Bill Russell described George Mikan weighing 280lbs when they first met (~1953-54):

[CavaliersFTW]

He talks about it in one of the parts (9 total) of his interview with Tim Duncan. I think it's in this part:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt2.html

...280lbs is MASSIVE even by today's standards, which greatly helps explain his dominance. 6-10 (which is extremely likely to be ~his w/o shoes height) would be roughly Patrick Ewing, Joakim Noah, Hakeem Olajuwon's height etc which is about typical of a good big man. As a "skinny" rookie his list weight was 245lbs (5lbs heavier than Dwight Howard as a rookie). And w/o bulking his arms up he eventually filled out to 280lbs which is LSU Shaq / Philadelphia Wilt territory, and still about 10lbs heavier than Dwight. - "farm strong". Imagine if he took HGH and spent hours a day at the gym, he would potentially be like 300+ if he played in the modern era :eek:

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/25/ce37de99-9915-40fc-9526-b34c093b6e8e_lg.jpeg

[SilkkTheShocker]

George Mikan in today's era: insurance salesman

[WillC]

George Mikan in today's era: insurance salesman

I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

[9erempiree]

He talks about it in one of the parts (9 total) of his interview with Tim Duncan. I think it's in this part:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt2.html

...280lbs is MASSIVE even by today's standards, which greatly helps explain his dominance. 6-10 (which is extremely likely to be ~his w/o shoes height) would be roughly Patrick Ewing, Joakim Noah, Hakeem Olajuwon's height etc which is about typical of a good big man. As a "skinny" rookie his list weight was 245lbs (5lbs heavier than Dwight Howard as a rookie). And w/o bulking his arms up he eventually filled out to 280lbs which is LSU Shaq / Philadelphia Wilt territory, and still about 10lbs heavier than Dwight. - "farm strong". Imagine if he took HGH and spent hours a day at the gym, he would potentially be like 300+ if he played in the modern era :eek:

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/25/ce37de99-9915-40fc-9526-b34c093b6e8e_lg.jpeg

You know a lot about basketball but weight training you don't. There is no way he bulks up to 300.

As good as Mikan was, he looked pretty slow footed. Unless there are video to prove me wrong.

http://www.nba.com/media/history/lakers_mikan_240.jpg

http://grassrootswritersguild.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mikanlow1.jpg?w=500

[SilkkTheShocker]

I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

Bird played against guys like Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Irving, etc. Mikan played against the guy that makes your coffee at Starbucks.

[9erempiree]

I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

It's pretty much been said about Larry Bird. I don't think he would dominate in this era.

You can't say that about Dirk because Dirk has been playing in modern basketball for his entire life.

Bird was playing in an era when basketball didn't care about defense. I don't think they practiced complex defensive scheme back in the days.

[9erempiree]

Bird played against guys like Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Irving, etc.

Too bad he didn't play against those guys on a daily basis.

A majority of the league back then were weak. You just happened to name-drop all the Hall of Famers.

He was usually up against some bums. Irving beat his ass before.

[CavaliersFTW]

^--- They already do...


I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

And there's a guy on Youtube I encountered recently who's soley dedicated to telling everyone Jordan played in a weak era now, saying he only got guarded by 6-3 white guys and wouldnt be as dominant today - his entire channel talks about it :facepalm

remember, we live in a world where groups of people believe aliens built the pyramids and wiped out dinosaurs so that they could implant humans on the planet :wtf: so basically nothing surprises me anymore :lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

Too bad he didn't play against those guys on a daily basis.

A majority of the league back then were weak. You just happened to name-drop all the Hall of Famers.

He was usually up against some bums. Irving beat his ass before.


The league was fine in the 80s. The west might have been weak at the times, but thats it. The 90s on the other hand was full of watered down trash.

[9erempiree]

They already do...

There's a guy on Youtube I encountered recently who's soley dedicated to telling everyone Jordan played in a weak era now, saying he only got guarded by 6-3 white guys and wouldnt be as dominant today - his entire channel talks about it :facepalm

remember, we live in a world where groups of people believe aliens built the pyramids and wiped out dinosaurs so that they could implant humans on the planet :wtf: so basically nothing surprises me anymore :lol

As great as MJ was, it's true, he did play against shorter guys. I posted a list of the top 10 SG's in the 90's and it wasn't pretty.

[Colbertnation64]

Clyde Lovellette who served as a backup for Mikan in the early stages of his career and was also white, insurance man looking routinely poured in 25-30 points on 50% shooting on Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.html?PlayerID=77414&Season=1959-60&sortField=Game_ID_SORT&sortOrder=DES

I know some people can't believe it but...elite players are elite players no matter what. Mikan was a great player, too many people want to take that away from him.

http://www.hoopszone.net/Kentucky/Kansas/Players/L/lovellette-clyde_files/image002.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

You know a lot about basketball but weight training you don't. There is no way he bulks up to 300.

As good as Mikan was, he looked pretty slow footed. Unless there are video to prove me wrong.

http://www.nba.com/media/history/lakers_mikan_240.jpg

http://grassrootswritersguild.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mikanlow1.jpg?w=500
wtf does posting a picture of his face have to do with how much weight he could gain lifting weights?

[Legends66NBA7]

And there's a guy on Youtube I encountered recently who's soley dedicated to telling everyone Jordan played in a weak era now, saying he only got guarded by 6-3 white guys and wouldnt be as dominant today - his entire channel talks about it :facepalm

Is it Bumperboysports ?

:oldlol:

[WillC]

It's pretty much been said about Larry Bird. I don't think he would dominate in this era.

You can't say that about Dirk because Dirk has been playing in modern basketball for his entire life.

Bird was playing in an era when basketball didn't care about defense. I don't think they practiced complex defensive scheme back in the days.

So Dirk is able to dominate today but Bird wouldn't? :facepalm

Despite the fact that their athleticism is similar?

Despite the fact that Bird's basketball IQ is arguably the greatest ever?

Despite the fact that Bird was one of the best players during an era that featured Jordan, Magic, Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Olajuwom, etc?

Damn, some people know nothing about basketball! :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Clyde Lovellette who served as a backup for Mikan in the early stages of his career and was also white, insurance man looking routinely poured in 25-30 points on 50% shooting on Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.html?PlayerID=77414&Season=1959-60&sortField=Game_ID_SORT&sortOrder=DES

I know some people can't believe it but...elite players are elite players no matter what. Mikan was a great player, too many people want to take that away from him.

He was a great player for his era. In this era there is a better chance of him doing your taxes than playing professional basketball.

[CavaliersFTW]

Is it Bumperboysports ?

:oldlol:
YES!!!!! what's with that guy!? He always types in all caps at people too, is he just trolling?

[Djahjaga]

He talks about it in one of the parts (9 total) of his interview with Tim Duncan. I think it's in this part:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt2.html

...280lbs is MASSIVE even by today's standards, which greatly helps explain his dominance. 6-10 (which is extremely likely to be ~his w/o shoes height) would be roughly Patrick Ewing, Joakim Noah, Hakeem Olajuwon's height etc which is about typical of a good big man. As a "skinny" rookie his list weight was 245lbs (5lbs heavier than Dwight Howard as a rookie). And w/o bulking his arms up he eventually filled out to 280lbs which is LSU Shaq / Philadelphia Wilt territory, and still about 10lbs heavier than Dwight. - "farm strong". Imagine if he took HGH and spent hours a day at the gym, he would potentially be like 300+ if he played in the modern era :eek:

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/25/ce37de99-9915-40fc-9526-b34c093b6e8e_lg.jpeg

I'm almost certain you're going to respond to this with a sneer, but 280 lbs doesn't mean 280 lbs of pure muscle, the way Olajuwon, Ewing, and Noah are. You can't tell me from that pic that you think he has the same build as them. He's also barely getting any lift, although I have noted the change in dunking styles (i.e. current players would get called for hanging on the basket if they dunked in the 60s).

[9erempiree]

Clyde Lovellette who served as a backup for Mikan in the early stages of his career and was also white, insurance man looking routinely poured in 25-30 points on 50% shooting on Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.html?PlayerID=77414&Season=1959-60&sortField=Game_ID_SORT&sortOrder=DES

I know some people can't believe it but...elite players are elite players no matter what. Mikan was a great player, too many people want to take that away from him.

http://www.hoopszone.net/Kentucky/Kansas/Players/L/lovellette-clyde_files/image002.jpg

This was during the 50's and 60's when basketball was an infant. The rules were not set in stone like they are now. Those guys that drop 30 points on Russell and Wilt says a lot of how the game was played. These two are looked upon as the greatest and you have white guys dropping 30 points on them?

Like I said, they were probably camping in the lane and jacking up shots. These white guys you speak about would not last in today's league without camping in the middle. They would get a violation and they don't look very strong to get position inside.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

YES!!!!! what's with that guy!? He always types in all caps at people too, is he just trolling?
That guy is a moron. He thinks ppg is an indicator of how good someone is defensively.

[Legends66NBA7]

YES!!!!! what's with that guy!?

Word is, his old account used to be "Mikenotnumber1", he and a couple of other people would comment on his channel (I guess it was a cult against Jordan and all his fans; looks like there still is one) and would talk about all this random things on how Jordan faced weak competition, how Hakeem would own Jordan if they met, how Kobe was better than Jordan, etc... etc...

He actually does respect the old school players before Jordan though. He thinks Kareem, Wilt, Russell, etc... are all better and then some. He just insane if people think otherwise. Kinda loses all credibility after trying to argue like that. I know there at least one YouTuber who did break his trolling ways and make his respect his view point, although that doesn't stop him from his bat shit crazy ways.

There was a poster on ISH that I thought was bumperboy, "quick96", but it turns out he just follows bumperboy. It's sad if people actually believe all that nonsense. Hopefully he just grows up and realizes the reality of things.


He always types in all caps at people too, is he just trolling?

I don't think he does, but I think he just projects that. He could be trolling just to make the old school fans/ Kobe fans look worse... but I really doubt it. He believes in what he's saying.

[LONGTIME]

You know a lot about basketball but weight training you don't. There is no way he bulks up to 300.

As good as Mikan was, he looked pretty slow footed. Unless there are video to prove me wrong.

http://www.nba.com/media/history/lakers_mikan_240.jpg

http://grassrootswritersguild.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mikanlow1.jpg?w=500

If he was really 280 lbs, you don't think he could put on 20-25 lbs of muscle mass if he lifted?

[Colbertnation64]

He was a great player for his era. In this era there is a better chance of him doing your taxes than playing professional basketball.
I'm definitely not going to say "Mikan would be a 30/15 player today"

I guess my point is simply that no one should try to take away from on of the greats because of their era.

http://stats.nba.com/gameDetail.html?GameID=0025900293

Lovellette who is from the 50's and is certainly not as good as Mikan had 24 points on 52% shooting on a rookie Chamberlain. Chamberlain had 32 on 45%. Lovellette didn't all of a sudden become terrible because he player against a black man.

Again, I'm not making any outlandish "He'd drop 50 PPG" claim, simply that they deserve a great deal of respect.

[9erempiree]

50's and 60's basketball players were considered freakish and they are playing because of their height.

Modern basketball players are athletic freaks who got their height from years of playing.

Deandre Jordan would be an example of a guy that would murder a lot of the players in the past and this is no disrespect.

[Djahjaga]

That guy is a moron. He thinks ppg is an indicator of how good someone is defensively.

This. That guy's a complete idiot.

[Legends66NBA7]

That guy is a moron. He thinks ppg is an indicator of how good someone is defensively.


This. That guy's a complete idiot.

I haven't listened to that guy for a while, though.

YouTuber's are the absolute worst when it comes to sports talk. Just got to tune them all out.

[CavaliersFTW]

I'm almost certain you're going to respond to this with a sneer, but 280 lbs doesn't mean 280 lbs of pure muscle, the way Olajuwon, Ewing, and Noah are. You can't tell me from that pic that you think he has the same build as them. He's also barely getting any lift, although I have noted the change in dunking styles (i.e. current players would get called for hanging on the basket if they dunked in the 60s).
A 245-280lb weight range is huge, it is bigger than Olajuwon, Ewing, and Noah. Those guys are guys who I stated are roughly the same HEIGHT as Mikan, but they aren't comparable to his body mass. Noah for example was a 223lb rookie and is listed 232lbs... he's probably closer to 240+ now but still, that's a lot smaller than Mikan idc if he's got 6% body fat. Towards the end of Olajuwon and Ewings careers they probably were in the 260-270 range, but I still don't think they touched 280, and they weren't "all muscle" by that point either. That isn't the point. The point is, Mikan was a big ass dude. His natural frame is huge even by todays standards without juicing, PED's, hours at the gym etc.

[ProfessorMurder]

I'm almost certain you're going to respond to this with a sneer, but 280 lbs doesn't mean 280 lbs of pure muscle, the way Olajuwon, Ewing, and Noah are. You can't tell me from that pic that you think he has the same build as them. He's also barely getting any lift, although I have noted the change in dunking styles (i.e. current players would get called for hanging on the basket if they dunked in the 60s).

Ewing wasn't really ripped or anything, just huge.


Do I believe Mikan was 280? I'd probably guess 260, but it's not like I've seen that much photo/video.

[CavaliersFTW]

50's and 60's basketball players were considered freakish and they are playing because of their height.

Modern basketball players are athletic freaks who got their height from years of playing.

Deandre Jordan would be an example of a guy that would murder a lot of the players in the past and this is no disrespect.
:wtf: :facepalm care to explain? :lol

[2LeTTeRS]

50's and 60's basketball players were considered freakish and they are playing because of their height.

Modern basketball players are athletic freaks who got their height from years of playing.

What the hell does this supposed to mean? You are actually trying to argue that playing ball made these "athletes" taller? Wow.

[Colbertnation64]

:wtf: :facepalm care to explain? :lol
EVOLUTION MAN

[bagelred]

Bird played against guys like Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Irving, etc. Mikan played against the guy that makes your coffee at Starbucks.

The guy that made my coffee at Starbucks was Michael Ray Richardson. He was pretty damn good at basketball and making a White Chocolate Mocha.

[ThaRegul8r]

there's a guy on Youtube I encountered recently who's soley dedicated to telling everyone Jordan played in a weak era now, saying he only got guarded by 6-3 white guys and wouldnt be as dominant today - his entire channel talks about it :facepalm

I said this would happen before it started. If you look at how people operate on the internet, I don't see why it should be a surprise or come as a shock.

What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

[SilkkTheShocker]

The guy that made my coffee at Starbucks was Michael Ray Richardson. He was pretty damn good at basketball and making a White Chocolate Mocha.


my favorite :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Djahjaga]

A 245-280lb weight range is huge, it is bigger than Olajuwon, Ewing, and Noah. Those guys are guys who I stated are roughly the same HEIGHT as Mikan, but they aren't comparable to his body mass. Noah for example was a 223lb rookie and is listed 232lbs... he's probably closer to 240+ now but still, that's a lot smaller than Mikan idc if he's got 6% body fat. Towards the end of Olajuwon and Ewings careers they probably were in the 260-270 range, but I still don't think they touched 280, and they weren't "all muscle" by that point either. That isn't the point. The point is, Mikan was a big ass dude. His natural frame is huge even by todays standards without juicing, PED's, hours at the gym etc.

Eddy Curry was close to 300 lbs. Kevin Love was 280 when he entered the league and he said he had trouble staying in the game.

I'm not saying Mikan is some tiny chump by any standards (nor am I among those who say Bird would have trouble in today's league, btw), but saying he was 280 lbs doesn't mean he had the physical presence of Ewing or Olajuwon, let alone someone like Roy Hibbert who's actually 280.

Mikan made a brief comeback after his initial retirement and couldn't keep up with the game because of the newly adopted shot-clock. I'm pretty liberal in my comparisons of players throughout eras, but I generally stop at the adoption of the shot clock. In other words, I'm pretty confident most players from 1960 onward could compete well in today's league, but the game was so different pre 1954-55 that I think comparison is stupid.

And yes, I know the shot clock was primarily introduced to discourage stall tactics used against Mikan himself.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How much do Dwight and Bynum weigh?

[Whoah10115]

He talks about it in one of the parts (9 total) of his interview with Tim Duncan. I think it's in this part:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt2.html

...280lbs is MASSIVE even by today's standards, which greatly helps explain his dominance. 6-10 (which is extremely likely to be ~his w/o shoes height) would be roughly Patrick Ewing, Joakim Noah, Hakeem Olajuwon's height etc which is about typical of a good big man. As a "skinny" rookie his list weight was 245lbs (5lbs heavier than Dwight Howard as a rookie). And w/o bulking his arms up he eventually filled out to 280lbs which is LSU Shaq / Philadelphia Wilt territory, and still about 10lbs heavier than Dwight. - "farm strong". Imagine if he took HGH and spent hours a day at the gym, he would potentially be like 300+ if he played in the modern era :eek:

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/25/ce37de99-9915-40fc-9526-b34c093b6e8e_lg.jpeg


Mikan isn't going to just add muscle thru weight training. He has fat on his body that would be trimmed, which would lower his weight.


Added to that, he's not athletic. That has nothing to do with whether or not he's going to be a great player in this league, but adding weight could cause him to be even slower. The farm boy strength thing you said is spot on, but he has to have some level of athleticism. Working in the gym, the way you're suggesting, is kinda messing with that natural farm boy strength. That's gonna hinder him, so I don't see him buffing up the same way.


Hakeem was light and clearly not as big as Patrick. And that fact is exactly why people are being simple-minded and dumb when they call him a PF in a Center's body. Hakeem is slim. Ewing is a big guy. He clearly wasn't that interested in working out his arms like that and that would only add to his weight.


Noah is even lighter than Hakeem and is not a good comparison. Noah was a stick in college who added pure muscle and even took away from his agility and his athleticism...simply because he was too skinny to play center in the NBA...and probably not strong enough to play either power position. His is a lot of mass muscle over a skinny frame. Alonzo would be a more relevant comparison, tho he is an inch shorter.

[CavaliersFTW]

Eddy Curry was close to 300 lbs. Kevin Love was 280 when he entered the league and he said he had trouble staying in the game.

I'm not saying Mikan is some tiny chump by any standards (nor am I among those who say Bird would have trouble in today's league, btw), but saying he was 280 lbs doesn't mean he had the physical presence of Ewing or Olajuwon, let alone someone like Roy Hibbert who's actually 280.

Mikan made a brief comeback after his initial retirement and couldn't keep up with the game because of the newly adopted shot-clock. I'm pretty liberal in my comparisons of players throughout eras, but I generally stop at the adoption of the shot clock. In other words, I'm pretty confident most players from 1960 onward could compete well in today's league, but the game was so different pre 1954-55 that I think comparison is stupid.

And yes, I know the shot clock was primarily introduced to discourage stall tactics used against Mikan himself.
Draftexpress says 255, and go find pics of George Mikan ever looking that fat

[CavaliersFTW]

Mikan isn't going to just add muscle thru weight training. He has fat on his body that would be trimmed, which would lower his weight.


Added to that, he's not athletic. That has nothing to do with whether or not he's going to be a great player in this league, but adding weight could cause him to be even slower. The farm boy strength thing you said is spot on, but he has to have some level of athleticism. Working in the gym, the way you're suggesting, is kinda messing with that natural farm boy strength. That's gonna hinder him, so I don't see him buffing up the same way.


Hakeem was light and clearly not as big as Patrick. And that fact is exactly why people are being simple-minded and dumb when they call him a PF in a Center's body. Hakeem is slim. Ewing is a big guy. He clearly wasn't that interested in working out his arms like that and that would only add to his weight.


Noah is even lighter than Hakeem and is not a good comparison. Noah was a stick in college who added pure muscle and even took away from his agility and his athleticism...simply because he was too skinny to play center in the NBA...and probably not strong enough to play either power position. His is a lot of mass muscle over a skinny frame. Alonzo would be a more relevant comparison, tho he is an inch shorter.
Hey, I don't disagree that it might mess up his atheticism - I think adding bulk messes up a lot of players athleticism today. But for whatever reasons players seem to feel pressure to keep packing on muscle mass because that's what a lot of them do even if the result seems to be less mobility or agility. That's just how it seems to be this era - guys want to be immovable objects.

[Colbertnation64]

Eddy Curry was close to 300 lbs. Kevin Love was 280 when he entered the league and he said he had trouble staying in the game.

I'm not saying Mikan is some tiny chump by any standards (nor am I among those who say Bird would have trouble in today's league, btw), but saying he was 280 lbs doesn't mean he had the physical presence of Ewing or Olajuwon, let alone someone like Roy Hibbert who's actually 280.

Mikan made a brief comeback after his initial retirement and couldn't keep up with the game because of the newly adopted shot-clock. I'm pretty liberal in my comparisons of players throughout eras, but I generally stop at the adoption of the shot clock. In other words, I'm pretty confident most players from 1960 onward could compete well in today's league, but the game was so different pre 1954-55 that I think comparison is stupid.

And yes, I know the shot clock was primarily introduced to discourage stall tactics used against Mikan himself.

I don't like to compare players at all. For instance, Mikan was an amazing player and I leave it at that.

However, he had taken one year off. Then when he came back he averaged 10/8 in 20 min. 18/14.5/2.5 per 36 MIN.

His retirement had part to do with injuries, his body wasn't keeping up much anymore. I don't think the shotclock had as much to do with it as I hear.

edit: Not to mention he came in the middle of the season

[Djahjaga]

Draftexpress says 255, and go find pics of George Mikan ever looking that fat

I can't find the interview where he says it, but this article seems to have gotten the same info from him:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/135011583.html


As far as finding pics of Mikan, can I use the same response you do when people ask you for visual evidence of players?

Edit: Found it. Around the 2:08 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3Rux_I-R00


And why are we going with Love's listed weight but going with anecdotal evidence from Bill Russell on Mikan's weight from 50+ years ago? At least Love himself admits to his weight, and then only a few years after losing most of it. Every source online lists Mikan as 245.

[CavaliersFTW]

How much do Dwight and Bynum weigh?
Dwight 240lbs (rookie) - 270lbs (current)

Bynum is likely 290+ the last few seasons, I don't know what his rookie playing weight was

[Djahjaga]

I don't like to compare players at all. For instance, Mikan was an amazing player and I leave it at that.

However, he had taken one year off. Then when he came back he averaged 10/8 in 20 min. 18/14.5/2.5 per 36 MIN.

His retirement had part to do with injuries, his body wasn't keeping up much anymore. I don't think the shotclock had as much to do with it as I hear.

edit: Not to mention he came in the middle of the season

Yeah, the reasons for Mikan's decline are definitely debatable.

I guess where we differ is on the impact external factors (such as rules, but also league trends) have on players. You don't like to compare players (very admirable, btw) and I find it impossible not to simply because there are stark contrasts between eras. I think that's what makes the history of basketball so interesting. It's so hard to compare players across eras, but you never really stop wondering how Chamberlain would do against Shaq or how many titles Russell would win today.

Do you think that, regardless of the rules, some players will always be great? If so, how much can you change the rules and still have this be true?

I just think there's a very clear conceptual point at which rules (and other external factors) do affect the game. The question is how much? I think Chamberlain would destroy today's league, but I don't think he'd score much more than 30 PPG and rebound more than 15 (granted, a 30/15/3/3/2 year would be f*cking amazing. I'm depressed that I'll never be able to see that, now...). As for Mikan, I'm more skeptical.

[9erempiree]

Can we finally put an end to this "farmer's boy" strength. One of the biggest misconception in training history and basketball history. Nobody has any of this so-called strength and if they did, it doesn't translate to real world training.

What are these farm boys going to do, lift hay? Last time I checked hay is a constant weight. You can't load up and go heavier. What they going to do, stack and lift 3 at a time?

[Colbertnation64]

Yeah, the reasons for Mikan's decline are definitely debatable.


Do you think that, regardless of the rules, some players will always be great? If so, how much can you change the rules and still have this be true?



I can't lie, it is always interesting to think about what Wilt or Russell would do today! And I do agree that they'd be at the very top.

My view is that whether or not a player would be great today doesn't matter. Mikan won 7 titles(5 in the NBA) and just destroyed every league he played in. He was so good, when the NBL and BAA merged to form the NBA the BAA actually wanted to make the Lakers fold so Mikan could be put onto a bigger market team like New York.

With someone that powerful no matter what changes in the sport of basketball, I think we need to remember them as one of the greats

But if you're forcing me to decide if great players would be great no matter what, I'd say for the most part yes. My main reasoning is the "bridge" argument. Guys like Lovelette and Pettit played against the best of the 50's and the best of the 60's yet played very well. Mikkelsen played alongside Elgin Baylor ect. ect. Kareem is the most famous example, I'm sure you've heard that argument. Despite any rules changes, the guys that I've listed along with many others excelled.

I don't know how much the rules would have to change before I reconsidered things to be honest. The rules have changed a lot since the 50's but really the core fundamentals of basketball haven't changed at all. Starting as early as the 60's you already start to see "modern" basketball.

[9erempiree]

I don't like to compare players at all. For instance, Mikan was an amazing player and I leave it at that.

However, he had taken one year off. Then when he came back he averaged 10/8 in 20 min. 18/14.5/2.5 per 36 MIN.

His retirement had part to do with injuries, his body wasn't keeping up much anymore. I don't think the shotclock had as much to do with it as I hear.

edit: Not to mention he came in the middle of the season

"His body wasn't keeping up" therefore, there is no way he can play in today's era where there is a shot clock. Shot clock was implemented to keep the pace up and not some slow it down and rest during possessions.

I think the shot clock inadvertently caused his body to break down as the tempo of the game was quicker. That's the reason why they put it in.

[Colbertnation64]

"His body wasn't keeping up" therefore, there is no way he can play in today's era where there is a shot clock. Shot clock was implemented to keep the pace up and not some slow it down and rest during possessions.

I think the shot clock inadvertently caused his body to break down as the tempo of the game was quicker. That's the reason why they put it in.
There's a reason I'm not responding to you, lol. But just letting you know that his body had broken down before the shot clock was introduced. He retired before it was introduced then came back after a year off.

[9erempiree]

I don't know how much the rules would have to change before I reconsidered things to be honest. The rules have changed a lot since the 50's but really the core fundamentals of basketball haven't changed at all. Starting as early as the 60's you already start to see "modern" basketball.

60's showed no signs of modern basketball. There were still a huge gap between an athletic player and the regular Joe's who were in the league to fill up the roster.

In modern basketball, everything is equal except skill and mentality unless you are blessed with both and athletically gifted.

I think fundamentals have changed as players and coaches put more emphasis on other things because of their athletic ability has also risen but also some fundamentals are neglected as well.

[CavaliersFTW]

Can we finally put an end to this "farmer's boy" strength. One of the biggest misconception in training history and basketball history. Nobody has any of this so-called strength and if they did, it doesn't translate to real world training.

What are these farm boys going to do, lift hay? Last time I checked hay is a constant weight. You can't load up and go heavier. What they going to do, stack and lift 3 at a time?
Can the mods finally put an end to you?

[CavaliersFTW]

60's showed no signs of modern basketball. There were still a huge gap between an athletic player and the regular Joe's who were in the league to fill up the roster.

In modern basketball, everything is equal except skill and mentality unless you are blessed with both and athletically gifted.

I think fundamentals have changed as players and coaches put more emphasis on other things because of their athletic ability has also risen but also some fundamentals are neglected as well.

Jerry West and Bob Pettit, 25-30ppg superstars

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v5xrjzURvOg/UQyUfqYaBZI/AAAAAAAAEGI/fum4IvyIEbs/s800/WestDunks.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4c2NSvkAQoY/UQynETA_6FI/AAAAAAAAEI8/I1tlxzcLX08/s800/Bob%2520Pettit%2520steal%2520and%2520dunk.gif




Jim King, 6 foot 2 inch 7ppg roleplayer...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/125/0/f/jimkingdunk_by_dantheman9758-d4yksc3.gif



So... Where's the wide disparity in athleticism?

[BoutPractice]

It's strange how we forget that many of the current era's star players aren't the most athletic, nor do they have the most fluid or eye pleasing game...

Let's look at some All-Star players since the 00s. Imagine you've never seen any of them before. Now imagine watching only 2 minutes of random plays (not ESPN style highlights, mind you) from those players. Forget the colour, forget the HD: you only have grainy b&w footage.

Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Love
Roy Hibbert
Brook Lopez
Al Horford
Rip Hamilton
Zach Randolph
LaMarcus Aldridge
Luol Deng
Mo Williams
Brad Miller
David West
Chris Kaman
Carlos Boozer
Vlade Divac
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Josh Howard
Mehmet Okur
Elton Brand

Or even without the footage. Just picture b&w photos of say, Steve Nash and Zach Randolph.

I wonder what people will think of some of those players a few decades from now... We know they're damn good, but the fact that those who witnessed the superstars from the 60s had the same knowledge doesn't change much about how we typically view that era.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Can the mods finally put an end to you?
Mods can't ban anyone.

[RR#9]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/001/443/156/GeorgeMikan3_display_image.jpg?1318911840
Looks pretty buff

[Colbertnation64]

It's strange how we forget that many of the current era's star players aren't the most athletic, nor do they have the most fluid or eye pleasing game...

Let's look at some All-Star players since the 00s. Imagine you've never seen any of them before. Now imagine watching only 2 minutes of random plays (not ESPN style highlights, mind you) from those players. Forget the colour, forget the HD: you only have grainy b&w footage.

Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Love
Roy Hibbert
Brook Lopez
Al Horford
Rip Hamilton
Zach Randolph
LaMarcus Aldridge
Luol Deng
Mo Williams
Brad Miller
David West
Chris Kaman
Carlos Boozer
Vlade Divac
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Josh Howard
Mehmet Okur
Elton Brand

Or even without the footage. Just picture b&w photos of say, Steve Nash and Zach Randolph.

I wonder what people will think of some of those players a few decades from now... We know they're damn good, but the fact that those who witnessed the superstars from the 60s had the same knowledge doesn't change much about how we typically view that era.

This is a damn good post :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

It's strange how we forget that many of the current era's star players aren't the most athletic, nor do they have the most fluid or eye pleasing game...

Let's look at some All-Star players since the 00s. Imagine you've never seen any of them before. Now imagine watching only 2 minutes of random plays (not ESPN style highlights, mind you) from those players. Forget the colour, forget the HD: you only have grainy b&w footage.

Tim Duncan
Dirk Nowitzki
Steve Nash
Paul Pierce
Chauncey Billups
Kevin Love
Roy Hibbert
Brook Lopez
Al Horford
Rip Hamilton
Zach Randolph
LaMarcus Aldridge
Luol Deng
Mo Williams
Brad Miller
David West
Chris Kaman
Carlos Boozer
Vlade Divac
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Josh Howard
Mehmet Okur
Elton Brand

Or even without the footage. Just picture b&w photos of say, Steve Nash and Zach Randolph.

I wonder what people will think of some of those players a few decades from now... We know they're damn good, but the fact that those who witnessed the superstars from the 60s had the same knowledge doesn't change much about how we typically view that era.
..

[colts19]

This was during the 50's and 60's when basketball was an infant. The rules were not set in stone like they are now. Those guys that drop 30 points on Russell and Wilt says a lot of how the game was played. These two are looked upon as the greatest and you have white guys dropping 30 points on them?

Like I said, they were probably camping in the lane and jacking up shots. These white guys you speak about would not last in today's league without camping in the middle. They would get a violation and they don't look very strong to get position inside.

When I was in junior high school, back in the 60"s Clyde was the dean of boys and later was the Sheriff of my county. I knew him well and I can tell you for a fact he was as strong as a Bull.

[Nezty]

Bird played against guys like Jordan, Magic, Isiah, Irving, etc. Mikan played against the guy that makes your coffee at Starbucks.


How old are you?

[9erempiree]

Ban me for what? For having an opinion? I believe that athletes have gotten better over the course of decades and this is the same for basketball.

Basketball records are broken and being consumed by players that played in the modern era.

Another example of athletes being better is from nutrition, medicine and science. Why do you guys think that most Olympic records are also being held by the modern athlete.

Farm boy isn't going to hold any Olympic records.

[9erempiree]

Jerry West and Bob Pettit, 25-30ppg superstars

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-v5xrjzURvOg/UQyUfqYaBZI/AAAAAAAAEGI/fum4IvyIEbs/s800/WestDunks.gif

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4c2NSvkAQoY/UQynETA_6FI/AAAAAAAAEI8/I1tlxzcLX08/s800/Bob%2520Pettit%2520steal%2520and%2520dunk.gif




Jim King, 6 foot 2 inch 7ppg roleplayer...

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/123/f/1/jimmyking1964_by_dantheman9758-d4ygg1c.gif

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/125/0/f/jimkingdunk_by_dantheman9758-d4yksc3.gif



So... Where's the wide disparity in athleticism?

I also mentioned that the gap between players are determined by skill and mentality. Although the role player might be just as athletic as West and Pettit the difference lies in their skill and mentality.

Hence, that's why one is a role player and the other is considered one of the best SG in history.

[boozehound]

andre drummond is about that weight and he is as nimble as they come.

[IGotACoolStory]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Xu1Sdat4pgU/TDSx5fQBT8I/AAAAAAAACPE/0SeNUf2D2pw/s400/Wilt+at+Overbrook+High.jpg

[outbreak]

One think all the people saying they'd suck today are forgetting is that it isn't like their going to be bought here in a time machine and play as they were in their day. If they grew up now they would have access to the same facilities and tape modern players have. They would be viewing modern basketball and playing with modern tactics and modern moves. At they time they played in the style that fit how the league ran those days. It's hard to judge a lot of players from other eras but anyone with the touch and dominance some of these guys had would have a damn good shot at being serviceable in this current league given all the modern training they would get access too. Their mostly physically fine for the current NBA just need to alter play styles to fit in on some of them.
Even if their competition wasn't the best you can compare them to players who dominated in high school/college. NBA teams still go crazy for these guys and once they get access to modern training they beef up and refine their skills to fit the current NBA. Your saying players 50 years ago wouldn't be able to adjust to the nba because of the weak competition they face is crazy.

[SilkkTheShocker]

How old are you?

There are online dating sites for that type of stuff. Please keep that crap of ISH. This is a family-friendly website.

[SpecialQue]

George Mikan in today's era: insurance salesman

You in today's era:



-Once went to my friend's house party. Who happened to have a hot sister. She was out of town for some kind retreat. So at one point in the night I snuck in her room and beat off in her underwear drawer.
- I have a recurring dream where im in the middle of a graveyard beating off


:coleman:

[SilkkTheShocker]

You in today's era:



:coleman:


In my defense, those were more impressive achievements anything Mikan did in that era.

[SpecialQue]

In my defense, those were more impressive achievements anything Mikan did in that era.

So, let me see if I'm understanding your train of thought:

You beating off into an underwear drawer > winning multiple championships.

I think we're done here.

[Whoah10115]

You in today's era:



:coleman:



I kinda agree with him:confusedshrug:


That level of creepiness can only be matched by the Celtics' 11 in 13.

[Simple Jack]

-Once went to my friend's house party. Who happened to have a hot sister. She was out of town for some kind retreat. So at one point in the night I snuck in her room and beat off in her underwear drawer.
- I have a recurring dream where im in the middle of a graveyard beating off

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheBigVeto]

It's pretty much been said about Larry Bird. I don't think he would dominate in this era.

You can't say that about Dirk because Dirk has been playing in modern basketball for his entire life.

Bird was playing in an era when basketball didn't care about defense. I don't think they practiced complex defensive scheme back in the days.

http://oi53.tinypic.com/34rtwyh.jpg


http://i1253.photobucket.com/albums/hh600/Rodman2124/kobeclutch.gif

[PrettyCool]

So, let me see if I'm understanding your train of thought:

You beating off into an underwear drawer > winning multiple championships.

I think we're done here.

Forget the multiple championships.

Having a job as an insurance salesman > jerking off in an underwear drawer.

[jongib369]

He talks about it in one of the parts (9 total) of his interview with Tim Duncan. I think it's in this part:
http://www.nba.com/spurs/multimedia/russell_duncan_pt2.html

...280lbs is MASSIVE even by today's standards, which greatly helps explain his dominance. 6-10 (which is extremely likely to be ~his w/o shoes height) would be roughly Patrick Ewing, Joakim Noah, Hakeem Olajuwon's height etc which is about typical of a good big man. As a "skinny" rookie his list weight was 245lbs (5lbs heavier than Dwight Howard as a rookie). And w/o bulking his arms up he eventually filled out to 280lbs which is LSU Shaq / Philadelphia Wilt territory, and still about 10lbs heavier than Dwight. - "farm strong". Imagine if he took HGH and spent hours a day at the gym, he would potentially be like 300+ if he played in the modern era :eek:

http://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/LotImages/25/ce37de99-9915-40fc-9526-b34c093b6e8e_lg.jpeg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx69x0B7U00

Never read he weighed that much before O_O
I see no reason why he couldn't adjust and be effective to some degree.
http://www.mmbolding.com/basketball/Globetrotters.htm

good read on the Lakers VS Globetrotters

[jongib369]

Clyde Lovellette who served as a backup for Mikan in the early stages of his career and was also white, insurance man looking routinely poured in 25-30 points on 50% shooting on Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain

http://stats.nba.com/playerGameLogs.html?PlayerID=77414&Season=1959-60&sortField=Game_ID_SORT&sortOrder=DES

I know some people can't believe it but...elite players are elite players no matter what. Mikan was a great player, too many people want to take that away from him.

http://www.hoopszone.net/Kentucky/Kansas/Players/L/lovellette-clyde_files/image002.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM

Agreed

[LikeABosh]

So swole :bowdown: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/pics/50395_01_lg.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

So swole :bowdown: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/pics/50395_01_lg.jpg
:lol
http://www.mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/hakeem-ewing.jpg

But u know, many big men look like shit in their twilight, right?

Sabonis, Shaq, Yao, Walton?

Literally none of them looked athletic at all in their Twilight. Mikan is a wide bodied huge as dude no matter how you look at it. 245lbs-280lbs ~6-10 w/o shoes Is big.

Mikan at bat after retiring from basketball
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/George-Mikan-Takes-BP-1957-Minneapolis-Lakers-ABA-8x10-Press-Photo-Basketball-/00/s/OTA0WDcyNw==/$T2eC16V,!)!E9s2fB+b7BQr9!EzDQw~~60_57.JPG

[willds09]

Damn isn't bill Russell like 137 years old or something??:lol

[fpliii]

Damn isn't bill Russell like 137 years old or something??:lol

Don't disrespect Big Bill...

[Nezty]

There are online dating sites for that type of stuff. Please keep that crap of ISH. This is a family-friendly website.


Why you assuming that kindda stuff? you probably in to that kindda stuff. I'm asking because I highly doubt you watched any bit of ball in that era.

[CavaliersFTW]

You know a lot about basketball but weight training you don't. There is no way he bulks up to 300.

As good as Mikan was, he looked pretty slow footed. Unless there are video to prove me wrong.

http://www.nba.com/media/history/lakers_mikan_240.jpg

http://grassrootswritersguild.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/mikanlow1.jpg?w=500
Pic of Dwight with a camera with no better focal-length lens technology than 1950's:
http://idotvstuff.com/uploaded_images/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

Pic of Dwight with 600mm zoom lens that did not exist in the 1950'shttp://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/when-dwight-steps-to-the-line-kobe-needs-something-to-gnaw-on-getty-images.jpg

Short zoom (left) = 50's style lenses. Higher zoom (right) = closer to sports photography lenses of the modern era - but sports phography lenses actually fill out even more than this:
http://www.ontakingpictures.com/postImages/Mary_focallength1.jpg


Thus, you can't compare photographs of 50's players to modern players. A 50's player who was as bulky or wide bodied as a modern player or perhaps even MORE so is NOT going to appear the same way as a player today will appear on the court given the crude 35mm handheld journalists cameras of the 50s vs the 30,000 dollar telephoto cameras that the NBA and Media now uses which have actually been designed to make players look huge. For marketing reasons it is no mistake that Camera lenses used today are specifically intended to fill out players to make them look as huge and alien as possible. HOWEVER, look at pics of players taken with point and shoot cameras with the zoom turned off. Suddenly they look human again, and dare I say, not much more impressive than that 280lb "Insurance Salesmen" Mikan :oldlol:

The incredible "Bulk" of players in modern sports photography is an illusion.

[jongib369]

Pic of Dwight with a camera with no better focal-length lens technology than 1950's:
http://idotvstuff.com/uploaded_images/Kaci-with-Dwight-Howard-717686.jpg

Pic of Dwight with 600mm zoom lens that did not exist in the 1950'shttp://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/when-dwight-steps-to-the-line-kobe-needs-something-to-gnaw-on-getty-images.jpg

Short zoom (left) = 50's style lenses. Higher zoom (right) = closer to sports photography lenses of the modern era - but sports phography lenses actually fill out even more than this:
http://www.ontakingpictures.com/postImages/Mary_focallength1.jpg


Thus, you can't compare photographs of 50's players to modern players. A 50's player who was as bulky or wide bodied as a modern player or perhaps even MORE so is NOT going to appear the same way as a player today will appear on the court given the crude 35mm handheld journalists cameras of the 50s vs the 30,000 dollar telephoto cameras that the NBA and Media now uses which have actually been designed to make players look huge. For marketing reasons it is no mistake that Camera lenses used today are specifically intended to fill out players to make them look as huge and alien as possible. HOWEVER, look at pics of players taken with point and shoot cameras with the zoom turned off. Suddenly they look human again, and dare I say, not much more impressive than that 280lb "Insurance Salesmen" Mikan :oldlol:

The incredible "Bulk" of players in modern sports photography is an illusion.
Bob Cousy

Short zoom (left) = 50's style lenses. Higher zoom (right)

http://redsarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bob-cousy.jpg http://oi43.tinypic.com/2n8q8zr.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Bob Cousy

Short zoom (left) = 50's style lenses. Higher zoom (right)

http://redsarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bob-cousy.jpg http://oi43.tinypic.com/2n8q8zr.jpg
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[TheTenth]

I don't think Mikan is one of the stars of the early era that could translate. Him (along with nearly every other star) saw significant decreases in their stats after the implementation of the shot clock.

I did some t-tests a while back and found that all the HoFers in 1954/55 and all stars in 1954 saw decreases in FG%, PPG and Points Per 36 Minutes in adjusted statistics at a 10% alpha level while their MPG and Fouls Per 36 did not see statistically significant drops.

Mikan in fact was being made less effective over his career due to a variety of factors:
A. Merger of NBL/BAA
B. Widening of 3 second lane
C. 24 second shot clock

^ Also someone linked the globetrotters article, but wasn't the tallest globetrotter 6'6? It's not quite the same comparison to him playing in the 60s.

The player that I think may have actually benefited the most in the modern game (pure speculation obviously) would be Jim Pollard; however he is never talked about. I've seen claims of him having a 42 inch vertical, not sure how accurate they though.

[jongib369]

http://redsarmy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/bob-cousy.jpg

VS


http://wfiles.brothersoft.com/s/sylvester_stallone_62963-1400x1050.jpg



http://oi43.tinypic.com/2n8q8zr.jpg

VS

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/010/0/3/sylvester_stallone_by_rwpike-d36vcu3.jpg

Damn those 50's lenses and Sterns agenda to prop up todays players. I think I'm onto something big here....Cousy unmasked?

[Haymaker]

So Russell took Mikan to a weight meter that day and asked him to step on it?

[jongib369]

I don't think Mikan is one of the stars of the early era that could translate. Him (along with nearly every other star) saw significant decreases in their stats after the implementation of the shot clock.

I did some t-tests a while back and found that all the HoFers in 1954/55 and all stars in 1954 saw decreases in FG%, PPG and Points Per 36 Minutes in adjusted statistics at a 10% alpha level while their MPG and Fouls Per 36 did not see statistically significant drops.

Mikan in fact was being made less effective over his career due to a variety of factors:
A. Merger of NBL/BAA
B. Widening of 3 second lane
C. 24 second shot clock

^ Also someone linked the globetrotters article, but wasn't the tallest globetrotter 6'6? It's not quite the same comparison to him playing in the 60s.

The player that I think may have actually benefited the most in the modern game (pure speculation obviously) would be Jim Pollard; however he is never talked about. I've seen claims of him having a 42 inch vertical, not sure how accurate they though.
This isn't saying much but

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM


6'9 (today would be listed as 6'11) 235 rookie height and weight


only listing 2 seasons each

Wilt- 31PPG First 2 seasons 17 games total

Clyde 21PPG 8th-9th season




Russell 18 PPG 21 total games 1957-58 1960-61

Clyde 20PPG


I'm sure Mikan could play if Clyde wasn't completely mopped by those 2

[CavaliersFTW]

So Russell took Mikan to a weight meter that day and asked him to step on it?
In 40 years when the info of today that is so easily accessible to us right now becomes "rare" and someone interviews a very old Tim Duncan and Timmy says "When I went up against Shaq on _____ occasion he was about 360 at the time" and they comb through old internet articles and only manage to find Shaq's rookie weigh in of "only" 303lbs I'm sure they'll say the same thing your saying.

Fact is unless a player was drafted fat he will typically get bigger from their rookie season. Be it from fat, muscle, or w/e. How did he figure Mikan was 280? I don't know, maybe it was common knowledge back then - printed on a pamphlet or something. Maybe that was what his weight was being advertised at the time. Take it with a grain of Salt, but I have little reason to doubt Mikan could have started at 245 and balooned 280 by the time he was on his way out of the league.

[TheTenth]

I'm sure Mikan could play if Clyde wasn't completely mopped by those 2
That's not quite sound reasoning. Clyde was only backup to Mikan because 53/54 was his rookie season and even then that's not fair because the game still suited Mikan; allowing him time to jog up the court to get into his post position. Remember once the shot clock came into action, it wasn't just Mikan who suddenly became mortal, but nearly every player; especially ones like Ed Macauley and Arnie Risen who suddenly became much worse players. In the adjusted stats I did for them; Macauley went from a .600 to .500 shooter from 54 to 55.

Besides Lovellette was much different than Mikan in terms of style. Mikan was a low post bruiser while Lovellette was more of a long set/jump shot player with some hooks inside from what I have read. I'm guessing Lovellette was also in better shape than Mikan; although I could be totally wrong.

[LongLiveTheKing]

He's 245
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikange01.html

[Marchesk]

I respect the work you've put into showcasing the 60s players on Youtube, but you've had to make quite a few excuses for why the game back then doesn't pass the eyeball test in comparison to the game today. You've mentioned dribbling rules, to shoes, to the court, quality of the video, lack of video, and now quality of camera.

I'm torn between thinking some of the best in the 60s had the game to translate to the modern era, and thinking that there's no way the game was at the level being played now. Even looking at video from the 80s makes me question the game then, somewhat.

Two thing stand out to me today: defense and athleticism. They seem to be off the charts in comparison to bygone eras. Now of course there have always been exceptional athletes, and it's hard to deny that a genuine 7'1" guy with the athleticism, strength and stamina of Wilt couldn't transition into being a force today, but I'm not so sure with most of the other players. Russell was clearly athletic enough. West looks like he has the closest thing to a modern offensive game from that era. Baylor was probably athletic enough. Gus Johnson was quite the athlete. So maybe a dozen players from that era, with the majority being bigs.

Mikan, though? I really wonder about his athleticism. We've seen how stiff white guys do in the modern NBA. However, if you're big enough with some skill, you can get by. So maybe.

Edit: must people post pics larger than the typical screen size? Sheesh.

[jongib369]

He's 245
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikange01.html
Rookie Weight

[boozehound]

pretty sure drummond weights about this.

[Round Mound]

Too bad he didn't play against those guys on a daily basis.

A majority of the league back then were weak. You just happened to name-drop all the Hall of Famers.

He was usually up against some bums. Irving beat his ass before.

:roll: :facepalm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoGmMx8Ejrw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHk8Zntc5g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrdR5JsExI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQMhnYL5GJM

:applause: :bowdown: :pimp: :rockon: :pimp: :sleeping

Now STFU

[secund2nun]

The guy played against a bunch of small white guys LOL

If Mikan played in the NBA today he would remind you of an old Big Z who could hardly move. He has no athleticism at all and merely used his size advantage to beat up on the Starbucks employee quality short white guys he played against back then.

[CavaliersFTW]

He's 245
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikange01.html
That's what they penciled him in as a rookie.

See this thread if you think that has any bearing on how much he actually weighed throughout the rest of his career:
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306527

[CavaliersFTW]

pretty sure drummond weights about this.
He does, Drummond is a big boy! Also FWIW Roy Hibbert weighed about 280 last season.

[DCL]

from every clip i've ever seen of him, mikan always looked hella slow to me.

but so were everyone else.

[TheBigVeto]

I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

They will. Racism against fair-skinned people is alive and well.

[ralph_i_el]

He was a great player for his era. In this era there is a better chance of him doing your taxes than playing professional basketball.

I guarantee you there are more 6'10" ballplayers than 6'10" accountants

[feyki]

I don't think he was 280 lbs . He was quick,agile,explosive for his position . He had elite shooting, high volume scoring at the rim and versatile defending . He was Marc Gasol with Hakeem's agile and offensive skills .

[ISHGoat]

theres no way that Mikan was ever above 250

[FKAri]

I wonder if people will come out with stupid, ignorant and naive statements like that about Larry Bird and Dirk Nowitzki in 50 years' time.

I heard Bill Russell described by someone as Joel Anthony lite :lol

[TheBigVeto]

George Mikan in today's era: insurance salesman

Who can destroy Lebron and Curry in basketball.