Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season with league and finals mvp

[Duncan21formvp]

Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season alltime with a league and finals mvp?

[Scoooter]

I think Larry was a better player, based on what I've seen of him.

[2010splash]

It's mind-boggling how people think Bird is better than LeBron right now, never mind after he wins his 4th MVP in 5 years and 2nd straight Finals MVP.

So to answer your question, yes... not only will LeBron surpass Bird with another MVP + title, but he officially moves up to #2 all time.

[Hank]

Lebron could defend Bird, or contain him. But Bird would get thrown in the dust trying to guard Lebron. It would get really ugly.

Lebron >> Bird

[Duncan21formvp]

It's mind-boggling how people think Bird is better than LeBron right now, never mind after he wins his 4th MVP in 5 years and 2nd straight Finals MVP.

So to answer your question, yes... not only will LeBron surpass Bird with another MVP + title, but he officially moves up to #2 all time.
Let's not over do it. The question was with Bird, not anyone else. They both were considered SF's, hence the question.

[Euroleague]

No. Prime Bird was better than current LeBron is.

[fsvr54]

Lebron could defend Bird, or contain him. But Bird would get thrown in the dust trying to guard Lebron. It would get really ugly.

Lebron >> Bird

Lebron couldn't defend Bird. No one couldn't.

You just can't guard all time great scorers one on one

[Scoooter]

Yeah, that seems a little strange to me. Dennis Rodman couldn't guard Bird; I don't think LeBron is a better - let alone significantly better - defender than The Worm was.

That would be a hell of a matchup though.

[Nash]

Most of ya'll were not even born when Bird was at his best. Stop giving your opinions. I have no idea if Lebron is better or not, and I don't even care. Both greats, different times.

[Scoooter]

Most of ya'll were not even born when Bird was at his best. Stop giving your opinions. I have no idea if Lebron is better or not, and I don't even care. Both greats, different times.
STFU with this horsehit. It's called history, you can study it without actually having been there. You know a lot of what Bird did was filmed and can be viewed by people today, don't you?

[Nash]

STFU with this horsehit. It's called history, you can study it without actually having been there. You know a lot of what Bird did was filmed and can be viewed by people today, don't you?
Notice how I said MOST.

[NumberSix]

Yes. Without question. He already has the superior career playoff numbers. 4 MVPs and 2 FMVPs does in fact leave Bird with no argument.

[Scoooter]

Notice how I said MOST.
It doesn't matter. No one alive today ever got to see Abraham Lincoln do anything, does that mean we shouldn't have any opinions about his presidency?

[NumberSix]

It doesn't matter. No one alive today ever got to see Abraham Lincoln do anything, does that mean we shouldn't have any opinions about his presidency?
ether.

[tikay0]

Bird still has the better over all stats, and his career was cut short due to a bad back.

I'd still have Bird over Lebron.

It's going to take him a few more rings to get to Bird/Magic/Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan levels, let alone MJ levels.

I love how people skip over all these ATG's, and go directly for MJ's throne.

[NumberSix]

Bird still has the better over all stats, and his career was cut short due to a bad back.

I'd still have Bird over Lebron.

It's going to take him a few more rings to get to Bird/Magic/Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan levels, let alone MJ levels.

I love how people skip over all these ATG's, and go directly for MJ's throne.
except for the fact that he doesn't.

[tikay0]

except for the fact that he doesn't.

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 more rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.

Bird also played a full minute less than Lebron.

[NumberSix]

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 mre rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.
When you add in that LeBron's career postseason stats are superior, I think it's safe to give LeBron the edge. That's not even getting into the fact that advanced metrics lean HEAVILY towards LeBron over Bird.

There's one caveat though. LeBron is still in his prime. Larry career stats include when he was drifing at the end of his career. Obviously when LeBron is in his mid 30's his decline will bring down his career averages.

[tikay0]

When you add in that LeBron's career postseason stats are superior, I think it's safe to give LeBron the edge. That's not even getting into the fact that advanced metrics lean HEAVILY towards LeBron over Bird.

There's one caveat though. LeBron is still in his prime. Larry career stats include when he was drifing at the end of his career. Obviously when LeBron is in his mid 30's his decline will bring down his career averages.

True.

[gengiskhan]

Bird's Career Average

24+ pts / 10 rpg / 6.3 apg

thats 24-25 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE for career !!!!

No Kobe or LBJ or Wade or Durant ever passing that.

Everyone need to get this thing in their heads right now.

LBJ's career so far. 27.6 ppgs / 7.2 rpg / 6.9 apg.

INFLATION ADJUST Bird's stats to today's full blown offensive era with wide open lanes & open paint area

24-25 ppgs become 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE for whole career. !!!

Bird is clearly >> LBJ as Greatest SF to ever play the game!

[NumberSix]

Bird's Career Average

24+ pts / 10 rpg / 6.3 apg

thats 24-25 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE for career !!!!

No Kobe or LBJ or Wade or Durant ever passing that.

Everyone need to get this thing in their heads right now.

LBJ's career so far. 27.6 ppgs / 7.2 rpg / 6.9 apg.

INFLATION ADJUST Bird's stats to today's full blown offensive era with wide open lanes & open paint area

24-25 ppgs become 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE. !!!

Bird is clearly >> LBJ as Greatest SF to ever play the game!
OMG fail. You've lost all credibility.

Lol. Yes. If only today's defense was as tough as what they had in the 1980's.....



wait for it.....




























:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LikeABosh]

maybe not by season end, but Lebron passing Bird is inevitable due to longevity. Bron will surpass alot of Birds accomplishments and totals before he's 30.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bird has 3 rings and lost twice to Magic/Kareem Lakers in the Finals. Lebron if he wins would have 2 rings and lost twice to the Spurs and Mavs. So how the **** would his legacy be better?
Lebron would be at the #11 range with another ring.

[gengiskhan]

OMG fail. You've lost all credibility.

Lol. Yes. If only today's defense was as tough as what they had in the 1980's.....



waiting for it.....



Here it is again.

-Wide open lanes to the baskets.
-NO camping in the paint area.
-Bird was 10 x better jump shooter than LBJ ever was, is will be
-Bird can shoot anywhere inside the half court from both sides of the court at any angle unlike LBJ.
-Big SHAQ-like centers have become extinct like dinausours

Bird will go for 29-30 PPG for career & add 10+ RPG to that.

LBJ will never get to Bird's level.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

damn NumberSix, hitting that refresh page often i see.

[NumberSix]

Bird has 3 rings and lost twice to Magic/Kareem Lakers in the Finals. Lebron if he wins would have 2 rings and lost twice to the Spurs and Mavs. So how the **** would his legacy be better?
Lebron would be at the #11 range with another ring.
4 MVPs and 2 FMVPs > 3 MVPs and 2 FMVPs.

BTW, it's only idiots like you who think losing in the finals is some sort of stain on your legacy. Only a moron thinks losing in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round is better than losing in the finals.

[Dave3]

It doesn't matter. No one alive today ever got to see Abraham Lincoln do anything, does that mean we shouldn't have any opinions about his presidency?
The documenting of the action is enough to form an opinion. Basketball isn't something you can document thoroughly enough that you can judge without seeing.

[gengiskhan]

4 MVPs and 2 FMVPs > 3 MVPs and 2 FMVPs.

BTW, it's only idiots like you who think losing in the finals is some sort of stain on your legacy. Only a moron thinks losing in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round is better than losing in the finals.

damb faaaaak


1 FMVPs vs Magic, kareem & 3 x champs LAL >>>>> 1 FMVP vs durant, westbrook & 1st time finalist OKC.

live with it.

[Deuce Bigalow]

4 MVPs and 2 FMVPs > 3 MVPs and 2 FMVPs.

BTW, it's only idiots like you who think losing in the finals is some sort of stain on your legacy. Only a moron thinks losing in the 1st, 2nd or 3rd round is better than losing in the finals.
3 rings > 2 rings

Losing in the finals is better than losing in the previous rounds, but Bird lost to the 85 and 87 Lakers, Lebron lost to the 07 Spurs and 11 Mavs while putting up the two worst performances of all time.

[Scoooter]

The documenting of the action is enough to form an opinion. Basketball isn't something you can document thoroughly enough that you can judge without seeing.
Good thing we have video cameras.

[arifgokcen]

Bird has 3 rings and lost twice to Magic/Kareem Lakers in the Finals. Lebron if he wins would have 2 rings and lost twice to the Spurs and Mavs. So how the **** would his legacy be better?
Lebron would be at the #11 range with another ring.
Let me get this straight.According to your poll lebron was ranked at #11.

After he wins 1MVP and 1FMVP(assuming of course) he just stands where he is.Dude come on.

4MVP and 2FMVP Wilt has 4MVP and 1FMVP and two rings he is widely regarded as top 5-6 according to your poll #5-6(i dont remember).His stats were legendary but then lebrons stats is legendary too.Considering how slow todays game is nobody even came close to averaging these kind of numbers.

Even though you hate PER he has some of the highest PERs in history.(which for me explains the value of a player)

[Deuce Bigalow]

Let me get this straight.According to your poll lebron was ranked at #11.

After he wins 1MVP and 1FMVP(assuming of course) he just stands where he is.Dude come on.

4MVP and 2FMVP Wilt has 4MVP and 1FMVP and two rings he is widely regarded as top 5-6 according to your poll #5-6(i dont remember).His stats were legendary but then lebrons stats is legendary too.Considering how slow todays game is nobody even came close to averaging these kind of numbers.

Even though you hate PER he has some of the highest PERs in history.(which for me explains the value of a player)
The poll was done fresh off the 2012 Playoffs. In the 2011 poll of the top 25 all time Lebron didn't make it in. West, Oscar, and Moses are ahead of Lebron right now on the all time list, Lebron is at #14. So another ring would put him #11 because Hakeem also has 2 rings and a better and longer career so far. 2 rings and a 10 year career is not better than Hakeem's 2 rings and longer career. Wilt is rated so how because he has like 100 scoring+rebounding records along with his rings, which nobody will ever have because that weak era is over.

[Harison]

Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season alltime with a league and finals mvp?

It doesnt matter if he does or doesnt, Lebron still isnt as good nor will be ranked as high as Bird.

Like Dwight has as many DPOYs as Hakeem, KG and Duncan combined, and yet he isnt as good defensively as any of them. Awards matter little without context, same applies to Lebron.

[truhooper]

It's mind-boggling how people think Bird is better than LeBron right now, never mind after he wins his 4th MVP in 5 years and 2nd straight Finals MVP.

So to answer your question, yes... not only will LeBron surpass Bird with another MVP + title, but he officially moves up to #2 all time.

:cheers:

[Der Zed]

bird was a motherf*cker, playing against him from the day he was drafted to the day he limped into legend meant paying full attention to him, game planning against him, hoping against hope he didn't get hot. as of LAST year this became true of Lebron but guys like Bird were born bastards, there was never a time to take them lightly. Lebron is finally becoming who he was being sold as almost a decade ago. great player, fun to watch but without his PR disaster going to Miami who cared until now? now he's going off, let's see if he's evil enough to sustain it.

[Fudge]

NumberSix, again, with no argument. Dude didn't even watch Bird play. Stay in your lane. :oldlol:

[2010splash]

It doesnt matter if he does or doesnt, Lebron still isnt as good nor will be ranked as high as Bird.

Like Dwight has as many DPOYs as Hakeem, KG and Duncan combined, and yet he isnt as good defensively as any of them. Awards matter little without context, same applies to Lebron.
Delusion at its finest here. Aside from the fact that he won more rings, there isn

[Fudge]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Delusion at its finest here. Aside from the fact that he won more rings, there isn

[Deuce Bigalow]

[QUOTE=2010splash]Delusion at its finest here. Aside from the fact that he won more rings, there isn

[Papaya Petee]

Only delusional fans with very limited basketball knowledge count "rings" as do end do all.

All-NBA teams
All-Defense teams
MVP's
FMVP's
Rings
DPOY's
Gold Medals
Statistics
All-Star Appereances
Efficiency.

All matter. People who say he's better cause 3 rings> 2 rings, talk out of their ass.

[gin17]

No.

[get these NETS]

I think 2 more rings and there's no question, regardless of any more mvps


Bird was my dude..and I rooted for the Celtics when I was young, but Bron took ymca team to the Finals...
went to finals twice with ONE other great player...and some also rans ..


also Bird's 3 straight mvps, to me, was marketing move by nba and sports writers..and wasn't a coincidence that nba ratings soared as Bird was the face of the league as the reigning mvp..

[NumberSix]

NumberSix, again, with no argument. Dude didn't even watch Bird play. Stay in your lane. :oldlol:
Cool story bro. And how old are you? 18? 21? :confusedshrug:

[arifgokcen]

The poll was done fresh off the 2012 Playoffs. In the 2011 poll of the top 25 all time Lebron didn't make it in. West, Oscar, and Moses are ahead of Lebron right now on the all time list, Lebron is at #14. So another ring would put him #11 because Hakeem also has 2 rings and a better and longer career so far. 2 rings and a 10 year career is not better than Hakeem's 2 rings and longer career. Wilt is rated so how because he has like 100 scoring+rebounding records along with his rings, which nobody will ever have because that weak era is over.

Dude you are generally pretty strong in your arguments but this argument of yours is pretty weak.

Kobe was #21-22(dont remember the exact number) before winning 2 titles without shaq poll showed this not yours but ISH polls but after just 2 rings and 2FMVPs and one MVP he is as you can concur top 10 or more like #7-8-9 player however after lebron wins 2FMVP and 4MVP compared to kobe's 2FMVP 5 rings and 1MVP he is below hakeem.

Please dont say he hasnt been in the league enough because he has been superstar and 1st team all nba than all those guys you mention including hakeem.
Hakeem ach. 2FMVP 1MVP 6x1st allnba
Lebron(of course again this is assuming he wins another title).He is sure to win another MVP if he doesnt get injured

2FMVP 4MVP 7x1st allnba

Unlike many other greats in top 7-14 range lebron has been a superstar since 20 his 2nd year.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I think 2 more rings and there's no question, regardless of any more mvps


Bird was my dude..and I rooted for the Celtics when I was young, but Bron took ymca team to the Finals...
went to finals twice with ONE other great player...and some also rans ..


also Bird's 3 straight mvps, to me, was marketing move by nba and sports writers..and wasn't a coincidence that nba ratings soared as Bird was the face of the league as the reigning mvp..
That "YMCA" team was one of the top 5 defenses that year.

[LikeABosh]

That "YMCA" team was one of the top 5 defenses that year.
So Lebron made his YMCA team into a top defensive team. cool

[Dave3]

Good thing we have video cameras.
Yeah sure, but has anyone actually watched seasons worth of those guys? 90% of people haven't watched a single full Bird game, let alone enough games to make that call. Hell, people are saying these 50 games from LeBron isn't enough to make a judgement, and yet watching a couple of highlight videos is enough to rate an entire player's career?

[joeysms55]

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 more rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.

Bird also played a full minute less than Lebron.

Well you clearly mistakenly round off James average to make it look bad because this is his:

Lebron James: 27.6 pts. 7.2 rebs. 6.9 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

So your suppose to round it off 28, 7, 7.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Dude you are generally pretty strong in your arguments but this argument of yours is pretty weak.

Kobe was #21-22(dont remember the exact number) before winning 2 titles without shaq poll showed this not yours but ISH polls but after just 2 rings and 2FMVPs and one MVP he is as you can concur top 10 or more like #7-8-9 player however after lebron wins 2FMVP and 4MVP compared to kobe's 2FMVP 5 rings and 1MVP he is below hakeem.

Please dont say he hasnt been in the league enough because he has been superstar and 1st team all nba than all those guys you mention including hakeem.
Hakeem ach. 2FMVP 1MVP 6x1st allnba
Lebron(of course again this is assuming he wins another title).He is sure to win another MVP if he doesnt get injured

2FMVP 4MVP 7x1st allnba

Unlike many other greats in top 7-14 range lebron has been a superstar since 20 his 2nd year.
So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?

[GOBB_Junior]

So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?


He's also greater than Kobe.

[Whoah10115]

It doesnt matter if he does or doesnt, Lebron still isnt as good nor will be ranked as high as Bird.

Like Dwight has as many DPOYs as Hakeem, KG and Duncan combined, and yet he isnt as good defensively as any of them. Awards matter little without context, same applies to Lebron.



It's funny how Howard is ranked. Howard is a better defensive player than Tim Duncan.

[gengiskhan]

Larry Bird: 24 pts. 10 rebs. 6 assts. 1.7 stls. 0.8 blocks FG% .496

Lebron James: 27 pts. 7 rebs. 6 assts 1.7 stls 0.8 blocks FG% .488

3 more pts. for Lebron, 3 more rebounds for Bird

Ok, so they're pretty much identical. FG% goes to Bird, while being primarily a jump shooter.

Bird also played a full minute less than Lebron.

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career

[arifgokcen]

So if Lebron wins another title this year, he is greater than Hakeem Olajuwon in your opinion?
Yes assuming he wins FMVP and MVP he would definitely be higher.

and this is not my opinion this is the criteria you set.Remember! If lebron wins this year he would have 2FMVP and 4MVP.You know who else has those kind of accomplishments in the history.

Let me see who else have those numbers
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Michael Jordan
or lets say 2rings and 4 MVPs

Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Russell.

Yes only those 4.

[Hank]

That "YMCA" team was one of the top 5 defenses that year.

And Wade anchored that pathetic 2010 Heat YMCA cast to a Top 5 defensive team that year.


Great defensive anchors can do that. Why are you surprised ?? OH wait.. because kobe is incapable of doing that only worrying about chucking shots and being a liability everywhere else.

[arifgokcen]

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career

Dude wow inflation :D:D:D

WOWWWWWW

This is the first time i am hearing inflation adjust.

I thought that was supposed to be pace adjusted though when you use universal criteria lebron numbers actually look much higher so you made up a criteria which is based on the fact that 80s is a better defensive era though the same player you are inflate adjusting for said today is a much better defensive era.

IRONY huh :D:D:D

[LikeABosh]

You did not INFLATION ADJUST Bird's points to 2000-present ERA!!!

Its much easier to score now as game is lot more offense oriented!

Larry Bird's 24+ ppg becomes 28-29 ppg for Career !!

remember, Bird was much more efficient scorer than LBJ from outside & mid range & his shot was money from anywhere incl 3 pt line.

so Birds 28-29 ppg DOUBLE DOUBLE whole career >>>> LBJ's 27 ppg whole career
What the **** are you talking about? The game is more offensive oriented today? Are you serious? It's not even close. Lets look back at one of Bird's MVP seasons in 84' The highest scoring team in the league scored 120 per game, the LOWEST scoring team put up 102. Half the teams in the league scored over 110 a game you dumbass. You didn't watch basketball in the 80's did you? Probably weren't even alive.

[chazzy]

So Lebron made his YMCA team into a top defensive team. cool
2007 Lebron was not a great defender by any means and they were the 3rd best defense

Why do people try to revise that year so much. Real Lebron fans don't even think he was that great compared to his other years, yet people try to use it as qualifier over other all time greats like MJ or Bird. Nobody was saying Lebron was as good as them in 07

[Djahjaga]

When you add in that LeBron's career postseason stats are superior, I think it's safe to give LeBron the edge. That's not even getting into the fact that advanced metrics lean HEAVILY towards LeBron over Bird.

There's one caveat though. LeBron is still in his prime. Larry career stats include when he was drifing at the end of his career. Obviously when LeBron is in his mid 30's his decline will bring down his career averages.

I haven't looked at the PER formula in depth, so feel free to correct me on this, but it always seemed to me that PER heavily favored rebounds, threes, free throws drawn (as well as FT%) more so than assists and steals.

Bird's PER suffers in this respect because of his low volume on 3PA (relative to today's game) and low FTA (highest 6.1, followed by two other seasons of 6.0), which I'm tempted to say was a product of his era (though I dunno how certain I am that fewer ticky-tack fouls were called then).

In 84-85 and 85-86, Larry led the league in PER with 26.5 and 25.6, respectively. Those would barely be top 5 PERs in today's league (mostly because of Lebron, granted, but someone like Garnett also had higher peak PERs than Bird). This demonstrates the changes the league has undergone in the way the game is played. And advanced metrics were, after all, invented late into basketball's history, as people began to realize the value of the three-point shot and the idea of TS% and EFG% arose.


tl;dr Advanced metrics are sometimes unfairly biased against players from the 80s and earlier, though there are a few notable outliers.

[1987_Lakers]

LeBron will be ranked ahead of Bird by the time he retires due to having more longevity. By the end of this season he will already have 4 NBA MVPs already surpassing Bird and I see him finishing with atleast 3 championships, it's only a matter of time before he surpasses Bird.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Yes assuming he wins FMVP and MVP he would definitely be higher.

and this is not my opinion this is the criteria you set.Remember! If lebron wins this year he would have 2FMVP and 4MVP.You know who else has those kind of accomplishments in the history.

Let me see who else have those numbers
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Michael Jordan
or lets say 2rings and 4 MVPs

Kareem
MJ
Wilt
Russell.

Yes only those 4.
No that is not my criteria. I don't use MVPs, don't even care about them. Allen Iverson won MVP over Shaq in 01. Malone won MVP over MJ in 97. Nash won MVP over Kobe in 06. MVPs don't go to the best player so why would they matter? You're going to tell me those players that won MVP were better than the player that didn't win? Hakeem has 2 titles and those two titles are a couple of the greatest runs ever. Lebron if he won again would also have two titles, them being not as impressive as Hakeem's obviously since Hakeem didn't have a Wade or Bosh. I don't see how Lebron gets ranked over him. Compare Hakeem's best seasons to Lebron's best seasons are a better comparison than using MVPs. Hakeem is known as one of the greatest defenders of all time so consider that when comparing seasons and the fact that Hakeem would have the same amount of titles with them more impressive would point to Hakeem being the greater player still.

[Whoah10115]

What happens if the Heat win and Wade is the FMVP? Does that hurt Lebron?


Or is that not allowed?

[2010splash]

No that is not my criteria. I don't use MVPs, don't even care about them. Allen Iverson won MVP over Shaq in 01. Malone won MVP over MJ in 97. Nash won MVP over Kobe in 06. MVPs don't go to the best player so why would they matter? You're going to tell me those players that won MVP were better than the player that didn't win? Hakeem has 2 titles and those two titles are a couple of the greatest runs ever. Lebron if he won again would also have two titles, them being not as impressive as Hakeem's obviously since Hakeem didn't have a Wade or Bosh. I don't see how Lebron gets ranked over him. Compare Hakeem's best seasons to Lebron's best seasons are a better comparison than using MVPs. Hakeem is known as one of the greatest defenders of all time so consider that when comparing seasons and the fact that Hakeem would have the same amount of titles with them more impressive would point to Hakeem being the greater player still.
LeBron's titles are undoubtedly better than Hakeem's. What competition did Hakeem have? No Jordan, that's what. Probably would have won nothing were it not for Jordan's retirement. LeBron is just as great a defender as Hakeem, a 5-position guarding menace. Hakeem could guard how many positions again? Just one, oops.

Not to mention that LeBron's Game 6 of the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals is the single greatest individual playoff performance of ALL-TIME.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201206070BOS.html

45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 19-26 FG-FGA. Facing elimination, win or go home game on the road against one of the top defensive teams ever.

Hakeem never had a game that dominant. Nor did Hakeem ever have a single season as dominant as any of LeBron's from 2008 to present.

[Jacks3]

LBJ in 09/10/12/13 was better than Bird ever was. Now it's just a matter of longevity. 2 seasons should it.

[Whoah10115]

LBJ in 09/10/12/13 was better than Bird ever was. Now it's just a matter of longevity. 2 seasons should it.



Holy shit lol.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Also you can't compare their All-NBA First Teams. There is only one Center spot on the all-nba team, while there is two spots for forwards and guards. Also look at competition, other centers in his time were Shaq, Robinson, and Ewing.

[Jacks3]

Holy shit lol.
Straight truth son. Bird was never was dominant as LBJ was during those seasons.

[iamgine]

LeBron's titles are undoubtedly better than Hakeem's. What competition did Hakeem have? No Jordan, that's what. Probably would have won nothing were it not for Jordan's retirement. LeBron is just as great a defender as Hakeem, a 5-position guarding menace. Hakeem could guard how many positions again? Just one, oops.

Not to mention that LeBron's Game 6 of the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals is the single greatest individual playoff performance of ALL-TIME.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201206070BOS.html

45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 19-26 FG-FGA. Facing elimination, win or go home game on the road against one of the top defensive teams ever.

Hakeem never had a game that dominant. Nor did Hakeem ever have a single season as dominant as any of LeBron's from 2008 to present.
Lebron also no Jordan.

[Whoah10115]

Straight truth son. Bird was never was dominant as LBJ was during those seasons.


:roll:


Wade was probably the MVP in 2009. Is he better than Bird too? James is clearly better now than he was in Cleveland. Arguing Cleveland LeBron is insane.

[Deuce Bigalow]

LeBron's titles are undoubtedly better than Hakeem's. What competition did Hakeem have? No Jordan, that's what. Probably would have won nothing were it not for Jordan's retirement. LeBron is just as great a defender as Hakeem, a 5-position guarding menace. Hakeem could guard how many positions again? Just one, oops.

Not to mention that LeBron's Game 6 of the 2012 Eastern Conference Finals is the single greatest individual playoff performance of ALL-TIME.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201206070BOS.html

45 points, 15 rebounds, 5 assists, 19-26 FG-FGA. Facing elimination, win or go home game on the road against one of the top defensive teams ever.

Hakeem never had a game that dominant. Nor did Hakeem ever have a single season as dominant as any of LeBron's from 2008 to present.
Lebron had Wade and Bosh, 2 teammates that made the all-star team, with one making an all-nba team.
Hakeem had no teammates that made an all-star team or an all-nba team.

[Horatio33]

Yeah, that seems a little strange to me. Dennis Rodman couldn't guard Bird; I don't think LeBron is a better - let alone significantly better - defender than The Worm was.

That would be a hell of a matchup though.

I'm a bird fan, but check 1988 ECF. With Rodman guarding him, Bird shot 35%.

[NumberSix]

If LeBron wins MVP and FMVP this season, where do LelBron rank?


http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/lehrer%20lelbron.jpg

[tazb]

Finals MVP > Rings

[NumberSix]

Finals MVP > Rings
So, what if LeBron only wins 2 rings, but wins like 5 FMVPs? :confusedshrug:

[Kobe 4 The Win]

It's mind-boggling how people think Bird is better than LeBron right now, never mind after he wins his 4th MVP in 5 years and 2nd straight Finals MVP.

So to answer your question, yes... not only will LeBron surpass Bird with another MVP + title, but he officially moves up to #2 all time.

Get the f**k outta here. # 2 all time. lol.

Lebron is a great, great player but people are in too big of a hurry to make him the GOAT. It's laughable.

[tazb]

So, what if LeBron only wins 2 rings, but wins like 5 FMVPs? :confusedshrug:

Then he's the undisputed G.O.A.T.

[All Net]

Yes but you could argue it now..

[Jacks3]

:roll:


Wade was probably the MVP in 2009.
No, he wasn't. LBJ won freaking 66 games with a bunch of role-players AND put up better numbers.

Wade won 42 games.

Wade has ZERO case.


Is he better than Bird too?
:facepalm

James is clearly better now than he was in Cleveland. Arguing Cleveland LeBron is insane.
He's slightly better. Doesn't change the fact that he was GOAT level in 2009 and 2010. It's crazy how people already forget just how incredible LeBron was during those seasons.

[LebronairJAMES]

no

[BigTicket]

Yes, he would move ahead of Larry Bird on my list.

If Lebron won both MVP's this year they'd be equal on accomplishments, and they're already equal on offense, so the tiebreaker for me is defense, where Lebron is clearly better.

[LakersForlife]

lebron already surpassed bird. better inside scorer,3 pointer 14/26 last 7 games,better rebounder,passer,better defender

[RobertdeMeijer]

Interesting:
Larry Bird,
Season win shares: 145.8
Playoff win shares: 24.8

Lebron James,
Season win shares: 145.6
Playoff win shares: 24.3

Very close at the moment.
But because Larry has played for a team that contended for the title a whole decade, and LeBron only half a decade, I feel that he'll only be even with Bird if he received the MVP and FMVP.
I just can't shake it: Larry Legend made so much noise for such a long time; I feel like LeBron is still a tier below him, even though LeBron has caught up with him in talent, stats and most of the honors.

[Duncan21formvp]

Yes but you could argue it now..
In what way now? You think Lebron is top 7 or 8 all time now?

[2010splash]

In what way now? You think Lebron is top 7 or 8 all time now?
He's easily top 7-8 right now. And he'll definitely be way past Bird after he wins MVP + Finals MVP this year (if he isn't way past him already).

Fools say he'll never catch Wilt despite Wilt having only 2 titles (which LeBron will match at age 28), 4 MVPs (which LeBron will match at age 28). How does that make sense? LeBron is on pace to finish way past Wilt.

They rank Russell ahead of him despite his 14 ppg career average on low shooting percentages. Sorry, but basketball is played on BOTH ends of the court. LeBron is elite at both.

Even guys like Magic, Kareem, Kobe, Hakeem etc were worse players than LeBron and are only ranked ahead because they have more titles. If LeBron was drafted onto team like the 1980 Lakers instead of the Cleveland Scrubaliers, he'd have 6 titles by now.

[Euroleague]

This is a stupid thread. LeBron is nowhere near what prime Bird was.

[LBJFTW]

I love this Stan logic. "It's proven that LBJ can't touch MJ's perfection, so lets go after Bird as they are both SF". lol, Bron has a longggggggg way to go.

[BlackVVaves]

It's mind-boggling how people think Bird is better than LeBron right now, never mind after he wins his 4th MVP in 5 years and 2nd straight Finals MVP.

So to answer your question, yes... not only will LeBron surpass Bird with another MVP + title, but he officially moves up to #2 all time.

Wow. Just...wow.

4 MVPs and 2 rings (albeit great accomplishments) places him over Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Mr. Russell?

Um....joke?

And, in my honest opinion, Lebron (career wise) doesn't surpass Duncan and Kobe on the All Time list until he picks up that third ring. Though that is quite debatable, and almost trivial as I expect Lebron to surpass those two on the All Time list sooner rather than later.

[NBASTATMAN]

Does Lebron surpass Larry Bird at the end of the season alltime with a league and finals mvp?


Career wise Lebron may pass him but he still lacks the mastery of the game that Bird showed on offense. Lebron is the only player that does have that feel of the game like Bird and Magic did..

[2010splash]

This is a stupid thread. LeBron is nowhere near what prime Bird was.
LOL!!!!:roll: :roll:

LeBron takes a big steaming dump all over prime Bird. Better scorer, better finisher, comparable 3-pt shooter (look at his percentage this year), better playoff performer, better ball handler, better passer, better stats, waaay better defender in every respect (help, man to man, post). He also led far worse teams to much more impressive records. Bird could never take the Cavs to league-leading regular season records.

LeBron will have probably ten 30+ PER seasons by the time his career is over. Bird has zero :applause:

[2010splash]

Wow. Just...wow.

4 MVPs and 2 rings (albeit great accomplishments) places him over Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Mr. Russell?

Um....joke?

And, in my honest opinion, Lebron (career wise) doesn't surpass Duncan and Kobe on the All Time list until he picks up that third ring. Though that is quite debatable, and almost trivial as I expect Lebron to surpass those two on the All Time list sooner rather than later.
It's ridiculous to compare what people did in the 60's and 70's where there was little competition to what LeBron is doing in the modern era. Russell would never win 11 titles in today's game and Kareem wouldn't even have averaged better numbers than prime Shaq today, never mind the 34/18 crap that he put up in the 70's.

Secondly, LeBron is a better and more dominant force than Magic, Kareem or Russell. There is no single criteria to ranking players. It shouldn't solely be based on number of rings, as LeBron was never lucky enough to be drafted onto a championship team (Magic), whine like a girl and force a trade to championship team (Kareem), or play on a stacked team in a 8 team league with horrible competition (Russell).

Context needs to be added to the accomplishments of all these players who are supposedly greater than LeBron. All I know is that in an all-time draft of NBA players who ever played, here would be the order:

1. Jordan/LeBron
2. LeBron/Jordan
3. Shaq



The rest.

[Kovach]

LeBron takes a big steaming dump all over prime Bird.
No.

Better scorer
No.

better finisher
No.

comparable 3-pt shooter (look at his percentage this year)
Only because Bird attempted his first 3-pointer at 23 years of age.

better playoff performer
No.

better ball handler
Yes.

better passer
Not in a million years.

better stats
Difference is so marginal it doesn't really matter.

waaay better defender in every respect (help, man to man, post)
No.

He also led far worse teams to much more impressive records.
Nothing Lebron did is as impressive as taking a 29 win team to 61 wins and the ECF the following season.

Bird could never take the Cavs to league-leading regular season records.
How do you know? Do you have any proof?

LeBron will have probably ten 30+ PER seasons by the time his career is over. Bird has zero :applause:
Which is a borderline meaningless stat that that champions ball-dominant and punishes unselfish, pass-first players. Great for him.

Got anything else?

[2010splash]

No.

No.

No.

Only because Bird attempted his first 3-pointer at 23 years of age.

No.

Yes.

Not in a million years.

Difference is so marginal it doesn't really matter.

No.

Nothing Lebron did is as impressive as taking a 29 win team to 61 wins and the ECF the following season.

How do you know? Do you have any proof?

Which is a borderline meaningless stat that that champions ball-dominant and punishes unselfish, pass-first players. Great for him.

Got anything else?
LeBron is an unselfish, pass-first player. It's not a meaningless stat just because it rates Bird as a very pedestrian superstar. No shame in not being Jordan/LeBron/Shaq dominant.

LeBron took a 19 win team and led them to 66 wins. More impressive than Bird taking a 29 win team to 61 wins. The Cavs won 19 games when LeBron left.

The statistical difference is not marginal. LeBron destroys Bird at basically everything. Playing in the 80s he scores more, rebounds more and gets more assists. He's only behind in rebounds anyway. Destroys Bird at basically everything.

And denying that LeBron is a vastly superior defensive player than Bird is bordering delusion. Not even the biggest Bird worshiper would suggest he's in LeBron's class as a defender.

The rest of your "no" responses are just wrong. You can choose to deny the truth, but it doesn't make you correct. Sorry, LeBron just owns Bird.

[arifgokcen]

No.

No.

No.

Only because Bird attempted his first 3-pointer at 23 years of age.

No.

Yes.

Not in a million years.

Difference is so marginal it doesn't really matter.

No.

Nothing Lebron did is as impressive as taking a 29 win team to 61 wins and the ECF the following season.

How do you know? Do you have any proof?

Which is a borderline meaningless stat that that champions ball-dominant and punishes unselfish, pass-first players. Great for him.

Got anything else?

A very convincing rebuttal

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[pauk]

No! He got blocked by Kobe in a all-star game, Bird was never blocked, especially not in important games like that.

[BlackVVaves]

It's ridiculous to compare what people did in the 60's and 70's where there was little competition to what LeBron is doing in the modern era. Russell would never win 11 titles in today's game and Kareem wouldn't even have averaged better numbers than prime Shaq today, never mind the 34/18 crap that he put up in the 70's.

Secondly, LeBron is a better and more dominant force than Magic, Kareem or Russell. There is no single criteria to ranking players. It shouldn't solely be based on number of rings, as LeBron was never lucky enough to be drafted onto a championship team (Magic), whine like a girl and force a trade to championship team (Kareem), or play on a stacked team in a 8 team league with horrible competition (Russell).

Context needs to be added to the accomplishments of all these players who are supposedly greater than LeBron. All I know is that in an all-time draft of NBA players who ever played, here would be the order:

1. Jordan/LeBron
2. LeBron/Jordan
3. Shaq



The rest.

I am going to safely assume you began watching and following the NBA sometime in the last two decades. Prior to the emergence of the global sensation known as Air Jordan, a player's greatness in his place in history was always correlated to his fortitude to win, and the championships that his dominance helped seize during his career. That is why many basketball fans and critics consistently placed Russell over Wilt. Why many placed Magic over Bird after 88. Individual dominance was always heavily weighted, but not to usurp the significance of the glorious NBA championship.

Then Jordan came, began winning championships (as it was his Achilles heel during the 80s when people pondered his comparison to Magic and Bird), and it that way of thinking began to erode. In came the glorification of the individual player and his stats, for Jordan was simply a phenomenon and truly greater than the team - in fact, greater than the NBA itself. Coupled with his great individual play came championships, and that of course helped solidify his place in sports history. But his conquest came with a slight cost, as the focus shifted to a more numerical way of observing dominance, rather than impact in the forum of team success.

So, when you tell me that Bron shouldn't be compared to Russell because he played in the 60s, or Magic because he was drafted by a better organization, I think: so, how do you define greatness? Because if you can't compare Lebron's career to the careers of former greats to properly evaluate his standing in a pool of All Time greats, then maybe you should reassess how exactly you determine greatness. Ultimately, Lebron's combination of talent and physical stature are nearly unparalleled. And though it won't be disputed whether he can and has dominated in his era, greatness is also tied into how you transcend that peak play into winning - isn't that the point of all sports? You can't take away anything from Russell, Magic and Kareem, Kobe and Shaq, or whomever for winning in their circumstance, era, ect. People will point to Lebron having to team up with two other Hall of Famers in their prime to win championships, while many of the other All Time greats simply had the great fortune to rise next to other formidable teammates, or even help MAKE them great. Should we discredit Bron's championship or his championships to come due to that less natural circumstance?

I'm sure, as a Heat fan, you'll say no. So don't attempt to utilize those same variables to discredit those other great players. We should be mindful of those circumstances (Bron did play with crap players for many years) but he also failed his team in many of his opportunities to win a title (between 2009 and 2011 there are various instances that many attribute the Cavs/Heat shortcomings to Bron quitting or just not performing like the great player he is). Ultimately though, all those things should be secular in the larger scope: WINNING CHAMPIONSHIPS. At least it is to me. Because that isn't how I define greatness, but it's the most potent ingredient in the recipe.

So, for me, when Bron's grasps hold of more championship rings, than the All Time greatest discussion will be better suited. But right now, and again I'm speaking in terms of overall career and not present day play, there's no way I can sit with a straight face and say Lebron should be ranked higher than Kareem, Russell, Magic, or Shaq. Or Kobe or Duncan for that matter, but again that's much more, much more debatable.

To echo his Airness' sentiments: "5 always beats 1." And the same can be said for 4 (Shaq and Duncan). And certainly for 6 (Kareem and Jordan himself.)

But hey. That's just my opinion.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron will Pass Bird or at least be Neck and Neck with Him if he wins MVP, Championship and Finals MVP.. If he gets back to back years of that that Trio sweep it is pretty impressive and rare company.

[Kovach]

A very convincing rebuttal

:roll: :roll: :roll:
I got my comebacks from the "How to Respond to an Idiot" manual.

[Kovach]

LeBron is an unselfish, pass-first player. It's not a meaningless stat just because it rates Bird as a very pedestrian superstar. No shame in not being Jordan/LeBron/Shaq dominant.
It is meaningless because it completely ignores context.

LeBron took a 19 win team and led them to 66 wins. More impressive than Bird taking a 29 win team to 61 wins.
You missed the following season part. Then the next year he was given a barely-contributing rookie and the starting center of the 2nd worst team in the league and won it all.
So Lebron took shitty Cavs to 66 wins and the finals in a shitty conference while beating only a single above average team in the playoffs in 7 years he was with them...again, who cares?

The statistical difference is not marginal. LeBron destroys Bird at basically everything. Playing in the 80s he scores more, rebounds more and gets more assists. He's only behind in rebounds anyway. Destroys Bird at basically everything.
Please post me some vids of Lebron playing in the 80's. I could care less about your useless conjectures.

And denying that LeBron is a vastly superior defensive player than Bird is bordering delusion. Not even the biggest Bird worshiper would suggest he's in LeBron's class as a defender.
Perhaps not in the same class but the difference is nowhere near as big as those who never seen Bird play like to suggest.

The rest of your "no" responses are just wrong. You can choose to deny the truth, but it doesn't make you correct. Sorry, LeBron just owns Bird.
Just because you live in a fantasy world where what you say is true does not make it "the truth."

[2010splash]

It is meaningless because it completely ignores context.No it doesn

[MisterAmazing]

No! He got blocked by Kobe in a all-star game, Bird was never blocked, especially not in important games like that.

joke gets a 1/10, would not recommend to a friend

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uQ76qrlK78

[lilgodfather1]

Easily, and there would be no logical argument otherwise.

[Kovach]

No it doesn’t. It measures individual productivity at various aspects of the game. It also suggests LeBron is much more dominant than Bird was but comparably dominant to Jordan and Shaq.

It doesn't take into consideration different team strategies on offense and different rosters surrounding star players.

This same conclusion could also be reached using the “eye test” as well.
For your conclusion to be valid your eyes actually need to be connected to your brain. Bird could score 10 points and still completely dominate the game. How do I know? I've seen him do it. Eye test is a bitch.

He played with Parish, McHale, Archibald, Maxwell, etc.
The 61 win Celtics didn't have Parish and McHale and Archibald and Maxwell on their own were 2nd worst in the league "good." What Bird did would be like taking the last year's Pistons to the top of the conference and the conference finals this year.
Also, neither Parish nor McHale were HoF-ers when they joined the Celtics. McHale took a few years before he started contributing and Parish was a 17, 10 center of the 2nd worst tam in the league, the late 70's equivalent of Greg Monroe.

Much better than the trash LeBron was carrying to 60+ wins.
Not so much considering the trash Lebron had to compete against, as opposed to what Bird had to go through.

And I didn’t miss the “following season” part. You said Bird leading a previously 29 win team to 61 wins is more impressive than anything LeBron did. I pointed out how obviously false this was when LeBron carried what proved to be a 19 win team to 66 wins and 61 wins.
You clearly did miss it. The following season Lebron took a 19 win team to 35 wins. Nowhere near as impressive as 61 and ECF.

Videos of LeBron aren’t needed, just simple logic.
con

[KOBE143]

Even before the humiliation from Kobe..

No chance..

[PP34Deuce]

I believe Lebron can surpass Bird if he...

can get 2 more championships at 3 with 3 Finals MVP. His reg stats will always be crazy for the next 3-4 years.

[kentatm]

Lebron could defend Bird, or contain him. But Bird would get thrown in the dust trying to guard Lebron. It would get really ugly.

Lebron >> Bird

:oldlol:

LeBron couldn't defend Dirk, Jason Terry, or JJ Barea in the 2011 Finals and now all the sudden he is going to lock down Bird?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[2010splash]

:oldlol:

LeBron couldn't defend Dirk, Jason Terry, or JJ Barea in the 2011 Finals and now all the sudden he is going to lock down Bird?

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Well, Dirk is a 7-footer. Much greater height advantage than Bird would have over LeBron (which would basically be none). Bird is slow, unathetic, had a horrible first step, and weaker than LeBron. It's not that far-fetched to think LeBron could contain him when he basically has every physical advantage imaginable and is an elite defender. Bird guarding LeBron on the other hand? God it would get ugly.

[Euroleague]

LOL!!!!:roll: :roll:

LeBron takes a big steaming dump all over prime Bird. Better scorer, better finisher, comparable 3-pt shooter (look at his percentage this year), better playoff performer, better ball handler, better passer, better stats, waaay better defender in every respect (help, man to man, post). He also led far worse teams to much more impressive records. Bird could never take the Cavs to league-leading regular season records.

LeBron will have probably ten 30+ PER seasons by the time his career is over. Bird has zero :applause:

You are retarded.

[2010splash]

It doesn't take into consideration different team strategies on offense and different rosters surrounding star players.Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Even Durant isn't all that ball dominant and he destroys Bird's career high PER at just age 24. Perhaps you are just making excuses for a player who, while one of the all time greats, is certainly nowhere near as good as you are making him out to be. And certainly is nowhere near as good as LeBron currently is. Oops. There goes your ball dominance = high PER, therefore PER = useless theory.


For your conclusion to be valid your eyes actually need to be connected to your brain. Bird could score 10 points and still completely dominate the game. How do I know? I've seen him do it. Eye test is a bitch.Good for him. So can LeBron. And he can do it on both ends. He can shut down the opposing team's best player and guard all 5 positions. Offense is only half the game... you ignore that half and what does Bird give you... jack sh-t.


The 61 win Celtics didn't have Parish and McHale and Archibald and Maxwell on their own were 2nd worst in the league "good." What Bird did would be like taking the last year's Pistons to the top of the conference and the conference finals this year.
Also, neither Parish nor McHale were HoF-ers when they joined the Celtics. McHale took a few years before he started contributing and Parish was a 17, 10 center of the 2nd worst tam in the league, the late 70's equivalent of Greg Monroe.
I never said they did. You said the season after that Bird led them to a title. I was pointing out how much more talented his 2nd year title team was compared to any of LeBron's teams up until Miami.


Not so much considering the trash Lebron had to compete against, as opposed to what Bird had to go through.
It certainly was better. Whether or not you want to believe it, the 80's (like any era) was filled with its share of trash teams. All elite teams beat up on the bottom dwellers to achieve impressive regular season records. So the competition argument holds no water. So again, we're back to square one: LeBron leading what proved to be a 19 win team to 66 and 61 wins is far more impressive than Bird leading a 29 win team to 61 wins.


You clearly did miss it. The following season Lebron took a 19 win team to 35 wins. Nowhere near as impressive as 61 and ECF.
Again, no... I did not. You said what Bird did in his 2nd season = more impressive than anything LeBron did, not what Bird did in his 2nd season = more impressive than what LeBron did in his 2nd season. Perhaps you can make the argument that what Bird did in his second year at age 24 was more impressive than what LeBron did in his second year at age 20, but that's not what you said. Simple math: taking 19 win team to 66 wins > taking 29 win team to 61 wins. Owned.


05-06 Lebron took 23 fga, that's the same as the highest volume shooters back then. How many shots per game you think he would get? 30? 40?
Yeah, sure, put him on the post-Gervin Spurs and he may rack up stats, but he also wouldn't win shit either. Put him on a 7-8 players deep team like most contenders were back then and there is no way he would average anything better, regardless of the pace.
So he can put monster stats on 1-man and 3-man deep teams, that's awesome!
Pure speculation on your part saying that he wouldn't win anything. How do you know? A guy who led Cleveland's trash to all-time level regular seasons would certainly lead whatever team he was on to plenty of success in the 80's.

And coincidentally, LeBron's 05-06 season is better than any of Bird's. So no, he wouldn't need 30-40 shots, but he'd clearly get more. And would certainly get more fastbreak and isolation opportunities, both situations suited to his strengths as a player. Pretty obvious that he would rape back then.

Dat pace.
And I have never seen Lebron hustle as much and as hard on defense as I've seen Bird do multiple times.
Worst post ever? Comparing Bird favorably to LeBron in anything related to defense is just grasping at straws. And even if it were true (which it isn't), it doesn't matter much since LeBron is much more effective and has a far greater impact on defense than Bird could ever dream of having.


The fact that Durant is not a multidimensional player? Whatever Durant is doing now I have already seen prime Dale Ellis do. And that's the biggest competition Lebron is facing right now.

Deranged fanboy delusion =/= reality.
Durant's career high PER > Bird's career high PER.

Durant's 65 TS% > Any of Bird's TS%.

When did Dale Ellis ever lead a team to the Finals at age 23?

Bird is closer to Durant than he is to LeBron.

[Rysio]

Durant's career high PER > Bird's career high PER.

more proof of per being a garbage stat. thanks breh. :cheers:

[2010splash]

more proof of per being a garbage stat. thanks breh. :cheers:
Or that Bird was kind of overrated and nostalgia has people in straight up denial.

We've seen plenty of players as good/dominant as Bird. Besides Jordan though and maybe Shaq, nobody has ever been as good as LeBron is right now. Truth.

[Rysio]

Or that Bird was kind of overrated and nostalgia has people in straight up denial.

We've seen plenty of players as good/dominant as Bird. Besides Jordan though and maybe Shaq, nobody has ever been as good as LeBron is right now. Truth.
yeah he's been so good and dominant that it only took him 10 years and cheat injury prone shortened season to win a ring. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[cavsfanatic]

Lebron surpassed Bird already. Lebron is the best sf of all time.

[cavsfanatic]

yeah he's been so good and dominant that it only took him 10 years and cheat injury prone shortened season to win a ring. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
:roll: Cheat? how? injury prone? you talking bout Bosh and Wade both being hurt? I hope you not talking about Avery Bradley lmao. D Rose? yea the Heat lost to them the year before with a healthy D Rose right? oh, they whacked them 4-1? damn... Oh yeah Okc was missing Eric Maynor! that's who you meant right? lol gtfoh

[Champ]

I'm a bird fan, but check 1988 ECF. With Rodman guarding him, Bird shot 35%.

Check the '87 ECF for a more accurate comparison.

Bone spurs in both of Bird's feet were beginning to set in during the 1988 playoffs, limiting his mobility and his ability to create space and get open looks.

We didn't realize it at the time, but that spring marked the beginning of the end for Bird. He was clearly a different player in those playoffs than the regular season.

[get these NETS]

I think 2 more rings and there's no question, regardless of any more mvps


Bird was my dude..and I rooted for the Celtics when I was young, but Bron took ymca team to the Finals...
went to finals twice with ONE other great player...and some also rans ..


also Bird's 3 straight mvps, to me, was marketing move by nba and sports writers..and wasn't a coincidence that nba ratings soared as Bird was the face of the league as the reigning mvp..


1 more ring and he surpasses Bird

[poido123]

This thread. :roll:

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.

[poido123]

Lebron surpassed Bird already. Lebron is the best sf of all time.

:no:

[2010splash]

This thread. :roll:

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.
:oldlol: at you and any other nostalgic overraters of 80's players. Bird could never in his wildest dreams lead this Heat team to the title. When has Bird led a team with a 16/5/5 49.8 TS% #2 option, a 12/7/2 52.4 TS% #3 option and one of the worst rebounding teams to a title?

Imagine Bird trying to guard a Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Paul George, etc. He'd get shat on so badly that they'd have to put him on someone else. The difference between LeBron and Bird is that LeBron locks down the other team's best player. Bird would get embarrassed by them.

LeBron has already surpassed Bird and is the #1 SF ever. Bird would tell you this himself.

[Micku]

:oldlol: at you and any other nostalgic overraters of 80's players. Bird could never in his wildest dreams lead this Heat team to the title. When has Bird led a team with a 16/5/5 49.8 TS% #2 option, a 12/7/2 52.4 TS% #3 option and one of the worst rebounding teams to a title?

Imagine Bird trying to guard a Tony Parker, Derrick Rose, Paul George, etc. He'd get shat on so badly that they'd have to put him on someone else. The difference between LeBron and Bird is that LeBron locks down the other team's best player. Bird would get embarrassed by them.

LeBron has already surpassed Bird and is the #1 SF ever. Bird would tell you this himself.

First, you are talking about a player who turned a 29 win team to a 61 win team in his rookie year and won the title next year.

Second, he face against better players than Paul George with James Worthy, Dominique Wilkins, Barkley, Dr. J, Bernard King, and Adrian Dantley. The SF in the 80s were stacked with talent. Granted, he didn't always guard them because they would save him on offense, but he hold his own.

But I do think LeBron accomplishments puts him in discussion on Bird's level. You can argue that he is better due to his defense.

On offense tho, I prefer Bird. Because he played off the ball and could still give his teammates great looks with his passing skills. And he has a better post game. LeBron is more of a point guard, but there are just some bad offense with the Heat sometimes due to his ball dominant and they cannot maximize their potential with that. Granted it could work obviously, but the offense is just standing around too much. You could blame it on the coach and because of LBJ lack of versatility on offense that Bird had.

With that said, due to the LBJ athleticism, it'll probably make him harder to stop. But the way Bird play, he'll maximize your team's talent better than LeBron will IMO.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

This thread. :roll:

And all the other Lebron vs Alltime great threads.

Too many Bieber's on this site.

Biebers >>>> Pedos