Who would you rather build your team around - Kareem, Bird, LeBron or MJ?

[jongib369]

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/abd0/large/abd0-006.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/1006/celtics.lakers.1980s/images/larry-bird-shooting.jpg

http://counterkicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/mj-allstar-fadeaway-over-s.marion.jpg

http://theredzonereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/lebron_james_dunk.jpg

Most people have MJ as the GOAT with Kareem and Larry coming close..LeBron proving hes a potential top 5 or higher every passing day....But, who would you rather build your team around? For me, it would have to be Kareem because of the center postion having an all around larger impact on the game.

Would love to hear reasons why some of you would possibly even select Bird Over MJ, which I don't think would be the wrong decision. Can't go wrong with any top 10 player.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aLu4oc2WeY GOHD DAUM :hammertime:

[troyceps33]

Assuming I don't know how their careers are going to pan out, Kareem

[jongib369]

Assuming I don't know how their careers are going to pan out, Kareem
And if you do?

Technically you wouldn't since you would be drafting them and making a team, thus any accomplishment they did make doesn't mean anything other than individual

[troyceps33]

Probably still Kareem

[jongib369]

Probably still Kareem
I feel like I'm on ****in Mt Everest right now , MY OPINION IS SHARED

http://media.tumblr.com/f3b4d6a4e6bbfc7fc096c4b4b6a51974/tumblr_inline_mk3n15AAFh1qz4rgp.gif

[Mr. Jabbar]

Jabbar, no questions asked.

[BuffaloBill]

Kareem



Lebron
Bird
MJ



Based on who I would build my team around.

[jongib369]

Jabbar, no questions asked.
http://media.tumblr.com/f02c4839fe15831cc177d0322c8c26a3/tumblr_inline_mgq4leTjvb1rzlrzn.gif

[Micku]

Bird or Kareem.

Both completely change the franchise that they were in their rookie year. Kareem took a 27 win team to a 56 win team. Bird took a 29 win team to a 61 win team. Bird had more success in a short time frame, but Kareem had more longevity.

You won't go wrong with either of those players, but it depends on the teammates surrounding them. I just think Bird and Kareem would offer the most success in their rookie year and continuing to do so through out their careers.

[elementally morale]

If I don't know how they would play, Kareem and then LeBron. If I do, Bird and then Jordan.

[jongib369]

Bird or Kareem.

Both completely change the franchise that they were in their rookie year. Kareem took a 27 win team to a 56 win team. Bird took a 29 win team to a 61 win team. Bird had more success in a short time frame, but Kareem had more longevity.

You won't go wrong with either of those players, but it depends on the teammates surrounding them. I just think Bird and Kareem would offer the most success in their rookie year and continuing to do so through out their careers.

:bowdown:

Only a few players I know of off the top of my head that had that large of an impact on their team the first year

[pauk]

Thats.... a tough one...

[jongib369]

Thats.... a tough one...
Lol idk if you're being sarcastic or not but would love to hear your opinion if you can make up your mind :lol

Known on here as a LeBron fan right? Guessing you'd choose him. Which I can respect LeBron is a ****ing monster. Need to see him play before he retires

[elementally morale]

If I don't know how they would play, Kareem and then LeBron. If I do, Bird and then Jordan.


If I don't know how they will pan out:

1. Kareem
2. LeBron
3. Bird
4. MJ


If I do:
EDIT: longevity taken into account.

1.a Kareem
1.b Bird
3. MJ
4. LeBron

That's my final answer.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Thats.... a tough one...

not really. once you scratch lebron and compare the others 3 achievements & longevity Kareems name instantly appears as the obvious choice

[elementally morale]

not really. once you scratch lebron and compare the others 3 achievements & longevity Kareems name instantly appears as the obvious choice

Longevity... you are right. I'll have to edit my post. :(
(BTW, we have no idea as to LeBron's longevity yet.)

[jongib369]

If I don't know how they will pan out:

1. Kareem
2. LeBron
3. Bird
4. MJ


If I do:

1. Bird
2/a Kareem
2/b MJ
3. LeBron

That's my final answer.
could you possibly explain a little bit why you would choose Bird over Kareem who you had number 1 if you didnt know?

[Mr. Jabbar]

Longevity... you are right. I'll have to edit my post. :(
(BTW, we have no idea as to LeBron's longevity yet.)

its ok we can scratch lebrons name right away based on other facts my friend. I wouldn't want to build around a guy that would back stab my franchise for starters

[elementally morale]

could you possibly explain a little bit why you would choose Bird over Kareem who you had number 1 if you didnt know?

I didn't take longevity into account first, just peak play and impact on team. I started watching in 1980 and from what I've seen, Bird's peak was better than anyone else's not named Shaq. But I didn't see 70s Kareem... so I don't know.

And longevity is important, I just totally forgot about it the first time, hence the EDIT. In other words: I fu(ked up the first two times I tried. :oldlol:

[elementally morale]

its ok we can scratch lebrons name right away based on other facts my friend. I wouldn't want to build around a guy that would back stab my franchise for starters

Yeah... and losing the 2013 Finals against the 8th seed of the West didn't help his case either.

[Micku]

I didn't take longevity into account first, just peak play and impact on team. I started watching in 1980 and from what I've seen, Bird's peak was better than anyone else's not named Shaq. But I didn't see 70s Kareem... so I don't know.

And longevity is important, I just totally forgot about it the first time, hence the EDIT. In other words: I fu(ked up the first two times I tried. :oldlol:

I never really think about injuries, but what if you took that into consideration as well? Bird was more injury prone than Jordan, LBJ and Kareem.

[jongib369]

I didn't take longevity into account first, just peak play and impact on team. I started watching in 1980 and from what I've seen, Bird's peak was better than anyone else's not named Shaq. But I didn't see 70s Kareem... so I don't know.

And longevity is important, I just totally forgot about it the first time, hence the EDIT. In other words: I fu(ked up the first two times I tried. :oldlol:
It's just one game but if you didn't click it check this out...1977 kareem scores 45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aLu4oc2WeY

[CP3MVP]

In today's league?

1. Kareem
2. Jordan
3. LeBron
4. Bird

[Mr. Jabbar]

Yeah... and losing the 2013 Finals against the 8th seed of the West didn't help his case either.

:applause:

[KOBE143]

KAJ
MJ
Bird












gap























1a.Scalabrine
1b.LeBron

[pauk]

Lol idk if you're being sarcastic or not but would love to hear your opinion if you can make up your mind :lol

Known on here as a LeBron fan right? Guessing you'd choose him. Which I can respect LeBron is a ****ing monster. Need to see him play before he retires

I am a fan of Lebrons game.... just like i am a huge fan of Jordans, Kareems and especially Birds game.....

[jongib369]

KAJ
MJ
Bird












gap























1a.Scalabrine
1b.LeBron

:roll: I seriously love your posts. Used to annoy me but I always laugh now

[TheMan]

Knowing how their careers went and taking health, longetivity and dominance into consideration... Toss up between Jordan and Kareem with Bron right behind them. I wwould scratch Bird from consideration because of his chronic back problems.

Final list...

1a. Jordan
1b. KAJ
2. LeBron
3. Bird

[Cali Syndicate]

Kareem probably has the GOAT college career. Bird had an excellent one as well.

Considering college is typically where talent is scouted....

Kareem - Easiest to build around a big. At 7'2" yeah he's pretty much the epitome of a big. Had the agility of a guard too. Excellent defender and rebounder with a great offensive game. Can't go wrong here.

Bird - Elite court vision and shooting ability. I'm thinking Bird would have been like a 35ppg scorer had there been a 3 point line.

Both MJ and Lebron athleticism were just clearly ahead of the field as prospects. Lebron as a high school phenom in a man's body and MJ as the majestic high flyer. Lebron had the hype as the Magic v2 so probably Lebron over MJ in this case.

[jongib369]

Kareem probably has the GOAT college career. Bird had an excellent one as well.

Considering college is typically where talent is scouted....

Kareem - Easiest to build around a big. At 7'2" yeah he's pretty much the epitome of a big. Had the agility of a guard too. Excellent defender and rebounder with a great offensive game. Can't go wrong here.

Bird - Elite court vision and shooting ability. I'm thinking Bird would have been like a 35ppg scorer had there been a 3 point line.

Both MJ and Lebron athleticism were just clearly ahead of the field as prospects. Lebron as a high school phenom in a man's body and MJ as the majestic high flyer. Lebron had the hype as the Magic v2 so probably Lebron over MJ in this case.
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/busey_clapping.gif

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

who is that defending MJ's shot in that third picture?

[jongib369]

who is that defending MJ's shot in that third picture?
shawn marion

heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPmPu-JxJ9A

[Cali Syndicate]

who is that defending MJ's shot in that third picture?

That would be Mr. Shawn Matrix Marion

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

shawn marion

heres the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPmPu-JxJ9A


haha, was Isaiah Thomas coaching the east that yr? must have been pretty awkward with MJ on the squad.

[ThaRegul8r]

I happen to be building teams around all four, actually (separately, not all on the same team).

[entropy35]

Lebron or KAJ. Very close between them.

[The Choken One]

big men >

KAJ


MJ
LeBron
Bird

[dh144498]

I'd take MJ. He is afterall the 2nd greatest of all time, and the 2nd greatest SG of all time.

[NumberSix]

Shaq

[LBJFTW]

Shaq

I think Shaq was left out on purpose, as there wouldn't even be a discussion if he was listed.

[keepinitreal]

Who would stop Kareem in today's league?

[Greg Oden 50]

leBron :roll:

[bdreason]

MJ.

[jongib369]

Who would stop Kareem in today's league?
Exactly.

[2010splash]

Picking Bird or Kareem is a joke. Bird is simply an inferior player to both Jordan and LeBron. Kareem played against horrible competition in the 70's. The only reason people rank him ahead of LeBron is because of his decorated resume due to longevity. He wasn't actually a better player than LeBron.

Building a team from scratch...

1. Jordan/LeBron
2. LeBron/Jordan
3. Shaq

Then the rest.

[jongib369]

MJ.
Cant go wrong with MJ

http://25.media.tumblr.com/167ee180da92c56463e9488904011433/tumblr_mk4yjpwDup1rcuxm8o1_500.jpg

[All Net]

Kareem is the most logical answer as a 7'2 dominant big...dude could average 30 and 15 easily now..

[jongib369]

Picking Bird or Kareem is a joke. Bird is simply an inferior player to both Jordan and LeBron. Kareem played against horrible competition in the 70's. The only reason people rank him ahead of LeBron is because of his decorated resume due to longevity. He wasn't actually a better player than LeBron.

Building a team from scratch...

1. Jordan/LeBron
2. LeBron/Jordan
3. Shaq

Then the rest.
http://oi48.tinypic.com/femicg.jpg

[bdreason]

I was actually leaning towards Kareem, but I had to take into consideration the new NBA rules. MJ would simply be unstoppable with the new defensive rules.

[jongib369]

I was actually leaning towards Kareem, but I had to take into consideration the new NBA rules. MJ would simply be unstoppable with the new defensive rules.
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/golf-clap.gif

[pauk]

Who would stop Kareem in today's league?

Its not like anybody is stopping Lebron any easier in todays league either... better yet Jordan or Bird aswell...

Its very tough... but if i didnt know anything about how their careers would work out then i would go with:

1. Kareem - was amazing before NBA, very dominant, very noticed and i guess its kindof safer to gamble on that kindof big man, especially in todays era...

2. Lebron - was more hyped than maybe anybody ive seen and at even younger age than any of these other 3 guys, was probably a better talent than any of these other 3 guys at that young age, man amongst children, potential was simply more earlier noticable than Bird/Jordan and he already played the game the right way being hyped as to be "the next Magic.. or better.." and so on, so i go with him at #2...

3. Bird - was the best NCAA player in 1977-79 (averaged ridicilous numbers like 32-13-5 etc.), very much talked about & hyped, the potential was eiaser to see than when Jordan was in college...

4. Jordan - won NCAA championship, but his teammate there James Worthy was actually more productive / better as far as i remember, the potential of him becoming exactly as good as he became was certainly not seen by anybody on this planet imo... foolish us...

[pauk]

But what makes this still tough is that it also depends on what type of team you have when you get one of these players (i assume we are not starting a NBA team from literally scratch?)..... if its all scrubs then i would favor a go-to-guy who can playmake/create plays with the ball in his hands, big men are not better than equally talented perimeter players in those "Here is the ball, do something" moments for example.... Lebron/Bird/Jordan (especially Lebron & Bird!) pre-NBA were also proven facilitators who showed they could that way make anything around them better...

"To take Kareem and later give him a great playmaker or to take Jordan/Bird/Lebron and later give him a big man.... that is the question"

or

"To take Kareem because i already have a great playmaker or to take Jordan/Bird/Lebron because i already have a great big man.... that is the question"

[Mr. Jabbar]

Picking Bird or Kareem is a joke. Bird is simply an inferior player to both Jordan and LeBron. Kareem played against horrible competition in the 70's. The only reason people rank him ahead of LeBron is because of his decorated resume due to longevity. He wasn't actually a better player than LeBron.

Building a team from scratch...

1. Jordan/LeBron
2. LeBron/Jordan
3. Shaq

Then the rest.

behold ignorance in its purest state :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[LeBird]

If you didn't know who the rest of your franchise players, I'd say:

1) Bird
2) KAJ
3) Lebron
4) Jordan

[Mr. Jabbar]

pauk, every time you say its a tough decision a kitten dies, lets face it, the only reason this is tough for you is cause you're a lebron stan :confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

1 Jordan
2 Lebron
3 Jabbar
4 Bird

[pauk]

Many other reasons why choosing between these 4 makes it in reality impossible for me... Not knowing how good they would pan out it would then be just best to cover my eyes and pick one guy.... and even then i would probably be regretful thinking maybe one of those other 3 guys would be a better choice.... :banghead:

[pauk]

pauk, every time you say its a tough decision a kitten dies, lets face it, the only reason this is tough for you is cause you're a lebron stan :confusedshrug:

Of course its because of that... because if i wasnt like you say a "Lebron stan" (you call anybody that who happens to be objective about his and anybody elses game anyways) then of course i would immediately go with Bird or Kareem or Jordan... because they were soooooo much better and showed soooo much more potential pre-NBA.... :rolleyes:

Even if it was the choice between only Bird, Kareem and Jordan it would still be equally tough.... what kindof "stan" am i then? I know!! Its tough because Lebron is not mentioned right? :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

Of course its because of that... because if i wasnt like you say a "Lebron stan" (you call anybody that who happens to be objective about his and anybody elses game anyways) then of course i would immediately go with Bird or Kareem or Jordan... because they were soooooo much better and showed soooo much more potential pre-NBA.... :rolleyes:

Even if it was the choice between only Bird, Kareem and Jordan it would still be equally tough....

sorry, thought this thread was about picking someone for whats hes gonna give to your franchise given what we know about them, not about who was the most hyped at the moment of pick up...

[knicksman]

Its easier to build around jordan and kareem if you know how to build a team whereas if you dont, Then build around statpadders like lebron and bird. They can easily give you wins right away but they arent getting it done with lesser talent like jordan did. Thats why their combined rings are 4 which is not even greater than either kareem/jordan much more if combined.:lol

[pauk]

sorry, thought this thread was about picking someone for whats hes gonna give to your franchise given what we know about them, not about who was the most hyped at the moment of pick up...

It goes much deeper than that.... as i explained... and have even more to explain...

Just one more thing about that "stan" thing.... What you need to keep in mind in this case is that Larry Bird is only behind Reggie Miller my favorite player ever.... I love Lebrons game, but his game is not the only one i enjoy/appreciate today or especially compared to past players and i do hence not mind talking about his game and i certainly dont think its a crime and that certainly doesnt make me a "Lebron-stan", especially not when i am simply objective, factual and logical in my assumptions about him and anybody else....

A Stan is what i consider a fan that only likes one player, that is biased / doesnt appreciate other players games, delusional, not logical, non factual, simpleminded and in many cases disrespectful towards fans/posters who are not Stans of your player, even will use insults and so on.... thats the complete opposite to me... and thats the complete HIT with YOU....

You dont need to bump another 100 year old thread from my clowning days to "prove" me wrong, i am a different poster and i dont feel the need to create a new account because of it (although it would probably be best)...

[All Net]

Its easier to build around jordan and kareem if you know how to build a team whereas if you dont, Then build around statpadders like lebron and bird. They can easily give you wins right away but they arent getting it done with lesser talent like jordan did. Thats why their combined rings are 4 which is not even greater than either kareem/jordan much more if combined.:lol

Where were you when Lebron was winning 60+ games with role players as his next best option?

even more idiotic saying Bird is a stat padder too...no wonder Knicks fans get a bad rep.

[Mr. Jabbar]

It goes much deeper than that.... as i explained... and have even more to explain...

Just one more thing about that "stan" thing.... What you need to keep in mind in this case is that Larry Bird is only behind Reggie Miller my favorite player ever.... I love Lebrons game, but his game is not the only one i enjoy/appreciate today or especially compared to past players and i do hence not mind talking about his game and i certainly dont think its a crime and that certainly doesnt make me a "Lebron-stan", especially not when i am simply objective, factual and logical in my assumptions about him and anybody else....

A Stan is what i consider a fan that only likes one player, that is biased / doesnt appreciate other players games, delusional, not logical, non factual, simpleminded and in many cases disrespectful towards fans/posters who are not Stans of your player, even will use insults and so on.... thats the complete opposite to me... and thats the complete HIT with YOU....

not admitting you're a lebron stan is not solid ground to start an honest conversation pauk :no:

[JerryWest]

Lebron

[Mr. Jabbar]

You dont need to bump another 100 year old thread from my clowning days to "prove" me wrong, i am a different poster and i dont feel the need to create a new account because of it (although it would probably be best)...

lol I didn't bump that thread, although I admit had I find it earlier I would have :oldlol:

its a good thing you don't create another account though, ppl that feel the need to "start fresh" on an internet forum are hilarious :roll:

[jongib369]

lmao it really is a tough decision...My original idea was having the first pick in a draft of players from today with those guys added... Or one which includes EVERYONE who ever played



Personally think these 2 might be the best all time team you can put together..12 players

C-Kareem
PF-Russell
SF- Bird
SG-West
PG-Robertson
6th-Moses
7th- Kobe
8th-Shaq
9th-Baylor
10th-Havlicek
11th-McHale
12th-Stockton

C-Wilt
PF-Hakeem
SF-LeBron
SG-Jordan
PG-Magic
6th-Barkley
7th-Malone
8th-Thurmond
9th-Barry
10th-Pippen
11th-Frazier
12th-Pettit

Imagine what Oscar and Magics assists would be :roll:

[JerryWest]

lmao it really is a tough decision...My original idea was having the first pick in a all time fantasy draft of players from today with those guys added... Or one which includes EVERYONE who ever played



Personally think these 2 might be the best all time team you can put together..12 players

C-Kareem
PF-Russell
SF- Bird
SG-West
PG-Robertson
6th-Moses
7th- Kobe
8th-Shaq
9th-Baylor
10th-Havlicek
11th-McHale
12th-Stockton

C-Wilt
PF-Hakeem
SF-LeBron
SG-Jordan
PG-Magic
6th-Barkley
7th-Malone
8th-Thurmond
9th-Barry
10th-Pippen
11th-Frazier
12th-Pettit

Imagine what Oscar and Magics assists would be :roll:
tl;dr

[Mr. Jabbar]

tl;dr

:oldlol:

[pauk]

not admitting you're a lebron stan is not solid ground to start an honest conversation pauk :no:

Actually very often it has been bothersome to attempt any type of candid conversation with you.... i dont even know why i try, its maybe because i still believe in a day where you might become a more sophisticated basketball fan & poster.... its never to late no matter what you did in the past.... its no insult, look Jabbar, nobody here dislikes you but its only your act, we all love basketball here, but wouldnt it be better if you dropped your act and tried to be more courteous & objective so we could enjoy sharing basketball knowledge and simply enjoy talking about anything else aswell? If its not an act, then i assume you must be a young fella still in one of those stages.... i understand, i was that to, most of us were... but keep in mind you will snap out of it eventually and when you do its just a +1 great poster here...

[All Net]

Actually very often it has been bothersome to attempt any type of candid conversation with you.... i dont even know why i try, its maybe because i still believe in a day where you might become a more sophisticated basketball fan & poster.... its never to late no matter what you did in the past.... its no insult, look Jabbar, nobody here dislikes you but its only your act, we all love basketball here, but wouldnt it be better if you dropped your act and tried to be more courteous & objective so we could enjoy sharing basketball knowledge and simply enjoy talking about anything else aswell? If its not an act, then i assume you must be a young fella still in one of those stages.... i understand, i was that to, most of us were... but keep in mind you will snap out of it eventually and when you do its just a +1 great poster here...

He did...before he decided to become a troll/funny guy.

[greymatter]

Barring injury and longevity issues, Bird is the no brainer. So long as he was on the floor, the Celts were never a mediocre team, even when his back problems left him a shadow of his former self. None of the other 3 could ever boast that.

He didn't need teammates tailored around his game, so it was much easier to build around him. Magic and Russell were the only 2 other players equally good at making their teammates better. Bird was also the far superior team leader. Jordan was just a primadonna asshole. Kareem was often disinterested. Lebron, while better now, was once an immature quitter.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Actually very often it has been bothersome to attempt any type of candid conversation with you.... i dont even know why i try, its maybe because i still believe in a day where you might become a more sophisticated basketball fan & poster.... its never to late no matter what you did in the past.... its no insult, look Jabbar, nobody here dislikes you but its only your act, we all love basketball here, but wouldnt it be better if you dropped your act and tried to be more courteous & objective so we could enjoy sharing basketball knowledge and simply enjoy talking about anything else aswell? If its not an act, then i assume you must be a young fella still in one of those stages.... i understand, i was that to, most of us were... but keep in mind you will snap out of it eventually and when you do its just a +1 great poster here...

lol its not an act, I'm an objective poster, I've said plenty of times lebron is a pretty great player (through 3 quarters anyway), I despise the road hes chosen though, don't like the individual in the slightest.

[Sarcastic]

LOL everyone knew Jordan would be "the Man" except for Portland and Houston.


Portland even knew, except they already had Drexler.

[pauk]

He did...before he decided to become a troll/funny guy.

Humor is all good! :P But you know, i/we could live without the flaming, the daydreamed opinions, the disrespect & disapproval for any other player not named *insert the only player you like* and so on...

[pauk]

lol its not an act, I'm an objective poster, I've said plenty of times lebron is a pretty great player (through 3 quarters anyway), I despise the road hes chosen though, don't like the individual in the slightest.

We can talk about all that on PM if you want (we will be derailing the thread afterall, we already kindof are), i will show you why you might at least microscopically reconsider those bolded words...

[Breezy]

I would say Kareem for Basketball reasons :D

But I take Jordan... Great basketball plus I make 50 trillion in Jersey sales.

[ripthekik]

A. Can't go wrong with Kareem/Jordan.
B. would be Bird.
C. Lebron. Don't draft this guy unless you are sure you can add another 2 all stars to the squad.

[All Net]

A. Can't go wrong with Kareem/Jordan.
B. would be Bird.
C. Lebron. Don't draft this guy unless you are sure you can add another 2 all stars to the squad.

Agenda is obvious..why do you bother?

Kareem/Bird didn't have all-stars? and you wonder why your threads/posts get deleted.

c'mon man stop it..

[TheMan]

Agenda is obvious..why do you bother?

Kareem/Bird didn't have all-stars? and you wonder why your threads/posts get deleted.

c'mon man stop it..
As a Jordan fan, I'm neutral in this Kobe fans vs LBJ fans going on here and even though both sides do a good job a throwing mud, it seem the Kobe fans have gone out of their way to put LBJ down recently. It's getting really tiresome and boring.

[alenleomessi]

Who would stop Kareem in today's league?
larry sanders and about 20 more mediocre centers

[RRR3]

As a Jordan fan, I'm neutral in this Kobe fans vs LBJ fans going on here and even though both sides do a good job a throwing mud, it seem the Kobe fans have gone out of their way to put LBJ down recently. It's getting really tiresome and boring.
LeBron has been very clutch lately, the Mamba boys don't like it one bit.

[Harison]

Kareem
MJ
Bird
Lebron

[Overdrive]

If the league consisted of 4 teams, every team, every rosterspot aside from these players consided of exact the same producing players I'd definately take Kareem. Jordan obviously is the best talent, but who could stop Kareem? In the paint there would be still Kareem to challange Jordan or Lebron, who would challange Kareem? Bird would be a close second for me in this setting.

If there were specific teams, with setups fitting to those players Jordan would be my choice.

[2010splash]

behold ignorance in its purest state :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.

[ripthekik]

Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[gengiskhan]

Kareem & his unstoppable skyhook.

Rest of the 3 are PERIMETER players and need to prove themselves at Pro level.

[Just2McFly]

Kareem by a country mile.

Then Jordan

Lebron

Bird

[Living Being]

Dumb thread....no one is going to pick LeBron from that list.

[JerryWest]

Dumb thread....no one is going to pick LeBron from that list.
:violin:

[nycjeff45]

doesnt matter what league or level, you always go for the tallest guy that can ball...its that simple

[TheMan]

Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.
Shaq and Wilt say hi...

[La Frescobaldi]

Lew Alcindor out of UCLA is my first round draft pick over anybody I ever saw get drafted (thus excluding Wilt Chamberlain).

[JellyBean]

I got the captain, Kareem.

[Riley Martin]

Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.

This new generation is shit.

[TheMarkMadsen]

If you know how their careers turn out how can anybody choose Bird or Lebron over Jordan?

Jordan
Kareem
Bird

Lebron


Jordan dominated the League from 88-98, 12 combined regular season & finals MVPS. Dude was literally untouchable and after 91 never lost a playoff series (unless you wanna count his "comeback" loss to the magic..but we saw what happened after he had an entire off season to get back into bball shape)

There's no other player id rather build around than Mj, look at how many different rosters the dude won championshps with.

Also, everybody on that list besides MJ had a FMVP playing alongside them for atleast one of their championships.

Bird, Kareem & Lebron all won championships playing alongside OTHER FMVPS

[DatAsh]

If you know how their careers turn out how can anybody choose [X] or [Y] over [Z]?


Bias

[La Frescobaldi]

If you know how their careers turn out how can anybody choose Bird or Lebron over Jordan?

Jordan
Kareem
Bird

Lebron


Jordan dominated the League from 88-98, 12 combined regular season & finals MVPS. Dude was literally untouchable and after 91 never lost a playoff series (unless you wanna count his "comeback" loss to the magic..but we saw what happened after he had an entire off season to get back into bball shape)

There's no other player id rather build around than Mj, look at how many different rosters the dude won championshps with.

Also, everybody on that list besides MJ had a FMVP playing alongside them for atleast one of their championships.

Bird, Kareem & Lebron all won championships playing alongside OTHER FMVPS

Knowing how their careers turned out........??? I can't take Jordan over Jabbar, and I can't take either one of them over Chamberlain.

Those 3 guys stand alone in basketball that I have seen as it happened. Jordan was not better than they were.

[The Choken One]

Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

This is the mindset of the typical LeBron stan on this forum, and that is why this forum has been so chitty lately.

:hammerhead:

[Foster5k]

Jordan

/thread

[arifgokcen]

Bird or Kareem.

Both completely change the franchise that they were in their rookie year. Kareem took a 27 win team to a 56 win team. Bird took a 29 win team to a 61 win team. Bird had more success in a short time frame, but Kareem had more longevity.

You won't go wrong with either of those players, but it depends on the teammates surrounding them. I just think Bird and Kareem would offer the most success in their rookie year and continuing to do so through out their careers.

For those who has no idea about history of the game

Bird debuted for the Celtics during the 1979

[La Frescobaldi]

Jordan

/thread

Jabbar

/thread

[Rasheed1]

Give me either

Magic - A point guard who can be the floor general that magic was is an invaluable asset to start any team with. You can plug in different guys for him to run with, but that first piece would be the foundation of whatever the team would do

or

Kareem - A center of Kareem's caliber is a gimmie.. If I have the first pick in the draft and Kareem is on the board? book it! I need that guy to be my bread and butter, my anchor for the team.

[ZMonkey11]

haha, was Isaiah Thomas coaching the east that yr? must have been pretty awkward with MJ on the squad.

Nope. I think Isaiah Thomas was in elementary school at the time.

[arifgokcen]

If you know how their careers turn out how can anybody choose Bird or Lebron over Jordan?

Jordan
Kareem
Bird

Lebron


Jordan dominated the League from 88-98, 12 combined regular season & finals MVPS. Dude was literally untouchable and after 91 never lost a playoff series (unless you wanna count his "comeback" loss to the magic..but we saw what happened after he had an entire off season to get back into bball shape)

There's no other player id rather build around than Mj, look at how many different rosters the dude won championshps with.

Also, everybody on that list besides MJ had a FMVP playing alongside them for atleast one of their championships.

Bird, Kareem & Lebron all won championships playing alongside OTHER FMVPS

Playing alongside FMVP is one of the silliest arguments.

I dont think you realize how loaded especially 96-98 bulls teams are

They have the greatest wing defender this game has ever seen.

They have the best rebounder this game has ever seen.

They had greatest coach

They had one of the best 3pt specalists in the game.

They had kukoc coming of the bench for them for crying out loud.

You really dont understand how loaded this team really was or you just ignore it

[2010splash]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

This is the mindset of the typical LeBron stan on this forum, and that is why this forum has been so chitty lately.

:hammerhead:
Get out of here with that shiet. I'm so sick and tired of people overrating past players compared to LeBron. Bird and Magic and Kareem and Wilt were all inferior players to LeBron.

Wake up and open your eyes. Besides Jordan, LeBron is currently playing like the greatest player in NBA history. He's setting all kinds of efficiency records, leading his team to the second longest winning streak ever, putting up 30+ PER seasons in his sleep, dropping 45/15/5 at Boston in an elimination win or go home game, wreaking havoc defensively unlike any other forward ever has... and motherf*ckers want to say that Bird and Kareem were better players. :roll:

[arifgokcen]

And
I would pick assuming i dont know how they are gonna pan out based on their college or high school play

KAJ
Lebron
Bird
MJ

However seeing their careers
MJ(of course he doesnt retire in this scenario)
Kareem
Bird

I cant talk about lebron at this stage because we havent even seen the prime of his career yet

[jongib369]

Knowing how their careers turned out........??? I can't take Jordan over Jabbar, and I can't take either one of them over Chamberlain.

Those 3 guys stand alone in basketball that I have seen as it happened. Jordan was not better than they were.

Left him out to not be a Wilt stan :lol


http://mit.zenfs.com/207/2011/05/WiltKAJ.jpg

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36591327.jpg

[Legends66NBA7]

Depends on how the organization is going to market around them.

If it was for making the most money, it would be around Jordan and James. But since were talking about today's league, it's Abdul-Jabbar with Jordan followed behind him (could go either way). Then, I flip the coin between Bird and James.

I think there's better players out there too draft from than just these 4 (S. O'Neal, M. Johnson, etc.. were mentioned), so it would be interesting to see where people select who when taking taking into account the team concept, league rules today, and the direction of what the organization wants to focus on.

[DatAsh]

Assuming my goal is to maximize team success, assuming I don't know how their careers will pan out.

Kareem
Bird/Lebron
Jordan

assuming I do

Jordan
Kareem
Bird

Since I don't know how Lebron's career will end up, I can't include him in that second comparison.

[knicksman]

Where were you when Lebron was winning 60+ games with role players as his next best option?

even more idiotic saying Bird is a stat padder too...no wonder Knicks fans get a bad rep.

as i said lebron/bird will give you immediate wins no matter who their teammates are but they cant make the whole greater than the sum of its parts once paired with other players because of their statpadding tendencies. So you need superior talent to win with them coz a pippen type whos just another iguodala aint getting it done. In fact lebron already lost his first finals appearance with the heat despite having superior teammates. Its the same reason why bird never won multiple times in his prime. He got his first ring when he was not yet producing superstar numbers. Their impact is really not great like people make it seems to be. Just ask oscar. Coz statpadders are cancerous to a team. Theres a reason why duncan(for small markets) and russell are the winningest players in this league because they arent statpadders.

[knicksman]

Truth in its purest state. Only people in denial about LeBron's greatness would take Bird and Kareem over LeBron. People talk about LeBron's help in Miami, lmao. What about the trash he was single-handedly dragging to 66 win seasons in Cleveland? Kareem basically rode Magic's coattails to 3 of his titles. And as far as Bird... please. It's an insult to compare him to LeBron. It's like comparing Kobe (Bird) to Jordan (LeBron) - one player is clearly far better. LeBron and Jordan are the top 2 players of all-time. Simply revolutionized and dominated this game to an extent that no one else ever has.

LMAO you clearly are the dumbest poster in here. comparing bird to kobe when in fact lebron is the one who plays like bird and kobe to jordan. Theres a reason why kobes ring count is not even on par with the 2(bird and lebron) of them combined. Only idiots would think lebron is on par with jordan when we have seen statpadders like him before like robertson who won nothing and bird who only won one in his prime.

[Odinn]

LeBron still needs to prove something. He had an amazing playoff run in 2012 and having a historic season so far. But he suppose to get 2013 ring. There is no team which is capable of defeating the Heat in a best of 7 series. 2013 ring will be one of the easiest rings and will not affect his career/legacy greatly. I'll leave out LeBron until most of questionings about him being concluded.

My draft order would be like this;
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2. Larry Bird
3. Michael Jordan

[2010splash]

LMAO you clearly are the dumbest poster in here. comparing bird to kobe when in fact lebron is the one who plays like bird and kobe to jordan. Theres a reason why kobes ring count is not even on par with the 2(bird and lebron) of them combined. Only idiots would think lebron is on par with jordan when we have seen statpadders like him before like robertson who won nothing and bird who only won one in his prime.
Quit your crying son. WTF are you even rambling on about? Oscar Robertson is nowhere near LeBron's level. The Jordan comparison was in reference to their impact/dominance, not playing style. Jordan and LeBron are the two most dominant individual players to ever play. Kobe and Bird are similar in terms of impact, and neither was as good as LeBron/Jordan. LeBron has the next two titles locked up, which will complete a 3-peat. He will only be 30 by that point with another 6-7 years left to win more. He and Jordan will be regarded as the two greatest ever. Nobody else will deserve mention.

[knicksman]

Quit your crying son. WTF are you even rambling on about? Oscar Robertson is nowhere near LeBron's level. The Jordan comparison was in reference to their impact/dominance, not playing style. Jordan and LeBron are the two most dominant individual players to ever play. Kobe and Bird are similar in terms of impact, and neither was as good as LeBron/Jordan. LeBron has the next two titles locked up, which will complete a 3-peat. He will only be 30 by that point with another 6-7 years left to win more. He and Jordan will be regarded as the two greatest ever. Nobody else will deserve mention.

dude his career would end up worse than oscar had he not joined miami. And lol at impact. I think what youre trying to say is stats coz when it comes to impact, hes nowhere jordan or kobe just like bird is nowhere jordan. Only idiots thinks hes an impact player when clearly players like him are cancerous. Again look at oscar.

[2010splash]

dude his career would end up worse than oscar had he not joined miami. And lol at impact. I think what youre trying to say is stats coz when it comes to impact, hes nowhere jordan or kobe just like bird is nowhere jordan. Only idiots thinks hes an impact player when clearly players like him are cancerous. Again look at oscar.
Uh, no. He'd end up with like 6 MVP's even if he didn't join Miami (which he'll do now anyway), which is far better than Oscar's legacy. How can you even compare Kobe to Jordan? "Nowhere near Jordan or Kobe" as if Kobe himself is near Jordan. :roll:

LeBron is close to Jordan. Not better yet, but closer to Jordan than anyone who's ever played.

[avonbarksdale]

give me micheal jordan aka the greast to EVER PLAY THE GAME

[Greg Oden 50]

jordan...........
lebron needs to join all stars team,jordan never do this,he develope Pippen & Horace Grant and bring them to sucess,while James join a Team with Bosh & Wade :banana:

[eurobum]

If you know how their careers turn out how can anybody choose Bird or Lebron over Jordan?

Jordan
Kareem
Bird

Lebron


Jordan dominated the League from 88-98, 12 combined regular season & finals MVPS. Dude was literally untouchable and after 91 never lost a playoff series (unless you wanna count his "comeback" loss to the magic..but we saw what happened after he had an entire off season to get back into bball shape)

There's no other player id rather build around than Mj, look at how many different rosters the dude won championshps with.

Also, everybody on that list besides MJ had a FMVP playing alongside them for atleast one of their championships.

Bird, Kareem & Lebron all won championships playing alongside OTHER FMVPS

Great post, repped.

[knicksman]

Uh, no. He'd end up with like 6 MVP's even if he didn't join Miami (which he'll do now anyway), which is far better than Oscar's legacy. How can you even compare Kobe to Jordan? "Nowhere near Jordan or Kobe" as if Kobe himself is near Jordan. :roll:

LeBron is close to Jordan. Not better yet, but closer to Jordan than anyone who's ever played.

LOL please stop embarrassing yourself. At least oscar had one ring while lebron would be ringless despite the 6 mvps. He would end up as the most overrated player in history.

[midatlantic09]

LOL @ Bird being in the same category as Kareem, MJ, or even Lebron.

[willds09]

lebron shouldnt even be in this conversation, jamez is such a drama queen:lol

[2010splash]

LOL please stop embarrassing yourself. At least oscar had one ring while lebron would be ringless despite the 6 mvps. He would end up as the most overrated player in history.
Just go home dawg. My sides are splitting from laughing so hard at your posts. :roll:

First you compare Oscar to LeBron when anyone with a brain knows LeBron is 10x better.

As if that wasn't enough, you go on to compare Kobe to Jordan.

Then you say that LeBron isn't better than Kobe.

Jordan is the only player better than LeBron. Quit denying the truth.

And it's too bad LeBron actually HAS a title and is on his way to winning 4-5 more. You think history cares how many you think he would have won if he stayed in Cleveland?

[jlip]

LOL @ Bird being in the same category as Kareem, MJ, or even Lebron.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241244

[knicksman]

Just go home dawg. My sides are splitting from laughing so hard at your posts. :roll:

First you compare Oscar to LeBron when anyone with a brain knows LeBron is 10x better.

As if that wasn't enough, you go on to compare Kobe to Jordan.

Then you say that LeBron isn't better than Kobe.

Jordan is the only player better than LeBron. Quit denying the truth.

And it's too bad LeBron actually HAS a title and is on his way to winning 4-5 more. You think history cares how many you think he would have won if he stayed in Cleveland?

only idiots think lebron is better than kobe just like bird/robertson being better than jordan/magic. wade/bosh>>>>>>>>>>>shaq so he at least needs 4 more rings to equal kobe. I actually agree with you that kobe is not comparable to jordan but hes the closest to him while lebron is just another statpadder. The rings and game just speak for itself. Kobe maybe selfish but hes the same as jordan who cares more about the rings than stats. And thats the reason why lebron is never equal to even kobe coz hes just another oscar(statpadder)whos impact is not as great as idiots think he is.

[knicksman]

LOL @ Bird being in the same category as Kareem, MJ, or even Lebron.

LOL at pusy lebron being comparable to ultracompetitive players like bird, mj, kareem.

[2010splash]

only idiots think lebron is better than kobe just like bird/robertson being better than jordan/magic. wade/bosh>>>>>>>>>>>shaq so he at least needs 4 more rings to equal kobe. I actually agree with you that kobe is not comparable to jordan but hes the closest to him while lebron is just another statpadder. The rings and game just speak for itself. Kobe maybe selfish but hes the same as jordan who cares more about the rings than stats. And thats the reason why lebron is never equal to even kobe coz hes just another oscar(statpadder)whos impact is not as great as idiots think he is.
You've completely lost your mind scrub. I don't know if it's the years and years of LeBron dumping all over the Knicks that's clouding your judgement, but you're talking straight nonsense. Nobody thinks Bird is better than Jordan. Nobody (except Kobe fans) believes Kobe has ever been better than LeBron has been these past several years.

Kobe's rings = due to circumstances. Have LeBron drafted onto a team with prime Shaq and he'd have 6 titles by now. LeBron is on another world than Oscar and much better than Kobe as well.

You're realistically looking at a resume that includes 6-7 MVPs, 4-5 Finals MVPs when his career is over.

[Mr Exlax]

I guess I'm old school, but you gotta go with the big man.

[Kovach]

And if you do?

Bird while strictly prohibiting him to do any work at his mom's house.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bird while strictly prohibiting him to do any work at his mom's house.

:oldlol:

[Kovach]

Get out of here with that shiet. I'm so sick and tired of people overrating past players compared to LeBron. Bird and Magic and Kareem and Wilt were all inferior players to LeBron.

Wake up and open your eyes. Besides Jordan, LeBron is currently playing like the greatest player in NBA history. He's setting all kinds of efficiency records, leading his team to the second longest winning streak ever, putting up 30+ PER seasons in his sleep, dropping 45/15/5 at Boston in an elimination win or go home game, wreaking havoc defensively unlike any other forward ever has... and motherf*ckers want to say that Bird and Kareem were better players. :roll:
Well, you don't go around shouting how select grade beef is the best type of beef ever and then crying when people call BS on it. Yes, it may be good enough to dominate low quality fast food chains but haute cuisine it ain't. Hope this helps :cheers:

[b1imtf]

LeBron, the rest are retired

[chains5000]

As a fan, Bird (I already watched Jordan enough).
If I was a GM, Kareem.

[Pointguard]

MJ because he's had the most success. While I think he is the best individual player hands down, it doesn't mean he's the best for most winning team chemistry. If there is only one star on each team I pick Jordan. The second you add another star, Jordan's value dips a bit and he is nolonger the obvious pick.

Philosophically, two's and four's are supposed to be complementary support pieces - not the primary pieces.

Building is easiest around a dominant center. So one would go with Kareem as being easiest to build around. But look at Kareem's career before Magic. Magic and Bird made the league more exciting and perimeter based. They also put Chess in the game by being involved mentally in controlling the game in other dimensions.

Bird and Lebron could play with anybody and magnify their talents. So they are the easiest and the most adjustable for any upcoming draft or free agency. So I picked the deepest draft I could think of "96 and '84
Iverson, Abdur Raheem, Kobe, Stepon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Stojakavich, Nash, Jermaine O'neal, Zydrunas IIgauskas, Marcus Camby, Derek Fisher and Ben Wallace

Add 1984 Hakeem, Barkley, Thorpe, Alvin Roberston, Stockton, Perkins, Bowie, Kevin Willis, Sam Perkins,

Meaning Kobe, Akeem, Barkley and Iverson are co-stars. So Jordan, nolonger is at an advantage as he can only have a semblance of coexistence with Akeem (ok that is guess work but you have to kind of believe that). The next tier is Allen, Nash, B Wallace, Robertson, Stockton or Stojakavich. Then Perkins, Starbury, Camby, Z, Jermaine, Raheem,Thorpe etc.

To me its obvious that Bird and Lebron harmonizing and making the second, third, fourth and fifth players better is the difference here. At least, so is the way I see it.

[clayton]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block. :bowdown: :bowdown:
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.

[TheMan]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block. :bowdown: :bowdown:
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Larry having HOF team mates while Jordan had no one should be taken into consideration...

[dh144498]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block. :bowdown: :bowdown:
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.

this. 90s = watered down era. The talents were DILUtED.

[knicksman]

You've completely lost your mind scrub. I don't know if it's the years and years of LeBron dumping all over the Knicks that's clouding your judgement, but you're talking straight nonsense. Nobody thinks Bird is better than Jordan. Nobody (except Kobe fans) believes Kobe has ever been better than LeBron has been these past several years.

Kobe's rings = due to circumstances. Have LeBron drafted onto a team with prime Shaq and he'd have 6 titles by now. LeBron is on another world than Oscar and much better than Kobe as well.

You're realistically looking at a resume that includes 6-7 MVPs, 4-5 Finals MVPs when his career is over.


LOL the only reason why bird is not better than jordan/magic is because of rings same with oscar but statistically speaking bird/oscar beats magic/kobe and oscar/lebron beats jordan. But impact wise, they are not as impactful as jordan/magic/kobe. Their combined rings are 5 which is only good as one of either kobe/magic/jordan. It is what it is my friend. If you have the IQ as high as mine, you would realize that statpadding doesnt mean impact in this league. Or else players like duncan and russell wouldnt be impactful players. Jordan tried it before with his 32 8 8 and his team sucks more than the season before. So unless lebron change his game, he would just end up as one of those guys.

[knicksman]

MJ because he's had the most success. While I think he is the best individual player hands down, it doesn't mean he's the best for most winning team chemistry. If there is only one star on each team I pick Jordan. The second you add another star, Jordan's value dips a bit and he is nolonger the obvious pick.

Philosophically, two's and four's are supposed to be complementary support pieces - not the primary pieces.

Building is easiest around a dominant center. So one would go with Kareem as being easiest to build around. But look at Kareem's career before Magic. Magic and Bird made the league more exciting and perimeter based. They also put Chess in the game by being involved mentally in controlling the game in other dimensions.

Bird and Lebron could play with anybody and magnify their talents. So they are the easiest and the most adjustable for any upcoming draft or free agency. So I picked the deepest draft I could think of "96 and '84
Iverson, Abdur Raheem, Kobe, Stepon Marbury, Ray Allen, Antoine Walker, Stojakavich, Nash, Jermaine O'neal, Zydrunas IIgauskas, Marcus Camby, Derek Fisher and Ben Wallace

Add 1984 Hakeem, Barkley, Thorpe, Alvin Roberston, Stockton, Perkins, Bowie, Kevin Willis, Sam Perkins,

Meaning Kobe, Akeem, Barkley and Iverson are co-stars. So Jordan, nolonger is at an advantage as he can only have a semblance of coexistence with Akeem (ok that is guess work but you have to kind of believe that). The next tier is Allen, Nash, B Wallace, Robertson, Stockton or Stojakavich. Then Perkins, Starbury, Camby, Z, Jermaine, Raheem,Thorpe etc.

To me its obvious that Bird and Lebron harmonizing and making the second, third, fourth and fifth players better is the difference here. At least, so is the way I see it.

yah thats why jordan needed superstar talents in rodman and pippen rather than wade and bosh. LOL same with bird who needed HOF talents compared to past prime kareem for magic and yet only managed 3 rings.

[La Frescobaldi]

this. 90s = watered down era. The talents were DILUtED.

And so it begins.

[midatlantic09]

LOL at pusy lebron being comparable to ultracompetitive players like bird, mj, kareem.

LOL @ Birds career PER of 23.5. He may be the most overrated ball player that ever lived; aside from the rings, the guy is on par with Barkley and Garnett as an individual player, not MJ/Kareem/Lebron.

[ILLsmak]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Larry having HOF team mates while Jordan had no one should be taken into consideration...

Hall of Fame before Bird? Who, like Walton?

I'm taking LARRY. Everyone has a case, though. To me, Larry would play the hardest and would fit with the most supporting casts. Of course, in today's NBA you can say LeBron is the best because having a primary ball handler that gets you 30 is important. Still, as long as someone could run a halfway decent offense and get the ball to Larry, it'd be good.

I think Bron, MJ, and Kareem may be regarded as better than Larry when it's all said and done... and I never got to watch Bird day in and day out, but from what I have seen of him, he's one of the only players that has wowed me in a WAT sort of way. I'm not surprised by people doing crazy dunks anymore, but the shit Larry did was amazing. Those shots...

I really wish he had better health, but I think he played too hard and trained too hard.

also Edit: Lol at PER.

-Smak

[Thorpesaurous]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.

[jongib369]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/golf-clap.gif

[HannibalKid]

Gotta go with Kareem.

[beau_boy04]

The most logical pick would be Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Building around a dominant center such as Kareem would be easier than a wing such as Jordan. With all the hype around Kareem in his college days but then you have the 1984 Olympics where Jordan showcased all his skills, so either Jordan or Jabbar for me.

[arifgokcen]

LOL the only reason why bird is not better than jordan/magic is because of rings same with oscar but statistically speaking bird/oscar beats magic/kobe and oscar/lebron beats jordan. But impact wise, they are not as impactful as jordan/magic/kobe. Their combined rings are 5 which is only good as one of either kobe/magic/jordan. It is what it is my friend. If you have the IQ as high as mine, you would realize that statpadding doesnt mean impact in this league. Or else players like duncan and russell wouldnt be impactful players. Jordan tried it before with his 32 8 8 and his team sucks more than the season before. So unless lebron change his game, he would just end up as one of those guys.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
what a delusional fan

[guy]

Bird. MJ never got past Bird, known as the MJ-road-block. :bowdown: :bowdown:
It was only when Bird was near retirement that MJ finally got a ring in a weak ass era.

:oldlol:

[knicksman]

Team building is one of my favorite excercises. And as much as I get the MJ is Goat argument, he's a really tough guy to build around.

Offensively he occupies the block, which means you need to find a Center who can space the weakside of the floor. And you can't use a traditional PG because he's going to dominate the ball in the half court, so you want a PG to space the floor too. One of the biggest cases for Jordan being so difficult to build around is Pippen, who is one of the weirdest, most gap filling players of all time. He handles the ball as the PG on one end, can run the Fast Break as a PG, can defend the PG on the other end, but still out rebound and defend the rim at his position allowing him to cover up for the limitations that are generally found in Centers who can space the floor.

I firmly believe that the game is easiest to effect from the inside out, and while that's less the case in today's game, I'd still take Kareem first. He's not a plodder, and can even space from the block too more than most bigs historically. And he impacts the court defensively even more than Jordan or Lebron who are historically good defenders.

Bird and Lebron are close to me. They both bring a multitude of skills to the table, which would be what I'm looking for from the ground up. Bird's advantage obviously being his shooting, vs. Lebron's athleticism and defense. I'd also give Bird a pretty serious nod in the post department, but this year and going forward it appears Lebron has figured that out, and that gap will close over time.
The argument for Bird as a building block is that he's the most capable of all the truely great players to play off the ball. If you're starting from scratch, and you get your hands on someone else in addition to Bird, he's the most equipped to play with any of the other greats, because his shooting allows him to stretch the floor more than the other guys, and he can truely play inside and out, with or without the ball.
Gun to my head I'd probably take Lebron two because I know I can build an entire defense around him switching, but it's a really close call.


Actually its easier to build around mj than lebron/bird. I dont see lebron/pippen working and pippen type of players are a dime a dozen in this league. Its the same for magic, people are saying lebron/bird are better than magic but its easier to build around him thats why he won more rings. Players who are more focused on one role are easier to build than statpadders because they provide quality skills rather than quantity of skills. thats why oscar was a loser.

[Micku]

Actually its easier to build around mj than lebron/bird. I dont see lebron/pippen working and pippen type of players are a dime a dozen in this league. Its the same for magic, people are saying lebron/bird are better than magic but its easier to build around him thats why he won more rings. Players who are more focused on one role are easier to build than statpadders because they provide quality skills rather than quantity of skills. thats why oscar was a loser.

How so?

I actually don't see that. I think both are great, but Bird is the guy who turned around a sucky team to a championship contender in his rookie year.

I think if MJ had a better team, like if the 86 Bulls team had a chance to actually play together longer with MJ in the lineup, then they would've been a fun team to watch. Or if MJ had a big man. But Bird didn't have a good center when first to the Celtics. He just transform the team.

I would probably take MJ if the team is already good. Especially in his early stages of his career. But I would take Bird to make a team great.

[bagelred]

Michael Jordan


Obvious choice is obvious.

[red1]

I'll take jordan. even though kareem might be better to build around since he would be the best big in the league by FAR, mj is still mj so not only do you get the GOAT you also get the most exciting player of all time

[knicksman]

How so?

I actually don't see that. I think both are great, but Bird is the guy who turned around a sucky team to a championship contender in his rookie year.

I think if MJ had a better team, like if the 86 Bulls team had a chance to actually play together longer with MJ in the lineup, then they would've been a fun team to watch. Or if MJ had a big man. But Bird didn't have a good center when first to the Celtics. He just transform the team.

I would probably take MJ if the team is already good. Especially in his early stages of his career. But I would take Bird to make a team great.


because jordan provides quality skill rather quantity of skills. he provides elite scoring that no one in the league can same with magic with his elite passing. Whereas what lebron/bird provides can be provided by another player like their playmaking which can be provided by pippen. This is not a one-on-one league so I prefer players who specializes on something rather than an all around player master of none.