Colin Cowherd "Wade is better than Pippen"

[Dro]

He just said this on his show...Agree or disagree? He's comparing the 72 win Bulls to this year's Heat team...

[TylerOO]

Definitely.

[Teanett]

they're both pretty good. maybe he's right.

[plowking]

Yes. Way better. Its unquestionable.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Well lets see....

One player had the best Finals series in NBA history. Leading a team of role players and a past-prime Shaq to a title without HCA.

The other one didn't do that.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He just said this on his show...Agree or disagree? He's comparing the 72 win Bulls to this year's Heat team...

Pippen for the most part is very underrated. Overrated if you are debating with 97 bulls :oldlol: But Wade is a franchise player and he proved it already by leading Miami to a title.

[guy]

Pippen for the most part is very underrated. Overrated if you are debating with 97 bulls :oldlol: But Wade is a franchise player and he proved it already by leading Miami to a title.

He's not underrated at all anymore. People have been pointing out for years how underrated Scottie Pippen is to the point that he's been overrated.

With that said, if we're talking about 96 Pippen vs. 13 Wade, I'd probably take Pippen at least due to the fact that I feel at this point of Wade's career, its pretty much a given that he can at anytime be limited by some injury. Feels like its happened at some point of the year every year since that 06 title. At full strength though, like right now, I'd say he's better then Pippen, but I'd rather have Pippen if I have Jordan, and I'd rather have Wade if I have Lebron because they are better complements for them.

[Papaya Petee]

:roll: thanks captain obvious. Wade shits on Pippen.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

:roll: thanks captain obvious. Wade shits on Pippen.
this.

[Whoah10115]

It's hardly as great a disparity as people are suggesting.


And Wade isn't having a better season than Pippen had in 95/96.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Save for Wade's rookie year (and '08, where he missed half the season), dude has ALWAYS been the better player. It's not all that close either.

What "guy" said is true, though. Depending on the teams makeup, you may want to go w/ Scottie and vice versa.

[Papaya Petee]

It's hardly as great a disparity as people are suggesting.


And Wade isn't having a better season than Pippen had in 95/96.

Yes he is. If not for the rough start because of his knee this wouldn't even be a discussion. The past 3 months Wade's been a monster, playing at a level that Pippen just couldn't do.

[Whoah10115]

Yes he is. If not for the rough start because of his knee this wouldn't even be a discussion. The past 3 months Wade's been a monster, playing at a level that Pippen just couldn't do.


Yea, no. Pippen was a top 3 player during the two years Jordan was gone and those seasons were absolutely better than what Wade has been this season.


Wade is not one of the 4 best guards of the season.

[Scholar]

He's not underrated at all anymore. People have been pointing out for years how underrated Scottie Pippen is to the point that he's been overrated.

With that said, if we're talking about 96 Pippen vs. 13 Wade, I'd probably take Pippen at least due to the fact that I feel at this point of Wade's career, its pretty much a given that he can at anytime be limited by some injury. Feels like its happened at some point of the year every year since that 06 title. At full strength though, like right now, I'd say he's better then Pippen, but I'd rather have Pippen if I have Jordan, and I'd rather have Wade if I have Lebron because they are better complements for them.

Valid points. I'd argue that Wade is closer to Jordan in playstyle than Pippen, but I'm sure this is more a comparison of "sidekicks" than overall game.

[imnew09]

Miami fans all came to this thread.

[BlackVVaves]

Well lets see....

One player had the best Finals series in NBA history. Leading a team of role players and a past-prime Shaq to a title without HCA.

The other one didn't do that.

That would be Shaq in the 2000 Finals, not Wade. You can't be serious.

[unbreakable]

wade is riding lebrons jock the entire regular season and playoffs.. pippen was a damn good soldier and one of the best players of all time.. top 20 easy.

kobe, shaq, kareem, magic, bird, mj are all top 20 players.. theres no reason why pippen shouldnt be right there with them.. no reason at all.

6 rings as the anchor on defense and primary playmaker/facilitator :bowdown:

[Dbrog]

mmmm its debatable. Very different players asked to do different things. I think Pippen has a larger effect on the game and doesn't need the ball to dominate. However, he couldn't take over the way that Wade can offensively. I would probably lean towards Wade...but it's close.

[KenneBell]

This is some type of revelation? :oldlol:

[crisoner]

Not on the defensive end.

Wade takes plays off on defense.

[RapsFan]

I suspect most people never watched Pippen play outside of a few late years with the Blazers perhaps. Classic case of choosing what we see in front of us currently.

[MMM]

In a secondary role I would take Pippen because his game complimentary to a #1. His well rounded game makes hip perfect for that 1b - 2 role. As the man we really didn't get to see enough of him to make a fair comparison to Wade in the same role.

[Teanett]

'96 pippen vs '13 wade?

i'd take '96 pippen.

[LikeABosh]

'96 pippen vs '13 wade?

i'd take '96 pippen.
08-09' Wade and 06' playoffs shits on anything Pippen has done

[TheMan]

There could be a debate, Wade is obviously the bwtter scorer but you can argue Pippen is more well rounded and better suited for the "side kick role" when teamed up to an MJ for example.

MJ + Pip shits on Mj + Wade

But you guys should'nt take what Cowherd says seriously, I mean, this is the retard who argued that he would take Mark Sanchez over Aaron Rodgers for fvcks sake, a talent evaluator he certainly is not.

[Whoah10115]

All seriousness the amount of LeBron and Heat fans who whine about everything is incredibly annoying. The Kobe stans are at least funny and certifiable. Shit. Nothing like people who don't know shit talking shit. It's awesome.

[arifgokcen]

As many said as a secondary option pippen is better but if you want a franchise player wade is definitely the one.He is much better offensive player.He can put a team on his back and carry them to playoffs and beyond.

[MMM]

08-09' Wade and 06' playoffs shits on anything Pippen has done

Peak Pippen never really got a chance to put up great numbers on bad teams though like some of the modern wing players have. And I would not really hold that against him. Wade's 06 run was phenomenal but the overall body of work is still in Pip favour as of now.

[Teanett]

08-09' Wade and 06' playoffs shits on anything Pippen has done

72 and 10, baby!

[Sarcastic]

Wade is much better than Pippen, and Bosh is much better than Horace Grant.

[Teanett]

As many said as a secondary option pippen is better but if you want a franchise player wade is definitely the one.He is much better offensive player.He can put a team on his back and carry them to playoffs and beyond.

pippen put the bulls on his back in 94 and went deep into the playoffs.

[clayton]

Who knew!?!?

[LikeABosh]

72 and 10, baby!
It's a team sport

[Teanett]

It's a team sport

exactly!
thanks for proving my point.

[Whoah10115]

Bosh is just a jumpshooter for Miami. He's better than Grant but not by much, on this team.

[bagelred]

Wade is a better scorer...I think that's clear. Pippen is a better defender...I think that's clear too.

[LikeABosh]

exactly!
thanks for proving my point.
That means that what the Bulls did by going 72-10 is a sentiment to how good the team was at a whole. It doesn't make Pippen better than Wade just because he was part of that team

[SilkkTheShocker]

All seriousness the amount of LeBron and Heat fans who whine about everything is incredibly annoying. The Kobe stans are at least funny and certifiable. Shit. Nothing like people who don't know shit talking shit. It's awesome.

Hilarious coming from you. We can make a sticky thread for all the ignorant things you say :oldlol:

[jlip]

I didn't read any of the posts in this thread. So I don't know if I'm repeating anything that's already been included, but it would not be a crime to say that Wade is a better player than Pippen was. Having said that, I feel that Pippen was a far better compliment and fit for Jordan's game than Wade is for Lebron's game.

[f0und]

pippen put the bulls on his back in 94 and went deep into the playoffs.

pippen made it to the second round. thats it. wade did that in his rookie year.

[Teanett]

pippen made it to the second round. thats it. wade did that in his rookie year.

did wade lead them further without shaq or bron?

[kenny817]

Miami fans all came to this thread.


Does not compute

[secund2nun]

I'll take Pippen over Wade. Obviously Wade is a far superior scorer, but Pippen is one of the most unique talents the game has seen so his.
After Shaq left, prime Wade failed to lead his team past the first round until Lebron joined up. That's like 4 seasons with no playoff wins?
Pippen on the other hand in his first season without MJ got to game 7 of the ECF semis and if not for a bad call would have been in the ECF
vs the Pacers in a winnable series. With that said Pippen had Phil Jackson while Wade has Spo which accounts for some of the difference..but still
that is enough for me to take Pippen over Wade.

Pippen is underrated because scoring is overrated.

[DMV2]

Wade's offense has more impact than Pippen's defense. That's not a knock on Pippen's defense, he's top 3 perimeter defender of all-time. But like Mark Jackson said, great offense over great defense. That's just how the NBA is and have been for the longest time, prob since the early 1980's.

People praised Pippen's 1994 season but the following season, the Bulls were only 2 games above .500 (34-32). It wasn't until Jordan's return in mid-March, that they went 13-4 and got 5th seed. That shows Pippen was not made to be a franchise player.

Wade was a franchise player, and was one for over 9 seasons.

[guy]

Pippen is underrated because scoring is overrated.

Just like people for years have been saying Pippen is underrated to the point that he's become overrated, people for years have been saying scoring is overrated to the point that its underrated.

[Patrick Chewing]

Pippen has always been a role player. I think Colin throws out these ridiculous assertions just to see where they land. Wade is a leader and led Miami out of mediocrity and has been doing that for nearly 10 years now.

[Papaya Petee]

Yea, no. Pippen was a top 3 player during the two years Jordan was gone and those seasons were absolutely better than what Wade has been this season.


Wade is not one of the 4 best guards of the season.


Okay? Wade was top 3 players in the NBA for like 5 seasons and arguably the best in 2005-2006 and 2008-2009, so what;s your point?

in 95-96 Pippen put up 19\7\6 on 47% shooting
Wade is putting up 22\5\5 on 52% shooting, and his numbers keep going up and up since his knee came back to form.

Were not comparing 2013 Wade to 93-95 Pippen. If you want to do that, pick any season from 04-05, 05-06, 06-07, 08-09, 09-10, 10-11, and they're all much better then Pippens seasons without Jordan.

[guy]

There could be a debate, Wade is obviously the bwtter scorer but you can argue Pippen is more well rounded and better suited for the "side kick role" when teamed up to an MJ for example.

MJ + Pip shits on Mj + Wade

But you guys should'nt take what Cowherd says seriously, I mean, this is the retard who argued that he would take Mark Sanchez over Aaron Rodgers for fvcks sake, a talent evaluator he certainly is not.

You can't be serious. Tell me this was at least before Rodgers took over for Favre.

Cowherd is the biggest undercover hater of Jordan out there. He's not completely blatant about his hate like how Skip hates on Lebron, but he's CONSTANTLY looking for every little thing to discredit Jordan and say someone like Kobe or Lebron is better or better at something. He's one of the biggest reasons why there's this myth and/or overexaggeration that Jordan wasn't at least as good of a defender as Lebron and that he wasn't even close to as complete of a player as Lebron. He even claims that Jordan didn't have a jumpshot early in his career.

[secund2nun]

Just like people for years have been saying Pippen is underrated to the point that he's become overrated, people for years have been saying scoring is overrated to the point that its underrated.

You could argue the pippen thing depending on your views of him (I still believe he is underrated), but scoring is outrageously overrated these days.
Now granted scoring on great effeciency is huge (like Wade does), but it is simply A important factor, not THE important factor.

Players like Rose and Melo show just how overrated scoring is. Likewise, their defensive/rebounded minded partners in Noah and Chandler are subsequently
underrated because of this while the low effeciency volume scores get overrated and supposedly "carry" their teams.

[PrettyCool]

You could argue the pippen thing depending on your views of him (I still believe he is underrated), but scoring is outrageously overrated these days.
Now granted scoring on great effeciency is huge (like Wade does), but it is simply A important factor, not THE important factor.

Players like Rose and Melo show just how overrated scoring is. Likewise, their defensive/rebounded minded partners in Noah and Chandler are subsequently
underrated because of this while the low effeciency volume scores get overrated and supposedly "carry" their teams.

You act like Wade isn't a great defender, facilitator, defender, and rebounder (for a guard) himself.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You can't be serious. Tell me this was at least before Rodgers took over for Favre.

Cowherd is the biggest undercover hater of Jordan out there. He's not completely blatant about his hate like how Skip hates on Lebron, but he's CONSTANTLY looking for every little thing to discredit Jordan and say someone like Kobe or Lebron is better or better at something. He's one of the biggest reasons why there's this myth and/or overexaggeration that Jordan wasn't at least as good of a defender as Lebron and that he wasn't even close to as complete of a player as Lebron. He even claims that Jordan didn't have a jumpshot early in his career.


Joradan won w/ legitimate bigs; Lebron didn't need any
Jordan never elevated his team, just himself

Just some more gems from Cowturd. Guy is a complete sensationalist.

[imdaman99]

dude, of course wade is better than pippen. many felt pip didnt belong on the top 50 players of all time. wade is already easily in top 50. if pippen is in, he is like from 45-50. wade is more like top 30

pippen was the perfect complimentary player to MJ though. im sure MJ wins more rings with pip being his #2 than wade. but that does NOT mean he is better.

[DonDadda59]

Pippen>>Wade defensively, but overall Wade is the better player.

[Jolokia]

:lol at people saying Pippen compliments Jordan better than Wade does. What's the point in that? Wade compliments Lebron better than Pippen does and Lebron compliments Wade better than Jordan. Lebron is better than Jordan? :eek:

We have a 27/8/7 on 56% player paired up with a 22/5/5 on 52% coming off knee surgery. Wade's been averaging almost 27/7/7 on 60% for the past 5 games and 25/6/6 on 58% the last 15. This 16 game winning streak says a lot about their greatness together and they are doing a lot of damage on defense.

[atljonesbro]

Wade is EASILY without ANY DOUBT better than Pippen. Pippen could ever even dream of doing what Wade did in 06. Sorry, if anyone actually thinks Scottie Pippen is better than Wade then please let go of your fu*king childhood.

[imdaman99]

:lol at people saying Pippen compliments Jordan better than Wade does. What's the point in that? Wade compliments Lebron better than Pippen does and Lebron compliments Wade better than Jordan. Lebron is better than Jordan? :eek:

We have a 27/8/7 on 56% player paired up with a 22/5/5 on 52% coming off knee surgery. Wade's been averaging almost 27/7/7 on 60% for the past 5 games and 25/6/6 on 58% the last 15. This 16 game winning streak says a lot about their greatness together and they are doing a lot of damage on defense.
How do you know that? Because of their 1 ring? You serious? When they have more than 3, we can start talking about who was better at what in their complementary roles. When I said Pip complemented MJ better than Wade would have, it was based on the fact that they won 6 championships together, but I still said Wade is better than Pippen.

[secund2nun]

You act like Wade isn't a great defender, facilitator, defender, and rebounder (for a guard) himself.

He is, which is why it's close either way. But so many people are just looking at their PPG and saying "Wade in a blowout" which comes back to how scoring is overrated.

[G-train]

Pippen is better than Wade.
I wouldn't even call Wade a better scorer.
He is not a better defender.

Prime Pippen isn't that far off Lebron James. And I'm a Heat fan.

[G-train]

Lets not forget prime Pip wasn't far off Jordan.
Some of you can't remember that or possibly weren't born.

[Poetry]

It's interesting to go back and read some of the opinions of the day:

"Look for Phoenix guard Dan Majerle, among others, to bang Pippen around physically, and look for the Suns' suddenly feisty point guard Kevin Johnson to get in Pippen's face a time or two. "It's no secret," says Bull coach Phil Jackson. "So goes Scottie Pippen, so goes Chicago." Nothing like a little pressure, eh, Pip?

The strategic rationale for getting tough, both physically and psychologically, with Pippen is this: Jordan must almost always be watched by two and, sometimes, three defenders. It is therefore impossible to double up on Pippen. But if one defender can shut him down, the Bulls might well go down too. But the underlying reason is this: Many teams still believe that when subjected to constant physical and mental duress, Pippen will crack like a walnut."

--Sports Illustrated

Today people also forget that Pippen could be quite petulant and resentful and he was sometimes seen as disrupting chemistry off the court.


"The ugliest of the recent losses was an 89-81 defeat at home by the Cavaliers in which Bull coach Phil Jackson started Toni Kukoc in Pippen's regular small forward spot and moved Pippen to shooting guard. Kukoc missed all nine of his shots, Pippen didn't much appreciate having to chase smaller, quicker guards on defense, and Jackson acknowledged that the experiment had "failed miserably."

Part of the Chicago Stadium crowd apparently agreed, because they booed the Bulls on occasion. The reaction didn't seem particularly directed at Pippen, but he took it personally. "I have been here seven years, and I have never seen a white guy get booed in the Stadium," he said after the game, apparently forgetting the harsh treatment white teammate Will Perdue has received from time to time. "It seems to be that when things go bad, and the ball is in your hands and you don't score, then the fans take over. But Toni was 0 for whatever tonight, and I never heard one fan get on him." After cooling off for a day, Pippen didn't exactly back away from his comments. "I pretty much apologize for it, to some extent." he said."

--Sports Illustrated

[bagelred]

Pippen has always been a role player.

Did you just call Scottie Pippen a role player? :oldlol: He's a 7 time All Star. He's far from a role player. Steve Kerr is a role player.

Pippen is one of the most unique talents this game has ever seen....but you have to give Wade the nod, because of his unbelievable scoring ability. But this is much closer than people are making it out to be......

[DonDadda59]

Pippen is better than Wade.
I wouldn't even call Wade a better scorer.
He is not a better defender.

Prime Pippen isn't that far off Lebron James. And I'm a Heat fan.

Gandalf passed you that pipe, didn't he? The shit wizards smoke is just a wee bit stronger than the usual. Be careful next time.

[DonDadda59]

Did you just call Scottie Pippen a role player? :oldlol: He's a 7 time All Star. He's far from a role player. Steve Kerr is a role player.

Pippen is one of the most unique talents this game has ever seen....but you have to give Wade the nod, because of his unbelievable scoring ability. But this is much closer than people are making it out to be......

Eh, not really. There's been plenty of player's with Pippen's skill set, what separates him is his defense. Unique talents= Shaq, Barkley, Lebron, Magic, Dirk/Durant.

[G-train]

Gandalf passed you that pipe, didn't he? The shit wizards smoke is just a wee bit stronger than the usual. Be careful next time.

Pippen would easily average 25 a game as a number option in todays game.

He'd go 25/8/6 on good percentages with the best defence of all time from the wing spot, and is about 6'8 with huge wing span and amazing athleticism.

Who does that today? One man. Lebron.


You guys are basketball babies. You have watched for a few years, maybe been into analytics a season or 2.
You never watched Pippen and Lebron live in their primes. You never analysed them live.
You caught the end of his career at the Rockets and then some his have some faint memories of watching him on the Blazers from ur daddys lap.

Pippen is an all time great. All time great. He was basically 6'8 Wade on offence, but his J was better. Not a strength, but better than Wade's.
His post game was much better.
His open court game rivaled Dr J. He was even a better ball handler than Wade.

I'm discussing a guy that I studied from his rookie season. Guys here haven't even seen him play a game for the Bulls.

[G-train]

Eh, not really. There's been plenty of player's with Pippen's skill set, what separates him is his defense. Unique talents= Shaq, Barkley, Lebron, Magic, Dirk/Durant.

Ok name me the 6'8 point guards that were unbelievable athletes and all time great defensive players guarding 1-3 and some 4.

Name them.

:coleman:

[bagelred]

Eh, not really. There's been plenty of player's with Pippen's skill set, what separates him is his defense. .

You couldn't be more wrong.

[97 bulls]

You can tell which people have the agenda and which are looking at this objectively.

The pro Wade camp

Pippen is a role player, a complimentary player, not a franchise player, etc.

The pro Pippen camp.

Wade is the better scorer, but Pippen is better at every other facet lf basketball. Both are great players but one is gonna impact the game in so many different ways.

The Wade camo has no credibility when they post the nonsense ive read in this thread.

[DonDadda59]

You never watched Pippen and Lebron live in their primes. You never analysed them live.
You caught the end of his career at the Rockets and then some his have some faint memories of watching him on the Blazers from ur daddys lap.


Yeah... no. I've seen both of their careers, Pippen is no Lebron James. Get out of here with that bullshit. Grant Hill before the injuries was closer to Lebron's league than Pip, and he wasn't close.

[97 bulls]

Okay? Wade was top 3 players in the NBA for like 5 seasons and arguably the best in 2005-2006 and 2008-2009, so what;s your point?

in 95-96 Pippen put up 19\7\6 on 47% shooting
Wade is putting up 22\5\5 on 52% shooting, and his numbers keep going up and up since his knee came back to form.

Were not comparing 2013 Wade to 93-95 Pippen. If you want to do that, pick any season from 04-05, 05-06, 06-07, 08-09, 09-10, 10-11, and they're all much better then Pippens seasons without Jordan.
How can you compare the two in this way? You obviously arent factoring in the offenses the Heat and Bulls used. The Heat try to get out in transitiion every chance they get. Which is gonna inflate percentages. The Bulls didnt run. Im positive if Pippen were in an open court offense, his stats would be much better.

And lets not forget that Pippen won. His alltime win % is top 5. And the only reason why most of the players that have a better win percentage is due to having a shortened career, or havnt completed their career yet.

Im convinced that most of these clowns would rather take a guy capable of 27 ppg on 50+ shooting, and a loss, than 20 ppg and championships. Sad.

[G-train]

Yeah... no. I've seen both of their careers, Pippen is no Lebron James. Get out of here with that bullshit. Grant Hill before the injuries was closer to Lebron's league than Pip, and he wasn't close.

Did I call him Lebron James?

I said only guy that could compare to Pip is Lebron James.

And that's a fact. You shook.

[97 bulls]

Yeah... no. I've seen both of their careers, Pippen is no Lebron James. Get out of here with that bullshit. Grant Hill before the injuries was closer to Lebron's league than Pip, and he wasn't close.
Oh come off it. Be glad theres no dominant centers in the league now. Wade would be nowhere near top 5 if there were a few more dominant centers in the league today.

[juju151111]

How can you compare the two in this way? You obviously arent factoring in the offenses the Heat and Bulls used. The Heat try to get out in transitiion every chance they get. Which is gonna inflate percentages. The Bulls didnt run. Im positive if Pippen were in an open court offense, his stats would be much better.

And lets not forget that Pippen won. His alltime win % is top 5. And the only reason why most of the players that have a better win percentage is due to having a shortened career, or havnt completed their career yet.

Im convinced that most of these clowns would rather take a guy capable of 27 ppg on 50+ shooting, and a loss, than 20 ppg and championships. Sad.
Wat are you talking about. Wade a 2 time champion and might be 3 time if LJ didn't completely choke vs Dallas.:facepalm

[juju151111]

Did I call him Lebron James?

I said only guy that could compare to Pip is Lebron James.

And that's a fact. You shook.
Pippen is nowhere close to LJ and Wade better then Pip.

[97 bulls]

Pippen>>Wade defensively, but overall Wade is the better player.
Lol what kind of ignorant crap is this? Does Wades scoring really make him a better overall player? Pippen is the better rebounder, passer, playmaker/running plays.


This doesnt come down to Wades ability to score vs Pippens ability to defend. But even if it did, Pippens regarded as the best perimeter defender ever. EVER. Wade is nowhere near the greatest perimeter scorer ever.

[pauk]

Pippen was a 20 point triple double machine with according to me the greatest perimeter defense ever and im sure he could have averaged more points if he wanted to... Wade in his prime/peak was probably somewhat better factually, at least by the stats... but Wade today? Nah...

[DonDadda59]

You couldn't be more wrong.

Ok, so explain to me what was so unique about Pippen's game.


Ok name me the 6'8 point guards that were unbelievable athletes and all time great defensive players guarding 1-3 and some 4.

Name them.

Like I said, what separates Pip from other guys was his defense but there have been plenty of guys who could do what he did in terms of being a point forward (a lot of them better)- Bron, Magic, Bird, Grant Hill, Penny, TMac, Odom, and even forgotten guys like Paul Pressey (who was an excellent defender).

There is nothing unique or rare about Pippen's skillset.

[2010splash]

I've read it all. As if suggesting that Pippen was even better than Wade wasn't enough, you go on to say that he's not that far off from LeBron? Heaven almighty... :roll: :roll:

Pippen was great, but there are two types of players in this game - dominant alpha males and the rest. The former will always be better players than the latter, no matter how "well-rounded" the latter are.

[97 bulls]

Wat are you talking about. Wade a 2 time champion and might be 3 time if LJ didn't completely choke vs Dallas.:facepalm
And Pippen has SIX. Never lost when his teams had homecourt, never lost in the Olympics. The whole idea behind sports is to WIN. Not put up the best stats then make excuses when you lose. Lebron James offense isnt what cost the Heat that title. It was their inability to stop Jason Terry and Jose Berea. Why didnt Wade step up and accept that challenge? Pippen did that many times during the Bulls run.

[97 bulls]

I've read it all. As if suggesting that Pippen was even better than Wade wasn't enough, you go on to say that he's not that far off from LeBron? Heaven almighty... :roll: :roll:

Pippen was great, but there are two types of players in this game - dominant alpha males and the rest. The former will always be better players than the latter, no matter how "well-rounded" the latter are.
Then why has Wade failed so many times as an Alpha Male? What Alpha Male willingly gives up his status?

[97 bulls]

Pippen was a 20 point triple double machine with according to me the greatest perimeter defense ever and im sure he could have averaged more points if he wanted to... Wade in his prime/peak was probably somewhat better factually, at least by the stats... but Wade today? Nah...
This is what it comes down to. Stats vs Results.

[Young X]

Why is this thread 6 pages? Anyone who thinks Pippen was on Wade's level as a player shouldn't be taken seriously.

[DonDadda59]

Lol what kind of ignorant crap is this? Does Wades scoring really make him a better overall player? Pippen is the better rebounder, passer, playmaker/running plays.

For a 6'4 SG, Wade is a damn good rebounder. And Wade was in the 6-8 APG range in the years before Bron became the first option. Pippen hit the 7 APG barrier once and in the season where he was the primary playmaker/#1 option, he averaged 5 APG. So yeah... no.



This doesnt come down to Wades ability to score vs Pippens ability to defend. But even if it did, Pippens regarded as the best perimeter defender ever. EVER. Wade is nowhere near the greatest perimeter scorer ever.

Pippen is in the argument for best perimeter defender ever, he wasn't even arguably the best perimeter defender on his own team. And Wade's been one of the best defenders at his position during his time in the league and he's one of the two best shotblocking SGs ever... at 6'4". The gap between their scoring capabilities/overall offense is greater than the gap in their defensive capabilities

Scottie Pippen is a better sidekick than he was lead dog. Wade has already proven he can lead a team to the promised land. Plus Pippen was not always so great under pressure and Wade is as clutch as they come.

[DonDadda59]

Why is this thread 6 pages? Anyone who thinks Pippen was on Wade's level as a player shouldn't be taken seriously.

This. I understand how good Pip was but the overrating here is ridiculous. Guys are in here seriously saying he was better than Wade or he's on Lebron's level? Stop it :oldlol:

[Micku]

Wade is a bit underrated this year in terms of what he could do. He is better than what his stats portray. In the beginning of the year he was still trying to get back to 100%, and he said he was going to be more healthy after the all star break. But Spo reduce Wade and Bosh minutes. In Wade's case the second lowest of his career.

Pippen is similar as in he stats are somewhat misleading in his impact. You won't go wrong with either or, but I would still take Wade because I think he does impact the game better. He is a better slicer and would draw more double teams and give his teammates more open shots while playing some elite d. I think his offensive game just overshadows Pippen's offensive game which is more important than the defense, in which Wade's defense was pretty good. He hasn't been as good as a defender this year, but then whole team has been slacking off on that aspect this year, especially in the first half of the season.

[PJR]

The gap betwen Pippen and Wade as scorer is LARGE. Larger than that of Pippen's defense in comparison to Wade.


You cannot ignore Pippen's limations as a scorer. Pippen was an opportunistic scorer who was dependant on a system. Pippen couldn't go on a 1-4 isolation clinic, in a half-court set like Wade can consistently. Pippen could not even DREAM of scoring 30ppg on 49-50% for a season. In any era. IF Pip is by far and away the best scorer on the team, you aren't SNIFFING a title. With Wade, you have a prayer.

Pippen was an exceptional complimentary star, Wade is a franchise player. It's as simple as that.

[juju151111]

And Pippen has SIX. Never lost when his teams had homecourt, never lost in the Olympics. The whole idea behind sports is to WIN. Not put up the best stats then make excuses when you lose. Lebron James offense isnt what cost the Heat that title. It was their inability to stop Jason Terry and Jose Berea. Why didnt Wade step up and accept that challenge? Pippen did that many times during the Bulls run.
as 6because of MJ its that simple. Don't come at me with that BS. What excuses. Facts are not excuses. LJ played like crap for a superstar standard?
1. The coach put LJ on Jason terry
2. They lose because LJ the superstar was completly underewhelming and choked away ,ost of the games.
3.What does Pippen having more championship then Wade mean?:wtf: You tried to imply Wade wasn't a Champion and you got called out. Pippen having 6 means noting Wade is still better then him just like most all-time greats.
4. Well Wade stats just helps the case.
. Pippen wasn't even better then rookie Wade till maybe his 3rd season maybe even 4th. FOH

[juju151111]

This is what it comes down to. Stats vs Results.
Wa time champion and never played with the arguably the greatest player ever. One of his championship run was cut short by a choker call 2011 LJ.

[97 bulls]

For a 6'4 SG, Wade is a damn good rebounder. And Wade was in the 6-8 APG range in the years before Bron became the first option. Pippen hit the 7 APG barrier once and in the season where he was the primary playmaker/#1 option, he averaged 5 APG. So yeah... no.




Pippen is in the argument for best perimeter defender ever, he wasn't even arguably the best perimeter defender on his own team. And Wade's been one of the best defenders at his position during his time in the league and he's one of the two best shotblocking SGs ever... at 6'4". The gap between their scoring capabilities/overall offense is greater than the gap in their defensive capabilities

Scottie Pippen is a better sidekick than he was lead dog. Wade has already proven he can lead a team to the promised land. Plus Pippen was not always so great under pressure and Wade is as clutch as they come.
Is Wade argubaly (as you put it) the best perimeter scorer ever?

I just do see the whole "Wade was a better lead dog" argument. Why didnt he lead the Heat past the Mavs in 11? Or allow Hinruch to shut him down in 07? Why didnt he assert his "aloha dog" mentality in the 0lympics? Why did he relinquish his role as team leader yo James? Are these things that Alpha Males do?

[LikeABosh]

Wade will be the a top 3 shooting guard of all time. Pippen isn't on his tier

[juju151111]

Is Wade argubaly (as you put it) the best perimeter scorer ever?

I just do see the whole "Wade was a better lead dog" argument. Why didnt he lead the Heat past the Mavs in 11? Or allow Hinruch to shut him down in 07? Why didnt he assert his "aloha dog" mentality in the 0lympics? Why did he relinquish his role as team leader yo James? Are these things that Alpha Males do?
Wade came back from a injury he was told not too for his team in 07 dumbass. Yes blame a guy for playing hurt sacrficed himself for his team and cost him to still be injured in 08. You a dumbass. Who cares if he relinquish his role? We already seen alpha dog Wade can do. He won a chamionship.:facepalm on having one of the best final perfomance ever. :facepalm You and your Pippen nonesense. He will never ever be better then Bird Magic or Wade

[97 bulls]

as 6because of MJ its that simple. Don't come at me with that BS. What excuses. Facts are not excuses. LJ played like crap for a superstar standard?
1. The coach put LJ on Jason terry
2. They lose because LJ the superstar was completly underewhelming and choked away ,ost of the games.
3.What does Pippen having more championship then Wade mean?:wtf: You tried to imply Wade wasn't a Champion and you got called out. Pippen having 6 means noting Wade is still better then him just like most all-time greats.
4. Well Wade stats just helps the case.
. Pippen wasn't even better then rookie Wade till maybe his 3rd season maybe even 4th. FOH
Lol these are all excuses. Im sure theres no way in Hell Spo wouldn't have allowed Wade to take on that defensive assignment. Again, cut the excuses.


Ill even take it a step further in your case juju. Youre a loser. You have a loser mentality. Otherwise, you wouldn't make statements such as Pippen winning six championships means nothing.

[PJR]

Is Wade argubaly (as you put it) the best perimeter scorer ever?

I just do see the whole "Wade was a better lead dog" argument. Why didnt he lead the Heat past the Mavs in 11? Or allow Hinruch to shut him down in 07? Why didnt he assert his "aloha dog" mentality in the 0lympics? Why did he relinquish his role as team leader yo James? Are these things that Alpha Males do?

Why couldn't Pippen assert his 'alpha dog mentality' in 95? Can't fall back on the Pete Meyers excuse considering he had Jordan for the down stretch. That was Pippen's oppritunity to showcase that he was an alpha, and he failed.


We can both play that bullshit game.

[Micku]

Lol these are all excuses. Im sure theres no way in Hell Spo wouldn't have allowed Wade to take on that defensive assignment. Again, cut the excuses.


Ill even take it a step further in your case juju. Youre a loser. You have a loser mentality. Otherwise, you wouldn't make statements such as Pippen winning six championships means nothing.

He didn't say that. He basically said Jordan was more important than Pippen in those titles. While Wade won a title by taking over and being the best player in his team. Pippen never done that on that level. Wade was going do it again if LeBron didn't suck in the finals.

And just because Pippen won more championships doesn't mean he is the better player or anything, especially since he wasn't their main go to guy.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lol these are all excuses. Im sure theres no way in Hell Spo wouldn't have allowed Wade to take on that defensive assignment. Again, cut the excuses.


Ill even take it a step further in your case juju. Youre a loser. You have a loser mentality. Otherwise, you wouldn't make statements such as Pippen winning six championships means nothing.

:coleman:

How is having Jordan, arguably the GOAT, an "excuse"?

[G-train]

This. I understand how good Pip was but the overrating here is ridiculous. Guys are in here seriously saying he was better than Wade or he's on Lebron's level? Stop it :oldlol:

You are a troll.

[DMV2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srl2Bwh6A3I

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6uuoa9tZM or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

[G-train]

Why is this thread 6 pages? Anyone who thinks Pippen was on Wade's level as a player shouldn't be taken seriously.

The stupidity in this thread is amazing.

Pippen was better than Wade. I wish you kids could get that through your thick skulls. Go watch some games from '93.
He was basically one of the top 5 or so best players in the league for 7-8 seasons, yet people think he was some sidekick defensive player.
He was an elite offensive player.

[G-train]

The gap betwen Pippen and Wade as scorer is LARGE. Larger than that of Pippen's defense in comparison to Wade.


You cannot ignore Pippen's limations as a scorer. Pippen was an opportunistic scorer who was dependant on a system. Pippen couldn't go on a 1-4 isolation clinic, in a half-court set like Wade can consistently. Pippen could not even DREAM of scoring 30ppg on 49-50% for a season. In any era. IF Pip is by far and away the best scorer on the team, you aren't SNIFFING a title. With Wade, you have a prayer.

Pippen was an exceptional complimentary star, Wade is a franchise player. It's as simple as that.

This post is just false, sorry dude. Basically everything in it is wrong.

[PJR]

I swear man, Scottie Pippen vs Dwyane Wade is a prime example of why proper context is needed when talking about championships/winning. :oldlol:

[PJR]

This post is just false, sorry dude. Basically everything in it is wrong.

Na, not really. That's why can you can't disprove any of it.

[G-train]

Na, not really. That's why can you can't disprove any of it.

When did you start watching basketball?

[LikeABosh]

This post is just false, sorry dude. Basically everything in it is wrong.
All your posts in this thread are condescending and don't prove anything. You act like it's a fact that Pippen is better than Wade and think everyone is stupid who disagrees.

[PJR]

When did you start watching basketball?

:oldlol: Please miss me with this bullshit. I likely forgot more basketball than you ever knew. I watched a shit ton of the 90's Bulls. Seen all of Michael and Scottie's prime. So, yeah.

[juju151111]

Lol these are all excuses. Im sure theres no way in Hell Spo wouldn't have allowed Wade to take on that defensive assignment. Again, cut the excuses.


Ill even take it a step further in your case juju. Youre a loser. You have a loser mentality. Otherwise, you wouldn't make statements such as Pippen winning six championships means nothing.
Facts LJ was a capable defender LJ did a good job the first few gms till he stared choking n getting lit up... wtf are u talking about? All means is Pippen had Mj. Pippen 6 rings mean shit. Pippen has more rings then most of the top 15 players of all time. He still not better then none.

[G-train]

The gap betwen Pippen and Wade as scorer is LARGE. Larger than that of Pippen's defense in comparison to Wade.

No its not. Pippen had a better offensive game than Wade. Fast break play, shooting, post... Pip has him. Pip was even better on the drive. He averaged 20ppg playing next to Jordan in a triangle offence, when there weren't many players dropping that.



You cannot ignore Pippen's limations as a scorer. Pippen was an opportunistic scorer who was dependant on a system. Pippen couldn't go on a 1-4 isolation clinic, in a half-court set like Wade can consistently. Pippen could not even DREAM of scoring 30ppg on 49-50% for a season. In any era. IF Pip is by far and away the best scorer on the team, you aren't SNIFFING a title. With Wade, you have a prayer.

Pippen frequently played one on one in broken play and within in the triangle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObgS6uUVjQ

Without handchecking and looking to score, given he had better tools than Wade offensively, and having watched his whole career and witnessed his skills playing within a team concept, where he basically co-led a team to 6 titles, I have no doubt he could average 30 at 49%.

And defensively, it's not really close. Pippen is probably the best defender ever who didn't play as a big man.

[G-train]

:oldlol: Please miss me with this bullshit. I likely forgot more basketball than you ever knew. I watched a shit ton of the 90's Bulls. Seen all of Michael and Scottie's prime. So, yeah.

No you didn't. You have hardly watched Pippen, and it's obvious in your posts.

[Djsonny]

Pippen 91-92 avg 21pts 7.0 ast and 7.7 reb, these are very solid numbers. As a sidekick behind a great scorer, I would pick the guy that can score in the 20s and can avg those ast and reb, but if you are going primary to build around, easily wade. But we never saw pippen in his prime as the franchise player so we dont know if he could've done what harden has done.

[LikeABosh]

No you didn't. You have hardly watched Pippen, and it's obvious in your posts.
Just stfu. You think your so knowledgeable because you watched basketball in the 90's? As if you're the only one.

[G-train]

All your posts in this thread are condescending and don't prove anything. You act like it's a fact that Pippen is better than Wade and think everyone is stupid who disagrees.

Because they either are stupid or uninformed.

There are guys in here saying Wade who were born in Pippen's prime, and have never seen him play a full game.

[Young X]

The gap betwen Pippen and Wade as scorer is LARGE. Larger than that of Pippen's defense in comparison to Wade.


You cannot ignore Pippen's limations as a scorer. Pippen was an opportunistic scorer who was dependant on a system. Pippen couldn't go on a 1-4 isolation clinic, in a half-court set like Wade can consistently. Pippen could not even DREAM of scoring 30ppg on 49-50% for a season. In any era. IF Pip is by far and away the best scorer on the team, you aren't SNIFFING a title. With Wade, you have a prayer.

Pippen was an exceptional complimentary star, Wade is a franchise player. It's as simple as that.
This post is 100% true.

[G-train]

Just stfu. You think your so knowledgeable because you watched basketball in the 90's? As if you're the only one.

I think I'm knowledgeable because there are dolts in here that think Wade is better than Pippen was. Guys in here saying that there is no contest when Pippen is a top 5 small forward of all time with a case for second or third.

And I have followed the Heat for decades, Wade is one of my favourite players.

[G-train]

This post is 100% true.

It's actually 100% false.
I'm not even hating, it's just the facts.

[PJR]

No you didn't. You have hardly watched Pippen, and it's obvious in your posts.

My god, you are stupid. I'm 30 years old. Yes I watched all of Pippen's prime.

Why don't you attempt to hit me with a proper rebuttal instead of this holier than thou, bullshit? :oldlol:

If you can't, I understand (because my post was dead on :oldlol: ).

[G-train]

My god, you are stupid. I'm 30 years old. Yes I watched all of Pippen's prime.

Why don't you attempt to hit me with a proper rebuttal instead of this holier than thou, bullshit? :oldlol:

If you can't, I understand (because my post was dead on :oldlol: ).

Read the thread dumbass.

A 30 year old basketball dolt obviously.

[RRR3]

I'm starting to picture G-Train saying "Fool of a Took!" before he posts :lol

[G-train]

I'm starting to picture G-Train saying "Fool of a Took!" before he posts :lol

Look man, I'm just dumbfounded.

I watched bball all through the 90's.
The bulls arguable had the 2 of the 3 or 4 best players in the league there for years. Pippen was that good.

[PJR]

Read the thread dumbass.

A 30 year old basketball dolt obviously.

I read your post, and they were stupid. You said Pippen was a 6'8 Wade on offense. That's pretty stupid.

Pippen could not score like Wade. That's a fact.

[RRR3]

Look man, I'm just dumbfounded.

I watched bball all through the 90's.
The bulls arguable had the 2 of the 3 or 4 best players in the league there for years. Pippen was that good.
I wasn't taking sides lol I was just referring to you having an avatar of Gandalf.
I didn't watch Pippen play so I'm staying out of this.

[G-train]

I wasn't taking sides lol I was just referring to you having an avatar of Gandalf.
I didn't watch Pippen play so I'm staying out of this.

yeah sorry wasn't having a go at you, just venting.

[G-train]

I read your post, and they were stupid. You said Pippen was a 6'8 Wade on offense. That's pretty stupid.

Pippen could not score like Wade. That's a fact.

Ok tell me how Pippen played on offence and tell me how Wade played.

Tell me Pippens offensive strengths weaknesses and tell me Wades.

They are very similar offensive players, except Pip was a better shooter and a better post player.

[derb2k2]

I'm starting to picture G-Train saying "Fool of a Took!" before he posts :lol


thread winner for using LoTR! :rockon:

[RRR3]

yeah sorry wasn't having a go at you, just venting.
all good:cheers:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcw2w0qqvM1rhvpw5o1_500.jpg

[RRR3]

thread winner for using LoTR! :rockon:
http://i.imgur.com/tfmdd.gif

[atljonesbro]

People still respond to 97 bulls? Dude is easily the biggest homer on the forum and he doesn't even realize it because he's stupid. 97 bulls thinks Pippen is better than LeBron, I remember him posting it :roll: :roll: Dude really needs to get out the loony shack he probably thinks Toni Kukoc is a top 5 player today.

[guy]

And Pippen has SIX. Never lost when his teams had homecourt, never lost in the Olympics. The whole idea behind sports is to WIN. Not put up the best stats then make excuses when you lose. Lebron James offense isnt what cost the Heat that title. It was their inability to stop Jason Terry and Jose Berea. Why didnt Wade step up and accept that challenge? Pippen did that many times during the Bulls run.

Ummm, Lebron is literally almost 100% the reason the Heat lost. The Heat would've literally been better off if Lebron got injured in the middle of game 2 and missed the rest of the series. It was that bad. His lack of leadership and complete change in approach changed the dynamic and chemistry of that team, probably confusing the shit out of them in the process. They would've been better off if they knew what they could reasonably expect from Lebron, even if it literally meant his absence. The only blame Wade deserves is for his unclutch play at the end of game 4, but thats about it. The rest was clearly all on Lebron.

[Zodiac]

Wade is so overrated, when all things are said and done and we look back on this 15-20 years from now Wade won't be considered better than Pippen.

Wade in his prime was very good as a finisher around the basket and a shooter. He's decent on D but his motor and active hands make him seem a lot better then he really is.

2005 was a great year for Wade but it was also a transitional year the majority of the league and anyone with eyes knows the Mavs got screwed in the finals.

Wade is a bit better on O than Pippen, but Pippen's D>>>>>>>>>>>>Wade's

Even then look at the numbers Pippen put up without MJ.

Pippen w/o MJ averaged 22 PTs on nearly 50% shooting with 3 TOPG, 6 APG, and 8 RPG

Pippen actually averaged more assists than DWade when you compare the years Pippen had without MJ and DWade's 05 year.

After 05 Wade had his stats inflated due to being the only scoring option and the Heat weren't really serious contenders. The Bulls with Pippen were able to serious contenders.

[97 bulls]

Why couldn't Pippen assert his 'alpha dog mentality' in 95? Can't fall back on the Pete Meyers excuse considering he had Jordan for the down stretch. That was Pippen's oppritunity to showcase that he was an alpha, and he failed.


We can both play that bullshit game.
Lol the Bulls lost to the Maguc because they werent good enough. Plain and simple. They had no interior defense after Longley. Grant was gone. Scott Williams left. Cartwright was old.

[DonDadda59]

You are a troll.

Uh huh


Prime Pippen isn't that far off Lebron James

But I'm the troll :oldlol:

[RRR3]

I keep cracking up imaging Gandalf arguing with people on ISH :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

He didn't say that. He basically said Jordan was more important than Pippen in those titles. While Wade won a title by taking over and being the best player in his team. Pippen never done that on that level. Wade was going do it again if LeBron didn't suck in the finals.

And just because Pippen won more championships doesn't mean he is the better player or anything, especially since he wasn't their main go to guy.
No Mick. He said Pippens winning six championshiops means nothing. Thats wrong. Unless you feel the Bulls didnt need Pippen.

[2010splash]

Then why has Wade failed so many times as an Alpha Male? What Alpha Male willingly gives up his status?
He hasn't failed. What he did in 2006 was more impressive than anything Pippen was ever capable of doing, which is no knock on Pippen at all but rather a testament to how great Dwyane Wade is (tier 1 superstar) when he has his own team. Pippen has never been close to being statistically a top 2 player, while Wade has on several occasions. And he did have the chance to prove he could do so in 1994.

Plus, post Shaq the Heat team around Wade was just terrible. I'm assuming you're referring to those years when saying Wade "failed", which is ridiculous given how little supprt he had. How far was he supposed to take them?

[97 bulls]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srl2Bwh6A3I

vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw6uuoa9tZM or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ
Lol one is Patrick Ewing. The other two are Kendrick Perkins and Anderson Varejo. come on.

[Ikill]

Wades a better "lead dog" because he is a much better scorer simple as that. Their overall defensive impact is pretty close and i would say Wades a better playmaker but once again it close.

Wade got injured in the 2011 finals while the rest of team was garbage you can't hold that series against him he played amazing. Wade had that major shoulder injury in 2007 he wasn't supposed to be playing and seriously bringing up the Olympics when he barely played smh. Why do you even want argue about this lead dog garbage. Prime Wade when healthy is without a doubt a better player than prime Pippen career wise i guess Pippen is better.

[Zodiac]

He hasn't failed. What he did in 2006 was more impressive than anything Pippen was ever capable of doing, which is no knock on Pippen at all but rather a testament to how great Dwyane Wade is (tier 1 superstar) when he has his own team. Pippen has never been close to being statistically a top 2 player, while Wade has on several occasions. And he did have the chance to prove he could do so in 1994.

Plus, post Shaq the Heat team around Wade was just terrible. I'm assuming you're referring to those years when saying Wade "failed", which is ridiculous given how little supprt he had. How far was he supposed to take them?
Dude, seriously? Wade has never been able to legit lead his team without help.

Heat fans like to say Shaq was past his prime, regardless his presence still changed defenses in 2005 and gave Wade an open lane.

The bulls got royally screwed in 94 playoffs in game 5 against the knicks. If not they would have made it to the Finals.

You know who Pippen had, an aging Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong. Wade would've lead that team to the lottery.

[97 bulls]

I swear man, Scottie Pippen vs Dwyane Wade is a prime example of why proper context is needed when talking about championships/winning. :oldlol:
Then apply proper context to both sides.

[LikeABosh]

He hasn't failed. What he did in 2006 was more impressive than anything Pippen was ever capable of doing, which is no knock on Pippen at all but rather a testament to how great Dwyane Wade is (tier 1 superstar) when he has his own team. Pippen has never been close to being statistically a top 2 player, while Wade has on several occasions. And he did have the chance to prove he could do so in 1994.

Plus, post Shaq the Heat team around Wade was just terrible. I'm assuming you're referring to those years when saying Wade "failed", which is ridiculous given how little supprt he had. How far was he supposed to take them?
Wade's team was truly awful post Shaq. So much shitty players on that team. His main help was players like Beasley, Chalmers, Dorrell Wright and Quentin Richardson. How could he be expected to take that team deep into the playoffs? He did everything he could. His performance in the 2010 series vs. the Celtics was amazing. Scored something like 33 per game with 7 and 7 against a top 5 D

[97 bulls]

Facts LJ was a capable defender LJ did a good job the first few gms till he stared choking n getting lit up... wtf are u talking about? All means is Pippen had Mj. Pippen 6 rings mean shit. Pippen has more rings then most of the top 15 players of all time. He still not better then none.
Ok. But were comparing him to Wade not the top 15. Besides that, Wade did have James and Shaq in his two runs. And while Shaq was in the twilight of his career, he still was arguably the best center in the league.

[guy]

You could argue the pippen thing depending on your views of him (I still believe he is underrated), but scoring is outrageously overrated these days.
Now granted scoring on great effeciency is huge (like Wade does), but it is simply A important factor, not THE important factor.

Players like Rose and Melo show just how overrated scoring is. Likewise, their defensive/rebounded minded partners in Noah and Chandler are subsequently
underrated because of this while the low effeciency volume scores get overrated and supposedly "carry" their teams.

You can't just deem scoring on great efficiency as the only way someone is a great scorer. And I would say Rose and Melo at least before this season were more then just scorers. Either way, even if your position is those two are one-dimensional and don't do anything but score, thats a good reason to say those two as overall players are overrated, but not a good reason to say scoring in general is overrated.

I'd say scoring is underrated because people seem to think that rebounding and assists are just as important when its clearly not, and as far as individual abilities go, individual scoring in general is by far the ability who's impact is least dependent on one's teammates.

[atljonesbro]

How does 97 bulls have so many green bars? He has to have multiple ALTs to rep himself. He says some of the most outlandish stuff on the forum.

[PJR]

Ok tell me how Pippen played on offence and tell me how Wade played.

Tell me Pippens offensive strengths weaknesses and tell me Wades.

They are very similar offensive players, except Pip was a better shooter and a better post player.




I already labeled the distinct differences between them in my intial post in this thread, that you have yet to refute.


They only fashion in which Pippen and Wade are comparable as scorers are that in the open court. Where Pippen was exceptional. But in the half court? There's a clear gap.


Dwyane Wade is a master at screen and roll. His bread and butter is screen and roll penetration. His excellent first step makes him virtually unstoppable in the half court. Wade also has a fantastic post game (particulay on the left block), and streaky mid range pull up game.

Pippen had a nice lil post game. Had a nice lil streaky pull up game too(his trade mark was that pull up 3 in transistion). Solid, but not great penetator. He could not consistently (certainly not like a Dwyane Wade) beat guys off the bounce as he didn't have the greateast of first steps.

I'd say they are comparable passers/playmakers. But scorers? Not a chance.

Pippen's career high was 33 in the post-season. Wade has like 8 40+ point games in the post-season, alone. :confusedshrug: That's pretty much lets you know the deal right there.



Pippen was a great player, not trying to be dismissive of him. He was a top ten player at his peak in the 90's, but a 6'8 Wade on offense? Get the **** outtta here. I suppose you think Pippen could score like Jordan as well? Because Wade's scoring capablities are much closer to that of Jordan's, then there are to friggin Pip :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

He hasn't failed. What he did in 2006 was more impressive than anything Pippen was ever capable of doing, which is no knock on Pippen at all but rather a testament to how great Dwyane Wade is (tier 1 superstar) when he has his own team. Pippen has never been close to being statistically a top 2 player, while Wade has on several occasions. And he did have the chance to prove he could do so in 1994.

Plus, post Shaq the Heat team around Wade was just terrible. I'm assuming you're referring to those years when saying Wade "failed", which is ridiculous given how little supprt he had. How far was he supposed to take them?
Ok but youre acting as if Wades been able to duplicate those 6 games on command. He hasnt. And there have been plenty of times when it was needed. 6 games is such a small sample size.

And notice how you slyly include "statistically" top 2 player? I dont care about stats as much as I do results.

[Ikill]

Dude, seriously? Wade has never been able to legit lead his team without help.

Heat fans like to say Shaq was past his prime, regardless his presence still changed defenses in 2005 and gave Wade an open lane.

The bulls got royally screwed in 94 playoffs in game 5 against the knicks. If not they would have made it to the Finals.

You know who Pippen had, an aging Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong. Wade would've lead that team to the lottery.
Im pretty sure every player needs help to win it all but Wades supporting cast wasn't that strong compared to other championship squads. Still saying Wade never lead a team past the 1st round without help is true. The thing is your implying that Wade needs a lot of help to lead his team because he couldn't get past the first round with a terrible team. How do you know he wouldn't be able to make deep playoff run with an average supporting cast a team with no second star but good role players. Wade never had a team like that he either had a terrible supporting cast or a team with another star.

[2010splash]

Dude, seriously? Wade has never been able to legit lead his team without help.

Heat fans like to say Shaq was past his prime, regardless his presence still changed defenses in 2005 and gave Wade an open lane.

The bulls got royally screwed in 94 playoffs in game 5 against the knicks. If not they would have made it to the Finals.

You know who Pippen had, an aging Horace Grant and BJ Armstrong. Wade would've lead that team to the lottery.
Pippen never successfully led a team the way Wade did in 2006. And no, they would not have made the Finals in 94. No proof they would have beat Indiana. Furthermore, the very next year in 95 he led them to nothing. The Bulls were a middling .500 team until Jordan's return.

Is Pippen good enough to single-handedly carry an offense and average 35 ppg in the Finals? No, because he was not that type of player. It's great that he "was a better defender and rebounder" and all that, but the gap between their scoring/clutch/take over the game abilities is far bigger than the gap between them defensively.

The post Shaq Heat teams were trash that Wade single-handedly dragged to the playoffs. Pippen couldn't lead a team of Beasley, Haslem, JO, Cook, Chalmers, Blount etc anywhere, never mind to the playoffs. This comparison is truly a disgrace. Just because a player can do more things doesn't make him a better player. Garnett was far more versatile than Shaq, yet a far worse player. The idea that a 20/8/6 player is being compared favorably to someone who once averaged 30/5/8 (essentially LeBron numbers) is a disgrace.

[PJR]

Then apply proper context to both sides.

Here's some proper context for you.

25ppg on 48%
6apg
5rpg
1.8 spg
1.0 bpg

vs

16 ppg on 47%
6rpg
5apg
2.0 spg
.8 pb


Guess which player is which. :oldlol:

[PJR]

Pippen never successfully led a team the way Wade did in 2006. And no, they would not have made the Finals in 94. No proof they would have beat Indiana. Furthermore, the very next year in 95 he led them to nothing. The Bulls were a middling .500 team until Jordan's return.

Is Pippen good enough to single-handedly carry an offense and average 35 ppg in the Finals? No, because he was not that type of player. It's great that he "was a better defender and rebounder" and all that, but the gap between their scorig/clutch/take over the game abilities is far bigger than the gap between them defensively.

The post Shaq Heat teams were trash that Wade single-handedly dragged to the playoffs. Pippen couldn't lead a team of Beasley, Haslem, JO, Cook, Chalmers, Blount etc anywhere, never mind to the playoffs. This comparison is truly a disgrace. Just because a player can do more things doesn't make him a better player. Garnett was far more versatile than Shaq, yet a far worse player. The idea that a 20/8/6 player is being compared favorably to someone who once averaged 30/5/8 (essentially LeBron numbers) is a disgrace.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[2010splash]

Ok but youre acting as if Wades been able to duplicate those 6 games on command. He hasnt. And there have been plenty of times when it was needed. 6 games is such a small sample size.

And notice how you slyly include "statistically" top 2 player? I dont care about stats as much as I do results.
He's had entire regular seasons putting up superstar numbers. More than just 6 games in 2006. Do people not remember how dominant Wade was in 2009? For a good part of the season he was viewed as on par with LeBron. When has Pippen ever been that dominant?

With a straight face you can't tell me that Pippen was ever unquestionably a better player than any of the following: Shaq, Olajuwon, Barkley, Robinson, Malone, Ewing. Not even better than prime Hill. Great player and a legend, but the revisionist history needs to stop.

[97 bulls]

He's had entire regular seasons putting up superstar numbers. More than just 6 games in 2006. Do people not remember how dominant Wade was in 2009? For a good part of the season he was viewed as on par with LeBron. When has Pippen ever been that dominant?

With a straight face you can't tell me that Pippen was ever unquestionably a better player than any of the following: Shaq, Olajuwon, Barkley, Robinson, Malone, Ewing. Not even better than prime Hill. Great player and a legend, but the revisionist history needs to stop.
In 09, Lebron wasnt regarded as better than Olajuwan in 94. Or Robinson for that matter. Those were the only two players that had a case over Pippen. Which is why Pippen finished third in the MVP voting.

[plowking]

Here's some proper context for you.

25ppg on 48%
6ap
5pg
1.8 spg
1.0 bpg

vs

16 ppg on 47%
6rpg
5apg
2.0 spg
.8 pb


Guess which player is which. :oldlol:

:oldlol:

All that needs to be said.

This is a complete disgrace of a comparison. Wade shits on Pippen. It hasn't been close since Wade's 3rd year and on. Sheesh. There were players like Penny Hardaway back in the day that did what Pippen did better than Pippen did it.

[atljonesbro]

Here's some proper context for you.

25ppg on 48%
6ap
5pg
1.8 spg
1.0 bpg

vs

16 ppg on 47%
6rpg
5apg
2.0 spg
.8 pb


Guess which player is which. :oldlol:
97 Bulls ducking and dodging posts:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1687603/quizzin.gif

[2010splash]

In 09, Lebron wasnt regarded as better than Olajuwan in 94. Or Robinson for that matter. Those were the only two players that had a case over Pippen. Which is why Pippen finished third in the MVP voting.
LeBron in 2009 was better than any version of Hakeem. We are talking about the same LeBron who averaged 39/8/8 against the #1 ranked defense in the ECF and led a team of Mo Williams, Z, Delonte, Varejao and Boobie to 66 wins. Did you seriously just say LeBron wasn't better than David Robinson? And yeah, it was a great year from Pippen... but it pales in comparison to Wade's best seasons.

[97 bulls]

Here's some proper context for you.

25ppg on 48%
6apg
5rpg
1.8 spg
1.0 bpg

vs

16 ppg on 47%
6rpg
5apg
2.0 spg
.8 pb


Guess which player is which. :oldlol:
This is context? Ones basically the statistics of his prime, while the other is of a completed career. Its like me posting the two players statistics in total.

And Im the first to say Pippen shoulsve retired wayyyyy before he did.

[PJR]

First 10 seasons

25ppg
6apg
5rpg
1.8 spg
1.0bpg



vs

18.7ppg
5 apg
6.5 rpg
2.0 spg
1.0 bpg

:confusedshrug:

And Wade was all-NBA his second year. Pippen didn't even become an all star until his fourth year.

[97 bulls]

LeBron in 2009 was better than any version of Hakeem. We are talking about the same LeBron who averaged 39/8/8 against the #1 ranked defense in the ECF and led a team of Mo Williams, Z, Delonte, Varejao and Boobie to 66 wins. Did you seriously just say LeBron wasn't better than David Robinson? And yeah, it was a great year from Pippen... but it pales in comparison to Wade's best seasons.
At that stage of Robinson's career? Yes. Or at least on James level.

[juju151111]

In 09, Lebron wasnt regarded as better than Olajuwan in 94. Or Robinson for that matter. Those were the only two players that had a case over Pippen. Which is why Pippen finished third in the MVP voting.
09 was one of LJ best year if not his best wtf are u talking about seriously. 09 LJ is better then David Robinson Gtfo. Pippen never had a year comparable to 09 Wade not even 06 Wade.

[HiphopRelated]

This is context? Ones basically the statistics of his prime, while the other is of a completed career. Its like me posting the two players statistics in total.

And Im the first to say Pippen shoulsve retired wayyyyy before he did.
It doesn't matter when he retired, the numbers wouldn't be close

As far as where did Wade carry teams? He swept the the Nets with Shaq hobbled and then swept the Wizards with Shaq in a suit in 2005.

Wade doesn't need a star to be competitive, he needed competent players.

Saying he didn't lead Chris Quinn and Stephane Lasme is disingenuous.

Pip is cool, but the comparison is an insult in the grand scheme

[juju151111]

At that stage of Robinson's career? Yes. Or at least on James level.
Are you a crack? 09 Lj is clearly better then 94 Robinson. 09 LJ was a monster (this is before he use to get nervous in the 4th). He was jumping from the free throw line in game and playing defense on crazy level. He had way more chase down blocks. 09 LJ can be argued to be his best year ur nuts.

[red1]

Anyone who is unbiased will take wade. Dwade is a top-tier first option for a team whereas pippen is the ultimate complementary player

[PJR]

Pippen in his first year was some 8ppg project that neede tutelage from Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, and Jordan to become great 4 years down the line.

Dwyane Wade led the Heat to the Eastern Semis his rookie year. :oldlol:

Rookie Wade was clowning on 2004 DPOY/Peak Ron Artest in the post-season as a ROOKIE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqzzykF3ZKc

:bowdown:

[Whoah10115]

First 10 seasons

25ppg
6apg
5rpg
1.8 spg
1.0bpg



vs

18.7ppg
5 apg
6.5 rpg
2.0 spg
1.0 bpg

:confusedshrug:

And Wade was all-NBA his second year. Pippen didn't even become an all star until his fourth year.



Someone who watched all of prime Pippen wouldn't post these stats and conclude anything from there...not if he knows what he's talking about.

Pippen was an all-star in his 3rd year and was snubbed his 4th year.


I think Wade is the better player, but people are stupid in this thread. The pro-Pippen agenda is going a little crazy, but the amount of annoying coming from the opposite side is much worse. People talking about Pippen like this is nostalgia, without having any idea where he actually placed during his time in the league. Pippen was a lot more than a complementary player, but he has the Kobe 3peat curse and of the best player being on his team. Shame, as only Hakeem and Robinson were better over the two years Jordan was out (not Shaq). Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting and then 7th the next year, because his team was so bad in such a strong conference that they were barely over .500 when Jordan came back. He should have been DPOTY in 95 and maybe in 94, too. He was probably the most deserving of the MVP in 93, tho Hakeem and Robinson were both great. That's just the fact of it. He was even 5th in MVP voting in 96, when MJ won his 4th.


Guy was a PG at 6'8, on a team with Jordan, and the Triangle. Most other places would have let him play the PG position and people would appreciate him more. The notion that he was a complementary player is so stupid, as it has no basis in reality. The guy was the main playmaker and floor general in that half-court offense. And his rebounding would be even better in a different system (or with real centers). Shame.

[PJR]

Someone who watched all of prime Pippen wouldn't post these stats and conclude anything from there...not if he knows what he's talking about.

Pippen was an all-star in his 3rd year and was snubbed his 4th year.


I think Wade is the better player, but people are stupid in this thread. The pro-Pippen agenda is going a little crazy, but the amount of annoying coming from the opposite side is much worse. People talking about Pippen like this is nostalgia, without having any idea where he actually placed during his time in the league. Pippen was a lot more than a complementary player, but he has the Kobe 3peat curse and of the best player being on his team. Shame, as only Hakeem and Robinson were better over the two years Jordan was out (not Shaq). Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting and then 7th the next year, because his team was so bad in such a strong conference that they were barely over .500 when Jordan came back. He should have been DPOTY in 95 and maybe in 94, too. He was probably the most deserving of the MVP in 93, tho Hakeem and Robinson were both great. That's just the fact of it. He was even 5th in MVP voting in 96, when MJ won his 4th.


Guy was a PG at 6'8, on a team with Jordan, and the Triangle. Most other places would have let him play the PG position and people would appreciate him more. The notion that he was a complementary player is so stupid, as it has no basis in reality. The guy was the main playmaker and floor general in that half-court offense. And his rebounding would be even better in a different system (or with real centers). Shame.

Honestly, I agree with you.

I said in a earlier post, I don't mean to sound dismissive of Pippen. He was a great player.

But in regards to this comparison, I just think Wade is better. With the take over scoring ability as the main reason why. I think that's a fair assessment. *shrugs*.

[juju151111]

Pippen in his first year was some 8ppg project that neede tutelage from Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, and Jordan to become great 4 years down the line.

Dwyane Wade led the Heat to the Eastern Semis his rookie year. :oldlol:

Rookie Wade was clowning on 2004 DPOY/Peak Ron Artest in the post-season as a ROOKIE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqzzykF3ZKc

:bowdown:
97bulls is a clown when it comes to Pippen. This guy taught Pippen was Magic lite. He a nut case.

[guy]

In 09, Lebron wasnt regarded as better than Olajuwan in 94. Or Robinson for that matter. Those were the only two players that had a case over Pippen. Which is why Pippen finished third in the MVP voting.

I'd probably go with Hakeem, but I'd at least say its arguable. But wow, Robinson? :oldlol: Lebron by at least 09 was better then Robinson ever was.

I never questioned your over the top perception of Pippen because I felt alot of that has to do with just biased fandom, which can happen to all of us. But for you to say Robinson was ever better then Lebron makes me wonder if you were even watching the NBA back then or at least paying that much attention.

[juju151111]

Shaq been better then Pippen since 96.

[Calabis]

He just said this on his show...Agree or disagree? He's comparing the 72 win Bulls to this year's Heat team...

Agree...people act like Pippen was top 10 on this mfer

[Calabis]

wade is riding lebrons jock the entire regular season and playoffs.. pippen was a damn good soldier and one of the best players of all time.. top 20 easy.

kobe, shaq, kareem, magic, bird, mj are all top 20 players.. theres no reason why pippen shouldnt be right there with them.. no reason at all.

6 rings as the anchor on defense and primary playmaker/facilitator :bowdown:

:roll:

[plowking]

Shaq been better then Pippen since 96.

Shaq was better in his rookie year than Pippen could ever dream of being.

[Vragrant]

You act like Wade isn't a great defender, facilitator, defender, and rebounder (for a guard) himself.

Precisely. I think people forget that Wade is an excellent allround player with elite level offense and one of the best offensive wing players of all time.

I don't understand the fascination with Pippens' "allround play" when he was a relatively pedestrian offensive player compared to Wade. Wade pretty much do everything AND carry a team offensively.

Wade is and has always has been better than Pippen.

[Euroleague]

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Pippen is him throwing a hissy fit over Jackson drawing up a last second play for Kukoc and then Pippen refusing to go back in the game.

Then Pippen giving Jackson the death stare.

Then Kukoc going in and hitting the game winning shot.

:lol

Sorry Scottie, but you won't ever live that down.

Wade is better.

[Duncan21formvp]

Yes this is obvious.. Also Wade is top 20 all time, while Pippen is top 30 all time. Whatever the case both are franchise players. I take Wade because I already know he can carry a team on the highest stage.

[97 bulls]

I'd probably go with Hakeem, but I'd at least say its arguable. But wow, Robinson? :oldlol: Lebron by at least 09 was better then Robinson ever was.

I never questioned your over the top perception of Pippen because I felt alot of that has to do with just biased fandom, which can happen to all of us. But for you to say Robinson was ever better then Lebron makes me wonder if you were even watching the NBA back then or at least paying that much attention.
Robinson avg.30/11/5 with 2 stls and a 3 blks. He could post up, ran the floor like a guard, had an excellent jump shot, and defended the perimeter etc. Robinson lost his luster after Olajuwan ate his lunch in 95. He was highly regarded in 94.

[97 bulls]

Precisely. I think people forget that Wade is an excellent allround player with elite level offense and one of the best offensive wing players of all time.

I don't understand the fascination with Pippens' "allround play" when he was a relatively pedestrian offensive player compared to Wade. Wade pretty much do everything AND carry a team offensively.

Wade is and has always has been better than Pippen.
But Pippen was an excellent scorer as well. I just.dont get this kind of reasoning. Lets just totally negate that Pippen avg 20 ppg on a very good efficiency. I mean, you just called his offense "pedestrian". In his two years without Jordan he finished seventh and ninth in scoring. Thats out of 500 NBA players. Hiw in the hell is that pedestrian?

[guy]

Robinson avg.30/11/5 with 2 stls and a 3 blks. He could post up, ran the floor like a guard, had an excellent jump shot, and defended the perimeter etc. Robinson lost his luster after Olajuwan ate his lunch in 95. He was highly regarded in 94.

Are we talking about who was better or who was more highly regarded? Cause Robinson was neither. He definitely wasn't better. He definitely wasn't as highly regarded either. I don't know if you noticed, but Lebron has been the most hyped up player ever and by 09 his level of play was regarded as probably better then anyone in history outside of the normal top 10 consensus players of all time.

[Calabis]

People act like numbers don't tell the whole story, but they do tell 99% of whats occurring:

22 pts, 8 rebs, 6 asts.....great defense, yet this is arguably the best all around player of his time

32 pts, 8 rebs, 8 ast....great defense, yet he's not as good all around as the guy above and the above guy was the key cog in keeping the offense rolling:rolleyes:

People act like Pip's defense was that of legend, like he was holding stars to 5 points a game.... yet completely ignore that if his offensive burden was not as great as Jordan, Wade, Kobes, LBJ and many other franchise guys were/was. He wouldn't be playing that type of defense if he was required to score 30 a night. Dude played with the GOAT, offensively he had it easier by not being the main focus, and this myth that he guarded the best perimeter guy while Jordan rested on defensive..is a crock of shit. Are we going to act like Kobe couldn't play mad defense being second fiddle...oh wait he did when Shaq was there, its gone down as his offensive role increased.

Johnny Bach who coached on the Bulls first three peat called Jordan a better defender, but that is ignored, because we have to pump up Pippen and make him something he's not.

Last but not least....who in there right mind would take a defender over a scorer...no fvcking body unless you have a scorer already. Wade's offensive ability destroys any defensive advantages Pippen had. Wade is one of the best shot blocking guards of all time and plays good defense, add his ability to rack up 50 on any given night and you have a better player, get over it. Pippen damn good player, Wade is simply better.

[Ne 1]

97bulls is a clown when it comes to Pippen. This guy taught Pippen was Magic lite. He a nut case.

Peak Pippen was actually very close to mid 80s Magic statistically speaking...

'94 Pippen:

22/9/6/3 on 49%
All-defensive first team
23.2 PER (lets use PER since MJ fans love this statistic)
Bulls were 51-21 in games he played, and 4-6 without him

'85 Magic:

18/6/13/2 on 56%
23.2 PER
Lakers were 57-20 in games he played, and 5-0 without him

Magic is obviously the better offensive player (and would go on to become an even better player after '87), but Pippen has a huge huge edge defensively. But had Pippen's prime come in the mid 80s, against a worse league defensively and while playing on a faster pace (imagine even more transition scoring opportunities for Scottie), is a 24/10/7 season on 50+% really out of the question here? Maybe even something like 25/10/8 if he played in the mid 80s run and gun Western Conference (defensively those were some of the worst conferences in NBA history, almost every team gave up 110+ ppg). Pippen can lock down Magic in a one on one matchup as we've already seen in '91, but can you say the same is true the other way around? I think '87-'89 Magic > any version of Pippen, but mid 80s Magic vs. Pippen is a really good comparison imo. Both players can dominate a game while taking less than 10 shots too.

Pippen on an 80's run and gun team could've approached those numbers, IMO. He averaged 21/8/7 on 51% shooting on the '92 Bulls and that team's pace factor was 94.4, his season 22/9/6/49 FG% season in '94 came on a team with a pace factor of 91.9.

Now if we use '85 for comparison, the Nuggets played at the fastest pace(107.6) and the Showtime Lakers were only the 9th fastest team(103.2).

So a 21-22 ppg, 8-9 rpg, 6-7 apg going from a structured slower paced offensive to a fastbreak team with 10-15 extra possessions to work with. So those estimates for his numbers don't sound unrealistic at all.

[Dro]

Someone who watched all of prime Pippen wouldn't post these stats and conclude anything from there...not if he knows what he's talking about.

Pippen was an all-star in his 3rd year and was snubbed his 4th year.


I think Wade is the better player, but people are stupid in this thread. The pro-Pippen agenda is going a little crazy, but the amount of annoying coming from the opposite side is much worse. People talking about Pippen like this is nostalgia, without having any idea where he actually placed during his time in the league. Pippen was a lot more than a complementary player, but he has the Kobe 3peat curse and of the best player being on his team. Shame, as only Hakeem and Robinson were better over the two years Jordan was out (not Shaq). Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting and then 7th the next year, because his team was so bad in such a strong conference that they were barely over .500 when Jordan came back. He should have been DPOTY in 95 and maybe in 94, too. He was probably the most deserving of the MVP in 93, tho Hakeem and Robinson were both great. That's just the fact of it. He was even 5th in MVP voting in 96, when MJ won his 4th.


Guy was a PG at 6'8, on a team with Jordan, and the Triangle. Most other places would have let him play the PG position and people would appreciate him more. The notion that he was a complementary player is so stupid, as it has no basis in reality. The guy was the main playmaker and floor general in that half-court offense. And his rebounding would be even better in a different system (or with real centers). Shame.
This is a good post...I do think Pippen is being underrated and overrated in this thread. I think Wade is a better player because he's proven he can win a title as the man. Now maybe if Pippen had more years and a team built around him, and had as good a section option as Wade did(Shaq), then maybe he could've won one. I agree if he played on any other team, his numbers across the board would be even higher, especially his assists. Having said that, Illl take Wade but the amount of hate Pippen is getting is crazy. He's one of the best finishers ever also which I don't really see anyone mentioning...

[DonDadda59]

So let's review- Scottie Pippen>Dwyane Wade, Scottie Pippen = Lebron James & Magic Johnson.

Story checks out I guess.

[Lebron23]

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/d_wade.jpg

[97 bulls]

Are we talking about who was better or who was more highly regarded? Cause Robinson was neither. He definitely wasn't better. He definitely wasn't as highly regarded either. I don't know if you noticed, but Lebron has been the most hyped up player ever and by 09 his level of play was regarded as probably better then anyone in history outside of the normal top 10 consensus players of all time.
The same Lebron James that people were calling a choker, a quiter, afraid to take the big shots? I agree as far as talent, James is probably second only to Jordan. But Robinson was highly touted as well.

[guy]

The same Lebron James that people were calling a choker, a quiter, afraid to take the big shots? I agree as far as talent, James is probably second only to Jordan. But Robinson was highly touted as well.

Ummm they were saying similar things about Robinson. And they weren't really saying that stuff about Lebron until 2010. No one said Roninson wasn't highly touted, just not up there with Lebron.

[juju151111]

The same Lebron James that people were calling a choker, a quiter, afraid to take the big shots? I agree as far as talent, James is probably second only to Jordan. But Robinson was highly touted as well.
09 LJ never had that until the Celtics series the next year. LJ in 09 had plewas a beast.

[Ne 1]

http://www.clap.name/images/blog/d_wade.jpg

http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/Jan2010/60393328.jpg

[HiphopRelated]

http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/Jan2010/60393328.jpg
The one he is lifting is more useful for this thread

[Ikill]

But Pippen was an excellent scorer as well. I just.dont get this kind of reasoning. Lets just totally negate that Pippen avg 20 ppg on a very good efficiency. I mean, you just called his offense "pedestrian". In his two years without Jordan he finished seventh and ninth in scoring. Thats out of 500 NBA players. Hiw in the hell is that pedestrian?
He averaged around 20 points on average efficiency 55 ts is not very good its average. So no he was not a excellent scorer

[Ikill]

This is a good post...I do think Pippen is being underrated and overrated in this thread. I think Wade is a better player because he's proven he can win a title as the man. Now maybe if Pippen had more years and a team built around him, and had as good a section option as Wade did(Shaq), then maybe he could've won one. I agree if he played on any other team, his numbers across the board would be even higher, especially his assists. Having said that, Illl take Wade but the amount of hate Pippen is getting is crazy. He's one of the best finishers ever also which I don't really see anyone mentioning...
06 shaq isa better scorer than pippen so he wouldnt be the 1st option. Pippen is not even a 2nd option

[97 bulls]

He averaged around 20 points on average efficiency 55 ts is not very good its average. So no he was not a excellent scorer
Granted, Pippen was a mediocre to below avg ft shooter. But then again, Wade recently admitted he coddles his fg%.

[97 bulls]

06 shaq isa better scorer than pippen so he wouldnt be the 1st option. Pippen is not even a 2nd option
He would be the best player on that team.

[Dro]

06 shaq isa better scorer than pippen so he wouldnt be the 1st option. Pippen is not even a 2nd option
Not sure if you're serious with this....:confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

Ummm they were saying similar things about Robinson. And they weren't really saying that stuff about Lebron until 2010. No one said Roninson wasn't highly touted, just not up there with Lebron.
Right. But not until Olajuwan kicked his ass in 95.

[97 bulls]

Not sure if you're serious with this....:confusedshrug:
He was the second option on Six championship teams. It again shows the mindset kf some of these posters. The bottom line is the object of any game is to win. Pippen is one of the most successful ever.

[PJR]

Pippen is better than Wade.
I wouldn't even call Wade a better scorer.
He is not a better defender.

Prime Pippen isn't that far off Lebron James. And I'm a Heat fan.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LEFT4DEAD]

I totally agree with this. No doubt that Wade is a better player than Pippen.

[PJR]

He was the second option on Six championship teams. It again shows the mindset kf some of these posters. The bottom line is the object of any game is to win. Pippen is one of the most successful ever.

The object of the game is to win. But it isn't everything. An when comparing players, you have to apply context. Pippen wasn't of equal importance to the Bulls than that of Jordan. He was a distant number 2 option as a scorer. And his claim to fame was on defense, and he didn't even always guard the best player(s). Jordan did it just as much as him.

Pippen isn't on any top 10 GOAT list despite the fact that he won just as much as anyone. There's a reason.

[TheMan]

You can't be serious. Tell me this was at least before Rodgers took over for Favre.

I used to listen to Cowherd in the mornings in San Diego back around 2008/2009 and yeah, he used to say he'd take Mark Sanchez over Aaron Rodgers because he claimed that Sanchez was a winner and Rodgers couldn't win when it counted. Favre was long gone by this point and the Packers were Rodger's team when the blowhard made those stupid remarks. Cowherd spews a lot of hot garbage and I got tired of his act.

[clayton]

http://image.24ur.com/media/images/600xX/Jan2010/60393328.jpg
Zero Finals MVP. As credible as the likes of Robert Horry and other ring leechers.

[NumberSix]

Obvi

[Sakkreth]

It's close though.

[TheMan]

Wade came back from a injury he was told not too for his team in 07 dumbass. Yes blame a guy for playing hurt sacrficed himself for his team and cost him to still be injured in 08. You a dumbass. Who cares if he relinquish his role? We already seen alpha dog Wade can do. He won a chamionship.:facepalm on having one of the best final perfomance ever. :facepalm You and your Pippen nonesense. He will never ever be better then Bird Magic or Wade

Did you just put Wade on Bird's and Magic's level? :no: Really?:facepalm

Look, I'm a Chicagoan just like Wade and am a fan of his but he ain't sniffing Top 5 GOAT status here:no:

[NumberSix]

It's close though.
It's not.

[ripthekik]

It's not.
numbersix.

[tpols]

Wade is probably slightly more impactful than Pippen in todays one on one league where theres no ball movement and one superstar is supposed to drive all game and score/assist.. but overall I think Pippen brought a much more intelligent and fluid feeling to the game.

LOL at people comparing defense.. Wade half asses it like every other superstar perimeter player in todays league all the time. He has never anchored a great defense.. has never even been on a top 5 defense until Lebron came to town.. Its a joke.:oldlol:

Take a look at the Bulls Defensive Ratings..

90- 19th
91- 7th
92- 4th
93- 7th
94- 6th
95- 2nd
96- 1st
97- 4th
98- 3rd

Look at the trend as Pippen became better and better the Bulls became better and better on the defensive side of the ball.. When MJ left Pippen started anchoring one of the most elite defenses in the league. Pippen has some of the highest individual defensive ratings ever. Years of..

97
98
99
99

Wade has cracked below 100 ONCE. Scottie had better D ratings than Hakeem, Drob, Ewing in their PRIMES.

Pippen is the GOAT perimeter defender and the best perimeter anchor of all time. Wade is not even close to his level on D.. just stop that.

Offensively? Wade is more talented at scoring.. although hes a HUGE beneficiary of the rule changes and constant FT baiting.. which is why its laughable that people use a 6 game sample to say Wade was a better 'alpha dog' when Wade was gifted 100 free throws.. the second most ever in a Finals Series behind early 00s Shaq. lol..

Pippen facilitated and brought more out of his teammates than Wade does.. He wasnt just drive and kick. He was a facilitator. A player who set guys up in their spots and moved the ball around to get everyone on the same page.. so that they would build confidence on offense and translate it to defense. Much better teammate and intangibles that cant be measured that have a HUGE effect on the game.

[HiphopRelated]

Wade is probably slightly more impactful than Pippen in todays one on one league where theres no ball movement and one superstar is supposed to drive all game and score/assist.. but overall I think Pippen brought a much more intelligent and fluid feeling to the game.
.
Wade is one of the best off ball players in the league so...

[AlphaWolf24]

Who's Colin Cowherd?

[detroitdogg]

Wade is probably slightly more impactful than Pippen in todays one on one league where theres no ball movement and one superstar is supposed to drive all game and score/assist.. but overall I think Pippen brought a much more intelligent and fluid feeling to the game.

LOL at people comparing defense.. Wade half asses it like every other superstar perimeter player in todays league all the time. He has never anchored a great defense.. has never even been on a top 5 defense until Lebron came to town.. Its a joke.:oldlol:

Take a look at the Bulls Defensive Ratings..

90- 19th
91- 7th
92- 4th
93- 7th
94- 6th
95- 2nd
96- 1st
97- 4th
98- 3rd

Look at the trend as Pippen became better and better the Bulls became better and better on the defensive side of the ball.. When MJ left Pippen started anchoring one of the most elite defenses in the league. Pippen has some of the highest individual defensive ratings ever. Years of..

97
98
99
99

Wade has cracked below 100 ONCE. Scottie had better D ratings than Hakeem, Drob, Ewing in their PRIMES.

Pippen is the GOAT perimeter defender and the best perimeter anchor of all time. Wade is not even close to his level on D.. just stop that.

Offensively? Wade is more talented at scoring.. although hes a HUGE beneficiary of the rule changes and constant FT baiting.. which is why its laughable that people use a 6 game sample to say Wade was a better 'alpha dog' when Wade was gifted 100 free throws.. the second most ever in a Finals Series behind early 00s Shaq. lol..

Pippen facilitated and brought more out of his teammates than Wade does.. He wasnt just drive and kick. He was a facilitator. A player who set guys up in their spots and moved the ball around to get everyone on the same page.. so that they would build confidence on offense and translate it to defense. Much better teammate and intangibles that cant be measured that have a HUGE effect on the game.
SMH, nygga you are ****ing stupid. The heat were a top 5 defensive team every year before Lebron and after Shaq, Wade anchored that defense every yer, stop making shit up and actually look before you say some bullshit. Name me 1 great defensive player on the Heat pre Lebron and post Shaq, you cant, Wade anchored that defense to the top 5 every single year, gtfoh lil nygga.

[Ikill]

He would be the best player on that team.
Even if he was shaq would still be the better scorer so he would the first option

[PJR]

Wade is no slouch on defense. He isn't Pippen on defense, no one was has claimed as such. But you cannot name a better help defender than Wade at the guard posistion since he entered the league.


Wade basically spearheaded a top defense with a dilapidated/washed up Jermaine O'Neal, Haslem, and Beasley(one of the worse defenders in the NBA) as his bigs. Wade can protect the rim like he's ****ing Tyson Chandler. And steal the ball at a level of Chris Paul. Prime Wade was giving the Heat a combined 3.5 steals/blks per game. As a 6'4 shooting guard. That is insane.

I would like to see Wade play in an era where he'd be allowed to handcheck with his freakish 6'11" wingspan.

[PJR]

And I gotta laugh at tpols.

Pippen is a better facilitator and defender than Kobe too, so I suppose you think he brings more to a team as well, huh?

**** outta here.

[willds09]

Who's Colin Cowherd?
Some sportscaster who always pauses wierdly after he think he says an groundbreaking statement :lol

[guy]

Right. But not until Olajuwan kicked his ass in 95.

No. Even at that point he was generally thought of as someone that underperformed in the playoffs in comparison to the regular season. Lebron by 09 at least had the 07 playoff run and that great Piston performance under his belt. Bottom line is David Robinson was never as regarded as high as Lebron was by 09. No one ever talked about Robinson as being potentially the GOAT. Its really ridiculous to even claim this .

[97 bulls]

SMH, nygga you are ****ing stupid. The heat were a top 5 defensive team every year before Lebron and after Shaq, Wade anchored that defense every yer, stop making shit up and actually look before you say some bullshit. Name me 1 great defensive player on the Heat pre Lebron and post Shaq, you cant, Wade anchored that defense to the top 5 every single year, gtfoh lil nygga.
Can you or anyone that agrees with you, post the Heats DRTG during Wades tenure?

[tpols]

And I gotta laugh at tpols.

Pippen is a better facilitator and defender than Kobe too, so I suppose you think he brings more to a team as well, huh?

**** outta here.
If I had a decent team like, the Hawks.. or Jazz and you told me I could have..

94 Pippen
09 Wade
08 Kobe

I would have a decently hard time deciding. I believe Kobe's impact is better than Wade's and Pippen's.. but not by much.

Pippen would take any of those teams and make them retarded good on defense. He would control the offense and stop guys from taking stupid shots.. good ball movement, no stagnant Josh smith Isos. And take that chemistry and apply it defensively. Hed give you ~24/9/7-8 in todays league..

Wade will give you that 30/6/6 on great efficiency and great help defense. Very consistent individual offense..

Kobe will give you 30+/6/6 on lesser efficiency and great man defense. He actually focused on defense that year extra hard because the offensive burden was somewhat lifted and there was extra effort to be spended on that side of the ball. Kobe was the vocal defensive leader on the 08 Lakers.. who were actually a top 5 defense. Less consistent than Wade on offense but more explosive.

Its funny PJR how you mentioned

Pippen's career high was 33 in the post-season. Wade has like 8 40+ point games in the post-season, alone.


40 point games
Kobe- 130
Wade- 35

50 Point Games
Kobe- 25
Wade- 3

60 Point Games
Kobe- 5
Wade- 0



And the difference you see there between Pippen and Wade is the one I see between Kobe and Wade. Wade doesnt have that extra gear.. His best<<Kobe's best. Wade watches stats.. he coddles his FG, and his ref baiting is the most well documented of any supertars ever. Its superficial.. dudes been out of the first round once in the weak east without Shaq or Bron.. and that was when he was a rookie and beat the Baron Davis led Hornets(when I actually liked his game).

06-07 Kobe had just as bad teams as 09 Wade and came within hairs of beating 1 and 2 seeded loaded western conference squads. Meanwhile Wade was losing to the fvcking hawks.. no way Kobe loses to the Hawks if he came that close to beating a much superior team.

[kNicKz]

Wade on the same level as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[PJR]

40 point games
Kobe- 130
Wade- 35

50 Point Games
Kobe- 25
Wade- 3

60 Point Games
Kobe- 5
Wade- 0



And the difference you see there between Pippen and Wade is the one I see between Kobe and Wade. Wade doesnt have that extra gear.. His best<<Kobe's best. Wade watches stats.. he coddles his FG, and his ref baiting is the most well documented of any supertars ever. Its superficial.. dudes been out of the first round once in the weak east without Shaq or Bron.. and that was when he was a rookie and beat the Baron Davis led Hornets(when I actually liked his game).


Yeah, I call bullshit. Wade's post-season play tells me otherwise.

And while I don't deny that Kobe has an extra gear as a scorer, how about you post their 40+ splits in the post-season(the real season), and consider Kobe has played 16 full seasons to Wade's 9 (and also consider Wade's injury period) and it's much closer than you would think.

Their career averages in both the regular season and post-season are idential, so clearly there isn't some insurmountable gap.

And miss me with this Wade coddles his field goal percentage crap. Yeah, he coddles it just like Kobe coddles his volume PPG.



06-07 Kobe had just as bad teams as 09 Wade and came within hairs of beating 1 and 2 seeded loaded western conference squads. Meanwhile Wade was losing to the fvcking hawks.. no way Kobe loses to the Hawks if he came that close to beating a much superior team.

Boy, please. Kobe played the Suns. Who were overrated as ****. And as we know about D'Antoni's and his philosphy, his teams were some of the biggest jokes defensivly. All things being equal, Wade would've cooked that team individually, and came up short. Just like Kobe. So miss me with that.

The 2007 Suns had BORIS DIAW as a starting center. Zero rim protection. Wade would've feasted on that team. :roll:

No way Kobe loses to the Hawks in 2009? Same supporting cast? Same circumstance? Yeah, I call more bullshit. Wade put up 29-5-5 that series. And his starting center missed game 7 with a concussion. What more would've Kobe done? Nothin. And the Hawks were actually an above average defensive team unlike the Suns.

[Legends66NBA7]

Did you just put Wade on Bird's and Magic's level? :no: Really?:facepalm

Look, I'm a Chicagoan just like Wade and am a fan of his but he ain't sniffing Top 5 GOAT status here:no:


Wade on the same level as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Both of you misread the post.

juju isn't saying Wade is on Bird or Magic's level. He knows that 97 bulls said somewhere that Pippen is on or better than Bird and Magic. What he said that Pippen isn't better than Bird, Magic, or Wade... not that Wade is on their level. He is saying Pippen isn't better than any of them.

[eurobum]

Bosh is just a jumpshooter for Miami. He's better than Grant but not by much, on this team.

You cannot be serious? Yes, he's under-utilized, but him being "slightly" better on this team than Grant for the first three preat Bulls is a joke. Horace Grant was solid and consistent at rebounding and defending and could hit open mid range Js created by Pippen and Jordan, but when did he ever drop 30 multiple times during the regular season AND playoffs. "Not by much," LOL please.

[Ikill]

Can you or anyone that agrees with you, post the Heats DRTG during Wades tenure?
Wade had only one other good defensive player in 09 and 10 and his teams finished 11th and 6th. Pippens a better defender but Wades edge on offence is much bigger than Pippens edge on defense.

[fpliii]

There's no question in my mind Wade will give you a better chance of winning at least one championship as your best player, but beyond that it's tricky.

Pip captained the offense and defense for a good portion of that Bulls dynasty (note: I'm not saying he was the best player on both ends, just that it was his responsibility to run both sides of the ball on a team level). I mean, how many players on championship teams can you say this about in league history? Maybe:

[Jolokia]

Yeah, I call bullshit. Wade's post-season play tells me otherwise.

And while I don't deny that Kobe has an extra gear as a scorer, how about you post their 40+ splits in the post-season(the real season), and consider Kobe has played 16 full seasons to Wade's 9 (and also consider Wade's injury period) and it's much closer than you would think.

Their career averages in both the regular season and post-season are idential, so clearly there isn't some insurmountable gap.

And miss me with this Wade coddles his field goal percentage crap. Yeah, he coddles it just like Kobe coddles his volume PPG.




Boy, please. Kobe played the Suns. Who were overrated as ****. And as we know about D'Antoni's and his philosphy, his teams were some of the biggest jokes defensivly. All things being equal, Wade would've cooked that team individually, and came up short. Just like Kobe. So miss me with that.

The 2007 Suns had BORIS DIAW as a starting center. Zero rim protection. Wade would've feasted on that team. :roll:

No way Kobe loses to the Hawks in 2009? Same supporting cast? Same circumstance. Yeah, I call bullshit. Wade put up 29-5-5 that series. And his starting center miss game 7 with a concussion. What more would've Kobe done? Nothin. And the Hawks were actually an above average defensive team unlike the Suns.
:applause:

Let's just agree that:

Kobe is the more deadlier scorer because of his shooting ability but Wade can get higher % baskets with his slashing. Kobe makes free-throws.
Wade and Kobe are comparable on total offense with Wade being more willing to pass.
They both play defense a little differently and are great at what they do.
But they both need a great team to win championships. Nothing new here.

[Whoah10115]

You cannot be serious? Yes, he's under-utilized, but him being "slightly" better on this team than Grant for the first three preat Bulls is a joke. Horace Grant was solid and consistent at rebounding and defending and could hit open mid range Js created by Pippen and Jordan, but when did he ever drop 30 multiple times during the regular season AND playoffs. "Not by much," LOL please.


You're taking that way too literally. It was a point about Bosh's impact for this team and not his actual play. His play is limited and his rebounding is inexcusable, but I understand he's still playing well and that he's playing better than Grant. But a guy like Grant would be much more valuable than Bosh is to this team. Grant never shot under 50% and had a great 15footer, was a better rebounder, and one of the best defenders of the era. He was also a great shot-blocker at the 4. Bosh plays better on the Heat and has games where he shows his talent, but his usefulness on the Heat is kinda blah.

[Jolokia]

[QUOTE=fpliii]There's no question in my mind Wade will give you a better chance of winning at least one championship as your best player, but beyond that it's tricky.

Pip captained the offense and defense for a good portion of that Bulls dynasty (note: I'm not saying he was the best player on both ends, just that it was his responsibility to run both sides of the ball on a team level). I mean, how many players on championship teams can you say this about in league history? Maybe:

[fpliii]

KG? Jason Kidd? They won in their later years but they were important on both sides throughout their careers.

Well, I'm talking about their championship seasons.

KG if he won during his peak years would have a shot since he handled the ball a good deal (particularly when Cassell went down). Kidd was always a great positional defender, but he didn't have the size/length to truly anchor a defense.

[97 bulls]

Wade had only one other good defensive player in 09 and 10 and his teams finished 11th and 6th. Pippens a better defender but Wades edge on offence is much bigger than Pippens edge on defense.
In 95, The Bulls DRTG was ranked 2 in the league. They had no inside presence, BJ Armstrong at PG, Pete Myers and Pippen. He anchored the number two ranked defense in the league, Like a dominant center. Wade has nowhere near the defensive impact of Pippen.

[Jolokia]

In 95, The Bulls DRTG was ranked 2 in the league. They had no inside presence, BJ Armstrong at PG, Pete Myers and Pippen. He anchored the number two ranked defense in the league, Like a dominant center. Wade has nowhere near the defensive impact of Pippen.
In 98, Bulls were #3 but in 99, the Rockets were #16 with Pippen. :confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

In 95, The Bulls DRTG was ranked 2 in the league. They had no inside presence, BJ Armstrong at PG, Pete Myers and Pippen. He anchored the number two ranked defense in the league, Like a dominant center. Wade has nowhere near the defensive impact of Pippen.
Nowhere near? :facepalm Still the difference between their offence is still much bigger than the gap between their defense

[juju151111]

Both of you misread the post.

juju isn't saying Wade is on Bird or Magic's level. He knows that 97 bulls said somewhere that Pippen is on or better than Bird and Magic. What he said that Pippen isn't better than Bird, Magic, or Wade... not that Wade is on their level. He is saying Pippen isn't better than any of them.
:applause: pretty much

[Ikill]

40 point games
Kobe- 130
Wade- 35

50 Point Games
Kobe- 25
Wade- 3

60 Point Games
Kobe- 5
Wade- 0



And the difference you see there between Pippen and Wade is the one I see between Kobe and Wade. Wade doesnt have that extra gear.. His best<<Kobe's best. Wade watches stats.. he coddles his FG, and his ref baiting is the most well documented of any supertars ever. Its superficial.. dudes been out of the first round once in the weak east without Shaq or Bron.. and that was when he was a rookie and beat the Baron Davis led Hornets(when I actually liked his game).

06-07 Kobe had just as bad teams as 09 Wade and came within hairs of beating 1 and 2 seeded loaded western conference squads. Meanwhile Wade was losing to the fvcking hawks.. no way Kobe loses to the Hawks if he came that close to beating a much superior team.
Wade doesn't have an extra gear? 2005 and 2006 playoffs 2010 vs Boston 2011 vs Boston Dallas 2012 vs Indiana those are just playoff series too. Wade did not coddle his fg% when he was in his prime and his ref baiting only got really bad last year when he was struggling with injuries. He didn't get out of the first round without Shaq or Lebron is true but its still a weak point. What are you trying to prove by saying Wade couldn't get out of the first round is that he needs a second star to make deep playoff runs. just because Wade didn't make it out of the first round with a terrible team does not mean he needs a star to make a deep playoff run. Two completely different things. Yes Kobe most likely does not lose to the 09 Hawks but a healthy Wade wouldn't either Wade was having back problems that series.

Is kobes 40 50 60 point games supposed to be your proof that he can take it to an extra gear and Wade. Kobe ends up with those huge scoring games cause he takes a lot more shots than Wade does.

[Euroleague]

Wade on the same level as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Wait......who said that?

[juju151111]

In 98, Bulls were #3 but in 99, the Rockets were #16 with Pippen. :confusedshrug:
Pippen barley played in 1998 and was still not playing at a high level all that year. The bulls still were 3rd through. Lmao at people getting this madness about Pippen. Yes Pip ids a amazing defender but one man can't make a defense great its a team effort. Also let's stop the BS like Wade is some bad defender. He is a good defender and is top 2 all time for blocking at the SG position. I think he had a 100 stls and a 100 blocks season too. Lol 97 bulls on that pipe

[juju151111]

Wade doesn't have an extra gear? 2005 and 2006 playoffs 2010 vs Boston 2011 vs Boston Dallas 2012 vs Indiana those are just playoff series too. Wade did not coddle his fg% when he was in his prime and his ref baiting only got really bad last year when he was struggling with injuries. He didn't get out of the first round without Shaq or Lebron is true but its still a weak point. What are you trying to prove by saying Wade couldn't get out of the first round is that he needs a second star to make deep playoff runs. just because Wade didn't make it out of the first round with a terrible team does not mean he needs a star to make a deep playoff run. Two completely different things. Yes Kobe most likely does not lose to the 09 Hawks but a healthy Wade wouldn't either Wade was having back problems that series.

Is kobes 40 50 60 point games supposed to be your proof that he can take it to an extra gear and Wade. Kobe ends up with those huge scoring games cause he takes a lot more shots than Wade does.
Wade got out of the first round in his rookie season:wtf:

[97 bulls]

Pippen barley played in 1998 and was still not playing at a high level all that year. The bulls still were 3rd through. Lmao at people getting this madness about Pippen. Yes Pip ids a amazing defender but one man can't make a defense great its a team effort. Also let's stop the BS like Wade is some bad defender. He is a good defender and is top 2 all time for blocking at the SG position. I think he had a 100 stls and a 100 blocks season too. Lol 97 bulls on that pipe
One man cant win a championship by himself. But you have no problem crediting players with that distinction.

[juju151111]

One man cant win a championship by himself. But you have no problem crediting players with that distinction.
You the clown comparing Pippen to people he obviously not better then. :facepalm