should dwyane wades resurection/take over/heat streak cost lebron mvp?

[kennethgriffin]

i mean common.. the heat are a near 60 win team without lebron

more deserving guys out there with less help

its not the "most efficient per of the year award" or "best player award"


its the most valuable player to your team award... lebron isnt as valuable as many others to his respective team

[kNicKz]

Lebron is the MVP , I'm sorry Kenneth. He is clearly the best player in the league. That is just a fact we have to accept right now

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Lebron is the MVP , I'm sorry Kenneth. He is clearly the best player in the league. That is just a fact we have to accept right now
Shaq has 1 MVP :rant

[cotdt]

MVP is usually about the best player on the best team. It's going to be Lebron unless Miami starts losing and OKC goes on a long winning streak to finish ahead of Miami.

[G-Funk]

He's playing on a stacked team, that was the reason they did not to give more to Shaq & Kobe. MVP award is a JOKE.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Be that as it may, who else would you give it to? Westbrook has been playing just as well as Durant lately AND Parker is out w/ an injury. :confusedshrug:

[longhornfan1234]

LeBron is the reason for Wade's resurgence. LeBron gets all of defensive attention, and he creates easy buckets for Wade.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron is the MVP , I'm sorry Kenneth. He is clearly the best player in the league. That is just a fact we have to accept right now

how many times has the best player in the league won mvp over the last 2 decades

1993 barkley ( best player jordan )
1995 robinson ( best player hakeem )
1997 malone ( best player jordan )
1999 malone ( best player shaq )
2001 iverson ( best player shaq )
2002 duncan ( best player shaq )
2003 duncan ( best player kobe )
2005 nash ( best player duncan*kobe injured )
2006 nash ( best player kobe )
2007 dirk ( best player kobe )
2011 rose ( best player lebron )


:confusedshrug:

when has mvp ever been about "the best stats/player" until the past few seasons.. they just wanna change the criteria so lebron gets more mvps than mj

[truhooper]

you're so mad

[Jailblazers7]

Every legit MVP candidate this season plays on a great team. Not sure why Lebron would be the only one penalized for it.

[kennethgriffin]

you're so mad

ya so

being mad about being mad is sooo 2011 bro

you missed that meme era i guess

i'm mad as hell :P

the media is ruining the prestige of the award.

[Mr. Incredible]

Lol this dude, I swear. So salty. I love it.

[kennethgriffin]

not even michael jordan managed 4 mvps in 5 years. and he had the best stats/per was considered the best player from 88-93 ( 6 years )

[HiphopRelated]

LeBron is the reason for Wade's resurgence. LeBron gets all of defensive attention, and he creates easy buckets for Wade.
lol, that goes completely both ways. Lebron doesn't face double teams anymore, you think he's shooting 56% by accident?

[kennethgriffin]

Lol this dude, I swear. So salty. I love it.


i am .. it isnt fair for guys like kobe/hakeem/shaq who should all have multiple mvps

theyre raping the award

again. the UMAD thing is played out. i can be mad if i want. its a legitimate case

the media has ruined the best regular season award in my fav sport. i should be mad. its like throwing acid on a new borns face.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

not even michael jordan managed 4 mvps in 5 years. and he had the best stats/per was considered the best player from 88-93 ( 6 years )

Right, but again, who else has a case besides Lebron?

[kennethgriffin]

Every legit MVP candidate this season plays on a great team. Not sure why Lebron would be the only one penalized for it.


theres a difference between great and unbeatable

if heat break that 33 game win streak... i dont think lebron should ever win another mvp... hes only averaging 26ppg... his rebounds and assists arnt much better than any other year

its just his fg% that people are saying hes having his best season for. and who wouldnt shoot a high fg% on a team that could win 60 games without its best player

[Jailblazers7]

theres a difference between great and unbeatable

if heat break that 33 game win streak... i dont think lebron should ever win another mvp... hes only averaging 26ppg... his rebounds and assists arnt much better than any other year

its just his fg% that people are saying hes having his best season for. and who wouldnt shoot a high fg% on a team that could win 60 games without its best player

Your basing all this on the assumption that the Heat would still be great without Lebron and I'm just not seeing it.

He is the leading rebounder on a team that is already last in the league in rebounding, leads the team in scoring and assists, and leads the team in minutes. Without him, the Heat probably start a 34 year old Shane Battier at SF and Wade is forced to play more of a PG role with Chalmers playing off ball. I highly doubt they win 60 games w/o him.

Basically you are making no sense. He shouldn't win MVP because he made his team look too good?

[G-Funk]

Every legit MVP candidate this season plays on a great team. Not sure why Lebron would be the only one penalized for it.


Wade, Bosh>>>>>>>>>>Westbrook, Ibaka>>>>Duncan, Ginobli

[longhornfan1234]

Wade, Bosh>>>>>>>>>>Westbrook, Ibaka>>>>Duncan, Ginobli
I agree with Bosh > Ibaka. Westbrook is clearly better than Wade. Better passer, defender, rebounder, scorer, and slasher. Westbrook has been much more consistent than Wade this season.

[kNicKz]

I agree that Jordan got snubbed a couple times for MVP, but that doesn't mean that it's ok to snub Lebron for MVP. He is the most valuable player in the league

[Jailblazers7]

I agree with Bosh > Ibaka. Westbrook is clearly better than Wade. Better passer, defender, rebounder, scorer, and slasher. Westbrook has been much more consistent than Wade this season.

Is Bosh really better than Ibaka tho? Sure, he is a better scorer but Ibaka is much better on defense. They are prob pretty even as far as the value they bring to a team.

And Duncan > Bosh and Parker get to play for Pop who is infinitely better than Spoels.

[Kingwillball]

Your basing all this on the assumption that the Heat would still be great without Lebron and I'm just not seeing it.

He is the leading rebounder on a team that is already last in the league in rebounding, leads the team in scoring and assists, and leads the team in minutes. Without him, the Heat probably start a 34 year old Shane Battier at SF and Wade is forced to play more of a PG role with Chalmers playing off ball. I highly doubt they win 60 games w/o him.

Basically you are making no sense. He shouldn't win MVP because he made his team look too good?

This.. Plenty of years prime Wade lead heat were a 40 win team. I think without lebron Bosh averages 20 but they are 45-50 win team max.. Lebron is that good and does it all for Heat. Same reason Cavs were a top team as well. He is the straw that stirs drink.

[HardwoodLegend]

I've seen you say in the past that you don't care if LeBron gets the MVP because the award is already tarnished.

Why are you complaining now and saying that the award "will be" tarnished if he gets it?

Stop being such a flipflopper, kenneth.

[detroitdogg]

I agree with Bosh > Ibaka. Westbrook is clearly better than Wade. Better passer, defender, rebounder, scorer, and slasher. Westbrook has been much more consistent than Wade this season.
Westbrook is nowhere near the level of D Wade right now, let alone any timed comparison at all. Are you ****in serious, a better scorer lmao, a better defender (this is easily the dumbest shit I have ever heard, D Wade is a all time great defensively), not a better passer at all, rebounding is close, Russ is one of the best, not a better scorer on any level at all, not a better slasher at all. *****, you gotta be shittin me???

[kennethgriffin]

Right, but again, who else has a case besides Lebron?


how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

?

[Nezty]

This.. Plenty of years prime Wade lead heat were a 40 win team. I think without lebron Bosh averages 20 but they are 45-50 win team max.. Lebron is that good and does it all for Heat. Same reason Cavs were a top team as well. He is the straw that stirs drink.



How you gonna compare those shit Heat teams to the one they have now? Without Lebron this Heat team is just as good. They have great role players and would have Wade and Bosh with bigger roles.

[kennethgriffin]

I've seen you say in the past that you don't care if LeBron gets the MVP because the award is already tarnished.

Why are you complaining now and saying that the award "will be" tarnished if he gets it?

Stop being such a flipflopper, kenneth.

i never said i didn't care about lebron winning it. i said the value of the award has been ruined

i still wanna see the award be consistent with past voting... so the all time comparisons cant be used against anyone. since for some eras the mvp wasnt about the best player or best stats. and in other eras it is..

[All Net]

Wishful thinking thread...

[asdf1990]

how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season in nba history ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

?

you mean the guy who has lost to lebron 6 games in a row? whose numbers are ridiculously inflated cause of the cheap touch whistles he gets? The guy who has great numbers but those numbers don't indicate how little impact he has on the games from the thunder games I've seen this season and last.

Durant lost his chance to win the MVP after he got destroyed by lebron in one of the most rigged games of the decade where the refs tried to bring the thunder back as hard as possible in OKC

[kennethgriffin]

Wishful thinking thread...


all i'm trying to do is save the award/ and its history/ the nba's integrity


because if they give lebron the mvp this year. they wont have an argument against giving him the next 5-7.. lebron will finish with 8-10 mvps

because all lebron will have to do is stay on a stacked team and pad his fg% to win the award. no storylines, critera changes will be possible.

if they voted based on "best player".... jordan would have 10 mvps. kobe would have 5 mvps, shaq would have 5 mvps

why is it only lebron gets the benifit of the medias biased treatment

[LikeABosh]

Absolutely any stat will show you how valuable Lebron is. The Heat's offensive and defensive ratings tank when Lebron is on the bench. Lebron is the MVP, deal with it ******

[PJR]

Ofcourse not.

Wade is overrated, a non 1st team All NBA player, vastly inferior to Kobe da gawd.

Clearly being carried by LeBron.....

Atleast this was the agenda that kennethgriffin was driving home last week.


P.S. OP is a fakkit.

[HiphopRelated]

This.. Plenty of years prime Wade lead heat were a 40 win team. I think without lebron Bosh averages 20 but they are 45-50 win team max.. Lebron is that good and does it all for Heat. Same reason Cavs were a top team as well. He is the straw that stirs drink.
they won 43 with rookies as the next best players and 47 the next year.

[#number6ix#]

how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

?
Kevin Martin is no scrub he lead every team he played for in scoring he's not the playmaker harden is but he's no scrub. When a guy is leading his team in scoring rebs ast and that team has the best record that's MVP material

[tazb]

If (when) LeBron gets MVP he just needs one more Finals MVP to pass Kobe. Kobe-tards are shook.:lol

[ripthekik]

This.. Plenty of years prime Wade lead heat were a 40 win team. I think without lebron Bosh averages 20 but they are 45-50 win team max.. Lebron is that good and does it all for Heat. Same reason Cavs were a top team as well. He is the straw that stirs drink.
Prime Wade didn't have a Bosh in his team..

please. I agree with kenneth, great points. How do you give him MVP when Wade has been the main reason for the streak anyways? (In the last 10 games, his stats are better than lebron, and he has also been very clutch and closing games)

Without lebron, heat with Wade and Bosh are still top seed in the east. So what's so valuable about lebron? He's just stat-padding in a good team. What's valuable in that?

[ripthekik]

If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.

[arifgokcen]

Prime Wade didn't have a Bosh in his team..

please. I agree with kenneth, great points. How do you give him MVP when Wade has been the main reason for the streak anyways? (In the last 10 games, his stats are better than lebron, and he has also been very clutch and closing games)

Without lebron, heat with Wade and Bosh are still top seed in the east. So what's so valuable about lebron? He's just stat-padding in a good team. What's valuable in that?

I laughed at this part more than anything else.I know you are trolling but when he was in cavs trolls like you had the same exact argument.He is statpadding because he is on a bad team.

In every case this guy is statpadding interesting:roll: :roll: :roll:

[LikeABosh]

If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.
WTF you talking about bruh?

[kennethgriffin]

If (when) LeBron gets MVP he just needs one more Finals MVP to pass Kobe. Kobe-tards are shook.:lol


i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio

[ripthekik]

WTF you talking about bruh?
Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.

[arifgokcen]

If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.
Again who are those teams.Because i dont know a team that has five all stars.

Though lakers starting unit have all been all stars though you cant be talking about lakers since they have more than 27 losses.Miami has 3 all stars and one former allstar thats about it.

You cant be talking about thunder because they are better then 55-27 but worse than 65-17 and RWB is playing better than KD since allstar break.

[The Iron Fist]

Right, but again, who else has a case besides Lebron?
Chris Paul

[All Net]

all i'm trying to do is save the award/ and its history/ the nba's integrity


because if they give lebron the mvp this year. they wont have an argument against giving him the next 5-7.. lebron will finish with 8-10 mvps

because all lebron will have to do is stay on a stacked team and pad his fg% to win the award. no storylines, critera changes will be possible.

if they voted based on "best player".... jordan would have 10 mvps. kobe would have 5 mvps, shaq would have 5 mvps

why is it only lebron gets the benifit of the medias biased treatment

As long as Lebron keeps putting up amazing stats and keeps winning alot of games he will keep winning MVPS...

[ripthekik]

Again who are those teams.Because i dont know a team that has five all stars.

Though lakers starting unit have all been all stars though you cant be talking about lakers since they have more than 27 losses.Miami has 3 all stars and one former allstar thats about it.

You cant be talking about thunder because they are better then 55-27 but worse than 65-17 and RWB is playing better than KD since allstar break.
Those are not realistic teams. They were made up by me. I just want you to tell me, who would you pick for MVP, if those were the 2 best records in the league.

[brandonislegend]

If (when) LeBron gets MVP he just needs one more Finals MVP to pass Kobe. Kobe-tards are shook.:lol

:biggums:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season in nba history ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

?

Cancerous? The guy has been on a tear post all-star break, moreover this last quarter of the season.

http://s24.postimage.org/gmrftqa6t/Untitled.jpg

[lebeast666]

i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio


You would take Kobe. But what you would do doesn't mean anything. Anybody with a head on their shoulders would take LeBron over Kobrick. :oldlol:

[arifgokcen]

Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.

Of course the first option A.It has always been the same.If your stats doesnt translate into wins what good is that.

Look at what love did previous seasons.He didnt even get a MVP consideration because of team record.

Look what lebron went through during 2006-2008 seasons when he was amazing and during rose MVP season.

Look at what kobe went through during his amazing 2005-2006 campaign.

Look at shaq he was the best player with best stats but his teams have never been very successful in RS.

Look what Hakeem went through when he was absolutely scorching every opponent after MJ first retirements.

Look at what MJ went through in his first couple of seasons.

STOP BICKERING dude MVP is predefined best player on one of the best teams.

Look at how Bird got his MVPs.He got three in a row with the one of the most stacked teams in modern history.

Look at how magic got his MVPs.He had a teammate that ranks #2 among all time greats.

Look at bill russell he had 5 HOFs and he still got that many MVPs.

[arifgokcen]

Those are not realistic teams. They were made up by me. I just want you to tell me, who would you pick for MVP, if those were the 2 best records in the league.
I told you look at my last post please and unlike other lebron fans i started liking and watching NBA with kobe so please dont throw some ridiculous accusations my way.I am just explaining the facts you are denying.

[jlip]

Thread was already done.
http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=292555

[LikeABosh]

Just answer the question. Should the MVP be given to:

A. the guy with the best stats in a star-filled team- of course leading to a league best record

or

B. the 1 star in a team that is playing crazy, but does not have the best team record.
Your scenario was ridiculous. You said;
"A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27"
Which two player are you trying to compare?

[Ne 1]

I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.

[DonDadda59]

Lebron is about as clear cut an MVP as there has been historically. He fits the bill no matter what angle you look at it from. Best player in the league? Lebron. Best player on the best team? Lebron. Guy who does the most for his team? Lebron.

I'm curious- if Lebron isn't the MVP, then who is in your opinion OP?

*Waits for half-baked, convoluted, nonsensical rambling about how Bean deserves it*

[LikeABosh]

I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.
Who's MVP then? The only other candidate close to him is Durant and he has great teammates as well.

[tazb]

If we make 2 teams.

A. 5 all stars, leading their team to 65-17
B. 1 Star, leading his team to 55-27

Should we give it to the guy in team A with the best stats, or to the 1 star in team B who is playing out of his mind?

This will put the whole thing into perspective.

I'm guessing the 1 star is Westbrook? :confusedshrug:

[DonDadda59]

I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record.

I feel like every year people predict that a team will surpass the Bulls' record. Hell, even World Peace said the Lakers were going for a 73-9 record when they acquired Nash and Howard. I think that turned out just a bit worse than when the Heat acquired Bosh and James :oldlol:

That's a silly benchmark to set for an MVP award. How many teams in NBA history have won 70 games? That's the benchmark for GOAT status, MVP standards are nowhere near that stringent.

[tazb]

i doubt it..

i'l still take

5 rings
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
4 allstar mvps
11 all nba 1st teams ( nba record ) as of this season
9 all defensive 1st teams ( nba record )
15 consecutive allstar starts ( nba record )
all time scorer a few years from now
all time playoff scorer a year from now
81 point career high ( 2nd best ever )
2nd most 60 point games
3rd most 50 point games
best 15th,16th,17th year player in nba history ( best longevity )
45+ game winning shots ( most ever )


over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio

2 Finals MVPs + 4 MVPs >> 2 Finals MVPs + 1 MVP. Kobe's been in the league much longer than LeBron so of course he's going to have all of those extra stats.

[kennethgriffin]

2 Finals MVPs + 4 MVPs >> 2 Finals MVPs + 1 MVP. Kobe's been in the league much longer than LeBron so of course he's going to have all of those extra stats.


ya sure... if both players have the same number of championships

but kobe has 3 more championships with averages of

23/5/5
29/7/6
27/6/6

in the playoffs

which is on the same level as any of kareems non finals mvp. a legit star championship

only mj can say he won 3+ rings and won all the fmvps

so ya...

3 star titles by an mvp/fmvp winner > any number of additional season mvps


its more about # of rings by mvps than # of mvps by ring winners

shaq/kobe/hakeem/duncan are all routinely ranked way ahead of moses malone.. who has 3 mvps
















ether taste good?

[Ne 1]

Who's MVP then? The only other candidate close to him is Durant and he has great teammates as well.

Yeah, Durant (or even Parker before he got injured. Heck, Nash won MVPs with similar numbers) would probably be the best choice. They got it right in 2011 with Rose (although some felt it should have went to Dwight) Won't get into 2012 since that was a lock out season, so the MVP that season will just be a footnote like 1999. But no matter who you go with for MVP this year, it shouldn't be LeBron or Wade. And yes, Durant does have great teammates as well, but the Thunder don't have 3 superstars who are all in their prime, and Westbrook is a great player, but he's no Dwyane Wade, and not to mention they don't have a 3rd option anywhere close to a Chris Bosh.

[ripthekik]

I've said this since "the descion." LeBron should not win MVP unless Miami wins 70 games, or atleast close to 70 games. When LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to join forces, everyone was projecting the team to win close to 70 games, or even surpass the '96 Bulls 72 game game record. But once again, they are going to end up underachieving with worse records than the Cavs in 2009 and 2010 when LeBron won back-to-back MVPs. (I believe James even said himself he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP with them being on the same team.)

In short, with a more talented team, LeBron once again like 2011 (when he rightfully didn't win) is going to have fewer wins, and with worse overall stats.

MVP shouldn't automatically = best player on the team with the most wins. Especially when the team has 3 superstars all in their prime.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[All Net]

Lebron is about as clear cut an MVP as there has been historically. He fits the bill no matter what angle you look at it from. Best player in the league? Lebron. Best player on the best team? Lebron. Guy who does the most for his team? Lebron.

I'm curious- if Lebron isn't the MVP, then who is in your opinion OP?

*Waits for half-baked, convoluted, nonsensical rambling about how Bean deserves it*

He's even more clear cut than Shaq was in 2001 for example..

[secund2nun]

He's playing on a stacked team, that was the reason they did not to give more to Shaq & Kobe. MVP award is a JOKE.

Kobe deserved 0 MVPs. Duncan and Shaq deserved more though.

[DuMa]

just another pathetic kobe stan excuse

[PJR]

just another pathetic kobe stan excuse

trolling time LOL

It's been a real tough go for Kobe groupies as of late. The Heat haven't lost since the Super Bowl. LeBron is locked for a unanimous 4th NBA MVP, and Wade will have his 2nd finals MVP after the playoffs conclude.

Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.

Ouch.

[Ne 1]

That's a silly benchmark to set for an MVP award. How many teams in NBA history have won 70 games? That's the benchmark for GOAT status, MVP standards are nowhere near that stringent.

It's the bench mark for the 2011 and 2013 Heat team because 2 of the 3 best players in the entire NBA and another top 15-20 player/top 5 player at his position in the NBA all colluded to join forces.

[Ne 1]

trolling time LOL
Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.



trolling time LOL

But he has 5 rings with only 1 HOF teammate per title team. Unmatched in history :cheers:

[PJR]

Keep reaching with them arbitrary benchmarks, playboy. They don't hold any weight. :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

It's the bench mark for the 2011 and 2013 Heat team because 2 of the 3 best players in the entire NBA and another top 15-20 player/top 5 player at his position in the NBA all colluded to join forces.

That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's/Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/HOFers on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Ok, now name me one player who deserves it more than Lebron.
in b4 kobe

[arifgokcen]

That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's Lakers, Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/MVPs on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.

Dude thats the problem he cant.

riphtetik after my post got scared and couldnt answer just like this guy he just like other trolls chooses to ignore the posts he doesnt like or he ignores posts that he cant answer

[LikeABosh]

Make an argument for a player over Lebron for MVP. I'll wait

[Kews1]

2005 nash ( best player duncan*kobe injured )



**** your a little faggo't pointing out the kobe was injured as if that makes any difference you little ****

[ThunderStruk022]

i mean common.. the heat are a near 60 win team without lebron

more deserving guys out there with less help

its not the "most efficient per of the year award" or "best player award"


its the most valuable player to your team award... lebron isnt as valuable as many others to his respective team

theres a difference between great and unbeatable

if heat break that 33 game win streak... i dont think lebron should ever win another mvp... hes only averaging 26ppg... his rebounds and assists arnt much better than any other year

its just his fg% that people are saying hes having his best season for. and who wouldnt shoot a high fg% on a team that could win 60 games without its best player
Almost every single word of those two posts is beyond stupid.



How many times has the best player in the league won the MVP over the last 25 years?

2003 duncan ( best player kobe )
:oldlol: Good one.


i am .. it isnt fair for guys like kobe/hakeem/shaq who should all have multiple mvps
And right there you expose yourself. Another thread for you to bitch about LeBron while sucking Kobe's d**k.



how about a guy who doesnt have an mvp yet. and has a ton less help... and plays in a way tougher confrence. and is averaging way more points. and has to overcome a cancerous pg that shoots 40%fg's and takes more shots than him. and who lost their 3rd best player via salary dumping for garbage. and whos one of only a few guys in nba history to have a 50/40/90% season ( which is nearly impossible to have if you're leading the nba in scoring.. has it even happend before? )

Durant's played like absolute shit for a month now. Any case he had for the MVP is long, long gone. Westbrook has been OKC's best player (and by a pretty big margin) for a month.


all i'm trying to do is save the award/ and its history/ the nba's integrity
Bullshit. All you're doing is trying to discredit LeBron while also bitching about Kobe not having more MVP's.


i doubt it..

i'l still take

over lebrons 4-10 bogus media popularity mvp awards and his asterisk title or any other by this ring chasing colluding trio
:roll: LeBron's not winning the MVP because he's so popular. He's winning it because he's that damn good and far and away the best player in the league. And asterisk title? Does the NBA's official record books list that title with an asterisk next to it? Or is that just something else you've convinced yourself of regardless of how stupid it is?


You're the posterboy for ridiculous ISH stans. There's some other stupid stans that post on here more frequently, but you're easily the worst one...or best depending on how you look at it.

[Kingwillball]

trolling time LOL

It's been a real tough go for Kobe groupies as of late. The Heat haven't lost since the Super Bowl. LeBron is locked for a unanimous 4th NBA MVP, and Wade will have his 2nd finals MVP after the playoffs conclude.
Meanwhile, Kobe is clinging onto the 8th seed, while playing with 3 Hall of famers.

Ouch.

I agree except I say its 75% chance Lebron wins finals mvp if heat win cause he probably leads team in rebounding and assists and first or 2nd in scoring also.

[Kingwillball]

[QUOTE=Nezty]How you gonna compare those shit Heat teams to the one they have now? Without Lebron this Heat team is just as good. They have great role players and would have Wade and Bosh with bigger roles.

U are a fool if u think Heat would be as good without Lebron. The Cavs won 60 games with Just Lebron and bunch of role players. Not a knock on Wade but he didnt make team better like Lebron did when they were on own teams same with Bosh.

[Ne 1]

That's a stupid and arbitrary benchmark, like I already pointed out. Plenty of teams had stacked rosters historically. How many times did Russell's/Bird's Celtics, Magic's/Wilt's/Shaq's Lakers, etc win 70 games? It's only been done once and as coincidence would have it, the best player on that team is universally regarded as the GOAT.

Just because you throw all stars/HOFers on a team, it doesn't automatically guarantee success as we've seen this season with the Lakers (as well as in the past with Rockets when they acquired Pippen and Barkley, and the '04 Lakers... although they at least made the finals, they were crowned by many as the best team ever and a lock to break the wins record when they first came together).

Name one player who has a better case for MVP than Lebron.

LeBron himself said he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP playing on the same team together. I'm just agreeing with LeBron. As I said, the media got it right in 2011 when they didn't give it to Wade or LeBron, neither of them should win MVP on the same team together unless they are historically good, which the 2011 weren't and the 2012 Heat aren't. Forgot 70 games, they won't even win 60 games and they have more talent than any of the teams with the all-time best regular season winning percentages in the NBA history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_teams_by_single_season_win_percentage) .

:roll: @ comparing the '13 Lakers, '99 Rockets and '04 Lakers to the '11 Heat and '13 Heat. Talk about reaching.

[tmacattack33]

:roll:

Wade finally starts playing like he should, and "people" (in quotes because i'm not sure if the OP counts as a real fan) start going nuts about it.

I guess that just shows you how poorly Wade has been playing. People have very low expectations for him now after last year's regular season and playoffs (minus Indiana series).

[shady6121]

This is a really pathetic thread and I'm surprised it hasn't been locked/deleted yet smh. :facepalm

[tmacattack33]

LeBron himself said he didn't think he or Wade would win MVP playing on the same team together. I'm just agreeing with LeBron. As I said, the media got it right in 2011 when they didn't give it to Wade or LeBron, neither of them should win MVP on the same team together unless they are historically good, which the 2011 weren't and the 2012 Heat aren't. Forgot 70 games, they won't even win 60 games and they have more talent than any of the teams with the all-time best regular season winning percentages in the NBA history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NBA_teams_by_single_season_win_percentage) .

:roll: @ comparing the '13 Lakers, '99 Rockets and '04 Lakers to the '11 Heat and '13 Heat. Talk about reaching.

Well Lebron is not nostradamus.

He had no idea that Wade would decline so fast and that he would completely take over the team like he has.



And if you are really do listen to what the players say themselves, well then Wade has come out many times recently and talked about how he has let Lebron take the team over because he doesn't care about stats and just wants to win.

[Lord Leoshes]

[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]I agree with Bosh > Ibaka. Westbrook is clearly better than Wade. Better passer, defender, rebounder, scorer, and slasher. Westbrook has been much more consistent than Wade this seasonUQUOTE]

Fixed.


& my vote is
Lebron - MVP
Wade - FMVP

[dh144498]

is it even fair to give a guy the MVP while having another top 5 player in the league as his teammate?

[ripthekik]

is it even fair to give a guy the MVP while having another top 5 player in the league as his teammate?
this

[plowking]

is it even fair to give a guy the MVP while having another top 5 player in the league as his teammate?

Agreed. Dwight doesn't deserve the MVP.

[DMAVS41]

is it even fair to give a guy the MVP while having another top 5 player in the league as his teammate?

Who would you give MVP to? Paul has fallen off a little after injury...Parker will have missed way too much time.

If Lebron can't get it based on team strength...then Durant sure as hell can't get it.

The Lakers haven't won nearly enough games for Kobe to get it.

Harden? I mean...why does everyone have to make this so complicated. Lebron is clearly the best player in the league and is having an amazing season and his team is doing historical things right now.

What more do people want?

[riseagainst]

Who would you give MVP to? Paul has fallen off a little after injury...Parker will have missed way too much time.

If Lebron can't get it based on team strength...then Durant sure as hell can't get it.

The Lakers haven't won nearly enough games for Kobe to get it.

Harden? I mean...why does everyone have to make this so complicated. Lebron is clearly the best player in the league and is having an amazing season and his team is doing historical things right now.

What more do people want?

Why can't Durant get it? Westbrook <<<<<< Wade.

[DMAVS41]

Why can't Durant get it? Westbrook <<<<<< Wade.

Is it just based on the 2nd best player on the team? And for starters...I don't think Wade has been significantly better than Westbrook this year at all.

But in terms of overall help...I think Lebron and Wade play with a similar amount. And I think it would be pretty biased to say Lebron can't get it because of his help and then turn around and give it to Durant...who also plays on a loaded team.

And again. Lebron has been better than Durant and his team is performing better.

[dh144498]

Agreed. Dwight doesn't deserve the MVP.

talking about Wade and Lebron. This is like 2011 all over again, a huge reason why Rose won the MVP.

[riseagainst]

Is it just based on the 2nd best player on the team? And for starters...I don't think Wade has been significantly better than Westbrook this year at all.

But in terms of overall help...I think Lebron and Wade play with a similar amount. And I think it would be pretty biased to say Lebron can't get it because of his help and then turn around and give it to Durant...who also plays on a loaded team.

And again. Lebron has been better than Durant and his team is performing better.

how about 2011? Rose won even though Lebron was clearly better than him. And there was only a difference of 4 games won/lost between the Bulls and Heat.

[DMAVS41]

how about 2011? Rose won even though Lebron was clearly better than him. And there was only a difference of 4 games won/lost between the Bulls and Heat.

Because historically part of the criteria for winning MVP is preseason expectations.

Nobody had the Bulls winning over 60 and Rose made the leap as a player. So the narrative became...Rose leading a team with much less talent than the Heat to a better record.

Based on the history of the award, it fit...but at the same time, it was also clear that Lebron was a much better player.

This year, the Thunder and Durant aren't doing enough to trump the simple fact that everyone pretty much agrees Lebron is the best player in the game. So if Lebron is definitely the best, his team is performing better, and his team is on a historic win streak after Lebron set records for his 60% shooting etc...

I just don't see how Durant is MVP.

[Dave3]

...Forget 70 games, they won't even win 60 games ...
I won't argue any LeBron vs. ... because trolls will never change their mind about whomever they hate, but I couldn't believe you said this when I read it. You think the Heat won't win 60? You don't think they'll go at the WORST 10-8? Are you seriously that blinded by hate?

[jrong]

This.. Plenty of years prime Wade lead heat were a 40 win team. I think without lebron Bosh averages 20 but they are 45-50 win team max.. Lebron is that good and does it all for Heat. Same reason Cavs were a top team as well. He is the straw that stirs drink.

Try again. The teams you are referring to, 09 and 10, won 43 and 47 games, respectively. In 09, for most of the season, it was:

Chalmers (rookie)/ Wade/ Marion/ Haslem/ Anthony

And in 2010, it was: Arroyo/Wade/Richardson/Beasley/JO

Wade would have killed for LeBron's cast in either of those two seasons, especially 2010. There's not a Heat rotation player outside of Wade in those two seasons who would've started for those Cavs teams, most of them wouldn't get any PT, and some of them wouldn't make the team. LeBron hasn't had a team that bad since he was leading Jeff McInnes and co. to the lottery his first two years.

And you're telling me that you don't think 2013 Wade, who by most accounts has returned to at least 2011 form, couldn't take a team to more wins than that with the addition of a 2nd tier superstar, much more interior size, more perimeter shooting and defenders, and the maturation of the few players from those years who are still around, such as Chalmers.

This is why you shouldn't try to comment knowledgeably about the pre-2011 Heat when (I strongly suspect) you only started paying attention to them after that.

[Ikill]

Rose won in 2011 because he had less talent on his team but ended up winning more games. Lebron wasn't really adding anything to the Heat in the 2011 regular season with Wade on the team. They were so similar that neither of them had major value when the other was on the floor. It was just a weird situation not really a knock on Lebrons game but Rose was clearly more valuable to his team than Lebron.