Clippers and Wizards Had Trade Veto'd By Sterling At Deadline

[Clippersfan86]

"The Los Angeles Clippers and Washington Wizards had an agreement in principle on the eve of the deadline involving a trade of Caron Butler for Trevor Ariza, according to sources.

Donald Sterling rejected the trade a few hours before the deadline in fear of ruining the team's chemistry.

Butler continues to have a home in the Washington D.C. area, while Ariza would have given the Clippers a wing defender with length."

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/226375/Clippers-Wizards-Had-Butler-For-Ariza-Trade-Agreed-Upon


Wow Sterling really seems to care about these guys and what the team does lately :applause: :applause: . Kudos to this veto. Butler is better than Ariza this year. They do similar things but the difference is Butler has experience and leadership he gives this team, not to mention he's a great chemistry guy.

This would have been categorized as "Making a trade, just to make a trade".



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk-qHDsvRRc

[SilkkTheShocker]

ok

[imnew09]

Imagine Ariza comes to the Clippers, it would be LAL all over again. :lol

[Darius]

Wha??? If he veto'd this he is a fool.

[Clippersfan86]

Wha??? If he veto'd this he is a fool.

Ariza isn't the Ariza of the Lakers anymore bro. He's putting up 8 ppg on 40 percent shooting from the field, 31 percent from deep. Butler is putting up 10 ppg on 43 percent shooting from the field 39 from deep. Not to mention Ariza would have been a 3 month rental anyways. Just makes ZERO sense to pull off this trade. 3 years ago sure, not now.

The main thing Clippers fans should take from this is Donald caring about team chemistry enough to veto it. That's a big step up from the old Sterling.

[DuMa]

good veto. dont break up the chemistry when the starting unit hasnt really played together all year long yet

[Whoah10115]

That's a stupid veto.


Ariza runs the floor much better than Butler does. He does a better job spotting open in the corner than Butler does. Butler just clutters the offense by standing in midrange land and waiting for Paul to feed him for a jumpshot that he chooses to iso into a jumpshot.



Ariza isn't the Ariza of the Lakers anymore bro. He's putting up 8 ppg on 40 percent shooting from the field, 31 percent from deep. Butler is putting up 10 ppg on 43 percent shooting from the field 39 from deep. Not to mention Ariza would have been a 3 month rental anyways. Just makes ZERO sense to pull off this trade. 3 years ago sure, not now.

The main thing Clippers fans should take from this is Donald caring about team chemistry enough to veto it. That's a big step up from the old Sterling.



Caron Butler isn't the same Caron Butler anymore either. And Ariza is the same player he was on the Lakers, but playing with worse teammates. That's the only difference.

[Clippersfan86]

Caron>Trevor this year. People don't understand that while Caron is streaky in general nowadays he's been good the last month or more for the most part and his leadership and locker room presence is huge. He's one of our 3 main vets who keep guys in line along with CP3+Billups. Factor in that he's an unrestricted free agent this year and it's a no brainer. Sterling won the day.

BTW Butler is one of the best spot up shooters in the NBA this year, much better than Ariza I believe. A shooting chart should be available to verify this.

[Clifton]

Bad veto. Ariza was exactly what the Clippers need. For one thing, he's totally useless with the ball in his hands, so wouldn't distract from Paul and Griffin being LA's offense. For another, he is long, and this Clips team is in desperate need of length.

And Butler is exactly what the Wizards need.

Both players are totally wasted on the teams they're on.

[Clifton]

Caron>Trevor this year. People don't understand that while Caron is streaky in general nowadays he's been good the last month or more for the most part and his leadership and locker room presence is huge. He's one of our 3 main vets who keep guys in line along with CP3+Billups.
It's about having the right players not the best players. And as you said, CP3 + Billups. Not everyone on the team has to be a leader. He's wasted there. All he does is spot shoot. They need defense and off-ball play from their starting SF.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Ariza isn't the Ariza of the Lakers anymore bro. He's putting up 8 ppg on 40 percent shooting from the field, 31 percent from deep. Butler is putting up 10 ppg on 43 percent shooting from the field 39 from deep. Not to mention Ariza would have been a 3 month rental anyways. Just makes ZERO sense to pull off this trade. 3 years ago sure, not now.

The main thing Clippers fans should take from this is Donald caring about team chemistry enough to veto it. That's a big step up from the old Sterling.
Ariza doesn't get much playing time. When he gets court time, the results aren't half as bad as what you just posted. Plus he's playing for the Wizards..Caron Butler has been solid as well, but look at the players he's surrounded by.

[ralph_i_el]

Ariza has to be one of the 10 worst offensive players this season. I would have applauded this trade as a wizards fan

[imdaman99]

bad veto. ariza is a champion, he was integral when the lakers won in 09. a lot more important than artest was the following year thats for sure. butler also has a ring with the mavs... but we know how much that means when he wasnt even playing for them due to injury :lol

ariza is stinkin it up because look at the team he's on. id love him on the knicks, but instead of the arizas the knicks pick up ronnie brewers and jr smiths. put ariza on a contender... and he could be as big as he was for the lakers in their return to championship form. hes still young and athletic.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Caron>Trevor this year. People don't understand that while Caron is streaky in general nowadays he's been good the last month or more for the most part and his leadership and locker room presence is huge. He's one of our 3 main vets who keep guys in line along with CP3+Billups. Factor in that he's an unrestricted free agent this year and it's a no brainer. Sterling won the day.

BTW Butler is one of the best spot up shooters in the NBA this year, much better than Ariza I believe. A shooting chart should be available to verify this.
how does caron becoming a unrestricted free agent make this veto a no-brainer?

[Clippersfan86]

how does caron becoming a unrestricted free agent make this veto a no-brainer?

Ariza is the unrestricted free agent. Basically a 3 month rental which is pointless to break up team chemistry over. Butler isn't a terrible contract really considering he's got just 1 more year left and I think he's been a big part of the development of our young core, so we shouldn't just trade him just to trade him.

As for the poster who said Ariza is good defensively, Butler's defense the last month and a half or so has been very very solid after he talked about stepping up. This just feels like a very neutral trade with not much of a chance to retain Ariza anyways.

[b0bab0i]

bad veto. ariza is a champion, he was integral when the lakers won in 09. a lot more important than artest was the following year thats for sure. butler also has a ring with the mavs... but we know how much that means when he wasnt even playing for them due to injury :lol

ariza is stinkin it up because look at the team he's on. id love him on the knicks, but instead of the arizas the knicks pick up ronnie brewers and jr smiths. put ariza on a contender... and he could be as big as he was for the lakers in their return to championship form. hes still young and athletic.
He still helped them for half the regular season.

[Clippersfan86]

NVM Ariza has a 1 year player option. So both technically are on the books for 1.5 more seasons, Butler at 8 mill, Ariza at 7. It's a neutral trade and it's a commonly known thing in sports that you only make a trade that makes you clearly better, this one isn't clear at all.

[mjokc]

Clippers forum please, nobody gives a shit about a trade that DIDN'T even go through. There are tons of trades that didn't go through.

[imdaman99]

He still helped them for half the regular season.
oh definitely. he was good for them. but thats the thing, we can already say they won without him. but we can't say for sure that they undoubtedly still win the championship, if he doesn't get injured and plays. for instance, does marion still guard #6 on the heat as much if butler plays? the mavs beat the heat because of ball movement, im not sure if butler is good at that. does #6 remember all the times in the past he dominated the wizards in the playoffs in years past and a familiarity is there? yeah, im reaching :oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

Clippers forum please, nobody gives a shit about a trade that DIDN'T even go through. There are tons of trades that didn't go through.

We are having a good discussion in here, if you don't like the thread GTFO, nobody is making you stay :confusedshrug: .

[pegasus]

Am I the only one who thought the title said "... Veto'd by Stern". I about fell off my chair.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

NVM Ariza has a 1 year player option. So both technically are on the books for 1.5 more seasons, Butler at 8 mill, Ariza at 7. It's a neutral trade and it's a commonly known thing in sports that you only make a trade that makes you clearly better, this one isn't clear at all.
it's a toss up because imo you can find a couple players on that clippers roster who will put up similar numbers given the opportunity, as Caron.

[Whoah10115]

Caron>Trevor this year. People don't understand that while Caron is streaky in general nowadays he's been good the last month or more for the most part and his leadership and locker room presence is huge. He's one of our 3 main vets who keep guys in line along with CP3+Billups. Factor in that he's an unrestricted free agent this year and it's a no brainer. Sterling won the day.

BTW Butler is one of the best spot up shooters in the NBA this year, much better than Ariza I believe. A shooting chart should be available to verify this.



Again, he's playing on the Clippers and Ariza is on the Wizards. Before that he was on the Hornets.


Butler is a better shooter, but he stagnates the offense. He clutters up the floor. His defense is still pretty solid but it's not particularly good.


In straight basketball terms, the veto was terrible.

[Clippersfan86]

it's a toss up because imo you can find a couple players on that clippers roster who will put up similar numbers given the opportunity, as Caron.

Exactly. Toss up most likely = don't trade. Mainly for the reasons I specified. Butler is a huge part of our locker room and a leader who's constantly mentoring our guys along with Billups and CP3. When you bring in Ariza you lose those things.

[Clippersfan86]

Again, he's playing on the Clippers and Ariza is on the Wizards. Before that he was on the Hornets.


Butler is a better shooter, but he stagnates the offense. He clutters up the floor. His defense is still pretty solid but it's not particularly good.


In straight basketball terms, the veto was terrible.

No doubt Ariza would thrive a lot more here... but it's STILL a neutral trade at best. Ariza isn't going to shoot nearly 40 percent from 3 even on the Clippers and his defense while slightly better, isn't going to make the difference. Basically you're trading a little defense for better midrange shooting and 3 point shooting. Not to mention the leadership/experience trade off I mentioned. In straight basketball terms it was a great veto IMO.

[Clifton]

Am I the only one who thought the title said "... Veto'd by Stern". I about fell off my chair.
Me too.

[b0bab0i]

oh definitely. he was good for them. but thats the thing, we can already say they won without him. but we can't say for sure that they undoubtedly still win the championship, if he doesn't get injured and plays. for instance, does marion still guard #6 on the heat as much if butler plays? the mavs beat the heat because of ball movement, im not sure if butler is good at that. does #6 remember all the times in the past he dominated the wizards in the playoffs in years past and a familiarity is there? yeah, im reaching :oldlol:
Thats true, just saying he still helped them because since he played first half, Marion was more rested for the second half of season and playoffs.

But I agree completely.

[Clifton]

Basically you're trading a little defense for better midrange shooting and 3 point shooting.
You're trading away a guy who needs the ball to be effective and getting back one who doesn't. It's addition by subtraction. It'd be like the Bucks trading Monta Ellis for ... a box of Krispy Kremes. They'd improve.

Except you'd be getting back a guy who can both stay in front of Durant and put a hand in his face, which you don't currently have (unless Grant Hill is somehow in way greater shape than he has any right to be at 40).

[Thechosen1]

ariza is literally one of the worst players in the league people are ****ing idiots if they think caron butler isnt better than that brickcity player

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

No doubt Ariza would thrive a lot more here... but it's STILL a neutral trade at best. Ariza isn't going to shoot nearly 40 percent from 3 even on the Clippers and his defense while slightly better, isn't going to make the difference. Basically you're trading a little defense for better midrange shooting and 3 point shooting. Not to mention the leadership/experience trade off I mentioned. In straight basketball terms it was a great veto IMO.
Come play-off time, you'll be singing a different tune about defense.

[qrich]

Meh, would have been a neutral move, nothing to really see here.

[no pun intended]

I don't think Caron would want to return to Washington lol.

[Clippersfan86]

You're trading away a guy who needs the ball to be effective and getting back one who doesn't. It's addition by subtraction. It'd be like the Bucks trading Monta Ellis for ... a box of Krispy Kremes. They'd improve.

Except you'd be getting back a guy who can both stay in front of Durant and put a hand in his face, which you don't currently have (unless Grant Hill is somehow in way greater shape than he has any right to be at 40).

Butler is having a low key efficient year on both ends of the floor. I agree he's more ball dominant but that's not automatically a bad thing. This year he's gotten a lot better about not firing up too many shots. Most of what he gets is catch and shoot on CP3 drives which is what he SHOULD be doing. Last year I got pissed a lot of times because I felt he was "ball hogging" this year I have yet to see that.

[bagelred]

The Clippers could have overriden the veto if 2/3 of the players and 2/3 of middle management voted FOR the trade. Did they revote?



Wait....that might be something else.......

[Levity]

ive watched both players this season. and yes, caron is having a better season statistically, but ariza's been hurt on and off all season. put him on the clippers, a team with cohesion and a true leader, and he excels better than caron has. put butler on the wizards, and i bet he puts little to no effort for that mismanaged team.

my point, i think ariza would have been an amazing fit with the clippers. he has great play off experience, and would have fit with their starting line up prett well. He's a better version of matt barnes in most aspects.

[senelcoolidge]

Sterling is surprising me. I guess age, the recent deaths of his son and his friend Jerry Buss might be things that are softening up the guy. He cares about his team. Great veto. I didn't know he was so involved..I thought he would just let Sacks make the player decisions. He wants to win. It's a different Sterling.

[Clippersfan86]

Sterling is surprising me. I guess age, the recent deaths of his son and his friend Jerry Buss might be things that are softening up the guy. He cares about his team. Great veto. I didn't know he was so involved..I thought he would just let Sacks make the player decisions. He wants to win. It's a different Sterling.

:applause: . In the article I posted the other day what surprised me most is his wife has been a diehard Clippers fan since he's owned the team. She said it makes her so happy the Clippers are doing well and she's been waiting 30 years for it.

[Whoah10115]

No doubt Ariza would thrive a lot more here... but it's STILL a neutral trade at best. Ariza isn't going to shoot nearly 40 percent from 3 even on the Clippers and his defense while slightly better, isn't going to make the difference. Basically you're trading a little defense for better midrange shooting and 3 point shooting. Not to mention the leadership/experience trade off I mentioned. In straight basketball terms it was a great veto IMO.


I think it's a huge trade because Butler is an overall negative for the team. He may do well, individually, but he doesn't work for the team.


Ariza doesn't want the ball in his hands. Good. That puts the ball in Blake's hands.

[Clifton]

put butler on the wizards, and i bet he puts little to no effort for that mismanaged team.
Butler was a Wizard back in our "glory days" with Gilbert Arenas. He still has a house here. Wizards fans love the guy. On the contrary, I think he would improve locker room morale a lot, average l5ppg or so, be really good for John Wall, and be yet another step up for the Wizards this year. And the year after that they would be a playoff lock and he *might* even have an outside chance at an all-star nomination (he's a forward and the team would do well).

[Clippersfan86]

I think it's a huge trade because Butler is an overall negative for the team. He may do well, individually, but he doesn't work for the team.


Ariza doesn't want the ball in his hands. Good. That puts the ball in Blake's hands.

I agree he needs the ball but don't let that stray into it being selfish or detrimental. He's been very unselfish and professional. He's really stepped up lately. For example he's averaging 16 ppg on 49 percent the last 5 and his D is up.

[bdreason]

Even old ass Butler is better than Ariza. As long as he can stay healthy, Butler is a great shooter and has ice in his veins. Clips are better off just playing Barnes and Hill, who play the exact same role that a guy like Ariza would play.

[Clippersfan86]

Even old ass Butler is better than Ariza. As long as he can stay healthy, Butler is a great shooter and has ice in his veins. Clips are better off just playing Barnes and Hill, who play the exact same role that a guy like Ariza would play.

Yup. Barnes=Ariza but better this year... so like you said it's just too repetitive. Butler is our 2nd best long range shooter this year and is having a lowkey solid year. It's his 3rd best all around shooting year of his career and he's a far more willing passer this year.

In terms of impact according to WS/48 it's his 3rd most impactful year of his career too. In February he's put up 13 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1 apg, 1 spg on great efficiency and improved defense in 10 games. Not bad at all and he seems to be rejuvenated since returning from a few days off with injury. In the last 5 he's put up 16 ppg on about 50 percent shooting.

[notatop29pg]

cf86 - Man, dont let anyone tell you that you'd be better off with Ariza over Butler. Clipps need Butler for his shooting, something Ariza is woeful at. He's athletic and long, but cant finish a layup to save his life. Watched CP3 spoonfeed that guy in Nola just to have him lay bricks. Sterling saved the Clippers.

[StroShow4]

This is actually a good decision from Sterling. Trevor Ariza is... not good.

[Just2McFly]

butler has completely killed teams this year on occasion while ariza bums around washington, why the f*ck would he trade butler? I just don't get it. Who cares about running the floor when you already have cp3/griffin and dj? you dont need a 4x100m team to win a championship

[Whoah10115]

I agree he needs the ball but don't let that stray into it being selfish or detrimental. He's been very unselfish and professional. He's really stepped up lately. For example he's averaging 16 ppg on 49 percent the last 5 and his D is up.


I didn't say he was selfish, but Caron excels at handling the ball and helping create plays. He's just a jumpshooter on the Clippers and he's not a catch and shoot guy. He does clutter the offense.


To be able to get rid of him for an LA guy who plays better defense and is just a cog...that's good. Even if the jumpshooting isn't as good.