Is Kobe Bryant Being Exposed?

[tazb]

Just a few days ago they beat the #1 defensive team without him. Today, nearly 5 players had a double-double and Steve Nash was back to his old self moving the ball like no other.

Earl Clark with 11 points / 8 rebounds.
Metta World Peace with 22 points / 4 assists.
Dwight Howard with 12 points / 17 rebounds / 5 blocks.
Steve Nash with 19 points / 12 assists.
Jamison with 27 points / 9 rebounds. :eek:
Steve Blake with 16 points / 8 assists / 5 rebounds.

I know it was only the Kings and it's only been two games but, damn..

[Zedja]

Sure

[mrpibb]

didnt read LOL

[no pun intended]

Kings: #29 best defensive team

[tikay0]

Yep.

[Mr. Jabbar]

read I did not

[longtime lurker]

Kings: #29 best defensive team

Lol this. Kobe goes out you'll have to find a way to replace 27 points

[Noof]

So where is the exposed part again.

[Mrofir]

You're going to get flamed for making this thread, but im sure you know that.

I'll be flamed for this response too, but I know that. Just to be clear, what I do NOT think, first.

I do not think Kobe Bryant has been exposed as a bad player.
I do not think this season erases any of the great things Kobe has accomplished in his career.

I do think that

IF Kobe continues to sit, and the Lakers continue to play cohesive team ball on the way to winning games, and

IF when Kobe returns, he jacks up too many shots and disrupts the flow of the offense, leading to Ls and an early playoff exit

Then I think to some extent Kobe will have been exposed this season for not being able to adjust to the strengths of the excellent teammates he has been surrounded with. I wouldn't expect him to make the same mistakes next season, but time will tell.

And I do think to some extent Kobe can be a selfish player, and it has probably hurt team chemistry this year.

[TheBigVeto]

Yep.

[poido123]

Which is why Kobe rushed to come back the next game. He did not want people to see an extended period of this team without him in case they started playing better and winning.

Attentionwhorebe

[longtime lurker]

You're going to get flamed for making this thread, but im sure you know that.

I'll be flamed for this response too, but I know that. Just to be clear, what I do NOT think, first.

I do not think Kobe Bryant has been exposed as a bad player.
I do not think this season erases any of the great things Kobe has accomplished in his career.

I do think that

IF Kobe continues to sit, and the Lakers continue to play cohesive team ball on the way to winning games, and

IF when Kobe returns, he jacks up too many shots and disrupts the flow of the offense, leading to Ls and an early playoff exit

Then I think to some extent Kobe will have been exposed for not being able to adjust to the strengths of the excellent teammates he has been surrounded with.

And I do think to some extent Kobe can be a selfish player, and it has probably hurt team chemistry this year.

The problem with your argument is that you're basing it on 2 games really? Two fvcking games. And second the way the Lakers play in the regular season has nothing to do with how they play in the playoffs. I don't know why people act like the Lakers were a horrible team with Kobe. If you look at their post all star break record it's actually very good, all of this with Kobe. So the only way Kobe Bryant could be exposed is if this team wins a championship without him and we all know this team will have to fight hard in the playoffs WITH him, never mind they don't have a chance for a championship without him. Last point is that that Lakers have played well since Gasol went out, but I don't see any threads saying that the Lakers are better off without him, even from alleged Kobe stans.

[tikay0]

Lol this. Kobe goes out you'll have to find a way to replace 27 points

You could get it from Dwight when he gets healthy. Which would open up the floor for guys like Nash, Metta, Kobe.

[Mrofir]

The problem with your argument is that you're basing it on 2 games really? Two fvcking games.


Read my post. There are a lot of "ifs" in there. I was cautiously agreeing that the OP might have a point IF xyz.

As for Gasol, it is simply evidence that team chemistry has been an issue all year and roles haven't coalesced the way they should. The team has played better with just one of them most of the season. They had an excellent stretch with just Gasol earlier this season as well, I'm sure you are aware.

[Ancient Legend]

The problem with your argument is that you're basing it on 2 games really? Two fvcking games. .

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)

[poido123]

You're going to get flamed for making this thread, but im sure you know that.

I'll be flamed for this response too, but I know that. Just to be clear, what I do NOT think, first.

I do not think Kobe Bryant has been exposed as a bad player.
I do not think this season erases any of the great things Kobe has accomplished in his career.

I do think that

IF Kobe continues to sit, and the Lakers continue to play cohesive team ball on the way to winning games, and

IF when Kobe returns, he jacks up too many shots and disrupts the flow of the offense, leading to Ls and an early playoff exit

Then I think to some extent Kobe will have been exposed this season for not being able to adjust to the strengths of the excellent teammates he has been surrounded with. I wouldn't expect him to make the same mistakes next season, but time will tell.

And I do think to some extent Kobe can be a selfish player, and it has probably hurt team chemistry this year.

Spot on.

Kobe fans have a hard time admitting or even considering that Kobe has more flaws than just shooting too much :rolleyes:

[tikay0]

You're going to get flamed for making this thread, but im sure you know that.

I'll be flamed for this response too, but I know that. Just to be clear, what I do NOT think, first.

I do not think Kobe Bryant has been exposed as a bad player.
I do not think this season erases any of the great things Kobe has accomplished in his career.

I do think that

IF Kobe continues to sit, and the Lakers continue to play cohesive team ball on the way to winning games, and

IF when Kobe returns, he jacks up too many shots and disrupts the flow of the offense, leading to Ls and an early playoff exit

Then I think to some extent Kobe will have been exposed this season for not being able to adjust to the strengths of the excellent teammates he has been surrounded with. I wouldn't expect him to make the same mistakes next season, but time will tell.

And I do think to some extent Kobe can be a selfish player, and it has probably hurt team chemistry this year.

Very well said.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/popcorn_2.gif

[tazb]

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)
:eek:

[lefthook00]

Kobe has played too long and accomplished too much to be "exposed".

It is what it is.

Sure the Lakers can do well without him now, but the bottom line is that they need him in the playoffs.

[KOBE143]

Come on guys, its the ****ing Kings.. With Kobe, it would had been a 30+ win blown out easily..

[longtime lurker]

Read my post. There are a lot of "ifs" in there. I was cautiously agreeing that the OP might have a point IF xyz.

As for Gasol, it is simply evidence that team chemistry has been an issue all year and roles haven't coalesced the way they should. The team has played better with just one of them most of the season. They had an excellent stretch with just Gasol earlier this season as well, I'm sure you are aware.

Well I wouldn't agree with the OP since he is a complete idiot, but as far as Gasol yes they had an excellent stretch with him and Kobe was there during that stretch so again it contradicts your argument about Kobe. Really the only way to prove your argument is to have a large stretch of games without Kobe or see how far they get in the playoffs without him to determine if your post is true.

[Mrofir]

Kobe has played too long and accomplished too much to be "exposed".

It is what it is.

Sure the Lakers can do well without him now, but the bottom line is that they need him in the playoffs.


Sure they need him to go far in the playoffs. But they need him to be a closer. And by that I don't mean that he would predictably get the ball on an iso to finish close games. He needs to be the assassin, the guy that knows when he's gotten hot and goes on a 9 point streak to end the half, or changes the momentum of the game with a three point play or a steal. He can't just be jacking up 30 shots.

He needs to conform to Mike D's offense. I'm sorry you can say whatever you want about D's defense, but his offense works and they have the guy who knows how to run it to perfection in Steve Nash. Kobe needs to study Jason Richardson's role with the Suns and be a hof version of that.

Also, appreciate earlier support.


Also in response to lurker's 2nd comment. The Lakers record with Kobe is 34-32 this season. Let's see what happens. Regarding is my post true or not, that is a confounding idea to me, since I took great steps to ensure the reader that certain criteria *MUST* be met in order for post to be relevant. I also have an open mind to these criteria not being met. Particularly I see the Lakers being dangerous if Kobe can make the adjustments to fit in with this team when he returns. If not, I think they will not go far in the playoffs, and hopefully he will figure it out in the offseason. Kobe Nash and Dwight need to play some 3v3 ball over the summer.

[longtime lurker]

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)

This is a case of where numbers lie. What was the record of teams they faced during their games without Kobe, did those teams also have injuries to key players, when during the season did they face them? To many variables to actually make a conclusion on this stat. For example the Heat had a very good win % without Dywane Wade last season, but I guarantee you without Wade stepping up in some playoff games they aren't making the finals much less winning the championship.

[MMM]

or the Lakers are rounding into their form

Kobe is a big reason for why they've turned around their season and now that he is hurt the other guys are stepping up. Guys like Nash, Jamison and Howard have shown in the past that they can score so it isn't a surprise that they can step up while Kobe is hurt.

[tazb]

Come on guys, its the ****ing Kings.. With Kobe, it would had been a 30+ win blown out easily..

Who knows? :confusedshrug: Maybe we would've seen a 30 for 30 night for Kobe.

[Mrofir]

This is a case of where numbers lie. What was the record of teams they faced during their games without Kobe, did those teams also have injuries to key players, when during the season did they face them? To many variables to actually make a conclusion on this stat. For example the Heat had a very good win % without Dywane Wade last season, but I guarantee you without Wade stepping up in some playoff games they aren't making the finals much less winning the championship.


Legend's sample size with 95 games, that's more than a full season. You can pretty much be certain they played every team in the league.

[MMM]

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)

How many of the games without KB had Shaq???
especially in his "MDE" stretch

[MMM]

Come on guys, its the ****ing Kings.. With Kobe, it would had been a 30+ win blown out easily..

iirc the Kings play the lakers pretty tight most of the time

[miller-time]

Come on guys, its the ****ing Kings.. With Kobe, it would had been a 30+ win blown out easily..

Easily?

In the last few games they managed to beat the Magic by 9, the Hornets by 6, and the Raptors by 2 (in OT). Where do you get a 30 point blow out from?

Both Magic and Hornets have worse records, and Raptors are only ahead by 4 wins.

[longtime lurker]

Legend's sample size with 95 games, that's more than a full season. You can pretty much be certain they played every team in the league.

Full season over a 17 season career. That's approximately 5.5 games a season without Kobe. Really unless you go back and document every team and every situation there's no telling the truth behind the numbers. Besides 5 or 6 games a season literally means nothing. The Heat missed Wade for more than 10 games last season and I wouldn't put any stock in those numbers while he was out.

[shady6121]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb9asoi7LW1qgcra2o1_500.gif

[SevereUpInHere]

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)


How do you find stats like these? I'd love to see them for a bunch of different players, Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, whoever.

Ewing's teams apparently had a great percentage without him :oldlol:

[MMM]

that star of with kobe/without just shows that he has been on great/good teams throughout his career. A similar stat would probably exist for a guy like Duncan as well.

[Mrofir]

Full season over a 17 season career. That's approximately 5.5 games a season without Kobe. Really unless you go back and document every team and every situation there's no telling the truth behind the numbers. Besides 5 or 6 games a season literally means nothing. The Heat missed Wade for more than 10 games last season and I wouldn't put any stock in those numbers while he was out.


You're kind of making my argument for me.

In statistics, the result becomes more meaningful when an individual factor can be held constant against a large variety of scenarios and situations.

As for the Shaq situation and any other unusual circumstances, we've all got google so we can actually look into that.

lol@popcorn gifs.

[Bernie Nips]

that star of with kobe/without just shows that he has been on great/good teams throughout his career. A similar stat would probably exist for a guy like Duncan as well.

Would love to see KG's.

[Mrofir]

Through the 2010-2011 season

Spurs record without tim duncan (regular season) - 33-25 (.569)
Spurs record with tim duncan (regular season) - 743-303 (.710)

record without tim duncan (playoffs) - 1-4 (.bad)
record with tim duncan (playoffs) - 105-63 (.625)


Someone asked so I obliged..
Source - http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/21/how-the-spurs-have-fared-with-duncan-in-and-out-of-lineup/

[sekachu]

Come on guys, its the ****ing Kings.. With Kobe, it would had been a 30+ win blown out easily..





When it has never been happened this season and you dare to say that :lol

[SevereUpInHere]

Through the 2010-2011 season

Spurs record without tim duncan (regular season) - 33-25 (.569)
Spurs record with tim duncan (regular season) - 743-303 (.710)

record without tim duncan (playoffs) - 1-4 (.bad)
record with tim duncan (playoffs) - 105-63 (.625)


Someone asked so I obliged..
Source - http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/21/how-the-spurs-have-fared-with-duncan-in-and-out-of-lineup/


Cool, cheers for that. I guess there's no easy way to look up those stats for each player.

[Ancient Legend]

Through the 2010-2011 season

Spurs record without tim duncan (regular season) - 33-25 (.569)
Spurs record with tim duncan (regular season) - 743-303 (.710)

record without tim duncan (playoffs) - 1-4 (.bad)
record with tim duncan (playoffs) - 105-63 (.625)


Someone asked so I obliged..
Source - http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/03/21/how-the-spurs-have-fared-with-duncan-in-and-out-of-lineup/


Also found this one:

LeBron James' Win Percentage with the Cavs= .618
Cavs win percentage without LeBron James while he was with them = .384 (26 Games)

And (Not counting the current season):
Miami Heat without Lebron .500 team (5-5).
Miami Heat without Dwyane Wade . 900 (9-1)

[BlueandGold]

Sure they need him to go far in the playoffs. But they need him to be a closer. And by that I don't mean that he would predictably get the ball on an iso to finish close games. He needs to be the assassin, the guy that knows when he's gotten hot and goes on a 9 point streak to end the half, or changes the momentum of the game with a three point play or a steal. He can't just be jacking up 30 shots.

He needs to conform to Mike D's offense. I'm sorry you can say whatever you want about D's defense, but his offense works and they have the guy who knows how to run it to perfection in Steve Nash. Kobe needs to study Jason Richardson's role with the Suns and be a hof version of that.

Also, appreciate earlier support.


Also in response to lurker's 2nd comment. The Lakers record with Kobe is 34-32 this season. Let's see what happens. Regarding is my post true or not, that is a confounding idea to me, since I took great steps to ensure the reader that certain criteria *MUST* be met in order for post to be relevant. I also have an open mind to these criteria not being met. Particularly I see the Lakers being dangerous if Kobe can make the adjustments to fit in with this team when he returns. If not, I think they will not go far in the playoffs, and hopefully he will figure it out in the offseason. Kobe Nash and Dwight need to play some 3v3 ball over the summer.

The is one of the most stupidest things i've seen on this site.

[chosen_one6]

The is one of the most stupidest things i've seen on this site.

Redundant.

[Mrofir]

The is one of the most stupidest things i've seen on this site.


Jason Richardson 2010 playoffs, Phoenix suns

19.8 pts on 50.2% fg, 47.5% 3pt, 5.4 rebounds, 1.1stl, 0.6 TO, 13.9FGA


Kobe in that same role

25pts, 49/39, 7 reb, 5 assist, 2 to, 18fga

What is stupid about this?

[Deuce Bigalow]

How many of the games without KB had Shaq???
especially in his "MDE" stretch
63 of the 104 games that Kobe has missed in his career were without Kobe before the 2004-05 season

Lakers are 413-254 with Kobe since 2004-05 (.619 Winning %)
Lakers are 21-20 without Kobe since 2004-05 (.512 Winning %)

[Mrofir]

63 of the 104 games that Kobe has missed in his career were without Kobe before the 2004-05 season

Lakers are 413-254 with Kobe since 2004-05 (.619 Winning %)
Lakers are 21-20 without Kobe since 2004-05 (.512 Winning %)

Well done, and definitely proof of his deserved accolades.

Might as well for good measure include his Shaq years separately as well.

Record without Kobe - 25-7
Record without Shaq - 12-11

I think though, that this thread should just pertain to this season and what the Lakers are capable of if Kobe adjusts his game to allow his teammates to thrive.

[tazb]

Also found this one:

LeBron James' Win Percentage with the Cavs= .618
Cavs win percentage without LeBron James while he was with them = .384 (26 Games)

And (Not counting the current season):
Miami Heat without Lebron .500 team (5-5).
Miami Heat without Dwyane Wade . 900 (9-1)

:eek: Nice find. .384 :facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

When he plays the all-around game, they will be tough to stop.

[poido123]

The is one of the most stupidest things i've seen on this site.

I don't expect a Laker fan to understand that concept. Playing the Jason Richardson role like he did was very important. Kobe should do the same he is 34, heading into retirement in the next few years, Kobe refuses to do that because it will take the spotlight off him. He is too selfish to play that role, he doesnt want to let the team function and play the Mike D offense the way it should unless Kobe is the focal point. Sorry Kobe but sooner or later you need to move aside and let the team get some spotlight.

This all comes back to him rushing back and trying to play the game after doing his ankle. He was so insecure, that he didn't want the team to show it can go on or play better without him.

[Mrofir]

I don't expect a Laker fan to understand that concept. Playing the Jason Richardson role like he did was very important. Kobe should do the same he is 34, heading into retirement in the next few years, Kobe refuses to do that because it will take the spotlight off him. He is too selfish to play that role, he doesnt want to let the team function and play the Mike D offense the way it should unless Kobe is the focal point. Sorry Kobe but sooner or later you need to move aside and let the team get some spotlight.

This all comes back to him rushing back and trying to play the game after doing his ankle. He was so insecure, that he didn't want the team to show it can go on or play better without him.


This, and I don't even think Kobe would have to sacrifice much of the limelight if he plays this role well. He will realize this in the offseason if he's not realizing it now. It's actually D12 who has to make the biggest sacrifice and be willing to score anywhere from 10-30 points a game and put up big rpg and play the same great defense regardless of his fga.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Well done, and definitely proof of his deserved accolades.

Might as well for good measure include his Shaq years separately as well.

Record without Kobe - 25-7
Record without Shaq - 12-11

I think though, that this thread should just pertain to this season and what the Lakers are capable of if Kobe adjusts his game to allow his teammates to thrive.
That is not the full Shaq years.

1996-97 to 2003-04 Lakers played 624 games
1996-97 to 2003-04 Kobe played 561 games

There were 63 games that the Lakers played which Kobe missed, not 32.

Lakers were 44-19.

[Mrofir]

That is not the full Shaq years.

1996-97 to 2003-04 Lakers played 624 games
1996-97 to 2003-04 Kobe played 561 games

There were 63 games that the Lakers played which Kobe missed, not 32.

Lakers were 44-19.

I'd rep you again if I could.

I am pro information. I failed to realize the stats I saw were from the title run years.

[Legends66NBA7]

If Kobe has to play a 3rd different role on this team, then I'm pretty sure he's willing to do so if it's a winning forumla.

Him and D'Antoni are close, so they can figure it out.

[SavageMode]

Kobes had all season to adjust to the D'antoni system and he still hasn't. Watch this Kobeless Laker team thrive without his Kobricking and ball hogging. Maybe they'd have a better record than 34-32 without his bricks.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I dont know what OP is trying to prove?

Look at history. Lakers went to the Finals in 91 2 years after Kareem retired. Lakers won two titles half a decade after Shaq left in 09-10. Lakers won the title in 72 the year Baylor retired. Celtics won 4 more titles in the decade after Cousy retired. Celtics won two titles in 74 and 76 when Bill Russell was long gone. 95 Bulls went 55-27 the season after MJ's first retirement. Were those players "exposed"?

[SavageMode]

I dont know what OP is trying to prove?

Look at history. Lakers went to the Finals in 91 2 years after Kareem retired. Lakers won two titles half a decade after Shaq left in 09-10. Lakers won the title in 72 the year Baylor retired. Celtics won 4 more titles in the decade after Cousy retired. Celtics won two titles in 74 and 76 when Bill Russell was long gone. 95 Bulls went 55-27 the season after MJ's first retirement. Were those players "exposed"?
He is proving this current Laker team is better without his Kobricks.

[Mrofir]

I dont know what OP is trying to prove?

Look at history. Lakers went to the Finals in 91 2 years after Kareem retired. Lakers won two titles half a decade after Shaq left in 09-10. Lakers won the title in 72 the year Baylor retired. Celtics won 4 more titles in the decade after Cousy retired. Celtics won two titles in 74 and 76 when Bill Russell was long gone. 95 Bulls went 55-27 the season after MJ's first retirement. Were those players "exposed"?


The OP probably has an agenda -- any conclusions drawn that extend beyond this season are null.

But there is an interesting discussion to be had about what role kobe should play on this team in order for them to be most effective. And it doesn't seem that LA has figured that out yet.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He is proving this current Laker team is better without his Kobricks.
Didnt the Clippers win 4 games in a row during a stretch without CP3? Didnt the Heat last year go something like 13-1 without Wade? They're better without them? Lets see what happens to the Lakers without Kobe when they are not shooting 46% from 3 (25/54 the last 2 games).

[coin24]

I think the OP is being exposed as a no life, hating f@ggot...
Stick to watching the Miami Lebrons, seeing as you dont actually support a team :facepalm

[SavageMode]

Didnt the Clippers win 4 games in a row during a stretch without CP3? Didnt the Heat last year go something like 13-1 without Wade? They're better without them? Lets see what happens to the Lakers without Kobe when they are not shooting 46% from 3 (25/54 the last 2 games).
You're missing the point. The team plays more fluidly and more players are getting touches. The ball movement is a lot better. Look at the stat sheet tonight. Everyone lighting it up. Kobe needs to adjust his game. Kobe-system is a fail that can only lead them to .500%

[Legends66NBA7]

The OP probably has an agenda -- any conclusions drawn that extend beyond this season are null.

But there is an interesting discussion to be had about what role kobe should play on this team in order for them to be most effective. And it doesn't seem that LA has figured that out yet.

It's either going to be:

1) Primary ball-handler/ISO scorer (most freedom)
2) All-around play (commit more to tough defensive assignments/rebounding)
3) Spot up and drive scorer (J-Rich role)

Whichever it is, Bryant will play it since he and D'Antoni are at a mutual understanding with each other and they have all roles have been effective to a certain extent, at least individually speaking. Team wise, it's still yet to be determined which one can squeeze most wins now and come playoff time, if they get there first.

[coin24]

You're missing the point. The team plays more fluidly and more players are getting touches. The ball movement is a lot better. Look at the stat sheet tonight. Everyone lighting it up. Kobe needs to adjust his game. Kobe-system is a fail that can only lead them to .500%



Against the KINGS:lol
Kobe-less Lakers will get swept in the playoffs....

[IamRAMBO24]

Which is why Kobe rushed to come back the next game. He did not want people to see an extended period of this team without him in case they started playing better and winning.

Attentionwhorebe

This.

It's so pathetic how hard he is trying to come back. The team doesn't need him and he knows it, but he acts like they can't do anything without him. Sure it is only 2 games; and sure they will need him in the playoffs if they want to get pass the 1st round, but all along he has been underestimating his teammates.

Kobe is a horrible leader. He needs to sit his a*s down, get his rest, and see how this all plays out. The team simply does not need him right now and his contributions are way over inflated.

[DMAVS41]

Yep.

A 2 game sample is enough to expose Kobe as the problem.

[andremiller07]

The Lakers beat the Kings WITHOUT the Kings best player and the only one who could compete with Dwight......no hes not being exposed, theres a reason why out of the 3 games the Kings/Lakers have played the only one that the Kings won Cousins played in.

This nonsense of teams being better without certain players is really getting to new heights of just crap.

[oh the horror]

Collective IQ around here plummeting to fantastic lows.

[LBJFTW]

This.

It's so pathetic how hard he is trying to come back. The team doesn't need him and he knows it, but he acts like they can't do anything without him. Sure it is only 2 games; and sure they will need him in the playoffs if they want to get pass the 1st round, but all along he has been underestimating his teammates.

Kobe is a horrible leader. He needs to sit his a*s down, get his rest, and see how this all plays out. The team simply does not need him right now and his contributions are way over inflated.

Yes indeed. And what's not surprising is that it would be no different after 5, 10, or 15+ games. Sit the **** down already and let Nash figure it out.

[niko]

A 2 day sample doesn't outweigh years. Some of you are insane.

[SwayDizzle]

Yes Kobe is being exposed, but not in a way we haven't seen before. Does his style impact team chemistry?....YES. Is he the best player on the team?...YES.

[CarlosBoozer]

Collective IQ around here plummeting to fantastic lows.
:lol

[longtime lurker]

Also found this one:

LeBron James' Win Percentage with the Cavs= .618
Cavs win percentage without LeBron James while he was with them = .384 (26 Games)

And (Not counting the current season):
Miami Heat without Lebron .500 team (5-5).
Miami Heat without Dwyane Wade . 900 (9-1)

That settles it, Dwyane Wade is a cancer to the Miami Heat. OMG just look at the 10 game sample!

[longtime lurker]

63 of the 104 games that Kobe has missed in his career were without Kobe before the 2004-05 season

Lakers are 413-254 with Kobe since 2004-05 (.619 Winning %)
Lakers are 21-20 without Kobe since 2004-05 (.512 Winning %)

Didn't this post just shut the sh!t down on this stupid thread?

[Joey3000]

U know whats funny? People are saying the kings are a bad team so this is nothing big.

But when Kobe was barley leading the lakers past Bad teams people were saying:

"Since the allstar break, Kobe has been the best player in the league and it isnt even close"

:oldlol:

If Kobe was playing and he went 12/36 for 30 point TO BEAT THE KINGS people would be like:

"THE MAMBA STRIKES AGAIN!!!!" :coleman:

[f0und]

ive said this many times before.

all season, except for lately, they've sucked.

was it the coach? they fired and brought in a new one. still sucked.

was it nash's injury? with or without him, they still sucked.

was it pau? with or without him, they still sucked.

was it dwight? with him, with him injured, or completely without him, they still sucked.

is it kobe? with him they've sucked. without him, they're not bad.



one of these things doesnt follow the pattern of the rest. can you guess which one it is?

[Lone Laker]

D'Antoni was reduced to a seven man roster last night; if he has to continue with that, The Lakers will soon be running on fumes, Kobe or no Kobe...

[KOBE143]

Easily?

In the last few games they managed to beat the Magic by 9, the Hornets by 6, and the Raptors by 2 (in OT). Where do you get a 30 point blow out from?

Both Magic and Hornets have worse records, and Raptors are only ahead by 4 wins.
When they played against those shitty team, the Lakers were playing their worst game of the season while the opponents were playing their best game of the season and yet the Lakers still won becos of Kobe.. You probably knew it if you watch the game not the boxscore..

In the games against the Sacramento without Kobe, the Kings were playing horrible while the Lakers were playing one of their season best and only manage to win the games by 11 points.. Now imagine with healthy Kobe in that line up playing one of their best season game.. A 30+ blown out is pretty realistic and accurate dude..

[I<3NBA]

the only thing i would say was that the only thing constant when LA was below .500 was Kobe. Kobe get injured and they're now above .500

this doesn't confirm anything. so we have to wait for Kobe to come back and make the team lose again.

[Joey3000]

When they played against those shitty team, the Lakers were playing their worst game of the season while the opponents were playing their best game of the season and yet the Lakers still won becos of Kobe.. You probably knew it if you watch the game not the boxscore..

In the games against the Sacramento without Kobe, the Kings were playing horrible while the Lakers were playing one of their season best and only manage to win the games by 11 points.. Now imagine with healthy Kobe in that line up playing one of their best season game.. A 30+ blown out is pretty realistic and accurate dude..

:oldlol:

[Bandito]

the only thing i would say was that the only thing constant when LA was below .500 was Kobe. Kobe get injured and they're now above .500

this doesn't confirm anything. so we have to wait for Kobe to come back and make the team lose again.
Every year you see Kobe haters saying the same thing because ironically when Kobe goes down they win a couple if games. But the funny thing is when he comes back the keep winning.:facepalm

I remember in 09 or 10 Kobe went down for a couple of games and hater were talking all kinds of crap when the team was winning. (Just imagine a replica of this thread but worse) and when Kobe went back the lost like 2 games and went on a couple of 7-0 runs to finish the season.

If Lebron went down the team wouldn't suffer as much if Wade and Bosh are there because they can play well together. Does that mean Lebron is not needed heck no. He is needed but the team is built so they don't depend sorely on him. That happened last year when Wade went down for 10 games. If they didn't have him for the finals or against the pacers they couldn't won both series.

[G-Funk]

The OP probably has an agenda -- any conclusions drawn that extend beyond this season are null.

But there is an interesting discussion to be had about what role kobe should play on this team in order for them to be most effective. And it doesn't seem that LA has figured that out yet.
dafuq u talking about? Kobe has figured it out, they have one of the best records in the NBA since the all-star game. Instead of trying to put doubt on a proven 5x champ whos putting up 28/6/5 48% talk about the assholes who remain ringless, like Dantoni's horrible offense and lack of defense. or Dwights terrible defense this yr?troll

[IamRAMBO24]

Every year you see Kobe haters saying the same thing because ironically when Kobe goes down they win a couple if games. But the funny thing is when he comes back the keep winning.:facepalm

I remember in 09 or 10 Kobe went down for a couple of games and hater were talking all kinds of crap when the team was winning. (Just imagine a replica of this thread but worse) and when Kobe went back the lost like 2 games and went on a couple of 7-0 runs to finish the season.

If Lebron went down the team wouldn't suffer as much if Wade and Bosh are there because they can play well together. Does that mean Lebron is not needed heck no. He is needed but the team is built so they don't depend sorely on him. That happened last year when Wade went down for 10 games. If they didn't have him for the finals or against the pacers they couldn't won both series.

I am more of a Kobe fan than a hater. I think Kobe is a great talent and one of the greatest of all time, but times are changing, and players are evolving to a different style of play. The whole do it all on your own might of worked great about a decade ago, but nowadays, a star player needs to develope great chemistry with his teammates. As great as a player he is, he's always had this problem since he is a social hermit.

[lebeast666]

Yes. There is no reason for Lakers to have the record they have right now. Most of the blame goes on Chuckbe.

[gengiskhan]

Yes. There is no reason for Lakers to have the record they have right now. Most of the blame goes on Chuckbe.

This.

Kobe cannot go easy on chucking in 1st half.

Kobe aint interested in picking easy assist by encouraging D-12 to score in 1st half.

Kobe cannot get the LAL offense going.

This is the real problem

Every game kobe plays with 20+ pts mid way into 4th quarter, You always see Lakers trailing the opponents 10-12 pts with D-12, Nash, MWP in single digits.

If kobe can ave 18 ppg & look for 8 apg average, LAL will be Top 3 in the West.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

No Kobe no problems.

Nash had 12 assists and didn't have 9 turn overs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

No Kobe no problems.

Nash had 12 assists and didn't have 9 turn covers.


To be fair I doubt Steve Nash knows what a turn cover is..

[HorryIsMyMVP]

To be fair I doubt Steve Nash knows what a turn cover is..
Auto fill sucks balls. But still Nash is clearly a better PG then Kobe was.

[longtime lurker]

To be fair I doubt Steve Nash knows what a turn cover is..

lmao well played

[dh144498]

When they played against those shitty team, the Lakers were playing their worst game of the season while the opponents were playing their best game of the season and yet the Lakers still won becos of Kobe.. You probably knew it if you watch the game not the boxscore..

In the games against the Sacramento without Kobe, the Kings were playing horrible while the Lakers were playing one of their season best and only manage to win the games by 11 points.. Now imagine with healthy Kobe in that line up playing one of their best season game.. A 30+ blown out is pretty realistic and accurate dude..

:applause:
I wish I can rep you. :(

[lebeast666]

When they played against those shitty team, the Lakers were playing their worst game of the season while the opponents were playing their best game of the season and yet the Lakers still won becos of Kobe.. You probably knew it if you watch the game not the boxscore..

In the games against the Sacramento without Kobe, the Kings were playing horrible while the Lakers were playing one of their season best and only manage to win the games by 11 points.. Now imagine with healthy Kobe in that line up playing one of their best season game.. A 30+ blown out is pretty realistic and accurate dude..

How about I imagine Kobe starting 1/6fg, ruining the flow of the offense, and still chucking away to another L. That sounds pretty realistic.

Whereas last night I seen one of the best offense played by the Lakers all season.

[Shih508]

63 of the 104 games that Kobe has missed in his career were without Kobe before the 2004-05 season

Lakers are 413-254 with Kobe since 2004-05 (.619 Winning %)
Lakers are 21-20 without Kobe since 2004-05 (.512 Winning %)

Anyone can pull out the winning % without Kobe exclude 2004-05, which was the year Lakers gave up on their playoff hopes long before season was over.

I bet the winning % will be very similar for Lakers with or without Kobe.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

lmao well played
Well yeah because beyond the typo he had no response.

[Mrofir]

dafuq u talking about? Kobe has figured it out, they have one of the best records in the NBA since the all-star game. Instead of trying to put doubt on a proven 5x champ whos putting up 28/6/5 48% talk about the assholes who remain ringless, like Dantoni's horrible offense and lack of defense. or Dwights terrible defense this yr?troll


Go back, and read my posts. You can feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not a troll. I justify my opinions. I'm not trying to "put doubt on a proven 5x champ" -- I'm just making some reasonable observations about THIS season.

I have considerable respect for Kobe and I've made that clear many times on this board and in this thread.

I don't even... just read what I already wrote. :facepalm

[tazb]

Yes Kobe is being exposed, but not in a way we haven't seen before. Does his style impact team chemistry?....YES. Is he the best player on the team?...YES.

This is one of the main reasons the Lakers suck and will not make it far in the playoffs (if they make it). :confusedshrug: Kobe needs to do what Wade did and that is, take a seat back to best player on your team - Dwight (Wade - LeBron). As someone said earlier in this thread he needs to just let Nash run the offense and become a spot-up shooter.

[diamenz]

i agree. kobe exposed. same would happen with lebron.

not michael tho.

[LA_Showtime]

All this proves is that this team will only go as far as Dwight takes them. Kobe may still be the best player on the Lakers, but Dwight is easily the most important player. He's the only guy in the league capable of masking the Lakers' complete inability to play any semblance of defense.

[G-Funk]

Go back, and read my posts. You can feel free to disagree with me, but I'm not a troll. I justify my opinions. I'm not trying to "put doubt on a proven 5x champ" -- I'm just making some reasonable observations about THIS season.

I have considerable respect for Kobe and I've made that clear many times on this board and in this thread.

I don't even... just read what I already wrote. :facepalm



Well read my point, Kobe has been doing the same ol' thing that took him to 7 Finals, his game is fine. The only discussion to be had is the ****ed up coaching job Dantoni has done, and Dwight's lack of defensive presence and that terrible bench.



luckily it seems the Lakers HAVE figured something, seems like Dantoni has slowed down the offense to half four, Dwight has been coming around defensively and the bench is playing great for them.

[G-Funk]

This is one of the main reasons the Lakers suck and will not make it far in the playoffs (if they make it). :confusedshrug: Kobe needs to do what Wade did and that is, take a seat back to best player on your team - Dwight (Wade - LeBron). As someone said earlier in this thread he needs to just let Nash run the offense and become a spot-up shooter.


Wade would have won MVP if it wasn't for that poor excuse of a choke job by Lebron

[scm5]

Yes,

Because without Kobe, Artest would score 22ppg on 77% FG (10/13), Jamison would score 27ppg on 57% FG, Blake would average 16ppg on 55% FG.

Also, the Lakers would score collectively, 113ppg on 57% FG and 43% from 3.

It was Kobe holding them back the entire time!

[9erempiree]

He's being exposed as a great leader and coach for those that doubted him as a leader.

So far when Kobe's hurt and coaching the Lakers have played well.

I hope he gets more exposure as a great coach that he is.

[White Mamba]

Kobe Bryant's Regular Season Win Percentage = .662
Lakers Win Percentage Without Kobe Bryant = .604 (95 games)
funny coming with a poster with an MJ avatar:rolleyes:

[White Mamba]

i agree. kobe exposed. same would happen with lebron.

not michael tho. really? how old are you?

[coin24]

Wade would have won MVP if it wasn't for that poor excuse of a choke job by Lebron

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[coin24]

This is one of the main reasons the Lakers suck and will not make it far in the playoffs (if they make it). :confusedshrug: Kobe needs to do what Wade did and that is, take a seat back to best player on your team - Dwight (Wade - LeBron). As someone said earlier in this thread he needs to just let Nash run the offense and become a spot-up shooter.

:roll: :roll:

Dwight the best player?:lol good one f@ggot..
Certainly not on offense. You should really get a life, stop worrying about the lakers who you supposedly hate yet post about all day long...

[White Mamba]

All this proves is that this team will only go as far as Dwight takes them. Kobe may still be the best player on the Lakers, but Dwight is easily the most important player. He's the only guy in the league capable of masking the Lakers' complete inability to play any semblance of defense.
That doesn't prove shit.

a team that build to win the title must be able to win games without their best player.

The lakers won on the Road this year without D!2 so that also proves they will only go as far as D!@ takes them? NO.

they need Both Kobe and D12 healthy to win.

those thread are 50 years old I swear.

Kobe led teams always won games without Kobe, MJ led teams always won games without MJ, if anything it proves how great they are.

[MVBallin2K]

If anything, I think this stretch out will help Kobe more than anything. If you remember last season when he got hurt, he came back with a seemingly new found trust in his teammates. Being on the sidelines watching, you see things that you wouldn't normally while playing. I think this will help Kobe trust his teammates more. They were already playing better before he went down but this could open his eyes more.

I could be wrong but he has been able to play a style where he shot less and deferred the ball more. With Dwight being more healthy lately and not turning over the ball as much, it could work out well. Jaimeson, Nash, MWP and even Blake aren't going to have games like that every game, especially in the playoffs where you play the same team every time. This is why you need as many options as you can and where Kobe comes in handy if he can fit into the flow of the offense. Same as Pau. The more weapons the better.

[White Mamba]

the lakers won 17 of 24 before 2 games ago, Whatever Kobe did, it worked.

[MaxFly]

ive said this many times before.

all season, except for lately, they've sucked.

was it the coach? they fired and brought in a new one. still sucked.

was it nash's injury? with or without him, they still sucked.

was it pau? with or without him, they still sucked.

was it dwight? with him, with him injured, or completely without him, they still sucked.

is it kobe? with him they've sucked. without him, they're not bad.



one of these things doesnt follow the pattern of the rest. can you guess which one it is?

What's the Lakers record since the All-Star break with Bryant in the lineup?

[MaxFly]

the only thing i would say was that the only thing constant when LA was below .500 was Kobe. Kobe get injured and they're now above .500

this doesn't confirm anything. so we have to wait for Kobe to come back and make the team lose again.

They were also consistently under .500 with Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol and Steve Nash. :confusedshrug:

[usa hoops]

The Lakers went 17-7 WITH KOBE after they begun 17-25.

So now they're 2-0 without Kobe, one win coming against Sacramento.

Yea, he is exposed. Give me a break.

Unless they Lakers are lying at interviews, they've all said that they needed time to gel. That and Dwight Howard is getting healthier from his back injury.

I think it's D'Antoni who was exposed. The guy has done a horrible job managing his roster.

[NLZ]

this thread doesn't even make sense, did you expect their production to drop by 27 ppg? Guess Miami is better without LeBron, Wade averages 27-30 career without LeBron.... LeBron being exposed (sarcasm). What's with all these threads?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Well, since Kobe has been w/ the Lakers, they've won a higher % of games without him in the lineup.

I think we all know that this team goes as far as Dwight carries them (just like Shaq did in the early 2000's).

[Heavincent]

I think we all know that this team goes as far as Dwight carries them (just like Shaq did in the early 2000's).

What? Dwight's obviously not the best player on the team.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What? Dwight's obviously not the best player on the team.

He has the most IMPACT though. When right, Dwight is the best Center in the league - and the fact is, he's been "right" the second half the season.

[Whoah10115]

He has the most IMPACT though. When right, Dwight is the best Center in the league - and the fact is, he's been "right" the second half the season.



I think you enjoy instigating the Kobe stuff.

[Heavincent]

He has the most IMPACT though. When right, Dwight is the best Center in the league. The fact is he's been "right" the second half the season.

Kobe is far superior offensively. It's not even close. He scores way more on better efficiency and he can create his own shot (doesn't have to be spoon fed like Howard).

Howard is better defensively, but he's overrated in that regard. KG and Duncan are still superior defenders.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Howard is better defensively

Dwight is far superior defensively. And a far superior rebounder. Not just "better" either. At this stage of their careers, no way is Duncan better.

I would have agreed w/ you pre February, but Dwight has turned it around (on both ends).

[G-Funk]

What's the Lakers record since the All-Star break with Bryant in the lineup?

9-3


19-7 since Jan 25.

[G-Funk]

Dwight is far superior defensively. And a far superior rebounder. Not just "better" either. At this stage of their careers, no way is Duncan better.

I would have agreed w/ you pre February, but Dwight has turned it around (on both ends).

Offensively he's the same . but loving his D, just what the doctor ordered.

[Rysio]

yes, exposed for being the best part time coach in nba history. :applause:

[NumberSix]

Kobe Bryant

[G-Funk]

yes, exposed for being the best part time coach in nba history. :applause:
:bowdown:

[Whoah10115]

Howard is better defensively, but he's overrated in that regard. KG and Duncan are still superior defenders.


No.

[NLZ]

you lose credibility when you start saying things such as "Dwight is a far superior rebounder than Kobe" like it's relevant at all. McGee is a "far better rebounder" than Kobe, McGee da bezt?

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Just a few days ago they beat the #1 defensive team without him. Today, nearly 5 players had a double-double and Steve Nash was back to his old self moving the ball like no other.

Earl Clark with 11 points / 8 rebounds.
Metta World Peace with 22 points / 4 assists.
Dwight Howard with 12 points / 17 rebounds / 5 blocks.
Steve Nash with 19 points / 12 assists.
Jamison with 27 points / 9 rebounds. :eek:
Steve Blake with 16 points / 8 assists / 5 rebounds.

I know it was only the Kings and it's only been two games but, damn..
Lakers were 7-2 since the All-Star break before Kobe went down.

[Legends66NBA7]

I don't understand how some are saying Howard is the best player now, when he hasn't even been the best player the last 2 games. The best player the last 2 games have been coming off the bench, which is really even more surprising.

[LBJFTW]

yes, exposed for being the best part time coach in nba history. :applause:

I laughed.:oldlol:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

I don't expect a Laker fan to understand that concept. Playing the Jason Richardson role like he did was very important. Kobe should do the same he is 34, heading into retirement in the next few years, Kobe refuses to do that because it will take the spotlight off him. He is too selfish to play that role, he doesnt want to let the team function and play the Mike D offense the way it should unless Kobe is the focal point. Sorry Kobe but sooner or later you need to move aside and let the team get some spotlight.

This all comes back to him rushing back and trying to play the game after doing his ankle. He was so insecure, that he didn't want the team to show it can go on or play better without him.
:lol You need to check the standings homeboy. Kobe tried playing because they were facing the second best team in the Eastern conference and the Lakers are a borderline Play-off team. you got quite an imagination. I mean do any of you people in this thread really believe the Lakers have a better shot at a championship without Kobe fcking Bryant, one of the top ten players of all-time? Just seems like some of you morons think the Lakers were playing horrible basketball before Kobe went down with the ankle injury.:confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

you lose credibility when you start saying things such as "Dwight is a far superior rebounder than Kobe" like it's relevant at all.

Rebounding isn't relevant? :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Rebounding isn't relevant? :oldlol:


Kobe Bryant is a better 3pt shooter than Dwight Howard.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Rebounding isn't relevant? :oldlol:
You not knowing what he meant :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You not knowing what he meant :lol

I know what he meant. It was a stupid analogy is all.

Kobe takes more shots than Dwight; of course he's a better scorer! :pimp:

[poido123]

:lol You need to check the standings homeboy. Kobe tried playing because they were facing the second best team in the Eastern conference and the Lakers are a borderline Play-off team. you got quite an imagination. I mean do any of you people in this thread really believe the Lakers have a better shot at a championship without Kobe fcking Bryant, one of the top ten players of all-time? Just seems like some of you morons think the Lakers were playing horrible basketball before Kobe went down with the ankle injury.:confusedshrug:

By horrible basketball, are you referring to post all star break or pre all star break? This version of the Lakers is much better, players are passing Nash is running the show and team is winning. Kobe is needed sure, should he be dominating the ball or chucking up too many shots? No. Should he be hitting the open shots and playing harder defense? Yes. That is what Lakers need the most, the last few games have proven that they dont need to rely on Kobe's offense. Good ball movement and allowing Nash to create more will only lead to better things.

[chosen_one6]

Kobe Bryant is a better 3pt shooter than Dwight Howard.

you lose credibility when you start saying things such as "Kobe is a far superior 3pt shooter than Dwight" like it's relevant at all. Felton is a "far better 3pt shooter" than Dwight, Felton da bezt?

:roll:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

you lose credibility when you start saying things such as "Kobe is a far superior 3pt shooter than Dwight" like it's relevant at all. Felton is a "far better 3pt shooter" than Dwight, Felton da bezt?

:roll:
You lost credibility when you signed up for an account June 2012. Go heat tho:cheers:

btw you do realize when he said kobe was a better rebounder than dwight, he was just trying to prove a point, right?

[CeltsGarlic]

Kobe is one of the best players ever and some of you think this stretch 1 game proves that he "sucks" .

Not cool.

[poido123]

Kobe is one of the best players ever and some of you think this stretch 1 game proves that he "sucks" .

Not cool.

I doubt anyone thinks he sucks. I dont doubt that they think Kobe can adjust alot more than he is willing to. This team would go much better if Kobe adjusted his game more to suit his teammates.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

I doubt anyone thinks he sucks. I dont doubt that they think Kobe can adjust alot more than he is willing to. This team would go much better if Kobe adjusted his game more to suit his teammates.
He's been adjusting his game all season, what the fck are you talking about? Do you have league pass? Jesus christ, it's like this Ausie kid hasn't watched a Lakers game in 2 or 3 years.

[NumberSix]

Rebounding isn't relevant? :oldlol:
No, it isn't. Duh.. Basketball=shooting

[9erempiree]

Exposed as a great coach that can lead his team without playing.

I've noticed him drawing up plays for Dwight. Coaching Metta and teaching Meeks how to play his position.

He was also teaching Nash where to pass the ball to the open spots.

[Joey3000]

Kobe is still the best one on one player on the lakers... tobad this isnt a one on one sport.

[schism206]

I think it's probably pretty similar to Rondo being out for the Celtics. Everything opens up a bit for the other guys, less pressure to "fit in" to Kobe's playing style and need for controlling the ball most of the time. So more team basketball is being played and they are playing looser.

That can work for a while, as the Celts have shown, but once the playoffs start, I'm sure you're going to see why Rondo is missed. Depending on how long Kobe goes out, I'd say the same. I bet the Lakers will play pretty decent ball and pick up a good amount of wins. Even if Kobe was to miss the entire rest of the season I feel confident the Lakers would make the playoffs. They just need Kobe healthy if they want to make any noise in the playoffs.

[Mrofir]

I think it's probably pretty similar to Rondo being out for the Celtics. Everything opens up a bit for the other guys, less pressure to "fit in" to Kobe's playing style and need for controlling the ball most of the time. So more team basketball is being played and they are playing looser.

That can work for a while, as the Celts have shown, but once the playoffs start, I'm sure you're going to see why Rondo is missed. Depending on how long Kobe goes out, I'd say the same. I bet the Lakers will play pretty decent ball and pick up a good amount of wins. Even if Kobe was to miss the entire rest of the season I feel confident the Lakers would make the playoffs. They just need Kobe healthy if they want to make any noise in the playoffs.


They need the best of both worlds. Kobe, and the looser team ball concept, to go deep into the playoffs.

[Djahjaga]

You're going to get flamed for making this thread, but im sure you know that.

I'll be flamed for this response too, but I know that. Just to be clear, what I do NOT think, first.

I do not think Kobe Bryant has been exposed as a bad player.
I do not think this season erases any of the great things Kobe has accomplished in his career.

I do think that

IF Kobe continues to sit, and the Lakers continue to play cohesive team ball on the way to winning games, and

IF when Kobe returns, he jacks up too many shots and disrupts the flow of the offense, leading to Ls and an early playoff exit

Then I think to some extent Kobe will have been exposed this season for not being able to adjust to the strengths of the excellent teammates he has been surrounded with. I wouldn't expect him to make the same mistakes next season, but time will tell.

And I do think to some extent Kobe can be a selfish player, and it has probably hurt team chemistry this year.

Very well and very cautiously said.


The problem with your argument is that you're basing it on 2 games really? Two fvcking games. And second the way the Lakers play in the regular season has nothing to do with how they play in the playoffs. I don't know why people act like the Lakers were a horrible team with Kobe. If you look at their post all star break record it's actually very good, all of this with Kobe. So the only way Kobe Bryant could be exposed is if this team wins a championship without him and we all know this team will have to fight hard in the playoffs WITH him, never mind they don't have a chance for a championship without him. Last point is that that Lakers have played well since Gasol went out, but I don't see any threads saying that the Lakers are better off without him, even from alleged Kobe stans.

Did you read his post?

[HorryIsMyMVP]

Did I just read some one credit Kobe for teaching Nash how to pass?:banghead:

[Joey3000]

Did I just read some one credit Kobe for teaching Nash how to pass?:banghead:


LOL where? quote it for us. I gotta see this. :biggums:

[usa hoops]

He was also teaching Nash where to pass the ball to the open spots.

someone asked for this quote.

[LakersFan626]

Kobes had all season to adjust to the D'antoni system and he still hasn't. Watch this Kobeless Laker team thrive without his Kobricking and ball hogging. Maybe they'd have a better record than 34-32 without his bricks.

They struggled to put away the Kings without him and almost lost at times. This won't work in the playoffs, as D'Antoni ball won't work in the playoffs and Nash isn't a go-to guy anymore, Dwight's inconsistent, and Metta, Jamison, and Meeks aren't that efficient.

[diamenz]

really? how old are you?

old enough to fool you into thinking i was serious :D

just jokes man.

[24r2]

OP is exposed as a ****ing ******

[DatAsh]

Kobe is far superior offensively. It's not even close. He scores way more on better efficiency and he can create his own shot (doesn't have to be spoon fed like Howard).

Howard is better defensively, but he's overrated in that regard. KG and Duncan are still superior defenders.

Not that I agree with the guy you're arguing with(I agree with you), but it's a bit misleading to state Kobe as "far superior offensively", and at the same time not do the same for Howard when referring to defense. The difference between the two defensively is greater than the difference between the two offensively.

[DatAsh]

I don't understand how some are saying Howard is the best player now, when he hasn't even been the best player the last 2 games. The best player the last 2 games have been coming off the bench, which is really even more surprising.

I wouldn't even say he has the most impact. They'd be much worse off without Kobe than they would be without Dwight imo.

[Heavincent]

Not that I agree with the guy you're arguing with(I agree with you), but it's a bit misleading to state Kobe as "far superior offensively", and at the same time not do the same for Howard when referring to defense. The difference between the two defensively is greater than the difference between the two offensively.

That's where I disagree. Kobe just does so much more for the Lakers offense. He can actually create his own shot, he's more efficient, and he creates for others. Like I said, most of Howard's points are from being spoon fed by Nash and Kobe and getting offensive rebounds. Did I mention the fact that he's one of the worst FT shooters in NBA history? And how he has an absurd turnover rate for a big man? Kobe is just infinitely superior on offense. Period.

I know the effort hasn't always been there for Kobe on defense (conserving energy), but he really is a pretty good defender when he's locked in. Dwight obviously has more impact on defense, but Kobe isn't bad. Certainly not as bad as some people on ISH would have you believe. You don't see teams going at him over and over again (like teams do to guys such as Kevin Martin). The worst part about his defense is that he loses his man because he's playing passing lanes and sometimes he doesn't close out very well. He's still a good on-ball defender.

[Mrofir]

They struggled to put away the Kings without him and almost lost at times. This won't work in the playoffs, as D'Antoni ball won't work in the playoffs and Nash isn't a go-to guy anymore, Dwight's inconsistent, and Metta, Jamison, and Meeks aren't that efficient.


If you don't think D'antoni ball works in the playoffs, take a look at the Phx playoff runs in 2004-05 for starters. the 05 Spurs were playing some of the best defense the league has ever seen, and they could not stop that suns offense. Suns lost that series because they couldn't get a rebound when it mattered. The Suns defense was actually good enough in terms of contesting shots - the Spurs didn't shoot too high fg% - they just got more shots at the rim due to Oreb. That, and the short rotation created situations where the Spurs could have a surge of energy at the end of the game when the Suns were spent. Same story every time. The offense works, though.

[knicksman]

I think it's probably pretty similar to Rondo being out for the Celtics. Everything opens up a bit for the other guys, less pressure to "fit in" to Kobe's playing style and need for controlling the ball most of the time. So more team basketball is being played and they are playing looser.

That can work for a while, as the Celts have shown, but once the playoffs start, I'm sure you're going to see why Rondo is missed. Depending on how long Kobe goes out, I'd say the same. I bet the Lakers will play pretty decent ball and pick up a good amount of wins. Even if Kobe was to miss the entire rest of the season I feel confident the Lakers would make the playoffs. They just need Kobe healthy if they want to make any noise in the playoffs.

yup thats why celtics won with a nobody rondo and 6th man kobe.

[knicksman]

What's the Lakers record since the All-Star break with Bryant in the lineup?

is kobe still chucking like he did at the start of the season?

[DatAsh]

That's where I disagree. Kobe just does so much more for the Lakers offense. He can actually create his own shot, he's more efficient, and he creates for others. Like I said, most of Howard's points are from being spoon fed by Nash and Kobe and getting offensive rebounds. Did I mention the fact that he's one of the worst FT shooters in NBA history? And how he has an absurd turnover rate for a big man? Kobe is just infinitely superior on offense. Period.


I don't disagree with this at all, Dwight's a good offensive player, especially for a big man, but he's not great. Kobe on the other hand is one of the best offensive players in the league. He's clearly the Lakers' best offensive player, as well as their best player overall. Maybe you misunderstood me.


I know the effort hasn't always been there for Kobe on defense (conserving energy), but he really is a pretty good defender when he's locked in.


Maybe that's a sign that he'll turn it up in the playoffs, but it's been much too few and far between at this point for that to really matter.


Dwight obviously has more impact on defense, but Kobe isn't bad. Certainly not as bad as some people on ISH would have you believe. You don't see teams going at him over and over again (like teams do to guys such as Kevin Martin).

I wouldn't hesitate at all to call Kobe a bad defender this year, and that's probably being a bit generous. He's definitely not average, though I guess you could call him below average. Of all of the team's that I consistently watch, he's the worst starting SG by a pretty decent margin.

He looks decent in comparison with his own team, but that's because the Lakers are filled with subpar defenders.


The worst part about his defense is that he loses his man because he's playing passing lanes and sometimes he doesn't close out very well. He's still a good on-ball defender.

I've seen 10 or so very good on ball sequences from him this year, but that's a minute fraction of his overall time on the court. He's been a very lazy off ball defender, and as a result, he's one of the easiest SGs in the league to beat off screens. He's also been terrible with rotating and helping when someone else gets beat. He usually just stands there and watches.

Kobe's offense means more to the Lakers than Dwight's defense. He's really been their only consistently great player on that end of the floor, and while Dwight is probably their second most important player, they'd be a lot worse off without Kobe than they would be without Dwight.

But, Dwight is a better offensive player than Kobe is a defensive player, that I'm sure of, and that's why I say there's a bigger gap between the two defensively.

[MaxFly]

is kobe still chucking like he did at the start of the season?

Hmmm... Good question. I want to see if you'll respond to what I'm about to post, or whether you'll slink out of this thread and not respond.

Since the All-Star break, Bryant has played 12 full games, averaging 30.3/6.4/7 with 49.2% shooting on 21.3 shots.

To start the season, taking the first 15 games, Bryant averaged 27.7/5.3/4.9 with 50.2% shooting on 18.3 shots.

What you seem to be implying is that he hasn't been chucking of late with his 21.3 shots on 49% shooting, but that he started the season chucking with his 18.3 shots on 50.2% shooting. Am I understanding you correctly? :confusedshrug:

[schism206]

yup thats why celtics won with a nobody rondo and 6th man kobe.
:facepalm
Yeah Kobe had nothing to do at all with the 3 peat or the last 2 laker titles, and Rondo had nothing to do with getting the C's back to the finals, or taking the Heat to 7 games last year (which everyone knows that had no business doing). I'm not a huge Rondo fan, or Kobe for that matter, but not having them in the playoffs is a disadvantage for both teams.

[coin24]

Yep... Real exposed:applause:

[Heavincent]

What happened? :confusedshrug:

[K.Koscik]

Hmmm... Good question. I want to see if you'll respond to what I'm about to post, or whether you'll slink out of this thread and not respond.

Since the All-Star break, Bryant has played 12 full games, averaging 30.3/6.4/7 with 49.2% shooting on 21.3 shots.

To start the season, taking the first 15 games, Bryant averaged 27.7/5.3/4.9 with 50.2% shooting on 18.3 shots.

What you seem to be implying is that he hasn't been chucking of late with his 21.3 shots on 49% shooting, but that he started the season chucking with his 18.3 shots on 50.2% shooting. Am I understanding you correctly? :confusedshrug:

No. This will not be responded to. But it is hilarious :yaohappy:

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Hmmm... Good question. I want to see if you'll respond to what I'm about to post, or whether you'll slink out of this thread and not respond.

Since the All-Star break, Bryant has played 12 full games, averaging 30.3/6.4/7 with 49.2% shooting on 21.3 shots.

To start the season, taking the first 15 games, Bryant averaged 27.7/5.3/4.9 with 50.2% shooting on 18.3 shots.

What you seem to be implying is that he hasn't been chucking of late with his 21.3 shots on 49% shooting, but that he started the season chucking with his 18.3 shots on 50.2% shooting. Am I understanding you correctly? :confusedshrug:
thanks for reminding me about much easier times:cheers:

http://www.fatherlyadviceandrants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/slinky.jpg

[MaxFly]

thanks for reminding me about much easier times:cheers:

http://www.fatherlyadviceandrants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/slinky.jpg

Lol, those were great.

You think he'll come back with a response?

[G-Funk]

is kobe still chucking like he did at the start of the season?



Hmmm... Good question. I want to see if you'll respond to what I'm about to post, or whether you'll slink out of this thread and not respond.

Since the All-Star break, Bryant has played 12 full games, averaging 30.3/6.4/7 with 49.2% shooting on 21.3 shots.

To start the season, taking the first 15 games, Bryant averaged 27.7/5.3/4.9 with 50.2% shooting on 18.3 shots.

What you seem to be implying is that he hasn't been chucking of late with his 21.3 shots on 49% shooting, but that he started the season chucking with his 18.3 shots on 50.2% shooting. Am I understanding you correctly? :confusedshrug:


:oldlol: OWNED!

[coin24]

Where's that f@ggot tazb:roll: :roll:

[tazb]

Lakers lost with a full healthy team @ Phoenix before. Face it, Phoenix is better than the Lakers. :confusedshrug:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278401

[j3lademaster]

If anyone's gotten exposed it's Dwight (if he hasn't been exposed already). Suns didn't go to immediately foul him and give him 14 free throws to protect his fg%, they just let him brick his baby hooks on his own. Other than that, Nash led offenses need jumpshots to fall. There were quality looks, just weren't falling. However, I do think this team is more than formidable even without Bean.

[Graviton]

If anyone's gotten exposed it's Dwight (if he hasn't been exposed already). Suns didn't go to immediately foul him and give him 14 free throws to protect his fg%, they just let him brick his baby hooks on his own. Other than that, Nash led offenses need jumpshots to fall. There were quality looks, just weren't falling. However, I do think this team is more than formidable even without Bean.
That's what everyone should do, single cover Howard, let him do whatever.

Can't believe coaches still keep rewarding him FTs after that Atlanta series. Howard was exposed long ago. He isn't a good passer, post scorer or a high IQ big man. Force him to beat you, don't just give up without even trying.

[Legends66NBA7]

Who would have thought that the most consistent player the last 3 games for the Lakers would be Steve Blake.

[Graviton]

Who would have thought that the most consistent player the last 3 games for the Lakers would be Steve Blake.
Now he hope he brings it in the playoffs. :oldlol:

He was total garbage vs OKC last year.

[Legends66NBA7]

Now he hope he brings it in the playoffs. :oldlol:

He was total garbage vs OKC last year.

His first 2 seasons with the Lakers were garbage. This has been clearly his best run, so far.

And yeah, the Lakers can use his and Jamison scoring in the playoffs, but they need to get stops from them too... which is easier said than done.

[dh144498]

If anyone's gotten exposed it's Dwight (if he hasn't been exposed already). Suns didn't go to immediately foul him and give him 14 free throws to protect his fg%, they just let him brick his baby hooks on his own. Other than that, Nash led offenses need jumpshots to fall. There were quality looks, just weren't falling. However, I do think this team is more than formidable even without Bean.

this. :applause:

[The-Legend-24]

We are witnessing that Dwight cannot score without being spoon fed by Kobe, dude couldn't do shit against Haddadi or Scola on him. :roll:

How can somebody be this bad on offense?

[24r2]

OP exposed as a ****ing ******

[G-Funk]

We are witnessing that Dwight cannot score without being spoon fed by Kobe, dude couldn't do shit against Haddadi or Scola on him. :roll:

How can somebody be this bad on offense?


http://24.media.tumblr.com/a693792a4d6a85c59afbb0d8e42b5621/tumblr_mhxni2vfQK1rs5ngxo1_500.jpg

[dh144498]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/a693792a4d6a85c59afbb0d8e42b5621/tumblr_mhxni2vfQK1rs5ngxo1_500.jpg

:roll: :applause:

[andremiller07]

I still can't beleive people have Dwight ranked as #1 C this season....seriously the season numbers "look good" but what you get on the court does not reflect it.

[poido123]

He's been adjusting his game all season, what the fck are you talking about? Do you have league pass? Jesus christ, it's like this Ausie kid hasn't watched a Lakers game in 2 or 3 years.

Its not me saying that, have a listen to the media and analysts throughout the year. I have seen some minor adjustments every second or third game and then Kobe will have one of those shoot too much games and throw up bad shots. Thats the part that fustrates me, stay with what works ? :confusedshrug: I do watch my mates league pass, not every game but alot of them.

I'm no kid, I'm 30 :lol:

Don't stress man, I'm done talking about Kobe for a while, how bout dem bulls?

[LamarOdom]

That's what everyone should do, single cover Howard, let him do whatever.

Can't believe coaches still keep rewarding him FTs after that Atlanta series. Howard was exposed long ago. He isn't a good passer, post scorer or a high IQ big man. Force him to beat you, don't just give up without even trying.

He averaged 27/16 on 63% how is that getting exposed?

[STATUTORY]

We are witnessing that Dwight cannot score without being spoon fed by Kobe, dude couldn't do shit against Haddadi or Scola on him. :roll:

How can somebody be this bad on offense?

Telephone Pole-esque

[poido123]

Telephone Pole-esque

No point complaining about Dwight, turns out you got him for free...

Most teams would love to have Dwight as centre :coleman:

[STATUTORY]

No point complaining about Dwight, turns out you got him for free...

Most teams would love to have Dwight as centre :coleman:

I'm not complaining about the trade, even though a healthy bynum has always given Dwight fits.

I'm complaining about the media perception that Dwight is somehow a low post offensive presence and back to the basket anchor on offense

truth is he's just an alonzo mourning meets ben wallace type.