So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

[Smoke117]

36.2mpg 23.9ppg 6.2rpg 5.5apg 2.5spg 1.3bpg 3.1topg .532%fg

Beasted through this month.

[joeyjoejoe]

I thought he might of been done but he's been awesome, gona make heat tough to beat in the playoffs

[dunksby]

Nah, I'd rather talk about LeBron a bit more.

[ripthekik]

i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.

[DCL]

36.2mpg 23.9ppg 6.2rpg 5.5apg 2.5spg 1.3bpg 3.1topg .532%fg

Beasted through the month.

not too shabby. he's quietly killing them.

[comerb]

i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.


:facepalm

[JerryWest]

i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.
:facepalm

[Horatio33]

Quick, someone post Shaq's three peat regular season and finals numbers.

[comerb]

Quick, someone post Shaq's three peat regular season and finals numbers.

Don't worry, Shaq will tell you all about it. You won't even have to ask.

[AirFederer]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Kobe 4 The Win]

i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.

I think it's reasonable to say that Miami is stacked. They have 3 All Star starters in the prime of their careers and several solid role players. However, Lebron took a trash Cleveland team to the NBA Finals. The dude is pretty much a one man team. I don't think it's fair to diminish Lebron's ring just because he has a lot of help.

[#number6ix#]

I love the fact he's getting healthy right before the playoffs so we can make that push for da chip

[DMV2]

:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL

Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.

[KOBE143]

i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.
:applause:

LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..

[jrong]

Nah, I'd rather talk about LeBron a bit more.

Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.

After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight, but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.

[embersyc]

:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL

Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.

Wade is a superstar, the Heat are stacked. :confusedshrug:

Sometimes people forget because Wade had to sacrifice his personal game to help the team out following him playing his ass off and the Heat still losing to Dallas 2 seasons ago.

However Laker fans have a stacked team too, they just haven't been able to gel because there two best players hate each other because one is a five time champion and the other is a career whiner.

[DMV2]

I'm just pointing out their hypocrisy.

[HylianNightmare]

Getting ready for the finals

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.

After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight, but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.

lol, come on son.

Even your momma isn't going to read that "book". The perceptional box where you dwell is that of a self-important troll.

[jrong]

lol, come on son.

Even your momma isn't going to read that "book". The perceptional box where you dwell is that of a self-important troll.

Well, good thing this self-important troll gets paid to write for a living. It does make getting published easier. But, you're right about one thing-- it may not end up taking book form. A multi-media website would be the ideal medium. I had planned to launch it this offseason, but then between the elections and Sandy, I was too busy getting paid to write.

But, whatever comes out and whenever it comes out, I'll be sure to let you know, so you can come post about Kobe, mmkay?

[guy]

Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.

After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight, but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.

Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class nor has his overall career been. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.

[f0und]

what the stats dont show is how he turns up the energy level in the 4th and does the heavy lifting. when he flips that switch, the whole team's switch is flipped.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm just pointing out their hypocrisy.

Agenda driven idiots can be pointed out easily.

Some of the people on here you just can't take seriously. I was disappointed about Wade's start, but it would be foolish to ever consider the man "done", unless it was painfully obvious that he kept the stretch going on for months.

[Haymaker]

:applause:

LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..

No doubt.

[livingby3's]

YOLO. no one in history wins alone anyway, u can argue Dirk, but he's got a solid team as well. more over LeBron's not just riding his team, he's lifting them. I think LeBron made a great move. building his legacy achieving more rings, why do people keep bashing him, why do we want LeBron to waste his peak.

[jrong]

Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class nor has his overall career been. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.

Career per 36:

James: 25 ppg, 6.6 rebs, 6.3 apg, 1.6 stls, 0.8 blks, 48.9%
Wade: 24.2 ppg, 4.9 rebs, 5.9 apg, 1.7 stls, 1.0 blks, 48.8%

That's how far below LeBron's class he is. If both players played the same minutes, assuming all other variables are constant, James is good for an extra .8 ppg, 1.7 rpg (height), and .4 apg. He also provides .1 fewer spg and .2 fewer bpg, while shooting .001% better (FG% obviously is not applicable to per 36).

Now you might argue that there would be some attrition expected in Wade's rate of production if he had played the extra minutes. Fair point.

But, I'd say that's more than off-set by the fact that he has only played half as many years as the undisputed #1 option on his team and played through the equivalent of at least two full seasons while being injury-limited, wouldn't you?

And I won't even try to speculate on how different the "class system" among NBA superstars would look today if Wade hadn't been kept out of the Finals in 2005 by getting hurt while up 3-2 on Detroit or hadn't had the injury in 2007 when the Heat were in position to repeat (or perhaps three-peat if not for the misfortune in 2005?).

Thank you for illustrating why I face an obligation to publish something.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Well, good thing this self-important troll gets paid to write for a living. It does make getting published easier. But, you're right about one thing-- it may not end up taking book form. A multi-media website would be the ideal medium. I had planned to launch it this offseason, but then between the elections and Sandy, I was too busy getting paid to write.

But, whatever comes out and whenever it comes out, I'll be sure to let you know, so you can come post about Kobe, mmkay?

lol

I don't care if you get paid for writing or slinging rocks, nobody's going to read that book. Thanks for the invite though because I'm dying to read some of your copy.

The multi-media website might not be such a great idea either if it relies on NBA owned content. I doubt they would give you their express written consent. :oldlol:

[guy]

Career per 36:

James: 25 ppg, 6.6 rebs, 6.3 apg, 1.6 stls, 0.8 blks, 48.9%
Wade: 24.2 ppg, 4.9 rebs, 5.9 apg, 1.7 stls, 1.0 blks, 48.8%

That's how far below LeBron's class he is. If both players played the same minutes, assuming all other variables are constant, James is good for an extra .8 ppg, 1.7 rpg (height), and .4 apg. He also provides .1 fewer spg and .2 fewer bpg, while shooting .001% better (FG% obviously is not applicable to per 36).

Now you might point out that there would be some attrition expected in Wade's rate of production if he had played the same minutes. Fair point.

But, I'd say that's more than off-set by the fact that he has only played half as many years as the undisputed #1 option on his team and played through the equivalent of at least two full seasons while being injury-limited, wouldn't you?

Thank you for illustrating why I face an obligation to publish something.

Ummm, they don't play the same amount of minutes though? We don't care about how much they produce per minute, we care about how much they actually produce. Throw in the fact that Lebron has basically played a full season every season of his career and is arguably the most durable player ever, while Wade has had multiple seasons where he's missed a significant amount of games and even that doesn't tell the whole story of his durability because he's played a ton of games handicapped with injuries. Lebron's been more consistent throughout his career, which is what per 36 stats usually hide. I would say out of their 10 seasons in the league, they've been in the same class for 4 of those seasons, which are 05, 06, 09, and 11. 07 is debateable depending on how much you weigh Wade's injury. In 08, 10, 12, 13, Lebron was clearly playing at a higher class then Wade, while Wade has never separated himself from Lebron like that. Don't get me wrong, Wade is absolutely an all-time great player and clearly one of the greatest players ever. But for his career, he's basically a much smaller, significantly less durable, with lesser passing skills version of Lebron. I wouldn't call that being in the same class.

[D-Wade316]

I'll say 5(including '04).

04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron

[Magic 32]

:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL

Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.

That was actually Heat and Lebron fans.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'll say 5(including '04).

04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron


I'd give 09 to wade. He was better statistically in almost every category

[Whoah10115]

Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class nor has his overall career been. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.



That's really not true...I think Wade is remarkably under-appreciated and he was right there with LeBron and much of the time ahead of him, especially in career...up until 2011 especially.



I'll say 5(including '04).

04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron



Are you including playoffs or just the regular season?

[jrong]

Ummm, they don't play the same amount of minutes though? We don't care about how much they produce per minute, we care about how much they actually produce. Throw in the fact that Lebron has basically played a full season every season of his career and is arguably the most durable player ever, while Wade has had multiple seasons where he's missed a significant amount of games and even that doesn't tell the whole story of his durability because he's played a ton of games handicapped with injuries. Lebron's been more consistent throughout his career, which is what per 36 stats usually hide. I would say out of their 10 seasons in the league, they've been in the same class for 4 of those seasons, which are 05, 06, 09, and 11. 07 is debateable depending on how much you weigh Wade's injury. In 08, 10, 12, 13, Lebron was clearly playing at a higher class then Wade, while Wade has never separated himself from Lebron like that. Don't get me wrong, Wade is absolutely an all-time great player and clearly one of the greatest players ever. But for his career, he's basically a much smaller, significantly less durable, with lesser passing skills version of Lebron. I wouldn't call that being in the same class.

Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.

And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.

But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.

LEBRON JAMES hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!

LEBRON JAMES in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!

LEBRON JAMES in his third year, shoots 62% for the series against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!

LEBRON JAMES drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!


Do you get it now?

[Jolokia]

Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.

And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.

But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.

LEBRON JAMES hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!

LEBRON JAMES in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!

LEBRON JAMES in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!

LEBRON JAMES drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!


Do you get it now?
This was a great read. :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.

And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.

But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.

LEBRON JAMES hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!


LEBRON JAMES hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!

LEBRON JAMES in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!

LEBRON JAMES in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!

LEBRON JAMES drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!


Do you get it now?

there's a lot of truth to this.

If Lebron in his 3rd year in the League would have dominated the finals like Wade did we WOULD NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT

[guy]

Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.

And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.

But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.

LEBRON JAMES hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!

LEBRON JAMES in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!

LEBRON JAMES in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!

LEBRON JAMES drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!


Do you get it now?

You just brought up their first 3 seasons. If we were just talking about those 3 seasons, I'd absolutely agree with you. After 06, it was very debateable who was better between the 2 and who was going to have the better career. But in the 7 seasons since then, Lebron has been clearly in a different class for 4.5 of those seasons (second half of 07, 08, 10, 12, 13). We are talking about almost half their careers one has been significantly better then the other, while in the other seasons they've been at the same level. I would say overall that means one has been at another level. And the fact that part of the reason for that has been Wade has been injured or whatever doesn't change that. And I'm not underselling Wade's passing, but he's still not comparable to Lebron in that regard.

[D-Wade316]

That's really not true...I think Wade is remarkably under-appreciated and he was right there with LeBron and much of the time ahead of him, especially in career...up until 2011 especially.






Are you including playoffs or just the regular season?
Including playoffs.

[Whoah10115]

Including playoffs.



Shame Wade got hurt in 2007...he was playing ridiculous. I'd give it to him for 2009 too...LeBron was great for most of the playoffs but Wade did everything he could to carry that team.

[guy]

there's a lot of truth to this.

If Lebron in his 3rd year in the League would have dominated the finals like Wade did we WOULD NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT

We would never hear the end of it if he didn't continue to have the consistently high level career he's had.

Put it like this, if it were Wade instead of Lebron that was hyped up from the beginning as potentially a top 3-5 player of all-time, after his first 3 seasons, alot of people would agree that he was still on that path. But after that, most would agree that he's not and eventually would agree that he has no shot of it anymore. If simultaneously, Lebron was the one that came out of nowhere like Wade did, and did the stuff that he did winning 3 MVPs, 1 championship, out of this world statistics, etc. then he'd probably eventually get the same coverage he's been getting by his 3rd or 4th season.

Point being, the media doesn't just cover Lebron significantly more then Wade because of some narrative they are trying to produce. They cover him more cause he's in a different class.

[jrong]

You just brought up their first 3 seasons. If we were just talking about those 3 seasons, I'd absolutely agree with you. After 06, it was very debateable who was better between the 2 and who was going to have the better career. But in the 7 seasons since then, Lebron has been clearly in a different class for 4.5 of those seasons (second half of 07, 08, 10, 12, 13). We are talking about almost half their careers one has been significantly better then the other, while in the other seasons they've been at the same level. I would say overall that means one has been at another level. And the fact that part of the reason for that has been Wade has been injured or whatever doesn't change that. And I'm not underselling Wade's passing, but he's still not comparable to Lebron in that regard.

And how different would mass perception of Wade be today if he had gotten the kind of acclaim LeBron would have gotten for doing what he did in those first three years?

My central thesis or one of them, if and when I ever publish something on the subject, is that Wade suffers from what I term "lagging perception." In other words, because the media and most fans (as a result of the media) have never realized how good he was, they still don't get it.

If LeBron (or Melo) had Wade's resume from 2004 - 2006, they would have been deified, enshrined. But, Wade wasn't supposed to be that guy. And by the time he had deposed Melo from the #2 spot out of the class of 2003, he would still become the forgotten man in the Kobe/Bron comparisons for best player in the league.

Personally, though, I could care less about comparisons to LeBron/Kobe, as long as it is acknowledged that Wade is/was on that general level. If people want to then rank the other two above him-- well, I do too.

What I want to see, when it's all said and done, is Dwyane Wade widely acknowledged as:

1. 3rd best SG ever
2. top 15 or 20 player all-time

I would have a lot more confidence that "they" will eventually realize that he really IS that good if they had EVER realized how good he is.

[DaSeba5]

I remember the old days when I used to argue for Wade being right there with LeBron and Kobe, and where they were all the top 3 players in the league. Wade has always seemed to be an under the radar guy, but it's probably because Miami used to be an indifferent team that nobody really talked about. Wade didn't have the hype of LeBron, or the credit of being on an elite franchise like the Lakers.

[LikeABosh]

Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.

And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.

But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.

LEBRON JAMES hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!

LEBRON JAMES as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!

LEBRON JAMES in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!

LEBRON JAMES in his third year, shoots 62% for the series against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!

LEBRON JAMES drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!


Do you get it now?
Stop it. Shaq was still great, especially in his first year in Miami. He was like 2nd in MVP voting .

[jlip]

It great to see Wade playing like this. I've said many times that with the way the Heat are constructed, they need both he and Lebron to dominate in order to be ultimately successful in the playoffs, especially considering their deficiences up front.

[Whoah10115]

I remember the old days when I used to argue for Wade being right there with LeBron and Kobe, and where they were all the top 3 players in the league. Wade has always seemed to be an under the radar guy, but it's probably because Miami used to be an indifferent team that nobody really talked about. Wade didn't have the hype of LeBron, or the credit of being on an elite franchise like the Lakers.



He didn't have the hype, so it was inconsistent. We saw him grow. Then Shaq showed up in Miami and overshadowed him. Then he was the MVP (over Nash) until he got hurt in 2007. Missed half of that season and the playoffs and missed half of the next year and didn't make the playoffs. In that time, James got to the Finals with that ridiculous run against the Pistons, Kobe was going Kobe, and people forgot about Wade.


When people were arguing in 2009 about who should be MVP, I couldn't hear the end of LeBron getting over 100 steals and almost 100 blocks, averaging over 1 of each a game for the season (1.7SPG and 1.1BPG). Wade played two fewer games and had over 150 steals and over 100 blocks, averaging 2.2SPG and 1.3BPG. He became the only guard other than Jordan (I think) to have over 150 steals and 100 blocks, averaging over 2 steals and over 1 block. So they were giving LeBron credit for doing something that Wade did better.


Yes, Wade is overlooked.

[DaSeba5]

He didn't have the hype, so it was inconsistent. We saw him grow. Then Shaq showed up in Miami and overshadowed him. Then he was the MVP (over Nash) until he got hurt in 2007. Missed half of that season and the playoffs and missed half of the next year and didn't make the playoffs. In that time, James got to the Finals with that ridiculous run against the Pistons, Kobe was going Kobe, and people forgot about Wade.


When people were arguing in 2009 about who should be MVP, I couldn't hear the end of LeBron getting over 100 steals and almost 100 blocks, averaging over 1 of each a game for the season (1.7SPG and 1.1BPG). Wade played two fewer games and had over 150 steals and over 100 blocks, averaging 2.2SPG and 1.3BPG. He became the only guard other than Jordan (I think) to have over 150 steals and 100 blocks, averaging over 2 steals and over 1 block. So they were giving LeBron credit for doing something that Wade did better.


Yes, Wade is overlooked.

Agreed with everything you said, and repped.

[Horde of Temujin]

Hes been amazing. He is a great player but I still can't stand him.

[jrong]

Stop it. Shaq was still great, especially in his first year in Miami. He was like 2nd in MVP voting .

Regular season. But, in March, Shaq sustained a deep thigh bruise (after which he was never the same player, btw). By Shaq's own estimate, he was at "30 percent" during the post-season.

He still managed a respectable 18/9 overall. But, 2nd year Wade averaged 27/6/6.

Shaq sat out half the Wizards series. Wade still led the Heat to a sweep on 31/8/7.

Wade then, after struggling in a Game 1 loss, went on to score 40, 36, and 28 in Games 2,3, and 4 against the Big Ben-anchored Pistons. He was hurt in a Game 5 blowout Heat win, missed Game 6, and scored 20 while wrapped up like a mummy in a Game 7 loss by 2 pts.

This was all before, in the 1st round, he became only the 5th player (at the time) in NBA history to average 25/8/6/50% in a series, a sweep of the Nets.


So, I'm sorry, what were you saying again?

[guy]

And how different would mass perception of Wade be today if he had gotten the kind of acclaim LeBron would have gotten for doing what he did in those first three years?

My central thesis or one of them, if and when I ever publish something on the subject, is that Wade suffers from what I term "lagging perception." In other words, because the media and most fans (as a result of the media) have never realized how good he was, they still don't get it.

If LeBron (or Melo) had Wade's resume from 2004 - 2006, they would have been deified, enshrined. But, Wade wasn't supposed to be that guy. And by the time he had deposed Melo from the #2 spot out of the class of 2003, he would still become the forgotten man in the Kobe/Bron comparisons for best player in the league.

Personally, though, I could care less about comparisons to LeBron/Kobe, as long as it is acknowledged that Wade is/was on that general level. If people want to then rank the other two above him-- well, I do too.

What I want to see, when it's all said and done, is Dwyane Wade widely acknowledged as:

1. 3rd best SG ever
2. top 15 or 20 player all-time

I would have a lot more confidence that "they" will eventually realize that he really IS that good if they had EVER realized how good he is.

If Lebron did what Wade did in his first 3 seasons, but then followed up with what Wade has done in the next 7 seasons, I really don't think he'd get much much more acclaim then Wade has gotten, and would clearly be considered a disappointment. On the other hand, if Wade did exactly what Lebron has done the last 10 years, he might not be as hyped cause he wasn't that hyped from the beginning, but he'd still be widely regarded as the best player in the league, at the very least a top 2 player of the last 10 years along with Kobe, and potentially a top 5 player of all-time. And if Wade did what he did in his first 3 seasons, and then followed it up with what Lebron did in the next 7 seasons i.e. 2x champ, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP, multiple 60 win seasons, no durability issues, consistently playing at an elite level all year round, etc., he'd get just as much if not more hype then Lebron right now.

He's not in the same class. If your problem is that he doesn't get enough credit and gets overshadowed by Lebron/Kobe, well what do you expect? The media isn't going to cover everyone and they will obviously cover those that are better and in a different class then someone.

By the way, 06 and 09 were the 2 seasons where all 3 were arguably the 3 best players in the league and playing at a similar level. I vividly remember Wade getting a ton of coverage those years, maybe not as much but right on par with Lebron and Kobe.

[Jolokia]

Wade has always been flying under the radar even when he got a triple-dub knocking off top ranked Kentucky to get into the final four. Things will never change. The Heat drafted the right guy is all I'm saying. 2x champ

[jrong]

If Lebron did what Wade did in his first 3 seasons, but then followed up with what Wade has done in the next 7 seasons, I really don't think he'd get much much more acclaim then Wade has gotten. On the other hand, if Wade did exactly what Lebron has done the last 10 years, he might not be as hyped cause he wasn't that hyped from the beginning, but he'd still be widely regarded as the best player in the league, at the very least a top 2 player of the last 10 years along with Kobe, and potentially a top 5 player of all-time. And if Wade did what he did in his first 3 seasons, and then followed it up with what Lebron did in the next 7 seasons i.e. 2x champ, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP, multiple 60 win seasons, no durability issues, consistently playing at an elite level all year round, etc., he'd get just as much if not more hype then Lebron right now.

He's not in the same class. If your problem is that he doesn't get enough credit and gets overshadowed by Lebron/Kobe, well what do you expect? The media isn't going to cover everyone and they will obviously cover those that are better and in a different class then someone.

By the way, 06 and 09 were the 2 seasons where all 3 were arguably the 3 best players in the league and playing at a similar level. I vividly remember Wade getting a ton of coverage those years, maybe not as much but right on par with Lebron and Kobe.

They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act as if he doesn't exist.

Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and, uh, Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.

After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.

And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it.)

In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-level-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?

So what was this about Wade's last seven years again? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history.

[305Baller]

They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act if he doesn't exist.

Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.

After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.

And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it).

In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?

So what was this about Wade's last seven years? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history. Period.

:facepalm

[jrong]

:facepalm

So who is then? Derek Jeter? Who else fits the profile of a genuine supernova but is popularly viewed as a mere, lesser nova?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade is definitely looking better than he did last year. By the way, over his last 10 games, he's averaged 25/6/6 on 55% with 2.6 spg and 1.2 bpg.


i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.

:roll: If Lebron keeps playing the way he is now, or plays like he did last year, there's no way to discredit him.


Don't worry, Shaq will tell you all about it. You won't even have to ask.

:oldlol: He should ask Lebron where he got the "Check My Stats" shirt. It'd be very useful for Shaq. Or maybe take out a paid advertisement where Shaq informs people of his championships and numbers.


:applause:

LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..

Not even close.

[jrong]

Point being, the media doesn't just cover Lebron significantly more then Wade because of some narrative they are trying to produce. They cover him more cause he's in a different class.

No, they cover him the way they do because of ratings, hits, etc. And a senior ESPN writer admitted this to me.

And why does LeBron have such a high Q-rating? Could it be because he was on the cover of S.I. in 10th grade? And ESPN broadcast his entire senior season on national TV? And his drafting was the most hyped ever?

Wade came in under the radar. He didn't generate ratings then, and so he again didn't draw attention. Thus he trailed further in star perception, and so the cycle continued and has continued to this day, even though, there were a lot of years when his play was on par with anyone's.

[LikeABosh]

Regular season. But, in March, Shaq sustained a deep thigh bruise (after which he was never the same player, btw). By Shaq's own estimate, he was at "30 percent" during the post-season.

He still managed a respectable 18/9 overall. But, 2nd year Wade averaged 27/6/6.

Shaq sat out half the Wizards series. Wade still led the Heat to a sweep on 31/8/7.

Wade then, after struggling in a Game 1 loss, went on to score 40, 36, and 28 in Games 2,3, and 4 against the Big Ben-anchored Pistons. He was hurt in a Game 5 blowout Heat win, missed Game 6, and scored 20 while wrapped up like a mummy in a Game 7 loss by 2 pts.

This was all before, in the 1st round, he became only the 5th player (at the time) in NBA history to average 25/8/6/50% in a series, a sweep of the Nets.


So, I'm sorry, what were you saying again?
I agree with you. Wade is my boy. I was just saying that Shaq was still a very good player and that poster was trying to make him sound like some scrub

[f0und]

in his second year, in the first round of the playoffs he joined an elite club(jordan, bird, magic, wilt) when he put up 30+ppg, +50%fg 7 reb, 7 assts in a playoff series. and swept the wizards.

in the second round, he did it again, but better. 30+ppg, +50%fg 8 reb, 8 assts. and swept the nets.

in the ECF, against the exact same pistons team with the all time great defense that made kobe look like the punk in the previous finals, he easily dismantled them before succumbing to injury. had it not been for the injury, he most likely wouldve went on to the finals and mightve won the ship that year.

in his third year in the ECF, against that same pistons team, he scored 30+ppg on 69%fg over the first 4 games, doing whatever he wanted. only kareem has had a better 4 game stretch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y

and in the finals, he put up one of the best, if not the best finals performance in history, if you take into consideration the circumstances.

by the end of his third year, he had scored more playoff points than any player in the history of the NBA had at the end of their third year.

[guy]

They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act as if he doesn't exist.

And Lebron and Kobe have basically done something every single season that can't be ignored.



Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and, uh, Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.

Players aren't covered based on "ifs".




After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.

Wade got plenty of recognition for 09. Maybe he didn't get as much as Kobe did for 06 and 07, but he still got plenty and anyway, I wouldn't say he deserved as much recognition. What Kobe was doing that season scoring wise with all his 80+, 60+, 50+ points games was historic.

In 2010, it seemed like Wade just coasted throughout the season. He was still great, but his numbers dropped across the board, and they were clearly worse then Lebron's and at best equal to Kobe's but they led their teams to much better records.



And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it.)

I won't disagree with him having a case for 2011, in fact I probably would give it to him. But he doesn't ALWAYS have a case. He usually doesn't. He's had 3 seasons at most where he had a case, and I would say he was only the best in 2011.



In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-level-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?

How often are 22/5/5 players that talked about, especially when there teammate is putting up 27/8/7 on even better efficiency?



So what was this about Wade's last seven years again? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history.

I'm not denigrating his 7 seasons. He just isn't at the same level as Lebron.

[chazzy]

On the flipside of Wade not getting enough credit, he also gets a pass for negative things. He just gets ignored altogether relative to Lebron/Kobe

[jrong]

And Lebron and Kobe have basically done something every single season that can't be ignored

My overall point is that, whenever healthy, Wade is that level of player. He has that ability. I have no problem with him being placed on third on that tier (for reasons among which is durability), but healthy Wade is on that tier.

If you disagree, then we'll have to agree that we disagree.

[guy]

No, they cover him the way they do because of ratings, hits, etc. And a senior ESPN writer admitted this to me.

And why does LeBron have such a high Q-rating? Could it be because he was on the cover of S.I. in 10th grade? And ESPN broadcast his entire senior season on national TV? And his drafting was the most hyped ever?

Wade came in under the radar. He didn't generate ratings then, and so he again didn't draw attention. Thus he trailed further in star perception, and so the cycle continued and has continued to this day, even though, there were a lot of years when his play was on par with anyone's.

I really don't think you've gotten my point at all. The point is Lebron continues to get more ratings, hits, etc because he's a greater player.

Look at this scenario. Lets say it Wade that was ridiculously hyped up before his rookie year while Lebron flew under the radar, but then lets say they had the exact same careers they had. Who do you think would've produced more ratings? Until the middle of 07, probably Wade, but since then it would've still been Lebron because of his level of play and his consistency which has resulted in a higher level of play overall.



My overall point is that, whenever healthy, Wade is that level of player. He has that ability. I have no problem with him being placed on third on that tier (for reasons among which is durability), but healthy Wade is on that tier.

If you disagree, then we'll have to agree that we disagree.

Sure whenever he's healthy or not taking a huge step back (not sure which one its been since 2011), I'd definitely agree he's on their level. But if you have to qualify something like that with "whenever healthy", then overall he's not in that tier. Its not really fair to players that are healthy and are playing at that level much more of the time.

[EnoughSaid]

I think it's possible that Wade can even win a FMVP this year. If he continues this play and then steps up in the Playoffs like always, he'll be in good shape. :rockon:

[Jolokia]

I think it's possible that Wade can even win a FMVP this year. If he continues this play and then steps up in the Playoffs like always, he'll be in good shape. :rockon:
Yeah I could definitely see WOW do that. :lol

[Kingwillball]

I think it's possible that Wade can even win a FMVP this year. If he continues this play and then steps up in the Playoffs like always, he'll be in good shape. :rockon:


He would have to Significantly outplay Lebron for that to Happen and for that to Happen Heat probably wouldnt win the Finals(cause he was Choking) Unless Wade had a Finals of the Ages like 35,10,8 but I think if Heat win championship 75% chance Lebron wins FMVP.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I think it's possible that Wade can even win a FMVP this year. If he continues this play and then steps up in the Playoffs like always, he'll be in good shape. :rockon:


He'd have to go 06 finals version and Lebron go 11 finals version for that to happen.

Even if they play equally well throughout the playoffs, Bron will get the nod for FMVP

[Jolokia]

He'd have to go 06 finals version and Lebron go 11 finals version for that to happen.

Even if they play equally well throughout the playoffs, Bron will get the nod for FMVP
Let's say Lebron gets 26/8/7/2/1 on 55/40/80
and Wade gets 26/6/6/2/1.5 on 52/35/80

Wade knocks down 2 game winners (both assisted by Lebron) in game 1 to take the lead and game 6 to win the series.

Based on that, who gets FMVP?

[TheNaturalWR]

He would have to Significantly outplay Lebron for that to Happen and for that to Happen Heat probably wouldnt win the Finals(cause he was Choking) Unless Wade had a Finals of the Ages like 35,10,8 but I think if Heat win championship 75% chance Lebron wins FMVP.

English would be nice.

[NumberSix]

:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL

Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.
Dude, I could make a Wade>Kobe thread right now, and the same exact Kobe'tards would flood it with "Wade is done", "Wade is garbage", "he's riding LeBron's coattails", etc.

Their tendency to cherrypick anything to support their current agenda isn't a revelation.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dude has averaged 25/6/6 shooting 55% his last 9-10 games. Now, I wouldn't say he's had a better season than Kobe, but for the last few months, Wade's played just as well.

[NumberSix]

Dude has averaged 25/6/6 shooting 55% his last 9-10 games. Now, I wouldn't say he's had a better season than Kobe, but for the last few months, Wade's played just as well.
http://www.troll.me/images/indiana-jones/really-really-dude.jpg

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

...

He hasn't :confusedshrug:

[TheNaturalWR]

He hasn't :confusedshrug:

Yeah I don't know why he felt the need to post that pic...

[G-train]

I guarantee if Wade had Kobe's role on the Lakers, he would have bigger numbers and a bigger impact.

[D-Wade316]

Shame Wade got hurt in 2007...he was playing ridiculous. I'd give it to him for 2009 too...LeBron was great for most of the playoffs but Wade did everything he could to carry that team.
2007 was supposed to be his MVP year. :cry: :mad: