After the Heat win the championship, where will LBJ rank all-time?

[hawkfan]

After the Heat win the championship, where will LBJ rank all-time?

[Derivative]

top 10, one more put him top 5

[DaSeba5]

Top 10 to me assuming he wins MVP this year with 4 of them, 2 rings, and 2 Finals MVPs (assuming he's their best player in the Finals).

[inclinerator]

top 1

[1987_Lakers]

I will put him Top 10 as well. Will slide Hakeem to #11.

[LBJFTW]

top 1

Not even close.

[selrahc]

maybe top 20

[talkingconch]

#10 or 11

[ripthekik]

still only 2 rings, and with a stacked team.
bosh and wade is like having shaq..

so lebron only got 2 of kobe's 1st two rings.

[LilEddyCurry]

He will surpass Hakeem :applause:

[NumberSix]

After the Heat win the championship, where will LBJ rank all-time?
Many spots ahead of Kobe. That's where. :roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Realistically, between 20-35. Could rank a few spots higher but single-handedly costing his super stacked team the chip in 2011 plays against him.

[shady6121]

I will put him Top 10 as well. Will slide Kobe to #11.

FTFY

[ripthekik]

he's only got the first 2 rings of kobe, how's he going to pass him? :facepalm
winning with such a stacked team just doesn't help. he was supposed to win, he just choked.

[The Choken One]

Many spots ahead of Kobe. That's where. :roll:
Not in my association, mafuka is doing absolute damage on the league.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Realistically:
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Lebron James
Kobe
Hakeem

[Kingwillball]

Realistically:
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Lebron James
Kobe
Hakeem


Maybe after this season but eventually Lebron is passing all them not named MJ IMO.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Maybe after this season but eventually Lebron is passing all them not named MJ IMO.
Q was if the Heat win a championship this season. At the end of his career I can see him in top 3 with 4 rings. Top 5 with 3 rings.

[KOBE143]

I hate LeBron but I think he's going to be a top 25 player of all time if he ever got carried again to championship.. Including his individual accomplishment which he gets from statpadding and his .5ring + another .5 ring if he win this year thats a total of 1 whole ring so putting him in the top 25 is pretty reasonable and accurate..

[willds09]

After the Heat win the championship, where will LBJ rank all-time?
heat not winning:lol

[willds09]

lebron should be ranked very low cuz his cheating ass dont deserve it:no:

[willds09]

ahead of Kobe (1x MVP, and 2x Finals MVP), and Hakeem ( 1x MVP, 2x Finals MVP)
you on crack:lol

[willds09]

He will surpass Hakeem :applause:
no:wtf:

[willds09]

Many spots ahead of Kobe. That's where. :roll:
in ur dreamworld:lol :oldlol: :roll: :biggums: :coleman: :wtf: :kobe:

[SyRyanYang]

I hate LeBron but I think he's going to be a top 25 player of all time if he ever got carried again to championship.. Including his individual accomplishment which he gets from statpadding and his .5ring + another .5 ring if he win this year thats a total of 1 whole ring so putting him in the top 25 is pretty reasonable and accurate..
:roll:
Seriously thou, why 0.5 ring this year?

[willds09]

:roll:
Seriously thou, why 0.5 ring this year?
simply cuz of tha rigged streak and injured key players on other teams the east:rolleyes:

[arifgokcen]

SF:willds09
SGkobe143
PG:ripthekik
PF:selrahc
C:Mr.Jabbar
6th MAN
kennethgriffin(injured)

Troll Team prevails against lebroners again in a big blowout.Come on pick up lebroners

[Graviton]

SF:willds09
SGkobe143
PG:ripthekik
PF:selrahc
C:Mr.Jabbar
6th MAN
kennethgriffin(injured)

Troll Team prevails against lebroners again in a big blowout.Come on pick up lebroners
Ripthekik is a ****in ballhog why he playing PG, PG should be Jabbar, he shares his trolling with his teammates.

And :oldlol: @ Kobe143 being the SG, perfect for that mindless chucker that throws out no substance.

[maybeshewill13]

Ripthekik is a ****in ballhog why he playing PG, PG should be Jabbar, he shares his trolling with his teammates.

And :oldlol: @ Kobe143 being the SG, perfect for that mindless chucker that throws out no substance.
:lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

His resume will be similar to wilt's with less scoring titles in this hypothetical scenario.

[KOBE143]

simply cuz of tha rigged streak and injured key players on other teams the east:rolleyes:
this

plus Kobe injured his ankle badly.. :( Healthy Lakers are on lock to win the championship this year so if we dont make the finals then the heat deserve another asterisk if they do win this year..

[FPJ]

I always thought KOBE143 was a Lebron stan who wanted to make the Kobe dickriders look even worse.

[willds09]

this

plus Kobe injured his ankle badly.. :( Healthy Lakers are on lock to win the championship this year so if we dont make the finals then the heat deserve another asterisk if they do win this year..
any championship heat wins while they still have their mega super stacked team of all times deserves an asterisk truthfully:lol

[KOBE143]

any championship heat wins while they still have their mega super stacked team of all times deserves an asterisk truthfully:lol
agree :applause:

Probably the most stacked team ever..

[KOBE143]

I always thought KOBE143 was a Lebron stan who wanted to make the Kobe dickriders look even worse.
I'm a real Kobe fan by mind, by heart and soul.. Kobe's name already carved in my heart.. If only people can see it, then they will not post stupid shit like yours..

[tomtucker]

Jordan
Kobe
Lebron


:applause:

[Sheik1287]

agree :applause:

Probably the most stacked team ever..
1979

[willds09]

[QUOTE=Sheik1287]1979

[Sheik1287]

after all of that, 2013 heat is still more stacked:lol
But I thought Lebron sucked? How can they be stacked if he is not a good player?

:lol

[RoundMoundOfReb]

But I thought Lebron sucked? How can they be stacked if he is not a good player?

:lol
:lol :lol

[ripthekik]

Ripthekik is a ****in ballhog why he playing PG, PG should be Jabbar, he shares his trolling with his teammates.

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.

[coin24]

Idiot fu*king Lebron stans:facepalm

You discredit Kobes first 3 rings because he wasnt THE MAN in your eyes, yet LeBron not only left to form a superteam, HE LOST THEM THE TITLE.:roll:

Yeah I give credit for his 1 ring last season, but you know what will be epic this year? When Wade dominates the finals and LeBitch becomes Robin...
Move that choking f@ggot back down to 15-20 all time where he belongs..

[coin24]

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[fpliii]

Yeah I give credit for his 1 ring last season, but you know what will be epic this year? When Wade dominates the finals and LeBitch becomes Robin...
Move that choking f@ggot back down to 15-20 all time where he belongs..

I wonder where people would rank Wade if this happens?

[coin24]

I wonder where people would rank Wade if this happens?

Ahead of Bronzey as he will have 2xFMVP according to LeBron stans themselves:lol

[ripthekik]

Ahead of Bronzey as he will have 2xFMVP according to LeBron stans themselves:lol
Wade getting FMVP would be the next best thing this playoffs, second to Heat losing. Imagine Lebron winning a ring but not FMVP :roll: :roll:
Wade = 3 rings, 2 FMVP >>>>Lebron

[Sheik1287]

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers.
If Lebron is getting the same amount of help, why do you guys always complain about how stacked the Heat are?



Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:
I guess it's all on your own opinion. Would you discredit the showtime Lakers for having Magic + Kareem + other HOF's?


Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.
So what exactly does he have to do? Join some scrub team with no All-stars and lead them to victory?

[coin24]

Wade getting FMVP would be the next best thing this playoffs, second to Heat losing. Imagine Lebron winning a ring but not FMVP :roll: :roll:
Wade = 3 rings, 2 FMVP >>>>Lebron


It is every LeBron stans worst nightmare:roll: :roll: :roll: :rockon:

[bdreason]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. LeBron

[willds09]

But I thought Lebron sucked? How can they be stacked if he is not a good player?

:lol
I never said he sucked :wtf:

[ripthekik]

1. If Lebron is getting the same amount of help, why do you guys always complain about how stacked the Heat are?

2. So what exactly does he have to do? Join some scrub team with no All-stars and lead them to victory?
1. Because once Shaq=Wade+Bosh equals out, Lebron still has better role players. He's got amazing shooters around him man. This season he's even got Ray Allen. He also faces much less competition, especially in the East. Lakers went through a much much tougher Western Conference.

2. Just 1 all star will do. For example, if Wade does not exist on this heat team, and Lebron leads the team with Bosh to win, That I can respect. But Top 1, Top 5, Star PF? That's overkill.

[dunksby]

1- Kareem
2- MJ
3- Russell
4- Wilt
5- Magic
6- Bird
7- Shaq
8- Kobe
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem
11- LeBron

[SwayDizzle]

whatever happened to hawkfan trade scenarios?...where amazing happens :roll: :roll: :roll:

[willds09]

:lol :lol
Whats so funny raptors"no postseason".fan??:biggums:

[willds09]

1- Kareem
2- MJ
3- Russell
4- Wilt
5- Magic
6- Bird
7- Shaq
8- Kobe
9- Duncan
10- Hakeem
11- LeBron
Go Lower than that:lol

[GOBB_Junior]

Top 7-8 player of all time. If he average over 30 ppg on 50 FG%. He's going to have superior career finals stats than Kobe Bryant.

[fpliii]

Ahead of Bronzey as he will have 2xFMVP according to LeBron stans themselves:lol


Wade getting FMVP would be the next best thing this playoffs, second to Heat losing. Imagine Lebron winning a ring but not FMVP :roll: :roll:
Wade = 3 rings, 2 FMVP >>>>Lebron

Which guys would still be ahead of him (I don't think he'd crack most top 10s, but if he dominates he'd have to get pretty high up there)?

[Sharmer]

http://makeagif.com/media/3-19-2013/FrIlJc.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/FrIlJc)

[KOBE143]

LeBron costed his team 1 ring in 2011 finals so if he win this year that just makes it even.. I computed it using RER(Ring Efficiency Rating) and this is what I get.. -1 ring(costed ring) + 0.5 ring(lockout season) + 1 ring(this season) = 0.5 ring.. In the end LeBron only has .5 ring.. So is a half ring enough to put him in the top ten just like most stupid LeBron stans doing? I dont think so..

[GOBB_Junior]

Kobe and LeBron Finals Stats

Kobe Bryant: 25.4 ppg 6 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg 3.3TOV 41% 85%FT (7th NBA Finals appearance)

Lebron James: 23.5 ppg 8 rpg 7apg 1spg 0.4bpg 4.4TOV 44% 76%FT (3rd NBA Finals Appearance)


LBJ needs to average at least 30 ppg on over 50 FG%, 8 rpg, and 7 apg in his 4th trip to the NBA Finals.

[Sheik1287]

LeBron costed his team 1 ring in 2011 finals so if he win this year that just makes it even.. I computed it using RER(Ring Efficiency Rating) and this is what I get.. -1 ring(costed ring) + 0.5 ring(lockout season) + 1 ring(this season) = 0.5 ring.. In the end LeBron only has .5 ring.. So is a half ring enough to put him in the top ten just like most stupid LeBron stans doing? I dont think so..
How do you wear 0.5 ring? Do they even make those?

It's a full ring. Take a look:

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy345/en4cer2k10/lebron-ring.jpg

[GOBB_Junior]

How do you wear 0.5 ring? Do they even make those?

It's a full ring. Take a look:

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/yy345/en4cer2k10/lebron-ring.jpg


Just put these trolls back to your ignore list. No need to respond to their stupid posts.

[ripthekik]

Kobe and LeBron Finals Stats

Kobe Bryant: 25.4 ppg 6 rpg 5 apg 2 spg 1 bpg 3.3TOV 41% 85%FT (7th NBA Finals appearance)

Lebron James: 23.5 ppg 8 rpg 7apg 1spg 0.4bpg 4.4TOV 44% 76%FT (3rd NBA Finals Appearance)


LBJ needs to average at least 30 ppg on over 50 FG%, 8 rpg, and 7 apg in his 4th trip to the NBA Finals.
who the hell cares about those stats. :facepalm


Which guys would still be ahead of him (I don't think he'd crack most top 10s, but if he dominates he'd have to get pretty high up there)?

I think if Wade wins the FMVP this year, he will shock most people. Most people currently have him quite low, 20's to 30's? But if he wins, that's 3 rings, and 2 FMVP's. That's not someone in the top 30's, you certainly have to move him up. And his resume will look much more impressive than Lebron's, so yeah..

[Sharmer]

and the winner is.........

http://makeagif.com/media/3-19-2013/JO9AYV.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/JO9AYV)

[Sharmer]

Lebron is clearly the best player in the league. But these comparisons need to slow down. Maybe Lebron will finish up with 6 rings.

But still wont be perfect in the NBA finals.

[fpliii]

I think if Wade wins the FMVP this year, he will shock most people. Most people currently have him quite low, 20's to 30's? But if he wins, that's 3 rings, and 2 FMVP's. That's not someone in the top 30's, you certainly have to move him up. And his resume will look much more impressive than Lebron's, so yeah..

True. I'm a Wade stan so I probably have him higher than most. Without something completely unexpected (which a Finals MVP wouldn't be, since anybody can get hot for one series, so an elite/superstar level player doing so obviously wouldn't be unprecedented), his ceiling is probably just behind Jerry West (wherever he is on somebody's list) since it'd be hard to jump him in the SG rankings. A Finals MVP (with a 2011 DAL like series, which is reasonable; a 2006 DAL series is a completely different animal, and I don't see that happening) would obviously help him get close to that point.

[2010splash]

Second greatest player of all-time.

Without question a top 4-5 player all-time at the very worst.

[Shep]

top 3 behind jordan, and abdul-jabbar.

[Kurosawa0]

This is where I have him now:

1. MJ
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Larry
6. Wilt
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Shaq
10. Hakeem
11. Moses
12. LeBron

If LeBron wins the MVP, ring and Finals MVP this year I probably slide him into the #9 spot over Shaq. I'll give Shaq credit for having two (saying LeBron gets it this year) more rings, but what will put LeBron over him for me is the work ethic and consistency. Shaq would've been a top 5 player with LeBron's effort and consistency.

[Psileas]

LeBron costed his team 1 ring in 2011 finals so if he win this year that just makes it even.. I computed it using RER(Ring Efficiency Rating) and this is what I get.. -1 ring(costed ring) + 0.5 ring(lockout season) + 1 ring(this season) = 0.5 ring.. In the end LeBron only has .5 ring.. So is a half ring enough to put him in the top ten just like most stupid LeBron stans doing? I dont think so..

Wrong:

1) It's "kosted", not costed.
2) You should first divide PER with defensive win shares, then add offensive win shares divided by ppg, raise to 4/3 and then subtract 0.5.

Source: Euroleague.net

[Ne 1]

[QUOTE=Sheik1287

1999-2004
Shaq, Kobe, Robert Horry, Horace Grant, Ron Harper, Brian Shaw



So it's okay for the Lakers to have stacked teams, but not other teams? [/QUOTE]


:oldlol: The Shaq/Kobe Lakers weren't stacked. They relied HEAVILY on their 2 best players. Yes, they had a two-headed monster, but who was the 3rd best player on those 3-peat teams? Glen Rice and Derek Fisher/Rick Fox? Sorry, but those teams were not very talented outside of Kobe and Shaq at all, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Yet they weren't just a championship caliber team, but they were a DYNASTY. In fact, out of all the dynasties in NBA history those Lakers were CLEARLY the least talented.

[hateraid]

still only 2 rings, and with a stacked team.
bosh and wade is like having shaq..

so lebron only got 2 of kobe's 1st two rings.

Big hole in that argument:

Pippen and Rodman > Wade and Bosh
PJ > Spolstra

Let's just negate 3 of Jordan's rings while we're at it

We should also overvalue Duncan for winning 4 with a weaker cast.

[plowking]

Big hole in that argument:

Pippen and Rodman > Wade and Bosh



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wow... Hateraid, you can't be serious. You're way off.

[dh144498]

IF, a big IF, Lebron wins his mvp and fmvp this year, here is what the list would look like:

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
...
..
...
25. Lebron


congrats on lebron finally cracking the top 25. :applause:

[dh144498]

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.

:applause:

[theBIGjabroni]

:oldlol: The Shaq/Kobe Lakers weren't stacked. They relied HEAVILY on their 2 best players. Yes, they had a two-headed monster, but who was the 3rd best player on those 3-peat teams? Glen Rice and Derek Fisher/Rick Fox? Sorry, but those teams were not very talented outside of Kobe and Shaq at all, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Yet they weren't just a championship caliber team, but they were a DYNASTY. In fact, out of all the dynasties in NBA history those Lakers were CLEARLY the least talented.
leshortcut

[alleykat]

wtf? wut is this stupid ring mathematics system going on here in ISH? are u guys actually arguing about this?

good team wins a championship means .5 rings, so if they win, it is equal to shaq and kobe's first ring? Kobe really only has 2 rings then? Am I getting the mathematics right here?

:sleeping lol get outta here with that nonsense....

[Remix]

Top 7-8 player of all time. If he average over 30 ppg on 50 FG%. He's going to have superior career finals stats than Kobe Bryant.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

[Baller1986]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg


Welcome to the new era of greatness.

http://www.inflexwetrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/IFWT-Lebron-MVP-Finals.jpg

[Baller1986]

Lebron is clearly the best player in the league. But these comparisons need to slow down. Maybe Lebron will finish up with 6 rings.

But still wont be perfect in the NBA finals.


Larry Bird and the Boston Celtics are 3-2 in the NBA Finals

Magic Johnson and the Lakers are 5-3 in the NBA Finals

Shaq and his teams are 4-2 in the NBA Finals.

Kobe and his team are 5-2 in the NBA Finals

[hateraid]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wow... Hateraid, you can't be serious. You're way off.

Laughing at a statement doesn't make it wrong
Any realistic NBA fan would agree

Value as a teammate and overall player
Pippen > Wade
Rodman > Bosh

You can't be serious claiming that's way off

[NumberSix]

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.
You're missing the point. Of course LeBron has help. Nobody wins without help.

There was a big gap between Pippen and Jordan. People don't see Pippen's 6 rings the same way they see Jordan's 6 rings because Pippen was clearly a sidekick. If LeBron and Wade win multiple championships together, people aren't going to look at Wade as a sidekick because he isnt. Even though LeBron is better, they're pretty much equals. Wade isn't a sidekick.

With Kobe and Shaq, the gap is more like the gap between Jordan and Pippen than LeBron and wade.

Even though LeBron has superstar help, you can't put it in the same context as Kobe's 3 rings with Shaq. LeBron isn't a sidekick. Not saying in a "dissing" way. LeBron and wade aren't winning with somebody who is more valuable than themselves by a big gap.

Just like pippen, When Kobe won with Shaq, he was #2 to a guy who was drastically more valuable to their success than himself. You can't say that about LeBron.

[GOBB_Junior]

LeBron's hypothetical accomplishments after this season.

NBA champion (2012) (2013)
NBA Finals MVP (2012) (2013)
4

[dh144498]

[QUOTE=GOBB_Junior]LeBron's hypothetical accomplishments after this season.

NBA champion (2012) (2013)
NBA Finals MVP (2012) (2013)
4

[gengiskhan]

[QUOTE=GOBB_Junior]LeBron's hypothetical accomplishments after this season.

NBA champion (2012) (2013)
NBA Finals MVP (2012) (2013)
4

[r15mohd]

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.

Did you miss the 2011-2012 season? Lebron did lead the Heat all during the reg season, won the MVP, as well as lead a injured squad to the Finals and dominated and won the title and FMVP.

[TheMan]

I don't understand why all the Kobe stans dis LBJ for wanting to have a stacked team. Take a look at the list of NBA championship teams, almost all are what you'd consider stacked teams. From when I started watching the NBA in the mid 80s, Larry's Celtics, Moses' 76ers, Showtime Lakers, Bad Boys Pistons, MJ's Bulls, Duncan/DRob Spurs, Shaq's Lakers, KG/PP's Celtics and Kobe/Gasol Lakers, they all have something in common, they were deep teams.

The only teams you can argue that weren't your classic "stacked" team in that time span are Hakeem's Rockets (though they added Drexler in their second run and keep in mind MJ was chasing flyballs in baseball) and the 2004 Pistons but that team had a lot of very good players, also Dirk's Mavs and DWade's Heat but the amount of ridiculous calls Wade got that Finals always left a sour taste in my mouth.

Point is, rarely does a one player team win a chip, Russell played in a very stacked Celtics team and nobody gives him shit for that. Kobe stans should be the last to complain, didn't Bryant threaten to leave the Lakers if they didn't get him a stacked team a few years ago? And didn't the Lakers just get him the best Center in the league a few months ago?:facepalm LBJ LED his team to an NBA title last year, he wasn't carried.

[2010splash]

Laughing at a statement doesn't make it wrong
Any realistic NBA fan would agree

Value as a teammate and overall player
Pippen > Wade
Rodman > Bosh

You can't be serious claiming that's way off
That's not right. You can say that 2 > 5, but it's not true. You can say that 100 is a smaller number than 2, but again, repeating a falsehood over and over again doesn't make it true.

Similarly, just saying that Pippen was better than Wade doesn't make it so. It's fairly obvious that Wade has played offense at a level that Pippen could never dream of.

And Rodman > Bosh? :roll: Yeah, sure... since when in basketball do we take a guy who was a complete offensive liability and scored 6 ppg on horrible efficiency over a guy who averaged 24/11/2 on 52% shooting his best year and pretty much was a perennial 22/9 guy every year before that?

[2010splash]

You jokers need to stop ranking guys like Russell and Bird over LeBron. They have nothing over him except for the fact that they played longer and won more titles because they had better teams early in their careers. LeBron is a far better and more dominant player than both of them. In fact, he's better than anyone to have ever played this game besides Jordan.

After this season's title, he becomes anywhere from 2-5 all time. Most dominant player ever along with Jordan.

[TheMan]

My revised list but THESE WILL BE LOCKED GUARANTEED Top 10.

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic
6. Bird
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Big O
10.LBJ

LBJ with Back-2-Back MVP SWEEPS & rings will be a LOCKED Top 10 GOAT. (above 11-15: kobe or duncan or charles or Dr. J or Elgin or West whoever called "all-time greats")

Its the NEXT yr that'll be EXTREMELY important.

If LBJ goes on having another MVP SWEEP thats 3 in a row & 3-peat rings.

NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT. Not even MJ.

That will Put LBJ above Bird in Top 5 GOAT catagory!

That can PULL LBJ into Top 5 catagory

EVEN SCARIER SCENARIO...next yr.

LBJ can win D.P.O.Y in the midst of all this!

2013-2014 LBJ year will put MJs GOAT status in JEOPARDY!
You and I both know that MJ left two years of his absolute prime on the table and that MJ was easily robbed of 2 more MVPs...Barkley and Malone were never better than MJ.

[Alan Ogg]

Larry Bird and the Boston Celtics are 3-2 in the NBA Finals

Magic Johnson and the Lakers are 5-3 in the NBA Finals

Shaq and his teams are 4-2 in the NBA Finals.

Kobe and his team are 5-2 in the NBA Finals

Magic played in 9 Finals.

[TheMan]

You jokers need to stop ranking guys like Russell and Bird over LeBron. They have nothing over him except for the fact that they played longer and won more titles because they had better teams early in their careers. LeBron is a far better and more dominant player than both of them. In fact, he's better than anyone to have ever played this game besides Jordan.

After this season's title, he becomes anywhere from 2-5 all time. Most dominant player ever along with Jordan.
I agree with this but you left out Shaq. LBJ is dominating right now on a Shaq/Jordan level.

[IGOTGAME]

Laughing at a statement doesn't make it wrong
Any realistic NBA fan would agree

Value as a teammate and overall player
Pippen > Wade
Rodman > Bosh

You can't be serious claiming that's way off

this is just plain silly.

[Alan Ogg]

Lebron is clearly the best player in the league. But these comparisons need to slow down. Maybe Lebron will finish up with 6 rings.

But still wont be perfect in the NBA finals.

Because losing earlier in the playoffs is better than losing in the Finals?

[BIZARRO]

The whole notion a player climbing the ranks after winning this or that is really flawed IMO. I mean, you can look at it after a career and take all the Finals MVP's, Finals, MVPS, into account, and rightfully so, as it plays into it, but LBJ's greatness is something you can see with your eyes. Right now.

I don't need a string of accomplishments to see it. It reinforces it sure. But what is Cornbread Maxwell better than Charles Barkley because he has a Ring with a Finals MVP. No way.

Lebron is quite simply one of the Top 5 players I've ever seen. Meaning his level of play. Period.

From players I've seen, it goes (in order):
MJ
Magic
Lebron
Kobe
Bird
Shaq
Olajuwon
Duncan

Didn't see prime Kareem, or at all Wilt, Big O, Russell, or they'd be in the Top 10 going on most people who saw them's accounts.

[Kingwillball]

I love dillusional Kobe stans.. Bottom line Lebron is and has been the more complete and dominant player. Kobe for most of his career has been a one trick pony(scorer) not until recently since he realized how much value it addsto his team has he added other areas like passing and rebounding. Obviously getting that from Lebron seeing there are more ways to beat teams and help your own. Kobe has also been a good defender but not as versatile as Lebron either. The only argument anybody can make for Kobe is championships which was part of being on stacked teams plus had Shaq carry him as a sidekick for a few. I am confident in a few years Lebron will be mentioned in most circles at adult table in top 5.

[lilgodfather1]

You pretty much have to rank him above Bird. More MVPs, same FMVPs, and will pass Bird in points/assists next season at this rate. It will be undisputible if he wins 3 titles, but at the end of next year regardless of his title count it will be pretty hard not to rank him ahead of Bird given good health of course.

[IGOTGAME]

if he doesn't win it should be held against him. This team, if healthy, without Lebron James would make the Finals. The East is that bad. They should be rested after beating those horrible teams for 3 rounds.

[NumberSix]

You jokers need to stop ranking guys like Russell and Bird over LeBron. They have nothing over him except for the fact that they played longer and won more titles because they had better teams early in their careers. LeBron is a far better and more dominant player than both of them.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vEc4MGUJ9yM/UHd-zDeCmEI/AAAAAAAAESo/rb10CmnnmbE/s1600/tumblr_m375i8CsgD1r5yyzuo4_r1_500.jpg

[Ne 1]

Just like pippen, When Kobe won with Shaq, he was #2 to a guy who was drastically more valuable to their success than himself. You can't say that about LeBron.


Except LeBron and even Jordan would also be the "#2" if they played with prime Shaq.

It's true that Kobe was not as good or valuable as Shaq at the time. Kobe was the best player in the Spurs series in 2001 and 2002, however and in 2001 against the Blazers and Kings and 2002 against the Kings they were 1A/1B. Kobe was also the second best player in the entire 2001 and 2002 playoffs, and many considered him the second best player in the entire league at the time. The only reason I'm hesitant to agree is because Duncan was in the league. Either way, Kobe's performances during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context. The consensus during these years was that Shaq was the best player in the NBA, but if you try using that to discredit Kobe then you also have to remember that the consensus was that Kobe was the second best player in the league starting around the 2001 playoffs. The gap was much larger in 2000, but Kobe was still a top 10 player, imo, and probably the best shooting guard in the league. The 3-peat Lakers were not a typical championship team, because there was no 3rd All-Star caliber player, or even really a 3rd scoring option save for 2000 with an aging Glen Rice in that role putting up 12/4/2 on 41% shooting in the playoffs. This left plenty of room for Kobe to play his game and produce like a first option himself with Derek Fisher or Rick Fox as the closest thing the team had to a 3rd option in 2001 and 2002. Neither were scoring options. The offense went through Shaq first, but Kobe didn't have to take a backseat like Wade has the last 2 seasons because there's no Chris Bosh, much less a Ray Allen now as well, and because Kobe was improving, not declining like Wade.


In short; Kobe being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. Kobe was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was the most productive #2 option in NBA history and arguably the 2nd best player in the league in 2001 and 2002 behind Shaq. Calling him a "sidekick" in '01 and even '02 doesn't do his level of play justice although Shaq was definitely the best player on the team, but labeling Kobe's rings in 2001 and 2002 as just "2 option rings" is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001/2002 than it was just Shaq, and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant. Especially considering the fact that the 3-peat Lakers weren't that talented outside of Kobe and Shaq and relied HEAVILY on them as a duo.

[NumberSix]

Except LeBron and even Jordan would also be the "#2" if they played with prime Shaq.

It's true that Kobe was not as good or valuable as Shaq at the time. Kobe was the best player in the Spurs series in 2001 and 2002, however and in 2001 against the Blazers and Kings and 2002 against the Kings they were 1A/1B. Kobe was also the second best player in the entire 2001 and 2002 playoffs, and many considered him the second best player in the entire league at the time. The only reason I'm hesitant to agree is because Duncan was in the league. Either way, Kobe's performances during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context. The consensus during these years was that Shaq was the best player in the NBA, but if you try using that to discredit Kobe then you also have to remember that the consensus was that Kobe was the second best player in the league starting around the 2001 playoffs. The gap was much larger in 2000, but Kobe was still a top 10 player, imo, and probably the best shooting guard in the league. The 3-peat Lakers were not a typical championship team, because there was no 3rd All-Star caliber player, or even really a 3rd scoring option save for 2000 with an aging Glen Rice in that role putting up 12/4/2 on 41% shooting in the playoffs. This left plenty of room for Kobe to play his game and produce like a first option himself with Derek Fisher or Rick Fox as the closest thing the team had to a 3rd option in 2001 and 2002. Neither were scoring options. The offense went through Shaq first, but Kobe didn't have to take a backseat like Wade has the last 2 seasons because there's no Chris Bosh, much less a Ray Allen now as well, and because Kobe was improving, not declining like Wade.


In short; Kobe being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. Kobe was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was the most productive #2 option in NBA history and arguably the 2nd best player in the league in 2001 and 2002 behind Shaq. Calling him a "sidekick" in '01 and even '02 doesn't do his level of play justice although Shaq was definitely the best player on the team, but labeling Kobe's rings in 2001 and 2002 as just "2 option rings" is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001/2002 than it was just Shaq, and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant. Especially considering the fact that the 3-peat Lakers weren't that talented outside of Kobe and Shaq and relied HEAVILY on them as a duo.
Hence, the Player-A > Player-B because he has more rings argument is stupid.

To me, LeBron James is one of the top 3 players I've watched in my life time. I don't care if he finishes his career with 1 ring or 10 rings. It doesn't change the calibre of player he is.

[Rasheed1]

[QUOTE=Sheik1287]1979

[Ne 1]

Bottom line Lebron is and has been the more complete and dominant player. Kobe for most of his career has been a one trick pony(scorer)

:roll: That's like saying Oscar is better than Jordan using your reasoning.


not until recently since he realized how much value it adds to his team has he added other areas like passing

Kobe led his team in assists every year, except one, for over a decade.

Playoff Assists amongst non-point guards:
Larry Bird 1062
Scottie Pippen 1048
Kobe Bryant 1040


"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.

"And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."

Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that." - Phil Jackson 2001


The only argument anybody can make for Kobe is championships which was part of being on stacked teams plus had Shaq carry him as a sidekick for a few.

:facepalm

That's fair and logical how? That really sounds like a catch or loophole that prevents justice. So LeBron is protected from being mentioned in the same context because he was "number 1" but because of that alone you can't talk about that even though it comes to down to same as talking that way about Kobe?

Anyway you are overstating when you say that Kobe was a "side-kick".
Yes, he was but with more duties, responsibilities and everything else than most other 2nd options. He wasn't as good or valuable as Shaq at the time but he was NOT carried to those 3 rings.

Usually, when a guy is the undisputed alpha dog, he's the one taking the last shot, close out games, being a go to guy when the game is on the line among many other things. For the Lakers, that was often Kobe Bryant. That isn't often examined... Kobe was generally "plan B" throughout the game as far as scoring goes. However in the 4th quarter, he often became "plan A" and sometimes, "plan AA" if Jackson sat Shaq because of hack-a-Shaq. In the history of the game, how often were guys who were riding the coattails of other players asked to take over so consistently?

Plus, it's not like he was a role player or a Tony Parker level 2nd option.
He was a secondary part of a duo and he averaged 29 and 27 points a game in the playoffs while taking the last shots?

Black and white simplicity concept is the only thing what really hurts Kobe here. Misguided people see it so simple, number 1 option, number 2 option...that's always it. However, Kobe and Shaq were a Co-MVP level duo for all but the 1st year they won in 2000. They were more like Magic and Kareem than Duncan-Parker or even Jordan-Pippen.

[pegasus]

Top-5, easily. That is of course assuming July of 2010 and June of 2011 didn't happen, and what he did in May of 2012 (ECSF & ECF) had a lot more significance than what he did in June of 2012, where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint and got bailed by the refs at the end of almost every game (2-4) while every single one of his teammates played out of their minds on both ends of the floor.

Again, top-5, easily.:bowdown:

[All Net]

Top 10...and he's only going to keep jumping..

[NumberSix]

:facepalm

That's fair and logical how? That really sounds like a catch or loophole that prevents justice. So LeBron is protected from being mentioned in the same context because he was "number 1" but because of that alone you can't talk about that even though it comes to down to same as talking that way about Kobe?

Anyway you are overstating when you say that Kobe was a "side-kick".
Yes, he was but with more duties, responsibilities and everything else than most other 2nd options. He wasn't as good or valuable as Shaq at the time but he was NOT carried to those 3 rings.

Usually, when a guy is the undisputed alpha dog, he's the one taking the last shot, close out games, being a go to guy when the game is on the line among many other things. For the Lakers, that was often Kobe Bryant. That isn't often examined... Kobe was generally "plan B" throughout the game as far as scoring goes. However in the 4th quarter, he often became "plan A" and sometimes, "plan AA" if Jackson sat Shaq because of hack-a-Shaq. In the history of the game, how often were guys who were riding the coattails of other players asked to take over so consistently?

Plus, it's not like he was a role player or a Tony Parker level 2nd option.
He was a secondary part of a duo and he averaged 29 and 27 points a game in the playoffs while taking the last shots?

Black and white simplicity concept is the only thing what really hurts Kobe here. Misguided people see it so simple, number 1 option, number 2 option...that's always it. However, Kobe and Shaq were a Co-MVP level duo for all but the 1st year they won in 2000. They were more like Magic and Kareem than Duncan-Parker or even Jordan-Pippen.
Yeah, guarantee this guy starts singing a different tune when someone brings up that Pippen has 6 rings and is higher in these little volume playoff stats in less games.

InB4... "Oh, no that's different". Lol. Apparently, Kobe is the only player in NBA history that their "logic" applies to.

[rmt]

Wrong:

1) It's "kosted", not costed.
2) You should first divide PER with defensive win shares, then add offensive win shares divided by ppg, raise to 4/3 and then subtract 0.5.

Source: Euroleague.net

The past tense of cost is cost.

I'd have Lebron at 10-11 with Hakeem. Hakeem did win with much less help, and I'd choose Hakeem over Lebron to start a franchise (big man impact and all).

[Ne 1]

Hence, the Player-A > Player-B because he has more rings argument is stupid.


I agree without context the argument is stupid, just like the "rings as the man" argument.

"#1 option rings" is a faux category. It's not even a real category, yet for some reason people throw it out as if it's a statistical category. Really, does anyone outside of ISH and similar websites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. It's hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant.

If terms like "the man" or "#1 option" are going to be thrown around, we need to define them. "#1 option". Option for what?

People are hypocritical about this. No one penalizes Dr. J or Oscar for never winning a championship as the best player. Wilt is considered to have 2 rings even though Jerry West was better for 1. Then there is Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but another won MVP of the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was actually closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"? :confusedshrug:

"Rings as the man" is not always clear. Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.

[1987_Lakers]

Hakeem gets overrated by some IMO. Yes, he had an amazing peak & won back to back titles, but there was a time during the early 90's when some were saying Ewing & David Robinson were better players, Hakeem didn't get the recognition he gets now until he was in his 30's. LeBron has been the undisputed best player in the league for the past 5 years or so.

(Assuming LeBron wins another MVP & title this year)...

LeBron: 4x NBA MVP, 2x NBA Champion
Hakeem in his 18 year career: 1 NBA MVP, 2x NBA Champion

[lpublic_enemyl]

lebron with 3 rings 3 finals mvps and 4 regular season mvp posting his stats wud put him above kobes without a doubt

[willds09]

Second greatest player of all-time.

Without question a top 4-5 player all-time at the very worst.
:oldlol: so wheres kobe???

[willds09]

Top-5, easily. That is of course assuming July of 2010 and June of 2011 didn't happen, and what he did in May of 2012 (ECSF & ECF) had a lot more significance than what he did in June of 2012, where he shot less than 20% from outside the paint and got bailed by the refs at the end of almost every game (2-4) while every single one of his teammates played out of their minds on both ends of the floor.

Again, top-5, easily.:bowdown:
top 40:lol

[willds09]

lebron with 3 rings 3 finals mvps and 4 regular season mvp posting his stats wud put him above kobes without a doubt
nope stlll wouldnt, try again:lol

[willds09]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg
:roll: end thread, what a scrub:lol

[The Choken One]

Since when did someone being a regular season allstar and post-season dude automatically qualify them for the top 10?

1/3 in the finals? Talking about chitting the bed.

[elementally morale]

Outside the top 10 but inside the top 15. Somewhere there.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Anyone that would still have him out of the top 10 is a hater

[elementally morale]

Anyone that would still have him out of the top 10 is a hater

I don't really like his game because I prefer skill to physical dominance. But I don't hate the guy at all. There are some players I dislike (Pierce, for example) but LeBron is not one of them. I don't really care about him either way. He is a good player but I don't particularly enjoy watching him play.

With that said, top 15 is hardly an insult. He is not even 30 he has plenty of time going up higher and he already is higher than guys like Barkley or Karl Malone, who, btw had great careers.

Now if someone asked me where I think LeBron would finish his career, I'd say most definitely inside the top 10 and likely inside the top 5. He is just not there yet.

[NumberSix]

I agree without context the argument is stupid, just like the "rings as the man" argument.

"#1 option rings" is a faux category. It's not even a real category, yet for some reason people throw it out as if it's a statistical category. Really, does anyone outside of ISH and similar websites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings any all-time great player has: Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem etc. 6, 6, 11, 5, 3, 5, 4 and 2. It's hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant.

If terms like "the man" or "#1 option" are going to be thrown around, we need to define them. "#1 option". Option for what?

People are hypocritical about this. No one penalizes Dr. J or Oscar for never winning a championship as the best player. Wilt is considered to have 2 rings even though Jerry West was better for 1. Then there is Magic/Kareem. What about cases where one player was better but another won MVP of the Finals, like Pierce over Garnett in 2008 or Parker over Duncan in 2007? Look at Bird vs. Magic as an example. Magic is usually ranked ahead of Bird largely because he has 5 rings and Bird has 3. However, Magic was the undisputed best player on his team for only 2 of his championships. Yet all 5 "count" when comparing him to Bird? Heck, Kobe was actually closer to Shaq in 2001 and 2002 than Magic was to Kareem in 1980, but only 2 of Kobe's rings "count" (2009 and 2010), yet all 5 of Magic's "count"? :confusedshrug:

"Rings as the man" is not always clear. Why should it even matter? If one player was 40% responsible, another 30% responsible, and the other 10 players 30% responsible does that 10% really matter? I look at whether a player was indispensable. If you replaced a player with an above average player at his position would his team still win? If so, I give him less credit.
I'd think you'd stop hearing people making these arguments if Kobe trolls stopped using "5 rings" with no context to prop up him above players that are clearly greater than him.

Let's not mince words here. That's what this is all about. Nobody cares that Shaq didn't win FMVP on his last championship. Nobody even really cares about FMVP as an award. It only comes up when trolls try to put a guy like Kobe above guys like Shaq, Magic, Bird, etc... who are clearly greater players.

[dh144498]

I'd think you'd stop hearing people making these arguments if Kobe trolls stopped using "5 rings" with no context to prop up him above players that are clearly greater than him.

Let's not mince words here. That's what this is all about. Nobody cares that Shaq didn't win FMVP on his last championship. Nobody even really cares about FMVP as an award. It only comes up when trolls try to put a guy like Kobe above guys like Shaq, Magic, Bird, etc... who are clearly greater players.

no they aren't.... :facepalm

[pauk]

Well that means:

4 x MVP
2 x FMVP
2 x Champion
1 x ROTY
9 x All-Star
7 x 1st All-NBA
5 x 1st All-Defensive
2 x Olympic Gold
2 x All-Star MVP
and so on...

Then you include the numbers/milestones/records and the fact that he was/is the best player in the world for many years, his peak / domination...

He will belong somewhere at highest #5 and at worst #8...

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Wilt
5. Magic

6-10. Lebron, Bird, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan/Hakeem.... there he will belong...

[NumberSix]

no they aren't.... :facepalm
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/colin91a/CoolStoryBro.jpg

[dh144498]

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/colin91a/CoolStoryBro.jpg

:banana:

[gengiskhan]

You and I both know that MJ left two years of his absolute prime on the table and that MJ was easily robbed of 2 more MVPs...Barkley and Malone were never better than MJ.

Yes, I know

BUT

LBJ has easiest era to collect as many individual accolades as possible. He has no real competition in this watered down era!

MJ won MVPs, FMVPs, DPOY, ROY over EXTREME competition of '80s era & '90s era.

When MJ winning MVPs, FMVPs, DOPY, ROY:--> Magic, Bird BEASTING, Isiah, Dumars & Pistons TERRORIZING, Drexler & Blazers PEAKING, Ewing & the KNICKS ELITING to the top, Even Peyton, Kemp ABSOLUTE PRIMING, Barkley, Malone, Stockton RUNNING WILD, Hakeem & Rockets GOATing. D-Rob's UNBELIEVABLE ATLETICISM for 7 footer.

Now

when LBJ winning MVPs, FMVPs:--> Kobe turning really old & STAT PADDING, Dwight INJURY RIDDEN, Wade becoming LOYAL 2nd FIDDLE, NO beasting power forwards & centers, Durant TOO YOUNG & ONE DIMENTIONAL.

LBJ is gonna win 6-7 MVPs before Durant turns 28 yrs old. Thats the scary part.

Where is the KILLER COMPETITION to stop LBJ night after night that we saw with MJ's dominance. Even a CBA star like Starks went at MJ all guns blazing.

we dont see that today. LBJ has ABSOLUTELY CLEAR PATH to collect whatever he could barring any MAJOR INJURY.

[willds09]

Anyone that would still have him out of the top 10 is a hater
:oldlol:

[willds09]

http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss217/colin91a/CoolStoryBro.jpg
man phuck george w. bush, get that beetch outta here:mad:

[2010splash]

:oldlol: so wheres kobe???
Uh, not ahead of LeBron? People seriously believe Kobe is greater than a LeBron with 4 MVPs in 5 seasons and back to back historically dominant regular seasons and playoff runs capped off with 2 Finals MVPs? Please...

[SilkkTheShocker]

Amazing how some would still have Moses Malone in front of LeBron. Hakeem or Kobe are easily getting bumped. I won't even count Wilt, since he would be Hilton Armstrong in today's era.

[midatlantic09]

You jokers need to stop ranking guys like Russell and Bird over LeBron. They have nothing over him except for the fact that they played longer and won more titles because they had better teams early in their careers. LeBron is a far better and more dominant player than both of them. In fact, he's better than anyone to have ever played this game besides Jordan.

After this season's title, he becomes anywhere from 2-5 all time. Most dominant player ever along with Jordan.

I agree 100%. The reality is that, talentwise, Lebron is a top 5 player all time. Sure, guys like Magic/Bird/Russell/Duncan/etc have more team accolaides, but in terms of overall talent and skill, Lebron is clearly a top 5 player all time RIGHT NOW.

Btw, LOL @ people ranking Moses Malone ahead of Lebron.

[greymatter]

:lol

BTW serious question. You guys diss Kobe for having his first 3 rings with Shaq. Well, Lebron got the same amount of help in Wade+Bosh+role helpers. Basically, Kobe and Lebron both got a tremendous amount of help for their first rings.

Shouldn't Lebron's be discounted too then? What's so impressive about winning with Wade and Bosh? T-mac could probably do the same :oldlol:

Now, when Bron goes out and lead his own team to the championship like Kobe later did, that's when he should start moving up.

Well retard, that's because Lebron was the best player on his team by a landslide when they won the title. Now go stew in anguish while the Heat continue their winning streak.

[Psileas]

The past tense of cost is cost.

I'd have Lebron at 10-11 with Hakeem. Hakeem did win with much less help, and I'd choose Hakeem over Lebron to start a franchise (big man impact and all).

Read my whole message. ;)

[greymatter]

But still wont be perfect in the NBA finals.

Only 1 of Jordan's 6 finals was against a team that was arguably better (93 Suns) and even then, not by much. Every other time his team was clearly superior. Perfect finals record = vastly overated given this circumstance.

[Sharmer]

Larry Bird and the Boston Celtics are 3-2 in the NBA Finals

Magic Johnson and the Lakers are 5-3 in the NBA Finals

Shaq and his teams are 4-2 in the NBA Finals.

Kobe and his team are 5-2 in the NBA Finals

This is why........

http://makeagif.com/media/3-19-2013/ZIBqrR.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/ZIBqrR)

I rate Lebron above all those other players. But MJ was perfect 6 out of 6 in NBA finals, with 6 MVPs.

I'm no Lebron hater. I know a lot of people were just waiting for him to fail so they could stick the knife in. I always wanted him to succeed. He really silenced the critics last year and this year he has elevated his game even more.

I see Lebron leading the Heat to multiple rings. But the one stat which is a thorn to Lebron being GOAT. Is that MJ perfect 6 out of 6.

Another issue is Jordan played in harder era defensively. Players were allowed to play a lot harder on the defensive end. The NBA introduced all these hand and elbow checking rules, and there really strictly inforced now.

Prime Jordan would tear the league apart under current rules.

[lilgodfather1]

This is why........

http://makeagif.com/media/3-19-2013/ZIBqrR.gif (http://www.makeagif.com/ZIBqrR)

I rate Lebron above all those other players. But MJ was perfect 6 out of 6 in NBA finals, with 6 MVPs.

I'm no Lebron hater. I know a lot of people were just waiting for him to fail so they could stick the knife in. I always wanted him to succeed. He really silenced the critics last year and this year he has elevated his game even more.

I see Lebron leading the Heat to multiple rings. But the one stat which is a thorn to Lebron being GOAT. Is that MJ perfect 6 out of 6.

Another issue is Jordan played in harder era defensively. Players were allowed to play a lot harder on the defensive end. The NBA introduced all these hand and elbow checking rules, and there really strictly inforced now.

Prime Jordan would tear the league apart under current rules.
Why would losing in the finals be considerd a black mark on your resume? I'd rather be 5/9 than 5/5 because that means you WON MORE than the other guy did. LeBron could very well rip off a 3 straight season MVP sweep, which is unprecedented to say the least. If he wins 4 in a row his argument for GOAT is looking very good, and if he wins 5 titles with 7 MVPs he is the GOAT unquestionably since he would have spent half of his career in the finals.

Any ways the real reason I responded to your post, other than the rediculous notion that losing in the first round is better than losing in the finals is because you're disrespecting the greatest defensive era in basketball. No more man to man we actually have defensive schemes, and the fastest paced team in the NBA today would be middle of the pack in the 90's leading to iflated stats in the 90's. Jordan would be lucky to hit 32 in todays game.

[crisoner]

I hope this thread jinxes them.

[Sharmer]

Why would losing in the finals be considerd a black mark on your resume?

It's like the perennial silver medalist verse the gold medalist. Gold > Silver. Yet Silver > bronze or being unplaced, just as you say. But Jordan in Finals is Gold, nothing else.


you're disrespecting the greatest defensive era in basketbal

This second statement is a joke, 1990's basketball was so much more physical, none of this soft zones and soft D rules. For instance, someone like Chris Bosh would get pulverized.

[DatAsh]

Except LeBron and even Jordan would also be the "#2" if they played with prime Shaq.

I think it depends on which version of those 3 guys you're comparing. I don't think any version of Jordan or Lebron are better than 00' Shaq, though 90' and 91' Jordan are close enough as to be arguable. 89' - 91' Jordan would probably be better than 01' and 02' Shaq, and I'd put 89'-93' Jordan or 12' - 13' Lebron over 02' Shaq. Current Lebron is right up there with 01' Shaq for me.



It's true that Kobe was not as good or valuable as Shaq at the time. Kobe was the best player in the Spurs series in 2001 and 2002, however and in 2001 against the Blazers and Kings and 2002 against the Kings they were 1A/1B. Kobe was also the second best player in the entire 2001 and 2002 playoffs, and many considered him the second best player in the entire league at the time. The only reason I'm hesitant to agree is because Duncan was in the league. Either way, Kobe's performances during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context. The consensus during these years was that Shaq was the best player in the NBA, but if you try using that to discredit Kobe then you also have to remember that the consensus was that Kobe was the second best player in the league starting around the 2001 playoffs. The gap was much larger in 2000, but Kobe was still a top 10 player, imo, and probably the best shooting guard in the league. The 3-peat Lakers were not a typical championship team, because there was no 3rd All-Star caliber player, or even really a 3rd scoring option save for 2000 with an aging Glen Rice in that role putting up 12/4/2 on 41% shooting in the playoffs. This left plenty of room for Kobe to play his game and produce like a first option himself with Derek Fisher or Rick Fox as the closest thing the team had to a 3rd option in 2001 and 2002. Neither were scoring options. The offense went through Shaq first, but Kobe didn't have to take a backseat like Wade has the last 2 seasons because there's no Chris Bosh, much less a Ray Allen now as well, and because Kobe was improving, not declining like Wade.


In short; Kobe being #2 to Shaq should hurt him in no way. Kobe was still in the argument for being among the best players in the league, and he was the most productive #2 option in NBA history and arguably the 2nd best player in the league in 2001 and 2002 behind Shaq. Calling him a "sidekick" in '01 and even '02 doesn't do his level of play justice although Shaq was definitely the best player on the team, but labeling Kobe's rings in 2001 and 2002 as just "2 option rings" is diminishing what he actually was ... it was far more a two headed monster in LA in 2001/2002 than it was just Shaq, and his little Robin aka Kobe Bryant. Especially considering the fact that the 3-peat Lakers weren't that talented outside of Kobe and Shaq and relied HEAVILY on them as a duo.

Great post. "Kobe's performances during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context." - is spot on. Judge a player on what he did, not what he did in relation to what someone else on his team did.

[rmt]

I think it depends on which version of those 3 guys you're comparing. I don't think any version of Jordan or Lebron are better than 00' Shaq, though 90' and 91' Jordan are close enough as to be arguable. 89' - 91' Jordan would probably be better than 01' and 02' Shaq, and I'd put 89'-93' Jordan or 12' - 13' Lebron over 02' Shaq. Current Lebron is right up there with 01' Shaq for me.



Great post. "Kobe's performances during the 2001 and 2002 playoffs was better than some championship team's first option which is why you can't just judge rings as "first option rings" or "second option rings" without context." - is spot on. Judge a player on what he did, not what he did in relation to what someone else on his team did.

And you seriously don't think that who's on your team affects how you are guarded. That having a peak Shaq didn't draw double and triple teams which left team mates WIDE open.

[DatAsh]

And you seriously don't think that who's on your team affects how you are guarded. That having a peak Shaq didn't draw double and triple teams which left team mates WIDE open.

Of course it does, but that has no relation to what I said.

[tpols]

And you seriously don't think that who's on your team affects how you are guarded. That having a peak Shaq didn't draw double and triple teams which left team mates WIDE open.
And Kobe didn't help Shaq out at all with his perimeter ball handling/triangle initiation duties, entry passing, and fourth quarter scoring? Goes both ways.. Both players dominated outside of each other so to act like one made the other is a joke.

[Ne 1]

And you seriously don't think that who's on your team affects how you are guarded. That having a peak Shaq didn't draw double and triple teams which left team mates WIDE open.
Kobe's production was legit, the one benefit he had from playing with Shaq aside from winning was that he wasn't the primary focus of the defense, but this is the most important part, and anyone who watched those teams knows this....

Teams weren't playing off of Kobe to double Shaq, the double teams came from the other positions more often than not. Kobe was NOT just getting spoon fed open shots, if anything, he directly created for Shaq more with his penetration. Kobe's points didn't come easily, and he provided more than just scoring.

And what about clutch play and defense? What other perimeter players at the time were as good as Kobe in those areas back then?

[ripthekik]

wow.. the lebron fans are really dumb. so basically all lebron did to get into top 10 was:

-joined another top 3 player and top 5 PF
-win in a WEAK east with Dwight and Rose injured
-beat avg age of 23 year old Thunders

and THATS IT? THat's enough to get someone into top 10 NBA all time? you all must be joking with me.

From now on a guy just has to stack his team, make sure he has the best statistics out of all the stars he joined, n he's going top 10.

People ranking lebron in top 10 is greatly disrespecting guys like Hakeem, Jordan, Kobe, etc who led their own franchise and team to the championship.

[red1]

wow.. the lebron fans are really dumb. so basically all lebron did to get into top 10 was:

-joined another top 3 player and top 5 PF
-win in a WEAK east with Dwight and Rose injured
-beat avg age of 23 year old Thunders

and THATS IT? THat's enough to get someone into top 10 NBA all time? you all must be joking with me.

From now on a guy just has to stack his team, make sure he has the best statistics out of all the stars he joined, n he's going top 10.

People ranking lebron in top 10 is greatly disrespecting guys like Hakeem, Jordan, Kobe, etc who led their own franchise and team to the championship.
Lebron has been better than prime kobe for a few years now. I would say his 2009 2010 2012 and now 2013 season are all better than kobe at his best. How does that make you feel rip, since we now know that all of your bron hate is based on the fact that you love kobe and are trying to prop your idol up and tear down his competitors

[ripthekik]

Lebron has been better than prime kobe for a few years now. I would say his 2009 2010 2012 and now 2013 season are all better than kobe at his best. How does that make you feel rip, since we now know that all of your bron hate is based on the fact that you love kobe and are trying to prop your idol up and tear down his competitors
He was a great regular season performer, as in he got great stats. But that never translated to any championships did it? Dude just doesn't have it in him to get it done, until he has a way-beyond-stacked team.

Anyone can win championships with this team he has. Put any all star in there, they win. So it's not impressive.

[Anaximandro1]

where will LBJ rank all-time? I don't know

playing at a level few have reached+ 4 MVP + 2 FMVP + 2 rings ? really impressive


The only problem is lack of competition:

-injuries to key players in the East (Rose,Rondo...)

-lack of dominant big men in today's NBA

-Durant and Westbrook are still young and they lost Harden

-Duncan and Kobe are too old,but they have a shot at making the All-NBA first team

-and of course,Lebron, Wade and Bosh committed collusion



10 years ago,you had guys like Duncan,Shaq,Kobe,KG,Dirk,Webber playing in the same conference.

20 years ago, you had guys like Robinson,Olajuwon,Barkley,Malone in the West and Jordan and Ewing in the East

the 80s had several Super Teams... there was more competition

[ripthekik]

where will LBJ rank all-time? I don't know

playing at a level few have reached+ 4 MVP + 2 FMVP + 2 rings ? really impressive


The only problem is lack of competition:

-injuries to key players in the East (Rose,Rondo...)

-lack of dominant big men in today's NBA

-Durant and Westbrook are still young and they lost Harden

-Duncan and Kobe are too old,but they have a shot at making the All-NBA first team

-and of course,Lebron, Wade and Bosh committed collusion



10 years ago,you had guys like Duncan,Shaq,Kobe,KG,Dirk,Webber playing in the same conference.

20 years ago, you had guys like Robinson,Olajuwon,Barkley,Malone in the West and Jordan and Ewing in the East

the 80s had several Super Teams... there was more competition
great post.

[LBJFTW]

You can't fault Bron for the competition being injured but you can fault him for giving up on a team just because it wasn't stacked.

[Simple Jack]

Ripthekik where do you rank Moses?

[Deuce Bigalow]

I love dillusional Kobe stans.. Bottom line Lebron is and has been the more complete and dominant player. Kobe for most of his career has been a one trick pony(scorer) not until recently since he realized how much value it addsto his team has he added other areas like passing and rebounding. Obviously getting that from Lebron seeing there are more ways to beat teams and help your own. Kobe has also been a good defender but not as versatile as Lebron either. The only argument anybody can make for Kobe is championships which was part of being on stacked teams plus had Shaq carry him as a sidekick for a few. I am confident in a few years Lebron will be mentioned in most circles at adult table in top 5.
I love delusional Lebron stans

2001 Playoffs: 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 1.6 spg, 0.8 bpg
2003 Season: 30.0 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.2 spg, 0.8 bpg

Led the Lakers in assists in all three championship runs, second in rebounding in 01.

1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

DPOY voting
2000 - 5th
2001 - 11th
2002 - 3rd
2003 - 8th

3x Champion, 5x All-Star, 4x All-NBA Team, 4x All-Defensive Team before Lebron ever played an NBA game.

"Got all round game from Lebron"

:roll:

[ripthekik]

Ripthekik where do you rank Moses?
right behind lebron.

[Simple Jack]

right behind lebron.

Which is where? Gimme ~ number.

[ripthekik]

Which is where? Gimme ~ number.
i have lebron at about 11 or 12. moses behind him. maybe 13~15

[lilgodfather1]

It's like the perennial silver medalist verse the gold medalist. Gold > Silver. Yet Silver > bronze or being unplaced, just as you say. But Jordan in Finals is Gold, nothing else.



This second statement is a joke, 1990's basketball was so much more physical, none of this soft zones and soft D rules. For instance, someone like Chris Bosh would get pulverized.
Yeah Jordan's got 6 gold medals, but in that hypothetical LeBron has 5 gold (4 in a row), and at least 2 silver, which is better than 6 gold.

And look up the stats. I'm not basing my assessment on opinion, or nostalgia, but rather on the facts. This era is better defensively than the past, not an opinion.

[Dbrog]

mmmmmm...realistically just outside top 10ish?

In no order:

Jordan
Shaq
KAJ
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
Hakeem
Kobe
Bird
Magic

would all still be higher ranked. Others debatable IMO

Jerry West
Oscar
KG
Barkley
Moses
I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting

all debatable

[Baller1986]

On top of Kobe and Hakeem.

[Baller1986]

How is Hakeem and Kobe better than LeBron?

4x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 10 years> 1x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 17 years, and 1x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 17 years.

[Breezy]

I have him ranked #1 right now. Another Chip will put him at -4

[ripthekik]

How is Hakeem and Kobe better than LeBron?

4x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 10 years> 1x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 17 years, and 1x NBA MVP, and 2x NBA Finals MVP in 16/17 years.
this faggeeet forgot to mention 5 rings > 2 rings with a stacked team which means nothing.

Hakeem also stayed with his franchise, and single handedly brought his team 2 rings. :applause:

Can't say the same for bron.

[Baller1986]

this faggeeet forgot to mention 5 rings > 2 rings with a stacked team which means nothing.

Hakeem also stayed with his franchise, and single handedly brought his team 2 rings. :applause:

Can't say the same for bron.

Kobe's first championship 3 rings are Pippen rings. Even 1991-93 Pippen put up better overall numbers than Kobe. Pippen was also the better defender.

LeBron was a free agent in 2010. Hakeem won his 2nd NBA Championship with Superstar and 1st runner up in the 1992 MVP Race Clyde Drexler. Houston was barely a playoffs team before Clyde was traded to his new team.

[Ne 1]

this faggeeet forgot to mention 5 rings > 2 rings with a stacked team which means nothing.

Hakeem also stayed with his franchise, and single handedly brought his team 2 rings. :applause:

Can't say the same for bron.

You didn't peep the generic robotic typing? Baller1986 = Lebron23

[Baller1986]

You didn't peep the generic robotic typing? Baller1986 = Lebron23

You are a generic Kobe troll. 1991-93 Pippen was a better Finals performer than 2000-2002 Finals Stats. Just check the Finals Forrest Gump!!!!

[ripthekik]

You didn't peep the generic robotic typing? Baller1986 = Lebron23
Yeap. This loser has 2 of his other accounts banned. He should be getting the hint by now.


Kobe's first championship 3 rings are Pippen rings. Even 1991-93 Pippen put up better overall numbers than Kobe. Pippen was also the better defender.

All Kobe had was Shaq. The team was very dependant on BOTH of them. So if you want to discredit Kobe's first 3 rings like that, then Lebron's first 2 are the same, since he has Wade and Bosh- and also great players like Battier and Ray Allen.

So Lebron's only got 2 of Kobe's first 3 rings.. he's nowhere close, son :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

You are a generic Kobe troll. 1991-93 Pippen was a better Finals performer than 2000-2002 Finals Stats. Just check the Finals Forrest Gump!!!!



Cavs fans are the coolest. I am still going to support the team even though my favorite NBA player signed on another NBA Team.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4573564&postcount=17



LeBron is gonna win an NBA Championship someday. I am still a Cavaliers fan even if LeBron sign with the Bulls, Knicks, or Nets.

http://207.58.151.151/forum/showpost.php?p=4368410&postcount=4


I do not think he will leave Cleveland because he was born and raise in Akron, and giving this team a championship is one of his main goal after he was selected as the first overall pick in the 2003 NBA Draft.


But if ever LBJ change his mind by signing with a Big Market team in the 2010 Season.

I am still supporting the Cleveland Cavaliers because this is my favorite team since 2002, when they drafted Dajuan Wagner as the 6th overall pick in the NBA Draft.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1571505&postcount=13

[Baller1986]

Scottie Pippen ( Bulls 3 peat)

1991 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 45.3 9.4 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Magic Johnson and the Lakers.

1992 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 48.4 FG5, 8.3 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.7 bpg vs. Clyde Drexler and the Blazers

1993 NBA Finals Stats

21.9 ppg on 44 FG%, 9.2 rpg, 7.7 apg, 2.0 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Barkley and the Phoenix Suns


Kobe Bryant ( Lakers 3 peat)

2000 NBA Finals

15.6 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG% vs. a past his prime Reggie Miller and the Pacers.

2001 NBA Finals

24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG. vs. One man scoring Machine Allen Iverson and the Sixers.


2002 NBA Finals

25.5, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG vs. Jason "40 FG%" Kidd, and the overachieving New Jersey Nets.

[Ne 1]

.......

LeBron23 profile biography
Age:
26



Rebecca Black thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6198684&postcount=47

Comment by Lebron23 on 7-20-11

Rebecca Black
Born June 21, 1997
Age: 14 years old on 7-20-11


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/143102_o.gif

[Baller1986]

LeBron23 profile biography
Age:
26



Rebecca Black thread.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6198684&postcount=47

Comment by Lebron23 on 7-20-11

Rebecca Black
Born June 21, 1997
Age: 14 years old on 7-20-11


http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/143102_o.gif

http://i.imgflip.com/1m94.jpg

[NumberSix]

Scottie Pippen ( Bulls 3 peat)

1991 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 45.3 9.4 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Magic Johnson and the Lakers.

1992 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 48.4 FG5, 8.3 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.7 bpg vs. Clyde Drexler and the Blazers

1993 NBA Finals Stats

21.9 ppg on 44 FG%, 9.2 rpg, 7.7 apg, 2.0 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Barkley and the Phoenix Suns


Kobe Bryant ( Lakers 3 peat)

2000 NBA Finals

15.6 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG% vs. a past his prime Reggie Miller and the Pacers.

2001 NBA Finals

24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG. vs. One man scoring Machine Allen Iverson and the Sixers.


2002 NBA Finals

25.5, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG vs. Jason "40 FG%" Kidd, and the overachieving New Jersey Nets.

Not to mention that Kobe can't sniff Pippen's ball-hairs on the defensive end. Scottie is a better finals performer. There's no way around it.

[Ne 1]

I am only 10 years older than Rebecca Black. 16 is the age of consent in Ms. Black's state.

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:


http://pysih.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/i-see-a-pedo.jpg

[ripthekik]

I am only 10 years older than Rebecca Black. 16 is the age of consent in Ms. Black's state.

:rockon: :rockon: :rockon:
she was 14 when you said you wanted to have sex with her.
Yo lebron23, why are your 2 other accounts banned?

[Baller1986]

she was 14 when you said you wanted to have sex with her.
Yo lebron23, why are your 2 other accounts banned?

I didn't say that. Stop ruining this thread. It sucks that a 28 yrs.old will be rank higher than 17 yrs. NBA veteran Kobe if he wins his 2nd NBA Finals MVP.

[Baller1986]

Not to mention that Kobe can't sniff Pippen's ball-hairs on the defensive end. Scottie is a better finals performer. There's no way around it.


Pippen also effectively guarded Magic Johnson, Clyde Drexler, and Charles Barkley in the NBA Finals.

[Ne 1]

What's your religion?

:confusedshrug: I'm not religious.

[ripthekik]

LMAO, Baller1986, aka Lebron23 has been roasted by posters since 2007

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39108&page=7

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by JalenRawley (to Baller1986)
See, people like myself don

[Baller1986]

:confusedshrug: I'm not religious.


Good for you.

[ripthekik]

You are Phong. JalenRawley (The poster) is dead. He suffered a heart attack back in the 2011 NBA Playoffs. Heat eliminated the Bulls in 5 games. LBJ shutdown his favorite player in the conference Finals.
after being exposed again, this is all you got? changing the topic and spewing a few more random sentences out of nowhere? :roll: :roll: :roll:

yo, how much more accounts you got man? and how the hell do people hate you even on your previous account :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Bernie Nips]

If that were to happen, I'd probably go:

1. Jordan
2. Bird
3. Kareem
4. Magic
5. Russell
6. Wilt
7. Shaq
8. LeBron
9. Hakeem
10. Duncan
11. Kobe

[Baller1986]

Good post by Bernietips. You are like 10-15 years younger than ripthekik, you already surpass him.

[tgan3]

top 10 for sure. As another poster said, win another one and maybe top 5.

Of course Lebron is still pretty young. If he ends up with at least 6 championships, I definitely could see GOAT discussion.

[Myth]

He will undoubtedly be in my top 383 players of all time.

[Sheik1287]

If he wins another ring this season I'd say:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
11. Lebron

[Soundwave]

*If* he wins it this year he'll surpass Hakeem and Kobe IMO, because of his greater individual resume combined with the championships.

[gengiskhan]

Scottie Pippen ( Bulls 3 peat)

1991 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 45.3 9.4 rpg, 6.6 apg, 2.4 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Magic Johnson and the Lakers.

1992 NBA Finals Stats

20.8 ppg on 48.4 FG5, 8.3 rpg, 7.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.7 bpg vs. Clyde Drexler and the Blazers

1993 NBA Finals Stats

21.9 ppg on 44 FG%, 9.2 rpg, 7.7 apg, 2.0 spg, and 1.0 bpg vs. Barkley and the Phoenix Suns


Kobe Bryant ( Lakers 3 peat)

2000 NBA Finals

15.6 PPG, 5 RPG, 4 APG, 1.4 BPG, 36% FG% vs. a past his prime Reggie Miller and the Pacers.

2001 NBA Finals

24 PPG, 8 RPG, 6 APG, 1.4 BPG, 44/106 41% FG. vs. One man scoring Machine Allen Iverson and the Sixers.


2002 NBA Finals

25.5, 5.75 RPG, 5 APG, .75 BPG, 36/70 51% FG vs. Jason "40 FG%" Kidd, and the overachieving New Jersey Nets.

Kobe is so PATHETIC as 2nd fiddle. He couldn't even shoot 45%FG vs AI & the sixers. one of the worse finalist ever in NBA history.

Kobe wasnt even DOUBLE TEAMED.

[Greg Oden 50]

top 15 if he wins another rings this year :banana:

[bizil]

Arguably at the end of this season, Bron could be the GOAT SF is he wins another ring! I know that's a bitter pill to swallow for many because you think it's too early for that. But u gotta realize Bron would have 4 regular season MVPs (Im assuming he's winning this year), two rings, most likely two finals MVPs, nearly just as many career points, etc. All of this is enough to argue Bron over Bird GOAT wise, especially when Bron is one of the very, very, very few guys at SF (maybe the only one) u can argue is better than Bird's peak value. So Bron in my book could be possibly be as high as number 7 or 8 GOAT wise with another ring. I love Bird's game, but many people ALWAYS assume Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan rate behind Bird GOAT wise. If anything, u could JUST as easily argue all three of them over Bird GOAT wise as well. Frankly, Bird on my list might actually be the number 10 GOAT very soon.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron most definitely passed Hakeem with another title/MVP. Don't fool yourselves. Hakeem was a monster, but for some reason people like to overrate the s.hit out of him. KG is going to be the same way in 10 seasons.

[Ne 1]

LeBron most definitely passed Hakeem with another title/MVP. Don't fool yourselves. Hakeem was a monster, but for some reason people like to overrate the s.hit out of him. KG is going to be the same way in 10 seasons.
Sorry, but Hakeem was just a better player. Hakeem is probably the best player of the past 25-30 years other than MJ. He could carry your offense in the post, create looks for the shooters with his passing out of double teams, play effectively 15-20 feet from the basket if necessary by facing up and shooting or driving, and his defense was unbelievable. Whether it was defending screen/rolls, blocking shots or even later, his post defense. He was the best defensive player of the past 30 years. His ability late in games offensively was rivaled only by Kareem among centers, and very few have had the ability to raise their play so consistently in big games, and this started even early in Hakeem's career (see 1986-1988 playoffs).

[pauk]

If he wins another ring this season I'd say:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Duncan
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
11. Lebron

Nah, love Hakeem and all that... but you would have to be to much of a Lebron hater to disregard 4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs, 2 Rings etc. and the peak/domination/numbers/milestones he has in context while piling up those accolades, that is just to much for what Hakeem has accomplished unfortunately (go ahead and compare)..... and unfortunately is also to much to ignore a debate/argument for his case to be ranked higher than Kobe, Duncan, Shaq AND Bird....... and he is only 28...

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nah, love Hakeem and all that... but 4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs, 2 Rings and the peak/domination/numbers/milestones he has in context while piling up those accolades is just to much for what Hakeem has accomplished unfortunately.....
Back to back rings with Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Ortis Thorpe, Sam Cassell, ect as your best teammates is better than a ring in a lockout year with D-Wade and Chris Bosh and plus an imaginary ring.

[Ken_Force_One]

1. Jordan
2. Lebron (King) James
3. Kobe

Rings are a team statistic.

Lebron will get another Regular Season MVP and a Finals MVP.

[Greg Oden 50]

Nah, love Hakeem and all that... but you would have to be to much of a Lebron hater to disregard 4 MVPs, 2 FMVPs, 2 Rings etc. and the peak/domination/numbers/milestones he has in context while piling up those accolades, that is just to much for what Hakeem has accomplished unfortunately (go ahead and compare)..... and unfortunately is also to much to ignore a debate/argument for his case to be ranked higher than Kobe, Duncan, Shaq AND Bird....... and he is only 28...

hakeem is far more domninat as lebron in 2 peats :no:

[Deuce Bigalow]

1. Jordan
2. Lebron (King) James
3. Kobe

Rings are a team statistic.

Lebron will get another Regular Season MVP and a Finals MVP.
Winning an MVP or Finals MVP doesn't require any team help. They just hand those awards to players just for putting up good stats and winning 30 games. I mean its not like your team has to win 55, 60, 65+ games to win the MVP, or win the NBA championship to get the FMVP, they could give you the FMVP for not even making the Playoffs.

[dh144498]

IF lebrick wins another mvp and fmvp this year, then he'll finally crack the list of top 30 players of all time. :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:

bow for the King, finally getting to the top 30.

[KingBeasley08]

With another ring he'd be Top 10 all time easy

[pauk]

Back to back rings with Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Ortis Thorpe, Sam Cassell, ect as your best teammates is better than a ring in a lockout year with D-Wade and Chris Bosh and plus an imaginary ring.

Lebrons playoff run was very impressive, yes D-Wade/Bosh are nice names and all that but what did they do and what else did Lebron have.... and yes Hakeem didnt have any such star next to him, but he had a deeper team with perfectly complementary players.... Lebron didnt have a deep team like that, he had Bosh/Wade (where as one was injured in the playoffs and/or played injured with his 14 ppg, Bosh and other being inconsistant with his 22 ppg) and that was IT.......... Hakeems teammates also produced more PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/BPG than what Lebrons teammates did.... so what do nice names such as D-Wade/Bosh matter when they dont produce?? Basketball is not 3 vs 3....

If they are so good then why did Lebron have to have one of the 10 best playoff runs in NBA history? Lebron CARRIED that team, offensively, defensively, in the clutch, i recommend you rewind and watch that playoff run very carefully..... and if i assume he gets another one in similar or better fashion, accompanied with the rest of his accolades... then Hakeem has absolutely ZERO case to be ranked over Lebron....

...its impossible to push your Lebron hating agenda against something like this:

...........................Lebron.............Hake em.........
MVP.........................4..................... .1..............
Championship...........2......................2... ...........
FMVP.......................2...................... 2..............
ROTY.......................Yes...................N o.............
1st All-NBA................7......................6....... .......
1st All-Defensive........5......................5......... .....
All-Star.....................9......................12 ............
DPOY........................0..................... .2..............
Best player?...............4+ years...........2 years......
All-Star MVP...............2......................0........ ......
PPG.........................28.................... .22.............
RPG..........................7.................... ..11............
APG..........................7.................... ....3............
SPG...........................2................... ....2............
BPG...........................1................... .....3............
PER...................27.6 (#2 all-time).......23.6 (#15 all-time)

Lebron was a more dominant and more productive player in the league, while also having better accolades...................

...and Lebron certainly didnt need to have the best player in the world (Jordan) retired for 2 years to get his championship or be honored as the best player in the world because of it.... because no matter who was in the league from this planet/universe HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD (and for much longer)...........

So what the hell can you say?

Enough with your agenda, please, just say "I hate Lebron, am butthurt he is this good, dont want him to be ranked over LESSER ACCOMPLISHED PLAYERS"............. its THAT obvious............. its like talking to a brick wall, i cant change your mind, you are blinded with your Lebron hatred, these facts above certainly wont change your mind either funny enough.... so i dont even know why i am talking to you....

[Deuce Bigalow]

Lebrons playoff run was very impressive, yes D-Wade/Bosh are nice names and all that but what did they do and what else did Lebron have.... and yes Hakeem didnt have any such star next to him, but he had a deeper team with perfectly complementary players.... Lebron didnt have a deep team like that, he had Bosh/Wade (where as one was injured in the playoffs and/or played injured with his 14 ppg, Bosh and other being inconsistant with his 22 ppg) and that was IT.......... Hakeems teammates also produced more PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/BPG than what Lebrons teammates did.... so what do nice names such as D-Wade/Bosh matter when they dont produce?? Basketball is not 3 vs 3....

If they are so good then why did Lebron have to have one of the 10 best playoff runs in NBA history? Lebron CARRIED that team, offensively, defensively, in the clutch, i recommend you rewind and watch that playoff run very carefully..... and if i assume he gets another one in similar or better fashion, accompanied with the rest of his accolades... then Hakeem has absolutely ZERO case to be ranked over Lebron....

...its impossible to push your Lebron hating agenda against something like this:

...........................Lebron.............Hake em.........
MVP.........................4..................... .1..............
Championship...........2......................2... ...........
FMVP.......................2...................... 2..............
ROTY.......................Yes...................N o.............
1st All-NBA................7......................6....... .......
1st All-Defensive........5......................5......... .....
All-Star.....................9......................12 ............
DPOY........................0..................... .2..............
Best player?...............4+ years...........2 years......
All-Star MVP...............2......................0........ ......
PPG.........................28.................... .22.............
RPG..........................7.................... ..11............
APG..........................7.................... ....3............
SPG...........................2................... ....2............
BPG...........................1................... .....3............
PER...................27.6 (#2 all-time).......23.6 (#15 all-time)

Lebron was a more dominant and more productive player in the league, while also having better accolades...................

...and Lebron certainly didnt need to have the best player in the world (Jordan) retired for 2 years to get his championship or be honored as the best player in the world because of it.... because no matter who was in the league from this planet/universe HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD (and for much longer)...........

So what the hell can you say?

Enough with your agenda, please, just say "I hate Lebron, am butthurt he is this good, dont want him to be ranked over LESSER ACCOMPLISHED PLAYERS"............. its THAT obvious............. its like talking to a brick wall, i cant change your mind, you are blinded with your Lebron hatred, these facts above certainly wont change your mind either funny enough.... so i dont even know why i am talking to you....
Rank Hakeem over Lebron = Lebron hating agenda...

Hakeem has 2 rings that were both some of the alltime great runs. Lebron, adding this imaginary title would equal 2 titles. 2 titles that are not as great as Hakeem's. Hakeem carried his team to back to back rings and didnt have to go team up with other stars to win one. He also never was exposed as a choker like Lebron was in 2011. Has Hakeem ever been owned by a bench player like Lebron? Hakeem at least played like a man in the 86 Finals when he ran into the Bird Celtics, competition Lebron never faced in his finals years. Hakeem is also regarded as one of if not the best defender in NBA history. But according to Mr. I have Lebron's **** in my ass, it's not even debatable LMAO.

[Greg Oden 50]

Lebrons playoff run was very impressive, yes D-Wade/Bosh are nice names and all that but what did they do and what else did Lebron have.... and yes Hakeem didnt have any such star next to him, but he had a deeper team with perfectly complementary players.... Lebron didnt have a deep team like that, he had Bosh/Wade (where as one was injured in the playoffs and/or played injured with his 14 ppg, Bosh and other being inconsistant with his 22 ppg) and that was IT.......... Hakeems teammates also produced more PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/BPG than what Lebrons teammates did.... so what do nice names such as D-Wade/Bosh matter when they dont produce?? Basketball is not 3 vs 3....

If they are so good then why did Lebron have to have one of the 10 best playoff runs in NBA history? Lebron CARRIED that team, offensively, defensively, in the clutch, i recommend you rewind and watch that playoff run very carefully..... and if i assume he gets another one in similar or better fashion, accompanied with the rest of his accolades... then Hakeem has absolutely ZERO case to be ranked over Lebron....

...its impossible to push your Lebron hating agenda against something like this:

...........................Lebron.............Hake em.........
MVP.........................4..................... .1..............
Championship...........2......................2... ...........
FMVP.......................2...................... 2..............
ROTY.......................Yes...................N o.............
1st All-NBA................7......................6....... .......
1st All-Defensive........5......................5......... .....
All-Star.....................9......................12 ............
DPOY........................0..................... .2..............
Best player?...............4+ years...........2 years......
All-Star MVP...............2......................0........ ......
PPG.........................28.................... .22.............
RPG..........................7.................... ..11............
APG..........................7.................... ....3............
SPG...........................2................... ....2............
BPG...........................1................... .....3............
PER...................27.6 (#2 all-time).......23.6 (#15 all-time)

Lebron was a more dominant and more productive player in the league, while also having better accolades...................

...and Lebron certainly didnt need to have the best player in the world (Jordan) retired for 2 years to get his championship or be honored as the best player in the world because of it.... because no matter who was in the league from this planet/universe HE WAS THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD (and for much longer)...........

So what the hell can you say?

Enough with your agenda, please, just say "I hate Lebron, am butthurt he is this good, dont want him to be ranked over LESSER ACCOMPLISHED PLAYERS"............. its THAT obvious............. its like talking to a brick wall, i cant change your mind, you are blinded with your Lebron hatred, these facts above certainly wont change your mind either funny enough.... so i dont even know why i am talking to you....

hakeem dominant on both end,and lebron plays in a era without any decent center :banana: dwight is not even as gd as alonzo and he is named the best ceter in this era :roll:

[Magic 32]

http://theconsigliori.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Overconfidence.jpg

[KingBeasley08]

Lebron will def be higher than Hakeem if he wins another rings. Just more accomplishments and more dominant player. If he wins one more after that, he'll be top 7-8. Anything after that is just preparation for a top 5 all time placement :rockon:

[TheAnchorman]

Lebron would be higher than Hakeem. Lebron has been the NBA's best all-around player for a few years now starting in 2009 (maybe Kobe better here)/2010. When you have been the unequivocal best player in the league for that long, no arguments, that is a strong argument for top 10 if he adds a ring on top of that.

[GOBB_Junior]

Lebron will def be higher than Hakeem if he wins another rings. Just more accomplishments and more dominant player. If he wins one more after that, he'll be top 7-8. Anything after that is just preparation for a top 5 all time placement :rockon:


He will also definitely be rank higher than Kobe if he average at least 30 ppg on 50 FG%, 8 rpg, and 8 apg in his 4th NBA Finals Appearance.

[riseagainst]

lebron is already top 7. If he wins mvp and fmvp this year, he'll easily be top 5.