Jason Kidd in Last 13 Games.....Yikes

[bagelred]

Jason Kidd's Stats Last 13 Games:


22.2 Minutes Per Game
2.3 Points
3.5 Rebounds
2.0 Assists
18.5% FG%

I'm sure his +/- is still decent for these games, since he does lots of the intangibles you don't see.....but still......those raw numbers are beyond atrocious.

Knicks need to think about a temporary benching....maybe get him some rest to get his legs back. Play Shumpert, Prigioni and Amar'e more.....

[Clutch]

Dat veteran leadership :bowdown:

[Screamingdoom]

He needs to sit out a few games and rest up

[HorryIsMyMVP]

He has been washed up for a long time. I still find it outrageous that people found him to be one of the best players on that Mavs championship team.

[TheMarkMadsen]

He's coasting

[mattvNJ]

He has been washed up for a long time. I still find it outrageous that people found him to be one of the best players on that Mavs championship team.

Exaggeration...
eh he did alot on that team. Things you cant just see in stats he hit the open three, spread the floor, facilitated and gave a veteran perspective and leadership to that team with dirk and crew, this year he started out alright too, just age is obviously not letting him compete for a whole season.

[Euroleague]

Mike Woodson is an idiot that is going to get fired over stupid NBA hierarchy and caste system bullshit.

Prigioni is way better than Kidd and needs to takeover the main job running that team.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Exaggeration...
eh he did alot on that team. Things you cant just see in stats he hit the open three, spread the floor, facilitated and gave a veteran perspective and leadership to that team with dirk and crew, this year he started out alright too, just age is obviously not letting him compete for a whole season.
So because he rarely clanked in a 3 that makes it veteran leadership? I mean I give him props because he could dribble it up the court and pass it to dirk who was shooting 90%.

[ripthekik]

um.. u guys missed out the first half of the season, he was playing great. great veteran to have on the team.

[Budadiiii]

Poor mans Derek Fisher with considerably less Bball IQ. Cut his ass.

[tazb]

He's 50 years old what did you expect?

[HorryIsMyMVP]

He's 50 years old what did you expect?
they expect a lot because people viewed him as the MVP of that Mavs team.

[Sarcastic]

Knicks are 2-0 with Kenyon Martin now. :banana:

[SCdac]

So because he rarely clanked in a 3 that makes it veteran leadership? I mean I give him props because he could dribble it up the court and pass it to dirk who was shooting 90%.

Huh? Kidd knocked down 20 more three's than Dirk in those playoffs (lead the team with 43 threes), dished out twice as many assists as the next highest Mav (153 assists to Barea's 71), and lead the team in steals (40 in 21 games). Not to mention the intangible impact he had and defensive edge he provides at his position. No need to denigrate him and his performance. Fact that he won a championship with the team that drafted him is even more badass.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jason+Kidd+Dallas+Mavericks+v+Miami+Heat+Iq1FC9PtO Lhl.jpg

[Artillery]

they expect a lot because people viewed him as the MVP of that Mavs team.

You're retarded. Kidd started off the season playing great but his age has caught up with him. He shouldn't be playing more than 20 mins a game - Woodson's distribution of minutes is at fault here.

[Clifton]

He has been washed up for a long time. I still find it outrageous that people found him to be one of the best players on that Mavs championship team.
Veteran presence. He could seriously shoot 20% for the playoffs and the team would be better off with him on the court for 20 and JR Smith for 30 rather than JR Smith for 40.

This team wins nothing without JKidd. Neither do those Mavs. You *need* a guy like him. Especially if you're such an unbalanced team like the Knicks (JR, Felton, Melo, Amare, a ton of old guys who will be injured every other game so your lineup's never the same...)

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Huh? Kidd knocked down 20 more three's than Dirk in those playoffs (lead the team with 43 threes), dished out twice as many assists as the next highest Mav (153 assists to Barea's 71), and lead the team in steals (40 in 21 games). Not to mention the intangible impact he had and defensive edge he provides at his position. No need to denigrate him and his performance. Fact that he won a championship with the team that drafted him is even more badass.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jason+Kidd+Dallas+Mavericks+v+Miami+Heat+Iq1FC9PtO Lhl.jpg
So Kidd is more important to the team then Dirk to you? The guy who averaged 28 points in the play off's? Shooting a better percent then Kidd despite taking way more shots? Kid averaged 9 and 7 in the play off's. Dirk averaged 28 points a game. Do realize how hard that is to accomplish? Most of the shots Dirk made were high difficulty shots. It wasn't like Kidd's existence was making it easy on Dirk. Dirk was just that good. He willed that championship on his own. And he got some help when he struggled in the finals.

[Clifton]

Kid averaged 9 and 7 in the play off's. Dirk averaged 28 points a game. Do realize how hard that is to accomplish?
Obviously Dirk is the MVP of that team and not Kidd; that doesn't mean they could have won the title without Kidd though. Great as Dirk is, there is something he lacks that JKidd brings. The greatness of Larry Bird is that he was both players rolled into one; the ability to sustain a heavy load on offense *and* bring those intangibles are what separate the "big 6" who have an argument for GOAT from guys like Karl Malone and Dirk.


It wasn't like Kidd's existence was making it easy on Dirk. Dirk was just that good. He willed that championship on his own.
Well, despite winning 55 games in the regular season for ten straight years, he sure didn't "will that championship on his own" any season other than when he had JKidd. Sure didn't against the Warriors in 07. Didn't against the Heat in 06.

[SCdac]

So Kidd is more important to the team then Dirk to you?

No, he wasn't more important, but this statement by you is just trollish and retarded:


He has been washed up for a long time. I still find it outrageous that people found him to be one of the best players on that Mavs championship team.

Did you even watch the playoffs? Kidd played 37 mpg in the WCF and Finals. That's about how much Parker plays in the playoffs for instance

[Sarcastic]

You're retarded. Kidd started off the season playing great but his age has caught up with him. He shouldn't be playing more than 20 mins a game - Woodson's distribution of minutes is at fault here.


Exactly. Kidd was originally signed to be the backup to Jeremy Lin, and be his tutor and provide leadership. He was not signed to be a starting shooting guard playing near 30 minutes per game. Woodson is an ass.

[bagelred]

In 13 games, Kidd has made only three 2-point field goals. THREE in 13 games. All his other points (which aren't many) were 3 pointers. That's Steve Novak territory.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Obviously Dirk is the MVP of that team and not Kidd; that doesn't mean they could have won the title without Kidd though. Great as Dirk is, there is something he lacks that JKidd brings. The greatness of Larry Bird is that he was both players rolled into one; the ability to sustain a heavy load on offense *and* bring those intangibles are what separate the "big 6" who have an argument for GOAT from guys like Karl Malone and Dirk.


Well, despite winning 55 games in the regular season for ten straight years, he sure didn't "will that championship on his own" any season other than when he had JKidd. Sure didn't against the Warriors in 07. Didn't against the Heat in 06.
Kidd was replaceable and his intangibles were overrated. Had that same team had Devin Harris as the PG they would have been a better team. Dirk wasn't replaceable.

[Clutch]

Kidd was great to start the season but in the last 2 months he's been absolutely horrible. He's not making many mistakes but he's not helping us either.

[Clifton]

Kidd was replaceable and his intangibles were overrated. Had that same team had Devin Harris as the PG they would have been a better team.
Dude, your screen name is HorryIsMyMVP... even it agrees with me.

But seriously, think of what that kind of thinking does to teams. That's Mark Cuban thinking: "I could have a solid roleplayer who can't really do anything other than play defense... or I could have Antoine Walker. AND Antoine Jamison. Those guys score 20 points a game, that's awesome. I wonder why they're so easy to trade for and Shane Battier's so hard." Devin Harris is one of dozens and dozens of players who can score 20 points a night if you want but who won't make your team better. Shane Battier will go weeks shooting under 30% from 3, but just try and pry him from the Heat. Quality programs know what makes a winner.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Dude, your screen name is HorryIsMyMVP... even it agrees with me.

But seriously, think of what that kind of thinking does to teams. That's Mark Cuban thinking: "I could have a solid roleplayer who can't really do anything other than play defense... or I could have Antoine Walker. AND Antoine Jamison. Those guys score 20 points a game, that's awesome. I wonder why they're so easy to trade for and Shane Battier's so hard." Devin Harris is one of dozens and dozens of players who can score 20 points a night if you want but who won't make your team better. Shane Battier will go weeks shooting under 30% from 3, but just try and pry him from the Heat. Quality programs know what makes a winner.
Devin Harris is a better defender then Kidd. He was younger and got a lot of steals. Played better pressure defense. Do you not remember when Harris played for the Mavs? I mean they certainly didn't have the team they had when they won it all. But everything Harris did outweighed anything Kidd did on the Mavs. In every regard of basketball. Harris was a superior player.

[Clifton]

Do you not remember when Harris played for the Mavs?
I remember him well. I thought he was one of the most overrated players in recent memory and I hated his game. I remember looking at box scores after games and not believing my eyes because he seemed to have such a negligible impact and to score by accident.

[shortsoptional]

Kidd needs a coach like Pop that will manage his minutes. Kidd was playing way too many minutes at the beginning of the season. He needs to be 20 minute a game guy who closes out games as the SG position.

He was terrible at the end of the 2011 regular season, and then Carlisle sat him down for a week or so before the playoffs. He came out and was a huge reason for Dallas beating Portland in game 1 (and obviously the entire playoffs).

He just needs to be managed well and given rest.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I remember him well. I thought he was one of the most overrated players in recent memory and I hated his game. I remember looking at box scores after games and not believing my eyes because he seemed to have such a negligible impact and to score by accident.
Are you kidding? Harris use to shut down star point guards. He shut down prime Steve Nash.

[shortsoptional]

Devin Harris is a better defender then Kidd. He was younger and got a lot of steals. Played better pressure defense. Do you not remember when Harris played for the Mavs? I mean they certainly didn't have the team they had when they won it all. But everything Harris did outweighed anything Kidd did on the Mavs. In every regard of basketball. Harris was a superior player.


Um... no.

Defensively is debatable, but you need to actually watch those playoff games in 2011 if you don't think Kidd was great defensively. Great at anticipation, knowing where defensive rebounds (and offensive) were going to fall and guarding everyone from PG to SG to SF. He's very savvy and what he lacked in speed he made up for in strength and superior BBIQ.

With regards to Devin Haris, yes, his man defense on Tony Parker was superb and a large reason the Mavs didn't bring back Nash. They knew they would have to go through Parker every year if they wanted to win it all and Devin was the perfect defensive player for him. However, Devin didn't rotate on defense like Kidd did. He didn't place players in the correct positions like Kidd did. Defense goes beyond just manning up a defender and locking him down. It's a large part, but it's not all there is to it.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Um... no.

Defensively is debatable, but you need to actually watch those playoff games in 2011 if you don't think Kidd was great defensively. Great at anticipation, knowing where defensive rebounds (and offensive) were going to fall and guarding everyone from PG to SG to SF. He's very savvy and what he lacked in speed he made up for in strength and superior BBIQ.

With regards to Devin Haris, yes, his man defense on Tony Parker was superb and a large reason the Mavs didn't bring back Nash. They knew they would have to go through Parker every year if they wanted to win it all and Devin was the perfect defensive player for him. However, Devin didn't rotate on defense like Kidd did. He didn't place players in the correct positions like Kidd did. Defense goes beyond just manning up a defender and locking him down. It's a large part, but it's not all there is to it.
Kidd has gotten blown up by almost every star point guard in the game. Do you remember when Chris Paul pounded his chest saying Kidd can't guard me? When he went right at Jason Kidd scoring 39 points?

[Clifton]

Kidd needs a coach like Pop that will manage his minutes. Kidd was playing way too many minutes at the beginning of the season. He needs to be 20 minute a game guy who closes out games as the SG position.
Agreed.

I've noticed minutes are managed horribly in the NBA. If you are a championship contender, that's a hundred games a season. If you got old guys you gotta save them for the postseason... Clippers and Knicks I'm talking to you...


Are you kidding? Harris use to shut down star point guards. He shut down prime Steve Nash.
His defense was good I'll give you that. So is John Wall's though. Doesn't mean you want him to be the captain of a team that aspires to a championship in the short-term.


Kidd has gotten blown up by almost every star point guard in the game. Do you remember when Chris Paul pounded his chest saying Kidd can't guard me? When he went right at Jason Kidd scoring 39 points?
How does he do guarding 2s?

[miggyme1]

Poor mans Derek Fisher with considerably less Bball IQ. Cut his ass.


spoken like a true ISH crackhead.whos your supplier? whoever it is got that good good! lol

[shortsoptional]

Kidd has gotten blown up by almost every star point guard in the game. Do you remember when Chris Paul pounded his chest saying Kidd can't guard me? When he went right at Jason Kidd scoring 39 points?

Well... first, I don't think there are really anyone that could guard CP3 ESPECIALLY that year. That was one of the most impressive point guard seasons in recent memory. But as I said, yes Devin Haris was better suited to guard top point guards one on one. But Dallas doesn't always play defense one on one and they didn't have Kidd guarding PG's all the time. I also said that it's debatable and if you want to say Devin in 2006-7 was a better defender than Kidd was in 2011, I don't have a problem with that. But when you say he was "superior" that implies that there is a wide gap and there just isn't. Kidd guarded Kobe, Durant, Wade, LeBron and Westbrook with success in 2011 and that merits mentions. Devin was "superior" to Kidd in man to man defense, but he was not overall.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Well... first, I don't think there are really anyone that could guard CP3 ESPECIALLY that year. That was one of the most impressive point guard seasons in recent memory. But as I said, yes Devin Haris was better suited to guard top point guards one on one. But Dallas doesn't always play defense one on one and they didn't have Kidd guarding PG's all the time. I also said that it's debatable and if you want to say Devin in 2006-7 was a better defender than Kidd was in 2011, I don't have a problem with that. But when you say he was "superior" that implies that there is a wide gap and there just isn't. Kidd guarded Kobe, Durant, Wade, LeBron and Westbrook with success in 2011 and that merits mentions. Devin was "superior" to Kidd in man to man defense, but he was not overall.
The fact that Dallas had to put JJ Barea on Chris Paul instead of Kidd. Should be embarrassing enough. That is the mark of an elite defender like Kidd. After getting blown out for 30 points you switch to JJ BAREA.

[shortsoptional]

The fact that Dallas had to put JJ Barea on Chris Paul instead of Kidd. Should be embarrassing enough. That is the mark of an elite defender like Kidd. After getting blown out for 30 points you switch to JJ BAREA.


Maybe you can help me remember what game you are referring to. I thought you were talking about how CP3 beat up on Dallas in the 08 playoffs. In that series, JJ Barea played a total of 5 minutes. If you are referring to the 2011 playoffs, JJ Barea was inserted in to the starting lineup in the Finals for offensive purposes only. Dallas never played Chris Paul in the playoffs that year.

Not sure we're on the same page here.

[ErhnamDjinn]

Exaggeration...
eh he did alot on that team. Things you cant just see in stats he hit the open three, spread the floor, facilitated and gave a veteran perspective and leadership to that team with dirk and crew, this year he started out alright too, just age is obviously not letting him compete for a whole season.
yup when roody and Barera were on the floor for long stretches the MAvs lost focus, the veterans on that Mav team, Terry, Marion and Kidd were what won them that chip along with God mode Dirk.

[ClutchOver9000]

He's coasting

:oldlol:

[LockoutOver11]

Are you kidding? Harris use to shut down star point guards. He shut down prime Steve Nash.

my grandmama could too... shut ur ass up boy.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Maybe his team mates realized how pathetic he has become since his prime and that put a fire under them?

[Lebron23]

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2007/08/wii1.JPG

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/11/08/sports/web_photos/jason_kidd--300x300.jpg

Come at me bros.

[shortsoptional]

Maybe his team mates realized how pathetic he has become since his prime and that put a fire under them?

Obvious trolling at this point...

[Euroleague]

Huh? Kidd knocked down 20 more three's than Dirk in those playoffs (lead the team with 43 threes), dished out twice as many assists as the next highest Mav (153 assists to Barea's 71), and lead the team in steals (40 in 21 games). Not to mention the intangible impact he had and defensive edge he provides at his position. No need to denigrate him and his performance. Fact that he won a championship with the team that drafted him is even more badass.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jason+Kidd+Dallas+Mavericks+v+Miami+Heat+Iq1FC9PtO Lhl.jpg

Seriously, what year is it? Kidd has been an awful defender for years now.

[Euroleague]

Veteran presence. He could seriously shoot 20% for the playoffs and the team would be better off with him on the court for 20 and JR Smith for 30 rather than JR Smith for 40.

This team wins nothing without JKidd. Neither do those Mavs. You *need* a guy like him. Especially if you're such an unbalanced team like the Knicks (JR, Felton, Melo, Amare, a ton of old guys who will be injured every other game so your lineup's never the same...)

No. Because Prigioni is definitely better than Kidd at this time. Prigioni should be getting more minutes. That's where Woodson is being stupid.

[All Net]

Big reason why Knicks have fallen off abit..

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Seriously, what year is it? Kidd has been an awful defender for years now.
That much is clearly obvious. Tyson Chandler and Marion and even Deshawn Stevenson covered up a lot of Kidd and Dirk's defense inability. Kidd can guard jump shots but he hasn't been able to stay in front of anyone for at least 5 years now. Frankly I could see Kidd guarding players like Kobe but it wouldn't have any effect on if they miss or not.

[JoshCoward]

Are we really questioning what Kidd brought to that Mavs team? :facepalm Dirk said it, Cuban said it, Carlisle said it, the fans KNEW - that they would not have won it all in 2011 had Kidd not been there and/or Devin Harris was their starting PG. He would've not got the ball in Dirk's hand the way Kidd did during that series. Not going to argue, I know what I saw with my eyes.

To the OP itself, part of me believes that Kidd was mis-managed in terms of playing time but another part also says he is nearly done. I want to see what he does in the playoffs before making a judgement but if he continues to struggle throughout the season and playoff games, he should really consider retirement. He is capable SG/SF defender, gets couple of steals and rebounds here and there but otherwise, he brings nothing to the table (he need to knock down those open 3s).

[Euroleague]

Are we really questioning what Kidd brought to that Mavs team? :facepalm Dirk said it, Cuban said it, Carlisle said it, the fans KNEW - that they would not have won it all in 2011 had Kidd not been there and/or Devin Harris was their starting PG. He would've not got the ball in Dirk's hand the way Kidd did during that series. Not going to argue, I know what I saw with my eyes.

To the OP itself, part of me believes that Kidd was mis-managed in terms of playing time but another part also says he is nearly done. I want to see what he does in the playoffs before making a judgement but if he continues to struggle throughout the season and playoff games, he should really consider retirement. He is capable SG/SF defender, gets couple of steals and rebounds here and there but otherwise, he brings nothing to the table (he need to knock down those open 3s).

I'm talking about right now.

[SevereUpInHere]

Big reason why Knicks have fallen off abit..


This is definitely a bit true. Once Felton went down (with no Shump) he was carrying too much of a load and hasn't seemed to recover.

Now Shump is back and we've all seen Prig is more than capable of running the offence I've got no problem with bringing his minutes right down.

He needs to be able to knock down the open 3s like he was doing earlier this season. He doesn't take contested shots, he's just missing the ones he's taking now. Wonder if he's getting slightly different looks now or something.

[shortsoptional]

This is definitely a bit true. Once Felton went down (with no Shump) he was carrying too much of a load and hasn't seemed to recover.

Now Shump is back and we've all seen Prig is more than capable of running the offence I've got no problem with bringing his minutes right down.

He needs to be able to knock down the open 3s like he was doing earlier this season. He doesn't take contested shots, he's just missing the ones he's taking now. Wonder if he's getting slightly different looks now or something.


It's all in the legs.

Carlisle rested him for a few games before the playoffs in 2011 and it did wonders for him. Came out and hit 6 threes in first round game 1. They seriously need to just give him some time off. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili get it all the time... a game here a game there. But NY can't be asking him to play 30 minutes....ever. At damn near 40, he should be playing 20 minutes with a game off every 5 or 6 games. Or pick spots to give him an extra long lay off.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Reduce his minutes. That way you save him for the playoffs and Shumpert is given time to get into things just in case.

Hopefully they don't end up like last year because that was painful to watch. No point guards - every player on the team except JR Smith tired or injured.

[SevereUpInHere]

It's all in the legs.

Carlisle rested him for a few games before the playoffs in 2011 and it did wonders for him. Came out and hit 6 threes in first round game 1. They seriously need to just give him some time off. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili get it all the time... a game here a game there. But NY can't be asking him to play 30 minutes....ever. At damn near 40, he should be playing 20 minutes with a game off every 5 or 6 games. Or pick spots to give him an extra long lay off.


He barely even jumps on his 3s :oldlol:
100% agreed though, love to get him a bit of a break, we've got all our guards back now, no reason this can't happen.

[R.I.P.]

Huh? Kidd knocked down 20 more three's than Dirk in those playoffs (lead the team with 43 threes), dished out twice as many assists as the next highest Mav (153 assists to Barea's 71), and lead the team in steals (40 in 21 games). Not to mention the intangible impact he had and defensive edge he provides at his position. No need to denigrate him and his performance. Fact that he won a championship with the team that drafted him is even more badass.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jason+Kidd+Dallas+Mavericks+v+Miami+Heat+Iq1FC9PtO Lhl.jpg

Kidd was awesome in the play-offs. He also sat a week before the play-offs, had some extra days rest, because the Mavs killed the Lakers and Thunder. That is besides the regular day/s off between games. He just can

[Bandito]

So because he rarely clanked in a 3 that makes it veteran leadership? I mean I give him props because he could dribble it up the court and pass it to dirk who was shooting 90%.
I see why you have those red bars. You literally don't know nothing about the game besides stats.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Now I really feel bad knowing that he scored 18 points and the game winning three against the Nets. Damn you Kidd.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

I see why you have those red bars. You literally don't know nothing about the game besides stats.
I'm just calling bullshit that's all.

Harris, Barea, Roddy
Terry, Stevenson, Brewer
Marion
Dirk, Mahinmi
Chandler,Haywood

Plus other filler. I'm here to call bs. The team was stacked, Harris would strengthen perimeter defense.

[No_Look604]

This Horry guys a dummy. I clearly remember Jason Kidd playing great defense against Wade etc in the finals. Actually amazing D considering Wade would just pass it up every time. And at his age?!

No one is talking about his man to man D on opposing point guards.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Wade started strong and simply dissapeared after like game 2.

[Flamboyant]

Are you kidding? Harris use to shut down star point guards. He shut down prime Steve Nash.

There is only one game where I've seen prime Nash completely shut down

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200603270NJN.html

0 FGs, 0 pts, and his team got blown out.

I really liked Harris when he was here, but he shouldn't be put in the same sentence with Kidd, especially when it comes to defense. Kidd gave fits to both Wade and LeBron when he was guarding them 1on1.

[red1]

Huh? Kidd knocked down 20 more three's than Dirk in those playoffs (lead the team with 43 threes), dished out twice as many assists as the next highest Mav (153 assists to Barea's 71), and lead the team in steals (40 in 21 games). Not to mention the intangible impact he had and defensive edge he provides at his position. No need to denigrate him and his performance. Fact that he won a championship with the team that drafted him is even more badass.

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Jason+Kidd+Dallas+Mavericks+v+Miami+Heat+Iq1FC9PtO Lhl.jpg
great post