Lebron James's ability to play with Stars

[Joey3000]

If Lebron James ends up G.OAT (wake up, he is well on the path) it

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He will NEVER be GOAT, though. As Johnny Sack from the Sopranos once said, 'That ship... has sailed.'

[Foster5k]

He'll never be considered the G.O.A.T.

Michael Jordan will always hold that title. You can't lose in the NBA Finals TWICE and eclispe the great one, which is Jordan.

Lebron is a super star player for the ages. His skill is undeniable. He is a freak of nature. He is the king.

But

He still falls short to Michael Jordan. The greatest of all time. Jordan was just that good.(Also, never backed out of a dunk contest....)

[j3lademaster]

You don't think Larry Bird would have been better at managing talent than Lebron? Wasn't nearly as ball dominant. Bird knew what he wanted to do before he gets the ball and made all his plays within 3 seconds of having possession. Bill Russel (from hearsay) will probably be better than Lebron from this aspect as well.

[Budadiiii]

People need to drop this LeBron GOAT thing. It's ****ing ridiculous.

Can you imagine if ISH was around throughout Jordan's career? Dude would be a God.

You can say he's the most naturally gifted player of all time, but he has no where near the mental fortitude to surpass Jordan. It's not even close.

Drop it.

[ripthekik]

lmao.. how about it's because he CAN ONLY succeed while playing next to stars?

too easy, too easy :oldlol:

[Foster5k]

[QUOTE=Joey3000]LBJ is on the right path, and when he ends up with a whole bunch of rings, [b]it won

[Bandito]

[QUOTE=Joey3000]If Lebron James ends up G.OAT (wake up, he is well on the path) it

[LBJ 23]

Stop reading right there:facepalm Most retarded thread ever!

Yea, same here. Was taking OP serious until I saw ''NBA 2k argument''. Then I just :facepalm

[All Net]

lmao.. how about it's because he CAN ONLY succeed while playing next to stars?

too easy, too easy :oldlol:

Nobody can succeed without playing with stars...MJ included.

[Joey3000]

He'll never be considered the G.O.A.T.

Michael Jordan will always hold that title. You can't lose in the NBA Finals TWICE and eclispe the great one, which is Jordan.

Lebron is a super star player for the ages. His skill is undeniable. He is a freak of nature. He is the king.

But

He still falls short to Michael Jordan. The greatest of all time. Jordan was just that good.(Also, never backed out of a dunk contest....)

James went to the finals for the first time at a very young age (23). He was not in his prime, and lead a team not nearly as good as the chicago bulls. Infact that team was not even a playoff team with out a young james.

Lebron is now 29 and about to get his second title. How old was MJ when he got his second title? wasnt he about 29 also? Exactly.

[ripthekik]

Nobody can succeed without playing with stars...MJ included.
how about


how about it's because he CAN ONLY succeed while playing next to TWO stars?

[Joey3000]

lmao.. how about it's because he CAN ONLY succeed while playing next to stars?

too easy, too easy :oldlol:

No thats too easy.

[Joey3000]

Stop reading right there:facepalm Most retarded thread ever!


My point was thats its human nature to want to be the best. even if it means drafting a guy like Ray Allen over Kobe to play alongside yourself.

[Foster5k]

James went to the finals for the first time at a very young age (23). He was not in his prime, and lead a team not nearly as good as the chicago bulls. Infact that team was not even a playoff team with out a young james.

Lebron is now 29 and about to get his second title. How old was MJ when he got his second title? wasnt he about 29 also? Exactly.
What about 2011 when he layed an egg versus the Mavs? The Greatest of All Time doesn't do that.

[tobethdope]

Lebron is now 29 and about to get his second title. How old was MJ when he got his second title? wasnt he about 29 also? Exactly.

yes, and if he never loses a series again while winning 5 more rings we can start the goat discussion

[Joey3000]

What about 2011 when he layed an egg versus the Mavs? The Greatest of All Time doesn't do that.

Nobody called him the Greatest of all time. He has G.O.A.T talent but does not have the achievements.

Why turn this into a MJ vs LBJ arguement? The point is he can coexist with others. Thats a strong point, whether u guys accept that or not.

[Joey3000]

yes, and if he never loses a series again while winning 5 more rings we can start the goat discussion


I never started a GOAT discusion.

[All Net]

how about

We don't know that he couldn't just win with one star...but we do know he made the finals with just role players.

[Overdrive]

Nobody can succeed without playing with stars...MJ included.

Hakeem..


James went to the finals for the first time at a very young age (23). He was not in his prime, and lead a team not nearly as good as the chicago bulls. Infact that team was not even a playoff team with out a young james.

Lebron is now 29 and about to get his second title. How old was MJ when he got his second title? wasnt he about 29 also? Exactly.

His first finals were a bonus. Not winning meant nothing negative, but the 2011 Finals will always prevent him from being GOAT.

Regarding your 2k point(aside from its stupidity): Create an SF and get drafted by the Lakers..

Drexler and Pippen never played on the same team.

[Joey3000]

OK lets look at it this way. U have this team:

Shaq
Garnett
Kobe
Chris Paul.

Who do u add, MJ or Lebron?

here is another one:

Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Pierce

Who do u add? Kobe or Lebron?

[ripthekik]

.but we do know he made the finals with just role players.
well, plenty of players have done that. Beyond that, no ring is no ring.


We don't know that he couldn't just win with one star..
well we know he can only win with 2 stars in their primes.. until he proves us wrong..

I personally would be very glad to see him prove me wrong.

[ripthekik]

OK lets look at it this way. U have this team:

Shaq
Garnett
Kobe
Chris Paul.

Who do u add, MJ or Lebron?

here is another one:

Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Pierce

Who do u add? Kobe or Lebron?
Both teams win the ring in any league. there is no difference.

[Joey3000]

The point is LBJ has a unique gift that allows him to coexist. Very few people of his talent level can coexist and people see that as a negative. He is gunna ride that talent to multiple titles and all you will be able to say is stupid things like "He couldnt do it alone".

Yet you will ignore that his peers couldnt addapt to playing with other great players.

[Joey3000]

Both teams win the ring in any league. there is no difference.


Based on what? Yeah they are talented, but can they coexist?

Before the season started everybody was on the Lakers championship boat. Now I know they are unhealthy, but the other situation that we cant ignor is that they cant coexist.

[ripthekik]

The point is LBJ has a unique gift that allows him to coexist. Very few people of his talent level can coexist and people see that as a negative. He is gunna ride that talent to multiple titles and all you will be able to say is stupid things like "He couldnt do it alone".

Yet you will ignore that his peers couldnt addapt to playing with other great players.
He has a unique gift to only win when coexisting with two stars. few people of his talent level need to coexist with two more stars to win. he is gonna ride those talents to multiple titles and we will say he couldnt do it alone.

[longtime lurker]

Yes he has the GOAT ability to stack his team to ensure he faces the least amount of competition.

[red1]

He has a unique gift to only win when coexisting with two stars. few people of his talent level need to coexist with two more stars to win. he is gonna ride those talents to multiple titles and we will say he couldnt do it alone.
still better than your kobe

[ripthekik]

still better than your kobe
the kobe that dropped 81 points on your raptors? ok.

[All Net]

He has a unique gift to only win when coexisting with two stars. few people of his talent level need to coexist with two more stars to win. he is gonna ride those talents to multiple titles and we will say he couldnt do it alone.

haters will hate no matter how idiotic it is..

[jlip]

I haven't read one post in this thread beyond the OP, so I don't know if I'm repeating anything. But concerning the ability to play with other stars, Russell, Magic, and Bird scream, "Hellooooo!"

[Joey3000]

Let me dumb it down for u a little more since u cant grasp my point.


Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Lebron
Paul

would defeat a team of

Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Jordan
Paul

Not because LBJ is a better individual player. But because LBJ would make every player on that stacked team better than MJ could make them.

Will MJ still be more clutch than Lebron? yes. But Bird would easily match MJ's clutchness with LBJ's support.

Shaq is a better Shaq with LBJ than Jordan.

Same for Hakeem.

Chris paul would still be involved in the offense with LBJ, where he would tuirn into a spot up shooter with that much talent on a team lead by MJ.

R u getting the point yet?

[nashwade]

all he needs is to win more rings than MJ and he automatically rises above his Airness

[Haymaker]

Let me dumb it down for u a little more since u cant grasp my point.


Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Lebron
Paul

would defeat a team of

Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Jordan
Paul

Not because LBJ is a better individual player. But because LBJ would make every player on that stacked team better than MJ could make them.

Will MJ still be more clutch than Lebron? yes. But Bird would easily match MJ's clutchness with LBJ's support.

Shaq is a better Shaq with LBJ than Jordan.

Same for Hakeem.

Chris paul would still be involved in the offense with LBJ, where he would tuirn into a spot up shooter with that much talent on a team lead by MJ.

R u getting the point it?

Your logic is flawed since every player would cancel each other's advantage and all you're left with is a MJ vs LBJ match up.

[DatAsh]

OK lets look at it this way. U have this team:

Shaq
Garnett
Kobe
Chris Paul.

Who do u add, MJ or Lebron?


Jordan would be a much better fit for that team because of his off ball play. Lebron would severely limit Kobe and Paul's game who's strengths come from playing on ball. There's only one basketball, and I'm confident that team would be a lot better with Jordan in place of Lebron.


here is another one:

Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Pierce

Who do u add? Kobe or Lebron?

That team doesn't have a PG so I'd go with Lebron in that situation. Pierce and Bird are capable of playing off the ball.

[red1]

the kobe that dropped 81 points on your raptors? ok.
you need to get off both players' jocks

[Joey3000]

Your logic is flawed since every player would cancel each other's advantage and all you're left with is a MJ vs LBJ match up.


No because I wanted it to come to a showdown between mj and LBJ. The point is yes, MJ is the better individuel player, but LBJ is the better team player. And that ascpect of greatness is often overlooked.

[DatAsh]

I haven't read one post in this thread beyond the OP, so I don't know if I'm repeating anything. But concerning the ability to play with other stars, Russell, Magic, and Bird scream, "Hellooooo!"

This thread is almost ironic in my opinion. I'd almost say Lebron's inability to mesh with other all time greats - because of his need to dominate the ball - is one of his biggest weaknesses. He's gotten a lot better these past couple of years though, so I'm more hesitant to say that now than I would have been in 2011.

[PrettyCool]

OP is retarded.

[ripthekik]

No because I wanted it to come to a showdown between mj and LBJ. The point is yes, MJ is the better individuel player, but LBJ is the better team player. And that ascpect of greatness is often overlooked.
It's flawed, because I can also ask you

Center
Center
Center
Center

Which guy would benefit this team as the 5th man more, Shaq or Chris Paul?
Obviously Chris Paul would. But Shaq's still the better player.

[Joey3000]

Its says alot when mods have to change the title from:

"If Lebron ends up G.O.A.T its due to one reason"

to

"Lebron James's ability to play with Stars"

They changed it to calm down all the fanatics who are not open to trying to understand a statement. You guys are so blinded by the *** jordan left in your eyes to recognize possible the best team player since Magic.

Let me help you guys a littlebit.

Would a faster, stronger, more athletic Magic Johnson have a chance of being the G.O.A.T? Well thats what LBJ is.

[DatAsh]

Would a faster, stronger, more athletic Magic Johnson have a chance of being the G.O.A.T?

Of course, but that's not what Lebron is. Lebron does have a chance at being the best ever one day though.


Well thats what LBJ is.
I disagree.

[All Net]

Its says alot when mods have to change the title from:

"If Lebron ends up G.O.A.T its due to one reason"

to

"Lebron James's ability to play with Stars"

They changed it to calm down all the fanatics who are not open to trying to understand a statement. You guys are so blinded by the *** jordan left in your eyes to recognize possible the best team player since Magic.

Let me help you guys a littlebit.

Would a faster, stronger, more athletic Magic Johnson have a chance of being the G.O.A.T? Well thats what LBJ is.

It was changed because the subject line had nothing to do with what he was talking about..and even stated he doesn't think he is GOAT or will be.

[Joey3000]

It's flawed, because I can also ask you

Center
Center
Center
Center

Which guy would benefit this team as the 5th man more, Shaq or Chris Paul?
Obviously Chris Paul would. But Shaq's still the better player.


:oldlol:

Now you are getting desperate.

ok lets play you little game:

Shaq
Duncan
David Robinson,
Hakeem.

You do you add to that team? Paul or LBJ?

The answer... LBJ would bring everything Paul brings along with better defense.

[Joey3000]

It was changed because the subject line had nothing to do with what he was talking about..and even stated he doesn't think he is GOAT or will be.


No, I created the topic and I did say he is not G.O.A.T but I do think that he is the first person on the right path to surpassing MJ as G.O.A.T. Hence the title "If LBJ ends up GOAT.

[Joey3000]

Of course, but that's not what Lebron is. Lebron does have a chance at being the best ever one day though.


I disagree.

Ok compare Magic and LBJ for me?

[Overdrive]

Would a faster, stronger, more athletic Magic Johnson have a chance of being the G.O.A.T? Well thats what LBJ is.

No, he definately is not. Magic would feed players on their sweetspots, know exactly were everyone would have the best chance to score. That's why it wouldn't matter if he scored 15 or 25 ppg he'd still get his 10-13 assists and the team would score equally. If Lebron decides to drop his scoring for 5 more apg the team wouldn't benefit as much, because James creates space for his teammates by his scoring.

[Haymaker]

Bron is a good passer but he isn't half as good as Magic was. Most of his passes come from kick outs, and he depends on solid 3 pt shooters for that. Magic had an unbelievable court vision and could pass from the post, in transition and could kick out the ball ass well.

[Joey3000]

No, he definately is not. Magic would feed players on their sweetspots, know exactly were everyone would have the best chance to score. That's why it wouldn't matter if he scored 15 or 25 ppg he'd still get his 10-13 assists and the team would score equally. If Lebron decides to drop his scoring for 5 more apg the team wouldn't benefit as much, because James creates space for his teammates by his scoring.


So the concept of LBJ being compared to Magic is new here? He is only compared to Magic when it

[Joey3000]

Bron is a good passer but he isn't half as good as Magic was. Most of his passes come from kick outs, and he depends on solid 3 pt shooters for that. Magic had an unbelievable court vision and could pass from the post, in transition and could kick out the ball ass well.


LBJ is an amazing passer. Great court vision, and never have I seen so many full court passes/Ally's in 1 season. All his pass are on the mark and to try and take his passing ability away to make ur arguement is silly.

Was Magic a better passer? ofcourse an arguement can be made for that. But is Magic ranks a 10 at passing, LBJ is an 8.5.

[Ikill]

What? Wade and Bosh are the ones that have completely changed their games to fit with Lebron not the way other way around. The only players that thrive playing with Lebron are shooters or limited role players. This is actually what i feel Lebrons biggest flaw is he can only play one way (lebron ball). His teammates/coaching staff have completely changed the system to revolve around Lebrons game.

[Overdrive]

[QUOTE=Joey3000]So the concept of LBJ being compared to Magic is new here? He is only compared to Magic when it

[Joey3000]

It's not to disregard Lebron, but he's no PG like Magic. Some people make him out to be that, but I just don't agree. He's neither a scorer/shooter like MJ. He's kind off in between. Basically his Magic traits live by his MJ traits, but none are as developed as the original. That doesn't mean he cannot overtake Magic in the GOAT rankings. I just don't see him overtake MJ. His '11 Finals just showed that he's not as good mentally and that he cannot play with other superstars from the get-go. Especially not in a Magic Johnson way, because that's basically what he was trying to do, in a very passive way, in said finals series.


He cant play with other superstars from the get-go? They went to the finals while still trying to figure out his team it is. Once they all agreed its LBJ's team they won it all.

I dont see how going to the finals ur first year together is a blemish on his carear.

[Ikill]

It's not to disregard Lebron, but he's no PG like Magic. Some people make him out to be that, but I just don't agree. He's neither a scorer/shooter like MJ. He's kind off in between. Basically his Magic traits live by his MJ traits, but none are as developed as the original. That doesn't mean he cannot overtake Magic in the GOAT rankings. I just don't see him overtake MJ. His '11 Finals just showed that he's not as good mentally and that he cannot play with other superstars from the get-go. Especially not in a Magic Johnson way, because that's basically what he was trying to do, in a very passive way, in said finals series.
Lebron is a pg he's a scoring pg a bigger Rose/Westbrook

[DatAsh]

[QUOTE=Joey3000]So the concept of LBJ being compared to Magic is new here? He is only compared to Magic when it

[Joey3000]

What? Wade and Bosh are the ones that have completely changed their games to fit with Lebron not the way other way around. The only players that thrive playing with Lebron are shooters or limited role players. This is actually what i feel Lebrons biggest flaw is he can only play one way (lebron ball). His teammates/coaching staff have completely changed the system to revolve around Lebrons game.


OK fine. Now would Wade be as willing to take a step back for a guy like Kobe? Not in your wildest dreams. He got Wade to buy into what you just refered to as "Lebron James Ball". How do u get a guy who many concidered to be batman over your robin to switch roles?

Again.. If LBJ ends up G.O.A.T it will be due to his ability to play along side other superstars.

[DatAsh]

Was Magic a better passer? ofcourse an arguement can be made for that.

...

[ripthekik]

OK lets look at it this way. U have this team:

Shaq
Garnett
Kobe
Chris Paul.

Who do u add, MJ or Lebron?

Actually you know what. It's more beneficial to that team to add someone like Battier. Who doesn't need the ball on offense, can shoot the three, and can help defend the other team's star. This also allows the other 4 stars of the team to shine more, their usage goes up.

If lebron plays, he'll hold the ball in his hands most of the time. The other guys won't play up to their potential.. it'll be a disaster.

So yeah.. fail..

[Magic 32]

What ability?

He killed the Heat stone cold dead in 2011, and the team only started winning when everyone else subordinated to him, and accepted him as the alpha dog of the team.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/30453803.jpg

[Ikill]

OK fine. Now would Wade be as willing to take a step back for a guy like Kobe? Not in your wildest dreams. He got Wade to buy into what you just refered to as "Lebron James Ball". How do u get a guy who many concidered to be batman over your robin to switch roles?

Again.. If LBJ ends up G.O.A.T it will be due to his ability to play along side other superstars.
He wouldn't need to step back if he played with Kobe their games would fit better

[shaq2000]

Let me dumb it down for u a little more since u cant grasp my point.


Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Lebron
Paul

would defeat a team of

Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Jordan
Paul

http://i.imgur.com/PgoMvwb.gif

[Joey3000]

Actually you know what. It's more beneficial to that team to add someone like Battier. Who doesn't need the ball on offense, can shoot the three, and can help defend the other team's star. This also allows the other 4 stars of the team to shine more, their usage goes up.

If lebron plays, he'll hold the ball in his hands most of the time. The other guys won't play up to their potential.. it'll be a disaster.

So yeah.. fail..


Soooo u are saying a team with Battier would be more succesfull than a team with Lebron?

Is this what it has come to? Are we this ignorant and blind? No team, no matter the make up would be better with battier than LBJ.

So yeah.... Fail.

[Joey3000]

OK now that u ran out of arguements, here comes the gifs.

[ripthekik]

Soooo u are saying a team with Battier would be more succesfull than a team with Lebron?

Is this what it has come to? Are we this ignorant and blind? No team, no matter the make up would be better with battier than LBJ.

So yeah.... Fail.
Because it's not about throwing a team full of stars together. That doesn't work. When have you seen lebron play well without the ball? Let me help you here.. NEVER. Lebron's never adjusted to playing with stars. First year with Wade he tried.. what happened?

Second year Wade tried.. Lebron went back to his ball handling ways.

Yes, battier would help that team be more successful than lebron. He defends well, doesn't require the ball, and can be a spot up shooter creating space for the other 4 guys.

[Ikill]

Let me dumb it down for u a little more since u cant grasp my point.


Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Lebron
Paul

would defeat a team of

Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Jordan
Paul

Not because LBJ is a better individual player. But because LBJ would make every player on that stacked team better than MJ could make them.

Will MJ still be more clutch than Lebron? yes. But Bird would easily match MJ's clutchness with LBJ's support.

Shaq is a better Shaq with LBJ than Jordan.

Same for Hakeem.

Chris paul would still be involved in the offense with LBJ, where he would tuirn into a spot up shooter with that much talent on a team lead by MJ.

R u getting the point yet?
Shaq Hakeem Paul and Lebron thats a terrible fit on offence because all of them are so ball dominant.

[Tking714]

Yes

Because Jordan and Pippen didn't win six rings

Because Shaq and Kobe didn't three-peat

Because Duncan does not have 3 finals MVPs

Because the Celtics don't exist

OP has a beautiful mind :bowdown:

[Joey3000]

OK let me help u guys:

Jordan is G.O.A.T. I'm 100% in agreement with that.

Now to surpass MJ you would:

1. Have to be as good in not better.

2. Must have the achievements to back up an arguement.

LBJ is great in his own rights. Not as good in some areas (clutch) but better in other areas (passer for example).

He is also well on his way to reaching achievements suchs as number of season and Finals MVP's. Titles, and other personal milestones.


IF lebron keeps this up, your only way to attack him will be saying things like "LBJ never won a dunk contest"

[pauk]

He'll never be considered the G.O.A.T.

Michael Jordan will always hold that title. You can't lose in the NBA Finals TWICE and eclispe the great one, which is Jordan.

Lebron is a super star player for the ages. His skill is undeniable. He is a freak of nature. He is the king.

But

He still falls short to Michael Jordan. The greatest of all time. Jordan was just that good.(Also, never backed out of a dunk contest....)

Is it better to lose in the Finals (Lebron) or lose in 1st round/miss playoffs (Jordan)?

Answer that one please....

To favor Jordan over Lebron because Jordan didnt go to the Finals with even worse team (even at 21) makes absolutely NO sense...............

[Joey3000]

Before the age of 28 and having only scrubs around you is it better to lose in the Finals (Lebron) or lose in 1st round/miss playoffs (Jordan)..........

Answer that one please....

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m77kxks5541rys4czo1_r1_500.gif

[DatAsh]

Before the age of 28 and having only scrubs around you is it better to lose in the Finals (Lebron) or lose in 1st round/miss playoffs (Jordan)..........

Answer that one please....

I'm not sure why this way of thinking is still around. It's been called out quite a few times, but for some reason it still pops up every now and then.

Perhaps a better way to look at things would be to compare the number of series that each player won, with higher tiered series being progressively more valuable.

For example



Jordan Series Wins
First Round - 10
Semifinals - 8
Conference Finals - 6
Finals - 6

Lebron Series Wins
First Round - 7
Semifinals - 4
Conference Finals - 3
Finals - 1

Magic Series Wins
First Round - 11
Semifinals - 10
Conference Finals - 9
Finals - 5

[ripthekik]

I'm not sure why this way of thinking is still around. It's been called out quite a few times, but for some reason it still pops up every now and then.

Perhaps a better way to look at things would be to compare the number of series that each player won, with higher tiered series being progressively more valuable.

For example



Jordan Series Wins
First Round - 10
Semifinals - 8
Conference Finals - 6
Finals - 6

Lebron Series Wins
First Round - 7
Semifinals - 4
Conference Finals - 3
Finals - 1

Magic Series Wins
First Round - 11
Semifinals - 10
Conference Finals - 9
Finals - 5

It would be even better if you include loses in each series, as well if number of times they missed the playoffs. Then that would be the complete picture, wouldn't it?

[DatAsh]

It would be even better if you include loses in each series, as well if number of times they missed the playoffs. Then that would be the complete picture, wouldn't it?

That information is already there.

[Joey3000]

Jordan Series Wins
First Round - 10
Semifinals - 8
Conference Finals - 6
Finals - 6

Lebron Series Wins
First Round - 7
Semifinals - 4
Conference Finals - 3
Finals - 1

Magic Series Wins
First Round - 11
Semifinals - 10
Conference Finals - 9
Finals - 5

Based on those stats, LBJ is well on his way. G.O.A.T is his to lose.

[Mr. Jabbar]

2011

[Greg Oden 50]

JORDAN UNDEFEATED IN FINALS

JORDAN WIN :applause:

[macmac]

JORDAN UNDEFEATED IN FINALS

JORDAN WIN :applause:

I'd rather go 6/8 in the finals than 6/6....these aren't free throws you brainless infant, it's season long campaigns and harduous playoff battles.... The more deep playoff runs you have the better, dumbo

[Solid Snake]

Its says alot when mods have to change the title from:

"If Lebron ends up G.O.A.T its due to one reason"

to

"Lebron James's ability to play with Stars"

They changed it to calm down all the fanatics who are not open to trying to understand a statement. You guys are so blinded by the *** jordan left in your eyes to recognize possible the best team player since Magic.

Let me help you guys a littlebit.

Would a faster, stronger, more athletic Magic Johnson have a chance of being the G.O.A.T? Well thats what LBJ is.

I don't understand why people are so offended by such a platform, what's so absurd about this statement:

Lebron is the best team player since Magic.


I mean, Jordan has more offensive tools, and a better killer instinct, while Lebron does more to make his team better. How is the latter statement not at least SOME consideration for that player POTENTIALLY becoming greatest of all time, assuming he gets the accolades to back it up????

And I'm from Cleveland.

[diamenz]

I mean, Jordan has more offensive tools, and a better killer instinct, while Lebron does more to make his team better. How is the latter statement not at least SOME consideration for that player POTENTIALLY becoming greatest of all time, assuming he gets the accolades to back it up????

because imo, as someone said in this thread earlier - that ship has sailed.

hey, you can go into a million diferent explainations and comparisons for goat. but in the end, anybody who is old enough (and was mature enough at the time) to have watched mj play just knows.

[RRR3]

Yes he has the GOAT ability to stack his team to ensure he faces the least amount of competition.
Didn't hear you complaining when the Mamba did the same thing :confusedshrug:

[ThaRegul8r]

Was taking OP serious until I saw ''NBA 2k argument''. Then I just :facepalm

I've maintained that contemporary fans have an "NBA2K mentality," and that was yet another bit of evidence that served to prove my point.

[ThaRegul8r]

Shaq Hakeem Paul and Lebron thats a terrible fit on offence because all of them are so ball dominant.

I've found that most people have absolutely no clue how to assemble a real TEAM. Since their criteria for judging a player is being a #1 option, they throw a bunch of #1 options together on a team, and it never even occurs to them that they can't all be the #1 option while playing together.

Shaq
Hakeem
LeBron
Paul

I want people who put this kind of team together to state what the expected point distribution will be, and then state whether that's something they'll all be happy with


it's not about throwing a team full of stars together. That doesn't work.

:applause:

[gengiskhan]

I'd rather go 6/8 in the finals than 6/6....these aren't free throws you brainless infant, it's season long campaigns and harduous playoff battles.... The more deep playoff runs you have the better, dumbo

BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.

Loosing NBA Finals is the worse feeling in the world once the offseason starts
A reigning MVP loosing NBA Finals is the worst of the worse!

[ThaRegul8r]

BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.

And got bounced in the first round the following season by a #8 seed as a 67-win team. Which is worse? Which one elicited the most questions about choking and performance under pressure?

[The Real JW]

Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.

Yeah, what a list of choking under-performers.

[Mach_3]

Did i actually just read that Magic has an ARGUMENT for being a better passer than Lebron??? An ARGUMENT??


You ni99as got to be trolling right now :facepalm

[Doranku]

You give up any chance you have at being GOAT when you get outscored by Jason Terry in the finals during your prime.

[ThaRegul8r]

Did i actually just read that Magic has an ARGUMENT for being a better passer than Lebron??? An ARGUMENT??


You ni99as got to be trolling right now :facepalm

I don't doubt that it was perfectly serious.

After all, anyone not playing in the here and now is overrated.

[Joey3000]

BULLCRAP.

A 100% record in NBA Finals is what you want!

Ask Kobe how he feels loosing to 2004 Pistons & 2008 Celtics.

If you loose NBA Finals, You'll always be questioned about CHOKING, PERFMANCE UNDER PRESSURE, INEFFICIENCY ON BIGGEST STAGE, POOR LEADERSHIP etc etc.

Dirk Lost to Heat the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Bird lost to Lakers the 1985 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Malone lost to Bulls the 1997 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.
Barkley lost to Bulls the 1993 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.

Loosing NBA Finals is the worse feeling in the world once the offseason starts
A reigning MVP loosing NBA Finals is the worst of the worse!


SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?

[tpols]

SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?
Depends.. You think Bron and Kobe want '11 and '04 on their resumes?

If they played good in the finals and just happened to lose.. Then yea I'll take the more finals. But if they played like shit? Is this even a question?

[ripthekik]

SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?
One of them has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other.. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.

[Joey3000]

SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?


Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.

[red1]

One of them has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other.. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6s0fu9fsJ1rpga6zo1_400.jpg

[tpols]

Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.
Alright so if Lebron ends up winning six chips but has three more 2011 style finals where he chokes/disappears that will be better than if he just wins six chips with only one 2011 performance?

It depends how they get bounced. Currently Lebron having an extra Finals under his belt is bad.. Because he had an all time bad choke job in it. Same for Kobe in 04. It's bad. They were better off getting quietly put down earlier ala the Lakers in 03 than to get embarrassed on the biggest stage.

[The Real JW]

SMH let me help you out.

2 players spend 14 years in the league.

1 player goes to the finals 6 times and wins every time in his career.

Another player goes to the finals 10 times and only wins 6.

Who had the more successful run?

Need more info on the 4 losses.

[Mr. Jabbar]

His real ability doesnt lay in playing with stars but in teaming up with them :applause:

[ripthekik]

Damnit!!!

1 has only gone to the finals 6 times (even tho he won all 6 times).

The Other has gone 10 times. 10 Times out of 14 years is huge. He lost 4 of them but atleast he went. the other guy got sent home early 8 times out of 14 years. going home early is not an acheivement. Getting their 10 times speaks volumes.
Yea man.. the guy that got send home just has bad teams.. but whenever he makes the finals, he puts on a show on the biggest stage and wins it. That's amazing and clutch.

The other guy just happens to have a stacked team. However, when the team wants to rely on him on the big stage, he chokes, losing in the finals 4 times.

It should be clear who the better player is..

[Kobr]

Change "ability" to "necessity" and we can get a worthwhile discussion going.

[willds09]

[QUOTE=gengiskhan.
Kobe lost to Celtics the 2006 NBA Finals despite being season MVP.![/QUOTE]
:roll:

[willds09]

You give up any chance you have at being GOAT when you get outscored by Jason Terry in the finals during your prime.
Memories:lol

[LosBulls]

He will NEVER be GOAT, though. As Johnny Sack from the Sopranos once said, 'That ship... has sailed.'
I read Johnny Sack from Sponge Bob :hammerhead:

[ripthekik]

Change "ability" to "necessity" and we can get a worthwhile discussion going.
:roll: :roll:

[BoutPractice]

Failures don't necessarily hurt your legacy in the same way than lack of success does.
If you judge Kareem and Jordan by their own standards of greatness, they had tons of failures. Kareem won only 1 title in a decade where he was clearly the best in the league. Jordan failed time and time again in the playoffs before he won his first title. He only reached his first Finals at 28.
But they accumulated so much success in the end that their legacy changed.

[Overdrive]

Failures don't necessarily hurt your legacy in the same way than lack of success does.
If you judge Kareem and Jordan by their own standards of greatness, they had tons of failures. Kareem won only 1 title in a decade where he was clearly the best in the league. Jordan failed time and time again in the playoffs before he won his first title. He only reached his first Finals at 28.
But they accumulated so much success in the end that their legacy changed.

Yeah, but even when Jordan failed teamwise he put up memorable - in a positive way - games and series. I bet more people know Jordan dropping 63 in The Garden than Jordan losing that series in a lopsided fashion.

The feel was that the Bulls despite Jordan playing great.

Lebron's failures were personal failures, failures when his teams were heavily favoured, when nobody suspected his teams to lose. The teams lost and the blame went to James, because he was playing below his standards. Something Jordan, in the collective basketball memory, hasn't done, although he had some not so great outings obviously.

For Lebron it's his teams lost, because he didn't play as great as he should have and that sentiment is true imo.

[All Net]

Yeah, but even when Jordan failed teamwise he put up memorable - in a positive way - games and series. I bet more people know Jordan dropping 63 in The Garden than Jordan losing that series in a lopsided fashion.

The feel was that the Bulls despite Jordan playing great.

Lebron's failures were personal failures, failures when his teams were heavily favoured, when nobody suspected his teams to lose. The teams lost and the blame went to James, because he was playing below his standards. Something Jordan, in the collective basketball memory, hasn't done, although he had some not so great outings obviously.

For Lebron it's his teams lost, because he didn't play as great as he should have and that sentiment is true imo.

In two series yeah...but he had many great ones too.

2011 when he was terrible and 2010 when people say he quit...but he isn't the only one to of done that.

The fact his team were favoured in the first place was a joke considering the rosters he had in Cleveland.

[RRR3]

One of them (LeBron) has a bad team, can't fault him.. but as long as he gets the opportunity, he performs and delivers.

the other (Kobe).. is a choker, but always gets to the finals because he has a stacked team.
Exactly. Perfect assessment. :applause:

[Overdrive]

In two series yeah...but he had many great ones too.

2011 when he was terrible and 2010 when people say he quit...but he isn't the only one to of done that.

The fact his team were favoured in the first place was a joke considering the rosters he had in Cleveland.

As I said earlier in this thread, his 2007 finals are a positive. That playoff run was ****ing awesome and that's why his teams were favoured the years after. He reached the finals already with this team, they added few veterans, had 60 win seasons and then lost every year. Personally I thought they'd make it in '10 and I don't follow the us-media as much as americans (can) do. So it was more or less my personal feeling and not a media driven expectation. For me the Cavs were the favourites in the east and I think they would've won versus the Lakers.

Once I started lurking here and saw pics, i found out espn and other outlets expected the Cavs to win more or less unanimously it proved my point.

In '11 they were the favourites and it was reasonable. They needed time to gel, but they dominated the east playoffs.
I called Dallas winning by the CFs, if they don't meet the Bulls. People on my "home blacktop" called me insane by that time. I didn't expect James to choke that much, but I thought Dallas was a bad mismatch for the Heat(Chandler and Marion as D-players and a real scoring threat in the front court - I felt Bosh was underutilized throughout the season - capable guards etcetc..).

Media again expected the Heat to win.
So twice the were favourites, doesn't matter how bad the team makeup was, and lost.

In '09 he couldn't do anything. The Magic had a once in a lifetime series. Although the Cavs were expected to win their weakness against inside-out teams were exposed quickly and no blame was put on Lebron. That series basically was a "young Jordan losing effort", comparable to the aforementioned Celtics series.

TBH I can't remember what happened '08 so I doubt it was that bad.