If you loved the way MJ played and approached the game...how can you hate Kobe?

[crisoner]

Think about that for a minute.

The people who hate Kobe saying he is trying to be like Mike back in the day is a dumb argument to begin with.

But if you truly loved Mike's game you should respect Kobe's.

They both have score first assassin like mentality's.
This is not saying Kobe is on MJ's level etc. But the type of game they both play. The success they have both had being competitive a-holes.

When Jordan first entered the NBA...I have to say the best teams played more of a team game. Magic and the Lakers...Bird and the Celtics. Yes they had main stars who ran those teams but the ball was spread out...not so much individual one on one plays etc.

Jordan...ruined that.
And he influenced the next generation of stars to play the same way. To want to be like Mike. Not saying that it is a bad thing....but it's been a whole since a team like the early 00's Kings played. That was a great team...the ball moved well and they were the greatest show on court.

But we do have LeBron.....who is a great passers and feed off his teammates well. I am and will always be a Magic Johnson fan for the way he played the game. And though I dislike many things about LeBron....I love his game.

Point of starting this thread...certain individuals need to stop hating.

[DMV2]

I'm beginning to like and respect Kobe's game in recent years. His longevity to stay as an MVP-caliber player year after year is impressive. My hate for him is because of how overhyped and overmarketed he was during his first 7 years in the league. He got a heat between 1997-2004, which for most part was reasonable. He was marketed to be greater than he actually was.

I guess, that's more to due with the media trying to replace Jordan than the man himself. And for all the hate I have on Kobe, I've always liked his personality. Dude's articulate, well-spoken and less of an attention whore than most athletes. His on-the-court and post-game after a loss personality is a bit of a turnoff though but that's probably because of his desire to succeed. He just hates losing, which you gotta respect and admire.

Oh, and Jordan got heat too back in the days. Mainly for being "selfish" and a ball-hog. You name it, he got equal share amount of hate too. Though without message boards back then, it was mostly discussed in school yards, b-ball parks, YMCA, ect.

[sic]

He has no Leadership Quality. All his teams fell apart if SHAQ or Phil were not the leaders.

[thelucifer69]

Kobe Bryant's shot selection

MJ rarely took bad shot.

[Clifton]

Think about that for a minute.

The people who hate Kobe saying he is trying to be like Mike back in the day is a dumb argument to begin with.

But if you truly loved Mike's game you should respect Kobe's.
I really like Tupac. Does that mean I have to like Immortal Technique too?

I really like the original Star Wars trilogy. Does that mean I have to like Clone Wars?

[crisoner]

He has no Leadership Quality. All his teams fell apart if SHAQ or Phil were not the leaders.

Let's see....

Shaq left because he wanted max money and the Lakers FO aka Dr. Buss was sick of him coming in to the year fat and out of shape. Shaq even refused to get surgery during the offseason and choose to when the season started because he wanted to do it on "company time".

Yes...that was clearly Kobe's fault huh.

And the last back to back title teams...

Lamar left because of Kobe?
Gasol.....with Kobe standing by his side for him to stay on the team wants to leave because of Kobe?
Dwight???? Well.......maybe you have a case there maybe. But that dude seems to have problems.

So please.....

Elaborate why Kobe's leadership broke down with wining 5 titles on two different teams. This would be great to hear.

[Ne 1]

Yeah, I never understood why MJ stans hate on Kobe for wanting to "be like Mike". These are the same people who all grew up wanting to be like Mike. Kobe Bryant is exactly who they would be if they could hoop, he respects their favorite player more than they do! Confused people I tell ya.

I think it's weird how people could be a fan of one and not the other. They are so similar, that how could seeing one not conjure up images of the other?

The same goes however for Kobe fans and Jordan haters. How can you hate one and not the other? Kobe based his game off what Michael Jordan was as a player.

I also find it funny that whenever Kobe haters talk about Kobe, the first thing they say is "he's not Michael Jordan!"

What exactly does that mean? Jordan is widely regarded as the greatest basketball player who ever lived - is not being better than him a bad thing? I wonder if I brought a 8’7” man into these peoples living room if the first words out there mouth be, “he isn’t the tallest man to ever live.” I’m guessing they would be thinking more along the lines of, I don’t know if he is the tallest person to ever live but he damn sure is tall, and if he isn’t the tallest person ever, he sure is close. Saying Kobe is no Jordan really isn’t saying anything, its just ignoring who he is because of who he is not. In all a lot of players based their games off Jordan. Bryant was just the most successful. Yes, Jordan is better than Kobe, but Kobe is the closest thing we have ever seen to Jordan.

[crisoner]

Kobe Bryant's shot selection

MJ rarely took bad shot.

I'd say good point. Jordan did take higher percentage looks.

[BrickingStar]

I'm beginning to like and respect Kobe's game in recent years. His longevity to stay as an MVP-caliber player year after year is impressive. My hate for him is because of how overhyped and overmarketed he was during his first 7 years in the league. He got a heat between 1997-2004, which for most part was reasonable. He was marketed to be greater than he actually was.

I guess, that's more to due with the media trying to replace Jordan than the man himself. And for all the hate I have on Kobe, I've always liked his personality. Dude's articulate, well-spoken and less of an attention whore than most athletes. His on-the-court and post-game after a loss personality is a bit of a turnoff though but that's probably because of his desire to succeed. He just hates losing, which you gotta respect and admire.

Oh, and Jordan got heat too back in the days. Mainly for being "selfish" and a ball-hog. You name it, he got equal share amount of hate too. Though without message boards back then, it was mostly discussed in school yards, b-ball parks, YMCA, ect.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2547946_o.gif

[crisoner]

I really like Tupac. Does that mean I have to like Immortal Technique too?

I really like the original Star Wars trilogy. Does that mean I have to like Clone Wars?


Dumb example...

no Kobe isn't as good as Jordan but he is still a legend in his own right.

That would be more like if you like the Godfather you should like the Godfather 2 as well.

[Zedja]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2547946_o.gif
Yes you are.

[plowking]

Most people don't like such a precise form of imitation. Especially if it falls short of what we have previously seen, which Kobe does in this regard. As do all players, since MJ is the best, but Kobe in particular gets criticism from fans due to being such a diligent and obsessive imitator down to the tee.

On the court he takes bad shots, shoots a lower percentage, appears to be more greedy than MJ was, etc.
Not to mention he lives in an era where everything is more scrutinized and constantly has millions of eyes on him.

[DMV2]

He'll be appreciated by "haters" once he's retired. I mean, he's already getting a lot of love and respect from the media, fellow players both active and retirees.

Dirk and Wade just recently said he's the greatest of "our generation."

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ and Kobe are two completely different players. So yeah, NO.


On the court he takes bad shots, shoots a lower percentage, appears to be more greedy than MJ was, etc.
Not to mention he lives in an era where everything is more scrutinized and constantly has millions of eyes on him.

Yep

[Nevaeh]

Why is it so important to Kobe fans like yourself that Jordan fans like Kobe? They're two different players, with different approaches to the game. It's like back in the day, you had peeps who loved Magic, but hated Isiah Thomas, loved Barkley but hated Malone, loved Hakeem but hated Shaq, etc.

It's called personal preference. And no matter how many times you guys are given the reasons why Jordan fans don't like Kobe, you chose to ignore them anyway, wait around a week or two and then come with the same tired "you should appreciate Kobe, he's the closest thing to MJ" rhetoric over and over again.

It's just the nature of sports and fanhood, and it's always been that way. If you like your guy or team, fine. Just like your personal taste in music, movies and clothes is unique to you, not everybody's gonna have the same preferences that you do.

It's also what keeps the Board interesting.

:cheers:

[Nevaeh]

MJ and Kobe are two completely different players. So yeah, NO.



Yep

A minute apart, but on the same page. Happy "Jordan Day" Kuniva.

:cheers:

[HardwoodLegend]

I don't get why people fault Kobe for "imitating" MJ. If it didn't come natural to him, he wouldn't be this good.

He's playing how his body, which happens to be the same height as MJ, naturally moves. Or did he imitate his way to being 6'6 too?

[Nevaeh]

I don't get why people fault Kobe for "imitating" MJ. If it didn't come natural to him, he wouldn't be this good.

He's playing how his body, which happens to be the same height as MJ, naturally moves. Or did he imitate his way to being 6'6 too?

You can totally leave the "Imitating MJ" aspect out of it, and it would still be the same for some people. Durant plays absolutely NOTHING like Lebron, but you have Lebron fans here that despise KD and vice versa.

[BrickingStar]

I don't get why people fault Kobe for "imitating" MJ. If it didn't come natural to him, he wouldn't be this good.

He's playing how his body, which happens to be the same height as MJ, naturally moves. Or did he imitate his way to being 6'6 too?
Style of Play = Natural body movements which factor not just HEIGHT as you said but an incredible amount of other different variables to differ from other beings, Interesting. With your mind blowing logic of height, I guess Melo has played just Like LeBron this whole time without me noticing.

[delmar]

Kobe is just a ''bad'' copy of Michael Jordan...

[DuMa]

I like his approach to the game. I respect Kobe's play. He's just massively overrated by his fans and the media. Hes a LONG ways from ever matching what Mike could do on the floor and off the court as well. There is no comparison.

[f0und]

because kobe is a very cheap imitation of jordan. and his fans are one of the worst fanbases in sports.

[9512]

Watching Kobe is like watching a fake Bruce Lee.

the real Bruce Lee is MJ.

[Myth]

Kobe Bryant's shot selection

MJ rarely took bad shot.

This. Plus leadership style (Kobe has thrown way more teammates under the bus to the media). The biggest reason I don't like Kobe though is simply because he plays for the Lakers. Also: Rape.

[Ancient Legend]

In all seriousness, I hated Kobe (like Eli Manning) since they would refuse to play for the teams that would draft them (Hornets & Chargers). They are spoiled brats, since both are sons of former pro players.

I hate even more the way that Kobe refused to acknowledge MJ as an influence, instead citing Magic as his favorite player while growing up. That's the definition of horseshit.

And once you've seen MJ play, anyone who tries to play exactly like him, even copying his mannerisms and his tone of voice during interviews, comes off as a cheap unoriginal knockoff.

Watching MJ is like watching the original Star Wars in IMAX, watching Kobe is like watching a 480p cam version of Phantom Menace on a Netbook.

[gengiskhan]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.

[Myth]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.

:applause:

[diamenz]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.

shut 'em down.

[Psileas]

Watching Kobe is like watching a fake Bruce Lee.

the real Bruce Lee is MJ.

No, Kobe is a legend. A fake Bruce Lee is a nobody, he has no significant personal identity. Kobe is Jackie Chan, not someone that nobody cares about.

[Ne 1]

In all seriousness, I hated Kobe (like Eli Manning) since they would refuse to play for the teams that would draft them (Hornets & Chargers
Kobe never refused to play for the Hornets. That myth has been debunked.

[Segatti]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.


Poor 45% fg :facepalm :facepalm

[Jailblazers7]

MJ marketed himself better and created an iconic image. Kobe hasnt done the same job of turning his competitiveness into a marketable image.

[Rysio]

when your the greatest your gonna have haters. deal with it op.

[tontoz]

Kobe has always taken too many long jumpers for a guy who can beat his man off the dribble consistently. Last year he took 13 shots per game outside 16 feet which is ridiculous.

[DMAVS41]

I would imagine the hate is in large part due to his fans. Also, nobody likes to see people do well so early on. Kobe was blessed early on in his career with his team/coach...and a lot of people don't like to see that.

Also...he's always been kind of fake.

His game is amazing though...one of the 10 or so best players ever. Over-rated by some...under-rated by some. And what he's doing in year 17 is remarkable. But so is what Duncan is doing this year as well. I bring that up simply because I think the fact that Kobe gets so much attention pisses a lot of basketball purists or fans of other players/teams off. Like that old poll in which Kobe won player of the generation by a landslide. Not Kobe's fault at all that fans voted that way, but people take their anger out on guys like Kobe and Lebron for that stuff.

[secund2nun]

Because MJ was legit. Kobe is just one of the most overrated athletes of all time.

[gengiskhan]

Because MJ was legit. Kobe is just one of the most overrated athletes of all time.

This.

Many say If MJ is Bruce Lee, Kobe is Jackie chan

NOT!

If MJ = Bruce Lee, Magic = Jackie Chan,

kobe is a notch below

Kobe = Jet li or Jason Statham.

[gengiskhan]

Poor 45% fg :facepalm :facepalm

The reason why I keep bringing that up is because kobe is a "SHOOTING" Guard

& His overall shot selection is so average that he literally "SHOOTS" his team out of playoff contentions or Playoff series with it.

Thats like an irony in itself.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Kobe Bryant's shot selection

MJ rarely took bad shot.
so you hate kobe because he has bad shot selection?

[f0und]

This.

Many say If MJ is Bruce Lee, Kobe is Jackie chan

NOT!

If MJ = Bruce Lee, Magic = Jackie Chan,

kobe is a notch below

Kobe = Jet li or Jason Statham.

kobe is a steven seagall.

[f0und]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.

i think that about sums it up.

[Odinn]

MJ got to 32+ ppg within the "triangle offense" system.
Kobe-ball system allowed him to shotjock ball hog to 30 ppgs with poor 45%FG.

MJ was terrific off the ball player.
Kobe sucks at it if the ball isnt in his hands.

MJ played KILLER defense. Kobe dont got enough stamina to play good solid defense for 40 mins consistently

MJ got better & better & better as he got older.
Kobe got worse & worse & worse as he got older.

MJ performances got better Reg sea <<Post-sesasons << Finals.
Kobe performances worsened Reg seas >> Post-season >> Finals.

MJ carried below average front court Big men.
Kobe got Carried by NBAs best or most talented big men front court of LAL.

MJ has "iconic signature" moments from NCAA to NBA to Playoffs to Finals.
Kobe has NONE.

MJ changed the NBA forever to a point the rules were deliberately changed to produce MJ like offensive games.
Kobe CHEAPLY immitated 60% of MJ on offense alone.
Actually I hate this troll. But this time, he has got somethings right this time.

Jordan's shot selection is much better. Jordan was the better off-ball player. Jordan was capable of playing at the goat perimeter defense level while playing at the goat offense level. I'm not saying Kobe is/was not a good playoff performer but Jordan almost elevated his game through the playoffs better, significantly. Only categories that I can name for Kobe being better than Jordan, 3 pointers and arguably footwork.

[gengiskhan]

Actually I hate this troll. But this time, he has got somethings right this time.

Jordan's shot selection is much better. Jordan was the better off-ball player. Jordan was capable of playing at the goat perimeter defense level while playing at the goat offense level. I'm not saying Kobe is/was not a good playoff performer but Jordan almost elevated his game through the playoffs better, significantly. Only categories that I can name for Kobe being better than Jordan, 3 pointers and arguably footwork.

thanks for the love

BUT

dude seriously!

Kobe footwork at MJs level. :rolleyes:

Only player with better footwork than MJ was Hakeem.

Kobe aint even close. Its just that Kobe has the best footwork of the modern day greats.

I still haven't seen better footwork than 1984-1993 MJ besides Hakeems.

As Clyde said recently, "MJ had the quickest feet in the business ever. In a blink of an eye, he passed you"

[Micku]

Their play styles are very similar, but there are a few differences in their games which makes MJ more efficient and better within the team game.

MJ is a better off the ball player. He could catch and shoot. He come come off of screens and shoot the ball. Kobe doesn't do this since he needs to dribble to get into rhythm. He also don't take many dribbles once he get into position in the post or iso. He's quicker to attack whatever he drives or shoot the jumper.

MJ also had better shot selection. Not to say MJ don't take bad shots himself, but he took much better shots than Kobe. Kobe sometimes dribble to a corner and takes some weird fadeaway shots over two or three defenders.

MJ also had better stamina and played better on defense. He also had quicker hands and reflexes. He played the passing lane better and if you are not careful he would steal the ball. He is top 3 in steals in NBA history, ahead of Gary Payton and just below of Jason Kidd and John Stockton.

Those are pretty much the main differences. While Kobe doesn't have MJ athletic ability, he definitely have the skills. He just couldn't do those things as well as MJ did unfortunately. Mainly because of his IQ. But Kobe is a great player in his own right. Both players do shoot a lot and sometimes it's a flaw.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Insecurity is the only reason why Kobe inspires hate.

If you peg Jordan as the greatest of all time do you clowns also hate every other guard in NBA history who doesn't do X as well as Jordan?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

MJ marketed himself better and created an iconic image. Kobe hasnt done the same job of turning his competitiveness into a marketable image.

Yeah Jordan marketed himself, not a bunch of rich white executives. :oldlol:

[sekachu]

Think about that for a minute.

The people who hate Kobe saying he is trying to be like Mike back in the day is a dumb argument to begin with.

But if you truly loved Mike's game you should respect Kobe's.

They both have score first assassin like mentality's.
This is not saying Kobe is on MJ's level etc. But the type of game they both play. The success they have both had being competitive a-holes.

When Jordan first entered the NBA...I have to say the best teams played more of a team game. Magic and the Lakers...Bird and the Celtics. Yes they had main stars who ran those teams but the ball was spread out...not so much individual one on one plays etc.

Jordan...ruined that.
And he influenced the next generation of stars to play the same way. To want to be like Mike. Not saying that it is a bad thing....but it's been a whole since a team like the early 00's Kings played. That was a great team...the ball moved well and they were the greatest show on court.

But we do have LeBron.....who is a great passers and feed off his teammates well. I am and will always be a Magic Johnson fan for the way he played the game. And though I dislike many things about LeBron....I love his game.

Point of starting this thread...certain individuals need to stop hating.




I respect kobe in some degree. He will be the first and the last player who could come close to MJ. When you think back, there are no single players who could do(play like MJ) what kobe has done and it is not even close.

[Round Mound]

Kobe Has Been Hyped To Be Just On MJs Level That is What Bothers Reasonable Fans Cause He Isn`t Close to MJs Level. He is a Better Pure Shooter but He Aint the Defender (not as athletic to be so), The Passer, The Rebounder, The Efficiency Player or as Dominant to be Named Next to Jordan. Since He Plays Similar to Jordan (He Studied Every Jordan Move in the Book) The Hype and Comparissons Happen But There Where Better Players than Kobe in Jordan`s Era Hakeem, Barkley, Shaq, Malone etc and In His Own Era. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron In Their Primes Where More Dominant and Efficient than Kobe. He is as Great Skilled Player? Yes but Aint a Top 10 Player of All Time or Close to It.

[tikay0]

1) MJ
2) KOBE










3) Lebron

[KOBE143]

1) MJ
2) KOBE










3) Lebron
This :applause:

[Inspector Rick]

I was the biggest Kobe hater back in the day... the media hype was beyond reasonable, he didn't utilize or appreciate Shaq like he should have, and his personality felt disingenuousness in interviews.

But.... over the years, Kobe's matured, he's not putting on any fronts and you have to LOVE/RESPECT his passion for the game. He eats, sleeps, breathes basketball every waking moment of the day. The ultimate student. How can anyone hate on that?

[knicksman]

kobe is a fake guy. He wants to protect his image but fails to do so. Whereas jordan really is a good guy. But he never cares about reputation. Thats the difference. Jordan is like pierce or rasheed who really never cares about their reputation while kobe is the same as lebron who cares about their image. And kobe is selfish whereas jordan is not. I view players like oscar, iverson as more selfish than jordan who trusted pippen to do the playmaking despite being capable of averaging 32 8 8. Whereas kobe would rather facilitate despite not being the best on the team than being reduced as a roleplayer.

[I<3NBA]

If you loved the way MJ played and approached the game...how can you hate Kobe?
duh. because Jordan has one big difference over Kobe. shot selection. ofc if you loved MJ's game, you're gonna hate Kobe's. stark difference in shot selection. what kind of dipshit shoots a fadeaway shot, in the corner, over 3 defenders?

and that folks is why Jordan fans will NEVER, ever like Kobe.

[NumberSix]

Kobe Has Been Hyped To Be Just On MJs Level That is What Bothers Reasonable Fans Cause He Isn`t Close to MJs Level. He is a Better Pure Shooter but He Aint the Defender (not as athletic to be so), The Passer, The Rebounder, The Efficiency Player or as Dominant to be Named Next to Jordan. Since He Plays Similar to Jordan (He Studied Every Jordan Move in the Book) The Hype and Comparissons Happen But There Where Better Players than Kobe in Jordan`s Era Hakeem, Barkley, Shaq, Malone etc and In His Own Era. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron In Their Primes Where More Dominant and Efficient than Kobe. He is as Great Skilled Player? Yes but Aint a Top 10 Player of All Time or Close to It.
I would argue that he's close to it.

[Psileas]

This.

Many say If MJ is Bruce Lee, Kobe is Jackie chan

NOT!

If MJ = Bruce Lee, Magic = Jackie Chan,

kobe is a notch below

Kobe = Jet li or Jason Statham.

No, the Magic=Jackie Chan analogy isn't that good, apart from the "entertainment" field. Magic came before Jordan and was a completely different player. I'd say an analogy with a different type of martial artist and an older one than Lee is more accurate.

[Glide2keva]

I stated this before. But I will say it again. Jordan fans do not and I repeat, DO NOT hate Kobe.

Michael Jordan fans hate Kobe Bryant fans.

There's a difference. This question should be asked the other way around. The man they revere, is the single biggest fan of Michael Jordan that probably ever played in the NBA and that eats them up inside. They hated seeing Kobe wearing a Jordan jersey and saying he was the best. They hated hearing Kobe say he couldn't compare to Jordan and called him the Best to ever do it.

These are facts. Ask any Jordan fan that deals with Kobe fans.

[NBASTATMAN]

Kobe Has Been Hyped To Be Just On MJs Level That is What Bothers Reasonable Fans Cause He Isn`t Close to MJs Level. He is a Better Pure Shooter but He Aint the Defender (not as athletic to be so), The Passer, The Rebounder, The Efficiency Player or as Dominant to be Named Next to Jordan. Since He Plays Similar to Jordan (He Studied Every Jordan Move in the Book) The Hype and Comparissons Happen But There Where Better Players than Kobe in Jordan`s Era Hakeem, Barkley, Shaq, Malone etc and In His Own Era. Shaq, Duncan, Garnett and Lebron In Their Primes Where More Dominant and Efficient than Kobe. He is as Great Skilled Player? Yes but Aint a Top 10 Player of All Time or Close to It.


I think Kobe is top 10 based on his career..

[pauk]

MJ just so happened to play & approach the game much more efficiently, productively and dominantly... and thats what i like about MJ, unfortunately thats also what i dont like a bout Kobe, besides that its also the "like mike, if i could be like mike" imitations of moves, if Kobe managed to copy MJs efficiency, productions & domination with THOSE moves then it would be very impressive and he would really deserve a compliment.... i can also "look like MJ", but if i dont hit those shots as MJ also did then i look only pathetic/desperate.... i guess you answered your own question almost...

[scandisk_]

I kinda hated kobe in his early early years (2000-2004) Must be his instant success and popularity. After the 2008 season though I've got nothing but huge admiration and respect for the guy. To maintain an elite level of play every season, man that's nuts.

[gengiskhan]

I think Kobe is top 10 based on his career..

Based on his Career, Kobe is NOT actually Top 10 GOAT.

Like LBJ said, "rings alone dont determine players greatness"

Rings are won by "great teams."

Looking at kobe's career with Lakers franchise, this cannot be more true.

[hitmanyr2k]

This.

Many say If MJ is Bruce Lee, Kobe is Jackie chan

NOT!

If MJ = Bruce Lee, Magic = Jackie Chan,

kobe is a notch below

Kobe = Jet li or Jason Statham.

Comparison I made years ago :oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3707990&postcount=148


I always looked at Jordan and Kobe in a Bruce Lee / Bruce Li sort of way.

Bruce Lee was the legend that transcended the martial arts world much like Jordan transcended the NBA and when Bruce died you suddenly had Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee and all of these cats coming out of the woodwork. They could all imitate Bruce's moves and his mannerisms but ultimately were 2nd rate imitations. Kobe struck me that way in his early years. It wasn't just his game it was his mannerisms as well. It was like he was trying to be someone else. I wondered if he truly had a personality of his own. I thought last year he was making strides towards finding his own identity as he gets older...until he won a championship and jumped in the air with the Jordan-like kick of the legs and swinging his arms :oldlol: I was like cmon man...why did you have to do that?

[Shepseskaf]

The real problem is the media's obsession with anointing the "next MJ". How many victims has this label claimed already?

Harold Minor
Kobe
Grant Hill
Jerry Stackhouse
Penny Hardaway
LBJ
More to come....

[tpols]

Saying Kobe wasn't as good isn't a rebuttal to the fact that he played the game the same way. Same post moves, turn around jumpers, footwork, approach on offense etc. He just was slightly less efficient and not as dominant. Still.. He played the game a esthetically as pleasing and had one of the best scoring primes of all time. Complete dedication to his craft his whole life too and it's all fake.

[Glide2keva]

I stated this before. But I will say it again. Jordan fans do not and I repeat, DO NOT hate Kobe.

Michael Jordan fans hate Kobe Bryant fans.

There's a difference. This question should be asked the other way around. The man they revere, is the single biggest fan of Michael Jordan that probably ever played in the NBA and that eats them up inside. They hated seeing Kobe wearing a Jordan jersey and saying he was the best. They hated hearing Kobe say he couldn't compare to Jordan and called him the Best to ever do it.

These are facts. Ask any Jordan fan that deals with Kobe fans.
Quoting my own post.

[crisoner]

The real problem is the media's obsession with anointing the "next MJ". How many victims has this label claimed already?

Harold Minor
Kobe
Grant Hill
Jerry Stackhouse
Penny Hardaway
LBJ
More to come....

Could not agree more.

And the two who have come close (Kobe, LeBron) out of this list get hated on for doing so.

[crisoner]

Saying Kobe wasn't as good isn't a rebuttal to the fact that he played the game the same way. Same post moves, turn around jumpers, footwork, approach on offense etc. He just was slightly less efficient and not as dominant. Still.. He played the game a esthetically as pleasing and had one of the best scoring primes of all time. Complete dedication to his craft his whole life too and it's all fake.

Agreed!!!

I'm just saying certain folks need to respect his game when they claim to love Jordan's. My team was the Showtime Lakers...loved the way they played.
And even at the time when the early 2000's Kings played against my team...I loved and respected the way they played the game because it reminded me of the Showtime Lakers.

That is my whole point with this thread....same can be said for Kobe and MJ.

[9512]

Michael Jordan is the real Bruce Lee and Kobe is [pick any hokey imitators that proceeded Lee's films after his death].

That's how I see the MJ/Kobe comparison.

[9512]

Watching Kobe is like watching a fake Bruce Lee.

the real Bruce Lee is MJ.

I didn't realize I already replied to this thread with the exact same thought (just worded differently). LOL :lol

[9512]

No, Kobe is a legend. A fake Bruce Lee is a nobody, he has no significant personal identity. Kobe is Jackie Chan, not someone that nobody cares about.

That's what kobe is to me. he has no significant personal identity because he blatantly rips off MJ's moves ON the court as well as his OFF the court manners. Kobe copies MJ's voice intonation and facial expressions with his own minor idiosyncracies. That's what a fake bruce lee did/was.

Personally I don't care for blatant imitators, which I think what Kobe is. People may care about Kobe or acknowledge him but he'll never have the same impact on me as MJ did (even if people will still remember kobe more than they will remember a fake bruce lee).

MJ captivated the public with his game, charisma, and whatever else. Seemingly it's what kobe is trying to replicate but ultimtately fails.

People will still remember Kobe but I don't have the same emotional investment with him as I do with MJ.

And kobe will have more haters than MJ ever will even with the fact that MJ is no more of an angel than kobe is/was.

[Ne 1]

Even though Kobe uses some of MJ's arsenal, he also incorporated a lot of his own and took it to the next level the same way MJ took Dr. J's game to the next level.


Here's a great view point on this:

If I grew up loving movies made by Francis Ford Coppola and was obsessed with making films in general. When I got the chance to make a film and one of the films I made was an ode to one of his films, does that mean I wanna be exactly like Coppola?

Seriously people, get over it. We all grow up with heroes in sports or a profession that we aspire to, much of what we incorporate into our own work is what we learned, derived from what they did. For many of us, the entire reason we love what we do is because of the people that inspired us. The best we can hope to achieve is to take what they did and build on it to take it to a new level, by bringing our own style, skills, imagination and desire to it.

You are criticizing Kobe for doing what you wish you could have.

There is not a person in the world that doesn't learn from the people that came before them.

We all adopt the mannerisms and traits, styles, looks, habits of the people we admire.

If you believe that everything you do is completely original, then you'd be the first such human in modern history. We're indeed very lucky to have you.

What we should applaud Kobe for is the level of success he has achieved and for the duration of time he has been able to maintain that excellence.

the rest of this is simply jealousy, anger, insecurity.

[Rasheed1]

Jordan fans (as well as most NBA fans in general) hate kobe fans more than they hate kobe himself

Kobe is a bit arrogant, and he used to come off as a punk Jordan wannabe who couldnt wait his turn to lead the Lakers..

But he has evolved enough since those early days that I know it isnt kobe himself who is drawing so much hate these as much as it is his fans. His fans are usually very juvenile and they arent usually knowledgable about the game, they only care about kobe.

There is a difference between laker fans and kobe fans... Laker fans usually are very knowledgable and are great people to sit down with and talk bball.

kobe fans? not so much

[madmax]

kobe is a steven seagall.

:lol :roll:

[Rasheed1]

That's what kobe is to me. he has no significant personal identity because he blatantly rips off MJ's moves ON the court as well as his OFF the court manners. Kobe copies MJ's voice intonation and facial expressions with his own minor idiosyncracies. That's what a fake bruce lee did/was.

Personally I don't care for blatant imitators, which I think what Kobe is. People may care about Kobe or acknowledge him but he'll never have the same impact on me as MJ did (even if people will still remember kobe more than they will remember a fake bruce lee).

MJ captivated the public with his game, charisma, and whatever else. Seemingly it's what kobe is trying to replicate but ultimtately fails.



I agree on this as it pertains to kobe before the breakup after the 04 season. but after that, I think the bad publicity from acting too much like Jordan made him stop doing that and find his own personality.

Bruce Lee himself has a great quote on this subject:

"Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it."

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I agree on this as it pertains to kobe before the breakup after the 04 season. but after that, I think the bad publicity from acting too much like Jordan made him stop doing that and find his own personality.

Bruce Lee himself has a great quote on this subject:

"Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it."

In other words

"BE LIKE MIKE"

Gotta love the most corporate shaped identity in NBA history being the blueprint for keeping it real. :oldlol:

[scm5]

Kobe Bryant's shot selection

MJ rarely took bad shot.

Okay, I agree, but to be fair, MJ got open a lot easier than Kobe did. MJ is more athletic in just about every facet of athleticism.

Kobe kinda has to take/make hard shots because he can't get as much space as MJ can off the same moves.

[9512]

I agree on this as it pertains to kobe before the breakup after the 04 season. but after that, I think the bad publicity from acting too much like Jordan made him stop doing that and find his own personality.

Bruce Lee himself has a great quote on this subject:

"Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself,do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate it."




I always looked at Jordan and Kobe in a Bruce Lee / Bruce Li sort of way.

Bruce Lee was the legend that transcended the martial arts world much like Jordan transcended the NBA and when Bruce died you suddenly had Bruce Li, Bruce Le, Dragon Lee and all of these cats coming out of the woodwork. They could all imitate Bruce's moves and his mannerisms but ultimately were 2nd rate imitations. Kobe struck me that way in his early years. It wasn't just his game it was his mannerisms as well. It was like he was trying to be someone else. I wondered if he truly had a personality of his own. I thought last year he was making strides towards finding his own identity as he gets older...until he won a championship and jumped in the air with the Jordan-like kick of the legs and swinging his arms I was like cmon man...why did you have to do that?

:roll:

[Money 23]

Kobe post 2004 has definitely aped Jordan's mannerisms. Not to the same creepy extents he did prior to that, where even his post game interviews were done in a Jordan tone of voice and cadence.

And it's alarmingly awkward with the total lack of self awareness that you're mimicking someone else, but being absolutely sincere about doing it. Kobe's personality has always been this way. He adapts to the people around him, making him seem fake.

Wins 2009 Championship - Jumps in the air and leg kicks like Jordan did v.s. Cavs after "the shot"

Wins 2010 Championship at home - Jumps on the scores table and does hand gesture of ring count ala MJ in '92 and '97

Kobe v.s. Shane Battier 2009 Playoffs - Apes Jordan's "He Can't Guard Me" game v.s. Gerald Wilkins from '93 and even mouths it OVER AND OVER again like MJ did (albeit MJ did it once) until he gets called for a technical.

Kobe game winner 2006 playoffs v.s. Phoenix - MJ like fist pump from '97 Finals.

Kobe post 2004 has been more himself, no doubt about it. I will give him that. But there are still times where he BLATANTLY steals MJ's mannerisms.

Kobe's 2008 MVP acceptance speech even "borrowed" from Iverson.

"Let's make some noise and get this party jumpin"

I think it has to do with the fact Kobe never really felt comfortable in his own skin finding an identity. Being an American kid in Italy, and then moving back to urban America after being cultured. He had to learn to adapt, and in the process had a hard time developing his own personality.

It's also why he remained the most relevant player and personality in the game over the duration of the 2000's.

[Roundball_Rock]

The OP assumes MJ fans like MJ primarily because of his playing style. Let's keep in mind half of the people who post here never saw MJ play live as a Bull.

Michael Jordan's prominence on the sports landscape today has as much to do with athletic skill as The Rock's does. Jordan is first and foremost a cultural icon. Consider how prominent he remains in the public imagination. After Lebron and Kobe there are more threads about MJ than any other player. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated recently. ESPN/ABC, both via their NBA broadcasts and Sportscenter mentions him probably more than some top 10 NBA players--top 10 today...Jordan is mentioned in the press far more than any other retired NBA legend--or retired NFL, NHL, NASCAR, or golf legend.

Impressive considering Jordan retired a decade ago and has not played a meaningful minute of basketball in nearly 15 years. Yet there he remains: a marketing colossus who conjures up good feelings, this time nostalgia, among millions to this day.

What I don't understand about the MJ phenomenon is why it is so big and why it only exists vis-a-vis him. Yeah he excelled at putting a ball through a hoop. Okay. And? Joe Montana is the NFL GOAT, Wayne Gretzky dominated the NHL far more than Jordan dominated the NBA (think Kareem, Jordan and Wilt combined), Tiger Woods likely is going to be the golf GOAT and Jimmie Johnson the NASCAR GOAT--and these two remain active to this day. Yet why all this media attention, commercial dollars expended and fan interest in a player who has not been relevant in a decade and a half? It isn't as if MJ stood for anything beyond putting a ball through a hoop or selling sneakers like, say Ali did. Magic continues to positively impact the nation and world through his post-basketball activities. And the list goes on. What has MJ done post-1998 other than be a lousy GM and owner? The guy was by all accounts a complete jerk yet he is lionized into seeming perpetuity as if he were the embodiment of perfection.

[Money 23]

What has MJ done post-1998 other than be a lousy GM and owner? The guy was by all accounts a complete jerk yet he is lionized into seeming perpetuity as if he were the embodiment of perfection.
The bigger question is ... why does this bother you SO MUCH?

You seem salty as hell about the fact, the majority consider GOAT whose presence and influence is still felt on the league today ... still gets public acclaim, recognition, and now with his 50th birthday, nostalgia. Pretty odd for a "Bulls fan"

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: I, unlike most "Jordan fans", have rooted for a basketball team since 1998. I was pro-MJ when I started posting here; MJ fans turned me against MJ.

That doesn't answer the question. What makes MJ so much more magical--other than having far more advertising dollars spent on him--than Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird; Montana, Rice; Gretky, Howe; Earnhardt, Petty; Palmer, Nicklaus. The list goes on. There actually are two GOAT level sports figures currently in their prime--Woods and Jimmie Johnson--and Roger Federer is still active in tennis. If the idea is to witness greatness why obsess over the greatness of 1998 or 1989 and ignore the greatness of today? Johnson won the Daytona 500 just yesterday!

Jordan likely is a nostalgic connection to the youth of people like us in our late 20's/early 30's but what is with these 21 year olds and Mike?

I wonder how much of it was due to MJ's charisma and savvy marketing. Will, say, Lebron be hyped this much in 2035 if/when he is deemed the GOAT?

On a side note, you are the only "Bulls fan" who I have ever seen defend the shameful Hue Hollins call that likely cost the Bulls a trip to the NBA finals in 1994, but then again I am sure you weren't rooting for the Bulls that night like some of us... :lol

[Money 23]

:oldlol: I, unlike most "Jordan fans", have rooted for a basketball team since 1998. I was pro-MJ when I started posting here; MJ fans turned me against MJ.
That sounds utterly retarded. Fans turned you against your franchises absolute reason for relevancy? Ummm ok.

And this coming from someone who is from Chicago, unlike yourself and root for the Bulls myself.


That doesn't answer the question. What makes MJ so much more magical--other than having far more advertising dollars spent on him--than Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird; Montana, Rice; Gretky, Howe; Earnhardt, Petty; Palmer, Nicklaus. The list goes on. There actually are two GOAT level sports figures currently in their prime--Woods and Jimmie Johnson--and Roger Federer is still active in tennis. If the idea is to witness greatness why obsess over the greatness of 1998 or 1989 and ignore the greatness of today? Johnson won the Daytona 500 just yesterday!
First of all, none of us care about NASCAR

MJ's career was virtually story book. Unblemished too, unless you count his years on the Wizards against him. Why I'm having to explain this to a supposed Bulls fan is beyond me.

He dominated his sport just as much as any all time great in any arena. And also had a cultural influence un touched by Montana, Rice, Gretzky, etc. He took the fame of his sport to another level.

He's the reason players get the contracts they do now. You can't be serious with all of this? What players in the NHL are wearing his jersey number in tribute, ala LeBron did for 7 years? Who are wearing Gretzky brand skates?


Jordan likely is a nostalgic connection to the youth of people like us in our late 20's/early 30's but what is with these 21 year olds and Mike?
This, I can agree with. None of them ever saw Mike. The ones rocking Air Jordans befuddles me, too. But I don't see people in their current early to mid 20s, or younger banging the drum for MJ. They're all over the Kobe / LeBron hype train.

And unlike the latter two players, MJ always met or exceeded his hype. Well, up until 2002 when he was just too old. MJ earned his mystique and reputation. To even insinuate otherwise, and you need to smack yourself.

You make the same dumb arguments as Kobe stans. Odd for a "Bulls Fan" ... as if MJ's game, dominance was all a myth. It was all Nike / Gatorade / Hanes / Chevy / Coca-Cola / McDonals marketing.

What on earth have MJ or Bulls fans on here done to turn you against Jordan? I've seen you post since you've got here, you've always been a not so subtle hater. And I've never met another Bulls fan in my life who hates on Jordan. You have an odd agenda.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

MJ fans turned me against MJ.



I'm sorry, but that's ****ing SILLY. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That sounds utterly retarded. Fans turned you against your franchises absolute reason for relevancy? Ummm ok.

And this coming from someone who is from Chicago, unlike yourself and root for the Bulls myself.


First of all, none of us care about NASCAR

MJ's career was virtually story book. Unblemished too, unless you count his years on the Wizards against him. Why I'm having to explain this to a supposed Bulls fan is beyond me.

He dominated his sport just as much as any all time great in any arena. And also had a cultural influence un touched by Montana, Rice, Gretzky, etc. He took the fame of his sport to another level.

He's the reason players get the contracts they do now. You can't be serious with all of this? What players in the NHL are wearing his jersey number in tribute, ala LeBron did for 7 years? Who are wearing Gretzky brand skates?


This, I can agree with. None of them ever saw Mike. The ones rocking Air Jordans befuddles me, too. But I don't see people in their current early to mid 20s, or younger banging the drum for MJ. They're all over the Kobe / LeBron hype train.

And unlike the latter two players, MJ always met or exceeded his hype. Well, up until 2002 when he was just too old. MJ earned his mystique and reputation. To even insinuate otherwise, and you need to smack yourself.

You make the same dumb arguments as Kobe stans. Odd for a "Bulls Fan" ... as if MJ's game, dominance was all a myth. It was all Nike / Gatorade / Hanes / Chevy / Coca-Cola / McDonals marketing.

What on earth have MJ or Bulls fans on here done to turn you against Jordan? I've seen you post since you've got here, you've always been a not so subtle hater. And I've never met another Bulls fan in my life who hates on Jordan. You have an odd agenda.

Good post, mate.

He forgot to log into his Fatal9 account. :oldlol: That style of posting is verbatim from a fatal9 (aka Yao Ming's Foot) post some months ago.

[Roundball_Rock]

Appreciation of Jordan's contributions in the 90's doesn't automatically translate into accepting the mythology surrounding him in 2013.


MJ's career was virtually story book. Unblemished too, unless you count his years on the Wizards against him

Yes--and so were the careers of several other legends in many sports.


He dominated his sport just as much as any all time great in any arena. And also had a cultural influence un touched by Montana, Rice, Gretzky, etc. He took the fame of his sport to another level.

You just said he "dominated as much" as other all-time greats--yet his cultural influence is untouched. Both statements are true; why, though? Jordan became a cultural icon that no other athlete in the U.S. has come anywhere near replicating. What made him different? That is the question.

Yes, he did take the sport to another level but so did Tiger and so did Bird/Magic immediately before him. It is part of the Jordan legend but only a portion. Lebron arguably is the guy who brought the NBA back to the top of the American sports agenda from its post-Jordan decline. Yet he receives no credit for this.


You can't be serious with all of this? What players in the NHL are wearing his jersey number in tribute, ala LeBron did for 7 years? Who are wearing Gretzky brand skates?

Correct. As I said, no other legend has anywhere near the staying power of MJ. The question is why?


The ones rocking Air Jordans befuddles me, too. But I don't see people in their current early to mid 20s, or younger banging the drum for MJ. They're all over the Kobe / LeBron hype train.

There are several MJ lovers in that age bracket here, although as you note they mostly are on the Lebron/Kobe train.


Odd for a "Bulls Fan" ... as if MJ's game, dominance was all a myth. It was all Nike / Gatorade / Hanes / Chevy / Coca-Cola / McDonals marketing.

It wasn't a myth but it is naive to think the unprecedented marketing dollars directed at MJ--to this day (Gatorade, Hanes, and de facto ESPN/ABC)--did not play a role in Jordan being remebered long after his peers, and predecessors have largely been forgotten. Montana, Sampras, Earnhardt and Gretzky were contemporaries of Jordan; Rice was an elite player long beyond 1998. Woods, Federer and Johnson all came after Jordan.

While it is true the NBA is a much bigger sport in America than tennis, golf, or auto racing the king is the NFL. Yet it is Jordan, not Montana who graces SI long after his playing days are over.

:oldlol: I was a staunch MJ supporter when I joined this site. All it takes is a search of my posts to see that. I even made a pro-MJ thread rebutting some of his critics.

What turned me against him? The absurd mythology that MJ won rings by himself, the constant downplaying of the 1994 Bulls (even to the point of "Jordan fans" defending the Hollins call), etc. I respect and admire MJ the player like I always have; I oppose MJ the myth.

It is funny how the Jordan bridage thinks anti-MJ=Kobe fan. There is not a single Kobe/Lakers fan here who thinks I am one of them. Why would they? Do you see me going around defending Kobe in every thread? :lol I have come down on the Lebron side of the argument since I joined here.

I am/was a Pippen fan. I know bandwagon fans like Jordan fans can't grasp why not everyone jumped on the largest bandwagon (according to you all only Lebron, Kobe should have real fans today), but not everyone is a Lebron or Kobe fan.

Will Lebron in, say, 2040, receive the same level of media hype Jordan does today? MJ was last a force in 1998. How much hype was Russell getting in the late 1980's? Kareem circa 2001?

[Money 23]

Good post, mate.

He forgot to log into his Fatal9 account. :oldlol: That style of posting is verbatim from a fatal9 (aka Yao Ming's Foot) post some months ago.
Oh, I've always known Fatal9 / Yao Ming's Foot were the same dude as him.

Same way of speaking, same agendas, same way of presenting them. "The myth" argument. I've never EVER heard a legit fan of the game, or the Bulls no less to make that argument.

What could Bulls fans have possibly said to rile up this clown so much to hate not only the game's all time greatest player, but his franchises reason for relevancy, success, and worth?

Yao Ming's Foot is on my ignore list, going to have to add Roundball_Rock. And I vowed to NEVER ignore a poster on here. Regardless of status or troll nature.

Fatal9 was actually a decent poster for a period of time, with good perspective on the game. Then he leaked his ultimate agenda, and then there was him being EXPOSED in a tight little Kobe Bryant jersey on vacation, and I've never seen him since.

[miller-time]

Michael Jordan has a personality disorder, and Kobe is trying to emulate someone with a personality disorder. Not cool bro.

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: The only people here who say I am Fatal and/or a Kobe fan are all MJ fans.

It is bizarre to see an alleged Bulls fan say Jordan is the only reason for the team's relevancy. The Bulls had the best record in the NBA in 2011 and 2012 when Jordan was long gone and would be on top of the East right now if Rose were healthy. In 1994 the Bulls without MJ--now I understand you were rooting for the Knicks that year--nearly won the top seed. In the mid-70's the Bulls twice made the WCF. (In one season they took it to 7 games; in the other they succumbed to the GOAT at his peak) Yet the team has no relevance outside of Jordan? :rolleyes:

Jordan was a key part of taking the Bulls to the next level (dominance) back in the 1990's* but they have been a top team without Jordan--as recently as last year, as all Bulls fans know; they will be again in 2013 and beyond with a healthy Rose.

MJ fans say it was all Jordan, as Money/Samuri suggests. Let's examine the record.

Chicago's wins by season from 1984-1989: 27 (pre-MJ), 38, 30, 40, 50, 47

Chicago's wins by season from 1990-1994: 55, 61, 67, 57, 55 (without MJ)

What happened in 1990? Pippen became an all-star. Yet it was all MJ. :lol

[Nevaeh]

:oldlol: I, unlike most "Jordan fans", have rooted for a basketball team since 1998. I was pro-MJ when I started posting here; MJ fans turned me against MJ.


Nah, Fans don't "turn you against" players. That just means you were never that big of a fan to begin with, the same point that I made to Crimson about peeps who were never Kobe fans.

That doesn't answer the question. What makes MJ so much more magical--other than having far more advertising dollars spent on him--than Kareem, Wilt, Magic, Bird; Montana, Rice; Gretky, Howe; Earnhardt, Petty; Palmer, Nicklaus. The list goes on.

Had you had to the opportunity to watch MJ's career unfold from the very beginning, you would have known how much his playing style excited and reinvigorated the League, especially for Bulls fans, who for years had nothing to cheer about.

The problem I think is that a lot of Jordan fans only caught the "fade Away Jumper" years, and missed out on the more acrobatic version of Jordan. THAT version was like a comic book character come to life, and not just in the eyes of youngsters either. Go watch some 85-87 Bulls games, and listen to how the announcers are constantly left in awe.


There actually are two GOAT level sports figures currently in their prime--Woods and Jimmie Johnson--and Roger Federer is still active in tennis. If the idea is to witness greatness why obsess over the greatness of 1998 or 1989 and ignore the greatness of today? Johnson won the Daytona 500 just yesterday!


OK, lets be realistic here. Golf is boring as hell, and can only be very loosely considered a "sport" anyway. Yes, it's competitive and more popular now (thanks to Woods), but I have yet to set aside time in my day to watch a tournament, even when Tiger was winning left and right in the late 90s-early 2000s.

Tennis has always had the stigma of being a "high falootin' Rich white people's game, up until the Williams sisters came along, and AGAIN the sport is just not that exciting.

Nascar is guys driving around in a circle. I won't dare even bother considering them "Athletes".



Jordan likely is a nostalgic connection to the youth of people like us in our late 20's/early 30's but what is with these 21 year olds and Mike?

Jordan is "nostalgic" just like James Brown, Spiderman, Elvis, the Beatles and Ali for example are "nostalgic". These are Pioneers, trendsetters or "Blue Prints" if you will, for all that came after them. Think of how many James Brown records were sampled from the 80s into the 2000s. Same with Jordan and the standard he left on the League that others are STILL measuring their games against.

I wonder how much of it was due to MJ's charisma and savvy marketing. Will, say, Lebron be hyped this much in 2035 if/when he is deemed the GOAT?

Jordan was a natural because he was just being "himself" as much as is expected of a "Professional" ball player. That's the difference with MJ. You never got the feeling that he was reading off cue cards, or trying to come off as a "Wannabe Dr. J" or something. Watch Jordan running up the court after a made basket. That "MJ trot" is ALL HIS, as was captured perfectly in NBA2k12.

On a side note, you are the only "Bulls fan" who I have ever seen defend the shameful Hue Hollins call that likely cost the Bulls a trip to the NBA finals in 1994, but then again I am sure you weren't rooting for the Bulls that night like some of us... :lol

Now this "One Call Away" line has gotten so silly that I don't believe clowns even still use it. The Bulls were in the eastern conference SEMI finals (meaning 2nd round), before they allegedly got "Screwed Over". There's no guarantee or any sign pointing to them even making the Finals that year. This "game" can be played with dozens of teams only making it to the Second Round.



Some guys just can't stand the fact that their "guy" is no the standard that a League's Superstar is held to like Jordan was. It's gonna be that way no matter what, simply because Jordan took the game to heights that have yet to be touched by any player since. It is was it is, until it ain't no more.

[TheBigVeto]

http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's the reason players get the contracts they do now. You can't be serious with all of this? What players in the NHL are wearing his jersey number in tribute, ala LeBron did for 7 years? Who are wearing Gretzky brand skates?


Gretzky's number is retired league wide.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Jordan delusion runs so deep that if more than one poster brings logic and facts to the table they must be the same person. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

Uhh.. YMF, Fatal, and Roundball are all 3 different people.. wtf? :oldlol: While we're at it, are DonDadda and Starface the same person because they're both up and coming actors who hate Kobe?