"Rings don't always define someone's career" -Leking

[truhooper]

:applause:

LeBron James respects his elders among the NBA's greatest players of all time. Right now, he just doesn't agree with two of them: Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.

In a week dominated by league-wide debate and comparisons between James and Jordan (who will turn 50 on Sunday), James fired back again regarding Jordan's claim he'd pick Kobe Bryant as the NBA's best player.

Speaking with reporters during Friday's All-Star media day, James said he doesn't believe championships should always be the key factor in deciding comparative greatness.

"(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because ... five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one," James said. "At the end of the day, rings don't always define someone's career. If that's the case, then I'd sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. I wouldn't do that."

James won his first championship with the Heat last season while Bryant has won five with the Los Angeles Lakers. Friday's response from James came after Jordan initially said during an interview with NBA TV that he'd have a tough time deciding between Kobe and James.

"Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan told the league network of how he ultimately broke down the James-Bryant debate. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one."

Earlier in the week, Johnson issued some statements on his Twitter account in which he sided with Jordan in comparisons with James as the better individual player.

"Easy answer MJ all day, every day!" he tweeted.

In a follow-up post, Johnson tweeted: "If MJ and LeBron played 1-on-1 10 times, MJ would win all 10. MJ is the ultimate 1-on-1 player!"

James has been peppered with questions all week about comments made by two of the players he idolized growing up.

At first, James lightly dismissed the criticism and tried to change the conversation with his play on the court during one of the most productive stretches of his career. James guided the Heat on a seven-game winning streak leading into the All-Star break, which featured an NBA record six consecutive games when he scored at least 30 points and shot at least 60 percent from the field.

But when he again faced questions about Jordan's comments during Friday's media session in advance of Sunday's All-Star game, James seemed annoyed at times.

"I don't play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or how they feel about me," James said. "It doesn't matter to me. I play for my family, for my teammates, for my coaching staff and I play for our fans, and that's it. What I need bulletin board material for? My inspiration is the game I love. I don't need nobody to pick me or not."

Taking Jordan's notion to task a bit further, James then rattled off a list of mostly role players on championships teams who ended up with more titles than marquee stars who never won at the highest level.

"Jud Buechler has multiple rings. Charles Barkley doesn't have one ring. He's not better than Charles Barkely," James said of Buechler, who won titles alongside Jordan with the Bulls in the late 1990s. "Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time. Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time. Sometimes, it's the situation you're in, the team you're (on) and the timing as well."

[TheMarkMadsen]

:applause:

LeBron James respects his elders among the NBA's greatest players of all time. Right now, he just doesn't agree with two of them: Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.

In a week dominated by league-wide debate and comparisons between James and Jordan (who will turn 50 on Sunday), James fired back again regarding Jordan's claim he'd pick Kobe Bryant as the NBA's best player.

Speaking with reporters during Friday's All-Star media day, James said he doesn't believe championships should always be the key factor in deciding comparative greatness.

"(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because ... five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one," James said. "At the end of the day, rings don't always define someone's career. If that's the case, then I'd sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. I wouldn't do that."

James won his first championship with the Heat last season while Bryant has won five with the Los Angeles Lakers. Friday's response from James came after Jordan initially said during an interview with NBA TV that he'd have a tough time deciding between Kobe and James.

"Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan told the league network of how he ultimately broke down the James-Bryant debate. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one."

Earlier in the week, Johnson issued some statements on his Twitter account in which he sided with Jordan in comparisons with James as the better individual player.

"Easy answer MJ all day, every day!" he tweeted.

In a follow-up post, Johnson tweeted: "If MJ and LeBron played 1-on-1 10 times, MJ would win all 10. MJ is the ultimate 1-on-1 player!"

James has been peppered with questions all week about comments made by two of the players he idolized growing up.

At first, James lightly dismissed the criticism and tried to change the conversation with his play on the court during one of the most productive stretches of his career. James guided the Heat on a seven-game winning streak leading into the All-Star break, which featured an NBA record six consecutive games when he scored at least 30 points and shot at least 60 percent from the field.

But when he again faced questions about Jordan's comments during Friday's media session in advance of Sunday's All-Star game, James seemed annoyed at times.

"I don't play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or how they feel about me," James said. "It doesn't matter to me. I play for my family, for my teammates, for my coaching staff and I play for our fans, and that's it. What I need bulletin board material for? My inspiration is the game I love. I don't need nobody to pick me or not."

Taking Jordan's notion to task a bit further, James then rattled off a list of mostly role players on championships teams who ended up with more titles than marquee stars who never won at the highest level.

"Jud Buechler has multiple rings. Charles Barkley doesn't have one ring. He's not better than Charles Barkely," James said of Buechler, who won titles alongside Jordan with the Bulls in the late 1990s. "Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time. Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time. Sometimes, it's the situation you're in, the team you're (on) and the timing as well."


stopped reading there.

[NumberSix]

stopped reading there.
Where? At the very end? :confusedshrug:

[creepingdeath]

stopped reading there.
So basically you read the whole thing except for the last sentence.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Where? At the very end? :confusedshrug:

no, at the part where Lebron said that Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time

[TheMarkMadsen]

So basically you read the whole thing except for the last sentence.


yeah and then I read where Lebron said Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time and it killed it for me

[RRR3]

He's right.

[miller-time]

I honestly think these conversations are ruining basketball. I like and respect that LeBron plays for those reasons and more importantly I believe him.

[NumberSix]

yeah and then I read where Lebron said Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time and it killed it for me
The "fail" is implied.

[RoboticWang]

no, at the part where Lebron said that Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time
So you read everything except for the last sentence.


dumbass :roll: :roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

The "fail" is implied.


Is reggie miller one of the greatest of all time?

[RRR3]

no, at the part where Lebron said that Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time
How many players have there been in NBA history? Now, considering that most have Reggie Miller top 75 or so (I didn't see him play, from what I know he seems to be overrated to me, but again I didn't watch him), so LeBron didn't really say anything silly there.

[NumberSix]

I honestly think these conversations are ruining basketball. I like and respect that LeBron plays for those reasons and more importantly I believe him.
LeBron James is ushering in a new era of TEAM PLAYERS. This should be applauded. Good riddance to the era of shot chucking wanna be Jordans and ring counters.

[Fudge]

LeKeepinItReal.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

"Jud Buechler has multiple rings. Charles Barkley doesn't have one ring. He's not better than Charles Barkely," James said of Buechler, who won titles alongside Jordan with the Bulls in the late 1990s.

Replace Jud Buechler with Robert Horry and LeBron sounds like somebody on ISH :oldlol:

[chazzy]

Replace Jud Buechler with Robert Horry and LeBron sounds like somebody on ISH :oldlol:
He's secretly pauk

[DonDadda59]

If Karl Malone had won 2 or 3 championships, he would be considered the best PF ever and a top 5-10 player all time. He has zero, so he is neither. True story.

[RRR3]

Replace Jud Buechler with Robert Horry and LeBron sounds like somebody on ISH :oldlol:
People who oversimplify things and base shit solely on rings deserve the Robert Horry remark.

[NumberSix]

As great as MJ was, he's directly responsible for a lot of what is wrong with the NBA.

This whole, high volume scoring, has to take every big shot "the man" mentality is his fault. Basketball is a team sport and should played and VIEWED as such.

[Legends66NBA7]

Thanks for letting me know the obvious, James.

[ThaRegul8r]

In a follow-up post, Johnson tweeted: "If MJ and LeBron played 1-on-1 10 times, MJ would win all 10. MJ is the ultimate 1-on-1 player!"

I actually hate when people do this. Basketball isn't 1-on-1, it's 5-on-5. I would expect Magic Johnson to be one of the people who understood this. If the best players are determined by who would win in a game of 1-on-1, then we should just throw everyone into the AND1 tour and find out who's the best player that way.

[NumberSix]

I actually hate when people do this. Basketball isn't 1-on-1, it's 5-on-5. I would expect Magic Johnson to be one of the people who understood this. If the best players are determined by who would win in a game of 1-on-1, then we should just throw everyone into the AND1 tour and find out who's the best player that way.
Magic is an absolute company man as a media personality/analyst. He's basically just a hype man and hyperbole spewing stooge.

[TheMan]

LeBron James is ushering in a new era of TEAM PLAYERS. This should be applauded. Good riddance to the era of shot chucking wanna be Jordans and ring counters.
I read this as...LeBron might not get nowhere near Kobe/MJ ring count:oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

If Karl Malone had won 2 or 3 championships, he would be considered the best PF ever and a top 5-10 player all time. He has zero, so he is neither. True story.

Depends on how he won them too, but yeah... the whole perception about him changed.

He isn't considered either obviously, because he was overrated to begin with. Lost every year he was in the league to the best and worst of playoff opponents.

[fpliii]

Raw ring count means little to me, but given proper context you can learn a lot about a player based on how he performs on the grandest stage.

I'm a numbers guy through and through, but counting stats found in a box score can be very deceiving. Outstanding individual performances mean very little if you can't positively impact the game on a team level.

Either way though, I'm happy this discussion takes place. The NBA is a relatively young league, so it's great to see these types of comparisons. Basketball on its own is an incredible spectator sport, but the historical discussions significantly enhance its allure.

[NumberSix]

I read this as...LeBron might not get nowhere near Kobe/MJ ring count:oldlol:
And he sure as fcuk won't get anywhere near Sam Jones or John Havlicek. Just Like Kobe, MJ, Steve Kerr and the great Robert Horry didn't.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And he sure as fcuk won't get anywhere near Sam Jones or John Havlicek. Just Like Kobe, MJ, Steve Kerr and the great Robert Horry didn't.


have you ever heard of the word context?

[Blue&Orange]

Coming from a guy that took ring chasing to another level, any intelligent people can only :lol

[miller-time]

Thanks for letting me know the obvious, James.

They asked him!?...

[NumberSix]

Coming from a guy that took ring chasing to another level, any intelligent people can only :lol
No. The knicks take ring chasing to a greater level. They just fail hilariously

[TheMarkMadsen]

No. The knicks take ring chasing to a greater level. They just fail hilariously


what's sad is that you think that's a clever response.

[NumberSix]

what's sad is that you think that's a clever response.
What's sad is that you think I gave it that much thought.

The internets is serious bizniss. :roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

They asked him!?...

Yes and it was an obvious answer.

:confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

As great as MJ was, he's directly responsible for a lot of what is wrong with the NBA.

This whole, high volume scoring, has to take every big shot "the man" mentality is his fault. Basketball is a team sport and should played and VIEWED as such.
Oh, get off of it. I didn't see you complain when LBJ singlehandedly dismantled the Celtics in last year's do or die GM 6, or when he hit dagger after dagger against my Bulls in the ECFs:facepalm The opposite was true, in fact.

Look, basketball is a superstar driven league, when is the last time a deep team with no elite player won? The Nuggets are never winning a title until they get a legit elite player. Those are the teams that win, your superstar has to deliver in crunch time.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

So basically you read the whole thing except for the last sentence.
:lol

[RRR3]

The notion many coaches seem to have that their best player automatically should start ISO'ing at the end of close games and completely stop ball movement irritates me. I'm somewhat of a novice in terms of being a serious basketball fan, but it seems that this strategy can often be counterproductive. Not saying it can't work, because it obviously has many times, but often I disagree with the choice to isolate the best player again and again.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What's sad is that you think I gave it that much thought.

The internets is serious bizniss. :roll:


apparently to you it is considering you stalk ISH like a jilted lover

[Blue&Orange]

What's sad is that you think I gave it that much thought.

The internets is serious bizniss. :roll:
It clearly is to you, how many accounts do you have? 20?

I love when Lebron retards have absolutely no response and they either don't reply and neg rep, or reply with some stupid remark about the Knicks.



YES THE GUY THAT TOOK RING CHASING TO ANOTHER LEVEL IS TELLING PEOPLE RINGS DON?T MATTER!! SERIOUSLY HOW RETARDED IS THAT GUY?

I'M SORRY LEBRON PHAGOTTS FOR POINTING OUT THE OBVIOUS!

[lebeast666]

stopped reading there.


Lmao you stopped reading there cause you finished the article dumbass

[Yao Ming's Foot]

If its not about the rings why did he abandon Cleveland to join up with a couple of all stars again?

Lebron is just setting the expectations bar as low as possible as usual. He's all about those PER championships. He won one ring in a strike shortened with the best 2 and 3 in the league and it was much harder than he thought. 5+ is not going to happen.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

kobe and lebron are 2 totally different players, i don't get the point in trying to compare them. guess it's the same as trying to compare magic and mj's careers. it's just stupid.

[nextlife]

Jordan was just giving props to Kobe for his career, since it is winding down. He said it was a tough choice. Lebron just needs a few more years to prove himself.

All this talk on who is better is very entertaining - people get so defensive!

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The notion many coaches seem to have that their best player automatically should start ISO'ing at the end of close games and completely stop ball movement irritates me. I'm somewhat of a novice in terms of being a serious basketball fan, but it seems that this strategy can often be counterproductive. Not saying it can't work, because it obviously has many times, but often I disagree with the choice to isolate the best player again and again.

Isn't that Jordan's most celebrated career highlight?

:confusedshrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s

[Derka]

He makes some good points, but the fact is that rings will matter greatly in his sport.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

He makes some good points, but the fact is that rings will matter greatly in his sport.
he needs to realize he is above all them guys he mentioned. like way above...

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

imagine if mj said, "i don't really count lebron's title from 2012"

[RRR3]

Isn't that Jordan's most celebrated career highlight?

:confusedshrug:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s
First of all, Jordan was an incredible isolation player, was he not? This is one play anyways.
Secondly, I was mostly trying to get across that I disagree with isolations always seemingly "having to be" (in the minds of many coaches at least) the way to go in said situations. I think they should mix it up more often. I never said isos shouldn't exist or anything like that.




he needs to realize he is above all them guys he mentioned. like way above...
What about Charles Barkley?

[Derka]

he needs to realize he is above all them guys he mentioned. like way above...
He's not. But in time, we'lll be telling our kids as they watch tomorrow's NBA "these guys are good, but they're no Lebron." He's a once in a generation baller.

[TheMan]

He's not. But in time, we'lll be telling our kids as they watch tomorrow's NBA "these guys are good, but they're no Lebron." He's a once in a generation baller.
And your kids will be saying "bullshit, you're just a cranky old 'my time was better 'geezer.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

First of all, Jordan was an incredible isolation player, was he not? This is one play anyways.
Secondly, I was mostly trying to get across that I disagree with isolations always seemingly "having to be" (in the minds of many coaches at least) the way to go in said situations. I think they should mix it up more often. I never said isos shouldn't exist or anything like that.

The reason why is that many times the isolation play is one in which the team with the ball wants this possession to be the last of the quarter/game. The team doesn't have the mindset of just normal scoring. They want to score but only if it takes up the entire shot clock. With only a few seconds left on the clock the team doesn't have the convenience of just running a normal play there wont be enough time. They need somebody to create something quickly and maybe hit a difficult shot if need be. That's usually their best perimeter scorer. Hero ball is simple common sense.

[Derka]

And your kids will be saying "bullshit, you're just a cranky old 'my time was better 'geezer.
That's probably true.

[RRR3]

The reason why is that many times the isolation play is one in which the team with the ball wants this possession to be the last of the quarter/game. The team doesn't have the mindset of just normal scoring. They want to score but only if it takes up the entire shot clock. With only a few seconds left on the clock the team doesn't have the convenience of just running a normal play there wont be enough time. They need somebody to create something quickly and maybe hit a difficult shot if need be. That's usually their best perimeter scorer. Hero ball is simple common sense.
That makes sense, but I think coaches overdo ISO's at times.

[GOBB_Junior]

Bill Russell greater than Jordan... 11 >>>> 6.

John Havlicek >>>>> Magic, Bird and ****be.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And your kids will be saying "bullshit, you're just a cranky old guy 'my time was better 'geezer.


yes we in 20 years we'll be hearing how the NBA in 2012 was lack luster compared to 2032.

"HA a 34 year old was top 5 in scoring pshhhhh"

"Lebron would average 20 6 & 4 in todays game..maybe"

"(enter best player in 20 years) would destroy Lebron, he's faster, stronger and Lebron played in a weak era"

[Mr. Jabbar]

too long didnt read

5 > 0.5

[Mr. Jabbar]

imagine if mj said, "i don't really count lebron's title from 2012"

he said it counts as half a ring in an interview, nike stole the tape though

[Duderonomy]

I dont disagree with what Lebron is saying but he is not the one to say it since he intentionally joined a stacked team to be regarded as a better player.

[pauk]

Very well said mr James.

[LoneyROY7]

Honestly, LeBron sonned MJ with that Bill Russell comment.

[NumberSix]

BackInTheGoodOldDays'tard

[DonDadda59]

Lebron doesn't even believe his own bullshit :lol

He went from:


"It's also important to me to make the team I'm on now the best. I don't want to go ring-chasing, as I call it; you know, going to a team that's already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion."

To:

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/0708/dm_100708_nba_lebron_gray_full_int.jpg


In this fall...this is very tough...in this fall I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and join the Miami Heat. I feel like it's going to give me the best opportunity to win and to win for multiple years, and not only just to win in the regular season or just to win five games in a row or three games in a row, I want to be able to win championships. And I feel like I can compete down there.

Dude would've stayed in Cleveland if he bought his own nonsense. He went to MIA specifically to chase rings because he didn't want to end up like Malone, Barkley, Ewing, etc.

[Nick Young]

Lebron with the premature excuses:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

GOAT excuse maker:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron doesn't even believe his own bullshit :lol

He went from:


"It's also important to me to make the team I'm on now the best. I don't want to go ring-chasing, as I call it; you know, going to a team that's already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion."

To:

http://a.espncdn.com/media/motion/2010/0708/dm_100708_nba_lebron_gray_full_int.jpg


In this fall...this is very tough...in this fall I'm going to take my talents to South Beach and join the Miami Heat. I feel like it's going to give me the best opportunity to win and to win for multiple years, and not only just to win in the regular season or just to win five games in a row or three games in a row, I want to be able to win championships. And I feel like I can compete down there.

Dude would've stayed in Cleveland if he bought his own nonsense. He went to MIA specifically to chase rings because he didn't want to end up like Malone, Barkley, Ewing, etc.

That little streak of his (however great it's been) has REALLY got to his head. :oldlol:

[pauk]

I dont disagree with what Lebron is saying but he is not the one to say it since he intentionally joined a stacked team to be regarded as a better player.

Correction(s):

1. He joined a bad/mediocre Wade team which since 2005-06 missed the playoffs and had only 1st round losses, yes Bosh joined Wade aswell but it was Lebron joining who was by far the biggest reason behind everything... they could have never won a championship without Lebron, but they could have probably won it without Bosh (or Wade) as long as he would have one of them... afterall he reached best team records and Finals with the worst supporting cast to ever be in a NBA finals, just one of those 2 players would have been more than abundant for him to take that next step and win the championship...

2. He joined Wade because he didnt have the luxury of a franchise giving him everything on a silverplate at his doorstep (supporting cast etc.) like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc.... they were not in his situation, they didnt have to move a finger... he was patient for 7 years and Mo Williams was the best that franchise could chalk up next to him, he figured either stay and waste his prime/career like that, ringless.... or move along...

3. He did that not to be regarded as a better player.... but to be put in a better position to accomplish the one and only thing a player of such ridicilous caliber wanted & deserved... to be put in a position to seriously compete for the biggest accomplishment there is in basketball... and that was not gona happen in Cleveland, 7 years was enough for him to see where they and he was heading... especially when he had to take a look around all the stacked opposing teams around him which he had to somehow get through.... alone................

[LakersFan626]

LeBron James is ushering in a new era of TEAM PLAYERS. This should be applauded. Good riddance to the era of shot chucking wanna be Jordans and ring counters.

Monta Ellis
Jamal Crawford
OJ Mayo
Tyreke Evans
Marcus Thornton
Nick Young
Brandon Jennings
Jordan Crawford
JR Smith
Rudy Gay
Michael Beasley
Aaron Brooks
Raymond Felton
Al Harrington
Nate Robinson
Mo Williams
Jason Terry
Ben Gordon
Kemba Walker
Charlie Villanueva
Dion Waiters
Isaiah Thomas
Brandon Knight

There are still TONS of inefficient players like Francis, Marbury, Iverson, Arenas, Antoine Walker, and Stackhouse around these days, many new, but most are very low profile.

[DonDadda59]

2. He joined Wade because he didnt have the luxury of a franchise giving him everything on a silverplate at his doorstep (supporting cast etc.) like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc.... they were not in his situation, they didnt have to move a finger... he was patient for 7 years and Mo Williams was the best that franchise could chalk up next to him, he figured either stay and waste his prime/career like that, ringless.... or move along...



Stop it. Jordan wasn't handed shit :oldlol:

Yes Kobe was drafted by a stacked team, so was Magic. But Jordan, like most top lottery picks throughout history, was selected by a bottom feeder team and had to play with subpar squads while doing heavy lifting for years before the roster improved. He could've easily taken the coward's way out like Lebron and jumped ship, but he toughed it out and helped develop his best teammate who was raw as hell when he was drafted by the Bulls. MJ never teamed up with his rivals and ring chased, he transformed his squad from a joke to a dynasty.

[scandisk_]

Stop it. Jordan wasn't handed shit :oldlol:

Yes Kobe was drafted by a stacked team, so was Magic. But Jordan, like most top lottery picks throughout history, was selected by a bottom feeder team and had to play with subpar squads while doing heavy lifting for years before the roster improved. He could've easily taken the coward's way out like Lebron and jumped ship, but he toughed it out and helped develop his best teammate who was raw as hell when he was drafted by the Bulls. MJ never teamed up with his rivals and ring chased, he transformed his squad from a joke to a dynasty.

I, for one, hope that LeBron keeps this streak to the playoffs an into the Finals or else :oldlol:

[pauk]

@DonDadda59

Jordan got EVENTUALLY what he wanted from his franchise, a supporting cast required to obtain that championship... Lebron did NOT... he was not in Lebrons situation...

I am telling you right now, infact i guarantee you that if Jordan, Magic, Bird or Kobe or anybody of such caliber were in Lebrons situation they would have done the exact same thing.... my god, especially somebody with the ego of Jordan & Kobe, they would have complained & whined & threatened to leave since day 1 (they sure would have NOT won a championship with that supporting cast Lebron had, for 7 years).... dont listen to what Magic/Jordan say "I would never team up with Magic/Bird".... 1st of all, Bosh/Wade are nowhere close to the caliber of Magic/Bird... Lebron teaming up with those is more equivalent of Jordan teaming with Brad Daugherty & older Clyde Drexler.... 2nd of all, why would Jordan even consider leaving his championship team to join a Magic or Bird that retired anyways 1 year later? Does he mean in the 80s? Ok, then why the hell would Magic/Bird even consider teaming up with Jordan when Magic/Bird had by far the best two teams in the NBA that kept playing "my-turn-your-turn to win a championship" almost every year? They were not in Lebrons situation.... especially not Magic & Bird....

[DonDadda59]

@DonDadda59

Jordan got EVENTUALLY what he wanted from his franchise, a supporting cast required to obtain that championship... Lebron did NOT... he was not in Lebrons situation...

I am telling you right now, infact i guarantee you that if Jordan, Magic, Bird or Kobe or anybody were in Lebrons situation they would have done the exact same thing.... my god, especially somebody with the ego of Jordan & Kobe, they would have complained & whined & threatened to leave since day 1 (they sure would have NOT won a championship with that supporting cast Lebron had, for 7 years).... dont listen to what Magic/Jordan say "I would never team up with Magic/Bird".... 1st of all, Bosh/Wade are nowhere close to the caliber of Magic/Bird... Lebron teaming up with those is more equivalent of Jordan teaming with Brad Daugherty & older Clyde Drexler.... 2nd of all, why would Jordan even consider leaving his championship team to join a Magic or Bird that retired anyways 1 year later? Does he mean in the 80s? Ok, then why the hell would Magic/Bird even consider teaming up with Jordan when Magic/Bird had by far the best two teams in the NBA that kept playing "my-turn-your-turn to win a championship" almost every year? They were not in Lebrons situation.... especially not Magic & Bird....

Yeah, mainly through the draft (Pippen and Grant were both raw projects that took years to develop into championship caliber support, same with BJ Armstrong). I can't think of one major acquisition the Bulls made in the 90s other than a 34 year old Dennis Rodman AFTER Jordan had already led the team to a three-peat. It took time and patience and Jordan had to suffer through years of terrible squads. But again, he didn't take the coward's way out.

[tpols]

Yeah, mainly through the draft (Pippen and Grant were both raw projects that took years to develop into championship caliber support, same with BJ Armstrong). I can't think of one major acquisition the Bulls made in the 90s other than a 34 year old Dennis Rodman AFTER Jordan had already led the team to a three-peat. It took time and patience and Jordan had to suffer through years of terrible squads. But again, he didn't take the coward's way out.
Umm.. Jordan had pippen develop into a 20+/8/7 point forward/elite defender by 1990/1991ish.. Five-six years into his career. Lebron had an iverson-philly type cast around him until he left Cleveland after seven years. Bron best sidekick was Mo Williams.

Jordan's help>>>and there's no argument against it.

[pauk]

Yeah, mainly through the draft (Pippen and Grant were both raw projects that took years to develop into championship caliber support, same with BJ Armstrong). I can't think of one major acquisition the Bulls made in the 90s other than a 34 year old Dennis Rodman AFTER Jordan had already led the team to a three-peat. It took time and patience and Jordan had to suffer through years of terrible squads. But again, he didn't take the coward's way out.

Exactly, that is still my point, he was more... blessed... than Lebron.

Magic, Kobe & Bird were much more blessed than both though...

[ripthekik]

Spoken like a true beta biitch :roll: :roll: :roll:
He might as well join Dwight as the losers group. If he didn't purposely create and join this team with Wade and Bosh, he would probably not win even one, and won't be in this conversation.

Jordan and magic are right. Five is more than one any day of the week. Lmao pauk getting defensive:roll:

[NumberSix]

Stop it. Jordan wasn't handed shit :oldlol:

Yes Kobe was drafted by a stacked team, so was Magic. But Jordan, like most top lottery picks throughout history, was selected by a bottom feeder team and had to play with subpar squads while doing heavy lifting for years before the roster improved. He could've easily taken the coward's way out like Lebron and jumped ship, but he toughed it out and helped develop his best teammate who was raw as hell when he was drafted by the Bulls. MJ never teamed up with his rivals and ring chased, he transformed his squad from a joke to a dynasty.
Yeah, but it's not like MJ was in a conference that already had a superteam with 3 franchise players, an all star point guard and a solid supporting cast.

Believe me. If the Knicks or some other team in the east had Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley and Tim Hardaway piled on one team, MJ wouldn't have just kicked it with Pippen and Paxson.

[GovernmentMan]

Spoken like a true beta biitch :roll: :roll: :roll:
He might as well join Dwight as the losers group. If he didn't purposely create and join this team with Wade and Bosh, he would probably not win even one, and won't be in this conversation.

Jordan and magic are right. Five is more than one any day of the week. Lmao pauk getting defensive:roll:


Where is the logic in this?

You can just as well say, if Kobe stayed with the Hornets, he would have 0 rings too.

[Haymaker]

I dont disagree with what Lebron is saying but he is not the one to say it since he intentionally joined a stacked team to be regarded as a better player.

This. Lebron chased a ring, like it or not. And he was too young to do so. usually, ring chasers are past their prime or just about to exit their primes. Bron jumped ship too early, and he did it because two other superstars joined him, elevating his chances of playing for a title.

[ripthekik]

Yeah, but it's not like MJ was in a conference that already had a superteam with 3 franchise players, an all star point guard and a solid supporting cast.

Believe me. If the Knicks or some other team in the east had Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley and Tim Hardaway piled on one team, MJ wouldn't have just kicked it with Pippen and Paxson.
Numbersix stfu:oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Numbersix stfu:oldlol:
bladers

[DCL]

as for not having any rings, sure, some guys just shit out of luck and only got to play with shitty players. but not having rings does define a guy like ewing. ewing was fortunate that he rarely played on weak teams. his teams were very very strong, especially on defense, and defense ruled in the 90's, yet he never got the ring. mostly thanks to the bulls.

even the time they beat the bulls (when jordan was out swinging baseball bats), ewing got to the finals still lost to hakeem. yeah yeah, it's a TEAM game, but when you're up there playing as The Man, it's totally different. even going back, all the writers always asked "can jordan finally beat the pistons??" it wasn't about "can the bulls beat the pistons?" the pressure was always all on jordan.

jordan knew that and had to live with that. you can't blame him if he thinks having rings is the ultimate achievement. when the pistons were owning the bulls, headlines were all about "jordan can't win", "the jordan rules dominate jordan", "the pistons are the jordan stoppers." etc. reading that every morning in the sports page can kinda f--k up your head, especially if you're an angry competitor like mike. so he's old school, and you have to see it from his angle to understand why that's all it matters. when he won the championship(s), he cried more than anybody. he never cried when he won the mvp. to him, the mvp was "easy." but getting the rings -- those were hard to earn.

yeah yeah, it's a TEAM game, but from jordan's perspective, it's just different. rings ARE everything that separate him from all his near and contemporary peers because he's sitting up there with six. if mj only had like one two rings, he wouldn't dominate all GOAT status discussions. think about that.

[alleykat]

So basically you read the whole thing except for the last sentence.

:lol Ahaha idk why but that's hilarious ahaha

[longtime lurker]

Well said Lebron too bad he's completely wrong. And anyone that uses the stupid Robert Horry 7 rings example simpleton that can't think for themselves.

[jlip]

:applause:

"(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because ... five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one," James said. "At the end of the day, rings don't always define someone's career. If that's the case, then I'd sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. I wouldn't do that."



While I agree with the general theme of Lebron's response about rings, it's this specific statement that stands out to me especially in light of something else he's said in the past. I don't particularly have a big problem with him picking MJ over Russell. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but his views about the history of the game seem to be very reflective of the generation who started watching the game during the MJ era and has a limited view of Russell's true greatness and contribution to the sport.

I'm certain that everyone remembers when he said that the entire league should retire #23 in honor of MJ's pioneering work of laying "down the steppingstones for everybody to come up through the ranks

[NumberSix]

While I agree with the general theme of Lebron's response about rings, it's this specific statement that stands out to me especially in light of something else he's said in the past. I don't particularly have a big problem with him picking MJ over Russell. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but his views about the history of the game seem to be very reflective of the generation who started watching the game during the MJ era and has a limited view of Russell's true greatness and contribution to the sport.

I'm certain that everyone remembers when he said that the entire league should retire #23 in honor of MJ's pioneering work of laying "down the steppingstones for everybody to come up through the ranks”. I can understand him saying that. He lived through MJ's career, personally saw him play, and knowingly feels his impact. That's OK. But my problem is that he changed his number to 6, Bill Russell's #. I was once like Lebron until I studied Russell's career. Evidently he just doesn't fully understand how truly great Russell was and the unparalleled impact he's had on the game of basketball and sports period. If he did, he would not be so dismissive of him.
He's not being dismissive. He's just saying he would pick Jordan over him. If Jordan is the #1 player of all time, wouldn't it mske perfect sense that you would pick him over someone else, even if its Bill Russell?

I mean, I just can't logically see how there is anything controversial about that. I mean, it's not like he said he'd take Chris Bosh over Bill Russell.

[jlip]

He's not being dismissive. He's just saying he would pick Jordan over him. If Jordan is the #1 player of all time, wouldn't it mske perfect sense that you would pick him over someone else, even if its Bill Russell?

I mean, I just can't logically see how there is anything controversial about that. I mean, it's not like he said he'd take Chris Bosh over Bill Russell.

My claim that he is being dismissive of Russell is not derived from just this current quote but also stems from his past quotes and actions.

[NumberSix]

My claim that he is being dismissive of Russell is not derived from just this current quote but also stems from his past quotes and actions.
Such as..... :confusedshrug:

[ThaRegul8r]

He's not being dismissive. He's just saying he would pick Jordan over him. If Jordan is the #1 player of all time, wouldn't it mske perfect sense that you would pick him over someone else, even if its Bill Russell?

I mean, I just can't logically see how there is anything controversial about that. I mean, it's not like he said he'd take Chris Bosh over Bill Russell.

He then turned around and in the same breath said, "Just like I wouldn't take Robert Horry over Kobe." So they're both linked in the same category as not even close to the player with less rings. LeBron isn't the first to think this way, but of course he has a higher profile.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Good post by lebron. :applause: repped

[jlip]

Such as..... :confusedshrug:

The below section from my post is what I'm alluding to.

[QUOTE=jlip]
I'm certain that everyone remembers when [B]he said that the entire league should retire #23 in honor of MJ's pioneering work of laying "down the steppingstones for everybody to come up through the ranks

[Mr. Jabbar]

"Rings don't always define someone's career" How convenient for you to say eh lebron :roll:


5 > 0.5, deal with it...

[DMV2]

Post 2012 Finals, I remember him clearly saying he wants multiple rings because he wants to be in the discussion with the greatest of all-time greats.

[bdreason]

You can be a great player without winning any rings.... but how many players in the top 10 all-time don't have a ring?


At some point, if you want to be considered one of the greatest ever, you need to win the ultimate prize.

[longtime lurker]

Post 2012 Finals, I remember him clearly saying he wants multiple rings because he wants to be in the discussion with the greatest of all-time greats.

Lol this :roll: I bet if Lebron was the one with 5 rings he'd be singing a different tune. Dude flip flops just like his stans

[knicksman]

competitive players dont wear other greats numbers.

[NumberSix]

competitive players dont wear other greats numbers.
You're right. LeBron should have picked 5,687.3 for his jersey.

I'll remind James Harden that he's not competitive because YOU said so.

[Pointguard]

A move like that implies that MJ is so great and impacting that the entire NBA should singularly honor him for all of perpetuity. That's fine. If Lebron had changed his jersey number to 1, 5, 12, 34, or something like that, that wouldn't have been a big deal IMO, but he changed his number to the one player who arguably has the strongest case for being both greater all time and more historically significant than MJ. I'm a historian by profession, and maybe I look at things from a different perspective, but to me that seems rather insulting to the history of the game, Russell's legacy expressly. Ultimately I don't harshly criticize Lebron for that, because he probably is just not as informed on Russell's career and contributions as he is MJ's. When I was Lebron's age I didn't know that much about Russell's legacy either.

He could be paying a tribute to an aspect of Russell he aspires too. He obviously had Jordan higher all along. It was never challenged. Russell could even be more reflective of his goals but this had nothing to do with his play. Russell was most effective off of the ball. Lebron is the opposite. He can't identify with Russell as a player, instead he aspires to his achievements. Similar to a singer aspiring to the records sold by Michael Jackson and awards won, but finds him too strange to identify with. There is no contradiction there.

[NumberSix]

The below section from my post is what I'm alluding to.



A move like that implies that MJ is so great and impacting that the entire NBA should singularly honor him for all of perpetuity. That's fine. If Lebron had changed his jersey number to 1, 5, 12, 34, or something like that, that wouldn't have been a big deal IMO, but he changed his number to the one player who arguably has the strongest case for being both greater all time and more historically significant than MJ. I'm a historian by profession, and maybe I look at things from a different perspective, but to me that seems rather insulting to the history of the game, Russell's legacy expressly. Ultimately I don't harshly criticize Lebron for that, because he probably is just not as informed on Russell's career and contributions as he is MJ's. When I was Lebron's age I didn't know that much about Russell's legacy either.

I'll be sure to let Tyson Chandler Know that he's disrespecting Bill Russell.

[The Iron Fist]

Rings don't matter but he celebrated like a madman when he won one.

:biggums:

[tazb]

He's right. Bill Russell > Jordan? Robert Horry > Kobe?

[All Net]

Thought Lebron was spot on with his comments.

[tazb]

Rings don't matter but he celebrated like a madman when he won one.

:biggums:

How about you read the article before posting, dumb ass.

[The Iron Fist]

The notion many coaches seem to have that their best player automatically should start ISO'ing at the end of close games and completely stop ball movement irritates me. I'm somewhat of a novice in terms of being a serious basketball fan, but it seems that this strategy can often be counterproductive. Not saying it can't work, because it obviously has many times, but often I disagree with the choice to isolate the best player again and again.


You don't even play sports, so you wouldn't know how it is to compete.

[talkingconch]

stopped reading there.
LMAO the worst way to use this line ive seen yet hahaha

[The Iron Fist]

He makes some good points, but the fact is that rings will matter greatly in his sport.


Championships matter in every sport, even in arenas of academics. Who in the **** just plays for fun at the highest levels? Nobody. They all play to be the best and to be called "champion". Lebron is just making excuses for the lack of rings he has at this point in his career. Lets be real, hes the same dumbass who said they were going to win 8 titles.

[The Iron Fist]

Umm.. Jordan had pippen develop into a 20+/8/7 point forward/elite defender by 1990/1991ish.. Five-six years into his career. Lebron had an iverson-philly type cast around him until he left Cleveland after seven years. Bron best sidekick was Mo Williams.

Jordan's help>>>and there's no argument against it.
Iversons cast, DPOY, 6th MOY, COY. He wasn't playing with bums.

[NumberSix]

Rings don't matter but he celebrated like a madman when he won one.

:biggums:
who the fcuk ever said that?

[DCL]

ask karl malone if the ring was that important when he jumped on the shaq/kobe lakers.

ask kevin garnett if the ring was important when he was crying on tv to john thompson about his legacy and not winning in minnesota.

ask barkley if he was chasing a ring when he joined hakeem and pippen in houston.

ask lebron if he remembers who was the dude who predicted, "not four, not five, not six, not seven, not...." and what was on his dream list.

jordan got his 6 so he's talking mad shit. magic got five so he's nodding at what's up. ask kobe and all he talks about is rings. even when shaq was jumping all over the place late in his career, his mind was on trying to get more rings.

some players won't admit it if they don't have it or have enough, but deep down, they all want the ring because it does matter. it solidifies everything. it's demonstration that they battled all the way in the toughest games (the playoffs) and came out as last man/men standing. the guys with the rings have the heroics backed with hardware, the hard fought fourth quarters, or the drenching game 7's where it's Do or Die, the buzzer beaters, the carry your team on your back and refuse to lose stories.

yes, it's a TEAM game, but at the end, when you're The Man, you gotta play your best and bring your A game to deliver during the toughest test. and you gotta do it all the way to get the damn ring to prove nobody stopped you. MJ knows this. Magic knows this. Shaq knows this. Duncan knows this. Kobe, I hate his ass, he will always be a f@ggot, also knows this very clearly. Lebron SHOULD know this. but he only got 1 ring right now, so he ain't being honest.

but the hell with robert horry. don't even bring his ass up in this discussion. talking about ALL-TIME greatness. not role players.

[The Iron Fist]

How about you read the article before posting, dumb ass.
I did, and hes a ****ing idiot. Horry? Really? Does he even understand context? Or does he just regurgitate dumb shit from homers like you?

Yea, Horry has 7 rings, as a ****ing role player. Not as a main cog or centerpiece, but as a role player. He won't even be in the hall of fame because his only contributions, were a few key shots. Not because of his entire body of work in basketball, which is at best, compared to the all time best in the history of the sport, is minimal. lol at people still trying to use the Robert Horry excuse as if teams built around Robert ****ing Horry. When people talk about rings, they are talking about cornerstones of franchises. Not some guy who plays a specific role.

[chazzy]

He actually did use the Horry>Kobe analogy:lol

[The Iron Fist]

who the fcuk ever said that?

Thats basically what hes saying.

[NumberSix]

I did, and hes a ****ing idiot. Horry? Really? Does he even understand context? Or does he just regurgitate dumb shit from homers like you?

Yea, Horry has 7 rings, as a ****ing role player. Not as a main cog or centerpiece, but as a role player. He won't even be in the hall of fame because his only contributions, were a few key shots. Not because of his entire body of work in basketball, which is at best, compared to the all time best in the history of the sport, is minimal. lol at people still trying to use the Robert Horry excuse as if teams built around Robert ****ing Horry. When people talk about rings, they are talking about cornerstones of franchises. Not some guy who plays a specific role.
Oh, but that rule doesn't apply for Kobe though, right?

[The Iron Fist]

Oh, but that rule doesn't apply for Kobe though, right?
Kobes been a cornerstone.

[NumberSix]

Kobes been a cornerstone.
2 of 5

[The Iron Fist]

2 of 5
Do you even understand what a cornerstone is?

[NumberSix]

Do you even understand what a cornerstone is?
Was Pippen a "cornerstone"? :confusedshrug:

[The Iron Fist]

Was Pippen a "cornerstone"? :confusedshrug:
Most definitely.

[NumberSix]

Most definitely.
Really? lol. Pippen was the cornerstone of Chicago's 6 championships?:roll:


Now, you know you done fcuked up, right?


You've backed yourself up into a corner that you can't get out of.

[The Iron Fist]

Really? lol. Pippen was the cornerstone of Chicago's 6 championships?:roll:


Now, you know you done fcuked up, right?


You've backed yourself up into a corner that you can't get out of.

Without a doubt he was. They didn't get past the Pistons until his balls dropped.

[KOBE143]

Typical LeBron James always have an excuse for his half ass cheap ring..

[The Iron Fist]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/16909_10151495714892223_1792089348_n.jpg

[NumberSix]

Without a doubt he was. They didn't get past the Pistons until his balls dropped.
So, Pippen > Kobe, right?

I mean, 6 chips as the cornerstone of the franchise is beyond what Kobe has done, right?:roll:

[KOBE143]

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/16909_10151495714892223_1792089348_n.jpg
:applause: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[The Iron Fist]

So, Pippen > Kobe, right?

I mean, 6 chips as the cornerstone of the franchise is beyond what Kobe has done, right?:roll:

Not really. Pippen has no FMVPs. No MVPs. No scoring titles. etc. Troll harder though, its amusing.

Its not like Pip didn't have his chance though. He did. and couldn't do it. Doesn't mean he wasn't a Chicago cornerstone though.

[NumberSix]

Not really. Pippen has no FMVPs. No MVPs. No scoring titles. etc. Troll harder though, its amusing.

Its not like Pip didn't have his chance though. He did. and couldn't do it. Doesn't mean he wasn't a Chicago cornerstone though.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[The Iron Fist]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
Thats exactly your face every year lebron goes home without a ring.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Steve Kerr ‏@SteveKerrTNT
I got news for you LeBron: Jud Buechler WAS better than Barkley. He did all the little things that didn't show up in the box score.


LOL Steve Kerr is hilarious.

[DCL]

Steve Kerr ‏@SteveKerrTNT
I got news for you LeBron: Jud Buechler WAS better than Barkley. He did all the little things that didn't show up in the box score.


LOL Steve Kerr is hilarious.

of course! buechler grabbed gatorade for pippen and jordan when they were thirsty and coming back to the bench. they don't show dedicated team work like that in the box score. :lol

[knicksman]

You're right. LeBron should have picked 5,687.3 for his jersey.

I'll remind James Harden that he's not competitive because YOU said so.

Lebron is like howard. Trying to use superman nick when theres other great player already using it. And both of them are not competitors. Competitors dont idolize other greats. Thats why you dont hear kobe saying he idolizes mj despite his style telling otherwise. Competitors dont join other superstars too. LOL

[knicksman]

I did, and hes a ****ing idiot. Horry? Really? Does he even understand context? Or does he just regurgitate dumb shit from homers like you?

Yea, Horry has 7 rings, as a ****ing role player. Not as a main cog or centerpiece, but as a role player. He won't even be in the hall of fame because his only contributions, were a few key shots. Not because of his entire body of work in basketball, which is at best, compared to the all time best in the history of the sport, is minimal. lol at people still trying to use the Robert Horry excuse as if teams built around Robert ****ing Horry. When people talk about rings, they are talking about cornerstones of franchises. Not some guy who plays a specific role.

this just shows that lebron is not really that smart as people thinks he is

[BrickingStar]

Lebron is like howard. Trying to use superman nick when theres other great player already using it. And both of them are not competitors. Competitors dont idolize other greats. Thats why you dont hear kobe saying he idolizes mj despite his style telling otherwise. Competitors dont join other superstars too. LOL
http://kicksaddict.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/kobe-in-mj-jersey.jpg

And kobe sure has welcomed superstars and wanted out of LA as well

[Scholar]

Is reggie miller one of the greatest of all time?

There have been thousands of players in the NBA. Among those thousand of players, you can't tell me Reggie Miller isn't one of the best players of all-time. He might not be ranked in the top 10 in any sane person's list, and maybe not even in the top 20, but he is one of the best players to pick up a basketball among millions who try, thousands who've made it, and dozens who've been exceptionally good at it.

[Jax]

Bill Russel>Jordan.

[ThaRegul8r]

There have been thousands of players in the NBA. Among those thousand of players, you can't tell me Reggie Miller isn't one of the best players of all-time. He might not be ranked in the top 10 in any sane person's list, and maybe not even in the top 20, but he is one of the best players to pick up a basketball among millions who try, thousands who've made it, and dozens who've been exceptionally good at it.

For some reason, some people are of the belief that "one of the greatest" of all time only means "top 10/top 20, etc." Top 10 means the 99.999 etc. percentile of players ever to play the game, but if you stop and think about it, what percentile do people think Reggie Miller be in when talking abouy every single player whose ever set foot on the hardwood since its inception?

[Ne 1]

Coming from a guy that took ring chasing to another level, any intelligent people can only :lol

"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it."

"It

[KingBeasley08]

That Bill Russell line was golden :bowdown:

[Chrono90]

5 is better than 1 in terms of two great players like Kobe and Lebron. Not saying the only aspect is championships. :facepalm

[ripthekik]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it."

"It

[Blue&Orange]

"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it."

"It’s also important to me to make the team I’m on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I don’t want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team that’s already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like we’re on our way."

“Next year, I will be playing for The Miami Heat. I would like to thank all of my fans for supporting me and I am looking forward to seeing you guys next season as I CHASE the NBA Championship.”

"Not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven. Hey, and when I say that when I say that, I really believe it. I'm not just up here blowing smoke at none of these fans, because that's not what I'm about. I'm about business. And we believe we can win multiple championships."
bu-bu-bu-bu-but haven't you heard? The heat weren't a "established team" they sucked before Lebron got there!!! It's not ring chasing!!

For example if CP3, HArden, Melo, Aldridge, Howard decided to team up on the bobcats that woudn't be ring chasing because the bobcats aren't a "established" team!

Isn't that right pauk, dumbsix?

Lebron, where going ring chasing and then whine how rings don't matter happens!

Lebron, where taking a paycut to ring chase and then whine how he isn't a max player and ask credit for it, happens!


Hey Lebron stop doing interviews!! :lol

[KingBeasley08]

bu-bu-bu-bu-but haven't you heard? The heat weren't a "established team" they sucked before Lebron got there!!! It's not ring chasing!!

For example if CP3, HArden, Melo, Aldridge, Howard decided to team up on the bobcats that woudn't be ring chasing because the bobcats aren't a "established" team!

Isn't that right pauk, dumbsix?

Lebron, where going ring chasing and then whine how rings don't matter happens!

Lebron, where taking a paycut to ring chase and then whine how he isn't a max player and ask credit for it, happens!


Hey Lebron stop doing interviews!! :lol
lol this same idiot was begging lebron to come "ring chase" on the Knicks. Just a salty fan here :oldlol:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

2 of 5

5 of 5. Just because you aren't the best player doesn't mean you aren't an integral piece of winning a title. That's especially true for the 3peat Lakers since they relied heavily on their 2 best players. I know you hate Kobe but I don't understand why that's a difficult concept for you to grasp.

[Pointguard]

:applause:

LeBron James respects his elders among the NBA's greatest players of all time. Right now, he just doesn't agree with two of them: Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson.

Speaking with reporters during Friday's All-Star media day, James said he doesn't believe championships should always be the key factor in deciding comparative greatness.

"(Jordan) said he would take Kobe over me because ... five rings are better than one, and the last time he checked, five is better than one," James said. "At the end of the day, rings don't always define someone's career. If that's the case, then I'd sit up here and say I would take (Bill) Russell over Jordan. But I wouldn't. I wouldn't take Russell over Jordan. Russell has 11 rings, Jordan has six. I wouldn't do that."

"Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan told the league network of how he ultimately broke down the James-Bryant debate. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one."

Earlier in the week, Johnson issued some statements on his Twitter account in which he sided with Jordan in comparisons with James as the better individual player.

"Easy answer MJ all day, every day!" he tweeted.

In a follow-up post, Johnson tweeted: "If MJ and LeBron played 1-on-1 10 times, MJ would win all 10. MJ is the ultimate 1-on-1 player!"

James has been peppered with questions all week about comments made by two of the players he idolized growing up.

At first, James lightly dismissed the criticism and tried to change the conversation with his play on the court during one of the most productive stretches of his career. James guided the Heat on a seven-game winning streak leading into the All-Star break, which featured an NBA record six consecutive games when he scored at least 30 points and shot at least 60 percent from the field.

But when he again faced questions about Jordan's comments during Friday's media session in advance of Sunday's All-Star game, James seemed annoyed at times.

"I don't play the game and try to define who I am over what guys say or how they feel about me," James said. "It doesn't matter to me. I play for my family, for my teammates, for my coaching staff and I play for our fans, and that's it. What I need bulletin board material for? My inspiration is the game I love. I don't need nobody to pick me or not."


"Jud Buechler has multiple rings. Charles Barkley doesn't have one ring. He's not better than Charles Barkely," James said of Buechler, who won titles alongside Jordan with the Bulls in the late 1990s. "Patrick Ewing is one of the greatest of all time. Reggie Miller is one of the greatest of all time. Sometimes, it's the situation you're in, the team you're (on) and the timing as well."

Rarely do you see a spontaneous answer as good as this. He also seems to be a little maturer, at least in evaluating the value of family/things/life/identity, than Jordan and Magic.

As you get older, nobody would trade in experience for things. Especially if you play a game for a living. If you want achievement do something like Dr. Martian Luther King or raise children to have access to happiness and fulfillment. Happiness and fulfillment happen in the process of growing. Maybe if you are depressed your trophy room can do something for you but otherwise its just really there, without life, and incapable of doing anything or translating into anything. Lebron brought up his family and it had to hurt Jordan - well if Jordan is on his family reality - who knows it might be a family game with him. But when you tie your identity up to your achievements it sets you up to be a has been - it guarantees it. When you say your identity is about your work, experience and family, it means its on-going, developing and expanding. Jordan won't bring it up again.

Russell, who at least can claim an incredible standard in the game, seemed depressed for like two decades because its a dead end street. Real life will always triumph over a person trying to find fulfillment in a game. Jordan is still at an age where he will lie to the public to one up the next guy coming along (the lie is that he believes Russell is better than him - Russell is almost twice as good as him if you go by ring count). If he really believes this, he set up his own trap and will be depressed for some time.

Lebron gave him a life-lesson right on national TV.

[Ne 1]

5 of 5. Just because you aren't the best player doesn't mean you aren't an integral piece of winning a title. That's especially true for the 3peat Lakers since they relied heavily on their 2 best players. I know you hate Kobe but I don't understand why that's a difficult concept for you to grasp.


Yup. Kobe being #2 to Shaq during the 3-peat should hurt Kobe in no way. He was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was the most productive "#2 option" in NBA history and arguably the 2nd best player in the leauge in 2001 and 2002 behind Shaq. Any wing/perimeter player in NBA history would be a "sidekick" to prime Shaq. Just writing those rings off as "not the best player on the team" especially in '01 and '02 doesn't do Kobe's level of play justice, it's diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001/2002 than just Shaq and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant.

They won 3 straight championships, which is a rare feat. Who was the 3rd best player on those team? Glen Rice and Rick Fox? Like you said those team were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Yet they weren't just a championship caliber team, but they were a DYNASTY. In fact, out of all the dynasties in NBA history those Lakers were CLEARLY the least talented. Shaq and Kobe BOTH deserve huge amounts of credit for those 3 championships.

[jlip]

I'll be sure to let Tyson Chandler Know that he's disrespecting Bill Russell.

:facepalm

You obviously don't get it. Did Tyson Chandler make a bold declaration that he wanted the jersey number of any all time great retired by the whole league solely because of his "pioneering contribution", then turn around and wear the jersey number of the one player who was arguably more of a trailblazing (no pun intended) contributor? No. It's not about any player wearing the number. It's about Lebron explicitly honoring one player for doing something while seemingly choosing to ignore another who was just as, if not more important.

It's like coming on TV and saying that in honor of Thomas Jefferson being a president I think that no one should work on his birthday, but turning around and purposely working overtime on George Washington's birthday.

[tazb]

"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it."

"It’s also important to me to make the team I’m on now the best," says James about his Cavaliers team. "I don’t want to go "Ring - Chasing" as I call it, you know. Going to a team that’s already pretty established and trying to win a ring with them. I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion. And I feel like we’re on our way."

“Next year, I will be playing for The Miami Heat. I would like to thank all of my fans for supporting me and I am looking forward to seeing you guys next season as I CHASE the NBA Championship.”

"Not two, not three, not four, not five, not six, not seven. Hey, and when I say that when I say that, I really believe it. I'm not just up here blowing smoke at none of these fans, because that's not what I'm about. I'm about business. And we believe we can win multiple championships."

Ring chasing? :biggums: People really believe that Miami team last year was "stacked", if they were so stacked why were they trailing in 3 different series? LeBron had to score nearly 700 points in the playoffs last year to win, it was more than Kobe has score in any of his championship runs...think about that. Also, if he was a ring chaser...how the hell did he win MVP, FMVP? :roll:

[AirFederer]

Love MJ the bball player. The GOAT, the ultimate "killer". :bowdown:

Meh to MJ the human being. He has serious issues. Read the looong ESPN piece, disturbing to say the least. Spitting on cinnamon rolls to keep them to yourself, come on now. :biggums: :banghead: :hammerhead:

LeBron seems more mature, like a person in more harmony IMHO.

Wish MJ finds a cure for his drives...

[Mr. Jabbar]

[QUOTE=Ne 1]"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland, and I won't stop until I get it."

"It

[#number6ix#]

I never heard lebron say rings don't matter I heard him they don't always define a career meaning that when judging a persons value and skill as a player u can't just look at how many rings they've won to determine how good they were. Championship are a team award that's why when a team wins a chip everybody gets a ring from the owners to the trainers to the last man on the bench. I never seen one man win a championship I remember Kerr hitting big shots, horry hitting big shots, fisher hitting big shots so on and so on.

[Ne 1]

......

He colluded with two other top-tier superstar players in the league because he couldn't handle the pressure of being the man. He had to take the easy way out to win fabricated titles.

[Just2McFly]

lol this same idiot was begging lebron to come "ring chase" on the Knicks. Just a salty fan here :oldlol:
dude is such a *******

[TheMan]

Correction(s):


2. He joined Wade because he didnt have the luxury of a franchise giving him everything on a silverplate at his doorstep (supporting cast etc.) like Kobe, Jordan, Magic, Bird etc.... they were not in his situation, they didnt have to move a finger... he was patient for 7 years and Mo Williams was the best that franchise could chalk up next to him, he figured either stay and waste his prime/career like that, ringless.... or move along...

Pauk, don't even try and put MJ's situation as being the same as Kobe, Magic and Bird. The Celtics and Lakers have won before those players were in their franchise, not so the Bulls. How many titles do the Bulls have before or after the MJ era? MJ was in the SAME EXACT SITUATION LBJ was in, a franchise with no prior championship experience except MJ stuck it out and LBJ joined another elite player plus an All Star PF to boot.

MJ got nothing handed to him in a silverplate you fakktard, Grant and Pippen were drafted, they weren't seasoned players brought in. The Bulls biggest move pre-title years was Oakley for Cartwright, a move MJ didn't even like to begin with (they were best friends). Later on, the other big move was bringing in Rodman who wasn't garnering much interest in the league because he was seen as a disruptive player in San Antonio.

Get yer shit straight, fool. MJ made that organization, something LeBron chose not to do with Cleveland.

[DMAVS41]

Jordan is probably the only player in NBA history that should be able to talk about ring count with Lebron. I totally disagree with MJ's take that rings should decide the Lebron vs Kobe debate because no version of Kobe is winning a ring with any team Lebron played with on the Cavs.

But MJ would probably have won 1 or 2...and certainly would have won in 11 against the Mavs.

[Ne 1]

Pauk, don't even try and put MJ's situation as being the same as Kobe, Magic and Bird. The Celtics and Lakers have won before those players were in their franchise, not so the Bulls. How many titles do the Bulls have before or after the MJ era? MJ was in the SAME EXACT SITUATION LBJ was in, a franchise with no prior championship experience except MJ stuck it out and LBJ joined another elite player plus an All Star PF to boot.

MJ got nothing handed to him in a silverplate you fakktard, Grant and Pippen were drafted, they weren't seasoned players brought in. The Bulls biggest move pre-title years was Oakley for Cartwright, a move MJ didn't even like to begin with (they were best friends). Later on, the other big move was bringing in Rodman who wasn't garnering much interest in the league because he was seen as a disruptive player in San Antonio.

Get yer shit straight, fool. MJ made that organization, something LeBron chose not to do with Cleveland.

This. The difference is that the dynasty Celtics, Lakers and Bulls great teams (as well as every other great teams) were all built through the draft and-or luring in veteran players at the right time.

What we have with the Heat is 3 superstar players who are all in their prime that colluded to come together on the same team.

That's not the same as the Lakers signing a veteran Kareem and then years later, drafting Magic and then more years later, drafting Worthy. That isn't the same as the Lakers signing Shaq with no other superstars on the team and then taking a chance on a 17 year old kid named Kobe Bryant in the middle of the first round coming right out of high school. Not the same as the Celtics drafting Bird and McHale, then bringing in Parish a year later. That's not the same as the Bulls drafting Jordan and then years later, drafting Pippen and Grant and then after Grant went to Orlando and Chicago ironically losing to Orlando in '95 signing a veteran Rodman.

Totally different structure than 3 players who were are all among the best in the game conspiring to leave their teams in the primes of their careers to all play together at the same time. But your point about the Celtics winning championships before Bird is moot. The fact that Boston won championships in early 70s and 60s is irrelevant. The fact is that the Celtics were one of the worst teams in the league when Bird was drafted there and in just one season his presence made them into a contender. Larry would have done this no matter where he went. If you need more convincing about this, just consider the Indiana State Team he took to the National Championship game.

[PJR]

This. The difference is that the dynasty Celtics, Lakers and Bulls great teams (as well as every other great teams) were all built through the draft and-or luring in veteran players at the right time.

What we have with the Heat is 3 superstar players who are all in their prime that colluded to come together on the same team.

That's not the same as the Lakers signing a veteran Kareem and then years later, drafting Magic and then more years later, drafting Worthy. That isn't the same as the Lakers signing Shaq with no other superstars on the team and then taking a chance on a 17 year old kid named Kobe Bryant in the middle of the first round coming right out of high school. Not the same as the Celtics drafting Bird and McHale, then bringing in Parish a year later. That's not the same as the Bulls drafting Jordan and then years later, drafting Pippen and Grant and then after Grant went to Orlando and Chicago ironically losing to Orlando in '95 signing a veteran Rodman.



Who ****ing cares? :confusedshrug:

How a team gets on the floor together is COMPLETLY irrelevent. What they do while on it is not.

[DMAVS41]

This. The difference is that the dynasty Celtics, Lakers and Bulls great teams (as well as every other great teams) were all built through the draft and-or luring in veteran players at the right time.

What we have with the Heat is 3 superstar players who are all in their prime that colluded to come together on the same team.

That's not the same as the Lakers signing a veteran Kareem and then years later, drafting Magic and then more years later, drafting Worthy. That isn't the same as the Lakers signing Shaq with no other superstars on the team and then taking a chance on a 17 year old kid named Kobe Bryant in the middle of the first round coming right out of high school. Not the same as the Celtics drafting Bird and McHale, then bringing in Parish a year later. That's not the same as the Bulls drafting Jordan and then years later, drafting Pippen and Grant and then after Grant went to Orlando and Chicago ironically losing to Orlando in '95 signing a veteran Rodman.

Totally different structure than 3 players who were are all among the best in the game conspiring to leave their teams in the primes of their careers to all play together at the same time. But your point about the Celtics winning championships before Bird is moot. The fact that Boston won championships in early 70s and 60s is irrelevant. The fact is that the Celtics were one of the worst teams in the league when Bird was drafted there and in just one season his presence made them into a contender. Larry would have done this no matter where he went. If you need more convincing about this, just consider the Indiana State Team he took to the National Championship game.

Not sure it matters how a team is formed unless it gets into an area of just competitively unfair...which the Heat of course are not.

[RRR3]

You don't even play sports, so you wouldn't know how it is to compete.
I played soccer for a lot of my life, as well as tennis and basketball at camps when I was younger. You don't know shit about me, go back to fellating Kobe.

[The Iron Fist]

I played soccer for a lot of my life, as well as tennis and basketball at camps when I was younger. You don't know shit about me, go back to fellating Kobe.
SNES doesn't count.

[ripthekik]

He colluded with two other top-tier superstar players in the league because he couldn't handle the pressure of being the man. He had to take the easy way out to win fabricated titles.
:applause: excellent post

[RRR3]

Look at the Black Mamba's Black Mamba!
:biggums:

[ripthekik]

I played soccer for a lot of my life, as well as tennis and basketball at camps when I was younger. You don't know shit about me, go back to fellating Kobe.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[longtime lurker]

Rings were so unimportant to Lebron that he colluded with two other superstars to stack their team insanely in their favour. Yeah right

[KOBE143]

LeBrick is so insecure with his precious .5 ring.. He doesnt want people to define his career with just half ring that he won by joining two superstars in their primes to build a super team.. LeBron still butthurt that the GOAT choose Kobe over him.. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

This. The difference is that the dynasty Celtics, Lakers and Bulls great teams (as well as every other great teams) were all built through the draft and-or luring in veteran players at the right time.

What we have with the Heat is 3 superstar players who are all in their prime that colluded to come together on the same team.

That's not the same as the Lakers signing a veteran Kareem and then years later, drafting Magic and then more years later, drafting Worthy. That isn't the same as the Lakers signing Shaq with no other superstars on the team and then taking a chance on a 17 year old kid named Kobe Bryant in the middle of the first round coming right out of high school. Not the same as the Celtics drafting Bird and McHale, then bringing in Parish a year later. That's not the same as the Bulls drafting Jordan and then years later, drafting Pippen and Grant and then after Grant went to Orlando and Chicago ironically losing to Orlando in '95 signing a veteran Rodman.

Totally different structure than 3 players who were are all among the best in the game conspiring to leave their teams in the primes of their careers to all play together at the same time. But your point about the Celtics winning championships before Bird is moot. The fact that Boston won championships in early 70s and 60s is irrelevant. The fact is that the Celtics were one of the worst teams in the league when Bird was drafted there and in just one season his presence made them into a contender. Larry would have done this no matter where he went. If you need more convincing about this, just consider the Indiana State Team he took to the National Championship game.
Yall really have to let the Lebron decision thing go. He went to a team he still had to score the most points, the most rebounds and get the most assist in the regular season, the post season and the finals while being their best defender while playing four positions to get the title. Something that only he's done since the league began. A decision that I don't see Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird or even Duncan (who nearly pulled off the same feat) doing.

In Cleveland he's not loaded down like that and wouldn't have that burden. He's still on a team where he's the best player at all five positions as well as being, at least very close, the best defender at all five positions. The top 10 GOAT (no exceptions) can't win it all on a team like that. On all of the better teams now, Lebron wouldn't have to be the best at everything. Remember Bosh missed most of the playoffs last year and Wade was off in the finals.

Lebron wasn't a GM and he joined a team that doesn't have the complimentary pieces of Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls or even today's Lakers. That team in OKC is very well conceived. On all of those teams you know whose going to get the rebounds, assist, block shots, steals and kill on defense. The Heat are an ill conceived team with the three best players having the same strengths, but the players sacrifice and work it out. Name me a championship team where the back court player had to be the best rebounder in the regular season, playoff, finals? No Rodman, no best help defender ever, no deep post player, no double double guys, no protection at the rim, and the primary help was a guy whose strengths are the same as his. As a human you should always make the best decision to match your goals. Its better than having others make it for you.

[TMT]

I thought Bron's new thing was to shut up and let his game do the talking.

One [correct] quote from MJ and this guy is hella sensitive and fragile again.

[DMAVS41]

Yall really have to let the Lebron decision thing go. He went to a team he still had to score the most points, the most rebounds and get the most assist in the regular season, the post season and the finals while being their best defender while playing four positions to get the title. Something that only he's done since the league began. A decision that I don't see Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird or even Duncan (who nearly pulled off the same feat) doing.

In Cleveland he's not loaded down like that and wouldn't have that burden. He's still on a team where he's the best player at all five positions as well as being, at least very close, the best defender at all five positions. The top 10 GOAT (no exceptions) can't win it all on a team like that. On all of the better teams now, Lebron wouldn't have to be the best at everything. Remember Bosh missed most of the playoffs last year and Wade was off in the finals.

Lebron wasn't a GM and he joined a team that doesn't have the complimentary pieces of Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers, Jordan's Bulls or even today's Lakers. That team in OKC is very well conceived. On all of those teams you know whose going to get the rebounds, assist, block shots, steals and kill on defense. The Heat are an ill conceived team with the three best players having the same strengths, but the players sacrifice and work it out. Name me a championship team where the back court player had to be the best rebounder in the regular season, playoff, finals? No Rodman, no best help defender ever, no deep post player, no double double guys, no protection at the rim, and the primary help was a guy whose strengths are the same as his. As a human you should always make the best decision to match your goals. Its better than having others make it for you.

I think other people are mainly just talking about joining another superstar in Wade. Which I see their point to an extent. However, people need to stop referring to Bosh as a superstar. He is not. He is a really good all star type player....nothing more.

But your point is a good one. Wade and Lebron and Bosh did join up, but the team they have formed is hardly this great team the likes that the old Celtics, Lakers, and Bulls were.

What is even funnier to me throughout this whole thing is that it seems if Lebron had gone to Chicago and joined them...that nobody would have called him out nearly as much for "joining up" or whatever. But if he had joined the Bulls, it would have been a joke for the rest of the league. Game over...with or without Rose. And maybe the Heat will rattle off 3 or 4 titles, but I don't think the Bulls with Lebron would ever lose for a huge chunk of years.

[LeBird]

Jordan is probably the only player in NBA history that should be able to talk about ring count with Lebron. I totally disagree with MJ's take that rings should decide the Lebron vs Kobe debate because no version of Kobe is winning a ring with any team Lebron played with on the Cavs.

But MJ would probably have won 1 or 2...and certainly would have won in 11 against the Mavs.

Yeah, he really showed how good he was at lifting his team's fortunes when the Bulls were crap...er actually that never happened.

People need to hop off Lebron's lap. Whether by draft, by trades or moving himself; it doesn't matter as the argument used to beat Lebron is that he needed help.

Well, every player has needed help. Now people are clutching straws talking about how other players got strong teams differently.

[DMAVS41]

Yeah, he really showed how good he was at lifting his team's fortunes when the Bulls were crap...er actually that never happened.

People need to hop off Lebron's lap. Whether by draft, by trades or moving himself; it doesn't matter as the argument used to beat Lebron is that he needed help.

Well, every player has needed help. Now people are clutching straws talking about how other players got strong teams differently.

I'm on Lebron's side on this, but I just think MJ would have won in 09 or 10 on the Cavs. Just my opinion though. Only player that I've seen that I would say that about is MJ.

[BrickingStar]

I'm on Lebron's side on this, but I just think MJ would have won in 09 or 10 on the Cavs. Just my opinion though. Only player that I've seen that I would say that about is MJ.
Maybe but I'll say no at the age of 24.

[SilkkTheShocker]

People are upset that LeBron went out and found good teammates since Cleveland obviously couldn't. They would rather him put up stats on crappy Cleveland teams for the rest of his career. People are mad now that he is a threat to their team's chances of winning a title. Thats all there is to it. Thats why LeBron haters were begging for him to stay in Cleveland. They knew he wasn't much of a threat playing with Mo Williams (aka the Clippers 6th man last year) and other assorted crap. It's easy for guys like Magic to say he would have never teamed up with Bird or Jordan. You want to know why? Because he was already on the most stacked team in the NBA.Every star players needs help. Even the guys who won titles without that much help (Hakeem 94, TD 03,) had role players that could step in and hit clutch shots.

[The_Yearning]

People are upset that LeBron went out and found good teammates since Cleveland obviously couldn't. They would rather him put up stats on crappy Cleveland teams for the rest of his career. People are mad now that he is a threat to their team's chances of winning a title. Thats all there is to it. Thats why LeBron haters were begging for him to stay in Cleveland. They knew he wasn't much of a threat playing with Mo Williams (aka the Clippers 6th man last year) and other assorted crap. It's easy for guys like Magic to say he would have never teamed up with Bird or Jordan. You want to know why? Because he was already on the most stacked team in the NBA.Every star players needs help. Even the guys who won titles without that much help (Hakeem 94, TD 03,) had role players that could step in and hit clutch shots.

So you saying TD and the Dream wasn't clutch? LBJ was a choker before facing a bigger choker in Durant and Harden.

[PJR]

I'm on Lebron's side on this, but I just think MJ would have won in 09 or 10 on the Cavs. Just my opinion though. Only player that I've seen that I would say that about is MJ.

Don't think so. Maybe in 2009 when Garnett was hurt. But then again, there's nothing Jordan could've done to prevent Dwight Howard from tossing Big Z like a rag doll, and Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu both drilling threes out of their asses. LeBron averaged 38/8/8 in that series. Nothing much more he could've done from a production standpoint. :confusedshrug:

[SilkkTheShocker]

So you saying TD and the Dream wasn't clutch? LBJ was a choker before facing a bigger choker in Durant and Harden.


Do you know how to read? I never said Duncan or Hakeem were never clutch. You do realize that when superstar players are double-teamed, they rely on their teammates to hit the open shots. You realize this, right?

[DMAVS41]

Maybe but I'll say no at the age of 24.

So you don't think MJ was better than Lebron? Because it is not like they were far off. Literally a few plays against the Magic in 09 and they win that series.

[DMAVS41]

Don't think so. Maybe in 2009 when Garnett was hurt. But then again, there's nothing Jordan could've done to prevent Dwight Howard from tossing Big Z like a rag doll, and Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu both drilling threes out of their asses. LeBron averaged 38/8/8 in that series. Nothing much more he could've done from a production standpoint. :confusedshrug:

See. This is where I have to disagree and I think people that never saw MJ play just don't understand.

Jordan might have averaged 45 in a series like that...he was that good.

[TMT]

People are upset that LeBron went out and found good teammates since Cleveland obviously couldn't. They would rather him put up stats on crappy Cleveland teams for the rest of his career. People are mad now that he is a threat to their team's chances of winning a title. Thats all there is to it. Thats why LeBron haters were begging for him to stay in Cleveland. They knew he wasn't much of a threat playing with Mo Williams (aka the Clippers 6th man last year) and other assorted crap. It's easy for guys like Magic to say he would have never teamed up with Bird or Jordan. You want to know why? Because he was already on the most stacked team in the NBA.Every star players needs help. Even the guys who won titles without that much help (Hakeem 94, TD 03,) had role players that could step in and hit clutch shots.

I don't think it has as much to do with others wanting Lebron to stay in Cleveland as him going to a too stacked of a team. He could have gone to Chicago or New York and had good teammates, but instead he went to Miami to have GREAT teammates. It's not like elsewhere he wouldn't have been able to attract the Shane Battiers, Mike Millers and Ray Allens from free agency. But the fact is he could have been on top of the league with a lot less help and in a sense went overboard when it comes to the talent he wanted around him.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think it has as much to do with others wanting Lebron to stay in Cleveland as him going to a too stacked of a team. He could have gone to Chicago or New York and had good teammates, but instead he went to Miami to have GREAT teammates. It's not like elsewhere he wouldn't have been able to attract the Shane Battiers, Mike Millers and Ray Allens from free agency. But the fact is he could have been on top of the league with a lot less help and in a sense went overboard when it comes to the talent he wanted around him.

the bulls with Lebron would be so much better than the Heat currently imo.

[SilkkTheShocker]

See. This is where I have to disagree and I think people that never saw MJ play just don't understand.

Jordan might have averaged 45 in a series like that...he was that good.


Scoring wasn't the problem though. Cleveland couldn't guard Orlando and their shooters. Everytime they didn't double Dwight, he scored. Everytime they doubled him he found a shooter that would knock it down. I mean their whole bench got outscored by Pietrus for the series

[BrickingStar]

So you don't think MJ was better than Lebron? Because it is not like they were far off. Literally a few plays against the Magic in 09 and they win that series.
Lot's of different things might have happened if it was MJ instead of bron, I don't think MJ at 24 was good/smart enough to win it with the cavs in those years. The number 1 player on that team doesn't make much of a difference.

[PJR]

See. This is where I have to disagree and I think people that never saw MJ play just don't understand.

Jordan might have averaged 45 in a series like that...he was that good.

Well I watched every last year of Michael in his prime. I'm 29 years old.

And Jordan could and would score 45 a game, and that still wouldn't negate the mismatches that Orlando had in their favor against that Cleveland supporting cast.

[DMAVS41]

Scoring wasn't the problem though. Cleveland couldn't guard Orlando and their shooters. Everytime they didn't double Dwight, he scored. Everytime they doubled him he found a shooter that would knock it down. I mean their whole bench got outscored by Pietrus for the series

I understand, but you act like it wasn't a really close series. It was extremely close. And as good as Lebron is/was...MJ was simply better....even if we say he was only marginally better, that might have been enough to change the outcome.

I think Lebron is amazing. Has a chance to go down in the top 5 all time. And I'd agree with you about every other player I've ever seen. But MJ is just a different animal.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I don't think it has as much to do with others wanting Lebron to stay in Cleveland as him going to a too stacked of a team. He could have gone to Chicago or New York and had good teammates, but instead he went to Miami to have GREAT teammates. It's not like elsewhere he wouldn't have been able to attract the Shane Battiers, Mike Millers and Ray Allens from free agency. But the fact is he could have been on top of the league with a lot less help and in a sense went overboard when it comes to the talent he wanted around him.


I don't know LeBron personally, so I can't say what was on his mind at the time. But I think at the end of the day when he had that meeting with Pat Riley, he was sold on Miami. I think the Knicks bad management scared him away. Hard to say with Chicago. But I think a lot of it had to do was the fact he is best friends with Wade.

[DMAVS41]

Well I watched every last year of Michael in his prime. I'm 29 years old.

And Jordan could and would score 45 a game, and that still wouldn't negate the mismatches that Orlando had in their favor against that Cleveland supporting cast.

Of course it wouldn't negate the mismatches, but you people are acting like it wasn't a really close series.

Lets try this a different way. Do you think MJ was better than Lebron? And if so, try and quantify it as best you can.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I understand, but you act like it wasn't a really close series. It was extremely close. And as good as Lebron is/was...MJ was simply better....even if we say he was only marginally better, that might have been enough to change the outcome.

I think Lebron is amazing. Has a chance to go down in the top 5 all time. And I'd agree with you about every other player I've ever seen. But MJ is just a different animal.


All im saying is the series was lost on defense. If they are going to win with Jordan, it would be because he had a bigger defensive impact that series.

[DMAVS41]

All im saying is the series was lost on defense. If they are going to win with Jordan, it would be because he had a bigger defensive impact that series.

Okay...that is fine. And Jordan certainly was a better defender than Lebron at that time.

[BrickingStar]

Okay...that is fine. And Jordan certainly was a better defender than Lebron at that time.
Good thing it was lebron's defense that lost them the series

[SilkkTheShocker]

Okay...that is fine. And Jordan certainly was a better defender than Lebron at that time.


In hindsight, Brown should have just let Howard try to beat them on his own and stayed at home on the shooters. Like Atlanta did in 2011.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Good thing it was lebron's defense that lost them the series

The sad part is that if Mo Williams or even Big Z play just average, they probably win. Mo Williams got progressively worse each playoff series.

[PJR]

Of course it wouldn't negate the mismatches, but you people are acting like it wasn't a really close series.

Lets try this a different way. Do you think MJ was better than Lebron? And if so, try and quantify it as best you can.

Yes, I think Michael is better than LeBron. Raw ability and skills aside, I think he's possesses more mental fortitude as well. However I still hold enough perspective to know that basketball is a team game, and that matchups matter. Also coaching.

[DMAVS41]

In hindsight, Brown should have just let Howard try to beat them on his own and stayed at home on the shooters. Like Atlanta did in 2011.

Yea. You could always play that game though looking back. The truth is that the Magic caught fire and the Cavs outside of Lebron sucked. I'm of course not blaming Lebron or anything like that.

I'm just trying to point out that there was a player that is essentially universally accepted to be better than Lebron (certainly at that time) that might have been good enough to sway a series that was already extremely close.

[DMAVS41]

Yes, I think Michael is better than LeBron. Raw ability and skills aside, I think he's possesses more mental fortitude as well. However I still hold enough perspective to know that basketball is a team game, and that matchups matter.

Of course. There is no way to prove any of this stuff. My logic is simple. MJ was better than Lebron...and just had this ability in the playoffs that really I've only seen a handful of times.

And we are talking about a series that was extremely close. I think MJ finds a way to win game 4...and then the series in 7.

[BrickingStar]

Yea. You could always play that game though looking back. The truth is that the Magic caught fire and the Cavs outside of Lebron sucked. I'm of course not blaming Lebron or anything like that.

I'm just trying to point out that there was a player that is essentially universally accepted to be better than Lebron (certainly at that time) that might have been good enough to sway a series that was already extremely close.
and it wasn't MJ for it was Russell.

[Simple Jack]

Of course. There is no way to prove any of this stuff. My logic is simple. MJ was better than Lebron...and just had this ability in the playoffs that really I've only seen a handful of times.

And we are talking about a series that was extremely close. I think MJ finds a way to win game 4...and then the series in 7.

A few of the late plays in those games were out of LeBron's hands.

Also, would MJ have put together that 4th quarter in game 5 that LeBron did, in addition to the game winner earlier in the series? It's a guessing game at that point but it's hard to say anyone would have done better than what Bron did in that series, as a whole.