The Thunder have no offense.

[Clifton]

They've fooled me for years.

Their players are so young, and so good, and so naturally active, that it's easy to miss.

But they actually have NO offense. Watching them followed up by the Nuggets has made this very obvious.

There are never more than 2 players moving at one time. They set the weakest picks I have seen in my life (and I have refereed 3rd graders' leagues). All they do is force feed Durant on the wing, or have Westbrook make something up (if Westbrook hasn't already shot it).

Westbrook's high assist stats are evidence of this. It's because the Thunder are a one-pass offense. Westbrook breaks through the first line - meets more opposition - passes the basketball. If that guy isn't open, the Thunder have nothing; you don't see 3, 4, 5 crisp passes lead to a wide open shot or layup like you routinely do with the Spurs.

And it doesn't *seem* to affect him (because he's that damn good), but Westbrook almost never gets the ball in stride unless he's in transition; every time Parker brings up the ball he passes it then runs around 2-3 screens, gets the ball, then someone *sprints* up to him and sets a *great* pick. That's the beginning of every Spurs possession. Imagine how much better Westbrook would be if the halfgame looked like that for him.

This team is great as it is, and could win a title any year, but they're seriously being held back by inept (I might say nonexistent) coaching.

Scott Brooks is the coach for that team; they'll never fire a guy who has great relationships with his players and who wins 60 games every year. But they really need to hire an assistant coach who excels at Xs and Os. What is Eddie Jordan up to these days?

[Bosnian Sajo]

:roll:

[kNicKz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif

[9erempiree]

Pretty much agree.

Westbrook top of the key, dribble drive and pull up.

Durant on the wing, high screen and drive to the rim or pull up.

Very hard to watch and Durant isn't the greatest playmaker in the world. He has 2 assist career average.

[Greg Oden 50]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif

:applause:

[Mr. Incredible]

Vastly overrated. I hope the Heat face them in the Finals again. They don't worry me one bit.

[Clifton]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif
:oldlol:

I'm glad they won tonight so I don't look like some hasty reactionary. They could win the title the next two years and this would still be true. Pop would have this team pushing 70 wins yearly. Especially since they're blessed with good health.

[Celtic_Pride]

They set the weakest picks I have seen in my life


You definitely haven't seen Perkins set screens.

He is the reason Ray Allen used to get open shots when they played together with the Celtics. He is also the reason the skinny weak Kevin Durant is being able to free himself!

Dude is the best pick setter right now in the league

[Clifton]

You definitely haven't seen Perkins set screens.
Oh no I have. I love Perk. I love Perk even now (*after* it's cool).

That's something he brought with him though. Everyone else on the roster sets horrible, "just-going-through-the-motions" screens. Sometimes they don't even wait for the ballhandler to get there before they break up the play and sort of drift away.

My high school coach would've benched you for the rest of the game for just one of those. Insisting your players set quality screens are one of the "pesky" parts of being a coach - the parts that distinguish the real coach from the guy who's paid to placate and ride the coattails of his superstars (to mediocrity, usually).

[brandonislegend]

I see Westbrick was in full force tonight.

[Celtic_Pride]

Part of the reason, they don't have an offense is none of the players on that roster is a true playmaker. They got away with pure talent last WCF. But I seriously doubt they can beat healthy Spurs this time again though!


Oh no I have. I love Perk. I love Perk even now (*after* it's cool).

That's something he brought with him though. Everyone else on the roster sets horrible, "just-going-through-the-motions" screens. Sometimes they don't even wait for the ballhandler to get there before they break up the play and sort of drift away.


I agree

[Whoah10115]

No, OP...you're very wrong.


Brooks has done a terrific job with them. Westbrook was drafted as their PG and they're winning with him at PG, and he's actually been great, despite playing out of position. They don't get to where they are, the way they're constructed, if Brooks doesn't do a great job.


Besides the fact that they do get a lot of ref help (on both sides, as Ibaka is a straight hack), they have the benefit of single coverage. I'm sorry, but it isn't just tonight. Durant does not get double-teamed. Neither does Westbrook. I'm trying to understand why.

[Clifton]

Part of the reason, they don't have an offense is none of the players on that roster is a true playmaker.
Nobody on the Spurs is a playmaker either. Everyone on the Thunder is a reasonably smart player and a decent passer. Some are great at moving without the ball; all are at least decent.

But they aren't consistently in motion. It's the coach's job to make sure the offense doesn't stagnate; and if it does, to correct the problem. Brooks just leans on his stars.


Brooks has done a terrific job with them. Westbrook was drafted as their PG and they're winning with him at PG, and he's actually been great, despite playing out of position.
Brooks isn't awful. The team plays good defense, they're all happy and playing together, etc. He's integrated Martin perfectly.

But the fact remains that their offense has no motion.

[jimmy77x]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif

:roll: :roll:

[Whoah10115]

Nobody on the Spurs is a playmaker either. Everyone on the Thunder is a reasonably smart player and a decent passer. Some are great at moving without the ball; all are at least decent.

But they aren't consistently in motion. It's the coach's job to make sure the offense doesn't stagnate; and if it does, to correct the problem. Brooks just leans on his stars.


Brooks isn't awful. The team plays good defense, they're all happy and playing together, etc. He's integrated Martin perfectly.

But the fact remains that their offense has no motion.



The Spurs have two, out and out and playmakers. Parker is not a great passer but, even as a scorer, he's a true PG. He's a solid floor general, executes the offense and keeps the ball moving. Manu is a dynamic playmaker and combo guard, who is also one of the best passers in the league's history. Plus, Duncan is still a very good passer and a big man in the post who you can run some offense thru and who can help facilitate and makes others better.


The Thunder don't have any of those things. They had the Manu part, tho Harden wasn't as good as Manu is at those things. There isn't one true playmaker on OKC, nor is there anyone on that team who is a great passer.

[Dro]

Nobody on the Spurs is a playmaker either. Everyone on the Thunder is a reasonably smart player and a decent passer. Some are great at moving without the ball; all are at least decent.

But they aren't consistently in motion. It's the coach's job to make sure the offense doesn't stagnate; and if it does, to correct the problem. Brooks just leans on his stars.


Brooks isn't awful. The team plays good defense, they're all happy and playing together, etc. He's integrated Martin perfectly.

But the fact remains that their offense has no motion.
:biggums:

[tazb]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif
:roll: Basically this.

[ClutchOver9000]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif

:oldlol:

[game3524]

Yeah, they have no offense.

It is just ISO Westbrook or Durant and they can get away with it in the WC since they are far more talented then everyone else. When they face a team like Miami who has equal/more talent they get smoked.

[brandonislegend]

Nobody on the Spurs is a playmaker either. Everyone on the Thunder is a reasonably smart player and a decent passer. Some are great at moving without the ball; all are at least decent.

But they aren't consistently in motion. It's the coach's job to make sure the offense doesn't stagnate; and if it does, to correct the problem. Brooks just leans on his stars.


Brooks isn't awful. The team plays good defense, they're all happy and playing together, etc. He's integrated Martin perfectly.

But the fact remains that their offense has no motion.

Except there offense is unguardable because none of them are selfish and go ISO because they know their coach will bench them, and they have 3 playmakers....

[Lebron23]

They need a low post scorer. They need to trade for Al Jefferson in the off season. AJ just turned 28 yrs.old.

Jefferson, Ibaka, Durant, Martin and Russell Westbrook is a good lineup.

[Graviton]

Is this news? Brooks is the same old cliche "inspirational" coach that says the most corny one liners in time outs and has Durant/Westbrook basically go 1 on 5 every time the game is close. There are no picks or concept of ball movement, no real offensive plan, just ISO Durant and ISO Westbrook while everyone stands around doing absolutely nothing.

They will never be a real championship monster if the coach keeps riding their talents. Even Spoelstra got better and implemented an offense focused on spacing and ball movement. Brooks is yet to do jack shit.

Tonight Westbrook, Ibaka and Durant got banged up and sucked in the 2nd half. Brooks had the same gameplan regardless of their struggles, shoulda lost the game.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, the #1 offense in basketball and one of the best offenses in history...has no offense. lol

[Graviton]

Yeah, the #1 offense in basketball and one of the best offenses in history...has no offense. lol
That's based on their talents alone, blowing out garbage teams and beating most "good" teams as well. But when they face a better coached team like Heat that actually matches their talent, they have no answer.

They are not good because of some amazing coaching, their best players are 23-24 year old stars that play hard every night and almost never miss games, that's a good recipe for a high scoring offense, but it doesn't make it unstoppable.

[Hoopz2332]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif


:oldlol:

[ihoopallday]

They need a low post scorer. They need to trade for Al Jefferson in the off season. AJ just turned 28 yrs.old.

Jefferson, Ibaka, Durant, Martin and Russell Westbrook is a good lineup.

:wtf: :wtf: That's a championship lineup. Seriously, they would match up well with anyone. That's OKC's only weakness. A go to big man. Durant needs to work on his post game this summer. He'd be unstoppable.

[I.R.Beast]

of the elite teams the thunder have arguably the weakest support players... thy have a weak bench and they lack an inside presence and outside shooting...they have 2 shooters...1 being Durant and Martin being the other. Scott Brooks has done a really good job when you consider how lacking this team is outside of westbrook and durant. However i think he's done a bad job getting his rookies acclimated to the game.... Lamb and Jones could have been useful come playoff time had they gotten enough PT throughout the season.

[KG215]

No, OP...you're very wrong.


Brooks has done a terrific job with them. Westbrook was drafted as their PG and they're winning with him at PG, and he's actually been great, despite playing out of position. They don't get to where they are, the way they're constructed, if Brooks doesn't do a great job.


Besides the fact that they do get a lot of ref help (on both sides, as Ibaka is a straight hack), they have the benefit of single coverage. I'm sorry, but it isn't just tonight. Durant does not get double-teamed. Neither does Westbrook. I'm trying to understand why.
Sorry, but the bold is wrong.

[maybeshewill13]

Yeah, the highest scoring team in the league has no offense.. :rolleyes:

negged.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I'd love to know your thoughts on the Knicks' offense. I swear, without Melo/Felton/JR getting hot they look absolutely woeful. They scored 94 tonight, and JR Smith had his best game of the season hitting ridiculous pull-up 3s. I suppose Melo was out, but even then he just seems to iso a lot of the time.

[Wonder Bread Kid]

Yeah, the highest scoring team in the league has no offense.. :rolleyes:

negged.

The Rockets?

You know the Rockets are the highest scoring team in the NBA.

You going to neg yourself?

[bdreason]

ISO and get to the FT line is their offense.

[All Net]

Thunder generally have a great offense against most. The only time it can be abit flawed is when facing Miami who play the same style but simply do it better..thats the only difference. Any team that has Durant/Westbrook will generally have a great offense.

[Midnight Toker]

I fail to see how a team that averages 105 ppg and has a 31-9 record vs the WEST somehow has no offense. I guess if they had an offense they'd score 130 a game? Non sequitur.

If having no offense means 3rd best record in the league and annual trips deep in the playoffs, I'll take it.

[Clifton]

I'd love to know your thoughts on the Knicks' offense. I swear, without Melo/Felton/JR getting hot they look absolutely woeful.
I have no idea what happened to it. Early in the season when they had Sheed, they were great. There was a ton of movement, players were sprinting to open shots, they'd lob in to Chandler all the time. It was a joy to watch. I guess they got tired of having open shots and being successful, because now they just put the ball in Felton's hands to force something ugly, or Melo/JR for inefficient one-on-one play.

[Clifton]

I fail to see how a team that averages 105 ppg and has a 31-9 record vs the WEST somehow has no offense.
Put down your calculator and watch the game.

[ThunderKat]

Yeah, probably should just shut the team down and send Durant and Westbrook to the D league until they can learn to run a "true" offense.

[Clifton]

To be clear, when I say they have no offense, I'm not saying they can't score. I'm saying they have no offensive scheme. They have great players, and Brooks has done a decent job of defining roles. Bringing Harden/Martin off the bench, and the way he integrates them, is perfect. He puts great lineups out on the floor (some coaches like Thibs and K McH struggle with this).

But when the conference Finals and Finals come around and they're getting outclassed again, OKC fans will wish their team was in the habit of being in motion and getting open and making hockey assists. It's tough to win with the offense the Thunder have especially when you have no post scorers. You can come close (as Bron's Cavs did) but it's tough to actually win it.

[Midnight Toker]

Put down your calculator and watch the game.

You mean the game OKC won against the #2 east team? They arent 45-16 averaging 105 ppg and aptly defeating their opponents because their offense sucks.

[Thechosen1]

I fail to see how a team that averages 105 ppg and has a 31-9 record vs the WEST somehow has no offense. I guess if they had an offense they'd score 130 a game? Non sequitur.

If having no offense means 3rd best record in the league and annual trips deep in the playoffs, I'll take it.


clippers score alot of points, and their offense is total shit


it happens

[Dro]

Thunder fans getting awfully defensive....Anybody who watches their games can see that its iso Durant or iso Westbrook, THATS IT...Yes it works because those 2 are superstars...Does that mean they have a good offensive SYSTEM? Of course it does not, which is why they struggle against a great defensive team like Miami that can double and then rotate quickly...

[Midnight Toker]

clippers score alot of points, and their offense is total shit


it happens

If not having an offense means they are still scoring 105ppg, having the 3rd best record in the league, i'll take it.

[Dro]

If not having an offense means they are still scoring 105ppg, having the 3rd best record in the league, i'll take it.
Its almost like you're in denial. Do you not know the difference between having great individual offensive players and having a good offensive SCHEME? Its been broken down in this thread by multiple people..Its not that difficult to understand really....There's no reason for Thunder fans to be defensive. Nobody in here is shitting on them, people have explained why with logic...

[Clifton]

You mean the game OKC won against the #2 east team? They arent 45-16 averaging 105 ppg and aptly defeating their opponents because their offense sucks.

If not having an offense means they are still scoring 105ppg, having the 3rd best record in the league, i'll take it.
The Thunder are in the championship business, not the regular season business. Every year they don't win a title for the next decade is a failed season. They're a nearly perfect team, and in many ways Brooks coaches them well.

But again - look at the Spurs, who have a *better* record. They can lose Parker or Duncan and still beat anyone. I have seen 6 of their 7 best players sit out a national TV game and nearly knock off the defending champs. And it's because they move without the ball and are coached brilliantly. The Thunder are a great team that could and should be better. No fan should be complacent about his team's weaknesses; he should want them purged so his team can be even better.

[DirkNowitzki41]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sportacademy/bsp/hi/basketball/rules/scoring/img/free_throw_line.gif

/thread

[Midnight Toker]

Its almost like you're in denial. Do you not know the difference between having great individual offensive players and having a good offensive SCHEME? Its been broken down in this thread by multiple people..Its not that difficult to understand really....There's no reason for Thunder fans to be defensive. Nobody in here is shitting on them, people have explained why with logic...

Well I know the difference between saying a team's offense sucks, and a team's offensive scheme sucks, which is not the wording that was used in the OP. OP clearly stated the oklahoma offense sucks, which I dispute.

[Clifton]

Well I know the difference between saying a team's offense sucks, and a team's offensive scheme sucks, which is not the wording that was used in the OP. OP clearly stated the oklahoma offense sucks, which I dispute.
As for the title, "offense" used to refer to offensive scheme is common. (At least I think so; I'm using the parlance my coach used with me.) As for my actual OP, if you had read it, there is no way you could think I was saying the team was ineffective on offense and couldn't score. Everything I said had to do with offensive schematics and off-ball motion and a childish reliance on sheer talent on the part of their coach at times. Nowhere did I say they couldn't or didn't put points on the board.

[Dro]

Well I know the difference between saying a team's offense sucks, and a team's offensive scheme sucks, which is not the wording that was used in the OP. OP clearly stated the oklahoma offense sucks, which I dispute.
And yet, the OP and others have been explaining very clearly what they meant for the past few pages...

[Eat Like A Bosh]

They've fooled me for years.

Their players are so young, and so good, and so naturally active, that it's easy to miss.

But they actually have NO offense. Watching them followed up by the Nuggets has made this very obvious.

There are never more than 2 players moving at one time. They set the weakest picks I have seen in my life (and I have refereed 3rd graders' leagues). All they do is force feed Durant on the wing, or have Westbrook make something up (if Westbrook hasn't already shot it).

Westbrook's high assist stats are evidence of this. It's because the Thunder are a one-pass offense. Westbrook breaks through the first line - meets more opposition - passes the basketball. If that guy isn't open, the Thunder have nothing; you don't see 3, 4, 5 crisp passes lead to a wide open shot or layup like you routinely do with the Spurs.

And it doesn't *seem* to affect him (because he's that damn good), but Westbrook almost never gets the ball in stride unless he's in transition; every time Parker brings up the ball he passes it then runs around 2-3 screens, gets the ball, then someone *sprints* up to him and sets a *great* pick. That's the beginning of every Spurs possession. Imagine how much better Westbrook would be if the halfgame looked like that for him.

This team is great as it is, and could win a title any year, but they're seriously being held back by inept (I might say nonexistent) coaching.

Scott Brooks is the coach for that team; they'll never fire a guy who has great relationships with his players and who wins 60 games every year. But they really need to hire an assistant coach who excels at Xs and Os. What is Eddie Jordan up to these days?
I kinda agree. The Thunder offense becomes fairly predictable late game. Either Durant/Westbrook ISO from top of the key, drive to the rim or pull up, or the same thing except with Durant starting off the wing instead, and dish to whoever gets open if they get doubled. Or Durant coming off a screen for a jumper. Not a lot of off-ball movement from other guys. They win teams by overwhelming teams with their talent/youth/athleticism. So when they meet a team like Miami, they really have no advantage over them.