Lebron in the 1990's

[Pointguard]

What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

[Duncan21formvp]

Less rebounds for him for sure and worse FG% with the amount of defensive guys in the league that protected the paint.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRzk_duhj4

Remember when Lebron went crying to the media when the Wizards played him physical? 'Nuff said! :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

People focus on offense but imagine a league where he's allowed to play defense more physically. What would you do against him?

[Dave3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGRzk_duhj4

Remember when Lebron went crying to the media when the Wizards played him physical? 'Nuff said! :oldlol:
And still averaged 30 ppg for the series? They tried to go 90's Pistons on him instead of playing straight up defense and it didn't work. Don't mix up complaining with lack of effectiveness.

[Legends66NBA7]

And still averaged 30 ppg for the series? They tried to go 90's Pistons on him instead of playing straight up defense and it didn't work. Don't mix up complaining with lack of effectiveness.

That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.

[Dave3]

That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.
Yeah which is why I said "tried" - they attempted to hack/hit to emulate the Pistons defense, they just lacked the actual defensive ability of the Pistons teams. My point was though that physicality has never been something to deter LeBron's offensive game. He thrives in that type of situation.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah which is why I said "tried" - they attempted to hack/hit to emulate the Pistons defense, they just lacked the actual defensive ability of the Pistons teams. My point was though that physicality has never been something to deter LeBron's offensive game. He thrives in that type of situation.

I know. Just looking at where both teams ranked in their defensive years and the defensive players on each respective team, it should be pretty obvious.

James would be a different player in the 90's, IMO. Kinda of a hybrid of Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, which would still be pretty potent.

[Dave3]

I know. Just looking at where both teams ranked in their defensive years and the defensive players on each respective team, it should be pretty obvious.

James would be a different player in the 90's, IMO. Kinda of a hybrid of Karl Malone and Charles Barkley, which would still be pretty potent.
Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.

[OldSchoolBBall]

What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

I want to get one thing out of the way: hand checking works on everyone. It's called physics.

Anyway, Lebron would still be dominant, but he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is today, especially efficiency-wise (he could certainly average 27/8/6 or whatever on a good team).

[imnew09]

Scottie will own him.

[andgar923]

What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

Less rebounds, less assists, less points, lower efficiency.

No hand checking wouldn't work to his advantage. It may have worked on Chuck, but Chuck was a post player that also used his weight and lower base as an advantage. Chuck was also ferocious and much tougher. Lebron just now is starting to scratch the surface on how to play the post. One huge disadvantage he'd have is the paint being far more congested and players much tougher with rules that favored the defense when compared to today's game. He won't be able to just run through the middle like he does today, if he did it would be contested and met with a hard foul.

Coaches wouldn't allow him to dominate the ball as much, and his off the ball game is mediocre.

Not to say he wouldn't get his from time to time, but his opportunities and his efficiency would take a noticeable dip. Still an all star, but I don't think he'd be the player we know him as today.

Bird had a great shot which allowed him to play at a very elite level, along with that was his legendary toughness. Bron doesn't have a great shot, he isn't known to be legendary in the tough department either. Magic a point forward, made quick passes and more importantly dribbled with his back turned which made it harder on the defense. Bron would be awesome on the open court no question about that. I guess it'll depend on the team he plays with. Put him on the Warriors a fast break team and he excels. But put him on a more post oriented team, and he won't be the same Bron we know of today.

[pauk]

Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

[Legends66NBA7]

Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.

The 90's had better interior defense, clearly. You could camp in the paint because the rules allowed, plus they had better defensive centers too. You can say perimeter defense works better too, because it wears down the smaller opponents.

I'm not so sure about a foul today would be a foul back then, with reference of the touch fouls like Durant, Wade, etc.. get with their acting, rip through moves, and all. I don't think it would be called as much back then, it would have to be a harder foul.

James would be a back to the basket player and playing with big men. More or less, he'd still be an all-time great.

[Dragonyeuw]

What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

Hand checking in the post and hand checking out on the perimeter are two very different things. Malone and Barkley were both *much* better post players, Malone was more of a mid-range fade-away kind of post player( especially as he aged) while Barkley was more explosive around the basket with an assortment of moves under the rim. Hand checking on the perimeter meant the defender is able to pretty much lay his hand on your hip and *guide* you to where he wanted you to go, so it took someone with exceptional driving ability to free themselves from being consistently hand-checked over the course of a game.

[andgar923]

Yeah, people always tend to confuse hard fouls in the 90's with better defense. They weren't allowed to just shove guys without foul calls or anything. Fouls back then were called just like they are now. Maybe a flagrant today would've been just a hard foul then, but a foul today would still have been a foul then. I don't think LeBron would have been any worse at all back then. If anything he would have had a slightly more athletic advantage in his younger years.

No. fouls today wouldn't have been called the same way.

There are dozens upon dozens of fouls that are called today that wouldn't have been called back then. And it's mostly the tick tack kind that hurt you the most.

But the biggest difference is how a team and player plays due to the rules. Example..

let's say I'm guarding you in today's game. I put my hand check you slightly as you drive, I get a foul called. Next possession, you drive and a man rotates touching you, foul called. That already puts the defense in a tough situation to guard, now you receive less resistance to getting anywhere. Being cautious, I guard you again in the next possession, tick tack touch foul is called on me. Now I can't touch you so my defense on you is extremely handicapped. This happens every game to just about every player.

Let's take this back to the past eras.

Those same possessions won't get called fouls. So that gives me as a defender a bit more freedom to be aggressive. It gives my team the opportunity to play you tougher for extra possessions. These add up during the course of a game, naturally not everything will be allowed, but the rules are already in the defense favor. Now you combine that with the other plays that don't usually get called such as screens, elbows (while in the paint) etc.etc. it wears down the offensive player and gives the defense more freedom.

[andgar923]

Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

He's just learning to post.
He can't move without the ball at all.
His shot has improved, but with more resistance it will take a dip.
The lane will be far more clogged, thus eliminating many of his drives down the lane.
He'd also get fouled more without him getting the calls, which will eliminate some of the fts he gets and give the defense freedom to be more physical.

All of this adds up during the course of a game, the course of a season, the course of a career.

[Dbrog]

He would still be dominant. Come on, what is this? Getting hit doesn't do anything to him and really never has since he's so big. You really think he'd be worse than Barkley? I doubt that. Remember, zone defenses weren't allowed back then which is how the Spurs completely shut young-lebron down. I'm guessing he would still be top 2 or 3 in the league behind Jordan and Prime Chuck/Shaq/Hakeem depending on the year.

[Soundwave]

He'd be better than Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, (young) Kobe, etc. but Jordan and Shaq would still be better players.

It would be a lot more physical with better centers back then too.

He'd still be a top player obviously. Basketball is still basketball it's not like things have changed *that* much.

I think the game changed *a lot* in the 1970s, was refined in the 80s, and sort of leveled off in the 90s.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Come on now.... he would be just fine in the 90s, guaranteed not worse than today...

His efficiency would certainly be worse. He could, however, put up 27-30/7-9 reb/5-7 ast on any team. He would be similarly dominant, but not AS dominant.

[Dbrog]

He's just learning to post.
He can't move without the ball at all.
His shot has improved, but with more resistance it will take a dip.
The lane will be far more clogged, thus eliminating many of his drives down the lane.
He'd also get fouled more without him getting the calls, which will eliminate some of the fts he gets and give the defense freedom to be more physical.

All of this adds up during the course of a game, the course of a season, the course of a career.

Just now learning the post because he came into the league when it was already a slashing league rather than post.

He would probably learn how to move without the ball since he wouldn't be brought up in a league consisting primarily of ISOs and where ball movement was a bigger part of the culture. I actually think he would've been a more complete player if he came in the league in the 90s cause he woulda started with a more fundamental base rather than 1 on 5 offense on the Cavs.

His shot has improved but was never why he was dominant anyway.

The lane is much more clogged now since zones are legal.

MJ still got freethrows...so would Lebron.

[andgar923]

He'd be better than Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, (young) Kobe, etc. but Jordan and Shaq would still be better players.

It would be a lot more physical with better centers back then too.

He'd still be a top player obviously. Basketball is still basketball it's not like things have changed *that* much.

I think the game changed *a lot* in the 1970s, was refined in the 80s, and sort of leveled off in the 90s.

It has changed enough to make a difference.

The game is more perimeter oriented due to the rule changes that encourage perimeter scoring and punish the defense.

There's also less ball movement today with far more one on one, which helps perimeter players statistically. If you saw the clip that was posted in which MJ got a triple double in 21 minutes, you'd see how he didn't dominate the ball like Bron and most of today's players do today. That was how the game was played back then, can you imagine Bron having the same stats if he didn't have it in his hands as often? they'd probably take a slight dip.

The lane being clogged was a huge deterrent for offensive players back then.

So yeah, the game has changed enough to make a difference when you combine all of this plus more factors that I may have missed.

[senelcoolidge]

Lebron would have developed a post game much sooner. His efficiency would be lower. I agree some people here think that they didn't call fouls or they allowed guys to just fight back in the 90's. Not true. It was more physical, but it was not some stupid playground garbage. Lebron is a big guy, but he's really not that physical, he tries to avoid contact. He would still be very good, but would not stand out like he does today.

[2010splash]

Less rebounds for him for sure and worse FG% with the amount of defensive guys in the league that protected the paint.
More like 31/8/8 on 56-57 FG%, 42 3-pt%, 2 steals per game.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Coaches wouldn't allow him to dominate the ball as much, and his off the ball game is mediocre.

This is something I agree with and the biggest difference I believe, though I agree about the paint being more clogged. I also don't think he'd have attempted anywhere five threes like he was in Cleveland, probably always closer to the amount he's been shooting in Miami.

I don't know if he'd be more or less dominant, but it's obvious he'd still be among the game's best players, and at certain points, more later in the decade, he'd probably be the best in the game, imo.

[chazzy]

I think the biggest difference would be the presence of a rim protector more often, because of the lack of def 3 sec rule and the league having more of them.

[TheMan]

That Wizards team's physical defense was nothing compared to the Bad Boy Pistons.
This

The Wizards had no one that was in Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman and Salley level of nastiness, not even close...

[Mr. Jabbar]

poor mans andray blatche

[jlip]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.

[andgar923]

Hmm

[ShaqAttack3234]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

He wouldn't, and he's obviously the vastly superior passer, ball-handler and defender. Although I wouldn't say Nique's age is relevant because he was a better player than ever in the early 90's, especially '93. Smarter and more under control with more range on his jumper.

I see Lebron scoring anywhere from 25-30 depending on his team, anywhere from 6-8 boards(more size in the paint and less missed shots might bring his rebounds down slightly) and 6 or so assists if he was scoring close to 30, not because he wasn't capable of more, but because I'm not sure he'd be as ball-dominant. Though that's on a good team, and we have to consider the faster pace, and Lebron has always been unstoppable in transition. He'd get his easy baskets, and make some great passes that didn't rely on him being ball-dominant.

So 27-28 ppg with 7-8 rpg and 7-8 apg isn't far-fetched, imo. It all depends on the team.



I think his game would be a mixture of Clyde and Nique. Somewhere along those two.

He's a better ball-handler than both, and a lot stronger/heavier, plus he's easily the best defender of the 3. A much better passer than Nique too, and still a better passer than Clyde, though the gap isn't as large because Drexler was a great passer.

[Dbrog]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.

:applause:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Lol at the people acting like Lebron wouldn't get calls. He'd actually get more. Also what exactly is stopping Lebron from straight up dunking on the C whos standing in the key? Lebron would yam on any wannabe big man trying to anchor

[andgar923]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.

Nique played in the paint, Bron not so much

[ShaqAttack3234]

[QUOTE=andgar923]Nique played in the paint, Bron not so much

[Nash]

The 90's had shitty wings. He would be just fine.

[andgar923]

He's a better ball-handler than both, and a lot stronger/heavier, plus he's easily the best defender of the 3. A much better passer than Nique too, and still a better passer than Clyde, though the gap isn't as large because Drexler was a great passer.

I agree, but you misunderstood what I meant.

I mentioned he'd be a mixture due to their styles.

If you watch Clyde and Bron they have a similar way in which they play. They both sorta put their head down and drive the same, they both have similar face up game, not very diverse might I add. The Nique comparison is due to their size and some of their athleticism, and form (shooting form, dribbling, some moves etc.) If you watch them move, it can be eerily similar in the way they move, jump, attack. Even their spin moves are very similar.

[Sarcastic]

Dominique is probably the most underrated player on this forum.

[jlip]

[QUOTE=andgar923]Nique played in the paint, Bron not so much

[Indian guy]

For the first half of the 90's, at least, he would be a superior player statistically. Defenses were weaker and the game was a little faster. Overall though, the game has barely changed since. LeBron would still kick just as much ass, if not more so, given that the wing talent was weaker back then.

[andgar923]

Nique shot a lot of jumpers too. He was crafty with his post game and floaters, but Lebron has been posting up more and looks improved in the post, and he attacks the basket regularly. Why do you think he shoots such a high percentage?

Bron is just starting to get his mid range game and post up game to the level that Nique had since he was young dude. Nique's post game>>>> Bron's mid range game is also in Nique's favor.

Yes he started to expand his jumper later on, that edge goes to Bron. But that's why Nique was able to be more efficient and score as he did, cause he was closer to the basket, had better post game and mid than Bron.

[Dbrog]

I agree, but you misunderstood what I meant.

I mentioned he'd be a mixture due to their styles.

If you watch Clyde and Bron they have a similar way in which they play. They both sorta put their head down and drive the same, they both have similar face up game, not very diverse might I add. The Nique comparison is due to their size and some of their athleticism, and form (shooting form, dribbling, some moves etc.) If you watch them move, it can be eerily similar in the way they move, jump, attack. Even their spin moves are very similar.

And yet prime/peak Drex was better than Nique. Drex was a Jordan-lite...and Bron is better (and would be better back then too) than Drex ever was. I remember games where announcers would debate whether Drex was just as good as Jordan (which was silly...but still). Bron would be absolutely just as dominant if not more due to a watered down league.

[Kingwillball]

One thing people Forget is that players of the 90's are not as Big or strong as today physically. Artest a SF was as BIg as Barkley a PF..and Lebron has his way with Artest. Lebron would stand out even more if he was this big and explosive playing against skinny guys. I mean yesterday there was a ton aot Jordan highlights and back than Jordan was considered Big and strong for his position but seriously looked Skinny compared to some of todays players.

[2010splash]

Hmm….

I think his game would be a mixture of Clyde and Nique. Somewhere along those two.

Again as I stated, still an all star, but with reduced numbers and efficiency than today. Easier to guard than he is today.
Nique? Clyde? :roll: :roll:

This is the equivalent of saying Jordan would be a mixture of Harden/Ginobili, or Shaq would be a mixture of Dwight/Lopez if they played today. Still all-stars... but worse numbers/easier to guard. (neither of which is true obviously)

This topic is a joke. LeBron is unguardable, a genetic anomaly the likes of which the league has never seen. He is also a 42% 3-point shooter with a highly refined midrange and post game. He is an open court freight train and bolt of lightning at the same time.

Basically, he's the perfect player and cannot be stopped, contained, made worse etc. He would crap all over the 1990's.

[Djahjaga]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.

/Thread.

:applause:

[ShaqAttack3234]

One thing people Forget is that players of the 90's are not as Big or strong as today physically. Artest a SF was as BIg as Barkley a PF..and Lebron has his way with Artest. Lebron would stand out even more if he was this big and explosive playing against skinny guys. I mean yesterday there was a ton aot Jordan highlights and back than Jordan was considered Big and strong for his position but seriously looked Skinny compared to some of todays players.

I get your point, and think there is some validity to it, except Jordan from the at least '92 on wasn't skinny compared to just about any 2 guard. He didn't start lifting weights until either the '89-'90 season or '90-'91 season, and he was already strong, but there was a noticeable difference in Jordan's physique from '92 on. Kobe for the most part has been skinnier than Jordan with the exception of '03 and '05, and seems to naturally have a more difficult time carrying that weight which explains the knee problems which started after he bulked up to 220-225 for the 2002-2003 season. And why he had his best seasons when he lost 15 pounds for '06 and 20 pounds for '08. Even so, Kobe is a lot stronger than his size would suggest, and has no problem posting up any 2 guard, even a guy like Wade who is heavier. MJ was the same way pre-'91 or '92, but after that he looked big compared to other 2 guards then or now. Same with a guy like Drexler.

[Money 23]

One thing people Forget is that players of the 90's are not as Big or strong as today physically. Artest a SF was as BIg as Barkley a PF..and Lebron has his way with Artest. Lebron would stand out even more if he was this big and explosive playing against skinny guys. I mean yesterday there was a ton aot Jordan highlights and back than Jordan was considered Big and strong for his position but seriously looked Skinny compared to some of todays players.
:facepalm

Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

[ThickassGlasses]

:facepalm

Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

This is god awfully ignorant and reeks of an agenda.

Popcorn muscles? There is no such thing when you weigh 220+ pounds. If you weigh 220lbs and have visible muscles, such as LeBron does, they aren't just there for show. There is substance there, a lot of it actually.

Your lame functional strength argument works.. when comparing a bodybuilder to a basketball player, but not two basketball players. I'm not saying there isn't a few guys stronger than LeBron, but to say they have a higher functional strength than a guy that is bigger than them that has similar skills is completely false.

In every single sport requiring any physical activity, every athlete is physically superior to what the same athletes were 20 years ago, and it's not even a mini-step, it's a large one. There is a reason why the NFL is making a ton of protective rules now and not 20 years ago, there is a reason MLB records are being broken daily, there is a reason that old school MMA legends try to make a return and get flattened.. Whether or not it's substance assisted or just due to superior knowledge and equipment/techniques known now, athletes now are just flat out superior. You have to deal with it.

[Round Mound]

Lesser FG% but Higher Amount of FTs. He Wouldn`t Score that Much Shooting Wise or Rebound that Much in the Paint cause The Style of Play Inside Was Much Tougher and Defense 1 on 1 Was More Free to Do What You Wan`t Defensively. His Passing Ability Would Shine More cause He`d Probably Play With Better Offensive Players in the Frontline Specially. Everyone New How To Shoot the Mid Range and Post Up. Handchecking Wouldn`t Bother Him That Much Cause of His Quickness, Agility, Strength and Power.

25 PPG (52% FG), 8.5 APG, 7.0 RPG, 2.0 SPG & 1.0 BPG

[atljonesbro]

LeBron would still be LeBron, lets not let nostalgia get in the way because it's 100% fact that anyone who thinks otherwise is.

Plus hes WAAAAAAAY more athletic than the players back then compared to today.

[Pointguard]

I want to get one thing out of the way: hand checking works on everyone. It's called physics.

Anyway, Lebron would still be dominant, but he wouldn't be putting up the numbers he is today, especially efficiency-wise (he could certainly average 27/8/6 or whatever on a good team).
If you ever tried it with a bigger player? To get any leverage you have to pivot your back leg for it to mean anything. The imbalance slows down your foot movement considerable. Karl Malone is waaaay slower than Lebron. Barkley always did it.

Wasn't the game more wide open then? Didn't they shoot better from the field?

[andgar923]

If you ever tried it with a bigger player? To get any leverage you have to pivot your back leg for it to mean anything. The imbalance slows down your foot movement considerable. Karl Malone is waaaay slower than Lebron. Barkley always did it.

Wasn't the game more wide open then? Didn't they shoot better from the field?

Handchecking won't stop a player 100% of the time. What hand checking does do is help you stay in front even if it's simply half a step. It can help you re-route the offensive player which can be big in a game situation. It allows the defense to help out, it can force the offensive player from driving to pulling up. it can also help the defensive player tremendously depending on the angle he's playing.

But more importantly, hand checking allows for less fouls.

If you allow hand checking today, there'd be less fouls being called. Less fouls being called allows the defense the ability to be more aggressive.

So NO a player won't get stopped every possession, but it helps a ton in many other ways. If you're a slower or weaker player it gives you some aid and basically a tool to allow you to be more effective defensively.

[Doctor Rivers]

What are your thoughts? Who guards him? Would he be better?

I do want to get one thing out of the way. Hand checking doesn't work on a bigger, stronger and faster player. In fact it works to their advantage. Malone and Barkley used it as leverage to spin toward the basket.

he would dominate

[Pointguard]

30-34 yr old Dominique Wilkins avg. 26-30ppg/ 6-9rpg from '90-'94. Please tell me why a prime Lebron would be any worse than that.

My generation is turning into our parents. They always told us stories of how every single thing they did was harder "back in the day." They had to "walk uphill in the snow with no shoes" to go everywhere. We are doing the same thing. Now we are acting like every star today would lose 5ppg, 2rpg, 1apg, and 3-5% points off their fg% because everything was "so tough" just 20 years ago. It's like all 82 games were played against the '89 Pistons or the '92 Knicks, or fouls weren't called if there wasn't blood when we know that's not true. We need to stop that.

There were good defensive teams and flat horrible and scrub teams defensively also. I remember complaining about superstars getting touch fouls called in their favor, and even remember other players complaining about the touch, questionable fouls that superstars were benefiting from.
Can't rep you again. The Knicks and Pistons had crazy grittines - they were a level above the rest and most teams were bad defensively.

In general, I didn't start getting close seats until the mid to late 90's so I can't really speak about the early 90's but my impression was the whole decade was incredibly slow. Tim Hardaway stood out but he wasn't first tier today. Chris Mullin, Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, Xavier McDaniel, Antoine Walker all of whom noticably moved slower than Odom were the top scoring SF. Dominique was a little bit faster but not really Rudy Gay's speed. SG Finley, Richmond, and Spreewell would be too slow for Lebron. These guys were all top ten scorers. Lebron would be noticeably faster than all the skilled players. Not as quick as Jordan but he surely looks faster. Shaq used to run down court and beat players down court. It was Orlando strategy.

The other categories for me are strength, defensive schemes, skilled players, other penetrators and convulted lanes.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:facepalm

Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

I think Dwight has been a pretty good example of popcorn muscles. He's very cut which makes people assume he's more overpowering on the court than he really is, especially since his lowerbody is relatively weak. Lebron on the otherhand is a whole different animal. Look at how he finishes with contact. He's big and strong, but not with a particularly impressive physique from a bodybuilding standpoint. But this is a guy who weighed 245 at 18 years old and didn't even look filled out.

[Kingwillball]

I get your point, and think there is some validity to it, except Jordan from the at least '92 on wasn't skinny compared to just about any 2 guard. He didn't start lifting weights until either the '89-'90 season or '90-'91 season, and he was already strong, but there was a noticeable difference in Jordan's physique from '92 on. Kobe for the most part has been skinnier than Jordan with the exception of '03 and '05, and seems to naturally have a more difficult time carrying that weight which explains the knee problems which started after he bulked up to 220-225 for the 2002-2003 season. And why he had his best seasons when he lost 15 pounds for '06 and 20 pounds for '08. Even so, Kobe is a lot stronger than his size would suggest, and has no problem posting up any 2 guard, even a guy like Wade who is heavier. MJ was the same way pre-'91 or '92, but after that he looked big compared to other 2 guards then or now. Same with a guy like Drexler.



Yeah More like 80's Jordan was skinny he filled out towards end of career and Drexler was my Favorite player back in the Day

[ThickassGlasses]

I think Dwight has been a pretty good example of popcorn muscles. He's very cut which makes people assume he's more overpowering on the court than he really is, especially since his lowerbody is relatively weak. Lebron on the otherhand is a whole different animal. Look at how he finishes with contact. He's big and strong, but not with a particularly impressive physique from a bodybuilding standpoint. But this is a guy who weighed 245 at 18 years old and didn't even look filled out.

Exactly, correcting for Dwight's frame and height, he is not in any way shape or form extremely muscular. He has a low body fat which makes him appear "ripped" but he is no where near thick or "big" muscular wise.

[Pointguard]

:facepalm

Applicable strength >>> Popcorn muscles

Strength in basketball doesn't just come from the size of one's physique. Your ignorance is alarming regarding this subject.

And no, the players of the 90's just 15 - 20 years ago aren't some regressed version of the modern athlete in terms of strength. This myth has to stop. Like humans super evolved athletically in two decades.

Anthony Mason, Charles Oakley, those guys just for example were bigger than LeBron. Mason might've even been quicker than LeBron, too.

The size and strength of players from the 90's are comparable to today. I'd actually suggest players of the 90's were sleeker because they required more stamina. The game was a little bit faster and more free flowing than it is today. Most likely due to better ball movement.

Be respectful. He didn't come at you like that.

Anthony Mason wasn't fast enough to get around guards. Lebron gets around everybody. The poster didn't say everybody evolved, Lebron is very different. His weight is evenly distributed as it gets. From head to toe he looks like he weighs as much as Oakley when he was on the Knicks. Anthony Mason had no legs what so ever but was massive up top. Looked freakish and it shortened his career. Knees and back couldn't take the weight.

[Micku]

Depends on the team. I don't think he'll score as efficiency because Wade and Bosh plus shooters eliminates double teams.

But he does have the skillset to average similar averages. So I don't think it'll be that much of a drop off. He might score more depending on the team.

[Just2McFly]

What world do people live in these days? He's doing the same things as he's doing now.

[Lebron23]

What world do people live in these days? He's doing the same things as he's doing now.


This

LeBron is going to be a monster defensively if the NBA allows hand checking, and the use of forearm checking.



1999 -- NBA eliminates hand-checking altogether and forearm checking anywhere but below the free throw line extended. The league also allows any form of defense on the strong side of the ball.

2001 -- Illegal defense rules are eliminated and a defensive three-second rule is instituted.

2004 -- Hand-checking is completely abolished to open up the flow of the game.



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/20684964/a-timeline-for-david-sterns-career-with-the-nba

[Lebron23]

For the first half of the 90's, at least, he would be a superior player statistically. Defenses were weaker and the game was a little faster. Overall though, the game has barely changed since. LeBron would still kick just as much ass, if not more so, given that the wing talent was weaker back then.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[plowking]

In today's league where we have no players averaging 30+ppg, we have Lebron averaging 27ppg, yet back in the 90's when it was filled with multiple 30ppg scorers each season, we'd see Lebron's scoring digress? His scoring would go up a bunch, with his efficiency taking a slight hit due to being a more superstar oriented game at the time. I'd expect 30+ppg on about 52% shooting.

[madmax]

LMAO at some butthurt MJ tards in this thread:roll:
The most dominant perimeter player of all time would struggle in watered down 90's now? I'd love some of that nostalgia juice you guys are sipping here...comparing him to much inferior players like Drexler and Nique, who were nowhere near as fast or skilled as him anyway, and saying he would be less efficient than these fools?:roll: This board badly needs blast from the past section, just so all bitter clowns from the 90's can gather and talk about good ol' Space Jam days

[Kovach]

watered down 90's now?
Compared to today? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[KOBE143]

I dont think LeBron would dominate in the 90s.. He doesnt have the skills like Kobe that can dominate in any era.. He looks like a dominant player right now because he statpad.. His domination is fake, it is just an illusion.. Even tho the 90s was a watered down era, I think he would struggle playing in that era because the league would not allow him to statpad.. If only the league right now would not allow lebron to statpad, Kobe would still be the best player.. Its quite sad that the league is always on LeBron nuts since he was drafted.. I know they're looking for a new kobe because of the rape scandal that may shorten Kobe's career but they failed big time coz lebron would never ever ever be as good as Kobe Bean Bryant..

[LEFT4DEAD]

I dont think LeBron would dominate in the 90s.. He doesnt have the skills like Kobe that can dominate in any era.. He looks like a dominant player right now because he statpad.. His domination is fake, it is just an illusion.. Even tho the 90s was a watered down era, I think he would struggle playing in that era because the league would not allow him to statpad.. If only the league right now would not allow lebron to statpad, Kobe would still be the best player.. Its quite sad that the league is always on LeBron nuts since he was drafted.. I know they're looking for a new kobe because of the rape scandal that may shorten Kobe's career but they failed big time coz lebron would never ever ever be as good as Kobe Bean Bryant..
Ok we know you are butthurt because Kobe doesnt get any attention this year. We all saw what happens when Kobe is playing against great defense aka Pistons(2004) Celtics (2008,2010). Worst finals of some superstar ever. And we saw how Lebron is destroying those same Pistons, Celtics year after year.

My prediction is that he would be at least 2 times DPOY, and better version of Magic, with better scoring skillset. We saw how his jumper can look when he shots them. Its on an all time high level like in last game. I think he would evolve his jumper to the greatest level people have seen. He and Jordan would be the greatest rivalry of all time.

[julizaver]

In today's league where we have no players averaging 30+ppg, we have Lebron averaging 27ppg, yet back in the 90's when it was filled with multiple 30ppg scorers each season, we'd see Lebron's scoring digress? His scoring would go up a bunch, with his efficiency taking a slight hit due to being a more superstar oriented game at the time. I'd expect 30+ppg on about 52% shooting.

Could you name one player other than Michael Jordan and Karl Malone (during 1989-90 season) who average more than 30 ppg during the 90s ?

Just a hint: Shaq and Drob never scores 30 ppg during their careers, and the young AI was NBA leading scorer in 98-99 season with 26.8 ppg.

[Pointguard]

Could you name one player other than Michael Jordan and Karl Malone (during 1989-90 season) who average more than 30 ppg during the 90s ?

Just a hint: Shaq and Drob never scores 30 ppg during their careers, and the young AI was NBA leading scorer in 98-99 season with 26.8 ppg.
Dominique in '93 was right there. David Robinson was a pure athlete and scored primarily from that ability and was able to lead the league in scoring. Lebron is a much faster athlete with a lot more skill. No zone defense. I recall Kidd coming into the league and getting serious leverage because of his speed (and obviously his mental game).

The top SF scorers in the 90's at SF position are Nique and Hill who are very different from the rest, then there's Chris Mullin, *Glenn Robinson, Glenn Rice, Antoine Walker and *Finley - its one of the worse decades for SF's. The 90's favored shooters and guys with moves from this position. The argument for speed and quicness to succeed is that Sprewell, primarily at SG tho, who is only quick, didn't have much moves, comes in like 7th in scoring one year. All of these guys cracked the top 10 in scoring in the decade. I can't think of an argument against speed and quickness from a SF scorer.

Obviously the outstanding defenders are Pippen, Anthony Mason and Rodman. Rodman only had trouble with speed and quickness as a defender. Pippen really could never handle Dominique and Grant Hill. Anthony Mason had the same problems Pippen did but wow, what a clash of the Titan he and Lebron would be?

The argument for size is Karl Malone who was the second highest scorer of the decade. Malone doesn't sport much by moves. Lebron is at the very least between Malone (size) and Dominique (explosion and athletism) but is definitely much faster, quicker and more skilled. His handle is vastly superior and I say all of this with his mind set partly as facilitator. The slowest decade ever??? No zones to block his path... 30ppg shouldn't be that hard.

[OldSchoolBBall]

In today's league where we have no players averaging 30+ppg, we have Lebron averaging 27ppg, yet back in the 90's when it was filled with multiple 30ppg scorers each season, we'd see Lebron's scoring digress? His scoring would go up a bunch, with his efficiency taking a slight hit due to being a more superstar oriented game at the time. I'd expect 30+ppg on about 52% shooting.

Multiple 30+ ppg scorers each season? Err, no. Here are the 30 pg scorers from '90-'99:

'90 - Jordan (33.6), Malone (31.0)
'91 - Jordan (31.5)
'92 - Jordan (30.1)
'93 - Jordan (32.6)
'94 - 0
'95 - 0
'96 - Jordan (30.4)
'97 - 0
'98 - 0
'99 - 0

See a pattern? Where are the scads of 30+ ppg scorers? There was exactly ONE 30+ ppg scorer the entire DECADE not named Michael Jordan. Nice try though. That said, I do believe that Lebron could average 30+ on 50-52% FG from '90-'96 if he were in his athletic prime (age 23-29).

[guy]

In today's league where we have no players averaging 30+ppg, we have Lebron averaging 27ppg, yet back in the 90's when it was filled with multiple 30ppg scorers each season, we'd see Lebron's scoring digress? His scoring would go up a bunch, with his efficiency taking a slight hit due to being a more superstar oriented game at the time. I'd expect 30+ppg on about 52% shooting.

There's been more 30 ppg scorers in the 00s and 10s then there were in the 90s.

[KingBeasley08]

Lebron would be as good as he is now, if not better. Basketball in terms of perimeter play has improved in the past 10-15 years.

[Segatti]

He would be even better.

[Lebron23]

He would be even better.

This

[BigShotBob]

This

Stop trolling. Lebron would be far worse. So would most "stars" in today's league

[Lebron23]

He'll dominate them. He is going to make Michael Jordan looks like DeMar DeRozan

[Airupthere]

He'll dominate them. He is going to make Michael Jordan looks like DeMar DeRozan

Here is a prime example of a brantard post that you won't hear sdot or ShawkFactory complain about, no matter how idiotic it is, because it is pro Lebron. And yet, they would go to extents to call out any anti lebron post, and say they are not bothered by them. Lol

[Baller789]

Bron would be a roided out Pippen.

[Phoenix]

Man, these decade old thread bumps remind me of how many posters have stopped posting here over the years.