Michael Jordan in the post. Amazing compilation.

[NugzHeat3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg

Great job by the uploader. Pretty much covered all aspects of his post-up game.

- Phenomenal footwork, so graceful and fluid. Poetry in motion.
- Unreal how much space he creates and how much lift he gets on the jumper
- Little wasted motion and another often overlooked aspect is how great of a job he does protecting the ball so defenders can't poke it away
- Reading the defense and timely decision making. If the double is coming, he can fade on the baseline to negate it. There's also quite a few plays where he sees the double team coming and spins baseline quickly to evade the double team and of course, a few plays where he'll split the double
- How he gets the feel of the defender, creating space off the contact and how he often works to get better position when played in single coverage
- Quick upper body movements (arms, shoulders) allowing for deadly shot fakes and body fakes
- A few crisp passes out of the post showcasing his ability to recognize the double team, pass in traffic often adjusting in mid air

13:57 is a rare play, not sure if I've seen it before. Looks like a game from Shaq's rookie year.

:oldlol: 15:02 They have illegal defense, that should be illegal offense - Doug Collins. That shit was nasty, the ball fake and then the step through making it look effortless.

17:18. That shake on Willie Anderson is one of my favorite Jordan plays. I think its from game 3 vs New York in the 1996 playoffs.

[AirFederer]

Pure perfection :bowdown:

[gengiskhan]

Its like a VIDEO GAME mode.

Its amazing his Upper body in tandem with lower body footwork.

He never ever looks awkward or forcing the issue.

Easily the best PERIMETER post player ever!

Nobody is even close.

NONE!

[Dro]

Nice post...actually tons of footage here thats not in the 4 hour video....

[Haymaker]

repped :cheers:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Amazing :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Its like a VIDEO GAME mode.

Its amazing his Upper body in tandem with lower body footwork.

He never ever looks awkward or forcing the issue.

Easily the best PERIMETER post player ever!

Nobody is even close.

NONE!

Do you consider SF's perimeter players though?

[andgar923]

Dat separation :biggums:

[andgar923]

Looking back at this now and watching some of today's players, what impresses me the most is his recognition and court awareness.

Seriously, as nice as some of those moves are, they can be duplicated by many players in the history of the game. But where he separates himself is in the court awareness, recognition, reaction and execution. It annoys me when players get trapped so easily, I sit there thinking "didn't they see the defender?" "why didn't they react on time?"

You see MJ avoiding the double 'before' they get a chance to get close to him in many of the clips below, and I'm sure there's hundreds of others like that.

[Rolando]

He was truly on another level. I'm so happy to have been able to follow his whole career. I think Kobe does similar things and certainly Lebron could too if the latest rules didn't make it unnecessary to develop his game in the same way. But, as mentioned above, the awareness and BBIQ of Jordan was just off the charts. God playing BBall.:bowdown:

[tikay0]

The separation and body control is amazing. :bowdown:

GOAT perimeter post player.

Decision making is also off the charts. The split second moves he makes, right before the double comes is woah.

LMAO at Shaq trying to double on MJ. Dude got left in the dust.

That level of post dominance is only matched by Hakeem, McHale, and Shaq. The thing that separates MJ from them is, the way he can pass out of doubles.

[tikay0]

Did ya'll see him backing down Anthony Mason!?!?

[Kingwillball]

U forget how EASY Jordan made that Fadeaway look. :bowdown: Not many guys can hit those shots consistently.

[tikay0]

Spin move into pump fake, banker off glass is by far my favorite move of his.

Or the spin move as the double comes, and dunk.

[G-Funk]

Man thats why Lebron will never be better, Jordans skills are above and beyond.

[imnew09]

Pure.

Kobe resembles alot of him in the post.

[Poetry]

Looks like he's trying to wrestle him to the ground :lol

http://i47.tinypic.com/6jkg0k.png

[G-Funk]

Dont wanna start shyt but to me, Kobe has a better post game, not sure about the shot, i dont have the numbers, but the post moves Kobe has are a bit better than MJs


Before u little Mj homos say anything, I wanna clarify that I did not say Kobe was a better player or the jordans posts are not great

[andgar923]

Dont wanna start shyt but to me, Kobe has a better post game, not sure about the shot, i dont have the numbers, but the post moves Kobe has are a bit better than MJs


Before u little Mj homos say anything, I wanna clarify that I did not say Kobe was a better player or the jordans posts are not great

But you're wrong.

[Rolando]

Dont wanna start shyt.........Before u little Mj homos say anything.............

:applause: :roll:

[I<3NBA]

lol at Kobe being better in the post. you're ******.

[G-Funk]

But you're wrong.
Agree to disagree

[G-Funk]

lol at Kobe being better in the post. you're ******.
Ita debateable unlike Lebrons post

[Dragonyeuw]

Dont wanna start shyt but to me, Kobe has a better post game



They have similar post-games. Jordan's fadeaway was pretty much stuck on automatic during the 2nd threepeat. Visually their post-moves are very similar, I think Jordan got better separation when he faded away and didn't have to pump-fake 2-3 times like you see Kobe do often.

[G-Funk]

They have similar post-games. Jordan's fadeaway was pretty much stuck on automatic during the 2nd threepeat. Visually their post-moves are very similar, I think Jordan got better separation when he faded away and didn't have to pump-fake 2-3 times like you see Kobe do often.
Agreed, MJs post moves were more basic but effective...with Kobe u see more foot work in action and deadly pump fakes

[tikay0]

They have similar post-games. Jordan's fadeaway was pretty much stuck on automatic during the 2nd threepeat. Visually their post-moves are very similar, I think Jordan got better separation when he faded away and didn't have to pump-fake 2-3 times like you see Kobe do often.

Exactly, and MJ had way better offensive awareness. He always made the right choice when the double came.

[andgar923]

Ita debateable unlike Lebrons post

Not as much as you think.

There's more to playing the post than having footwork.

A. Yes Kobe has 'comparable' footwork to MJ's
B. Yes Kobe has 'comparable' moves to MJ's

But he lacks several key attributes:

Court awareness
Decision making
Consistency

And that's not even including physical features in which that alone would put MJ over the edge if they were equals (which they're not).

MJ happens to be stronger, quicker, jump higher and has bigger hands which aid him.

MJ is also technically better and more consistent, he's also more versatile since he can go to either shoulder and finish with more consistency. And of course, there's the even more obvious fact that MJ gets better separation than Kobe ever has on a more consistent basis.

I guess one of the key words here is 'consistency' because YES Kobe can and has done some of these things (so have others btw), but he isn't as consistent as Mj has, specially when we compare 2nd 3peat MJ, who was almost automatic from the post and basically lived there.

But Kobe may arguably be the best perimeter post up player since MJ, I'll give him that. He is very 'similar' to MJ in his mechanics, footwork, balance.

[G-Funk]

I hate long replies...anyway I agree and dont agree with the things u said like court awarness and decsion making, Kobe is great in those aspects, he hardly creates turn overs from the post and usually finds the open guy and as far as consistency goes, its difficult for Kobe to contantly play in the post with 7 footers who live in the post, Im sure if he had bo offensive bigs u could very well run the offense through him down low.

[tikay0]

I hate long replies...anyway I agree and dont agree with the things u said like court awarness and decsion making, Kobe is great in those aspects, he hardly creates turn overs from the post and usually finds the open guy and as far as consistency goes, its difficult for Kobe to contantly play in the post with 7 footers who live in the post, Im sure if he had bo offensive bigs u could very well run the offense through him down low.

That falls under the decision making category. Maybe his team would be more successful if he'd actually feed his big men.

[G-Funk]

U also pointed out their physical differense, I agree that MJ is better physically but u cannot say Kobe is not fast, or strong he can and has posted way bigger players like Iggy, Lebron, Wade, Artest, Melo and Crash very effectivly. I dont understand how much stronger u need him to be.

[Dragonyeuw]

I hate long replies...anyway I agree and dont agree with the things u said like court awarness and decsion making, Kobe is great in those aspects, he hardly creates turn overs from the post and usually finds the open guy and as far as consistency goes, its difficult for Kobe to contantly play in the post with 7 footers who live in the post, Im sure if he had bo offensive bigs u could very well run the offense through him down low.

Andgar broke it down pretty well, especially with regards to the consistency aspect of it. You spoke to footwork, both of them had/have amazing footwork but why Kobe has to use 'more' footwork to get himself open to due to not having the natural athletic advantages that Jordan had. MJ could back you down a few times, fake one way and then jump back 10 feet off one foot, basically un-guardable. In simple terms, he needed to do less to get off a good shot, so perhaps it looks more basic but he was every bit capable of using 'fancy' footwork depending on the situation.

[G-Funk]

That falls under the decision making category. Maybe his team would be more successful if he'd actually feed his big men.
U want him to feed his bigs from the post when the defense is zoning the paint?

[9erempiree]

Kobe's post game is better than Jordan's because it's more versatile and he can get to the basket with his post game. Kobe's post game is like a bigs. MJ's post game only resulted in a jumper or fade away.

As many of you on ISH know that Kobe highlights come up often and many times these dunks you see him put on people are from the post.

A recent memory is Kobe destroying Crawford in the post for a dunk. Last night he almost got one off the post as well. Kobe's post game allows him to get to the basket where MJ was purely to get his fade and jumper on.

Two different styles by 2 great players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8qMjaEqRM

[G-Funk]

Hey Dragon the concensus is that Hakeem was the better post player than Shaq, same point were making, Shaq didnt need all of Hakeems post moves because he was physically better but it still does not take Hakeems title.

[tikay0]

U want him to feed his bigs from the post when the defense is zoning the paint?

Then make your outside shots. Oh that's right, he'd rather look cool for the cameras, and do a 360 fade away bank shot.

[Dragonyeuw]

Hey Dragon the concensus is that Hakeem was the better post player than Shaq, same point were making, Shaq didnt need all of Hakeems post moves because he was physically better but it still does not take Hakeems title.

That's not a good comparison. Shaq and Hakeem were completely different players in terms of post-game, one relying far more on brute force while one relied purely on skill,fundamentals, footwork. There's alot of similarities, at least visually and stylistically, between MJ and Kobe's postgames.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe's post game is better than Jordan's because it's more versatile and he can get to the basket with his post game. Kobe's post game is like a bigs. MJ's post game only resulted in a jumper or fade away.

As many of you on ISH know that Kobe highlights come up often and many times these dunks you see him put on people are from the post.
Two different styles by 2 great players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8qMjaEqRM

Nearly 20 minutes of footage in the OP, with VIDEO EVIDENCE of Jordan using his postgame to get to the basket, and you're seriously going to make that claim?

Case in point, look at the move he uses against the Lakers at 2:30. That's a move that we've since seen from Kobe, but you're going to say that Jordan's post-game didn't allow him to get to the basket?!


"A recent memory is Kobe destroying Crawford in the post for a dunk. Last night he almost got one off the post as well. [B] Kobe's post game allows him to get to the basket where MJ was purely to get his fade and jumper on."

You mean like what Jordan did at 2:43? Seriously....

[pegasus]

Jordan is the GOAT and my all time favorite player but I gotta give it to Kobe for having the better post moves and foot work.

[9erempiree]

Nearly 20 minutes of footage in the OP, with VIDEO EVIDENCE of Jordan using his postgame to get to the basket, and you're seriously going to make that claim?

Case in point, look at the move he uses against the Lakers at 2:30. That's a move that we've since seen from Kobe, but you're going to say that Jordan's post-game didn't allow him to get to the basket?!

Let's be honest here, nobody has said he never gets to the basket with it but he doesn't use his post game to specifically do that.

Why do you think people say his fade and turnaround jumpers were automatic?...because that was his freaking bread and butter. His post game that led him to that fade.

Kobe doesn't rely on that fade like MJ. If you watch his game just last night and the night before he was abusing the post inside and out.

Remember when he got those double assist nights in the post? He is better and more versatile than MJ in the post.

I consider MJ the best player ever but let's not say he's head and shoulders above everyone in every category. It gets pathetic.

[G-Funk]

That's not a good comparison. Shaq and Hakeem were completely different players in terms of post-game, one relying far more on brute force while one relied purely on skill,fundamentals, footwork. There's alot of similarities, at least visually and stylistically, between MJ and Kobe's postgames.
U, did not get my point, Hakeem needed his post moves to his advantage for the lack of size and strengh, just like In this case u say Kobe is lacking "natural athletic advantages"

[ThunderStruk022]

Kobe's post game is better than Jordan's because it's more versatile and he can get to the basket with his post game. Kobe's post game is like a bigs. MJ's post game only resulted in a jumper or fade away.

As many of you on ISH know that Kobe highlights come up often and many times these dunks you see him put on people are from the post.

A recent memory is Kobe destroying Crawford in the post for a dunk. Last night he almost got one off the post as well. Kobe's post game allows him to get to the basket where MJ was purely to get his fade and jumper on.

Two different styles by 2 great players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ8qMjaEqRM
:oldlol:

It's funny because you still post like people value your opinion or give a shit what you say.

[9erempiree]

:oldlol:

It's funny because you still post like people value your opinion or give a shit what you say.

thanks for caring.

:oldlol:

idiot.:facepalm

[Dragonyeuw]

U, did not get my point, Hakeem needed his post moves to his advantage for the lack of size and strengh, just like In this case u say Kobe is lacking "natural athletic advantages"

You missed the point that Jordan and Kobe have very similar post-games, whereas Shaq and Hakeem do not.

[G-Funk]

Then make your outside shots. Oh that's right, he'd rather look cool for the cameras, and do a 360 fade away bank shot.
Huh?

[CeltsGarlic]

Very interesting video, repd. Myself, as a guard who loves to post up, I saved this video for future studying ,l like I did with a lot of Hakeems videos. One thing that was clear from the start, that MJ rarely overdribbles as he has an amazing court awareness. Never seen anybody use the space he has to operate that effectively. MJ killed the guys mostly with smart first step and strong finishing moves after picking up the rock, Hakeem on the other hand had great moves while keeping dribbling the ball.

Just stating the obvious now: his fadeaway is a masterpiece.

[Dragonyeuw]

Let's be honest here, nobody has said he never gets to the basket with it but he doesn't use his post game to specifically do that.



I'm pointing out what you said, that Kobe can use his postgame to get to the basket where Jordan's post-game only resulted in fadeaways and jumpers. So in a sense, that's exactly what your earlier comment alluded to whether you meant it to or not.

[G-Funk]

You missed the point that Jordan and Kobe have very similar post-games, whereas Shaq and Hakeem do not. Shaq n Hakeem dont have similiar post games because Hakeem lacked size and strengh.

Fact is both Hakeem n Kobe had/have to do more in the post because both lacked "natural athletic advantages"

[tikay0]

Huh?

To break down a zone, you need to have a good perimeter jumper, or get people into position to make their shots. Kobe doesn't have consistency on his jumper nor the play making abilities of Jordan.

Jordan made zones looks like child's play. Jordan was just better at everything than Kobe.

[Dragonyeuw]

Shaq n Hakeem dont have similiar post games because Hakeem lacked size and strengh.

Fact is both Hakeem n Kobe had/have to to do more in the post because both lacked "natural athletic advantages"

Except Hakeem was one of the most athletic and graceful bigmen to play the game. The point remains, using Shaq and Hakeem as an analogy for Jordan and Kobe in the post fails at the most basic level of logic because the former two don't have similar post-games to begin with. Jordan and Kobe have similar bodies and physical traits, and similar stylistically in the post. Yes Jordan was overall the more explosive athlete but going by your logic, he physically overwhelmed guys in the post( I'm assuming that's where your Shaq comment comes in) but he didn't. His post ability was as much a product of skill and fundamentals as Kobe is.

[tikay0]

Except Hakeem was one of the most athletic and graceful bigmen to play the game. The point remains, using Shaq and Hakeem as an analogy for Jordan and Kobe in the post fails at the most basic level of logic because the former two don't have similar post-games to begin with. Jordan and Kobe have similar bodies and physical traits, and similar stylistically in the post. Yes Jordan was overall the more explosive athlete but going by your logic, he physically overwhelmed guys in the post( I'm assuming that's where your Shaq comment comes in) but he didn't. His post ability was as much a product of skill and fundamentals as Kobe is.

You broke it down. :cheers:

[9erempiree]

To break down a zone, you need to have a good perimeter jumper, or get people into position to make their shots. Kobe doesn't have consistency on his jumper nor the play making abilities of Jordan.

Jordan made zones looks like child's play. Jordan was just better at everything than Kobe.

ROFL :oldlol:

Traditional Zones didn't exist back then. It would be called illegal defense and if you get two of those, it becomes a free throw.

LOL @ MJ breaking down zones.

[G-Funk]

To break down a zone, you need to have a good perimeter jumper, or get people into position to make their shots. Kobe doesn't have consistency on his jumper nor the play making abilities of Jordan.

Jordan made zones looks like child's play. Jordan was just better at everything than Kobe.
Dude, the zone defense was implented in 01.

[tikay0]

Dude, the zone defense was implented in 01.

Jordan was the zone buster. Now a days big men aren't allowed to camp. So it's much easier for guards to penetrate. You don't have a Dikembe or Ewing down there, contesting all your shots.

Watch the video. The Bulls and the Knicks are playing the zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA

[G-Funk]

You broke it down. :cheers:
I wouldnt feel to good about this guy cheering me on, on this topic

[9erempiree]

Jordan was the zone buster.

:facepalm

ish has some dumb posters.

[9erempiree]

I wouldnt feel to good about this guy cheering me on, on this topic

ive been wanting him to stay out of my threads.

[G-Funk]

Jordan was the zone buster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA
Ok

[Dro]

Nearly 20 minutes of footage in the OP, with VIDEO EVIDENCE of Jordan using his postgame to get to the basket, and you're seriously going to make that claim?

Case in point, look at the move he uses against the Lakers at 2:30. That's a move that we've since seen from Kobe, but you're going to say that Jordan's post-game didn't allow him to get to the basket?!


"A recent memory is Kobe destroying Crawford in the post for a dunk. Last night he almost got one off the post as well. [B] Kobe's post game allows him to get to the basket where MJ was purely to get his fade and jumper on."

You mean like what Jordan did at 2:43? Seriously....
Ignore him...Thats why I have him on ignore..he's a ridiculous Kobe stan and nothing he says should be taken seriously...

[tikay0]

ROFL :oldlol:

Traditional Zones didn't exist back then. It would be called illegal defense and if you get two of those, it becomes a free throw.

LOL @ MJ breaking down zones.

:oldlol: @ "traditional" zones didn't exist back then. How is something that was just created, due to the Shaq rules, traditional??? :facepalm

Now a days, big men can't protect the paint like back then. The zone of today's era was created to nullify that rule change.

[9erempiree]

Jordan was the zone buster. Now a days big men aren't allowed to camp. So it's much easier for guards to penetrate. You don't have a Dikembe or Ewing down there, contesting all your shots.

Watch the video. The Bulls and the Knicks are playing the zone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6_GgXXR4vA

That is not a zone kid.

Who was zoning?

[tikay0]

I wouldnt feel to good about this guy cheering me on, on this topic

You're getting schooled by literally every poster you're arguing with. You even said zones weren't created until 2001...... :facepalm

You're Kobe trolling has failed. Move onto the next thread to troll.

[tikay0]

That is not a zone kid.

Who was zoning?


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

ISH posters don't know shit about basketball......WOW!

What is zone defense? The OPPOSITE of man to man defense. Where each player is allotted a certain area of the court.

What in the Hell do you think that video was showing??? :facepalm

:biggums: :wtf:

YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BASKETBALL KID.

[9erempiree]

:oldlol: @ "traditional" zones didn't exist back then. How is something that was just created, due to the Shaq rules, traditional??? :facepalm

Now a days, big men can't protect the paint like back then. The zone of today's era was created to nullify that rule change.

You don't know what a zone is do you?

Can't protect the paint? :facepalm

Why do you think you have to shoot over a zone to beat them.....because people are camping there.

[tikay0]

That is not a zone kid.

Who was zoning?

That's a 3-2 zone. 2 men protecting the paint, and 3 up top. In actuallity that's called the Jordan stopper. 3 guys up top, exclusively on Jordan, and 2 guys down, protecting the paint.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Learn basketball KID.

[tikay0]

You don't know what a zone is do you?

Can't protect the paint? :facepalm

Why do you think you have to shoot over a zone to beat them.....because people are camping there.

:facepalm The "traditional" zone, as you'd like to call it, was only implemented because of the Shaq rules. Big men aren't allowed to camp anymore, thus allowing 3 bigs down, for a certain period of time.

You act like basketball teams haven't implemented that during Jordan's days. :facepalm

[9erempiree]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

ISH posters don't know shit about basketball......WOW!

What is zone defense? The OPPOSITE of man to man defense. Where each player is allotted a certain area of the court.

What in the Hell do you think that video was showing??? :facepalm

:biggums: :wtf:

YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BASKETBALL KID.

Let me ask you again, who was zoning in that video?

They have to cover their men and cannot wander off unless the ball handler is within their area.

[tikay0]

In Jordan's day, Alonzo Mourning could camp down at the rim all day long, and get away with it. Now a days, that's a 3 second violation. Hence, why guards have it MUCH easier in terms of success at the rim.

You're basically hand cuffing rim protection.

[G-Funk]

You're getting schooled by literally every poster you're arguing with. You even said zones weren't created until 2001...... :facepalm

You're Kobe trolling has failed. Move onto the next thread to troll.
Ok:rolleyes:

[9erempiree]

That's a 3-2 zone. 2 men protecting the paint, and 3 up top. In actuallity that's called the Jordan stopper. 3 guys up top, exclusively on Jordan, and 2 guys down, protecting the paint.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Learn basketball KID.

That's not a 3-2 zone.

The reason why it looks like it because the Bulls players are positioned there and the Knicks players have to cover them or it becomes an illegal defense.

If the Bulls' players ran to the corner and let MJ isolate on top of the key, you would probably think it's a 1-4 zone.:facepalm

That is a cherry picked video.

Sorry.

[tikay0]

Let me ask you again, who was zoning in that video?

They have to cover their men and cannot wander off unless the ball handler is within their area.

Of course they have to stick to their men AT SOME POINT. The main goal is to stay in their allotted area. If said player gets a little too far, then of course they'd have to stick with them.

3-2 is opposite of 2-3. They load up more on the perimeter than in the paint, since the big man doesn't have to move from the rim. Unlike in today's NBA.

So basically, you have a big camping down low, with another big, and you have 3 guys up top, containing penetration.

[G-Funk]

In Jordan's day, Alonzo Mourning could camp down at the rim all day long, and get away with it. Now a days, that's a 3 second violation. Hence, why guards have it MUCH easier in terms of success at the rim.

You're basically hand cuffing rim protection.
Yeah Alonzo would love to stay inside all day while the opposing center drains em all day:roll:

[tikay0]

That's not a 3-2 zone.

The reason why it looks like it because the Bulls players are positioned there and the Knicks players have to cover them or it becomes an illegal defense.

If the Bulls' players ran to the corner and let MJ isolate on top of the key, you would probably think it's a 1-4 zone.:facepalm

That is a cherry picked video.

Sorry.

You're right. How come zone defense was illegal back then?

Was it because big men were allowed to camp down low?

No, it wouldn't be a 1-4 zone. It would be called, "stop Jordan at all costs" zone. :facepalm

[tikay0]

Yeah Alonzo would love to stay inside all day while the opposing center drains em all day:roll:

Key word. ALLOWED. :roll:

:roll: @ you thinking Kobe's post game is better than MJ's.

[G-Funk]

I know it

[inclinerator]

what i noticed is he's quick as a cat in the post

[lefthook00]

Not as much as you think.

There's more to playing the post than having footwork.

A. Yes Kobe has 'comparable' footwork to MJ's
B. Yes Kobe has 'comparable' moves to MJ's

But he lacks several key attributes:

Court awareness
Decision making
Consistency

And that's not even including physical features in which that alone would put MJ over the edge if they were equals (which they're not).

MJ happens to be stronger, quicker, jump higher and has bigger hands which aid him.

MJ is also technically better and more consistent, he's also more versatile since he can go to either shoulder and finish with more consistency. And of course, there's the even more obvious fact that MJ gets better separation than Kobe ever has on a more consistent basis.

I guess one of the key words here is 'consistency' because YES Kobe can and has done some of these things (so have others btw), but he isn't as consistent as Mj has, specially when we compare 2nd 3peat MJ, who was almost automatic from the post and basically lived there.

But Kobe may arguably be the best perimeter post up player since MJ, I'll give him that. He is very 'similar' to MJ in his mechanics, footwork, balance.

Pretty much agree with this but I don't think MJ was really more versatile in terms of moves, I see Kobe using his other shoulder more, and shooting off his back foot/shoulders not squared towards basket(Dirk) more, and his left hand is is better than MJ's.

Honestly, I see Kobe doing everything that MJ did, and I see him doing things that MJ didn't do, Kobe obviously developed his post game upon MJ's, and added a couple moves as well. Of course I'm not saying that Kobe is better than MJ in the post, everything Kobe does in the post is slower and less powerful than MJ, but I just think it's realistic to say that Kobe has put together some extra moves beyond MJ's variations, considering how much Kobe studies the game, and how long it's been since MJ's time. Now you can say that MJ didn't need to do as much because he was more effective, but I think Kobe actually loves practicing stringing together elaborate moves over and over in practice and showing them off in the game.

The problem is, is that MJ is physically superior and his bball IQ is higher, so Kobe obviously isn't as effective. What makes the athletic & IQ gap seem even bigger than it actually is, is that Kobe likes to take his time, stop and pause, make sure that he is FULLY iso'd before he busts a move, and makes it a 1v1 show. This slows down the whole game for everyone, gives the defense time to set, and gives Kobe less options in terms of passing out of the post, lanes to the basket, and scrambling against double teams, etc. LIke Swoosh(or Indian Guy?) says, MJ is more of a quick-strike player, once he catches the ball he's already in action.

[DonDadda59]

- Reading the defense and timely decision making. If the double is coming, he can fade on the baseline to negate it. There's also quite a few plays where he sees the double team coming and spins baseline quickly to evade the double team and of course, a few plays where he'll split the double


That's the godly basketball IQ on display right there. Most guys let the defense dictate how they are going to play. Jordan cut them off mid sentence before they could execute what they wanted to do. If the center came to the middle to double, as soon as MJ read it, he was going baseline to avoid it. If the pressure was coming from the baseline, he'd execute moves towards the middle or employ the fadeaway to neutralize it.

Most players wait for the defense to set, then they try to decide how to attack. Jordan stayed a step ahead of the D.

[AirFederer]

Spin move into pump fake, banker off glass is by far my favorite move of his.

Or the spin move as the double comes, and dunk.

Agreed, love the fakes! :cheers:

[tikay0]

That's the godly basketball IQ on display right there. Most guys let the defense dictate how they are going to play. Jordan cut them off mid sentence before they could execute what they wanted to do. If the center came to the middle to double, as soon as MJ read it, he was going baseline to avoid it. If the pressure was coming from the baseline, he'd execute moves towards the middle or employ the fadeaway to neutralize it.

Most players wait for the defense to set, then they try to decide how to attack. Jordan stayed a step ahead of the D.

Spot on playa. :cheers:

[lefthook00]

Watching the OP vid again, damn MJ was STUPID fast...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0Jjl9_ZDY4
Favorite MJ vid of all time, 1997 playoffs, good music, my favorite version of MJ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3WLup0ithY&list=UUdKwMDsZWiw5V-lXF3zWdRw&index=4
There's one of 1996 playoffs, he's even faster here, still not as fast as first 3peat MJ but just as unstoppable.

[PHILA]

effortless
Yes indeed. Only Big O made it look more effortless. In the clip below, Wali Jones (an aggressive in your face defender ala Payton) is completely helpless on the baseline against Oscar, who makes it look as if he isn't even there.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aECiYcdvIE&t=3m40s

[diamenz]

jordan's decision making was unrivaled and still is. his ability to make something out of nothing is just fascinating.

why can't you kobe trolls just enjoy the video instead of wiping your sh!t off of kobe's d1ck.

[Rasheed1]

Alot of those are the same move, but it is ridiculously fluid. He chains his moves together so smoothly, that fadeaway is almost impossible to stop. That is a killer move. Then when he starts going up and under too? you're f*cked then. forget about stopping him

[ProfessorMurder]

So crazy how he used the defense against itself. He knew where everyone was and used their rotations and help to his advantage.

[G-Funk]

So crazy how he used the defense against itself. He knew where everyone was and used their rotations and help to his advantage.
Yup

[Round Mound]

The separation and body control is amazing. :bowdown:

GOAT perimeter post player.

Decision making is also off the charts. The split second moves he makes, right before the double comes is woah.

LMAO at Shaq trying to double on MJ. Dude got left in the dust.

That level of post dominance is only matched by Hakeem, McHale, and Shaq. The thing that separates MJ from them is, the way he can pass out of doubles.

And You For Sir Charles and Wilt ofcourse....And No "THE ZONE BUSTER" was a Term Given to Sir Charles Before MJ

[KOBE143]

In the Post

Kobe=Hakeem > MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BronBron

Kobe is the Hakeem Olajuwon of SG..

[Round Mound]

In the Post

Kobe=Hakeem > MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BronBron

Kobe is the Hakeem Olajuwon of SG..

:roll:

[tikay0]

And You For Sir Charles and Wilt ofcourse....And No "THE ZONE BUSTER" was a Term Given to Sir Charles Before MJ

True. Barkley had some deadly spin moves in the paint. I love the way he'd spin out, then give a little bump, and do the double pump layup with 2 hands.

One of the most aesthetically pleasing moves in the paint. Basic, and brutal, yet so effective.

[Round Mound]

True. Barkley had some deadly spin moves in the paint. I love the way he'd spin out, then give a little bump, and do the double pump layup with 2 hands.

One of the most aesthetically pleasing moves in the paint. Basic, and brutal, yet so effective.

Very Few People Know It But Shaq and Barkley Where The Most Frequent Scorers Inside the 3-Point Line. No Other 20 PPG Scorers Shot Over 58% FG Inside the 3-Point While as Doubled and Tripled But The Shaqtus and Sir Charles. :bowdown:

Yes, Barkley Was Called "The Zone Buster" and Was the Only Player Along MJ (never seen that ever again) that Was Doubled and Tripled 12-15 Away from the Rim. Charles Created More Ilegal Defenses than Any Player in His Era Because He Was Guard Like 1 on 1, SF Like On the Break, A Dominant Offensive PF in the Post and Was as Strong as Any 7ft Center in th Paint, Any!

And Please Kids Trying to Force that Kobe Was as Good as MJ in the Post? :facepalm :rolleyes: Get F-Real. Kobe Was a Better Pure Shooter than MJ From Far Range, Other That, He Has Nothing On Being a Better Player Than Michael.

[hkfosho]

MJ is better than Kobe and Lebron

next

[Dragonyeuw]

-Honestly, I see Kobe doing everything that MJ did, and I see him doing things that MJ didn't do, Kobe obviously developed his post game upon MJ's, and added a couple moves as well. Of course I'm not saying that Kobe is better than MJ in the post, everything Kobe does in the post is slower and less powerful than MJ, but I just think it's realistic to say that Kobe has put together some extra moves beyond MJ's variations, considering how much Kobe studies the game, and how long it's been since MJ's time. Now you can say that MJ didn't need to do as much because he was more effective, but I think Kobe actually loves practicing stringing together elaborate moves over and over in practice and showing them off in the game.



There's a few things that I've seen certain players do that Jordan did, or never did at all. What makes Jordan so good in the post was the consistency,ability to immediately read what the defense was doing, the quick-strike moves, movement that was purposeful and efficient....... not the ability to string together an elaborate series of never-before-seen moves( a few of which probably weren't necessary if you act proactively to the defense as opposed to re-actively).

[andgar923]

Alot of those are the same move, but it is ridiculously fluid. He chains his moves together so smoothly, that fadeaway is almost impossible to stop. That is a killer move. Then when he starts going up and under too? you're f*cked then. forget about stopping him

Which is what Kenny Smith is always harping about when it comes to MJ. He's always saying how MJ was the most fundamental great athlete of all time ( by athlete I don't mean pro player, but great athlete). He's always talking about MJ's use of perfectly fundamental footwork, hand location, movements etc.etc.

[G-Funk]

Kobe can score and pass at will from the post as much as MJ did and some, his arsenal is bigger

[andgar923]

Kobe can score and pass at will from the post as much as MJ did and some, his arsenal is bigger
Keep believing that.

You do understand that MJ made his living down there in the later part of his career right?

It wasn't that he did it for only a couple possessions, but for a large part. And this was in an era that was dominated by big men that controlled the paint.

And NO Kobe can't do this "at will". Seen too many bad shots taken, too many turnovers compiled by Kobe.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe can score and pass at will from the post as much as MJ did and some, his arsenal is bigger

What does he do specifically in the post that Jordan never did? I'm not making an argument one way or the other, but you're making a lot of vague statements with little backing it up.

[Greg Oden 50]

In the Post

Kobe=Hakeem > MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BronBron

Kobe is the Hakeem Olajuwon of SG..
:facepalm

[gengiskhan]

Do you consider SF's perimeter players though?

I do actually.

I consider following positions PERIMETER: SG, PG, SF & 2 Guards.

I know you where you're going with this.

& I love Larry Bird too. He was just unstoppable force of nature in PERIMTER Post.

[G-Funk]

Keep believing that.

You do understand that MJ made his living down there in the later part of his career right?

It wasn't that he did it for only a couple possessions, but for a large part. And this was in an era that was dominated by big men that controlled the paint.

And NO Kobe can't do this "at will". Seen too many bad shots taken, too many turnovers compiled by Kobe.
Lol

[Rasheed1]

Which is what Kenny Smith is always harping about when it comes to MJ. He's always saying how MJ was the most fundamental great athlete of all time ( by athlete I don't mean pro player, but great athlete). He's always talking about MJ's use of perfectly fundamental footwork, hand location, movements etc.etc.


And you know what else is incredible to watch? (I think u mentioned this earlier) Mj goes down on the baseline and draws 3 guys to him and he still has the court vision and awareness to get the ball across the court to the opposite wing to the open man for the easy shot. When a teammate cuts to the hoop? Mj has the pass ready to hit him for the easy layup, even while chaining together 5, 6 post moves with 3 guys running at him.

Very few players have ever had that command over the game

[gengiskhan]

Kobe can score and pass at will from the post as much as MJ did and some, his arsenal is bigger

Not true at all. Its just a wishful thinking. Kobe's PERIMETER post game is PRE-MEDITATED.

One can clearly predict its 3-4 dribbles & he'll turn around & JOCK one up, an difficult fadeaway.

80-90% of the PERIMETER post kobe will take a turn around fadeaway jump shot. Another

20-10% of the PERIMETER post Kobe will kick it out to TOP OF THE KEY.

I've seen that way too many times. Kobe is actually a poor passer off the PERIMETER post area.

hence, the reason why he shoots a lot more PREMEDITATED fadeaways.

[gengiskhan]

Which is what Kenny Smith is always harping about when it comes to MJ. He's always saying how MJ was the most fundamental great athlete of all time ( by athlete I don't mean pro player, but great athlete). He's always talking about MJ's use of perfectly fundamental footwork, hand location, movements etc.etc.

BULLS EYE.

something I've noticed too. MJ's FUNDAMENTALS are ROCK SOLID & then you add SUPER HUMAN skills to a perfect compact 6' 5" figure & bless him with 7'3" centers EXTRA LARGE HANDS.

ITS JUST TOO MUCH & UNFAIR.

& exactly, this is what happened. MJ's ROCK SOLID FUNDAMENTALS is what differentiates him from LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Drexle etc etc.

The only Top 10 GOAT that comes close to MJ is probably Big O.

[gengiskhan]

In the Post

Kobe=Hakeem > MJ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BronBron

Kobe is the Hakeem Olajuwon of SG..

This is the reason why Kobe has so much HATE on ISH.

The reason is not Kobe but the LAL fans & Kobe'tards.

think about what you just said.

If Kobe is equal to Hakeem in Post, why does kobe goes to Hakeem in Houston & take lessons in summer to better his post game?

ever put 2 & 2 together.

[(e)]

How many times did we see Jordan spin away or avoid the double team as the guy was trying to get to him? This video shows a lot of that, and it's still a thing of beauty. His awareness and reaction on the court is still untouched.

[Asukal]

Kobe stans always has to put up his name in an MJ vid thread, insecure little fvcks. :roll:

Jordan is better in the post because of these things:
- better IQ
- better athleticism
- more consistent

Did you know Kobe once asked MJ how does he read the defense?

[upside24]

8:28

Hand down. Man down.