Garnett is better than charles barkley and karl malone

[kennethgriffin]

Garnetts championship and defensive impact cant be matched by those other 2 guys...

A leader on both ends of the floor.

And ontop of it all. If there was a draft. Who wouldnt pick KG ahead of those 2 guys?


Honors
1995 McDonald's All American
1995-96 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)



Mvp
Champion

[SilkkTheShocker]

His greatest playoff moment was going of on crippled Chris Webber. Barkley is the only one of the 3 that could lead a team to title IMO.

[Hotlantadude81]

He only went far when he didn't have to carry the team anymore.

[Round Mound]

Garnett is a Pippen Type Player. Great All Around but Better as a 2nd Option and No He Aint Better than BOTH Sir Charles and The Mailman.

[Derka]

Not as good of a scorer as Malone.

To me, he's a good blend of both.

[miggyme1]

Garnetts championship and defensive impact cant be matched by those other 2 guys...

A leader on both ends of the floor.

And ontop of it all. If there was a draft. Who wouldnt pick KG ahead of those 2 guys?


Honors
1995 McDonald's All American
1995-96 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)



Mvp
Champion


ummmm idk...he for sure top 5....but karl malone had like what 2 or 3 season mvps........barkley....was like 6'4 and played the pf spot....dats like magic being 6'9 and playing the point......garnett has had a great career tho but idk if he better than barkley and malone

[Whoah10115]

Garnett is a Pippen Type Player. Great All Around but Better as a 2nd Option and No He Aint Better than BOTH Sir Charles and The Mailman.



Not accurate. Garnett is not a second option. Pippen isn't a second option. Pippen played with the best player of all-time. He played like a first option in an equal opportunity offense, where one other guy was just better than he was and was a scorer, whereas Pippen's game was more all-around. Doesn't make Pippen a second option.


There is nothing about Garnett that makes him a second option.

[kennethgriffin]

I think malone and barkley were better on offense. But garnett is a really good offensive player


What makes me pick kg is that even if he never scored more than 5ppg. KG would have still been a hall of fame option in a rodman type vote for his legendary defense/ rebounding / anchoring the team


The fact that hes a do it all on offense just seals the deal for me. Hes like a 7 foot kobe bryant. Just with less rings/finals mvps and clutch moments


I think he was the true leader of that 08 team. He was higher in mvp voting for the season that year.

Barkley was a lazy fat dumb cancer that left on bad terms with every team he ever played for. Malone was a product of stockton half the time.


I'd draft KG

[CakeorDeath]

His greatest playoff moment was going of on crippled Chris Webber. Barkley is the only one of the 3 that could lead a team to title IMO.

Both Barkley and Malone led their respective teams to the Finals where they lost to the same team/player, so I'm not sure why you would say that Chuck could lead a team to a chip but Karl couldn't.

Clearly they both could, they both just ran into MJ.

[kennethgriffin]

Both Barkley and Malone led their respective teams to the Finals where they lost to the same team/player, so I'm not sure why you would say that Chuck could lead a team to a chip but Karl couldn't.

Clearly they both could, they both just ran into MJ.


What happend to chuck and mailman in 94 and 95

[Round Mound]

Was Garnett Ever Doubled Or Had The Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes Concentrated on His Half Court Game like it was for Barkley, Malone and Duncan? :rolleyes: :no:

How Dominant Was Kevin Garnett Offensively Inside the 3-Point Line?

Season Career:

Barkley: 21.6 PPG on 58.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.3 PPG on 50.56% Two-Point FG...Taking 15.4 Two-Point FGAs PG

Play-Off Career:

Barkley: 22.5 PPG on 55.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.2 PPG on 48.04% Two-Point FG..Taking 16.3 Two-Point FGAs PG

Garnett in Good Teams Actually Scored Even Less Unlike Barkley and Malone

McHale Was Actually Better Offensively Too

[D-Wade316]

Garnett is a Pippen Type Player. Great All Around but Better as a 2nd Option and No He Aint Better than BOTH Sir Charles and The Mailman.
You're a ****ing idiot brah.

[Whoah10115]

Was Garnett Ever Doubled Or Had The Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes Concentrated on His Half Court Game like it was for Barkley, Malone and Duncan? :rolleyes: :no:

How Dominant Was Kevin Garnett Offensively Inside the 3-Point Line?

Season Career:

Barkley: 21.6 PPG on 58.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.3 PPG on 50.56% Two-Point FG...Taking 15.4 Two-Point FGAs PG

Play-Off Career:

Barkley: 22.5 PPG on 55.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.2 PPG on 48.04% Two-Point FG..Taking 16.3 Two-Point FGAs PG

Garnett in Good Teams Actually Scored Even Less Unlike Barkley and Malone



Was Garnett double-teamed on a team where Wally was his second option, until Cassell was for one year?


I'm gonna go and say he wasn't just doubled, but he was the sole focus of the opposing defenses.

[kennethgriffin]

Was Garnett Ever Doubled Or Had The Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes Concentrated on His Half Court Game like it was for Barkley, Malone and Duncan? :rolleyes: :no:

How Dominant Was Kevin Garnett Offensively Inside the 3-Point Line?

Season Career:

Barkley: 21.6 PPG on 58.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 12.9 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.3 PPG on 50.56% Two-Point FG...Taking 15.4 Two-Point FGAs PG

Play-Off Career:

Barkley: 22.5 PPG on 55.13% Two-Point FG...Taking 14.5 Two-Point FGAs PG
Garnett: 19.2 PPG on 48.04% Two-Point FG..Taking 16.3 Two-Point FGAs PG

Garnett in Good Teams Actually Scored Even Less Unlike Barkley and Malone



Man... U just dont get it


On offense

Barkleys a 9.2
Garnets an 8.5

On defense

Barkleys a 0.5
Garnetts a 9.8



Thats the difference


Add the fact that kg's a champion


Kg > barkley

[ProfessorMurder]

[B]Was Garnett Ever Doubled Or Had The Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes Concentrated on His Half Court Game like it was for Barkley, Malone and Duncan? :rolleyes: :no:

Uhh, every single game for the first 11 years of his career.

[CakeorDeath]

What happend to chuck and mailman in 94 and 95

Hakeem Olajuwon. Another top 10 all time player.

[Dro]

He's better than Malone...He's not better than Charles...

[Round Mound]

Man... U just dont get it


On offense

Barkleys a 9.2
Garnets an 8.5

On defense

Barkleys a 0.5
Garnetts a 9.8



Thats the difference


Add the fact that kg's a champion


Kg > barkley

Garnett was Never a Good 1st Option Scorer. He Just Stat Padded His Career on Bad Teams Hardly Shooting 50% FG. Barkley Was a Better Rebounder and Passer Too and While Doubled Tripled More Than Any Other Player Not Named Shaq But THis Time 8 ft to 15 ft Away from the Basket unlike Shaq Who Was Doubled 5-8 ft From the Basket. Being Doubled and Tripled Makes It Harder To Score or Set Up Teamates for Open Looks.

Also, Garnett Played in a Time Where Contact in the Painted Area Was Lesser than in Barkley and Malone`s Time. Garnett Soft Ass (he is soft just because he yells and does ugly mean faces to smaller players doesn`t mean you are tough) Would Have Gotten Destroyed by Prime Barkley and Prime Malone. These Guys Where Rough in Their Games.

Lets Also Mention that Barkley and Malone Destroyed Him in the Head to Head Matchups.

[schism206]

I never really got to watch Barkley, saw Malone more in the Bulls 2nd 3peat years. But I'd take KG for these reasons, his all around game, intensity and intelligence. He's not the best choice for a #1 option. He's a team player and needs a #1 scoring option. But KG does the dirty work, a la Rodman, and can contribute offensively and be efficient. He's money from pretty much anywhere inside the 3 point line, can hit free throws, has a good post game and a great passer. No offensive ego to deal with. He's always showing up to play with the same intensity, and in the end of games you'll notice the little things... a key defensive rebound, making a guy alter his shot, making a good pass and hustling for the ball (hell he still dives for loose balls). Even if he goes 2-10, he still has a huge imprint on the game. You can't say that for a lot of players in this league. People can rag on him all they want for being a fake tough guy and instigator, but he's a badass bball player and one of a kind.

[Legends66NBA7]

Hakeem Olajuwon. Another top 10 all time player.

What happened to Barkley the other 11 times when he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

What happened to Malone the other 15 times he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

[Round Mound]

What happened to Barkley the other 11 times when he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

What happened to Malone the other 15 times he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

:facepalm :rolleyes:

Barkley and Malone Where At Their Peeks and Played in the 80s Which Was Far Better than the 90s and 00s NBA. Barkley Played in the Toughest Conference The NBA Has Even Seen The East. Which had the Celtics, Bucks, Pistons, Bulls and Knicks. So for Him to Make It to the Finals in Between 1987 to 1992 Was Impossible.

Malone and Stockton Did Force the Lakers to 7 Game Series in 1988. Infact those Jazz Teams with Eaton and Baily> Any Jazz 90s Team.

Malone and Barkley Faced Tough Competition in the 80s and Early 90s unlike Todays NBA Where There Are Teams With Less Than 1 All Star Per Team (unlike the 80s) and No Great Role Players. I Wonder How Malone Was So Productive Even At Age s 33-40 When Today`s Stars Where Also Playing. Imagine What a Healthy Charles Would Do? and a Prime Faster Malone Would Do? If They Where Ages 22-32 in Todays Game = Destruction at Its Best.

[CakeorDeath]

What happened to Barkley the other 11 times when he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

What happened to Malone the other 15 times he did not face Hakeem or Jordan ?

What happened to Garnett the 12 years in Minnesota when he was the man and not on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

What happened to Garnett the 4 years after the ring, when he was still on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

[Harison]

I value KG a bit more than Barkley/Malone because he was the most complete player and with right attitude. I know he will always show up with 110% effort.

Plus the ring as the main man >> 0 rings.

Another important aspect, KG always won when he was suppose to, and sometimes won as underdog too. Quite the contrast with Barkley/Malone, who lost some series as favorites.

[Legends66NBA7]

What happened to Garnett the 12 years in Minnesota when he was the man and not on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

What happened to Garnett the 4 years after the ring, when he was still on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

Obviously he lost, duh.

The same thing happened to Barkley and Malone. Just because they ran into Jordan and Hakeem doesnt mean they did not stop losing and that is the main reason they lost. Its a flawed argument, that is my point.

And for your information, I did not even say Garnett belong over Malone and Barkley.

[ProfessorMurder]

What happened to Garnett the 12 years in Minnesota when he was the man and not on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

What happened to Garnett the 4 years after the ring, when he was still on a ridiculously stacked Boston team?

He played against Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Duncan/Robinson Spurs, and the stacked front line of the Jailblazers on a team by himself.

And you're not paying attention if you don't know how horrible Boston's injuries have been since KG's knee problem.

[Legends66NBA7]

:facepalm :rolleyes:

Barkley and Malone Where At Their Peeks and Played in the 80s Which Was Far Better than the 90s and 00s NBA. Barkley Played in the Toughest Conference The NBA Has Even Seen The East. Which had the Celtics, Bucks, Pistons, Bulls and Knicks. So for Him to Make It to the Finals in Between 1987 to 1992 Was Impossible.

Malone and Stockton Did Force the Lakers to 7 Game Series in 1988. Infact those Jazz Teams with Eaton and Baily> Any Jazz 90s Team.

Malone and Barkley Faced Tough Competition in the 80s and Early 90s unlike Todays NBA Where There Are Teams With Less Than 1 All Star Per Team (unlike the 80s) and No Great Role Players. I Wonder How Malone Was So Productive Even At Age s 33-40 When Today`s Stars Where Also Playing. Imagine What a Healthy Charles Would Do? and a Prime Faster Malone Would Do? If They Where Ages 22-32 in Todays Game = Destruction at Its Best.

:facepalm Good to see the point went over your head.

Im tired of hearing the Jordan and Hakeem argument against Barkley and Malone. And I know they would dominate in any era, who actually is arguing that ? :confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

He played against Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Duncan/Robinson Spurs, and the stacked front line of the Jailblazers on a team by himself.

And you're not paying attention if you don't know how horrible Boston's injuries have been since KG's knee problem.

I do not have a horse in this race, but you are exactly right with the bold.

[Round Mound]

I value KG a bit more than Barkley/Malone because he was the most complete player and with right attitude. I know he will always show up with 110% effort.

Plus the ring as the main man >> 0 rings.

Another important aspect, KG always won when he was suppose to, and sometimes won as underdog too. Quite the contrast with Barkley/Malone, who lost some series as favorites.


This is Bullshit. Jordan had Pippen in his Teams in the 90s...They Where Favorites Accoring to Smart Basketball Fans Not Hype-Oriented Fans like You are When Young. Pippen Made Others Better Even More than Jordan himself being a Total Missmatch Ballhandling 6`8 dude that Could Guard 1-4, Be the Best Perimeter Defender the Game Has Seen, Dribble and Crteate like a Pointguard and Finish like a High FLying SF.

Barkley and Malone Faced DA BULLS in the 90s and the SHOW TIME LAKERS, The BADBOYS and The REAL BIG 3 Celtics. They Faced Far Better Competition than Late 90s , 00s and 10s Pathetic NBA That We See Today Where Rules are All Anti Strong & Contact Player Oriented Game (Exactly What Malone and Barkley Where) and Pro Jordan-Like Penetrators.

Lets see Duncan and Garnett Play in the 80s and Early 90s With no Pierce, Allen, Rondo, Manu, Parker and Robinson. They Wouldn`t Even Make It Passed the 1st Round in the Play-Offs.

Whenever Malone and Barkley Faced Garnett even as Old Men, They Owned Him

[Whoah10115]

Garnett was Never a Good 1st Option Scorer. He Just Stat Padded His Career on Bad Teams Hardly Shooting 50% FG. Barkley Was a Better Rebounder and Passer Too and While Doubled Tripled More Than Any Other Player Not Named Shaq But THis Time 8 ft to 15 ft Away from the Basket unlike Shaq Who Was Doubled 5-8 ft From the Basket. Being Doubled and Tripled Makes It Harder To Score or Set Up Teamates for Open Looks.

Also, Garnett Played in a Time Where Contact in the Painted Area Was Lesser than in Barkley and Malone`s Time. Garnett Soft Ass (he is soft just because he yells and does ugly mean faces to smaller players doesn`t mean you are tough) Would Have Gotten Destroyed by Prime Barkley and Prime Malone. These Guys Where Rough in Their Games.

Lets Also Mention that Barkley and Malone Destroyed Him in the Head to Head Matchups.



Stat-padded on a bad team? They won 50 games 4 times in 5 years, winning 47 the other year. They made the playoffs three other times, including the year Marbury left them with nothing.


How is he stat-padding on a bad team if he's leading them to that record? It sounds a lot more like he's the reason they're getting to 50 wins in the West.


So no, that makes no sense. KG led them to the best record one year, on 24.2PPG, which was 3rd in the league.


He was a 1st option scorer and a top 5 player throughout his prime. Barkley is the best 4 who's ever played and was great enough that I think that, despite not having the chance to win and be competitive in multiple Finals. KG is not levels below the 3 tho, at all. I probably rank him 4th and probably rank him, at his best, at #2. But, regardless, he's in that group and what you said is wrong.

[Round Mound]

Old, Oveweight, Back and Knee Injured Barkley vs Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=garneke01

What Would a Healthy Prime Barkley do To Garnett?

[Round Mound]

Stat-padded on a bad team? They won 50 games 4 times in 5 years, winning 47 the other year. They made the playoffs three other times, including the year Marbury left them with nothing.


How is he stat-padding on a bad team if he's leading them to that record? It sounds a lot more like he's the reason they're getting to 50 wins in the West.


So no, that makes no sense. KG led them to the best record one year, on 24.2PPG, which was 3rd in the league.


He was a 1st option scorer and a top 5 player throughout his prime. Barkley is the best 4 who's ever played and was great enough that I think that, despite not having the chance to win and be competitive in multiple Finals. KG is not levels below the 3 tho, at all. I probably rank him 4th and probably rank him, at his best, at #2. But, regardless, he's in that group and what you said is wrong.

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th

[Legends66NBA7]

Old, Oveweight, Back and Knee Injured Barkley vs Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=garneke01

What Would a Healthy Prime Barkley do To Garnett?

Should be Old Barkley vs Young Garnett.

And the head vs head doesnt mean he was going up against him on every possession.

What would healthy prime Barkley do vs healthy prime Garnett should be the question, again...

[ProfessorMurder]

Should be Old Barkley vs Young Garnett.

And the head vs head doesnt mean he was going up against him on every possession.

What would healthy prime Barkley do vs healthy prime Garnett should be the question, again...

KG also played SF for his first two seasons, which is over half of their head to head games :lol

[DMAVS41]

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th

Garnett is a better player than Mchale.

Did you watch Pettit play?

[Whoah10115]

Old, Oveweight, Back and Knee Injured Barkley vs Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=garneke01

What Would a Healthy Prime Barkley do To Garnett?



I don't know...what would a prime Garnett due to fat Barkley?


:kobe: actin like that was Garnett in his prime.

[Legends66NBA7]

KG also played SF for his first two seasons, which is over half of their head to head games :lol

Yup. Which makes the head to head comparison worthless.

This basically comes back to our Dirk vs KG comparison a week or so ago. Two players who were unique and changed their positions and offense vs defense.

[Whoah10115]

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th


:roll:

[ProfessorMurder]

Yup. Which makes the head to head comparison worthless.

This basically comes back to our Dirk vs KG comparison a week or so ago. Two players who were unique and changed their positions and offense vs defense.

Yeah for real. I don't see the point in ranking these kind of guys. Different eras, different styles, all great players. It just depends on who you like.

McHale, KG, Dirk, Duncan, Malone, Barkley, and a few others have claims to the top 5 PFs ever.

[D-Wade316]

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

Garnett Was NOT Better than Kevin McHale or Bob Pettit. I`d Rank him 6th
:oldlol:

[CakeorDeath]

He played against Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Duncan/Robinson Spurs, and the stacked front line of the Jailblazers on a team by himself.

And you're not paying attention if you don't know how horrible Boston's injuries have been since KG's knee problem.

And Malone played against Magic/Kareem/Worthy's Lakers, Drexler/Porter's Blazers, KJ/Barkley's Suns, Olajuwon's Rockets, Payton/Kemp's Sonics, and of course Jordan's Bulls. The exact same can be said about Barkley, except obviously replace KJ/Barkley's Suns with Stockton/Malone's Jazz.

Not saying Boston hasn't had injuries, but people tend to forget that those Jazz teams were Malone and Stockton and not much else. Look at those finals teams. A one-kneed Hornacek is clearly the third best player on the team.

Fact is, Malone lost to the legendary 80s Lakers, twice to the Drexler-led Portland team (who both years went to the Finals), twice to Hakeem's NBA champion Rockets, once to Payton's NBA Finals Sonics team, and of course twice to MJ's Bulls. I'm as bummed as anyone that Malone never won a ring but there is a lot of stiff competition there.


And for your information, I did not even say Garnett belong over Malone and Barkley

And for your information, I did not even say Karl or Barkley belonged over Garnett.

[Round Mound]

Would Garnett Destroy a Prime Healthy Sampson like McHale did in the 1986 NBA Finals? McHale Was the Miost Feared Celtic in 1988 and He Was So Good Offensively They Needed To Shift of Centers to Start Guarding Him Per Game.

Did Not Watch Pettit Play but He Won a Ring as The Main Focus of a Team in the Wilt and Russel Era While Having Great Numbers. He Must Be Shown a Little More Respect.

[MMM]

KG was not a 2nd option he was the best player on the team and the most important player in contributing to the Celtics being a contender over the years. People are ignoring his ability to anchor an elite defensive team which is what put Boston in contention in the first place.

[ProfessorMurder]

And Malone played against Magic/Kareem/Worthy's Lakers, Drexler/Porter's Blazers, KJ/Barkley's Suns, Olajuwon's Rockets, Payton/Kemp's Sonics, and of course Jordan's Bulls. The exact same can be said about Barkley, except obviously replace KJ/Barkley's Suns with Stockton/Malone's Jazz.

Not saying Boston hasn't had injuries, but people tend to forget that those Jazz teams were Malone and Stockton and not much else. Look at those finals teams. A one-kneed Hornacek is clearly the third best player on the team.

Fact is, Malone lost to the legendary 80s Lakers, twice to the Drexler-led Portland team (who both years went to the Finals), twice to Hakeem's NBA champion Rockets, once to Payton's NBA Finals Sonics team, and of course twice to MJ's Bulls. I'm as bummed as anyone that Malone never won a ring but there is a lot of stiff competition there.

Oh I know, but people are saying Malone and Barkley lost to all time greats. So did KG.

[ProfessorMurder]

[B]Would Garnett Destroy a Prime Healthy Sampson like McHale did in the 1986 NBA Finals? McHale Was the Miost Feared Celtic in 1988 and He Was So Good Offensively They Needed To Shift of Centers to Start Guarding Him Per Game.

:roll: You think KG couldn't guard Ralph Sampson?

[Bernie Nips]

Would Garnett Destroy a Prime Healthy Sampson like McHale did in the 1986 NBA Finals? McHale Was the Miost Feared Celtic in 1988 and He Was So Good Offensively They Needed To Shift of Centers to Start Guarding Him Per Game.

Did Not Watch Pettit Play but He Won a Ring as The Main Focus of a Team in the Wilt and Russel Era While Having Great Numbers. He Must Be Shown a Little More Respect.

Or Garnett must be shown a little more respect. He was stuck on a team that were hit with severe draft penalties and he still managed to drag scrub teams into the playoffs year after year. He basically led his team in all statistical categories.

He's the only player in the history of the NBA to have 20,000 points (with over 25,000 now), 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 blocks and 1,500 steals. No other player in the history of the NBA is in that club. Incredibly dominant on both sides of the court, led a team to a championship (Pierce won the Finals MVP, but KG led the Celtics in scoring and rebounding in the playoffs that year... pretty good for a "second option"), could play all 5 positions...

KG is better than Barkley and Malone as a basketballer. He may not be a better or more dominant scorer, but as an all round basketballer, he is better.

*waits for a post with lots of bolded stats that mainly relate to team-related success rather than individual success, such as defensive and offensive rating*

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Old, Oveweight, Back and Knee Injured Barkley vs Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=barklch01&p2=garneke01

What Would a Healthy Prime Barkley do To Garnett?
:oldlol: An 18 year old KG in his rookie season?

[Legends66NBA7]

Fact is, Malone lost to the legendary 80s Lakers, twice to the Drexler-led Portland team (who both years went to the Finals), twice to Hakeem's NBA champion Rockets, once to Payton's NBA Finals Sonics team, and of course twice to MJ's Bulls. I'm as bummed as anyone that Malone never won a ring but there is a lot of stiff competition there.

He also lost to teams like the Warriors, KJ-Chambers Suns, he was the favourite in one of the series to beat Hakeems Rockets, and as the MVP played horrible in that Blazer series in 99, the year everyone said the Jazz were supposed to win because of no Jordan around...



And for your information, I did not even say Karl or Barkley belonged over Garnett.

Cool, my bad.

[CakeorDeath]

Oh I know, but people are saying Malone and Barkley lost to all time greats. So did KG.

:cheers:

I don't mind if people want to put KG over Karl. But when people label KG as more clutch or more of a winner I think they are forgetting that the Jazz pinched pennies big time throughout Stockton and Malone's careers, which is really a travesty. Management clearly tried to ride them to a championship, hoping that the two of them could mitigate the need to spend. Pretty unbelieveable that they got to the finals two years in a row with a team that included a gimpy Hornacek, Bryon Russell, Shandon Anderson, Greg Ostertag, Adam Keefe, and Antoine Carr. Completely bloody believeable that they lost both times to Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman, a team you could argue was practically built to guard the Jazz.

Even though Jordan pushed off :D

[CakeorDeath]

He also lost to teams like the Warriors, KJ-Chambers Suns, he was the favourite in one of the series to beat Hakeems Rockets, and as the MVP played horrible in that Blazer series in 99, the year everyone said the Jazz were supposed to win because of no Jordan around...




Cool, my bad.


:cheers:

[Round Mound]

I don't know...what would a prime Garnett due to fat Barkley?


:kobe: actin like that was Garnett in his prime.

Ok Lets Do It With 32-40 Year Old Malone and 19-27 Year Old Kevin Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=garneke01

Pretty Even I Must Say and That Was 32-40 Year Old Malone Passed his Prime. Lets Remember from 1985 to 1995 Barkley and Malone Where at Their Peeks. So Ages 22-30 With the Old Rules of Course What Would They Have Done on Garnett? ...Ofcourse Im Talking When the NBA Was Not A ***** Yelling or Mean Face Play or Picking On Smaller Players Era but NBA Rules Where Contact Was Allowed and The League Favored Stronger Players to Wimps in the Post.

[Pointguard]

Lets Also Mention that Barkley and Malone Destroyed Him in the Head to Head Matchups.[/B]
That's a lie.

KG outplays them both in the playoffs.

Once KG moves full time to PF at 21 years of age he's able to outplay Barkley. Before that he's just too young. Barkley retires two years later and says its guys like Garnett that just too long to deal with.

Took a little bit longer to handle Malone but once KG filled out at age 23 in '00 and came into his own in the league, he is hardly ever outplayed by Malone. And its like 15 games and the playoff series was Malone's last horrah in '04.

Basically they weren't really contemporaries.

[Bernie Nips]

Ok Lets Do It With 32-40 Year Old Malone and 19-27 Year Old Kevin Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=garneke01

Pretty Even I Must Say and That Was 32-40 Year Old Malone Passed his Prime. Lets Remember from 1985 to 1995 Barkley and Malone Where at Their Peeks. So Ages 22-30 With the Old Rules of Course What Would They Have Done on Garnett? ...Ofcourse Im Talking When the NBA Was Not A ***** Yelling or Mean Face Play or Picking On Smaller Players Era but NBA Rules Where Contact Was Allowed and The League Favored Stronger Players to Wimps in the Post.

"Passed (sic) his Prime" Malone coincidentally included both his MVP years and when he took Utah to the Finals going up against KG at the start of his career as a Small Forward.

Look, everyone knows you love to skew stats to make your opinion seem legit, but don't you ever feel empty inside when you do it?

Barkley joined up with other superstars past his prime and failed.

Malone joined up with other superstars past his prime and failed.

KG joined up with other superstars past his prime and led them to a championship.

Facts.

[CakeorDeath]

[QUOTE=Bernie Nips] He's the only player in the history of the NBA to have 20,000 points (with over 25,000 now), 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 blocks and 1,500 steals. No other player in the history of the NBA is in that club.QUOTE]

I see this mentioned a lot in arguments for KG over Malone, and it just doesn't really matter all that much for me personally. Sure, it shows KG's completeness as a player, but to play devil's advocate a bit I could just as easily say that Karl Malone is the only player in history to have 35,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,000 blocks, and 2,000 steals. And KG has no chance to join that club.

[Whoah10115]

Ok Lets Do It With 32-40 Year Old Malone and 19-27 Year Old Kevin Garnett

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=malonka01&p2=garneke01

Pretty Even I Must Say and That Was 32-40 Year Old Malone Passed his Prime. Lets Remember from 1985 to 1995 Barkley and Malone Where at Their Peeks. So Ages 22-30 With the Old Rules of Course What Would They Have Done on Garnett? ...Ofcourse Im Talking When the NBA Was Not A ***** Yelling or Mean Face Play or Picking On Smaller Players Era but NBA Rules Where Contact Was Allowed and The League Favored Stronger Players to Wimps in the Post.



Malone's prime lasted until 2 months shy of 37. The one year where their primes somewhat crossed was that 99-00 season and, statistically, KG is not exactly behind.


The reality is that those stats wouldn't do much to change anything. Malone was a great defender, but never anything historic. Apologies to McHale, Duncan, Rodman, DeBusschere, and my boy Oak...KG is the best defensive 4 ever. His impact on defense will not be measured in any statistic.


And again, I'm not even arguing KG over Malone...for career, I'll take Malone by a bit...all 4 of them are close, for career.


McHale doesn't have an argument over KG. Petit was special but I think he's in a fight with Dirk. And Dirk is better than McHale. McHale can't be ranked ahead of 7th and KG should never be ranked below 4. 6th is not ridiculous.

[CakeorDeath]

"Passed (sic) his Prime" Malone coincidentally included both his MVP years and when he took Utah to the Finals going up against KG at the start of his career as a Small Forward.

Look, everyone knows you love to skew stats to make your opinion seem legit, but don't you ever feel empty inside when you do it?

Barkley joined up with other superstars past his prime and failed.

Malone joined up with other superstars past his prime and failed.

KG joined up with other superstars past his prime and led them to a championship.

Facts.

Not really fair to Karl. I think most people tend to feel that Malone would have won a ring had he not been injured for the Finals against Detroit. But alas, we must simply file that one in the "sh!t happens" drawer...

[ProfessorMurder]

:cheers:

I don't mind if people want to put KG over Karl. But when people label KG as more clutch or more of a winner I think they are forgetting that the Jazz pinched pennies big time throughout Stockton and Malone's careers, which is really a travesty. Management clearly tried to ride them to a championship, hoping that the two of them could mitigate the need to spend. Pretty unbelieveable that they got to the finals two years in a row with a team that included a gimpy Hornacek, Bryon Russell, Shandon Anderson, Greg Ostertag, Adam Keefe, and Antoine Carr. Completely bloody believeable that they lost both times to Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Dennis Rodman, a team you could argue was practically built to guard the Jazz.

Even though Jordan pushed off :D

I really liked the Jazz, Stockton and Malone are two of my favorites and they really got the shaft with teammates. Over their 20 years they had who? Eaton, Griffith, Thurl Bailey, and old Hornacek. If they had slightly better role players they could've won.

[Bernie Nips]

[QUOTE=He's the only player in the history of the NBA to have 20,000 points (with over 25,000 now), 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 blocks and 1,500 steals. No other player in the history of the NBA is in that club.QUOTE]

I see this mentioned a lot in arguments for KG over Malone, and it just doesn't really matter all that much for me personally. Sure, it shows KG's completeness as a player, but to play devil's advocate a bit I could just as easily say that Karl Malone is the only player in history to have 35,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,000 blocks, and 2,000 steals. And KG has no chance to join that club.

You could make that argument, Karl had incredible longevity. Averages less rebounds, assists and blocks than KG to put it in perspective (with more turnovers as well). The reason the 1,500/1,500 blocks/steals is brought up is to show how all round KG's defensive game was. It wasn't just camping in the paint and being a defensive beast with his blocks, although he could do that... it wasn't just playing the passing lanes to get the wayward/unknowing pass, although he could do that too. He was elite at all facets at the defensive end.

[ThaRegul8r]

"Passed (sic) his Prime" Malone coincidentally included both his MVP years

Neither of which were deserved, and thus wouldn't be factored if I were a person who made lists.

[Bernie Nips]

Not really fair to Karl. I think most people tend to feel that Malone would have won a ring had he not been injured for the Finals against Detroit. But alas, we must simply file that one in the "sh!t happens" drawer...

The same drawer that holds KG's 09 season, and the '10 Finals (with him not fully recovered and Kendrick going down in Game 6).

[Round Mound]

I Wonder Why Charles Never Talks About Garnett as a GOAT PF Candidate Could He Mean that Garnett`s Soft Ass Would Not Last a Minute in a Tougher NBA Era with Rules that Favored Bulky Frontliners Instead of Skinny Far Range Shooting 7'0 fters? :oldlol:

Barkley Owned Garnett in the Play-Offs and That Was When Barkley Was With the Rockets as 3rd Option at Age 33 Now Lets Take Barkley in the Sixers or Suns Era vs Garnett? Please Get Real...

Barkley age 33 vs Garnett in the Play-Offs

Barkley: 34.7 MPG/ 18.3 PPG on 9.7 FGAs PG/ 51.7% FG/ 10.7 RPG/ 4.3 APG
Garnett: 41.7 MPG/ 17.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs PG/ 47.1% FG/ 9.3 RPG/ 3.7 APG

[DMAVS41]

Would Garnett Destroy a Prime Healthy Sampson like McHale did in the 1986 NBA Finals? McHale Was the Miost Feared Celtic in 1988 and He Was So Good Offensively They Needed To Shift of Centers to Start Guarding Him Per Game.

Did Not Watch Pettit Play but He Won a Ring as The Main Focus of a Team in the Wilt and Russel Era While Having Great Numbers. He Must Be Shown a Little More Respect.

I don't know what KG would have done in certain situations, but having seen the entire careers of both KG and McHale...I think KG is the superior player.

I didn't see Pettit either. My take on the whole PF thing is simple. After Duncan...you could rank Pettit/Barkley/Malone/Dirk/KG in roughly any order.

I personally think KG was better than both Malone / Barkley...but totally understand someone feeling differently.

[CakeorDeath]

The same drawer that holds KG's 09 season, and the '10 Finals (with him not fully recovered and Kendrick going down in Game 6).

Yes, it is a drawer that most of us care not to look in. Y'know, because there is sh!t in it...

[Legends66NBA7]

I Wonder Why Charles Never Talks About Garnett as a GOAT PF Candidate

Because Charles, like when Malone talked about himself as the GOAT PF, is biased.

[ThaRegul8r]

Not really fair to Karl. I think most people tend to feel that Malone would have won a ring had he not been injured for the Finals against Detroit. But alas, we must simply file that one in the "sh!t happens" drawer...

All he had to do was play better in the Finals than he did, '97 for instance, and he would have won a ring. Take a look at his performance in the games the Jazz won versus his performance in the games the Jazz lost. It's like night and day. I hate when people excuse players who won MVP awards yet failed to play up to MVP standards when his team needed it the most, and it's supposed to be some surprise that he never won anything. When are players held accountable for their own performance? It's not like Malone went down like a Jerry West, for instance, so he got what he earned. Nothing.

[Pointguard]

***** Yelling or Mean Face Play or Picking On Smaller Players Era but NBA Rules Where Contact Was Allowed and The League Favored Stronger Players to Wimps in the Post.[/B]
LOL, you can tell its falling apart.

KG was one of the best defensive players ever. Best communicators ever. One of the best passing big man ever. Most versatile big man ever. One of the best help defenders ever. 4 rebounding titles. Was part of one of the best defensive teams ever. DPOY. Was once the most productive and efficient players in the league one year. Was once a top three scorer.

Karl Malone pretty much admitted it on All star weekend that KG was better with the ring statement. And that's his standard. If they both concede that Duncan is the best player between them and KG and Duncan play each other as equal as equal gets - H2H and careerwise.

[ProfessorMurder]

I Wonder Why Charles Never Talks About Garnett as a GOAT PF Candidate Could He Mean that Garnett`s Soft Ass Would Not Last a Minute in a Tougher NBA Era with Rules that Favored Bulky Frontliners Instead of Skinny Far Range Shooting 7'0 fters? :oldlol:

Barkley Owned Garnett in the Play-Offs and That Was When Barkley Was With the Rockets as 3rd Option at Age 33 Now Lets Take Barkley in the Sixers or Suns Era vs Garnett? Please Get Real...

Barkley age 33 vs Garnett in the Play-Offs

Barkley: 34.7 MPG/ 18.3 PPG on 9.7 FGAs PG/ 10.7 RPG/4.3 APG
Garnett: 41.7 MPG/ 17.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs PG/9.3 RPG/3.7 APG

Stop. They didn't even play the same position that year.

Olajuwon, Elie, Drexler, Barkley, Kevin Willis against rookie Starbury, 2nd year Small Forward KG, and Gugliotta. Houston should've killed them.

You can't keep saying KG didn't play against good bigs, but then try and prop up Barkley by saying they played against each other.

[Round Mound]

Because Charles, like when Malone talked about himself as the GOAT PF, is biased.

No Malone says he is the Best and Over Duncan. He Said "Duncan is A Center"

While Barkley Said Duncan is the Best and Himself 2nd. Barkley is Not Biased Malone is.

Thankgod I Was When Of Those who Watched both Malone and Barkley Play When Both Where Healthy and Prime and Know Barkley Was Better But Most Kidds Don`t...Most That Watched Both Say Barkley Ofcourse.

I`d Rank em

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-McHale
6-Garnett
7-Schayes
8-Hayes
9-Webber
10-Gasol

[Whoah10115]

All he had to do was play better in the Finals than he did, '97 for instance, and he would have won a ring. Take a look at his performance in the games the Jazz won versus his performance in the games the Jazz lost. It's like night and day. I hate when people excuse players who won MVP awards yet failed to play up to MVP standards when his team needed it the most, and it's supposed to be some surprise that he never won anything. When are players held accountable for their own performance? It's not like Malone went down like a Jerry West, for instance, so he got what he earned. Nothing.


I don't disagree, but I don't think it's completely accurate. The Bulls were a better team and not only were they the better team but Jordan was the best ever. He even had the better second player. Stockton was great, but even in his prime he wasn't better than Scottie...plus he started to fall a bit.


Malone not putting it all together, the way he didn't put it all together, is fair when ranking him. But I wouldn't call it a choke job. I'd rather give credit to the games where he did beast.


And he played great the next year.

[Whoah10115]

[B]I Wonder Why Charles Never Talks About Garnett as a GOAT PF Candidate Could He Mean that Garnett`s Soft Ass Would Not Last a Minute in a Tougher NBA Era with Rules that Favored Bulky Frontliners Instead of Skinny Far Range Shooting 7'0 fters? :oldlol:


Barkely has actually mentioned KG as one of 5 players in the history of the league that he knows could make the league and be elite, at any height.


I remember Iverson being one of the other 3 or 4 he mentioned. So, you're just saying stuff.

[DMAVS41]

No Malone says he is the Best and Over Duncan. He Said "Duncan is A Center"

While Barkley Said Duncan is the Best and Himself 2nd. Barkley is Not Biased Malone is.

Thankgod I Was When Of Those who Watched both Malone and Barkley Play When Both Where Healthy and Prime and Know Barkley Was Better But Most Kidds Don`t...Most That Watched Both Say Barkley Ofcourse.

I`d Rank em

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-McHale
6-Garnett
7-Schayes
8-Hayes
9-Webber
10-Gasol

Dirk?

[Round Mound]

Stop. They didn't even play the same position that year.

Olajuwon, Elie, Drexler, Barkley, Kevin Willis against rookie Starbury, 2nd year Small Forward KG, and Gugliotta. Houston should've killed them.

You can't keep saying KG didn't play against good bigs, but then try and prop up Barkley by saying they played against each other.

I Wonder Who Guarded Each Other? I Did Not See the Series but Clearly Barkley Outplayed Garnett. That Was Barkley at age 33. People Who Think Barkley in the Rockets = Healthy One in the Sixers and Suns Don`t Know Anything About Barkley, Barkley Was a Total Different Player in the Rockets than With the Sixers/Suns. He Was Healthy till the 1994-95 Season.

Garnett Would Have Trouble Playing the 80s and Early 90s. Long Thin Players Playing in the Post Where Rare and the Only Few How Did Had Dominant Post Games like McHale had.

[Round Mound]

Dirk?

Forgot About Him Since He Plays So Much Like a SF than a PF. I`D Rank Him After Garnett.

[SyRyanYang]

Garnett is a Pippen Type Player. Great All Around but Better as a 2nd Option and No He Aint Better than BOTH Sir Charles and The Mailman.
You mean EITHER? There is no way he's better than both of them combined:confusedshrug:

[Legends66NBA7]

Dirk?

I just realized that too.

:oldlol:

[Round Mound]

Barkely has actually mentioned KG as one of 5 players in the history of the league that he knows could make the league and be elite, at any height.


I remember Iverson being one of the other 3 or 4 he mentioned. So, you're just saying stuff.

Barkley Ranked Garnett 3rd Best Player in the 00s after Shaq and Duncan. I KnowThat and Its True but He Would Definetly Have Trouble Playing in the 80s and Early 90s. There Where More Power Players in the Post than 00s and the Current Era. I Don`t Know What it Is But The Rules Have Changed So Much I Can`t Stand Watching this Long Range Shooting Fest With No Handchecking to Move The Opposers Around. In the Post, Its Just Hilarious Who You are Not Allowed To Use Both Hands Like Before and When Drives You Hit a Normal Foul and Its Flagrant. Its a Disgrace for Oldschool NBA Fans. I Was Used To Power in PFs Not 7ft Jump Shooters.

Garnett Would Have More Trouble in those Eras.

[Round Mound]

You mean EITHER? There is no way he's better than both of them combined:confusedshrug:

I Ment He Was a Similar Player to Pippen. A Great 2nd Option that Makes Others Better Through His All Around Skill But Not 1st Option Player.

[kennethgriffin]

No Malone says he is the Best and Over Duncan. He Said "Duncan is A Center"

While Barkley Said Duncan is the Best and Himself 2nd. Barkley is Not Biased Malone is.

Thankgod I Was When Of Those who Watched both Malone and Barkley Play When Both Where Healthy and Prime and Know Barkley Was Better But Most Kidds Don`t...Most That Watched Both Say Barkley Ofcourse.

I`d Rank em

1-Duncan
2-Barkley
3-Malone
4-Pettit
5-McHale
6-Garnett
7-Schayes
8-Hayes
9-Webber
10-Gasol


putting pettit ahead of garnett but not ahead of barkley and malone is kind of a double standard

its obvious pettit isnt on the same realistic level as any of garnett, barkley, malone, duncan skill wise due to him being a mid 50's to mid 60's tallent

the only realistic argument for a guy from back then to be ahead of anyone from today has to be on an accomplishment type of ranking system


pettit averaged 26 points /16 rebounds for his career
hes a 10 time first team all nba selection
2 time season mvp
and nba champion


this blows barkley, malone and garnett out of the water

but we all know if a guy from the 50's was placed in todays league he would be nowhere near good enough



if you put pettit ahead of garnett it has to be due to accomplishments/statistics

and his outrank malone/barkley/garnett



so pettit either the 2nd best behind duncan

or not in the conversation

[ThaRegul8r]

I don't disagree, but I don't think it's completely accurate. The Bulls were a better team and not only were they the better team but Jordan was the best ever. He even had the better second player. Stockton was great, but even in his prime he wasn't better than Scottie...plus he started to fall a bit.


Malone not putting it all together, the way he didn't put it all together, is fair when ranking him. But I wouldn't call it a choke job. I'd rather give credit to the games where he did beast.


And he played great the next year.

With all due respect, I don't care about excuses. I care about how a player performed in helping his team win. I mentioned Jerry West, who contended with the greatest dynasty in the history of professional sports, led by the greatest winner, who won at unprecedented levels in college, the Olympics and the pros. West played his heart out, and in '69 put up 43/13/12 in Game 7 and won MVP for the series even though his team lost. So I'm much more sympathetic towards him because his own performance was worthy of winning. The same can't be said of Malone. You can't say "What more could he have done?", because he didn't play like an MVP when it mattered. I said nothing about "choking," so please don't put words in my mouth. I said he didn't play up to the MVP award he won when his team needed him to the most. Which is a fact. So he didn't win. No one "deserves" anything. You get what you earn. I hold players accountable for what they do on the court. Others do not. To each his own.

[CakeorDeath]

I don't disagree, but I don't think it's completely accurate. The Bulls were a better team and not only were they the better team but Jordan was the best ever. He even had the better second player. Stockton was great, but even in his prime he wasn't better than Scottie...plus he started to fall a bit.


Malone not putting it all together, the way he didn't put it all together, is fair when ranking him. But I wouldn't call it a choke job. I'd rather give credit to the games where he did beast.


And he played great the next year.

Pretty much what I was going to say. The Bulls were built perfectly to guard the Jazz. Michael could check Hornacek. They could switch Pippen to Stockton when they absolutely needed a stop. They could keep giving Karl different looks/double teams all night using Rodman, Longley, and Brian Williams/Bison Dele because Ostertag was pretty much an offensive liability.

Karl was inconsistent in both series, this is true. Had some monster games, had some awful games. And yes, as an MVP we expected him to rise to the occasion. That he didn't perform well enough to take home the big prize is partly on him, but it is also partly on Rodman and the rest of the Bulls, and let's face it, Phil Jackson.

[Pointguard]

I Wonder Why Charles Never Talks About Garnett as a GOAT PF Candidate Could He Mean that Garnett`s Soft Ass Would Not Last a Minute in a Tougher NBA Era with Rules that Favored Bulky Frontliners Instead of Skinny Far Range Shooting 7'0 fters? :oldlol:

Barkley Owned Garnett in the Play-Offs and That Was When Barkley Was With the Rockets as 3rd Option at Age 33 Now Lets Take Barkley in the Sixers or Suns Era vs Garnett? Please Get Real...

Barkley age 33 vs Garnett in the Play-Offs

Barkley: 34.7 MPG/ 18.3 PPG on 9.7 FGAs PG/ 51.7% FG/ 10.7 RPG/ 4.3 APG
Garnett: 41.7 MPG/ 17.3 PPG on 17.0 FGAs PG/ 47.1% FG/ 9.3 RPG/ 3.7 APG
Garnett was 20 years old playing SF.

KG was definitely the superior player in that series. His defense was always way better than Barkley's but this year, Barkley was a horrible teammate and cost his team big time. He was selfish, wanted to play his game, was in direct opposition with Hakeem and sometimes even Clyde. He blew a great chance there. With that said it came down to Hakeem/Drex and experience being much better than Gugs/Marbury and youth. Not KG and Barkley who cancelled each other out.

[Round Mound]

putting pettit ahead of garnett but not ahead of barkley and malone is kind of a double standard

its obvious pettit isnt on the same realistic level as any of garnett, barkley, malone, duncan skill wise due to him being a mid 50's to mid 60's tallent

the only realistic argument for a guy from back then to be ahead of anyone from today has to be on an accomplishment type of ranking system


pettit averaged 26 points /16 rebounds for his career
hes a 10 time first team all nba selection
2 time season mvp
and nba champion


this blows barkley, malone and garnett out of the water

but we all know if a guy from the 50's was placed in todays league he would be nowhere near good enough



if you put pettit ahead of garnett it has to be due to accomplishments/statistics

and his outrank malone/barkley/garnett



so pettit either the 2nd best behind duncan

or not in the conversation

No I Rank Pettit that Far because He Was The 1st "True" Powerforward since Others Played More Like CFs (thats what Hakeem did and partly so Duncan)

He Attacked the Rim Fronting it Like True Powerforwards

And There is No Way In Garnett Would Have Outplayed a 1986 Sampson. McHale is Easily Better. Offensively Garnett is Not Close While Defensively They Are but Still McHale is the Far More Superior Post Player and Demanded Centers to To Stop Playing the Other Teams Center and Guard Him.

[Round Mound]

Garnett was 20 years old playing SF.

KG was definitely the superior player in that series. His defense was always way better than Barkley's but this year, Barkley was a horrible teammate and cost his team big time. He was selfish, wanted to play his game, was in direct opposition with Hakeem and sometimes even Clyde. He blew a great chance there. With that said it came down to Hakeem/Drex and experience being much better than Gugs/Marbury and youth. Not KG and Barkley who cancelled each other out.

I Already Said I Did Not Watch The Series So My Bad There, Still Barkley Outplayed Garnett at age 33 and Crippled With BOTH Back and Knee Inuries. I Just Wonder Who Garnett Was Guarding....Guess We Will Have to See That on Youtube Someday

Regarding the Other Part...:oldlol: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Funny You Say This Since Rudy "The Coach", Said "...Barkley Was the "Best Team Player" He Ever Had." :confusedshrug:

[kennethgriffin]

No I Rank Pettit that Far because He Was The 1st "True" Powerforward since Others Played More Like CFs (thats what Hakeem did and partly so Duncan)

He Attacked the Rim Fronting it Like True Powerforwards

And There is No Way In Garnett Would Have Outplayed a 1986 Sampson. McHale is Easily Better. Offensively Garnett is Not Close While Defensively They Are but Still McHale is the Far More Superior Post Player and Demanded Centers to To Stop Playing the Other Teams Center and Guard Him.


wait... did you just say pettit is above garnett but not ahead of barkley/malone/duncan due to him being "the first true power forward"


did you really just say that?

:lol


so this stipulation only counts when comparing pettit to kg and nobody else i guess lol

:oldlol:


forget mchale. i know that guy can ball. hes probably got the best power forward offensive post moveset ive ever seen. i got no problem with that dude being ranked anywhere beside malone or barkley

its the pettit thing that ruined you man

you f*cked it all up lol

[Pointguard]

I Already Said I Did Not Watch The Series So My Bad There, Still Barkley Outplayed Garnett at age 33 and Crippled With BOTH Back and Knee Inuries. I Just Wonder Who Garnett Was Guarding....Guess We Will Have to See That on Youtube Someday

Regarding the Other Part...:oldlol: :rolleyes: :facepalm

Funny You Say This Since Rudy "The Coach", Said "...Barkley Was the "Best Team Player" He Ever Had." :confusedshrug:
He didn't outplay him. KG had way more on his plate, more responsibilities, and he went hard at all of them.

Rudy definitely wasn't talking about that year. Ask anybody here who remembers that year. Barkley was foul and way off base. He was in competition with Hakeem.

Barkley could have been the best PF but he chose not to play defense. Really it was on him.

[Round Mound]

He didn't outplay him. KG had way more on his plate, more responsibilities, and he went hard at all of them.

Rudy definitely wasn't talking about that year. Ask anybody here who remembers that year. Barkley was foul and way off base. He was in competition with Hakeem.

Barkley could have been the best PF but he chose not to play defense. Really it was on him.

He Shot the Ball 17 Times Per Game and Averaged 17 Points...Yup That Could Be Seen as Going Hard.

I`ve Heard a Fulll Audio Interview When Rudy Said "Barkley Is The Best Team Player I Ever Had" Yes There Was Trouble With Barkley because Barkley Should Have Retired in 1995. The Dummy Though He Could Still Play at a High Level but He Couldn`t. Also, His Game Needed Posting Up and that Would Take Away from Hakeem so That Was Basically the Problem.

[Whoah10115]

With all due respect, I don't care about excuses. I care about how a player performed in helping his team win. I mentioned Jerry West, who contended with the greatest dynasty in the history of professional sports, led by the greatest winner, who won at unprecedented levels in college, the Olympics and the pros. West played his heart out, and in '69 put up 43/13/12 in Game 7 and won MVP for the series even though his team lost. So I'm much more sympathetic towards him because his own performance was worthy of winning. The same can't be said of Malone. You can't say "What more could he have done?", because he didn't play like an MVP when it mattered. I said nothing about "choking," so please don't put words in my mouth. I said he didn't play up to the MVP award he won when his team needed him to the most. Which is a fact. So he didn't win. No one "deserves" anything. You get what you earn. I hold players accountable for what they do on the court. Others do not. To each his own.



I'm not making an excuse. Malone didn't give a performance that was on par with being the MVP. The next year, I don't really agree. I think he got beat by the better team and the better player. There is no crying for him getting beat. It's a shame that a player that great doesn't have a ring, because it is what it is. I don't think his performance did anything to discredit how great a player he was and the next season was simply due to him not being as good as the other guy.

[Pointguard]

wait... did you just say pettit is above garnett but not ahead of barkley/malone/duncan due to him being "the first true power forward"

did you really just say that?

:lol

so this stipulation only counts when comparing pettit to kg and nobody else i guess lol

:oldlol:

forget mchale. i know that guy can ball. hes probably got the best power forward offensive post moveset ive ever seen. i got no problem with that dude being ranked anywhere beside malone or barkley

its the pettit thing that ruined you man

you f*cked it all up lol
Barkley had trouble with Mchale - I remember him decimating Barkley in the playoffs one year - and Barkley speaks of him often as being one of the better PF. So he has to go along with his idol.

[Round Mound]

wait... did you just say pettit is above garnett but not ahead of barkley/malone/duncan due to him being "the first true power forward"


did you really just say that?

:lol


Yes..Chaning The Game and Rule Changing Define Greatness

so this stipulation only counts when comparing pettit to kg and nobody else i guess lol

:oldlol:

Garnett is Not a 1st Optin Scorer and Doesn`t Have the Whole Focus of The Team Trying to Stop Him. So No, As I Said Before, Garnett is a Pippen like Player, a Great 2nd Option...Maybe Even The Best Along Pippen.

forget mchale. i know that guy can ball. hes probably got the best power forward offensive post moveset ive ever seen. i got no problem with that dude being ranked anywhere beside malone or barkley

its the pettit thing that ruined you man

you f*cked it all up lol

:cheers:

[Round Mound]

Barkley had trouble with Mchale - I remember him decimating Barkley in the playoffs one year - and Barkley speaks of him often as being one of the better PF. So he has to go along with his idol.

Nope Barkley Actually Says McHale "Is The Best Player He Faced in his Position" Mostly Do To the Fact He Was The Only Player that Gave Him Fits Offensively and Defensively, Also McHale Had The Most Skilled Post Game in the History of the Game. No One Had More Moves or Invented More Foot and Body Movement Tools than McHale, Ever. Despite that He Was Not Better than Barkley. Barkley Could Do Alot More Things than Just Play in the Post.

[Pointguard]

He Shot the Ball 17 Times Per Game and Averaged 17 Points...Yup That Could Be Seen as Going Hard.

I`ve Heard a Fulll Audio Interview When Rudy Said "Barkley Is The Best Team Player I Ever Had" Yes There Was Trouble With Barkley because Barkley Should Have Retired in 1995. The Dummy Though He Could Still Play at a High Level but He Couldn`t. Also, His Game Needed Posting Up and that Would Take Away from Hakeem so That Was Basically the Problem.
I really doubt that Rudy said that because Barkley wasn't part of what he built and won a championship with and he broke up what little they had. The year after Barkley arrives they were a 500 team. And then Pippen arrives and he too can't get along with Barkley but improves the teams' record. Barkley in Houston wasn't good.

There was nothing wrong with KG taking 17 shots. He was already the leader of his team at 20years of age. Barkley was the anti-leader... .

[Tking714]

Give me the 7 footer with elite defensive instincts, and a silky jumpshot. The other players I can fill in

[kennethgriffin]

wait... did you just say pettit is above garnett but not ahead of barkley/malone/duncan due to him being "the first true power forward"


did you really just say that?

:lol


Yes..Chaning The Game and Rule Changing Define Greatness

so this stipulation only counts when comparing pettit to kg and nobody else i guess lol

:oldlol:

Garnett is Not a 1st Optin Scorer and Doesn`t Have the Whole Focus of The Team Trying to Stop Him. So No, Asi I Said Before, Garnett is a Pippen like Player, a Great 2nd Option...Maybe Even The Best Along Pippen.

forget mchale. i know that guy can ball. hes probably got the best power forward offensive post moveset ive ever seen. i got no problem with that dude being ranked anywhere beside malone or barkley

its the pettit thing that ruined you man

you f*cked it all up lol

:cheers:


your not getting the point i'm trying to make.

you say pettit is above garnett purely based on the fact that pettit changed the game.

so why isnt he ahead of barkley then? why is that loop hole only used for garnett? lol

as for first option scorer... he was for most of his career. and became a 2nd option scorer because he was traded to a super team.

its like saying wade isnt a first option scorer... he was for most of his career. but ofcourse now he isnt due to him playing with lebron

pierce was a more dominant offensive option. so garnett dialed it back to focus on defense and rebounding

i mean... garnett averaged 21ppg for his career before getting to boston. now its at 19ppg

barkley averaged 22ppg for his career

big woop




like i said before... both are great offensive players, both are great passers, both are great rebounders

but only one of them was a great defensive player

barkley wasnt even an above average defender. he was p*ss poor


garnett could make the hall of fame just on his defensive side of the game

forget the fact that he was a hall of fame offensive player.

thats the difference



garnett has an entire side of basketball over barkleys head

[kennethgriffin]

Give me the 7 footer with elite defensive instincts, and a silky jumpshot. The other players I can fill in


this




take garnetts 20ppg over barkleys 22ppg


if the 20ppg comes with legendary top 5 all time defense


lol

it shouldnt even be close when you consider barkley never WON JACK SH*T

[Pointguard]

Nope Barkley Actually Says McHale "Is The Best Player He Faced in his Position" Mostly Do To the Fact He Was The Only Player that Gave Him Fits Offensively and Defensively, Also McHale Had The Most Skilled Post Game in the History of the Game. No One Had More Moves or Invented More Foot and Body Movement Tools than McHale, Ever. Despite that He Was Not Better than Barkley. Barkley Could Do Alot More Things than Just Play in the Post.
What are you saying nope about? You just repeated what I said - Barkley speaks high of McHale. And Mchale did bust him up in the playoffs.

Barkley was more versatile than most other PF's but was not as versatile as KG.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Round Mound, we all know Barkley was a better scorer than KG, you're wasting your time posting all those scoring numbers. But he was an undersized mediocre defender while KG was (and still is) an elite defensive anchor.

And you simply weren't watching the 2007-2008 Celtics if you think KG wasn't the first option of that team. At the absolute worst he was 1b to Pierce (and still lead the team in scoring in the Playoffs).

[kennethgriffin]

Round Mound, we all know Barkley was a better scorer than KG, you're wasting your time posting all those scoring numbers. But he was an undersized mediocre defender while KG was (and still is) an elite defensive anchor.

And you simply weren't watching the 2007-2008 Celtics if you think KG wasn't the first option of that team. At the absolute worst he was 1b to Pierce (and still lead the team in scoring in the Playoffs).

exactly...


the 2008 celtics were a defensive team... they could have had anyone on the team be 1st option and they still woulda won games... they coulda had james posey averaging 15 shots a game and they still woulda won 60 games


it was KG's team... just like the 2004 pistons was big bens team...


difference is KG will give you big ben type defense/rebounding. and drop nearly 20ppg

[MMM]

Round Mound, we all know Barkley was a better scorer than KG, you're wasting your time posting all those scoring numbers. But he was an undersized mediocre defender while KG was (and still is) an elite defensive anchor.

And you simply weren't watching the 2007-2008 Celtics if you think KG wasn't the first option of that team. At the absolute worst he was 1b to Pierce (and still lead the team in scoring in the Playoffs).

KG was our best player on offense and defense but he might not have been our first option due to more stuff being ran for Paul. However, I think what people really mean to say is Pierce was the closer on that team and that we ran stuff through him at the end of games. At the same time these people forget that KG was our leading scorer, rebounder and best defender in the 2008 playoff run.

Just because he wasn't a "closer" which many big men aren't anyways that doesn't take away from his importance to the Celtics offense. Once again he was our best player on both sides of the court.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

KG was our best player on offense and defense but he might not have been our first option due to more stuff being ran for Paul. However, I think what people really mean to say is Pierce was the closer on that team and that we ran stuff through him at the end of games. At the same time these people forget that KG was our leading scorer, rebounder and best defender in the 2008 playoff run.

Just because he wasn't a "closer" which many big men aren't anyways that doesn't take away from his importance to the Celtics offense. Once again he was our best player on both sides of the court.
Even then though, KG lead the team in 4th quarter scoring that Playoff run. I always laugh when people try to discredit KG's 2008 championship run. He anchored the defense (which is what got them the title) while being the leading scorer in the Playoffs, what more do you want from him?

[PrettyCool]

I generally agree. Garnetts defense imo uplifts him over the two. Kg statistically will be known as the less efficient Barkley (but still efficient) but an infinitely better defensive player. I say that cause both were the best big man passers of all time.

[Round Mound]

your not getting the point i'm trying to make.

you say pettit is above garnett purely based on the fact that pettit changed the game.

so why isnt he ahead of barkley then? why is that loop hole only used for garnett? lol

Because Garnett is NOT a 1st Option Scorer or Has the Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes on Him.

as for first option scorer... he was for most of his career. and became a 2nd option scorer because he was traded to a super team.

But He Wasn`t an Elite Scorer With High FG% Per Shot Taken. He Was and Is Basically a 7`0 ft Mid Range Jumg Shooter.

its like saying wade isnt a first option scorer... he was for most of his career. but ofcourse now he isnt due to him playing with lebron

Wade `s Game Infact Forces the Other Teams Whole Defensive Scheme to Direct at Him and Is a Much More Versatile and Efficient Scorer than Garnett (efficiency according to position i mean)

pierce was a more dominant offensive option. so garnett dialed it back to focus on defense and rebounding

But Garnett Can Do More Things...Garnett Was The Best Player in the 2008 Boston Championshipg. Rebounds, Defense, Solid Score, Creating and Assisting etc.

i mean... garnett averaged 21ppg for his career before getting to boston. now its at 19ppg

barkley averaged 22ppg for his career

big woop

You are Talking Int a Count a 1996-2000 Barkley NOT THE REAL BARKLEY.


like i said before... both are great offensive players, both are great passers, both are great rebounders

but only one of them was a great defensive player

barkley wasnt even an above average defender. he was p*ss poor

Barkley`s Offense Was Just Way Higher than Garnett` Defense...Look at FG% Per Shot Taken and Offensive Rating Per Possesiong Used.

Barkley`s Offensive Rating`s Difference vs Garnett is Much Higher than Garnett`s Defensivfe Rating Difference vs Charles.

garnett could make the hall of fame just on his defensive side of the game

forget the fact that he was a hall of fame offensive player.

thats the difference

He is a HOF Worthy Player (Rodman and Miller Are Not)

garnett has an entire side of basketball over barkleys head

Barkley Was a Total Focus on The Other Teams Defensive Schemes In Ways That Would Later Demmand Rule Changes. Rule Changers > Good Defensive Players. BTW, Barkley Was More Skilled, a Better Shooter, a Better Passer, a Better Rebounder and a Better Play-Off Performer than Garnett Ever Was.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

You are Talking Int a Count a 1996-2000 Barkley NOT THE REAL BARKLEY.


And you're taking into account the pre-2009 knee injury KG (when he was already past his prime)

[fpliii]

this




take garnetts 20ppg over barkleys 22ppg


if the 20ppg comes with legendary top 5 all time defense


lol

it shouldnt even be close when you consider barkley never WON JACK SH*T

what's good griff

In your opinion, who are the top 10 all-time defensive bigs? What about top 5 all-time defensive teams?

[Mrofir]

Cool thread. OP makes some good points.

Still comes down to barkley and malone were denied championships by MJ

Garnett just lost.

Put prime Barkley on those solid Twolves teams and they would have been legit ring contenders every single year and without mj in the way, would have won at least 1.

[Pointguard]

Barkley Was a Total Focus on The Other Teams Defensive Schemes In Ways That Would Later Demmand Rule Changes. Rule Changers > Good Defensive Players. BTW, Barkley Was More Skilled, a Better Shooter, a Better Passer, a Better Rebounder and a Better Play-Off Performer than Garnett Ever Was.
KG was more skilled. His skill sets were C, PF, SF, PF on offense and all of the skill sets defensively. Lead his team to WCF while leading it in pts, rebounds, assist and blocks while being its best defender. Sorry Barkley could never dream of doing that. KG was a more consistent passer throughout his career and was the main distributor on a team that made it to the WCF's a team that had poor shooters and no real finishers. KG won four rebounding titles while having way more on his plate than Barkley ever had. KG multitasking, and playing all league defense was a top rebounder in the league four times. Its very different when you are simply the best in the league. It stands out more when you consider the mulch-tasking.

KG was dominant in three deep playoff runs - sorry guy, defense is half the game. So I'm not giving Barkley that either. Barkley has no playoff run equivalent to '08. Boston, because of KG communication of defense in the command tower, didn't allow any team in the paint. So the better playoff performer is not a given either. Duncan, the unanimous acceptance as number one, is also given this credit.

[bdreason]

Honestly, I would probably pick KG to build around over both Barkley and Malone.

[LA Lakers]

In their primes KG doesn't hold a candle to Mailman and Sir Charles.

[kennethgriffin]

In their primes KG doesn't hold a candle to Mailman and Sir Charles.


and? tracy mcgrady in his prime is a top 10 player all time

career wise on the other hand he isnt even top 50


your point?


garnetts career is better... his prime wasnt as good but it was close..

2000-2007 average = 23ppg, 13rpg, 5apg, 1.6blks, 50%fg's, 80% ft's
best defensive player in basketball

[Harison]

KG was our best player on offense and defense but he might not have been our first option due to more stuff being ran for Paul. However, I think what people really mean to say is Pierce was the closer on that team and that we ran stuff through him at the end of games. At the same time these people forget that KG was our leading scorer, rebounder and best defender in the 2008 playoff run.

Just because he wasn't a "closer" which many big men aren't anyways that doesn't take away from his importance to the Celtics offense. Once again he was our best player on both sides of the court.

"During Celtics title run, in the playoffs KG was the team's leading scorer overall: KG - 20.4 ppg, 50% FG, 81% FT, Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 44% FG, 80% FT, Allen - 15.6 ppg, 43% FG, 91% FT

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce’s game 7 explosion against Cleveland. In the other 9 such games, KG averaged 23.7 ppg and Pierce 18.2 ppg).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the playoffs (128 points on 53% FG vs. Pierce's 103 points on 36% FG).

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in the 4th quarter of the 12 games in the playoffs decided by 7 points or less (i.e. close games): KG 66 points/49% FG, Pierce 54 points/31% FG.

KG was by-far the Celtics' leading 4th quarter scorer in the REALLY close games (i.e. 3 games decided by 4 points or less): KG 22 points/50% FG, Pierce 3 points/20% FG.

And keep in mind all of the above is just SCORING, supposedly Pierce's strength and KG's weakness. This doesn't even get into other aspects of the game like defense or rebounding, where KG dominates."

Courtesy of drza.

There is nothing surprising for KG to be go-to guy and main scoring option, he did it for majority of his career. Whats impressive in this case for KG to be much better closer and 4Q guy than two of the best closers in NBA - Pierce and Ray. Anyone who wants to discredit KG, should really look at the data and let it sink in - KG was MUCH better at closing games than Ray/Pierce were during the title run.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

[QUOTE=Harison]"During Celtics title run, in the playoffs KG was the team's leading scorer overall: KG - 20.4 ppg, 50% FG, 81% FT, Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 44% FG, 80% FT, Allen - 15.6 ppg, 43% FG, 91% FT

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce

[Rubio2Gasol]

:applause: Thank you.

KG's 2008 title run gets discredited way to often, despite the fact that he did everything for his team (something he's used to, considering he did it for his entire T-Wolves career).

But But But No Filnals MVP :rant

Finals MVP is a flawed award - it's for a series - not the playoffs. Even so he probably should have won the Finals MVP anyway.

[MMM]

[QUOTE=Harison]"During Celtics title run, in the playoffs KG was the team's leading scorer overall: KG - 20.4 ppg, 50% FG, 81% FT, Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 44% FG, 80% FT, Allen - 15.6 ppg, 43% FG, 91% FT

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce

[necya]

after reading some pages, i see some are just pathetic posters
we can read something like "It's not like Malone went down like a Jerry West" or the smart debate around the "match-up" of a random 97 western conference first round, the classic and stupid way to compare 2 players by our friend roundmound and the cream of crop, now Garnett is better than Malone and Barkley...
i'm just asking to myself if there is someone here who remember how played Barkley and Malone between 88 and 95, where Charles got a MVP award in a league who saw prime Jordan, prime Olajuwon, prime Robinson, prime Ewing.

and the OP...:facepalm

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Because Garnett is NOT a 1st Option Scorer or Has the Whole Other Teams Defensive Schemes on Him.

So when he averaged 24 ppg (team high) on 50% in his MVP season, teams weren't focusing their defensive schemes on him? :facepalm

Reading this thread it's clear Round Mound is taking his dislike for this era and using it to fuel his argument against Garnett.

[tontoz]

KG is just a soft jump shooter who was never known to be clutch. When the game was on the line he was looking to pass. He didn't want the burden on him.

[knicksman]

garnett is the lebron of pfs. Overrated because of stats but not really a franchise player

[bizil]

I think KG is getting to the point where he can be regarded in the GOAT sense as the 2nd best PF ever. He's a former league MVP and All Star MVP like Chuck and Mailman. He's a former defensive MVP and has an epic amount of All Star games under his belt. Peak value wise, I consider KG a number one option or Batman. But I don't think he's the level of Batman that Chuck, Mailman, or a Dirk was. But KG was so versatile and dominant that u can make the case peak value wise he was the better player. I think in terms of PF's and C's, the race is closest as far as the best player. Magic is clearly my PG, MJ my SG, Bird or Bron at SF. At PF and Center I would think about four guys at each spot to take. But GOAT wise, Duncan is the man at PF.

[bizil]

and? tracy mcgrady in his prime is a top 10 player all time

career wise on the other hand he isnt even top 50


your point?


garnetts career is better... his prime wasnt as good but it was close..

2000-2007 average = 23ppg, 13rpg, 5apg, 1.6blks, 50%fg's, 80% ft's
best defensive player in basketball

The only reason why KG's prime isn't as good is due to PPG. But KG in my book had ENOUGH stage presence to be a number one option not a number two option. And KG is ARGUABLY the most versatile player of all time. So ANYBODY who says KG doesn't hold a candle to Malone and Chuck is smokin some of the greatest trees on earth! Sure u could lean to Malone and Chuck, but KG was an epic mismatch problem. And don't forget KG played a ton of SF early in his career. KG and Dirk were actually the reason the game became supersized 12-13 years ago.

[veilside23]

When will we get tired of these things???

malone and barkley were better scorers yes but any given night KG showed he can also score at will...

What separates kg from both? DEFENSE that is the reason why he got his ring and those 2 doesnt...

[veilside23]

KG is just a soft jump shooter who was never known to be clutch. When the game was on the line he was looking to pass. He didn't want the burden on him.


soft jumpshooter?? LoL i guess that makes you 4 years old ?

[DMAVS41]

When will we get tired of these things???

malone and barkley were better scorers yes but any given night KG showed he can also score at will...

What separates kg from both? DEFENSE that is the reason why he got his ring and those 2 doesnt...

How did Dirk get his ring then? Malone played way better defense than Dirk ever has.

[veilside23]

How did Dirk get his ring then? Malone played way better defense than Dirk ever has.


CHANDLER what happen the year after??? please enlighten me ...

so are you saying that malone = kg's defense?

he also had kid who is one of the best defensive pg's

marion defensive player as well...

darn here we go again ?

what did kg do??

kg turned allen into a defensive player something that we wasnt known for

pierce played defense better

because of who??

KG ...

get out of here dirk you are just jealous that dirk isnt even that mchale

[DMAVS41]

CHANDLER what happen the year after??? please enlighten me ...

so are you saying that malone = kg's defense?

he also had kid who is one of the best defensive pg's

marion defensive player as well...

darn here we go again ?

what did kg do??

kg turned allen into a defensive player something that we wasnt known for

pierce played defense better

because of who??

KG ...

get out of here dirk you are just jealous that dirk isnt even that mchale

Learn to type coherently please. None of what you say above is easy to follow at all.

You made a statement that Malone and Barkley don't have rings because they aren't the same type of defender that KG is. I totally agree that KG is an all time great defender and much better than both...specifically Barkley.

So I just asked how Dirk won...if you have to be an elite defender to win. Then you responded with CHANDLER....

Well, then couldn't I just respond with...PIERCE?

And LOL at thinking Dirk won't go down as a better player than Mchale. There is 1 power forward in the history of the game for sure better than Dirk. That is Duncan. After that....nobody is clear cut better at all.

[Rysio]

lol no. other than the 20 foot fadeaway what other moves did/does kg have? none. he's more of a hustle player than a superstar. pretty much a jokimh noah with better jumper.

[veilside23]

Learn to type coherently please. None of what you say above is easy to follow at all.

You made a statement that Malone and Barkley don't have rings because they aren't the same type of defender that KG is. I totally agree that KG is an all time great defender and much better than both...specifically Barkley.

So I just asked how Dirk won...if you have to be an elite defender to win. Then you responded with CHANDLER....

Well, then couldn't I just respond with...PIERCE?

And LOL at thinking Dirk won't go down as a better player than Mchale. There is 1 power forward in the history of the game for sure better than Dirk. That is Duncan. After that....nobody is clear cut better at all.


pierce who??? did you even care to read the entire thread or you are just attacking my post do you want me to post a clear data ? that was just posted if you only Read?

tell me this then DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS .... that is the reason why Dirk won he did his thing but his team mates defended well....

Kg may not have won finals mvp but we all know he deserved it as well...

i rest my case dirk homer who thinks that only duncan is clear cut better than dirk .... LoL really .... Malone is a better defender and a better scorer than dirk so is barkley.. barkley is a better rebounder and a better ISo player than dirk.. Dirk only knows how to shoot thats it ... see where i am coming from?

[veilside23]

lol no. other than the 20 foot fadeaway what other moves did/does kg have? none. he's more of a hustle player than a superstar. pretty much a jokimh noah with better jumper.


hustle player? you are to generous kg is like Reggie evans with jumper...

Kg

Only player in NBA history to reach at least 25,000 points, 10,000 rebounds, 5,000 assists, 1,500 steals and 1,500 blocks in his career

I guess hustle players can do that too ?

[DMAVS41]

pierce who??? did you even care to read the entire thread or you are just attacking my post do you want me to post a clear data ? that was just posted if you only Read?

tell me this then DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS .... that is the reason why Dirk won he did his thing but his team mates defended well....

Kg may not have won finals mvp but we all know he deserved it as well...

i rest my case dirk homer who thinks that only duncan is clear cut better than dirk .... LoL really .... Malone is a better defender and a better scorer than dirk so is barkley.. barkley is a better rebounder and a better ISo player than dirk.. Dirk only knows how to shoot thats it ... see where i am coming from?

You need a lot to win championships. Defense is of course important. But so is having a guy that can carry a team offensively at times.

The notion that Chandler brings more to the table than Paul Pierce in terms of winning is laughable.

I'm a huge fan of KG....totally agree that he was the best player on the Celtics in 08 and did deserve finals MVP.

My point is that you can win many ways and that basketball simply cannot be broken down into offense vs offense and defense vs defense.

How did Magic Johnson win titles? Teams need to be able to play a certain level of defense to win...but individual players is a different story.

And it is you who is extremely biased. Anyone that has watched the last 14 years of basketball with any objectivity at all would never be able to laugh off a Dirk vs KG debate. Because it is absolutely debatable.

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

lol no. other than the 20 foot fadeaway what other moves did/does kg have?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VQVYrtnYzs

[veilside23]

And it is you who is extremely biased. Anyone that has watched the last 14 years of basketball with any objectivity at all would never be able to laugh off a Dirk vs KG debate. Because it is absolutely debatable.


dirk was not a part of this topic only a homer like you added dirk in this ...
am i the one BIASED?? :D

out of kg malone dirk barkley kg has proven he can be the #1 option both sides offense and defense...

[DMAVS41]

dirk was not a part of this topic only a homer like you added dirk in this ...
am i the one BIASED?? :D

out of kg malone dirk barkley kg has proven he can be the #1 option both sides offense and defense...

KG is clearly the worst offensive player out of those 3. :facepalm

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

KG is clearly the worst offensive player out of those 3. :facepalm
He's still a great offensive player though, can any of those guys say that they were great defenders? Malone maybe, but definitely not Barkley and Dirk.

[DMAVS41]

He's still a great offensive player though, can any of those guys say that they were great defenders? Malone maybe, but definitely not Barkley and Dirk.

I misread your earlier post.

Yes, KG was clearly the best all around player between all of them. But that isn't how basketball works. Sometimes a specialized skillset has more value.

On paper KG should just destroy guys like Barkley and Dirk in terms of overall impact...but we all know that just isn't the case.

Basketball is far more complicated than such a simplistic breakdown. Which is why I would struggle on who to start my franchise with between Dirk and KG. And if you think I'm biased about Dirk...replace Dirk with Barkley.

Although I do think Dirk was better than Barkley so it changes my mind a bit. But you get the idea.

[Round Mound]

Charles Barkley had Bigger Play-Off Games than Garnett has Ever Had:

44 Points and 24 Rebounds in a 7 Game (to Reach the Finals) While Shooting 60% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi-oVrsJ_20

43 Points, 15 Rebounds and 10 Assists in Game 5 of that Series While Shooting 72.7% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8uslri5b8

56 Points (27 1st Quarter and 11/11 FG/FGAs) ,14 Rebounds and 4 Assists While Shooting 74.2% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8uslri5b8

Barkley > Garnett

[Bernie Nips]

[QUOTE=Harison]"During Celtics title run, in the playoffs KG was the team's leading scorer overall: KG - 20.4 ppg, 50% FG, 81% FT, Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 44% FG, 80% FT, Allen - 15.6 ppg, 43% FG, 91% FT

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce

[Pointguard]

Charles Barkley had Bigger Play-Off Games than Garnett has Ever Had:

44 Points and 24 Rebounds in a 7 Game (to Reach the Finals) While Shooting 60% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi-oVrsJ_20

43 Points, 15 Rebounds and 10 Assists in Game 5 of that Series While Shooting 72.7% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8uslri5b8

56 Points (27 1st Quarter and 11/11 FG/FGAs) ,14 Rebounds and 4 Assists While Shooting 74.2% FG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef8uslri5b8

Barkley > Garnett

Game 6 Fri, May 30 Boston Celtics 89@ Detroit Pistons 81
Game 3 Sat, May 24 Boston Celtics 94@ Detroit Pistons 80
Game 1 Tue, May 6 Cleveland Cavaliers 72 @ Boston Celtics 76
Game 2 Thu, May 8 Cleveland Cavaliers 73@ Boston Celtics 89
Game 7 Sun, May 4 Atlanta Hawks 65 @ Boston Celtics 99
Game 2 Wed, April 23 Atlanta Hawks 77 @ Boston Celtics 96


KG > Barkley

[Round Mound]

Game 6 Fri, May 30 Boston Celtics 89@ Detroit Pistons 81
Game 3 Sat, May 24 Boston Celtics 94@ Detroit Pistons 80
Game 1 Tue, May 6 Cleveland Cavaliers 72 @ Boston Celtics 76
Game 2 Thu, May 8 Cleveland Cavaliers 73@ Boston Celtics 89
Game 7 Sun, May 4 Atlanta Hawks 65 @ Boston Celtics 99
Game 2 Wed, April 23 Atlanta Hawks 77 @ Boston Celtics 96


KG > Barkley

You Must Be No More Than Age 20 To Say Garnett > Barkley

Everyone Knows in the Play-Offs Barkley > Garnett.

[Dro]

You Must Be No More Than Age 20 To Say Garnett > Barkley

Everyone Knows in the Play-Offs Barkley > Garnett.
This is true....Barkley was a monster in the playoffs...I thought this was common knowledge:confusedshrug:

[gengiskhan]

Garnett is a Pippen Type Player. Great All Around but Better as a 2nd Option and No He Aint Better than BOTH Sir Charles and The Mailman.

This.

Charles beat GOAT to win MVP in 1993.
Mailman beat GOAT to win MVP in 1997.

charles / mailman season MVPs >> Garnett MVP.

Charles went to NBA Finals as lead option
Mailman went to NBA Finals TWICE as lead option.

Garnett got carried in NBA Finals as Pierce & Rondo combo won FMVP.

[Bernie Nips]

This.

Charles beat GOAT to win MVP in 1993.
Mailman beat GOAT to win MVP in 1997.

charles / mailman season MVPs >> Garnett MVP.

Charles went to NBA Finals as lead option
Mailman went to NBA Finals TWICE as lead option.

Garnett got carried in NBA Finals as Pierce & Rondo combo won FMVP.

[QUOTE=Harison]"During Celtics title run, in the playoffs KG was the team's leading scorer overall: KG - 20.4 ppg, 50% FG, 81% FT, Pierce - 19.7 ppg, 44% FG, 80% FT, Allen - 15.6 ppg, 43% FG, 91% FT

KG was the Celtics' leading scorer in all pivotal games where the series was tied and the winner would take the series lead: KG 22.6 ppg, Pierce 20.5 ppg in 10 such games (this includes, by the way, Pierce

[gengiskhan]

Plus KG finished 3rd in MVP voting in 2008, the year he won a championship. "Carried" by Pierce and Rondo, hey?

Faaaak 3rd position!

Mailman was RUNNER-UP MVP to GOAT in 1998. If he won That would've been Mail man's 3rd MVP for career

Sir Charles was RUNNER-UP MVP to GOAT in 1990. If he won that would've been Charles's 2nd MVP for career

Ever thought of that.

BTW, Pierce won FMVP as Garnett just collected ring. CELTICS 2nd best player in NBA Finals was RONDO not Garnett

now do the math again! :coleman:

Garnett's true comparison is another SOFTY called Chris Webber.

Sir Charles & Mail Man are out of his league.

[Bernie Nips]

Faaaak 3rd position!

Mailman was RUNNER-UP MVP to GOAT in 1998. If he won That would've been Mail man's 3rd MVP for career

Sir Charles was RUNNER-UP MVP to GOAT in 1990. If he won that would've been Charles's 2nd MVP for career

Ever thought of that.

BTW, Pierce won FMVP as Garnett just collected ring. CELTICS 2nd best player in NBA Finals was RONDO not Garnett

now do the math again! :coleman:

Garnett's true comparison is another SOFTY called Chris Webber.

Sir Charles & Mail Man are out of his league.

Yeah, 3rd in MVP in a CHAMPIONSHIP season. Shaq did that in 2001, he mustn't be very good.

How'd Malone and Chuck go there? Oh, they don't know what it's like.

And Rondo? Who averaged a whopping 9.3ppg / 6.6 apg in the Finals?

I know you're a troll, but you're awful at it. At least be subtle or something.

PS: Garnett was runner up MVP in 2003 behind GOAT PF ermahgerd dat woulda been his second MVP ermahgerddddd

[Kevin_Garnett_5]

Garnett was the 3rd best player in the 2008 Finals series, but definitely not behind Rondo. It was behind Pierce and Ray.

Even then he was their best player on both ends throughout the regular season, and far and away their best player on both ends in the Playoffs.