Bold Prediction: Tony Parkers gets MVP this year

[imnew09]

I feel like Tony Parkers is taking it this year, or is it just me?

[mentallooser]

Just you. He may be higher up in the voting that usual, he may even deserve it in some ways, but he won't win MVP.

[Fudge]

Just you.

[TheMarkMadsen]

who knows, we still have another entire half of a season to play & he may possibly lead his team to the best record in the NBA

[NumberSix]

Pfff. Who knows. They gave it to Derrick Rose that one year. Anything can happen.

[The Choken One]

Pfff. Who knows. They gave it to Derrick Rose that one year. Anything can happen.
http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/047/5d3/618/resized/derricklol-meme-generator-lol-why-u-mad-tho-b18e2c.jpg?1313789636.jpg

What is this madness? Why isn't my picture up. :(

[Whoah10115]

He deserves 1st Team All-NBA...just like last year...but even more this year than he did last year.


It'd be cool if went to Paul...not because he should win but because he had a legit shout in 2008 and I think that Wade should have beaten Lebron in 2009. That would even it out a bit.

[9512]

They gave it to Steve Nash twice so why wouldn't Tony Parker get it too?

[fsvr54]

Popovich is more important than any player on the team.

[Clippersfan86]

He deserves 1st Team All-NBA...just like last year...but even more this year than he did last year.


It'd be cool if went to Paul...not because he should win but because he had a legit shout in 2008 and I think that Wade should have beaten Lebron in 2009. That would even it out a bit.

ZERO case over Paul. Okay they may finish with a couple games edge in the standings but CP3's all around stats and impact are significantly greater. We saw this month how without CP3 the Clippers were barely a .500 team. With Billups healthy they would be a 7 seed probably minus CP3. With him they could be the most complete team in the NBA and are at worst a top 3 or 4 team. Tony Parker isn't that big of a difference for the Spurs.


MVP is supposed to be the most valuable player to his team, not the 2nd best player on the team with the best record.

[Whoah10115]

ZERO case over Paul. Okay they may finish with a couple games edge in the standings but CP3's all around stats and impact are significantly greater. We saw this month how without CP3 the Clippers were barely a .500 team. With Billups healthy they would be a 7 seed probably minus CP3. With him they could be the most complete team in the NBA and are at worst a top 3 or 4 team. Tony Parker isn't that big of a difference for the Spurs.


MVP is supposed to be the most valuable player to his team, not the 2nd best player on the team with the best record.


2nd best player? What have you been smoking? Tony Parker is the Spurs' best and most valuable player, case closed.


And Paul really has no case over him. First of all, he's missed 12 games. Parker has missed 3. So Paul better be playing twice as well. He's not. Parker shoots better percentages and scores a good deal more. Paul is the better playmaker and passer and defender but Parker is running that system better. Parker's scoring comes within that offense and his attacking the rim is the centerpiece of their offense. He does what he wants and he's separating himself more and more with each game.


Had Paul not been injured, then who knows? But he was and right now it shouldn't be an argument.


Parker is playing better than Paul. He did last year too, but I understand the value of what Paul did last year. Bryant should have made the 2nd Team last year. Parker has been even better this season. He's been the best guard in the NBA.

[Nick Young]

I think he deserves an MVP and is the #1 PG in the league and has been for the past 3 seasons BUT Lebron will get it the media is on his nuts harder then ever before this year.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Unless Lebron and Durant both get sniped there really isn't even a chance.

[Clippersfan86]

2nd best player? What have you been smoking? Tony Parker is the Spurs' best and most valuable player, case closed.


And Paul really has no case over him. First of all, he's missed 12 games. Parker has missed 3. So Paul better be playing twice as well. He's not. Parker shoots better percentages and scores a good deal more. Paul is the better playmaker and passer and defender but Parker is running that system better. Parker's scoring comes within that offense and his attacking the rim is the centerpiece of their offense. He does what he wants and he's separating himself more and more with each game.


Had Paul not been injured, then who knows? But he was and right now it shouldn't be an argument.


Parker is playing better than Paul. He did last year too, but I understand the value of what Paul did last year. Bryant should have made the 2nd Team last year. Parker has been even better this season. He's been the best guard in the NBA.

Duncan has been the Spurs best player this year and highest impact player this year IMO. Hell some have taken to say he's been the best bigman in the game. I have yet to hear a single person NOT call Chris Paul the best PG this year in the NBA. Chris Paul has been a better player than Tony Parker every single year of his career.

21 ppg, 7.5 apg, 3 rpg for Parker in 33 minutes.

17 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3 apg, 3 bpg in just 30 minutes a game for Duncan as the team's defensive anchor.

Both have identical win shares and similar impact metrics but Duncan again has more value to the success of the Spurs due to his defense.

Missing 12 games doesn't disqualify you from an MVP race and Paul's absence proved exactly why he's the true MVP of the league. Take Parker off the Spurs and they are just fine. Take CP3 off the Clippers and they fell apart bad DESPITE having one of the best backup PG's.

Paul is a better player, is more important to his team than Parker... therefor he's a much stronger MVP candidate. The teams are so close record wise that that's negligible.

[Whoah10115]

They gave it to Steve Nash twice so why wouldn't Tony Parker get it too?


Makes sense.

[Clippersfan86]

Nonetheless it's Lebron's to lose. Durant was my favorite a month ago but this month Lebron pretty much put the award in the bag with his GOAT caliber play. Just don't tell me Parker>CP3 in the MVP race :facepalm

[BuffaloBill]

Tony Parker deserves 1st team All-NBA, but I doubt he'll get it. It's a popularity contest really. And everyone knows players like Kobe, CP3, Wade, and Westbrook are more popular than Parker.

[Whoah10115]

Duncan has been the Spurs best player this year and highest impact player this year IMO. Hell some have taken to say he's been the best bigman in the game. I have yet to hear a single person NOT call Chris Paul the best PG this year in the NBA. Chris Paul has been a better player than Tony Parker every single year of his career.

21 ppg, 7.5 apg, 3 rpg for Parker in 33 minutes.

17 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3 apg, 3 bpg in just 30 minutes a game for Duncan as the team's defensive anchor.

Both have identical win shares and similar impact metrics but Duncan again has more value to the success of the Spurs due to his defense.

Missing 12 games doesn't disqualify you from an MVP race and Paul's absence proved exactly why he's the true MVP of the league. Take Parker off the Spurs and they are just fine. Take CP3 off the Clippers and they fell apart bad DESPITE having one of the best backup PG's.

Paul is a better player, is more important to his team than Parker... therefor he's a much stronger MVP candidate. The teams are so close record wise that that's negligible.



Yea, but there's no argument for Duncan. I'm not trying to be all sure of my opinion, but there is no argument. It's like someone trying to argue Griffin on your team. There's no argument. Parker has been better than Duncan every step of the way. Duncan is the beneficiary of Parker much more than Parker is of Duncan. He's an anchor but he's not Gasol or Noah this year. Parker is their #1 playmaker and he runs their offense. Duncan still gets some assists abut the offense doesn't begin to go thru him. It all goes thru Parker. He's their guy throughout the game. He's their guy down the stretch of games. When Manu is on the floor with Parker, Duncan becomes the 3rd guy.


And, just as with Paul, Duncan has missed 12 games. You say that Parker is not that important to the Spurs...not to suggest this about Duncan, but the Spurs are 10-2 without him. BTW, one of those losses is when the big 3 were out, along with Danny Green, in Miami.


By your argument, that says a lot (in comparison) about his impact on the Spurs.


It's not close. And again, Paul could have an argument over Parker if he was playing every game. But he's missed 12 and that makes it just about impossible to argue him over Parker. The Clippers' record without Paul is indicative of how important he is to the Clippers. Watching the games, it actually tells as much of the story as a guy not playing can tell. But it doesn't (at least not rightfully) strengthen his argument for MVP. The fact is he hasn't been there to help for those 12 games.


Kenny Smith says Parker is the 3rd best player in the NBA this year. Despite not picking him for the all-star team, Charles has talked about Parker being even better this year...and last year Barkley had him as the 3rd best player in the NBA. And Chuck, despite his dislike for our teams, is as good an analyst as there is. There have been people talking about Parker having the better season. No one argues Parker being a better player than Paul. Paul is the best PG in basketball.


12 games doesn't disqualify you...but it's 12 games so far. So far that matters a lot. You couldn't argue that Paul is playing way better than Parker. So 12 games is a big deal and an obstacle for Paul to ovecome.


And again, Duncan is only more valuable to the Spurs in that he is Tim Duncan and he's the heart of the team. On the floor there is no argument for him being as important, as valuable, for having the impact that Parker has. Parker is much better, at this point.

[Clippersfan86]

Yea, but there's no argument for Duncan. I'm not trying to be all sure of my opinion, but there is no argument. It's like someone trying to argue Griffin on your team. There's no argument. Parker has been better than Duncan every step of the way. Duncan is the beneficiary of Parker much more than Parker is of Duncan. He's an anchor but he's not Gasol or Noah this year. Parker is their #1 playmaker and he runs their offense. Duncan still gets some assists abut the offense doesn't begin to go thru him. It all goes thru Parker. He's their guy throughout the game. He's their guy down the stretch of games. When Manu is on the floor with Parker, Duncan becomes the 3rd guy.


And, just as with Paul, Duncan has missed 12 games. You say that Parker is not that important to the Spurs...not to suggest this about Duncan, but the Spurs are 10-2 without him.


It's not close. And again, Paul could have an argument over Parker if he was playing every game. But he's missed 12 and that makes it just about impossible to argue him over Parker.


Kenny Smith says Parker is the 3rd best player in the NBA this year. Despite not picking him for the all-star team, Charles has talked about Parker being even better this year...and last year Barkley had him as the 3rd best player in the NBA. And Chuck, despite his dislike for our teams, is as good an analyst as there is. There have been people talking about Parker having the better season. No one argues Parker being a better player than Paul. Paul is the best PG in basketball.


12 games doesn't disqualify you...but it's 12 games so far. So far that matters a lot. You couldn't argue that Paul is playing way better than Parker. So 12 games is a big deal.


And again, Duncan is only more valuable to the Spurs in that he is Tim Duncan and he's the heart of the team. On the floor there is no argument for him being as important, as valuable, for having the impact that Parker has. Parker is much better, at this point.

So let me verify. CP3 was 3rd in the MVP race all year long.. misses 12 games and now Parker>>>>>>CP3 in the MVP race with CP3 having zero case just because he missed games, although he's still eligible? :biggums: ... just making sure I'm not misunderstanding you. Using Kenny and Charles as your argument is about the most ignorant thing you can do considering they don't know shit about basketball. Everything they say is outdated and wrong for the most part and you should know that by now.

This isn't mentioning that the Clippers were a .500 team without CP3 and a 32-9 team WITH CP3 at the top of the NBA. What does "most valuable" mean in terms of sports to you? Define it.

[Clippersfan86]

Personally the way I've always defined "MVP" is a combination of 3 things in this order priority wise.


1. How valuable you are to your team. (Steve Nash type MVP).

2. Individual talent/stats/superiority over all other players at your position, or being a top 5 player at the least in the NBA (Lebron James type MVP).

3. Being the best player on the team with a top 3 seed (Derrick Rose type MVP).


Tony Parker only meets one criteria and that's being on a top 3 team. He's not a top 5 player and the Spurs are just fine without him if need be. He doesn't have the stats of a D Rose, nor the impact on his team that the type 1 guys like Nash, CP3 have. Chris Paul on the other hand is the number 1 most valuable player to his team. Without him the Clippers offense and defense goes to shit. Chris Paul is also the 3rd best player in the game this year. Not to mention the Clippers still have a shot at a top 3 record and are a half game back of Miami right now of having that top 3 record, 1.5 games back of OKC, 4 games back of the Spurs.

CP3 meets all 3 criteria.

[Smoke117]

Not gonna happen.

[brandonislegend]

If Parker doesn't make all NBA 1st team than there's some ****ed up popularity shit going on. But I wouldn't be surprised, Kobe hasn't deserved the first team defense recently, its a shame they will probably put someone else instead of Parker.

LeBron deserves MVP though.

[Whoah10115]

So let me verify. CP3 was 3rd in the MVP race all year long.. misses 12 games and now Parker>>>>>>CP3 in the MVP race with CP3 having zero case just because he missed games, although he's still eligible? :biggums: ... just making sure I'm not misunderstanding you. Using Kenny and Charles as your argument is about the most ignorant thing you can do considering they don't know shit about basketball. Everything they say is outdated and wrong for the most part and you should know that by now.

This isn't mentioning that the Clippers were a .500 team without CP3 and a 32-9 team WITH CP3 at the top of the NBA. What does "most valuable" mean in terms of sports to you? Define it.



Honestly, you just killed yourself this entire post.


First thing, so that we don't have to go back to it. You said you haven't heard anyone argue for Parker. I mentioned two guys. And you're stupid if you think they don't know shit about basketball. There are no analysts who know the game any better. And that's for fact. Don't be salty because of the Clipper skepticism. I'm not and I'm a Knicks fan.


Now, getting to it. The reason you're killing yourself here is because I didn't say any of that. Paul has not been #3 all year. Melo was up there for much of the year and you know that. More importantly, I have never had Paul at #3. I'd take him over any Western Conference guy but he hasn't been one of the 3 best players in the league this season, at any point. At least not for me. Wrong or not, I've never argued him that high. You don't know where I had him ranked or how high I had Parker ranked. The way you're talking, you would think I had Paul at #3 and Parker at #10 and then flipped.


Then you say that Paul misses 12 games and suddenly Parker is better...you say misses 12 games as if you're saying he missed 12 shots. 12 is a big enough number to affect, at this point in the season, the guy's MVP stock (or at least my personal opinion of it).


I thought Parker was better for most of the year. Then Paul missed a lot of games. I have no problem ranking Parker ahead of Paul for the year, even without missed games. With them, it's not even close to me. If you think Paul has been better then that's fine, but the impact of 12 games warrants attention. We're not talking about value, in essence. You know very well that level of play and time actually on the court (not in terms of minutes but games) are obviously important.

[Clippersfan86]

You thought Parker was a better player than CP3 most this year :lol ? Even worse than what I originally had you down for. As for Melo vs CP3 they definitely are debatable at 3 vs 4, bottom line is on all MVP boards I saw this year CP3 was number 3. I didn't say 12 games missed doesn't close the gap some but over an 82 game season, GTFO.

I think Parker is somewhere around 5 or 6 on the MVP board. Which is still fantastic and he's having a year worth praising. Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Melo are the top 4 and have been all year. You saying Barkley and Kenny are knowledgeable is downright laughable, especially after admitting you know the garbage they spew about the Knicks. Both guys constantly repeat outdated information about teams, have strong bias against Clippers+Knicks, strong favoritism towards Grizzlies+Heat etc.

I don't give a rats ass if they played or not, they fail to do a good job staying up on current, updated facts. If you want to hear knowledge listen to guys like Steve Smith or Greg Anthony who I have yet to hear spew bullshit like Kenny and Barkley. Not saying they are never wrong but when they talk about each team you can tell they are far, far... far more up to date and aren't talking out of their asses. The TNT and ESPN crews have become straight trash in terms of their knowledge of the game. NBA TV guys never give such failure analysis that I've seen.

[brandonislegend]

Honestly, you just killed yourself this entire post.


First thing, so that we don't have to go back to it. You said you haven't heard anyone argue for Parker. I mentioned two guys. And you're stupid if you think they don't know shit about basketball. There are no analysts who know the game any better. And that's for fact. Don't be salty because of the Clipper skepticism. I'm not and I'm a Knicks fan.


Now, getting to it. The reason you're killing yourself here is because I didn't say any of that. Paul has not been #3 all year. Melo was up there for much of the year and you know that. More importantly, I have never had Paul at #3. I'd take him over any Western Conference guy but he hasn't been one of the 3 best players in the league this season, at any point. At least not for me. Wrong or not, I've never argued him that high. You don't know where I had him ranked or how high I had Parker ranked. The way you're talking, you would think I had Paul at #3 and Parker at #10 and then flipped.


Then you say that Paul misses 12 games and suddenly Parker is better...you say misses 12 games as if you're saying he missed 12 shots. 12 is a big enough number to affect, at this point in the season, the guy's MVP stock (or at least my personal opinion of it).


I thought Parker was better for most of the year. Then Paul missed a lot of games. I have no problem ranking Parker ahead of Paul for the year, even without missed games. With them, it's not even close to me. If you think Paul has been better then that's fine, but the impact of 12 games warrants attention. We're not talking about value, in essence. You know very well that level of play and time actually on the court (not in terms of minutes but games) are obviously important.
I have DelusionalFan86 on ignore but judging by your quote I can picture him throwing a bitch fit real soon.:lol

[Whoah10115]

You thought Parker was a better player than CP3 most this year :lol ? Even worse than what I originally had you down for. As for Melo vs CP3 they definitely are debatable at 3 vs 4, bottom line is on all MVP boards I saw this year CP3 was number 3. I didn't say 12 games missed doesn't close the gap some but over an 82 game season, GTFO.

I think Parker is somewhere around 5 or 6 on the MVP board. Which is still fantastic and he's having a year worth praising. Lebron, Durant, CP3 and Melo are the top 4 and have been all year. You saying Barkley and Kenny are knowledgeable is downright laughable, especially after admitting you know the garbage they spew about the Knicks. Both guys constantly repeat outdated information about teams, have strong bias against Clippers+Knicks, strong favoritism towards Grizzlies+Heat etc.

I don't give a rats ass if they played or not, they fail to do a good job staying up on current, updated facts. If you want to hear knowledge listen to guys like Steve Smith or Greg Anthony who I have yet to hear spew bullshit like Kenny and Barkley. Not saying they are never wrong but when they talk about each team you can tell they are far, far... far more up to date and aren't talking out of their asses. The TNT and ESPN crews have become straight trash in terms of their knowledge of the game. NBA TV guys never give such failure analysis that I've seen.



I promise you couldn't be any more wrong on Barkley and Smith. It's stupid for you to think that way. Didn't Barkley predict Dallas winning? How many decades ago was this? Didn't he call all that LeBron had to do for the Heat to win last year? He doesn't give you legitimate basketball stuff?


What do you want? A guy to sit there and Dennis Scott you about shit than anybody can see? If you listen to them talk and you don't get anything out of it, then you're only limiting yourself in what you can learn. Every time they talk about anything, they go into it and they give you shit worth hearing and considering. They talk BASKETBALL and not just numbers and predictions. And they're usually still pretty solid with the latter, especially Charles.


The worst you could say about his bias is that he sticks to something a little too long...all that really means is he wants to see it and he's not down for predicting what will happen. And when he's wrong, he's usually right about something.


And on the 12 games bit...you're saying over 82 games blah blah. Well sure, over 82 games. You want me to project his missed time over 82 games? No, because who knows what happens the rest of the year. I said, repeatedly, to this point in the season. To this point in the season, he's missed more than 20% of the season. It's relevant for now. We'll see how it plays out over a full schedule. As long as he plays 70 games (which he's at now) then the games missed isn't too big a deal. But, just like either one could go up or down the rest of the year, guys can miss time the rest of the year. Paul could miss even more games, and Parker could end up missing more games than Paul does. Anything can happen. But, right now, Parker has certainly been better. And believe me, there's nothing ridiculous in arguing that Parker has been better while they've been on the court. It could even be wrong, but not ridiculous.

[DCL]

he might get a couple votes here and there, but me thinks lebron is winning this sh!t by a landslide.

[Clippersfan86]

I promise you couldn't be any more wrong on Barkley and Smith. It's stupid for you to think that way. Didn't Barkley predict Dallas winning? How many decades ago was this? Didn't he call all that LeBron had to do for the Heat to win last year? He doesn't give you legitimate basketball stuff?


What do you want? A guy to sit there and Dennis Scott you about shit than anybody can see? If you listen to them talk and you don't get anything out of it, then you're only limiting yourself in what you can learn. Every time they talk about anything, they go into it and they give you shit worth hearing and considering. They talk BASKETBALL and not just numbers and predictions. And they're usually still pretty solid with the latter, especially Charles.


The worst you could say about his bias is that he sticks to something a little too long...all that really means is he wants to see it and he's not down for predicting what will happen. And when he's wrong, he's usually right about something.

You're seriously dense if you don't know the difference between prediction and analysis. I never said Barkley or Smith are bad with predictions necessarily. Both I'm sure have predicted champions etc but that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with sound analysis. When it comes to actually breaking down teams and what their strengths and weaknesses are, they usually fail horribly and as a Clippers and Knicks fan we would know this first hand.

So are you indeed saying that as a player this year Tony Parker is a better PG/player than Chris Paul? It sounds to me like you said that. I'd like to verify this before I get into actual facts to destroy this idea.

[Whoah10115]

I have DelusionalFan86 on ignore but judging by your quote I can picture him throwing a bitch fit real soon.:lol


You two have your ongoing thing and I think you both go over the top too much. But, in general, you're both good posters. I think he's good but is getting carried away here.


It's like you and your hatred for Westbrook...even I never disliked him that much lol.

[andremiller07]

Hes not a big enough name in the NBA for him to win MVP and hes not getting anywhere near the hype Nash got when he won his ones (being a lesser kinda name before winning his MVPs) on top of that Lebron has gone god mode.

Parker has this season been the best and most consistant PG and hes easily been the Spurs #1 player since they switched there style 2-3 years ago to more up tempo.

[Whoah10115]

You're seriously dense if you don't know the difference between prediction and analysis. I never said Barkley or Smith are bad with predictions necessarily. Both I'm sure have predicted champions etc but that has NOTHING AT ALL to do with sound analysis. When it comes to actually breaking down teams and what their strengths and weaknesses are, they usually fail horribly and as a Clippers and Knicks fan we would know this first hand.

So are you indeed saying that as a player this year Tony Parker is a better PG/player than Chris Paul? It sounds to me like you said that. I'd like to verify this before I get into actual facts to destroy this idea.



To answer the second thing: I can see very clearly, when Paul busts Parker's ass in San Antonio, that Chris Paul is the best PG in the NBA. Even with all the thoughts I've had about Nash and him being the same thing, I can see Paul firmly settling himself in his prime. It's like Durant and James. LeBron probably passed Durant a week ago, but he's been behind Durant for most of the year (for me) and so it takes a minute to settle in. Obviously, kicking his ass last night kind of settles it for now, as far as where they are right now. But even then, even tho LeBron hasn't played as well as he did last year, I can see he's getting better as a player. And even when I argued Durant over James, I made clear in every thread that it's ridiculous for anyone to suggest that Durant is even CLOSE to LeBron. He's not anywhere near.


Parker has given a better performance, from beginning to end, until right now. Do I even think he'll have a better season by the end of the year? Not sure. I think Parker has clearly been the most impressive until this point. But Paul is better and I think the Clippers would beat the Spurs and I think they would beat the Thunder...and I think Paul will be the biggest reason why. So, it's hard to predict that he won't get even better as the season progresses. It doesn't change what I think up until now.


Now, onto the TNT guys...their analysis is better than their predictions. They know what they're talking about. They sit there and find things to talk about and their points involve actual critical basketball thinking. And their analysis is always spot on. Sometimes they skip around and forget certain things they said before. Sometimes they get a little caught up...yet, they do a very good job of not getting ahead of themselves and they talk basketball. They don't do the coach thing and show you a whatever play. They find things in players' games and they're almost always right about everything...and they force you to think, if you pay attention and consider what they're bringing up.

[Clippersfan86]

Okay you just edited in that you ARE indeed saying Parker is a better player than Paul this year, which weakens your argument further. If you were to say that you feel Parker is more deserving for MVP, although still ridiculous... it's nowhere near as crazy as to say in general Tony Parker is a better player than Chris Paul this year.

Clippers have been THE best team in the NBA with Chris Paul in the lineup with an overall record of 32-9. Since he's been back they lost the first game to Miami and blew their next 4 opponents out by an average of 18 ppg with Paul playing INSANE.



Raw stats:

Chris Paul: 16.6 ppg, 9.6 apg, 2.6 spg, 3.5 rpg. 48 percent shooting from the field, 35 percent from deep.

Tony Parker: 21 ppg, 7.5 apg, 1 spg, 3 rpg. 53.5 percent shooting from the field, 39 percent from deep.

*3 point shooting is a bit misleading because Paul takes 4 a game, Parker takes 1



Advanced stats/Metrics:


PER: Chris Paul 27, Tony Parker 24.5.


Offensive rating: Chris Paul 128, Tony Parker 118.


Defensive stats: It's a blood path with Chris Paul being twice the defender in every single metric imaginable, no reason to post anything.


WS/48: Chris Paul is the NBA's leader in win shares rate at a career high, mind blowing .297 which is one of the best in NBA history. Tony Parker is very far behind at .235


Usage rates: To achieve these numbers Chris Paul is surprisingly using far less possessions than Tony Parker. Basically he's doing more with a lot less time on the ball.


TS%: Both are at an identical 59.7 percent.


Assist rate: Chris Paul assists on 47 percent of his teams buckets, Parker on 40 percent.



I literally can't find ANYTHING that tells me Parker is a better player. Not to mention almost anybody I've spoken to either on a forum or in person this year has said CP3 WASN'T the best PG in the NBA.



Chris Paul is the best offensive PG in the game based on not only his production alone but what he gets out of others and it's not even close. His career offensive rating is at the top of the all time list did you know that?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

That includes the freaking ABA. Go ahead and look for Tony Parker on that list.



Defensively? A blood bath. Chris Paul is better in every aspect of defense not even close.


Rebounding? Chris Paul has always been a better rebounder.


Passing? Chris Paul has always been a significantly better passer and top 3 playmaker every year, Parker is a solid playmaker/passer at best.


The only reason his raw PPG is less is because he attempts less shots, it's that simple.

[Whoah10115]

Okay you just edited in that you ARE indeed saying Parker is a better player than Paul this year, which weakens your argument further. If you were to say that you feel Parker is more deserving for MVP, although still ridiculous... it's nowhere near as idiotic as to say in general Tony Parker is a better player than Chris Paul.

Clippers have been THE best team in the NBA with Chris Paul in the lineup with an overall record of 32-9. Since he's been back they lost the first game to Miami and blew their next 4 opponents out by an average of 18 ppg with Paul playing INSANE.



Raw stats:

Chris Paul: 16.6 ppg, 9.6 apg, 2.6 spg, 3.5 rpg. 48 percent shooting from the field, 35 percent from deep.

Tony Parker: 21 ppg, 7.5 apg, 1 spg, 3 rpg. 53.5 percent shooting from the field, 39 percent from deep.

*3 point shooting is a bit misleading because Paul takes 4 a game, Parker takes 1



Advanced stats/Metrics:


PER: Chris Paul 27, Tony Parker 24.5.


Offensive rating: Chris Paul 128, Tony Parker 118.


Defensive stats: It's a blood path with Chris Paul being twice the defender in every single metric imaginable, no reason to post anything.


WS/48: Chris Paul is the NBA's leader in win shares rate at a career high, mind blowing .297 which is one of the best in NBA history. Tony Parker is very far behind at .235


Usage rates: To achieve these numbers Chris Paul is surprisingly using far less possessions than Tony Parker. Basically he's doing more with a lot less time on the ball.


TS%: Both are at an identical 59.7 percent.


Assist rate: Chris Paul assists on 47 percent of his teams buckets, Parker on 40 percent.



I literally can't find ANYTHING that tells me Parker is a better player. Not to mention almost anybody I've spoken to either on a forum or in person this year has said CP3 WASN'T the best PG in the NBA.



Chris Paul is the best offensive PG in the game based on not only his production alone but what he gets out of others and it's not even close. His career offensive rating is at the top of the all time list did you know that?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

That includes the freaking ABA. Go ahead and look for Tony Parker on that list.



Defensively? A blood bath. Chris Paul is better in every aspect of defense not even close.


Rebounding? Chris Paul has always been a better rebounder.


Passing? Chris Paul has always been a significantly better passer and top 3 playmaker every year, Parker is a solid playmaker/passer at best.


The only reason his raw PPG is less is because he attempts less shots, it's that simple.



What are you talking about? I edited to say what? I said Chris Paul is the better player. I never argued anything otherwise. I said Parker was having the best season. I've said that throughout the season and I'm saying it now. What did I edit?


They're almost identical in terms of shots per attempt. Paul is shooting better from the FT line and Parker is shooting better from the field and from 3. To say one shoots more and therefore he scores more is oversimplifying and not accurate. Parker is a better scorer this season. He not only scores more, he scores more freely. Their offense is predicated on him penetrating and creating offense that way. I acknowledged all the things that Paul does better than Parker. I even acknowledged what he's done better this season. But Parker has been the better scorer, at that efficiency, and has run their offense better, in my opinion. Maybe you could plug just anyone in there (I don't believe that) but he's been in there and the way he's played has been eye-catching. It's not because he's flashy, but his execution of that offense is incredible this season.


And again, I never said Parker was better, nor did I edit anything.

[Clippersfan86]

Buddy... it's the same thing. Chris Paul is having a better individual season than Parker, not debatable AND is the better player as well as PG. The only case Parker has is that his team is a little better record wise but that should be negligible considering how close the teams are.

Tony Parker is a better volume scorer and is very efficient offensively this year. LOL at Parker EVER running an offense better than Chris Paul.

[Whoah10115]

Buddy... it's the same thing. Chris Paul is having a better individual season than Parker, not debatable AND is the better player as well as PG. The only case Parker has is that his team is a little better record wise but that should be negligible considering how close the teams are.



Before this random ass 11 game win streak I had Parker ahead. So I don't care about the record.


I know you like to tell me that I'm sometimes too arrogant about something being right, but you're doing the same thing here and it's obviously very wrong. It's very debatable. A lot of people debate it. With the games missed, it's easily debatable. You're the only one who thinks it isn't.


That, alone, does not make you wrong. But you're wrong.



I mean...how is it the same thing? It's not the same thing.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron has it on Lock and Parker missing games and probably more at some point don't help. Sorry Parker is a good player but not the MVP of NBA.

[Clippersfan86]

Before this random ass 11 game win streak I had Parker ahead. So I don't care about the record.


I know you like to tell me that I'm sometimes too arrogant about something being right, but you're doing the same thing here and it's obviously very wrong. It's very debatable. A lot of people debate it. With the games missed, it's easily debatable. You're the only one who thinks it isn't.


That, alone, does not make you wrong. But you're wrong.



I mean...how is it the same thing? It's not the same thing.

When something is logical and debatable I don't call people out. To say Parker>CP3 this season though is a pretty serious claim. If you said he's YOUR personal MVP fine. Just don't pass it like he's a better player this year because he's not on CP3's level AT ALL. Okay scores an extra 4 ppg or w/e. Also assists less, is a much worse defender in comparison, worse rebounder and doesn't have the impact on either end of the floor Paul does.

Paul is a maestro who runs an entire system on both ends and when you take him away the troops fall apart. Tony Parker on the other hand is just a piece of an already great system that succeeds with or without him. You don't seem to be understanding that.


Make a new thread about who's the better PG THIS YEAR Chris Paul or Tony Parker. After the thread goes on long enough we will tally up the votes and the loser wears an avy for a month. The reason it's up to you to make the thread is because trolls see my name and derail threads. If you make the thread, it may keep things calmer.

[Whoah10115]

When something is logical and debatable I don't call people out. To say Parker>CP3 this season though is a pretty serious claim. If you said he's YOUR personal MVP fine. Just don't pass it like he's a better player this year because he's not on CP3's level AT ALL. Okay scores an extra 4 ppg or w/e. Also assists less, is a much worse defender in comparison, worse rebounder and doesn't have the impact on either end of the floor Paul does.

Paul is a maestro who runs an entire system on both ends and when you take him away the troops fall apart. Tony Parker on the other hand is just a piece of an already great system that succeeds with or without him. You don't seem to be understanding that.


Make a new thread about who's the better PG THIS YEAR Chris Paul or Tony Parker. After the thread goes on long enough we will tally up the votes and the loser wears an avy for a month. The reason it's up to you to make the thread is because trolls see my name and derail threads. If you make the thread, it may keep things calmer.


Well, I decide the winner so he's only my choice. And not as MVP, but ahead of Paul.


I know what Paul is. But Parker is not on a team that succeeds with or without him. He was the best PG in the playoffs last year. The only advantage I could give to Westbrook was that he got to the Finals and was easily OKC's best player.

[Clippersfan86]

Well, I decide the winner so he's only my choice. And not as MVP, but ahead of Paul.


I know what Paul is. But Parker is not on a team that succeeds with or without him. He was the best PG in the playoffs last year. The only advantage I could give to Westbrook was that he got to the Finals and was easily OKC's best player.

Based on what? Let's go over the games Parker has missed this year.

Spurs vs Bulls: Spurs win by 14 despite no Parker (or Duncan).

Spurs vs Heat: Lose by just 5 despite no "Big 3" including Parker.

Spurs vs Blazers: Win by 3 despite no Parker.


So they are 2-1 this year without him and anybody who knows basketball knows the Spurs system makes everybody thrive. The one loss was down to the wire vs the defending champs. They can line up a group of D League players and still win games, because they are that well coached and the system is that spectacular.

In other words NOTHING has suggested that the Spurs NEED Parker. Go make a thread asking if Parker or CP3 is the better player or PG this year (wording is up to you). Let's get a bet going.

[Whoah10115]

Based on what? Let's go over the games Parker has missed this year.

Spurs vs Bulls: Spurs win by 14 despite no Parker (or Duncan).

Spurs vs Heat: Lose by just 5 despite no "Big 3" including Parker.

Spurs vs Blazers: Win by 3 despite no Parker.


So they are 3-0 this year without him and anybody who knows basketball knows the Spurs system makes everybody thrive. They can line up a group of D League players and still win games, because they are that well coached and the system is that spectacular.

In other words NOTHING has suggested that the Spurs NEED Parker. Go make a thread asking if Parker or CP3 is the better player or PG this year (wording is up to you). Let's get a bet going.



But I know who the best PG is...what's the point in asking that when the answer is obvious? And, I never said that Parker would place ahead of Paul. I said it's been a topic that people have debated this season, whereas you said it wasn't debatable. And if you look back, you'll see that's exactly what I've been saying.


And I'll say it, regardless of what other people think.


And, if they lost to Miami, how are they 3-0? They're 2-1. Hell, that's a worse win percentage than they have with him, if you wanna be technical. Which I imagine is what you're doing, as you're using a THREE game sample. Three games.


If you really think they could drop in solid PG in and get the same results, then you be crazy. That's obviously not true.


They are legitimate contenders for a title and they wouldn't be without Parker playing the way he is. You can't drop Deron playing the way Deron currently is and get the same results. Pop would have to motivate Deron to play better...but then again, that's a whole other discussion. How Parker is actually doing is the issue and he's playing like an elite player. Elite players are never anything but essential.

[Clippersfan86]

What you're arguing though is pretty irrelevant. No shit Parker is a fantastic player and the Spurs would be hurt some without him. My point was he's far less important to the Spurs than CP3 is to the Clippers. CP3 also has better all around stats and impact. So the only grounds anybody would have to place Parker above Paul THIS YEAR or any other year would be team record, which as I said is pretty negligible.

I called Parker the 5 or 6 in the MVP race so It's not me disrespecting him. It's just that Lebron, KD, CP3 and Melo have all been clearly better players and more MVP worthy than Parker, so by default he should be no higher than 5.

[brandonislegend]

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html there's some opinions, either way

Tony Parker > CP3 for the first half, lets see what happens the second half

[Whoah10115]

What you're arguing though is pretty irrelevant. No shit Parker is a fantastic player and the Spurs would be hurt some without him. My point was he's far less important to the Spurs than CP3 is to the Clippers. CP3 also has better all around stats and impact. So the only grounds anybody would have to place Parker above Paul THIS YEAR or any other year would be team record, which as I said is pretty negligible.

I called Parker the 5 or 6 in the MVP race so It's not me disrespecting him. It's just that Lebron, KD, CP3 and Melo have all been clearly better players and more MVP worthy than Parker, so by default he should be no higher than 5.


There's also the eye test. It's not a basic objective measure. I'm using my eyes and I see Parker impacting the game at a higher level this season. His consistency is incredible. Every game, he's simply doing the right thing, all the time.


Paul has more impact on his best days, but Parker is having his best day with regularity. Every single game, he's doing it. He's not better than Paul, but I think he's clearly had the better season, to this point.

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.nba.com/mvp-ladder/2012-13/index.html there's some opinions, either way

Tony Parker > CP3 for the first half, lets see what happens the second half

Their rankings change on a weekly basis based on play from that specific week. If you guys are judging that way, then that's the misunderstanding. I'm judging on the entire season so far and that's CP3.

[Clippersfan86]

There's also the eye test. It's not a basic objective measure. I'm using my eyes and I see Parker impacting the game at a higher level this season. His consistency is incredible. Every game, he's simply doing the right thing, all the time.


Paul has more impact on his best days, but Parker is having his best day with regularity. Every single game, he's doing it. He's not better than Paul, but I think he's clearly had the better season, to this point.

I showed you the numbers and CP3 won in a landslide. You're talking about eye test... watch footage of the Clippers with and without CP3 and you wouldn't even be arguing with me right now man. Chris Paul's impact on the game of basketball shits on Parker's BAD. There actually isn't another PLAYER in the entire NBA who impacts the all around game as much as CP3 outside of Lebron.

[Whoah10115]

I showed you the numbers and CP3 won in a landslide. You're talking about eye test... watch footage of the Clippers with and without CP3 and you wouldn't even be arguing with me right now man. Chris Paul's impact on the game of basketball shits on Parker's BAD. There actually isn't another PLAYER in the entire NBA who impacts the all around game as much as CP3 outside of Lebron.



I don't care. I think Parker has played better this season.


That's all it's about. That's what MVP means to me. That's what it should mean. This stuff about how important is trivial as this award should exist to acknowledge the best basketball. I'm not giving Paul points for how badly they do without him. I'll take that into consideration when evaluating him, overall. I could even watch it and go back and re-examine his play during the season, on that basis. But these metrics will never tell me what I think, even if I'm wrong. And these metrics are not the equivalent of the answer, automatically.

[imnew09]

As far as of now, Parker will take it over Paul because Spurs #1 seed. Records from the past has proven that theory. If by the end of the season, Spurs are still #1 overall, I strongly believe Parker will take it over Lebron.

[Clippersfan86]

As far as of now, Parker will take it over Paul because Spurs #1 seed. Records from the past has proven that theory. If by the end of the season, Spurs are still #1 overall, I strongly believe Parker will take it over Lebron.

If we are talking about likeliness of being selected I agree Parker>CP3 right now. Only because MVP voters vote incorrectly for what the award was originally and is supposed to be. It's not supposed to be the best player on the team with the best record and that's a moronic way to vote.

[TMT]

Would be nice and well deserved for TP in theory but let's be real here, the media won't allow someone like him to take the MVP home. It's a two man race at this point, LBJ and KD.

[SCdac]

The Spurs are too good outside of Tony Parker for him to win it. It's obvious if you watch the team night-in and night-out. He's their best offensive player, but he's not even top-40 in the L in minutes per game.

Lebron averages more minutes, points, rebounds, steals, blocks, and nearly as many assists as Parker, for a team that averages less points than SA.

The media would have it wrong giving the MVP to Parker. Being a candidate is one thing

[RRR3]

Tony Parker should not be mentioned in the same sentence as the point guard on the Clippers (ya see what I did there? :D ). Apologize to Chris Paul all of you who insulted him in such a ridiculous manner. :no:

[whoartthou]

Is it just me, or does tony parker use the pick and roll WAY too much? I wonder how effective he is/will be if he isn't utilizing the screen/roll?

Obviously pick and roll is basketball 101, just putting it out there

[Djahjaga]

...Chris Paul is the best offensive PG in the game based on not only his production alone but what he gets out of others and it's not even close. His career offensive rating is at the top of the all time list did you know that?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/off_rtg_career.html

That includes the freaking ABA. Go ahead and look for Tony Parker on that list...


Number 5 on that list? Kiki Vandeweghe. Ahead of Barkley, Dantley, McHale (7, 8, and 9, respectively). Jose Calderon ahead of Steve Nash. Cedrix Maxwell ahead of...MICHAEL FREAKING JORDAN. MJ is at 14. :facepalm

But my favorite two members on that list have to be Brad Davis (No. 16) and Mario Elie (No. 30).

Davis is a career 8.2 points, 4.9 assists, 1.8 rebounds guy. Elie is 4.4 points, 2.6 assists, 2.8 rebounds.



Did you even look at the list? Did you consider its validity as a useful metric? You give proponents of advanced metrics a bad name. This is the reason why people think all we do is watch boxscores change. You have to supplement stats with watching the games (and vice versa). You clearly watch every Clippers game ever, but do you seriously not sense anything wrong with that list?

[unbreakable]

Tony Parker should not be mentioned in the same sentence as the point guard on the Clippers (ya see what I did there? :D ). Apologize to Chris Paul all of you who insulted him in such a ridiculous manner. :no:

i love paul, but how many finals MVP does paul have?

paul is the same player he's always been but tony parker is in his prime time maturity jordanesque level right now. he's the best PG in the game with rose and rondo out, and its not close.

numbers dont lie. tp9 >cp3 since 2012.

[onhcetum]

If he's going to get it, he's gonna need a lot more press. He needs everyone to be talking and putting his name out there.

He deserves it as much as anyone. Durant is only a scorer, and he has Westbrook. Lebron is having a great year too, but he has Wade and Bosh (and even Mario). The MVP award is not the league's best player, it's the player that is most valuable to their respective teams... and that person is Parker.

Sure, Duncan is having an awesome year, but he's been in and out of the lineup this year with injuries. Ginobili has also missed a handful of games this year. In fact, he's not even himself when he is on the court. Leonard and Jackson have also missed games. Parker is the only constant and the only one that shows up every game. He's averaging 20+ ppg on 53% shooting and the primary ball handler on the team.

If you watch Spurs game, you know the offense becomes stagnant when he's out of the game. They still don't have a reliable back up point guard, so Pop can't rest him as much as he would like. Both of the "back ups" are undersized shooting guards converted to point guards. Their only other point guard is a rookie and buried at the end of the bench.

He's leading a team filled of old players, late 2nd round picks, international players, journeymen, and rookies/2nd year players. He is absolutely 100% my MVP this season.

[BoutPractice]

TP has a strong case. He's playing as well as anyone in the league right now, he totally controls the game with greater poise and confidence than ever.
In a down year with a combination of voter fatigue and lack of exceptional play from the exceptional players he may win it... unfortunately that year isn't it.
He should definitely be top 5 though.

[KOBE143]

He deserve it more than LeBron..

The west competition is a lot tougher than east.. Plus duncan will probably miss the rest of the season and Manu is always injured and yet his team has the best record.. I know Pop is also one of the reason for they're success but w/o TP that team is top 8 in the west at best..

[joeyjoejoe]

Parkers havin a great season and should be in talks, he beats cp in scoring and shooting % besides ft % but that's about it, cp is better in all other aspects playmaking, defense, rebounds, turnovers, leadership and I feel has more impact, both are clutch when needed, parker may be higher on MVP right only due to havin better record and missing fewer games

[TMT]

Is it just me, or does tony parker use the pick and roll WAY too much? I wonder how effective he is/will be if he isn't utilizing the screen/roll?

Obviously pick and roll is basketball 101, just putting it out there

It's called being in a system. And obviously it isn't that simple of a scheme because most teams can't stop it.

[greymatter]

People seem to confuse "bold" and "flat out stupid".

The Spurs are a perfect example of a perfectly coached team. Pop gets the most out of his players. They still find ways to win with Manu, TD, TP out of the lineup at various times. TP won't win MVP for the same reason it would have been absolutely retarded to have given Billups, Ben Wallace, or Rip Hamilton the award in 05-06 when the Pistons finished with the league's best record. TP was never a top 10 player at any point in his career and has no business ever winning it.

[imnew09]

This guy deserves MVP this year.

[Anaximandro1]

Tony

:bowdown:

[Kingwillball]

This guy deserves MVP this year.


Cmon.. Why ?

[pauk]

This guy deserves MVP this year.

Not over Lebron.... probably not over Durant either, less sure about that one as he is on a 3 game losing streak, but...

[BuffaloBill]

Chuck just said Parker deserves the MVP :lol

[SCdac]

Spurs are badass even when Parker is not on the floor. Actually a pleasure to watch. Parker only averages like 33 mpg. No MVP ever has averaged such few minutes.

[Kingwillball]

Two weeks ago it was Durant over Lebron now its Parker over Lebron.. People just looking for excuses not to give it to Lebron when he CLEARLY deserves it being the Best Player on the best team(I know not best record yet) and doing so much for his team at a ridiculously high and efficient level.

[bdreason]

People seem to confuse "bold" and "flat out stupid".

The Spurs are a perfect example of a perfectly coached team. Pop gets the most out of his players. They still find ways to win with Manu, TD, TP out of the lineup at various times. TP won't win MVP for the same reason it would have been absolutely retarded to have given Billups, Ben Wallace, or Rip Hamilton the award in 05-06 when the Pistons finished with the league's best record. TP was never a top 10 player at any point in his career and has no business ever winning it.



He's a top 10 player this season. I'd like to see a list of 9 better players this year.

[Droid101]

Not over Lebron.... probably not over Durant either, less sure about that one as he is on a 3 game losing streak, but...
http://i.imgur.com/NjrwffZ.jpg

[DMAVS41]

Spurs are badass even when Parker is not on the floor. Actually a pleasure to watch. Parker only averages like 33 mpg. No MVP ever has averaged such few minutes.

This. Parker has been amazing, but he's not the MVP. He'll finish 3rd and rightfully so.

[Whoah10115]

Truth of the matter is that he gets closer and closer to Durant by the day. I obviously know Durant is a great great player and I've argued him for MVP for maybe half the season (went back and forth with him and Lebron early, then Melo was in the discussion), but with some time to think it over, his last few weeks have been underwhelming. His PPG have gone up but his defense has gone down and his team play has gone down. He's always gotten calls but this last month has been an abomination and I argued that before I even pulled out of arguing him for MVP. And then I come to realize that OKC is on a 3 game losing streak and haven't been as great recently...like an early bad streak they had last year, I didn't even realize and it ends up correlating with his more recent play.


He's not the MVP but he's up there. He's missed 3 games this season, so I don't know what various times they've done just fine without him. Why don't people take Popovich's system into consideration when they slurp post 2004 Duncan?

[Jailblazers7]

Only way Lebron doesn't win MVP at this point is either due to injury or Durant putting together some wild 10 straight 40 point game streak or something.

[Whoah10115]

Two weeks ago it was Durant over Lebron now its Parker over Lebron.. People just looking for excuses not to give it to Lebron when he CLEARLY deserves it being the Best Player on the best team(I know not best record yet) and doing so much for his team at a ridiculously high and efficient level.


This is one guy who has his opinion. Stop acting like this is some movement. Seriously.