Lets Be Real: Biggie Was Never 2Pac's Level

[SilkkTheShocker]

I like Biggie and all, but its sad these two are always linked. Pac's body of work speaks for itself. I don't even see how Biggie is close to him.

[Just2McFly]

Repped

[SilkkTheShocker]

Repped

:bowdown:

[BRabbiT]

i enjoy Biggie's songs more.


but Tupac was more intelligent and more financially successful.

Tupac's career > Biggie's career

[Clifton]

Most people say Biggie was "better." That may be true but I always preferred Tupac.

Ever notice how Pac rhymed the last two syllables of every line? How often do you get that without forced, overthought-out and boring lyrics?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Most people say Biggie was "better." That may be true but I always preferred Tupac.

Ever notice how Pac rhymed the last two syllables of every line? How often do you get that without forced, overthought-out and boring lyrics?

they do?

[HardwoodLegend]

Both of them are boring to me.

Predictable flows and repetitive content.

[-p.tiddy-]

Biggie was WAY more talented...not even close either

"Sippin Hennessy, In the penitentiary, FEEEEEL MEEE!...Ridddah!!"

^^^ that pretty much sums up Pacs lyrics

[MMM]

Pac was more influential and had a more substantive message but I enjoyed BIG as a rapper. I prefered his flow along with hardcore content but Pac was a better MC. Just a completely different style a similar comparison for me is DMX and Nas. I enjoy both but while Nas says more important things I like DMX's darkness, realness(though they are both real), etc.

[ace23]

Both of them are boring to me.

Predictable flows and repetitive content.
Who do you listen to?

[Clifton]

they do?
I don't think I've ever heard anyone really argue it out and conclude that Tupac was a better rapper.

People like Tupac because of his intensity. He was fairly repetitive though, and lyrically not as rich as Biggie.

Still, though, I have 0 interest in Biggie. He's boring to me.

But so can Tupac be if you have more than one CD's worth of songs of his.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Biggie was WAY more talented...not even close either

"Sippin Hennessy, In the penitentiary, FEEEEEL MEEE!...Ridddah!!"

^^^ that pretty much sums up Pacs lyrics


Lyrically he was better. But 2Pac was way more talented in general. He could rap about anything, wrote a screenplay, wrote poetry, and was a good actor.

[L.Kizzle]

Lyrically he was better. But 2Pac was way more talented in general. He could rap about anything, wrote a screenplay, wrote poetry, and was a good actor.
Guess someone doesn't remember BIG's special guest appearance on Martin.

[Kews1]

Biggies better

[SilkkTheShocker]

Guess someone doesn't remember BIG's special guest appearance on Martin.

I watched it about month ago. I have every season of Martin on DVD :pimp: 2pac's acting in Above The Rim, Juice, and Poetic Justice s.hits on anything Biggie was in

[SilkkTheShocker]

Damn 6 neon reds? Legendary troll status.


Was not even aware you could have 11 red bars. I still fully believe I will be back to green bars in the next few weeks.

[ballup]

We're aren't real!?!?!?! My life has been turned upside down. :(

[Loneshot]

This is really true. I never understood the comparison.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

This is really true. I never understood the comparison.
:applause:

[hateraid]

They aren't really linked due to body of work, they are linked because

A- They instigated the whole East vs West
B- They both were murdered

[SilkkTheShocker]

They aren't really linked due to body of work, they are linked because

A- They instigated the whole East vs West
B- They both were murdered
Agreed. But I don't believe Biggy is a worthy consideration. Biggie isn't even as good as Jay-Z.

[L.Kizzle]

In related news.

http://i1.wp.com/www.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/snoop-suge-via-instagram.jpg

[Loneshot]

I really can't list ten great Biggie tracks. While with Pac, limiting myself to ten would be hard. Pac was greater in every way. They may be linked due to the beef, but the deaths of them led to people elevating both, while really Biggie wasn't on Pac's level.

[MMM]

damn some of you cats are underrating BIG, not sure how anyone can put Jay over him but to be frank i'm not a fan of most of Jay Z's work, to me he sounds like a water down version of too many other rappers whether it is Kane, BIG, or G Rap

[L.Kizzle]

People rank Pac over Biggie for their output. Big put out 2 albums (3 if you count Junior Mafia) and 1 more after his death. Pac put out 5 albums (6 if you count Thug Life) and I don't even have to mention his material after death.

[bdreason]

I think Tupac's body of work is much better than Biggie's. I'm kind of biased though because I was raised listening to Pac.

[imnew09]

It was more of the West and East. Biggie was the best from the East while Pac was the best from the west.

[mrpuente]

ok how old are some of you?

dudes in here talking about how biggie wasnt on pac's level? :facepalm

biggie >> pac

[pauk]

I liked listening to Biggie more, i dont know but Biggie felt kindof more naturally gifted (especially with his flow & voice)... he would just pick up a mic, create and kill.... check out this 17 year old Biggie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qugEIjuB5PI

For him it was all about hiphop/rap, he was more down to earth.... Tupac though, dude was a clown :)

[macmac]

Obviously B Real would say that, he's a vato from California

[Just2McFly]

Pac was better at everything other than lyrical complexity and story telling. I've always prefered rappers who could make you connect to a song emotionally over guys who has flashier styles. Rappers like Pac, Kanye, Dmx and J. Cole might not be the best technically but their songs make people feel something which is what matters.

Also there are multiple elements of rapping that Pac was better than biggie. Pac understood the power of diff

[Kblaze8855]

me against the world is the only album he really approached biggies average level.

Pac was about energy and personality. Especially once he got all thug life....

A song like....you can't see me...classic because of how much energy he had. he wasnt rapping any better than ace hood. Worse perhaps.

Comparing the two is like asking if James Brown is a better singer than Sam Cooke. He's a more influential figure....but he wasn't big because of his singing. Sure he did Mans World.....he also mumbled for 40 years.

Pac is a legendary package.....Biggie is a rapper.

[brownmamba00]

pac is better but saying big isn't even on his level is retarded

I'll take Ready to Die over every pac album there is besides All Eyez On Me

[Bigsmoke]

both were really talented but Biggie only had 2 albums so Pac wins by default.

Nas is the G.O.A.T. anyway.

[GOBB]

2 different styles, hard to compare. I liked both for different reasons. To say neither was on the other level is silly.


Biggie was WAY more talented...not even close either

"Sippin Hennessy, In the penitentiary, FEEEEEL MEEE!...Ridddah!!"

^^^ that pretty much sums up Pacs lyrics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sw7mrz8RV4

Sounds nothing like what you typed. :confusedshrug:

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Yea comparing is hard. Biggie was more about punchlines and lyrical complexity, while Pac was more about getting a crowd pumped up and affecting people's emotions. Pac had one of the best voices for what he did, it just commanded your attention. Biggie was just smooth and flowed effortlessly.

[andremiller07]

Great punchlines/bars > story telling/swag, its the same old story over and over about the same struggle......yawn......I like to here a crazy punchline which makes me think o wow that actually had great thought go into it and required thinking.

Not really a big fan of ethier tbh, both I guess they were the biggest names in hip hop and without them there would not be a lot of the rappers I use to listen to when rap was good, but I always prefered guys like Chino XL who could story tell but had insane lyrics/disses to back it up as well.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Biggie was WAY more talented...not even close either

"Sippin Hennessy, In the penitentiary, FEEEEEL MEEE!...Ridddah!!"

^^^ that pretty much sums up Pacs lyrics
Pretty pathetic you had to pick out a song that wasn't even supposed to be released and to further your point, you had to butcher the lyrics. :applause:

[Kblaze8855]

Had to go listen to some Big...



Here's a criminal, ***** made America's
Most
Killed his baby mother brother, slit his
throat
The ***** got bagged with the toast
Weeded, took it to trial, beat it
Now he feel he undefeated, he mean it
Nothing to lose tattooed around his gun
wounds
everything to gain, embedded in his brain
And me I feel the same for this money and
diamonds
Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin


Big was too raw...

[MMM]

Had to go listen to some Big...



Here's a criminal, ***** made America's
Most
Killed his baby mother brother, slit his
throat
The ***** got bagged with the toast
Weeded, took it to trial, beat it
Now he feel he undefeated, he mean it
Nothing to lose tattooed around his gun
wounds
everything to gain, embedded in his brain
And me I feel the same for this money and
diamonds
Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin


Big was too raw...

I love the third verse of the song

[HardwoodLegend]

Rappers like Pac, Kanye, Dmx and J. Cole might not be the best technically but their songs make people feel something which is what matters.

Kanye and J. Cole are head and shoulders above Pac and DMX technically.

Lot more clever wordplay and intricate rhyming schemes while conveying their concepts with mad clarity.

[SilkkTheShocker]

ok how old are some of you?

dudes in here talking about how biggie wasnt on pac's level? :facepalm

biggie >> pac


He wasn't. Pac changed rap. As mentioned, Biggie gets compared to Tupac because thats the best the East had to offer at the time of East/West war. And like I said, Biggie isn't even as good as Jay-Z. And as much as I like Jay, he isn't touching Pac.

[SilkkTheShocker]

pac is better but saying big isn't even on his level is retarded

I'll take Ready to Die over every pac album there is besides All Eyez On Me


I would listen to All Eyez On Me, Me Against The World, and 7 Day Theory before Ready To Die.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Great punchlines/bars > story telling/swag, its the same old story over and over about the same struggle......yawn......I like to here a crazy punchline which makes me think o wow that actually had great thought go into it and required thinking.

Not really a big fan of ethier tbh, both I guess they were the biggest names in hip hop and without them there would not be a lot of the rappers I use to listen to when rap was good, but I always prefered guys like Chino XL who could story tell but had insane lyrics/disses to back it up as well.

Disagree. And please, Pac had way more range on the mic. Biggie had him beat on lyrics and thats about it. Pac could rap about anything.

[GOBB]

Had to go listen to some Big...



Here's a criminal, ***** made America's
Most
Killed his baby mother brother, slit his
throat
The ***** got bagged with the toast
Weeded, took it to trial, beat it
Now he feel he undefeated, he mean it
Nothing to lose tattooed around his gun
wounds
everything to gain, embedded in his brain
And me I feel the same for this money and
diamonds
Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin


Big was too raw...

Running aint in my protocol :roll:

[Loneshot]

Yeah if you really feel Pac didn't come as raw or lacked the depth of Big, then you haven't listened to much Pac outside of the commercial hits. I love Big, but i don't think he had the depth that Pac does. So many Pac tracks make me reflect on my state of existence. Its street gospel and few people on this planet can say they can't relate to many of Pac's tracks. His verses are timeless.

Last verse in "Me Against the World" gives me chills. It really feels like the dude is still here.


With all this extra stressin
The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest? Through this supression
They punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even a genius asks-es questions
Be grateful for blessings
Don't ever change, keep your essence
The power is in the people and politics we address
Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic
And when you get stranded
And things don't go the way you planned it
Dreamin of riches, in a position of makin a difference
Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen
If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change
It wasn't nuttin like the game
It's just me against the world

[MMM]

He wasn't. Pac changed rap. As mentioned, Biggie gets compared to Tupac because thats the best the East had to offer at the time of East/West war. And like I said, Biggie isn't even as good as Jay-Z. And as much as I like Jay, he isn't touching Pac.

that is the 2nd time you said this blasphemy
it would be one thing if Jay took Big lines, style and improved it but he deliveries it inferior to the original

Give me
BIG
Big Daddy Kane
and Kool G Rap
over Jay all day

[MMM]

Yeah if you really feel Pac didn't come as raw or lacked the depth of Big, then you haven't listened to much Pac outside of the commercial hits. I love Big, but i don't think he had the depth that Pac does. So many Pac tracks make me reflect on my state of existence. Its street gospel and few people on this planet can say they can't relate to many of Pac's tracks. His verses are timeless.

Last verse in "Me Against the World" gives me chills. It really feels like the dude is still here.

Pac was a better artist
but Big was a better rapper
his flow and his skils on the mic were better
however, what Pac said was more important and more relateable across different groups of people

[SilkkTheShocker]

that is the 2nd time you said this blasphemy
it would be one thing if Jay took Big lines, style and improved it but he deliveries it inferior to the original

Give me
BIG
Big Daddy Kane
and Kool G Rap
over Jay all day


I respect your opinion bro. But to me, Jay-Z has always been the 2nd best ever after 2Pac. Im biased though, because Vol. 1, Vol. 3, Black Album, and Reasonable Doubt are some of my favorite albums ever

[L.Kizzle]

Pac was a better artist
but Big was a better rapper
his flow and his skils on the mic were better
That's all that needs to be said.

IF you can't agree with that, kill yourself.

[pauk]

Pac was a better artist
but Big was a better rapper
his flow and his skils on the mic were better
however, what Pac said was more important and more relateable across different groups of people

Yea, that i can agree with.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I just don't think Biggie has the body of work to be linked with 2Pac. There will be another Biggie before there will ever be another Pac. I mean, they actually have college courses where they talk about the things 2Pac wrote about it.

[Norcaliblunt]

Esham from Detroit is better than both.

Both are overrated in the sense that tons of other rappers get overlooked, because of the constant debate between these two.

When comparing Pac and Big I go with Pac simply because I like his songs more. Big was slick though. But Pac actually attempting to stand for something and having social commentary at his level of stardom is impressive. Add the fact he has a cateloge of music that is huge for the amount of time he was alive, you have to go with Pac.

[Norcaliblunt]

They say the only way to be a real MC
Is to get'cha head blew off and be D-E-A-D

[L.Kizzle]

Esham from Detroit is better than both.
:biggums:

That's like sayin Joe The Detroyer Hammond was better than Julius Erving.

[MMM]

They say the only way to be a real MC
Is to get'cha head blew off and be D-E-A-D

"Dead rappers get better promotion"
Kiss

but he also said "top 5 dead or alive"
now i like a lot of Jada's stuff but i'm not sure if he is top 50 to be honest

[Norcaliblunt]

:biggums:

That's like sayin Joe The Detroyer Hammond was better than Julius Erving.

Why because he's not as commercially successful, and shoved down your throats as much as PAC, Big, Jay Z, or Nas?

Dude is original and creative as hell, produces his own beats (which alone puts him musically above those mentioned), and is a pioneer in the independent rap game.

He put out his first record when he was 13 for Christs sake.

It's comments like that, which make all these so called Goats become overrated.

[L.Kizzle]

Why because he's not as commercially successful, and shoved down your throats as much as PAC, Big, Jay Z, or Nas?

Dude is original and creative as hell, produces his own beats (which alone puts him musically above those mentioned), and is a pioneer in the independent rap game.

He put out his first record when he was 13 for Christs sake.

It's comments like that, which make all these so called Goats become overrated.
Yes.

They're GOATS for a reason. If no one know's outside the hardcore rap community, how can you be greater than BIG or Pac?

It goes back to Joe Hammond, Earl Manigult and other streetball legends. The word of mouth in the hood is strong, but who really knows them to say they're better than Jordan or Dr. J?

You can't do it.

[Knicks101]

Yes.

They're GOATS for a reason. If no one know's outside the hardcore rap community, how can you be greater than BIG or Pac?

It goes back to Joe Hammond, Earl Manigult and other streetball legends. The word of mouth in the hood is strong, but who really knows them to say they're better than Jordan or Dr. J?

You can't do it.

http://images.wikia.com/victorious/images/2/23/Ron-weasley-wtf.gif

[ace23]

Norcaliblunt stays on Esham's ****, though.

[Norcaliblunt]

Yes.

They're GOATS for a reason. If no one know's outside the hardcore rap community, how can you be greater than BIG or Pac?

It goes back to Joe Hammond, Earl Manigult and other streetball legends. The word of mouth in the hood is strong, but who really knows them to say they're better than Jordan or Dr. J?

You can't do it.

I see what you are saying man, but this is music where it's all subjective. If it's all about selling records, and how many people know you across the world then PAC wins hands down end of discussion.

I would find it refreshing if people would actually mention lesser known cats when comparing the best to ever do it. I guess that's another thread. Lol.

[Budadiiii]

Yes.

They're GOATS for a reason. If no one know's outside the hardcore rap community, how can you be greater than BIG or Pac?

It goes back to Joe Hammond, Earl Manigult and other streetball legends. The word of mouth in the hood is strong, but who really knows them to say they're better than Jordan or Dr. J?

You can't do it.
Rap isn't basketball and that comparison isn't stable at all.

[L.Kizzle]

I see what you are saying man, but this is music where it's all subjective. If it's all about selling records, and how many people know you across the world then PAC wins hands down end of discussion.

I would find it refreshing if people would actually mention lesser known cats when comparing the best to ever do it. I guess that's another thread. Lol.
How can you be the greatest if no one knows who you are?

[Norcaliblunt]

How can you be the greatest if no one knows who you are?

Any true hip hop head, or rap fan worthy of an opinion when it comes to talking about the best ever should know. If you don't do your homework.

That Searching For Sugar Man movie about Sixto Rodriguez is a good example. Real producers had him in their top 5, above fools like Bob Dylan and the Stones.

[ace23]

I see what you are saying man, but this is music where it's all subjective. If it's all about selling records, and how many people know you across the world then PAC wins hands down end of discussion.

I would find it refreshing if people would actually mention lesser known cats when comparing the best to ever do it. I guess that's another thread. Lol.
That's the thing about arguing who is the best of all time: there's always someone that you have not heard of out there who is better than your favorite rapper.

[nathanjizzle]

biggie was the better mc/rapper

tupac was the better icon/ music maker.

[L.Kizzle]

Any true hip hop head, or rap fan worthy of an opinion when it comes to talking about the best ever should know. If you don't do your homework.

That Searching For Sugar Man movie about Sixto Rodriguez is a good example. Real producers had him in their top 5, above fools like Bob Dylan and the Stones.
Greatness has to be seen and/or heard.

I can be the greatest guitar player ever, but if know one has seen me or heard me play, it can't be argued.

Most people don't know who Esham is, it's just the way the cookie crumbled. Even when you bought him into the discussion, you had to put where he's from. Because, even you know most people don't know who the hell you're talking about. That's a fact, not opinion.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

"Dead rappers get better promotion"
Kiss

but he also said "top 5 dead or alive"
now i like a lot of Jada's stuff but i'm not sure if he is top 50 to be honest
Jadakiss shoulda been top 10, what the fck happened?

edit: Actually now that I think back on it, Styles was the better rapper from Lox. Jada just never delivered.

[L.Kizzle]

Jadakiss shoulda been top 10, what the fck happened?

edit: Actually now that I think back on it, Styles was the better rapper from Lox. Jada just never delivered.
Lol, Jada is top 50.

Jada > P >>>>>>> Sheek

[miller-time]

Biggie was WAY more talented...not even close either

"Sippin Hennessy, In the penitentiary, FEEEEEL MEEE!...Ridddah!!"

^^^ that pretty much sums up Pacs lyrics

That isn't exactly a fair summation of 2pacs ability or music. It'd be like saying

"Yes, I make r&b, I sing song it go ring-a-chong, a-ching-chong-chong-chong-ching. Psych, I joke, I joke, I kidd, I kidd"

pretty much sums up Eminem.

[Jackass18]

I really can't list ten great Biggie tracks. While with Pac, limiting myself to ten would be hard.

What? That's easy

Notorious Thugs
Hypnotize
Kick in the Door
Gimme the Loot
The What
Juicy
Me & My Bitch
Big Poppa
One More Chance (either one)
Mo Money Mo Problems (if just for Biggie's verse alone)

Plus many others

I really like both, but always preferred Biggie. Dat flow

[Jackass18]

That's the thing about arguing who is the best of all time: there's always someone that you have not heard of out there who is better than your favorite rapper.

It boils down to subjectivity. If you don't feel someone, then you're not going to rate them all that highly. For me, I never felt Jay-Z so I don't rank him highly. I've heard the arguments and they basically mean little to me. It comes down to you liking something I don't. You may think some lyrics are great while I feel they're not all that good.

[Norcaliblunt]

Greatness has to be seen and/or heard.

I can be the greatest guitar player ever, but if know one has seen me or heard me play, it can't be argued.

Most people don't know who Esham is, it's just the way the cookie crumbled. Even when you bought him into the discussion, you had to put where he's from. Because, even you know most people don't know who the hell you're talking about. That's a fact, not opinion.

Totally understand where you are coming from, as it's the mainstream conventional way of thinking. But....

1. There is a big difference between absolutely no one knowing who you are vs. somebody who has put out 20 plus records which sold thousands independently, an artist who has worked and collaborated with legendary artists such as Kool Keith, a person who Eminem has mentioned by name in song comparing himself too, and every other rap artist from Detroit or the state of Michigan has usually stated in interview as the most influential rapper to come out of that state or city.

2. In this thread I never said Esham was the GOAT (even though I probably would in one of those threads Lol), I just said he is better than Pac and Biggie. Yeah I was trying to edgy with that comment, but this idea that automatically Pac and Big are on some higher pedestal in regards to the actual music that was made just because more people know who they are is the mentality that is wrong with music and fans in general.

3. Watch that "Searching for Sugar Man" movie I mentioned and it tackles this topic extraordinarily.

Much respect, and I'm done now, as I don't want to totally derail the thread.

[L.Kizzle]

Totally understand where you are coming from, as it's the mainstream conventional way of thinking. But....

1. There is a big difference between absolutely no one knowing who you are vs. somebody who has put out 20 plus records which sold thousands independently, an artist who has worked and collaborated with legendary artists such as Kool Keith, a person who Eminem has mentioned by name in song comparing himself too, and every other rap artist from Detroit or the state of Michigan has usually stated in interview as the most influential rapper to come out of that state or city.

2. In this thread I never said Esham was the GOAT (even though I probably would in one of those threads Lol), I just said he is better than Pac and Biggie. Yeah I was trying to edgy with that comment, but this idea that automatically Pac and Big are on some higher pedestal in regards to the actual music that was made just because more people know who they are is the mentality that is wrong with music and fans in general.

3. Watch that "Searching for Sugar Man" movie I mentioned and it tackles this topic extraordinarily.

Much respect, and I'm done now, as I don't want to totally derail the thread.
Trust, I totally get where you are coming from.

Here is an artist (not Hip-Hop related) Shuggie Otis.

[Remix]

Had to go listen to some Big...



Here's a criminal, ***** made America's
Most
Killed his baby mother brother, slit his
throat
The ***** got bagged with the toast
Weeded, took it to trial, beat it
Now he feel he undefeated, he mean it
Nothing to lose tattooed around his gun
wounds
everything to gain, embedded in his brain
And me I feel the same for this money and
diamonds
Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin


Big was too raw...
:bowdown:

i saw this thread and had to bump some biggie...N*ggas bleed is always my favorite to listen to...

[MMM]

Jadakiss shoulda been top 10, what the fck happened?

edit: Actually now that I think back on it, Styles was the better rapper from Lox. Jada just never delivered.

SP is that dude
Gangster and a Gentlemen over kiss the game goodbye
and Phantom menace/empire over jada's mix tapes

[MMM]

Trust, I totally get where you are coming from.

Here is an artist (not Hip-Hop related) Shuggie Otis.

I dunno much about him but i just heard him come on this classic soul station i'm listening too.

[andremiller07]

Gangstarr (Guru/ DJ Premo) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2pac/Biggie

[Bigsmoke]

Gangstarr (Guru/ DJ Premo) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2pac/Biggie

random and false post.

Guru is the greatest rapper to ever come out of Boston but better than Pac?

[andremiller07]

random and false post.

Guru is the greatest rapper to ever come out of Boston but better than Pac?

Why not? Based on skills/punchlines and he could story tell also I don't see what makes Pac better than him other than being more popular/sales.

[joe]

Listening to Biggie is painful, seems like a terrible person with no self awareness, just going through life thinking he's the shit, and then being validated by millions of people buying his records. The worst is when he tries to get deep, like in that suicide phone call song, because you can tell he's so out of his element. I can't fathom someone as full of himself as Biggie ever being suicidal.

Or that song he did with 112, "Sky is the Limit." You have an uplifting chorus, then Biggie talking non-sense the entire time about robbing people and how he's a boss. The chorus could have been the "Dead Wrong" chorus and the lyrics would still fit.

Biggie didn't make music.. he rapped. Tupac made music! Depth, feeling, realness, contradictions.

I recognize that a lot of people just like to hear punchlines and flow, and I definitely can be in that mood at times. But to me very little "rap" qualifies as music, and Biggie is probably the greatest example of why. And Tupac is the rare example of rap actually being music. So to me it's no comparison.

[ace23]

It boils down to subjectivity. If you don't feel someone, then you're not going to rate them all that highly. For me, I never felt Jay-Z so I don't rank him highly. I've heard the arguments and they basically mean little to me. It comes down to you liking something I don't. You may think some lyrics are great while I feel they're not all that good.
I agree, but this has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.

There are too many extremely talented, relatively unknown underground rappers for someone to be able to deem an emcee "GOAT".

Jay-Z is average imo btw.

[joe]

I like someone like Young Buck, who talks pretty much all the same shit as Biggie. But then he'll be like, "You know I really didn't want to live this life, I just felt I was forced into it by circumstances." Just that makes me like Young Buck even though the rest of his content is so similar to Biggie. You never got that with Biggie, he seemed really caught up in appearance and wanting himself/others to view him as awesome.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

the illuminati hyped biggie. pac moved nigguhs. he could have started a movement that would have been greater then the civil rights.

[Rameek]

He wasn't. Pac changed rap. As mentioned, Biggie gets compared to Tupac because thats the best the East had to offer at the time of East/West war. And like I said, Biggie isn't even as good as Jay-Z. And as much as I like Jay, he isn't touching Pac.
This is the most brain dead statement ever.

There were very few lyricist getting real airplay around that time. During this transitional phase of hip hop the young people were purchasing glam rap and nonsensical artist. That dominated the airwaves.

Pac changed what? Remember he didnt become a real tuff guy until he got on death row records. Lets not hype this guy beyond that what he is. Give credit he had an extensive cataloge capitalizing on his publicity. He has some great songs and he was quite poetic and some club bangers. He was awesome life artist. He really bought into his character he was never as rugged as perceived initially.

Biggie and Pdiddy changed hip hop (negatively IMHO) with remixes and glamour. The glamorous life with versace, dolce, coogi, S500, diamonds etc...... Beyond that Bigs had the wise words just a great word artist, words from page was vivid to the mind, just lyrically nice. His character changed as well he became quite full of himself as well.

It's really based on preference though. It used to be solely based on region and lifestyle to who was better. Neither is better its just preference. What do you value more in an artist.

I cant believe JOE said Biggie was more self absorbed than Pac thats hilarity.

Technically neither are GOAT but its ok.

Guru is quite underrated was a cool a$$ dude.

[nathanjizzle]

biggie is still the best rapper that ever lived. not sure where you guys have been. he might not been as popular as 2pac but he definitely was the better "rapper" literally .

[SilkkTheShocker]

Tupac shouldn't be compared to anyone. No rapper has ever had the same kind of presence behind the mic as Pac. There is nothing at all unique about Biggie. Nothing. Pac moved people with his music. Biggie didn't rap about anything unique. Just a typical east coast rapper talking about nothing.

[No_Look604]

Both Legends but definitely Pac > Biggie.

Pac's career was huuuge well before BIG even dropped Read to Die.


I hate people who say they love Pac but don't know jack sh*t about his Digital Underground and bay area days...

Shoot some fakkits don't even know about Me Against The World and in this day and age with the internet, there is no excuse.


BIG is the better MC but 2pac is on a whole different level.

To not have love for both means you're not a true hip hop fan.

[nathanjizzle]

Tupac shouldn't be compared to anyone. No rapper has ever had the same kind of presence behind the mic as Pac. There is nothing at all unique about Biggie. Nothing. Pac moved people with his music. Biggie didn't rap about anything unique. Just a typical east coast rapper talking about nothing.

biggie had no presence behind the mic?:roll: are you stupid? let me put this in words you might understand, biggie was the rapper of MCing like lebron is the player of basketball.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Nothing more cringe worthy than a bunch of 16-22 white boys arguing over Tupac & Biggie and acting like they are fully aware of each rappers impact and career.

Stop just stop

[Rameek]

Nothing more cringe worthy than a bunch of 16-22 white boys arguing over Tupac & Biggie and acting like they are fully aware of each rappers impact and career.

Stop just stop
I was thinking of the age factor. Most people were probably in elementary school if that when these guys were getting down.

[Sarcastic]

Who Shot Ya >>> Hit Em Up

[L.Kizzle]

Nothing more cringe worthy than a bunch of 16-22 white boys arguing over Tupac & Biggie and acting like they are fully aware of each rappers impact and career.

Stop just stop
Who are you, a 26 year old white boy?

:biggums:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Who are you, a 26 year old white boy?

:biggums:
This :oldlol:

[-p.tiddy-]

I'm 35...

I can remember watching Dr. Dre and Ed Lover...Yo MTV Raps (what's the haps on the craps?)

I can remember NWA coming out...and buying Easy-E's tape...that was elementary school for me

I remember Sir Mix A lot BEFORE Baby Got Back..."My Posse's on Broadway"

I can remember buying Run DMC's tape and hearing "it's tricky to rock a ryhme to rock a ryhme that's right on time its...." before most any other of my friends did

I remember Kane, Rakim, Kid n Play, Heavy D, Special Ed "I got Made", etc etc


Pac and Biggie are well in my range...that's high school and after for me

I remember East Coast Pac...Brenda's got a Baby Pac...Holla if you Hear Me Pac

I can remember seeing Juice at the theater...(and then making fun of it by telling all my friends "you got the juice now")

I remember the impact they both had like it was yesterday

I am a white boy though :lol

[G-Funk]

2pac is better, he cant be duplicated. As great as Biggie was u can pick out 10 Mc's who are just as good if not better.

[Kblaze8855]

2pac is better, he cant be duplicated. As great as Biggie was u can pick out 10 Mc's who are just as good if not better.

Pac is not a top 10 rapper as far as rapping. Not outside Me Against the World and 9-10 of his early songs. Pac had one of theb est voices...the best energy...he made you feel it. But hes not some top flight rapper. Hes not gonna have the best verse on any song featuring Big Pun.

[Norcaliblunt]

Pac changed what? Remember he didnt become a real tuff guy until he got on death row records. Lets not hype this guy beyond that what he is. Give credit he had an extensive cataloge capitalizing on his publicity. He has some great songs and he was quite poetic and some club bangers. He was awesome life artist. He really bought into his character he was never as rugged as perceived initially.




PAC shot cops, and got away with it. He did it for a nobel reaon too. That's as rugged gangsta as it gets, when being a pop star.

[-p.tiddy-]

Pac started as a stage dancer...for Digital Underground

he went to a Arts school with Jada Pinkett

Pac and Jada singing "Parents just don't Understand" by Will Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzWwJMwWQk)


I'm not saying Pac was a softy, he wasn't...but he wasn't nearly as hood as he made himself out to be with Death Row...he created a lot of that image himself

[-p.tiddy-]

this is how skilled Big was...

He WAS Lil Kim...Biggie Smalls - Queen Bitch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L2-5FJ5e1s)

He wrote all of her shit during the time that she was actually seen as an decent artist, and he even rapped it for her to show her how to preform it.

after he died what happened to Lil Kim?...lol...awful music and plastic surgery happened



also...

Are all of you aware that Biggie was BOTH of the voices in "Gimmie the Loot"? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grsSyI62mjA)

some people still don't know that even to this day

when he preformed that song someone else had to step in...like Puff

[Rasheed1]

Friend of mine went to creative performing arts school with Pac and Jada (and I think dru-hill also) in Baltimore..

He said jada was coolest broad around..


Pac was trained to be an entertainer. Biggie was trained to be a God MC

Biggie would eat pac's lunch if they went head up in a battle, but Pac had more skill at creating records and scenarios that were great on wax. Puffy took alot of ideas from pac that went into biggie's first album

I personally liked pac more as an actor than a rapper.. the thuglife stuff always felt manufactured and mindless to me..

[G-Funk]

Pac is not a top 10 rapper as far as rapping. Not outside Me Against the World and 9-10 of his early songs. Pac had one of theb est voices...the best energy...he made you feel it. But hes not some top flight rapper. Hes not gonna have the best verse on any song featuring Big Pun.

I dont disagree, But out of all the great rappers, I have yet to see a rapper make 5-9 platinum albums in 3days - 2 weeks like 2pac has.

[G-Funk]

Pac started as a stage dancer...for Digital Underground

he went to a Arts school with Jada Pinkett

Pac and Jada singing "Parents just don't Understand" by Will Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzWwJMwWQk)


I'm not saying Pac was a softy, he wasn't...but he wasn't nearly as hood as he made himself out to be with Death Row...he created a lot of that image himself


2pac was homeless for a good part in his life, Biggie lived in very nice neighborhood, to me, Big was just a kid trying to live a ghetto hood life, 2pac was a ghetto kid trying to get out of da ghetto life.

[G-Funk]

Had to go listen to some Big...



Here's a criminal, ***** made America's
Most
Killed his baby mother brother, slit his
throat
The ***** got bagged with the toast
Weeded, took it to trial, beat it
Now he feel he undefeated, he mean it
Nothing to lose tattooed around his gun
wounds
everything to gain, embedded in his brain
And me I feel the same for this money and
diamonds
Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin


Big was too raw...


:applause: That's fire to da ear...This is fire to the soul:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z2nfa1X9Kc

Can't close my eyes cause all I see is terror
I hate the man in the mirror
Cause his reflection makes the pain turn realer
Times of Armageddeon, murder in mass amounts
In this society where only gettin the cash counts
I started out as a beginner
Entered the criminal lifestyle became a sinner
I make my money and vacate, evade prison
Went from the chosen one to outcast, unforgiven
And all the Hennessy and weed can't hide, the pain I feel inside
You know, it's like I'm livin just to die
I fall on my knees and beg for mercy, not knowin if I'm worthy
Livin life thinkin no man can hurt me
So I'm askin -- before I lay me down to sleep
Before you judge me, look at all the shit you did to me, my misery
I rose up from the slums, made it out the flames
In my search for fame will I change?

[MMM]

also...

Are all of you aware that Biggie was BOTH of the voices in "Gimmie the Loot"? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grsSyI62mjA)

some people still don't know that even to this day

when he preformed that song someone else had to step in...like Puff

I was like :wtf:
when my cuz didn't know that about gimme the loot

He also had Puff do his lines on Warning
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbSm6HsX_ek

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

PAC shot cops, and got away with it. He did it for a nobel reaon too. That's as rugged gangsta as it gets, when being a pop star.
this

[No_Look604]

The rose that grew from concrete >>>>

[niko]

OP is 14 years old, true or not he has no perspective at all.

[G-Funk]

Yeah if you really feel Pac didn't come as raw or lacked the depth of Big, then you haven't listened to much Pac outside of the commercial hits. I love Big, but i don't think he had the depth that Pac does. So many Pac tracks make me reflect on my state of existence. Its street gospel and few people on this planet can say they can't relate to many of Pac's tracks. His verses are timeless.

Last verse in "Me Against the World" gives me chills. It really feels like the dude is still here.



With all this extra stressin
The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest? Through this supression
They punish the people that's askin questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even a genius asks-es questions
Be grateful for blessings
Don't ever change, keep your essence
The power is in the people and politics we address
Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic
And when you get stranded
And things don't go the way you planned it
Dreamin of riches, in a position of makin a difference
Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen
If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change
It wasn't nuttin like the game
It's just me against the world

woooo, fire!

[Rasheed1]

Who Shot Ya >>> Hit Em Up

:cheers:

[TheReal Kendall]

I got Pac. He talked about more stuff than big.

big was rapping about mostly gangsta stuff

[Dictator]

Clowns :facepalm

Tupac and Biggie will forever be equals.

1a Tupac
1b Biggie
1c Nas

If Nas had the exposure of those two he would literally be leaps and bounds beyond any other rapper ever.

[G-Funk]

Clowns :facepalm

Tupac and Biggie will forever be equals.

1a Tupac
1b Biggie
1c Nas

If Nas had the exposure of those two he would literally be leaps and bounds beyond any other rapper ever.


Nas in a sense is a product of both of them, specially 2pac.

[Pointguard]

2pac was homeless for a good part in his life, Biggie lived in very nice neighborhood, to me, Big was just a kid trying to live a ghetto hood life, 2pac was a ghetto kid trying to get out of da ghetto life.
2pac was a nice kid at 16. A gifted library kid that socially was into his own stuff and really believed in social justice. Seemed like he would never go into street gangs. Even when he cracked the business he was a dancer with Digital Underground as p-tiddy said. A moment of vulnerability and he fell into a world different than the one he grew up in. It was a choice, not something he was locked into.

Biggie grew up in a world he couldn't escape. I don't recall gangs in that neighborhood, there were in other parts of Brooklyn (Coney Island and Sex boys up in E NY), but NY was never big on that anyway. But his neighborhood was as hard as any to make a name for yourself. Drugs were crazy and killing was rampant.

[Fresh Kid]

Pac was way better, biggie just had flows but talked about nothing.

[Fresh Kid]

Biggie discovered thy 11th commandment...
yea crack commandments:facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

B-Legit >> Pac and Big

[tpols]

yea crack commandments:facepalm
What other commandments are there?

:rolleyes:

[L.Kizzle]

What other commandments are there?

:rolleyes:
biblical.

[tpols]

biblical.
Biggies >

[The-Legend-24]

Clowns :facepalm

Tupac and Biggie will forever be equals.

1a Tupac
1b Biggie
1c Nas

If Nas had the exposure of those two he would literally be leaps and bounds beyond any other rapper ever.

:oldlol:

Both these nikkas are overrated as fvck, but I fvcks with Pac more.

[East_Stone_Ya]

They aren't really linked due to body of work, they are linked because

A- They instigated the whole East vs West
B- They both were murdered

it was actually the media who instigated the East vs West, when it was all really about Death Row vs Bad Boy



and yes Pac was better than Biggie

[Fresh Kid]

biblical.
Thank u.

[G-Funk]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]2pac was a nice kid at 16. A gifted library kid that socially was into his own stuff and really believed in social justice. Seemed like he would never go into street gangs. Even when he cracked the business he was a dancer with Digital Underground as p-tiddy said. A moment of vulnerability and he fell into a world different than the one he grew up in. It was a choice, not something he was locked into.

Biggie grew up in a world he couldn't escape. I don't recall gangs in that neighborhood, there were in other parts of Brooklyn (Coney Island and Sex boys up in E NY), but NY was never big on that anyway. But his neighborhood was as hard as any to make a name for yourself. Drugs were crazy and killing was rampant.[/Q

[G-Funk]

2pac was a nice kid at 16. A gifted library kid that socially was into his own stuff and really believed in social justice. Seemed like he would never go into street gangs. Even when he cracked the business he was a dancer with Digital Underground as p-tiddy said. A moment of vulnerability and he fell into a world different than the one he grew up in. It was a choice, not something he was locked into.

Biggie grew up in a world he couldn't escape. I don't recall gangs in that neighborhood, there were in other parts of Brooklyn (Coney Island and Sex boys up in E NY), but NY was never big on that anyway. But his neighborhood was as hard as any to make a name for yourself. Drugs were crazy and killing was rampant. haha, do ur research boy, 2pac was poor as **** growing up, he had to live in Homeless shelters, and when he moved to Oakland he had to live and borrow clothes from his homeboy Ray-luv, that's the time his mom was a crack addict, that's when he showed digital his verse and they offered him a job as a dancer, so he took that job.



Biggie on the other hand was a son of a school teacher and lived on nice block, hes ass used to walk to the hood just around the corner according to some documentary he had all the video games, bike and anything he wanted according to his mom and friends, he's the one that was attracted to the ghetto life ad got into selling drugs when he had no need to do so, he was A student but dropped out in high school

[Bigsmoke]

Clowns :facepalm

Tupac and Biggie will forever be equals.

1a Tupac
1b Biggie
1c Nas

If Nas had the exposure of those two he would literally be leaps and bounds beyond any other rapper ever.

Jayz over biggie tho

More albums

[SilkkTheShocker]

2Pac was just all around better than Biggie. His body of work takes a steamy shit on Biggie's body of work. As said above already, Biggie isn't even as good as Jay-Z.

[Fresh Kid]

Jayz over biggie tho

More albums
Jay z sucks:oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Jay z sucks:oldlol:

Now he does. He is doing his best MJ on the Wizards impression right now. Or Shaq on the Cavs/Celtics.