Still not ready to fire Grunwald?

[franchize]

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/8995289/rasheed-wallace-new-york-knicks-needs-foot-surgery-miss-approximately-eight-weeks

When your team is anxiously and desperately waiting for a 36 year old, who hasn't played in 2 years, to return from injury, you haven't done your job as a GM. There's no doubt in my mind that the Knicks knew Sheed would be out. I think they were prolonging the inevitable. The knew they'd screwed up and they knew Grunwald would like like an idiot because of it. We ripped Isaiah when he made dumb moves and couldn't wait to get him out of town. All I ask is that you be fair lol This guy needs to go

[Rameek]

I just made a post about this. I strongly believe the Knicks knew he was going to need surgery and I'm suppose to believe adding KMart was suppose to be the answer? BS. Then he should have added another Center.

Do I think he should be fired? His theory was add veterans to be easily coached. Just because he added a bunch of Krust. Only Camby and Kidd got 3 year deals all others have 1 year deals. Novak got a 4 year deal? Wow I didnt remember that.

I dont think he WILL be fired but I dont have confidence in him to maximize this roster for the next 2 years of Melo, Stat, Chandler deal. He will have the room to make moves though.

[franchize]

I just made a post about this. I strongly believe the Knicks knew he was going to need surgery and I'm suppose to believe adding KMart was suppose to be the answer? BS. Then he should have added another Center.

Do I think he should be fired? His theory was add veterans to be easily coached. Just because he added a bunch of Krust. Only Camby and Kidd got 3 year deals all others have 1 year deals. Novak got a 4 year deal? Wow I didnt remember that.

I dont think he WILL be fired but I dont have confidence in him to maximize this roster for the next 2 years of Melo, Stat, Chandler deal. He will have the room to make moves though.
I do to. No doubt in my mind. Remember, the reports were coming out days later that most people thought he'd be done for the season. You're just finding out NOW that he needs surgery? Puhlease! I think he and the Knicks front office put that buzz out there that he may be ready to go soon because he knew how bad it was beginning to look.

[Rameek]

I do to. No doubt in my mind. Remember, the reports were coming out days later that most people thought he'd be done for the season. You're just finding out NOW that he needs surgery? Puhlease! I think he and the Knicks front office put that buzz out there that he may be ready to go soon because he knew how bad it was beginning to look.
I hope someone can explain to me the purpose of the rouge though? I cant even understand the logic of them putting the team at a disadvantage for so freaking long. I cant think of any benefits contractually or roster wise.

[knickscity]

Bring back isiah...basically the same squad, just different names.

[Rameek]

Bring back isiah...basically the same squad, just different names.
IT had some talented squads but he was in love with making moves and not finding a good coach.

[knickscity]

IT had some talented squads but he was in love with making moves and not finding a good coach.
sounds familiar at the moment.

I give them this season though, but if they can't get out the first round, they do need to dissmantle the entire roster.

That would mean they lost to a team that didn't even have a top 10 player for christ sakes.

[franchize]

IT had some talented squads but he was in love with making moves and not finding a good coach.
FACTS!!!

Bottom line is, all we had to do is get some DECENT players. Grunwald walked into a situation where he already had a star player handpicked by the owner. There are 5 teams with higher salaries than us. It isn't impossible.

[Patrick Chewing]

Grunwald has done a decent job thus far and we currently are second in the EAST as I type this. This will be a very different looking Knicks team next year I can tell you that. But so far, this experiment has worked.

[niko]

You people are talking about Isiah? What the **** is wrong with you? Those teams were completely mismatched messes. This team has more talent, it fits better, and it's not all bad character guys. Isiah's most talented team had Randolph and Crawford, these are not building block guys and they were just as highly paid as the Knicks now.

The Knicks have another year with this team, and then room to reload again. The only long contracts are novak, kidd & camby and they aren't big.

I know people bitch almost reflexively but wanting to fire the GM and talking about Isiah? You're not Knick fans, you are haters pretending to be fans because if you are longing for Isiah you just want to bitch.

The playoffs have not started yet, you can't make broad sweeping changes five times a year.

[franchize]

Niko...you might want to re-read what people posted before you go on your little rant. Nobody is advocating Isaiah.We're saying that he brought in more talent than Grunwald did. Yet somehow, Grunwald is exempt from criticism yet they couldn't wait to get rid of Thomas. Nobody wants Zeke back. Relax.And if you want to have a "who's more of a Knicks fan" debate...bring it on. Trust me. You will not win.

And let's cut the crap about our record. Our record is what it is mainly because of Carmelo Anthony's play this year...and Grunwald had NOTHING to do with that. Melo isn't the ONLY reason we have a good record but he is the biggest reason. If you remember, he also wasn't too keen on bringing in JR Smith, who has been huge for us. Those were Dolan moves. Now far be it from me to support Dolan. I'm no fan of his. But call it like it is. Carmelo Anthony is a Knick because of him.

[Rameek]

Niko you are cool dude but you totally misread this thread (R.I.F is needed). You should go back and digest what was being said.

Patrick Chewing welcome back how has Grunwald done a decent job? Who did Gunwald bring in that made you think he did a decent job. Based on 18-5 you really thought Brewer, Kidd, Novak, JR Smith was that good with no Shump, Stat, Camby.

[knickscity]

All i care for is the win, for all the so called "talent" Isiah brought in... look at what he gave up.

Noah, Aldridge, Nene, Ariza, just to name a few.

Best team the Knicks have had in a decade courtesy of Glen Grunwald, cap expert turned GM.

All i want is for the team to play the way they should.

[franchize]

All i care for is the win, for all the so called "talent" Isiah brought in... look at what he gave up.

Noah, Aldridge, Nene, Ariza, just to name a few.

Best team the Knicks have had in a decade courtesy of Glen Grunwald, cap expert turned GM.

All i want is for the team to play the way they should.
How can you say "courtesy to Grunwald" when the best players aren't guys he brought in? Other than Chandler and Felton, anyone of significance was Dolan's doing.

[knickscity]

How can you say "courtesy to Grunwald" when the best players aren't guys he brought in? Other than Chandler and Felton, anyone of significance was Dolan's doing.
cap expert turned GM...it's in the post.

[Rameek]

All i care for is the win, for all the so called "talent" Isiah brought in... look at what he gave up.

Noah, Aldridge, Nene, Ariza, just to name a few.

Best team the Knicks have had in a decade courtesy of Glen Grunwald, cap expert turned GM.

All i want is for the team to play the way they should.
Listen lets put this IT shat to bed, I dont care about IT. I never said I wanted him back and I didnt bring him up you did. My point being is he had some talented teams thats it, not winners, not championship players etc... I said also he loved to make moves just to make moves and he didnt try to find a quality coach.

The best team in a decade? Dolan/Walsh/Grunwald has done a little bit better. the previous regimes were less than mediocre and this current regime mediocre. But its all in context. Lin's stretch last year got the Knicks into playoff contention from something like 8-15 (fluke), this year role players got the Knicks to 18-5 into the playoff contention (fluke). This regime has been saved by 2 miracles.

[knickscity]

Listen lets put this IT shat to bed, I dont care about IT. I never said I wanted him back and I didnt bring him up you did. My point being is he had some talented teams thats it, not winners, not championship players etc... I said also he loved to make moves just to make moves and he didnt try to find a quality coach.

The best team in a decade? Dolan/Walsh/Grunwald has done a little bit better. the previous regimes were less than mediocre and this current regime mediocre. But its all in context. Lin's stretch last year got the Knicks into playoff contention from something like 8-15 (fluke), this year role players got the Knicks to 18-5 into the playoff contention (fluke). This regime has been saved by 2 miracles.
Whats the excitement for?

I've made no remarks to state this team is anything but an above average 47 win team.

But it's better than what we've seen in over a decade from a talent standpoint and record.

Persionally i do think they've overahcieved and mainly because inefficiency rarely wins.

[niko]

Saying Isiah brought in more talent is stupid. I did read, in no way should Isiah be lauded for bringing in more talent. He brought in almost universally flawed players and players who did not fit with other players. If Grunwald's overriding principle was to bring in simply talent with no rhyme or reason of how it fit then he could upgrade the talent and win less games. just like Isiah did. isiah got Zach Randolph when the Knicks had literally nowhere to play him. That is a "talent" upgrade. And all his talent had shit attitudes. We have more role players filling their roles than probably in all the time Isiah was here combined. We had Marbury, let's get Francis. Crawford too. We had Van Horn filling his role nicely, shipped him out for Tim Thomas. Again, better talent, stupid trade. Isiah also never looked at cap implications.

Is this a title winning team? No, but at least there is a cohesive thought process in what is being done. Don't fire anyone, keep the course and see what happens. If you constantly recycle in new people you never go anywhere or accomplish anything.

Just wait and have some patience. Knick fans look for reasons to be unhappy.

[Rameek]

Is this a title winning team? No, but at least there is a cohesive thought process in what is being done. Don't fire anyone, keep the course and see what happens. If you constantly recycle in new people you never go anywhere or accomplish anything.

Just wait and have some patience. Knick fans look for reasons to be unhappy.
Just quoting myself from the other thread. I want this team to live up the hype and prove me wrong. Show me that its an ECF type team even in a weak East

Well its March and now I can start to get on this team and coach. If the coach is worth his salt this team should show what this team is the identity should have started establishing itself.

If Stat and Melo are worth anything this team in conjunction with Woody can show the fans something.

IMHO the only players that have shown me anything worth keeping is Stat, Melo, Felton, JR, Chandler but I know the fact is the roster needs a MAJOR upgrade (addition by subtraction works too) but Grummy (Grunwald hasnt impressed me) or a better coach. So the players under multi year deals are not going anywhere most likely ( I can wish Camby and Kidd retires), Grummy most likely isnt going anywhere, Woody most likely isnt going anywhere.

My expectations are different than other fans. I know this team is a 42-44 win team. So for me to say they have to win a 1st round series or go to the ECF I look ridiculous and crazy. I havent seen anything to change that..

I just want to see progress. I just want to see the next 2 years will be better I want hope.

[franchize]

Saying Isiah brought in more talent is stupid. I did read, in no way should Isiah be lauded for bringing in more talent. He brought in almost universally flawed players and players who did not fit with other players. If Grunwald's overriding principle was to bring in simply talent with no rhyme or reason of how it fit then he could upgrade the talent and win less games. just like Isiah did. isiah got Zach Randolph when the Knicks had literally nowhere to play him. That is a "talent" upgrade. And all his talent had shit attitudes. We have more role players filling their roles than probably in all the time Isiah was here combined. We had Marbury, let's get Francis. Crawford too. We had Van Horn filling his role nicely, shipped him out for Tim Thomas. Again, better talent, stupid trade. Isiah also never looked at cap implications.

Is this a title winning team? No, but at least there is a cohesive thought process in what is being done. Don't fire anyone, keep the course and see what happens. If you constantly recycle in new people you never go anywhere or accomplish anything.

Just wait and have some patience. Knick fans look for reasons to be unhappy.

Your second sentence proves you misread what everyone is saying. He isn't being "lauded" for anything. What everyone is saying is, he brought in a bunch of talent. None of it was cohesive. As Rameek said, he was just getting guys for the sake of getting guys. Nobody fit. All we are saying is, talent wise, Grunwald hasn't put this team together well at all. Thomas failed miserably, but it wasn't for lack of effort. Grunwald's moves have just been lazy/ For instance, I believe today is the last day to waive someone. What are we keeping Rasheed Wallace for?

[Rameek]

Your second sentence proves you misread what everyone is saying. He isn't being "lauded" for anything. What everyone is saying is, he brought in a bunch of talent. None of it was cohesive. As Rameek said, he was just getting guys for the sake of getting guys. Nobody fit. All we are saying is, talent wise, Grunwald hasn't put this team together well at all. Thomas failed miserably, but it wasn't for lack of effort. Grunwald's moves have just been lazy/ For instance, I believe today is the last day to waive someone. What are we keeping Rasheed Wallace for?
You didnt hear about this...


THEY WANT HIM READY FOR HE PLAYOFFS:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[franchize]

You didnt hear about this...


THEY WANT HIM READY FOR HE PLAYOFFS:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
And he won't even be ready for the 1st round. It's the 2nd round theyre saying smh. For a team that hasnt been out the 1st round in a decade, how do they get the audacity to say something like that?

[franchize]

I said Jared Jeffries sucks...he went to Portland and proved me right.
I said Jason Kidd sucks...he quit basketball after proving me right
I said Josh Harrelson sucks....he got traded and proved me right.
Next stop Pablo Prigioni

One other common denominator in all this. Knickscity was all for all of these moves :oldlol:

STOP LIKING BUMS!!!

[Clutch]

I'm with franchize. I'm all for re-signing Prigioni but for vet minimum.
Mini-MLE is basically our only asset (considering Tyson isn't going anywhere) so we should spend it wisely.

And Felton was much more important than him. He was a beast against Boston in the 1st round and had a solid regular season too.

[Blue&Orange]

This thread is a disaster.

They guy inherit a team with $50 millions going to 3 players. :no:


1. He hires Woodson that goes on a 16-8 and it's the winniest Knicks coach in history.
2. He drafts Shumpert.
3. He trades for Chandler, making Knicks immediately better.
4. He brought Lin, we all know how that turned out, so well that he bolted.
5. he consistently brought cheap ass players that contributed above expected, Novak, Copeland, Prigi, etc...
6. He signs Jr and Felton to peanuts contracts


7. Brings a former n

[franchize]

Clutch this is all I'm saying lol If we bring back Prigioni for the minimum. I'm completely fine with it. Who are we bidding against though? Like I said before, we're literally at an auction by ourselves raising the paddle.

And Blue vs Orange...I'd hardly consider Novak a success considering Glen Grunwald himself was quoted this week as saying the signing was a mistake lol How was Novak cheap? We paid him 4 million dollars. And need I remind you HOW we obtained Tyson Chandler? Even if you like him (which I don't), we wasted our amnesty on a player right after we picked up his team option. Literally one of the dumbest uses of the amnesty in the league.

[knickscity]

Clutch this is all I'm saying lol If we bring back Prigioni for the minimum. I'm completely fine with it. Who are we bidding against though? Like I said before, we're literally at an auction by ourselves raising the paddle.

And Blue vs Orange...I'd hardly consider Novak a success considering Glen Grunwald himself was quoted this week as saying the signing was a mistake lol How was Novak cheap? We paid him 4 million dollars. And need I remind you HOW we obtained Tyson Chandler? Even if you like him (which I don't), we wasted our amnesty on a player right after we picked up his team option. Literally one of the dumbest uses of the amnesty in the league.
Walsh picked up Billups option immediately after the Knicks got swept, other wise there would have been a 4 mil cap hit AND no player.

Grunwald used the amnesty after the lockout ended almost six month later.

Two different people did two different things, they arent connected.

[franchize]

Walsh picked up Billups option immediately after the Knicks got swept, other wise there would have been a 4 mil cap hit AND no player.

Grunwald used the amnesty after the lockout ended almost six month later.

Two different people did two different things, they arent connected.

Yea because we couldn't sign players during the lockout...

Anyway, I guess we'll agree to disagree on Grunwald as well. I think he's overpaid far too many players.

[knickscity]

Yea because we couldn't sign players during the lockout...

Anyway, I guess we'll agree to disagree on Grunwald as well. I think he's overpaid far too many players.
All of our players are overpaid.

[franchize]

All of our players are overpaid.
I disagree but whatever. I don't think Melo, JR, Felton, Shumpert are overpaid. Ironically, I feel like they're the best players on the team. :confusedshrug: Go figure.

[knickscity]

I disagree but whatever. I don't think Melo, JR, Felton, Shumpert are overpaid. Ironically, I feel like they're the best players on the team. :confusedshrug: Go figure.
melo's contract doesnt lineup anywhere close to the current CBA, so yes, he's overpaid.

JR signed with us because no one offered more.

Shump is on rookie scale, his deal doesnt equate yet.

Felton is on a cheap backup type deal, but thats really what he is.....never should have gotten a four year deal though, thats my main issue.

[franchize]

1. I don't get how that's his fault he signed before the CBA. Out of the players who make the max, he's better than 99% of them. Whatever the max is, was and will be, Carmelo Anthony would have been a max player.
2. Not true at all. Dallas wasn't willing to go over 8 million but offered him more. Milwaukee showed interest but appears to be more interested in OJ Mayo... which is understandable.
3. By all I assumed you meant ALL.
4. Felton get paid far less than what he's asked to do. If he's getting backup money to be a starter, and you at least admit he's a backup, how exactly is he over paid? And why does it matter how long the deal is? If he's a capable backup in your eyes making appropriate money...

[knickscity]

1. I don't get how that's his fault he signed before the CBA. Out of the players who make the max, he's better than 99% of them. Whatever the max is, was and will be, Carmelo Anthony would have been a max player.
2. Not true at all. Dallas wasn't willing to go over 8 million but offered him more. Milwaukee showed interest but appears to be more interested in OJ Mayo... which is understandable.
3. By all I assumed you meant ALL.
4. Felton get paid far less than what he's asked to do. If he's getting backup money to be a starter, and you at least admit he's a backup, how exactly is he over paid? And why does it matter how long the deal is? If he's a capable backup in your eyes making appropriate money...
I didnt say it was his fault, i merely said overpaid. It's like still paying a high mortgage on a house without the option to refinance now that the market is lower....not the homeowners fault, but the price is still too high.

I have seen no article stating teams were willing to offer JR more.

Honestly Felton isnt worth the deal he has at all, I want to see him run the pg position without assistance of having another on the floor with him.

[Blue&Orange]

Clutch this is all I'm saying lol If we bring back Prigioni for the minimum. I'm completely fine with it. Who are we bidding against though? Like I said before, we're literally at an auction by ourselves raising the paddle.

And Blue vs Orange...I'd hardly consider Novak a success considering Glen Grunwald himself was quoted this week as saying the signing was a mistake lol How was Novak cheap? We paid him 4 million dollars. And need I remind you HOW we obtained Tyson Chandler? Even if you like him (which I don't), we wasted our amnesty on a player right after we picked up his team option. Literally one of the dumbest uses of the amnesty in the league.
Novak was overpaid when he re-signed he was brought on a cheap ass contract.

You can't let Billups walk, pretty sure when his option was picked, no one thought Mavs didn't want Chandler back. You can argue bad luck there, that's it.

About Prigi and JR contracts, i have nothing against Knicks overpaying their own players, it sends a good message to agents and other players, that sooner or later you gonna get paid. Knicks might be able to sign good players for cheap because of it. And if anyone deserves is Prigi, class act and consummated professional.

[franchize]

Novak was overpaid when he re-signed he was brought on a cheap ass contract.

You can't let Billups walk, pretty sure when his option was picked, no one thought Mavs didn't want Chandler back. You can argue bad luck there, that's it.

About Prigi and JR contracts, i have nothing against Knicks overpaying their own players, it sends a good message to agents and other players, that sooner or later you gonna get paid. Knicks might be able to sign good players for cheap because of it. And if anyone deserves is Prigi, class act and consummated professional.

1. He was brought in because nobody wanted him. And then we didn't want him either. I don't get how you can argue this when Grunwald himself said "I paid Novak too much money."

2. Chauncey Billups hasn't been a 13 million dollar PG in a while. He damn sure wasn't one for the Knicks, especially given the fact that he was hurt the entire playoffs. So Walsh was an idiot for that (and Grunwald was here with him). Then we compounded the problem paying Chandler. Not sure what luck and the Mavs have to do with it.

3. We've overpaid players who don't deserve it for years. It hasn't paid dividends yet. If we're sending a message, it might be a poor one. In FA, don't both negotiating with the Knicks, because they'll spend their money or bums because they are fan favorites and their fan base hates the players who can actually play.

And for the record, I don't consider JR overpaid. JJ Reddick got a 7 mill per year contract. I think JR's is market value for a 6 man of the year. Especially given the fact he's been playing here WELL under market value.

[el gringos]

Grunwald has made 1 trade this offseason- and it was a great trade. Took a safe low risk/low reward draft pick- and then picked up a guy that could payoff as an undrafted rookie.


There is still a chance of another trade- grunwald might have the best offseason of any gm in the league.

[Rameek]

Grunwald has made 1 trade this offseason- and it was a great trade. Took a safe low risk/low reward draft pick- and then picked up a guy that could payoff as an undrafted rookie.


There is still a chance of another trade- grunwald might have the best offseason of any gm in the league.
you sir a delusional. that was not a great trade it was garbage trade. you overpaid for a guy that would have eventually been amnestied that they couldnt get rid of fast enough and mortgaging picks which is equated to cheap labour.

there is still time though for this guy to do something. but right now
felton, shump, melo, bargs, stat, chandler, hardaway jr, leslie is not going anywhere fast.

Bargs didnt fill one void on this team. He isnt the answer to anything this team needed to fill. This team needed a scorer, defender, size, a legit number 2. Bargs does none of these things.

[el gringos]

you sir a delusional. that was not a great trade it was garbage trade. you overpaid for a guy that would have eventually been amnestied that they couldnt get rid of fast enough and mortgaging picks which is equated to cheap labour.

there is still time though for this guy to do something. but right now
felton, shump, melo, bargs, stat, chandler, hardaway jr, leslie is not going anywhere fast.
1 future pick in the 20's. another Tim hardaway jr type pick- 2nds can be bought in any year if there was a guy they wanted.

I agree that Felton, shumpert, Carmelo, Bargnani, amare, chandler, and the 2 rookies isn't going anywhere. But I think you are wrong that Carmelo, Bargnani, shumpert, jr isn't a group of 4 that can be added too.

Amare is someone who you can't count on anything from- put the right pieces around him and put him in the right spot and the Knicks can revive some of his value.

So if amare can't be moved for pieces it has to be chandler and Felton moved for pieces that fit around the top 4. Are you really saying the Knicks couldn't get anything out of those guys? Or do you believe those 2 are the right pieces?

[Rameek]

1 future pick in the 20's. another Tim hardaway jr type pick- 2nds can be bought in any year if there was a guy they wanted.

I agree that Felton, shumpert, Carmelo, Bargnani, amare, chandler, and the 2 rookies isn't going anywhere. But I think you are wrong that Carmelo, Bargnani, shumpert, jr isn't a group of 4 that can be added too.

Amare is someone who you can't count on anything from- put the right pieces around him and put him in the right spot and the Knicks can revive some of his value.

So if amare can't be moved for pieces it has to be chandler and Felton moved for pieces that fit around the top 4. Are you really saying the Knicks couldn't get anything out of those guys? Or do you believe those 2 are the right pieces?
Do you realize you cant buy a complete roster? If you do you have to want to be way over the luxury tax. Obviously you didnt get the memo the new CBA punishment for being over the luxury tax is astronomical. The knicks arent going over where they are....!!! They eventually want to lower the bill.

So how do you not buy a team you draft players but if you have no picks then you cant do that... If you have no picks you cant dump players on other teams for free.

For you to dump players on other teams they have to be moved to teams that are under the salary cap. None of these players are worth their salary. You realize thats what franchise main complaint is. Can they be moved sure. How do you do it then when these guys arent commodities for play? They arent expirers, you have no picks to package them with? You dont want to take on more salary?

Something should be done though if you want a championship.

[knickscity]

3 picks for a dude that no one wanted is now considered great?:roll:

[franchize]

3 picks for a dude that no one wanted is now considered great?:roll:
You referring to Bargnani? :oldlol:
My goodness, the dude is on the team and we STILL have to hear ya boy's endorsement of why he should be on the team? lmao

[Blue&Orange]

This isn't the Knicks forum this is the "lets whine and bitch" forum.

A late 1st round pick for a former n

[knickscity]

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]This isn't the Knicks forum this is the "lets whine and bitch" forum.

A late 1st round pick for a former n

[franchize]

Bargnani was booed worse than A Rod in Toronto lmao

[kNicKz]

he was certain to be amnestied.

false

[Rameek]

false


Andrea Bargnani is not expected to return to the Raptors next season, according to the Toronto Sun.
We'll file this under "obvious." Bargnani has two seasons remaining on his contract, and it's going to be very difficult to trade him in the offseason for anything of real value. It would be nothing short of shocking to see Bargnani start next season with the Raptors.
Source: Toronto Sun Mar 14 - 8:24 AM


Sources tell the Toronto Sun that the Raptors would have to include an asset in order to trade Andrea Bargnani.
In other words, the Raptors can't dump Bargnani on his own because other teams don't view him as an asset. The former No. 1 overall pick still has $22.5 million over two years remaining on his contract and is now regarded as little more than a strech-four that's a liability defensively. The Raptors are going to have to get creative -- and take pennies on the dollar -- if they're going to make a trade happen this summer.
Source: Toronto Sun Apr 23 - 4:10 PM

[QUOTE]The Raptors remain interested in trading Andrea Bargnani, according to president Bryan Colangelo.
"I still would say there

[Rameek]

Cap space, picks, expirers are the tools to make moves.

The Knicks dont currently have the space so they need to get the next 2 in the future. By giving away 3 picks for a player who is trashy and has a bad contract TO the Raps we paid them more than he is worth and BAILED them out. We paid them top price to take on someone they didnt want.

His contract was a 100 times worse for their organization than camby and novak to ours. novak could have been dumped in time for 2015 2016

I dont know how any of this can be explained simpler.

[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]This isn't the Knicks forum this is the "lets whine and bitch" forum.

A late 1st round pick for a former n

[knickballer]

They couldnt give this guy away but some how the Knicks found a way to give up 3 picks for him. It should have been the other way around.:rolleyes: :rant

Again, two second round picks are practically worthless.

Steve Novak and Camby were practically dead weight on the squad and might as well get a guy who can turn into a key player for us.

[knickscity]

Again, two second round picks are practically worthless.

Steve Novak and Camby were practically dead weight on the squad and might as well get a guy who can turn into a key player for us.

Just curious, if picks are useless, why do teams buy them?

They are obviously less value than a first rounder, which we freely gave as well, but they have value.

[franchize]

I'm with Knickscity here. 2nd round picks not only give you a chance to get a diamond in the rough player without them having a guaranteed contract, they also are value in trade scenarios. I'm almost certain quite a few 2nd round picks this year will outplay their 1st round peers this year. A lot of guys we all were interested in dropped to the 2nd while some teams made questionable choices in the 1st. We're a team with limited talent but very little options due to our cap situation, so drafts picks and exceptions are our only real assets. We can't afford to continue to squander them.

[knickscity]

I'm with Knickscity here. 2nd round picks not only give you a chance to get a diamond in the rough player without them having a guaranteed contract, they also are value in trade scenarios. I'm almost certain quite a few 2nd round picks this year will outplay their 1st round peers this year. A lot of guys we all were interested in dropped to the 2nd while some teams made questionable choices in the 1st. We're a team with limited talent but very little options due to our cap situation, so drafts picks and exceptions are our only real assets. We can't afford to continue to squander them.
look no further than Morey and Houston.

Just about ALL of their second rounder are on long term non guaranteed deals.

the player if they play well, get security.

The team gets their bird rights so they will NEVER lose them unless they want to.

[franchize]

I think the last few years illustrate it best. A high 2nd round pick is as valuable, if not more valuable, than a late 1st. You can get a solid player and if he doesn't pan out, you're not stuck with him for 3 years.

[franchize]

As Knick fans, are we going to continue to be biased and naive about the Nets moves, or are we going to recognize that they have a smarter GM than we do? I mean seriously...Kirilenko as your BACKUP SF? Garnett and Pierce as your 4th and 5th options? Blatche for the minimum. Livingston for the minimum. Those are quality moves. Not making Pablo Shitioni your top priority in Free Agency.

[Rameek]

As Knick fans, are we going to continue to be biased and naive about the Nets moves, or are we going to recognize that they have a smarter GM than we do? I mean seriously...Kirilenko as your BACKUP SF? Garnett and Pierce as your 4th and 5th options? Blatche for the minimum. Livingston for the minimum. Those are quality moves. Not making Pablo Shitioni your top priority in Free Agency.
Not the same thing. The Knicks do not want to pay a large luxury tax. You know this so I dont see the complaint. The Nets owner doesnt mind paying that HEAVY PENALTY.

[franchize]

Not the same thing. The Knicks do not want to pay a large luxury tax. You know this so I dont see the complaint. The Nets owner doesnt mind paying that HEAVY PENALTY.

Knicks are the most valuable NBA franchise in the league. Besides, Kirilenko signed for the mini mid. Every move other than the trade really didn't cost them any money.

[Rameek]

Knicks are the most valuable NBA franchise in the league. Besides, Kirilenko signed for the mini mid. Every move other than the trade really didn't cost them any money.
Maybe knickcity can explain it better. Knicks ownership has reached their salary threshold.

[el gringos]

I think the last few years illustrate it best. A high 2nd round pick is as valuable, if not more valuable, than a late 1st. You can get a solid player and if he doesn't pan out, you're not stuck with him for 3 years.
A Carmelo team isn't finishing bottom 10. We aren't talking about high 2nds.

[Rameek]

The mini -mle. Is gone but you will find out soon enough who wants to play here or not for the vet minimum.

[knickscity]

Knicks are the most valuable NBA franchise in the league. Besides, Kirilenko signed for the mini mid. Every move other than the trade really didn't cost them any money.
The Knicks are owned by a corporation that only sees profit.

They won't be throwing money away in luxury tax.

They are paying 9 mil this year.

Kirilenko is Russian, so is their owner.

The Nets are a toy to Prok, he really has an open checkbook, not concerned about the luxury tax at all.

[el gringos]

The mini -mle. Is gone but you will find out soon enough who wants to play here or not for the vet minimum.
Boom- that's it. Are we about to sign Chauncey, Gary Neal. The artist formerly kniwn as ron artest, Kenyon Martin and fesenko?


Prob not. It's prob 1 guy decent like a sebas and then Chris smith, dermarr Johnson, and a couple of the same dipshit never string centers they keep bringing back.

[el gringos]

*PG*Shumpert/Chauncey/Gary Neal/prigioni/nedovic
*SG*Jr smith/Gerald green
*SF*Carmelo/Ron artest
*PF*Bargnani/Ryan Anderson
*C*Amare/Jason smith/Kenyon Martin/fesenko


Damn too bad I'm not the gm. That team is the next dynasty.

[franchize]

Boom- that's it. Are we about to sign Chauncey, Gary Neal. The artist formerly kniwn as ron artest, Kenyon Martin and fesenko?


Prob not. It's prob 1 guy decent like a sebas and then Chris smith, dermarr Johnson, and a couple of the same dipshit never string centers they keep bringing back.

Chauncey is a Piston so scratch that plan. And I think I speak for myself as well as Rameek when I say "if Chris Smith makes this team...I might as well hit the Knicks up for a tryout."

And I'm still not seeing the significance in this Prokorov vs Dolan argument. Kirilenko signed for the mini mid...which I'm sure we're going to use as well. Blatche and Livingston signed for the minimum. I'm not even concerned with the blockbuster trade. Their minor roster moves have been better. That was my only point. The trade, in my opinion, speaks for itself. Maybe I did a poos job of explaining what I was trying to say. My bad.

[Rameek]

Well dont we have 1.7 left of the mini mle? Well if the Knicks had players lined up in the pipe line to sign for the vet minimum we should hear those announcements soon. If a week goes by I will be concerned.

I really do think players string the Knicks along though with no intentions of actually signing here.

I like the aggressiveness of Billy but he has a blank check. Prokav wants to win a championship this year and next year. Then Billy will have these salaries off after that too, then retool again.


Chauncey is a Piston so scratch that plan. And I think I speak for myself as well as Rameek when I say "if Chris Smith makes this team...I might as well hit the Knicks up for a tryout."

And I'm still not seeing the significance in this Prokorov vs Dolan argument. Kirilenko signed for the mini mid...which I'm sure we're going to use as well. Blatche and Livingston signed for the minimum. I'm not even concerned with the blockbuster trade. Their minor roster moves have been better. That was my only point. The trade, in my opinion, speaks for itself. Maybe I did a poos job of explaining what I was trying to say. My bad.

[franchize]

Grunwald said "we have a bunch of players that want to play for the Knicks" lol