Hell, I remember when some people were saying Grant Hill would surpass Jordan :oldlol:

Lebron is a phenomenal, once in a generation type player and he is doing great things right now. But the guy already has too many blemishes and duds on the biggest stage to be in that conversation. Plus, let the man build his own legacy instead of comparing him to an impossible standard.

What are his blemishes? Failing in the finals? Better than failing earlier.

[Harison]

Happens every year or 2- a new flavor of the month comes along and is proclaimed 'the next Michael Jordan' with people going so far as to say that Enter player here is better than MJ. Hell, I remember when some people were saying Grant Hill would surpass Jordan :oldlol:

Lebron is a phenomenal, once in a generation type player and he is doing great things right now. But the guy already has too many blemishes and duds on the biggest stage to be in that conversation. Plus, let the man build his own legacy instead of comparing him to an impossible standard.

What he said.

We are seeing a new wave now, previously it was Kobe vs Jordan, now Lebron vs Jordan, soon Harden or Kyrie vs Jordan :facepalm People never learn.

[alleykat]

Nobody can take Jordan's legacy...same as nobody can take lebrons....different players...why must a player always be the next something? Kind of the reason why people hate on Kobe so much unfairly. They don't need to live up to anyone

[Djahjaga]

What he said.

We are seeing a new wave now, previously it was Kobe vs Jordan, now Lebron vs Jordan, soon Harden or Kyrie vs Jordan :facepalm People never learn.

Let's not act like the Kobe/Lebron to Jordan comparisons are nearly as far-fetched as calling Harold Miner, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, etc. the next Jordan.

Jordan is still fresh in the memory of the NBA (and will be for a while, probably). What Lebron has done this past year and a half is proved (IMO and in the opinions of many others) that he's the best player since Jordan. It's quite natural to compare him to Jordan, at this point.

At least we've moved on from the "next Jordan" phase and are instead comparing players to him in a more subtle way, in which we celebrate the differences between the two and don't try to fit every young up-and-comer into the Jordan mold.





Oh, and if Harden (or even Kyrie) is ever compared to Jordan to a similar degree as Lebron and Kobe have been, I would be shocked.

[Trentknicks]

Man no disrespect to Lebron but how could he be close to Jordan offensively. Jordan got practically assaulted when entering the paint by defenses. The rules are much more suited to the offensive players these days and Lebron gets pretty favourable calls most of the time.

MJ had to go up against BRUTAL all time defenses in the Piston, Knicks & Celtics and collectively torched them all at one time or another. Any LBJ flopping GIFS aside, no way he could have done that to those defenses.

[entropy35]

He is right.

But MJ will be regarded as better because of career accomplishments.

[Harison]

Jordan is still fresh in the memory of the NBA (and will be for a while, probably). What Lebron has done this past year and a half is proved (IMO and in the opinions of many others) that he's the best player since Jordan. It's quite natural to compare him to Jordan, at this point.

I dont agree, Shaq obviously was better than LBJ, and I would take Duncan and probably KG over him too.



At least we've moved on from the "next Jordan" phase and are instead comparing players to him in a more subtle way, in which we celebrate the differences between the two and don't try to fit every young up-and-comer into the Jordan mold.

Not happening either, rarely if anyone is "celebrating the differences". Fans are comparing players to see which one is better (or to push their agenda).



Oh, and if Harden (or even Kyrie) is ever compared to Jordan to a similar degree as Lebron and Kobe have been, I would be shocked.

Its never ending cycle, nothing to be shocked about. Which particular younger star doesnt matter in this context, their overrating in comparison to MJ or other fading in history superstars always happens.

[DCL]

lebron is having a hot month. actually, he has been pretty insane all year.

but some people have amnesia if they forgot how prime jordan was even more insane.

if lebron is playing on another planet, jordan was playing in another galaxy.

[Magic 32]

What are his blemishes? Failing in the finals? Better than failing earlier.

Do you also give points for that when you're discussing Kobe's career (2004, 2008)?

[Money 23]

What are his blemishes? Failing in the finals? Better than failing earlier.
Your Miami Heat homerism blurs your sensibilities.

Are you seriously insinuating LeBron's 2011 performance wasn't atrocious, and an awful skid mark on his resume?

As was the 2010 playoffs, to a slightly lesser extent.

[Dragonyeuw]

More versatile defensively? Yes...Lebron can guard positions 1-5 depending on the player and the situation( meaning he can't guard every single player at every position, but he can guard SOME of the players at every position, either over the course of the game, or a specific stretch). I don't think he's as prolific a man to man defender as prime Jordan because Jordan was much better laterally and better reactionary instincts. Lebron's advantage is his versatility.

Offensively, his main advantage is in passing and he's better as a facilitator. Scoring-wise, he's not even close to Jordan in terms of scoring arsenal so there needs to be a very clear distinction between better offensive player and better scorer.

[Pushxx]

LeBron is around #12 all-time. Yes, he's having a spectacular regular season, but it's 49 games out of 82 and it's...the regular season.

Of course, in a year or two of playoff success he can enter at least top 10, but let's at least not call the guy better than Jordan...how soon people forget.

Time murders legacy. I mean...Russell, one of the best sports players in the history of the world, is even becoming forgotten with this generation. Did people here even watch Jordan?

[Nash]

He's LJ, not MJ.

[Ancient Legend]

I hope all of this praise doesn't get to Bron's ego and distracts him. Now everyone expects him to win multiple rings regardless of the circumstances (injuries, etc).

Bron is playing at an incredibe level, but can he sustain it like MJ did for 8 more years (till the age of 35?) That's what made MJ the GOAT.

[Rysio]

these comparisons happen every year with lebrick till he fails in the playoffs like he 99% of the time does. dont expect anything different this year. lechoke gon lechoke

[Dragonyeuw]

these comparisons happen every year with lebrick till he fails in the playoffs like he 99% of the time does. dont expect anything different this year. lechoke gon lechoke

This guy has never failed to get any of his teams to at least the second round, multiple conference finals, 3 finals and a ring. Yet he's failed 99% of the time? There's two occasions, in 10 years, where you can specifically say Lebron literally choked: 2010 game 5 vs Boston, 2011 Finals vs Mavs. I don't even count the 2007 Finals because even though he was subpar, the guy was 22, still raw and developing, and faced a much better team in the Spurs.

[Pacers4ever]

More versatile defensively? Yes...Lebron can guard positions 1-5 depending on the player and the situation( meaning he can't guard every single player at every position, but he can guard SOME of the players at every position, either over the course of the game, or a specific stretch). I don't think he's as prolific a man to man defender as prime Jordan because Jordan was much better laterally and better reactionary instincts. Lebron's advantage is his versatility.

Offensively, his main advantage is in passing and he's better as a facilitator. Scoring-wise, he's not even close to Jordan in terms of scoring arsenal so there needs to be a very clear distinction between better offensive player and better scorer.
Scoring Asenal does not lead to be a better scorer although MJ is the better scorer it's not by much in terms of productivity which is what most matter, I could care less if MJ can do fansy eye candy jumpers/layups and lebron des his dull bull rush to the basket as long as they're SCORING that's all that matters.

[Knoe Itawl]

The bottom line is that it's just too early to say. If Lebron goes on to win another 3 chips or so, with Finals MVPs, a few more regular season MVPs, and does so in a dominating fashion, then he deserves being talked about in the realm of Jordan. However, all those things are so far from happening, and so many things can happen to derail it that it's really pointless to be talking about it now. People always want to jump the gun on things. Lebron is playing phenomenally right now, but it has to be SUSTAINED for many more years to come for any conversations about being on Jordan's level to be viable.

[jlip]

I keep saying this, whether one agrees with Van Gundy or not, it's important to understand that when basketball personalities, especially coaches, compare players they are often not talking about career achievements, accolades, or resume's. They are judging according to what they perceive as on- the- court abilities completely devoid of the career accomplishments. To them, there is little difference in abilities between a player with 2 MVPs and one with 4 or a player with 5 rings and a player with 3. At that point, the comparison is extremely subjective and basically contingent on the evaluator's preferences in players.

[Dragonyeuw]

Scoring Asenal does not lead to be a better scorer although MJ is the better scorer it's not by much in terms of productivity which is what most matter, I could care less if MJ can do fansy eye candy jumpers/layups and lebron des his dull bull rush to the basket as long as they're SCORING that's all that matters.

Show me where I said it does? Jordan was putting higher scoring numbers than Lebron, on 50%+ shooting and 80%+ free throw shooting for the first 9 years of his career; it wasn't until his second retirement that his scoring average dipped under 30 which Lebron has only hit twice in his career. And when I talk about scoring arsenal, I'm not talking about fancy layups. I'm talking about a midrange jumper stuck on semi-automatic, footwork, a wide array of post moves, long range shooting ability, ability to drive equally well with either hand and not simply relying on bullrushing to the rim as you say. 30 year old MJ had ALL of those attributes.

And I would contend that having a vast scoring arsenal does indeed matter when it comes to sustained productivity. Lebron's not going to be scoring 27-30 ppg on 50% at 35 when he's no longer athletically superior to everyone else unless he makes the kind of changes that Jordan and Kobe made to their offensive games.

[guy]

What are his blemishes? Failing in the finals? Better than failing earlier.

It is better then failing earlier. QUITTING in the Finals or at anytime isn't better though.

[tontoz]

Lebron needs to show out in the playoffs for a few years before he can surpass Jordan. Piling up stats in the regular season isn't going to get it done.

[Michael_Wilbon]

SVG says things that are not true.

[Just2McFly]

the way people here protect mj is silly

[Kurosawa0]

You can argue that right now he's playing at Jordan's level, but all-time? No, not yet and probably not ever.

[indiefan24]

The bottom line is that it's just too early to say. If Lebron goes on to win another 3 chips or so, with Finals MVPs, a few more regular season MVPs, and does so in a dominating fashion, then he deserves being talked about in the realm of Jordan. However, all those things are so far from happening, and so many things can happen to derail it that it's really pointless to be talking about it now. People always want to jump the gun on things. Lebron is playing phenomenally right now, but it has to be SUSTAINED for many more years to come for any conversations about being on Jordan's level to be viable.

Put LeBron in Jordan's watered down era and he would exceed/sustain MJ's numbers.

[jstern]

:wtf:

What does that have to do with anything?

Bill Russell is 21-0 in elimination games and has 11 championships. Do we say "oh, MJ can't even be in the conversation because he's lost in elimination games and has 5 less championships"?

Magic Johnson lost 4 finals. Do we say he can never be in the conversation with Tim Duncan?
I think that he meant that LeBron just had a lot of really bad chocking type series on the biggest stage. I always thought that for those reasons he couldn't equal Jordan because it made LeBron seem to human unlike Jordan, but if LeBron keeps this up, he can totally erase that.

[Sarcastic]

What made Jordan so good was that once he finally won in 1991, he then dominated his competition by winning every single championship in which he played for a full season. If Lebron goes on a run similar to that, then he will be in the conversation.


Using things like total MVPs won, or any other awards does not contain proper context. Jordan was going up against prime Bird and Magic for some of those MVPs. Lebron won one of his when the second best player was 21 year old Durant. Not to knock 21 year old Durant, but he would have no chance of winning vs prime Magic and Bird as well.

[upside24]

When Kobe was in his scoring tear dropping 50s left and right and then the 81 point game, a lot of people in the basketball world were saying he was better than Jordan. His range and handle were pointed out as superior to Jordan's yet not many people now who are in the business would say that Kobe was ever better than prime Jordan.

We are seeing the same thing now with LeBron. He is having an amazing season but a six game stretch in the regular season shouldn't make him better than Jordan.

People want LeBron to be better than Jordan because they are tired of Jordan being the best ever. They want someone new to be the greatest. People are so quick to forget how MJ owned the league and routinely destroyed opposing teams not only in the regular season but in the playoffs.

LeBron is not better than Jordan, but he could become the greatest if he dominates the league for the next couple years.

[Pacers4ever]

Show me where I said it does? Jordan was putting higher scoring numbers than Lebron, on 50%+ shooting and 80%+ free throw shooting for the first 9 years of his career; it wasn't until his second retirement that his scoring average dipped under 30 which Lebron has only hit twice in his career. And when I talk about scoring arsenal, I'm not talking about fancy layups. I'm talking about a midrange jumper stuck on semi-automatic, footwork, a wide array of post moves, long range shooting ability, ability to drive equally well with either hand and not simply relying on bullrushing to the rim as you say. 30 year old MJ had ALL of those attributes.

And I would contend that having a vast scoring arsenal does indeed matter when it comes to sustained productivity. Lebron's not going to be scoring 27-30 ppg on 50% at 35 when he's no longer athletically superior to everyone else unless he makes the kind of changes that Jordan and Kobe made to their offensive games.
First of all lebron does drive equally well/finish with both hands as he doesn't have a off/main hand and lebron is still 28 he has enough time to get close to what jordan has. Unless you've been living under a rock this season, his shooting has improved greatly to the extent he's a better 3 point shooter than MJ and has been using the Post A LOT and it has been very effective.(in fact that's where most of his points come from in this 6 game stretch, not isos/transistion ect...Basically he's a much better player than his cavs days with his overall better shooting and post game. Of course scoring isn't the only thing that lebron has nor does he have to better than MJ in that category to be better than him. (not that he is right now)

[FKAri]

This is objectively untrue. I think Lebron's a better player than Magic and Bird (in an absolute sense but that's a poor way of comparing players across eras anyways). He's not better than MJ. I'm not even convinced he's better than peak Kobe (it's too close to call I feel but I think this is an argument worth having).

I was one of the few people defending Lebron after the 2011 finals and one of the few people telling everyone to calm down after he won his ring; simply because the swing in people's opinion of him shifted so violently. Ofcourse he played better and was better in 2012 but people made it sound like all of a sudden his career should be looked at in a different light, in both those instances.

[Pointguard]

I keep saying this, whether one agrees with Van Gundy or not, it's important to understand that when basketball personalities, especially coaches, compare players they are often not talking about career achievements, accolades, or resume's. They are judging according to what they perceive as on- the- court abilities completely devoid of the career accomplishments. To them, there is little difference in abilities between a player with 2 MVPs and one with 4 or a player with 5 rings and a player with 3. At that point, the comparison is extremely subjective and basically contingent on the evaluator's preferences in players.
This.

It would be smart for all active coaches to say Lebron is better because they would love to have him. That's their interest and its the smartest agenda. Jordan can't play anymore so he's useless to praise.

The second thing is Lebron can address more of a coaches hit list. His strengths and versatility are the most practical of all players who ever played the game. Lebron could bump up to a 32ppg scorer, or a 10 assist, or 11 rebound guy. He can work a mismatch at every position with ease on offense. And he even stopped the most prolific center (DH) and the most skilled center (Al Jefferson) and quickest PG with the most moves.

[Legends66NBA7]

the way people here protect mj is silly

Don't you think that can be said for any player that's overprotected here, though ?

[SilkkTheShocker]

SVG is right. LeBron is just a better player.

[rmt]

Lebron has to dominate for a LONG, LONG time before he can be compared to MJ.

[Is He Ill]

Lebron has to dominate for a LONG, LONG time before he can be compared to MJ.

This. I wonder how good he will still be once his athleticism starts diminishing. This is his peak, wait until he's 31 or 32. He's the most physically gifted player ever and one of the all time greats, but to say he's better than Jordan is asinine at this point. He still has a long way to go.

[Mr Exlax]

This. I wonder how good he will still be once his athleticism starts diminishing. This is his peak, wait until he's 31 or 32. He's the most physically gifted player ever and one of the all time greats, but to say he's better than Jordan is asinine at this point. He still has a long way to go.


So now are we comparing career accomplishments or are we talking about overall skill? SVG is saying LeBron is a better player than MJ not LeBron has a better career than MJ.

[Blue&Orange]

SVG is a fat D'Antoni, he is clueless and a bitch just like Pringles. In what skills are Lebron better? I fail to see one.

[tontoz]

Put LeBron in Jordan's watered down era and he would exceed/sustain MJ's numbers.


Yeah guys like Hakeem, DRob, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Dikembe can't protect the paint like Brook Lopez, Al Horford and Dwight.

:facepalm

[Dragonyeuw]

First of all lebron does drive equally well/finish with both hands as he doesn't have a off/main hand and lebron is still 28 he has enough time to get close to what jordan has. Unless you've been living under a rock this season, his shooting has improved greatly to the extent he's a better 3 point shooter than MJ and has been using the Post A LOT and it has been very effective.(in fact that's where most of his points come from in this 6 game stretch, not isos/transistion ect...Basically he's a much better player than his cavs days with his overall better shooting and post game. Of course scoring isn't the only thing that lebron has nor does he have to better than MJ in that category to be better than him. (not that he is right now)

-First of all I never said he doesn't drive as well( though Jordan was definitely more nimble and able to change directions better than Lebron does). I was simply saying that Jordan at his apex had everything come together: shooting, driving, post-game, etc pretty much all at once. That's why the best overall perimeter player I've seen is Jordan from 1990-1993. Everything was coming together for him at that point in terms of skill, athleticism, and IQ.

But to add to that, Jordan has more of a scorer's mentality than Lebron does. Lebron is much more of an offensive facilitator along the lines of Grant Hill/Penny Hardaway/Scottie Pippen but with more scoring and explosiveness. Jordan and Kobe are pretty much the same player in terms of scoring mentality-first, with the ability to be an offensive facilitator but they are scorers first and foremost, and their more advanced arsenals reflect this.

-I never said Lebron will never have the offensive arsenal. But regardless of his age, he's also been in the league 10 years. At what point do you think he'll develop as varied an offensive repertoire as Jordan and Kobe? Jordan at 28 was more skilled offensively, or after 10 years in the league he was more skillled offensively. Whatever metric you want to use, age or experience, he doesn't have the overall scoring skills of Jordan/Kobe. Whether he ever reaches that is another discussion based on speculation and I'll leave you to have that one on your own.

- He's not nearly as good a post player, I don't care how much time he spends down there. While Lebron is more comfortable down there, you can clearly see operating out of the post doesn't come natural to him like the guy he learned from, Hakeem, and not as natural as Jordan and Kobe. He doesn't have either the touch or footwork to be a prolific post scorer.......yet.

-Better 3point shooter? Perhaps. Better overall shooter? Nope. Jordan's midrange game was much better than any aspect of Lebron's shooting, this is why he was still putting up 30 at 33-35 when his athleticism declined.

[raid09]

What are his blemishes? Failing in the finals? Better than failing earlier.

It's so stupid.

W-L record in the Finals, and even championships overall are a fine way to look at a player's legacy, but using it to define his on-court prowess is comical and ridiculous.

(Not saying that LeBron is than Jordan was, although I think it's closer than a lot of people here probably will admit)

[Kingwillball]

Lebron now is better than Kobe ever was because Kobe just never was as versatile or could dominate a game in so many ways like Lebron let alone be nearly as efficient.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron now is better than Kobe ever was because Kobe just never was as versatile or could dominate a game in so many ways like Lebron let alone be nearly as efficient.


This would explain Kobe's unsuccessful basketball career

[AceManIII]

Let's see what is said in a year or two from now

But hey, people want to believe...nothing wrong with that :cheers:

[TheMan]

What made Jordan so good was that once he finally won in 1991, he then dominated his competition by winning every single championship in which he played for a full season. If Lebron goes on a run similar to that, then he will be in the conversation.


Using things like total MVPs won, or any other awards does not contain proper context. Jordan was going up against prime Bird and Magic for some of those MVPs. Lebron won one of his when the second best player was 21 year old Durant. Not to knock 21 year old Durant, but he would have no chance of winning vs prime Magic and Bird as well.
This

Jordan was competing for MVPs against 2 of easily top 5 GOAT players in NBA history, LBJ's competition is nowhere near that level.

How easily people forget...LBJ is killing it right now but Jordan did it year after year. LBJ needs to keep this level for the next 5-6 years and rack up NBA titles and Finals MVPs before we start comparing. Some people just can't wait to declare the new guy the next GOAT.

Can LBJ do it? He certainly has the tools but he needs to dominate like MJ did. One NBA title won't cut it.

Time will tell.

[2010splash]

Nobody would be making a big fuss out of this is you replaced "LeBron" with "Kareem", "Bird,", "Magic", "Russell" etc. And yet LeBron is much better than Kareem, Bird, Magic or Russell ever were. Hypocrisy much?

Here's the plain truth - Jordan and LeBron are the two most individually dominant players this league has ever seen - both from a statistical standpoint and from using the "eye test."

[Blue&Orange]

Yeah guys like Hakeem, DRob, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Dikembe can't protect the paint like Brook Lopez, Al Horford and Dwight.

:facepalm
Let me expand on this thought, the league now is a perimeter player league, the ony SF that shoots less from the perimeter than Lebron is Landry Fields, but somehow Lebron would dominate even more in a era that had more big men and more quality big men... i wonder how? Shooting jumpers? Lebrick would dominate shooting jumpers? :lol

Off course Lebron Stans confuse domination with Skills, i guess Shaq had more Skill than Jordan, looking how Shaq dominated. :lol

Lebron stans have their panties all wet, because Lebron broke Adrian Dantley record, i would love to see Lebron do what Kobe did, that 5\6 game stretch scoring more than 50 points on almost 60%, i would love to see that cherry picker, statpadder even try. Said that are people saying Kobe in his prime couldn't score 30 points > 60% for a 6 game stretch if he cherry picked? :roll: Right :rolleyes:


Let us see Lebron play in the Finals without constantly choking before anointing him as anything but the GOAT role player that he is.

[chazzy]

And yet LeBron is much better than Kareem, Bird, Magic or Russell ever were.
You can't even say MJ is MUCH better than those guys, let alone Lebron

[Sarcastic]

Nobody would be making a big fuss out of this is you replaced "LeBron" with "Kareem", "Bird,", "Magic", "Russell" etc. And yet LeBron is much better than Kareem, Bird, Magic or Russell ever were. Hypocrisy much?

Here's the plain truth - Jordan and LeBron are the two most individually dominant players this league has ever seen - both from a statistical standpoint and from using the "eye test."


Eye test? :roll: :roll: :roll:

You've never seen the guys you are mentioning play. How can you use the "eye test" if you have never seen the guys play.

[gengiskhan]

32.5 / 8 / 8 with 3 SPG for 81 games !

-"Scoring champ" is also a "Steals Champ" the same year.

LBJ has long way to go to match up to GOAT.

[tmacattack33]

I hate these type of comparisons but LBJ needs to keep up this type of play for another couple years and with a couple more championships to even be in that conversation.

That's legacy talk.

In terms of who was the better basketball player in their peaks, Lebron has to keep up this level of play for the rest of the year and playoffs and there's a conversation.

He already had a great year last year to prove that this isn't just a small sample size thing. A year like last year plus a year like this year will be put his peak in the top 5 of all time, and maybe top 3.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

What he said.

We are seeing a new wave now, previously it was Kobe vs Jordan, now Lebron vs Jordan, soon Harden or Kyrie vs Jordan :facepalm People never learn.
lol at people never learning and you needing to reach HARD using MJ/Kyrie as a future example.

[NumberSix]

32.5 / 8 / 8 with 3 SPG for 81 games !

-"Scoring champ" is also a "Steals Champ" the same year.

LBJ has long way to go to match up to GOAT.
Why would he have to match that? What makes MJ's style of play the automatic prerequisite? Wilt Chamberlain did plenty of things MJ never came close to doing. Nobody says MJ needs to match Wilt's 72% FG% season or his 55 rebound game. Nobody ever said MJ has to match Wilt's rebound champ or assist champ seasons to be in the conversation.

There's many ways to play the game. LeBron doesn't need to match MJ exact accomplishments to be in the same conversation. Believe it or not, LeBron has done some things that even MJ never did.

[Calabis]

Yes, because you have to match achievements to be a better player. That's why Barkley will never be as good as Chauncy Billups. :hammerhead:

Talent wise I don't think there isn't much of a difference, but the results on the court, on the big stage have been. But let's let his career ride out. Too many of these people live in the now...they forget how dominant Jordan really was at times.

Also SVG is a moron

Van Gundy noted that some of the greatest teams in recent NBA history weren’t exactly loaded with superstars. He first listed the Detroit Pistons of a few years ago – a team that went to six straight Eastern Conference finals and won one championship.

“Was there even one Hall of Famer on that team?” Van Gundy asked rhetorically. “Debatable.”

Then he went to Michael Jordan’s dynastic Bulls and their six championships. Van Gundy speculated that perhaps Jordan was the only superstar on that team.

“I have always wondered, as good as Scottie Pippen was, would he have been considered a star if he hadn’t played with Jordan and had to carry a team on his own,” Van Gundy explained. “We’ll never know, but my point is that sometimes we make the determination after the fact. In other words, after Chicago won championships, we branded Pippen a star.”

:facepalm

[Just2McFly]

Don't you think that can be said for any player that's overprotected here, though ?

Pro-Jordan people take it to another level but I do think that certain Kobe and Lebron stans are just as bad. The MJ thing permeates the general fabric of ISH just a tad bit more since that it's a little less extreme.

[NumberSix]

[QUOTE=Calabis]Talent wise I don't think there isn't much of a difference, but the results on the court, on the big stage have been. But let's let his career ride out. Too many of these people live in the now...they forget how dominant Jordan really was at times.

Also SVG is a moron

[B]Van Gundy noted that some of the greatest teams in recent NBA history weren

[gengiskhan]

And these things are wrong? :confusedshrug:

Scottie isnt exactly Sir Charles (1 MVP + 1 runner-up MVP in 1990) btw.

I also wonder if Pippen would've been rated so highly if it wasnt for MJ.

I mean just look at Pippen's HOUSTON & PORTLAND career. He is just glorified player when portland specifically paid 60+ million contract for Pip's 6 NBA finals experience & overall leadership.

Pippen let portalnd down just like he let Houston down. As much as NBA revisionist want to overrate pippen, he could'nt even make it to NBA finals in stacked team (portland & houston).

At some point. SVG is right about Pippen.