Why did Lebron-led Cavs fail to win the title?

[jack612blue]

I know the Cavs couldn't get over the hump of the Celtics for years.

Why was that?

The Celtics would pack the paint and dare someone else to beat them. Well Lebron had Mo, and other spot-up shooters surrounding him consistently. How come that they didn't work out?

[Odinn]

I know the Cavs couldn't get over the hump of the Celtics for years.

Why was that?

The Celtics would pack the paint and dare someone else to beat them. Well Lebron had Mo, and other spot-up shooters surrounding him consistently. How come that they didn't work out?
Wow. What a great player(2nd option) to win the title with.

[RedBlackAttack]

Never seen this thread before. Wonder how it will turn out?

[FatComputerNerd]

Because we used Jamison to guard Garnett instead of Varejao

Rondo also played out of this world, and Allen hit some BIG shots.

[Whoah10115]

The Celtics were a much better team. That is why the Cavs couldn't beat them.

[Nash]

Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Lebron James
Antawn Jamison
Illgauskas

Small hint.

[christian1923]

Lebron didn't show up like he usually did in the regular season.

It wasnt a great team around him so he had to play perfect and he didnt like he usually did

[jimmy77x]

nb4 lebronytes come to defend their man....too late.

[taucesays]

Because they weren't that good. They were dominant in the trash heap of the east. That's about it.

[Whoah10115]

Mo Williams
Anthony Parker
Lebron James
Antawn Jamison
Illgauskas

Small hint.


What about Delonte West, who was the actual starter at the 2? The team was very good, tho I do agree they weren't good enough to actually win a title. They were merely very good regular season Eastern Conference team.

[lebeast666]

They would have. But Boston just had to go and form the big 3.

[willds09]

Cuz they weren't supposed to make it there in tha first place:confusedshrug:

[kNicKz]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/ReggieChoke.jpg

[willds09]

They would have. But Boston just had to go and form the big 3.
I know u ain't talking:lol

[ripthekik]

Because they weren't that good. They were dominant in the trash heap of the east. That's about it.
league best record for how many years?
any team that wins 60+ is no joke, period.

[TerranOP]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/willima01.html#all_playoffs_per_game

Mo was their second best player, and somehow he scored FEWER points in the playoffs even though he played more minutes. His shooting percentage was way below what he shot during the regular reason. The team wasn't very good, but the Lebron/Mo combo made them a huge force in the regular season. Mo didn't show up in the playoffs, so that greatly reduced the effectiveness of the team.

Lebron generally played very well in the playoffs, but his attitude in the Boston series in 2010 was also detrimental to the Cavs' success.

[Big Cheese]

If you want a legit non trollish answer.
their offense was prehistoric and very easy to stop.

Coach nick did a breakdown of each game if you are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqum4AbEbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBz-Z0Qbu9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g881FNFv2gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilXyVc8mBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60YWxNt9zbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuO9p8slSI

[Kblaze8855]

If I took like...10 minutes...I bet I could name 30 teams who I wouldnt trade their second best player for the entire 2007-2009 Cavs roster Lebron aside. And thats without any kinda multiple use of the same player(say...Pippen in 90, 91, 91, and so on).

It would be a challenge...but I could do it.

[kNicKz]

Mo williams was better than Antawn Jamison?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

What about Delonte West, who was the actual starter at the 2? The team was very good, tho I do agree they weren't good enough to actually win a title. They were merely very good regular season Eastern Conference team.

Get your facts straight, Parker was the starter. And to the OP, Mo Williams played horribly in back to back postseasons.

[Twiens]

Cuz his elbow hurt

[TerranOP]

If you want a legit non trollish answer.
their offense was prehistoric and very easy to stop.

Coach nick did a breakdown of each game if you are interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqum4AbEbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBz-Z0Qbu9M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g881FNFv2gA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jilXyVc8mBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60YWxNt9zbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkuO9p8slSI


These are some excellent videos regarding this situation, thanks for posting them. They really show that the Cavs' didn't have any true offensive sets. It was basically give it to Lebron and hope something good happens, often times resulting in Lebron taking long jumpers. When the game is slowed down in the playoffs, offensive execution becomes paramount. The Cavs didn't have any offense to execute, so they lost. Mike Brown :(

[clayton]

LeBron had the Euro GOAT Anthony Parker. Yet, he still lost it all. :applause:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GaxYT56Bpb8/T1R4dERJYRI/AAAAAAAADMQ/4dBb6RDj6Jc/s800/AP%2520statue.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

LOL at the Knicks fans talking trash. Win more than one playoff game in 10 years and than talk shit.

[kNicKz]

http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lebron-james-on-the-sports-illustrated-cover-with-shaq.jpeg

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/issue-133-shaq-lebron.jpg

*post season arrives*
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/lebron_choking.JPG

http://lazylol.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-missing.jpg

[willds09]

Cuz his elbow hurt
:roll:

[willds09]

http://ashelt76.tripod.com/Shaq_LeBron.jpgp


http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/lebron_choking.JPG
:roll:

[pegasus]

Because Lebron didn't have two superstar teammates in their primes, every other team in the league didn't miss their superstars, and there were more than 66 games in the regular season.

* * *

[willds09]

LOL at the Knicks fans talking trash. Win more than one playoff game in 10 years and than talk shit.
I guess u gonna shut tha phuck up this spring huh?:lol

[kNicKz]

LOL at the Knicks fans talking trash. Win more than one playoff game in 10 years and than talk shit.

http://www.pisd.net/pisd/hs/students/delano/lebron1.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

http://blog.cakepoker.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/5/lebron-james-knicks-bound.jpg

[SilkkTheShocker]

I guess u gonna shut tha phuck up this spring huh?:lol


http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/05/carmelo-anthonys-playoff-record-is-nbas-worst-in-20-years/1#.UVXcmVeKLYQ

[willds09]

http://blog.cakepoker.eu/wp-content/uploads/2010/5/lebron-james-knicks-bound.jpg
Thats exactly why James is a bish had everybody thinking he was coming to n.y, he got scared of tha pressure:lol

[Shade8780]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/ReggieChoke.jpg
:')

[willds09]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2012/05/carmelo-anthonys-playoff-record-is-nbas-worst-in-20-years/1#.UVXcmVeKLYQ
Keywords THIS SPRING, I guess u can't read:lol

[kNicKz]

the funniest part of it is that silkktheshocker would be a knicks fan right now if Lebron went to NY :roll:

[Shade8780]

Keywords THIS SPRING, I guess u can't read:lol
He's living in the past, man. That's his only comeback.

[willds09]

the funniest part of it is that silkktheshocker would be a knicks fan right now if Lebron went to NY :roll:
He definitely would, dats krazy:lol

[willds09]

He's living in the past, man. That's his only comeback.
Yea I see that:lol

[Whoah10115]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/ReggieChoke.jpg


Just because they were all slurping LeBron doesn't mean they have any idea what they're talking about. The Cavs had no chance of beating that team.

[Y2Gezee]

Cavs weren't a good enough roster to actually win a championship. Would've been a mediocre seed in the West.

But for an Eastern conference team with Lebron James leading the offense and Mike Brown's defense leading the way...it wasn't as bad a roster as people make it out to be.

I mean no one said anything when he was Gilbert Arena's #2, but Antawn Jamison was a consistent #2-#3 option, especially in the East. Mo Williams was playing well, made an allstar team and was knocking down shots and good playmaker (at the time I would've taken him over Billups... I was on record saying the Pistons should trade Billups for Mo and Denver the same deal). Zydrunas had real size and a consistent scorer both in the post and off the pick and pop. Plus Verajao's hustle, off ball movement, rebounding and defense.

But again, along with Lebron James and in the East (as weak as it was)...not a bad roster. Not a championship roster, but nothing worse than what many other stars have had to deal with in worse circumstances.

[The Choken One]

LeBron is a poor leader. He can't win as the clear #1 guy. The pressure gets to him. Now, he has Wade to take a lot of pressure off of him. He wasn't mentally tough enough to get HIS team over the hump.

LeBron/Wade is another example of Shaq/Kobe. It's a 1a/1b type of thing.

[willds09]

LeBron is a poor leader. He can't win as the clear #1 guy. The pressure gets to him. Now, he has Wade to take a lot of pressure off of him. He wasn't mentally tough enough to get HIS team over the hump.

LeBron/Wade is another example of Shaq/Kobe. It's a 1a/1b type of thing.
Im glad u say that especially since alot of people claim that shaq carried Kobe for three rings:rolleyes:

[Whoah10115]

Mo Williams was playing well, made an allstar team and was knocking down shots and good playmaker (at the time I would've taken him over Billups... I was on record saying the Pistons should trade Billups for Mo and Denver the same deal).


That's some kind of bad deal. There's no universe where the team trading away Billups doesn't lose.


LeBron is a poor leader. He can't win as the clear #1 guy. The pressure gets to him. Now, he has Wade to take a lot of pressure off of him. He wasn't mentally tough enough to get HIS team over the hump.

LeBron/Wade is another example of Shaq/Kobe. It's a 1a/1b type of thing.


At least you're not biased.

[jimmy77x]

the funniest part of it is that silkktheshocker would be a knicks fan right now if Lebron went to NY :roll:

He would be the biggest knicks fan here no doubt :roll: :roll:

[dh144498]

becuase lebron is a choker. He needs at least 2 top 10 players in their primes on his team to finally win one to take the pressure off himself.

Cavs a top seed in the league in the regualr season, everyone says they will win the chip. Then they lose because of lechoke, then all the bangwagon d1ckriders say his teammates are scrubs. :lol :roll:

[ILLsmak]

I think LeBron would have eventually won the title. And soon, look at how much the Cs declined. Now they broke it up. Who else could beat them in the East? No one.

They didn't win the title because it wasn't their time. Look at teams that were good but just didn't win... like 94-95 Magic. It's just the way it happened. Shit could have been different, but it wasn't.

-Smak

[willds09]

I think LeBron would have eventually won the title. And soon, look at how much the Cs declined. Now they broke it up. Who else could beat them in the East? No one.

They didn't win the title because it wasn't their time. Look at teams that were good but just didn't win... like 94-95 Magic. It's just the way it happened. Shit could have been different, but it wasn't.

-Smak
Lets be real tha cavs didn't win, cuz Lebron choked and quit on his damn teammates when tha pressure was getting to him in tha playoffs and lucky finals appearance:no:

[ripthekik]

http://www.unsportsmanlike.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/lebron-james-on-the-sports-illustrated-cover-with-shaq.jpeg

http://www.slamonline.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/issue-133-shaq-lebron.jpg

*post season arrives*
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/lebron_choking.JPG

http://lazylol.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-missing.jpg
beautifully put.
:applause:

[Y2Gezee]

That's some kind of bad deal. There's no universe where the team trading away Billups doesn't lose.



Detroit? Maybe not. They needed to go in a different direction. But Williams was as productive at that point, if not more. Billups was done until he was able to move to play off of a true star like Melo. That by committee stuff in Detroit was over, because he wasn't good enough to hold his own.

Billups is a smart player that could score the ball, but he's been heavily overrated. He's inefficient and an inconsistent scorer, and not a break your defense down type playmaker. And not a great defender. He's really been a combo guard his whole career, that likes to jack up 3s. He's more like Andre Miller with a great jumper. He's not a tempo setter, but a guy that can slow the pace down and calm the team down when they're out of control. That's good to some degree, but what it boils down to in this discussion is he was never a great 2nd option for any team, and at that point he was an old chucker. Mo Gotti was much more dynamic at that stage. As good a shooter, if not better, and could penetrate and make plays.

[pmj]

The Heat needed Lebron dominating, Wade and Bosh playing well, Battier having a great game 1 and 2, Chalmers having a great game 4, Miller game 5, etc. to win the Finals. That's how it needs to happen, multiple ppl have to step up.

We saw in 2011 the same thing with everyone in Dallas plaing out of their mind and the Heat only having Wade and Bosh have good series's.

I don't think you can expect one player to always play out of their mind or else they are a choker, and that was his situation in Cleveland in the playoffs.

[Ikill]

lots of reasons why they didn't win every year was different

[tmacattack33]

I know the Cavs couldn't get over the hump of the Celtics for years.

Why was that?

The Celtics would pack the paint and dare someone else to beat them. Well Lebron had Mo, and other spot-up shooters surrounding him consistently. How come that they didn't work out?


Exactly...you said it right there. Lebron was surrounded by a bunch of spot up shooters.

I don't recall any super-star ever winning with just a bunch of spot up shooters around them.

I don't recall a super-star ever taking a bunch of spot up shooters to the Finals either.

[Flash31]

Seriously whats the point of these threads besides to troll.
Some of yall have absolutely no life at all,just saying something to cause a reaction bc you get absolutely zero attention from anybody in reality and you need reassurance that you mean something to somebody bc in reality youre on a message board trolling 24/7 and just going by posts have absolutely zero life outside of here.

Its beyond pathetic.Its not just LeBron hate or praise type threads,its also Kobe type threads for the most part.Theres also the knick,bull type godly worship especially knicks or the rep a team but contstantly trash it and praise another.I mean Seriously is that all yall do,whats the point.Either yall are the most delusional,paranoid,arrogant,loud mouthed,trolling Skip Baylesses of the internet
or yall are beyond mentally challenged and have the iq of a rock.

[willds09]

Seriously whats the point of these threads besides to troll.
Some of yall have absolutely no life at all,just saying something to cause a reaction bc you get absolutely zero attention from anybody in reality and you need reassurance that you mean something to somebody bc in reality youre on a message board trolling 24/7 and just going by posts have absolutely zero life outside of here.

Its beyond pathetic.Its not just LeBron hate or praise type threads,its also Kobe type threads for the most part.Theres also the knick,bull type godly worship especially knicks or the rep a team but contstantly trash it and praise another.I mean Seriously is that all yall do,whats the point.Either yall are the most delusional,paranoid,arrogant,loud mouthed,trolling Skip Baylesses of the internet
or yall are beyond mentally challenged and have the iq of a rock.
Somebody hug this niguh:lol

[Flash31]

Somebody hug this niguh:lol


Just cause you put a smiley face doesnt mean everybody doesnt know what you do and how you feel.Its ok the Knicks might get relevant and be contenders some year just not now.

[francesco totti]

it was 1 vs 4

pierce, garnett, ray allen and rondo . class A players, none of 2nd option in cleveland is as good of any of those.


i think he shoulda beat orlando , but boston was easily logical.

[willds09]

Just cause you put a smiley face doesnt mean everybody doesnt know what you do and how you feel.Its ok the Knicks might get relevant and be contenders some year just not now.
Keep thinking dat sir :lol

[willds09]

it was 1 vs 4

pierce, garnett, ray allen and rondo . class A players, none of 2nd option in cleveland is as good of any of those.


i think he shoulda beat orlando , but boston was easily logical.
come on man u saw that series in 2010 , Lebron gave up on his team in tha 4th quarter just like 2007 vs spurs, and 2009 vs magic

[Whoah10115]

Detroit? Maybe not. They needed to go in a different direction. But Williams was as productive at that point, if not more. Billups was done until he was able to move to play off of a true star like Melo. That by committee stuff in Detroit was over, because he wasn't good enough to hold his own.

Billups is a smart player that could score the ball, but he's been heavily overrated. He's inefficient and an inconsistent scorer, and not a break your defense down type playmaker. And not a great defender. He's really been a combo guard his whole career, that likes to jack up 3s. He's more like Andre Miller with a great jumper. He's not a tempo setter, but a guy that can slow the pace down and calm the team down when they're out of control. That's good to some degree, but what it boils down to in this discussion is he was never a great 2nd option for any team, and at that point he was an old chucker. Mo Gotti was much more dynamic at that stage. As good a shooter, if not better, and could penetrate and make plays.


I think you're wrong on all of this. First of all, he's a very good defender. Always was. Second, he's nothing resembling a combo guard. He's an old-school PG. He runs the offense. He's neither pass-first nor shoot-first. He takes what's there. But even being a shoot-first guy wouldn't make him a combo guard. He's a prototypical PG. His FG% is usually not very high but he takes a lot of 3's and hits them at a high percentage. He's also one of the best FT shooters in the history of the game and he gets to the line a lot.


He didn't play off of Melo in Denver. Melo played off of him that first year. Billups ran the team and was easily their best player. Anthony led the team in scoring, tho his scoring went down a lot. Even his FG% went down. You'd think the opposite, going from AI to Billups, but Billups focused on the team and not on Anthony. Carmelo was great in the playoffs tho. And Billups was better there, too.


The reason it wasn't working in Detroit was because of how overrated the professionalism of that team really is. They were all full of themselves. They didn't take the Cavs seriously, and LeBron killed them for it. They should have been in the Finals in 06 but somehow didn't take the Heat seriously, while Wade was the best player on the floor. They have a history of that and, despite reaching 6 straight ECF's, they are overrated. But Billups wasn't any worse of a player.


If Billups played on the Cavs in 2009 then there's a good chance they beat the Magic.

[All Net]

Look at the rosters he had there.. There's your answer.

[jbryan1984]

2010 Post Season LeBron did not play like 2010 regular season LeBron.

Rondo raped Mo.

Allen p*ssed on Parker.

KG $hit on Jamison. Varejao should of been on him more.

Shaq played well against Perk.

Our bench was also decent.

But in the end of all that, Celtics > Cavs

[Lebron23]

Look at the rosters he had there.. There's your answer.

This

http://media.syracuse.com/post-standard/photo/163650-standard.jpg

[Lebron23]

2010 Post Season LeBron did not play like 2010 regular season LeBron.

Rondo raped Mo.

Allen p*ssed on Parker.

KG $hit on Jamison. Varejao should of been on him more.

Shaq played well against Perk.

Our bench was also decent.

But in the end of all that, Celtics > Cavs


Mike Brown also benched JJ Hickson in the 2009-10 playoffs.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CPa7smcOHY4/TMla27ygorI/AAAAAAAAADQ/8w2G36k8Xkw/s1600/jj_hickson.jpg

[JohnnySic]

The Lakers would have swept them in '09 and beat them in 6 in '10. Its for the best that they didn't make it that far.

[NBASTATMAN]

Mike Brown also benched JJ Hickson in the 2009-10 playoffs.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CPa7smcOHY4/TMla27ygorI/AAAAAAAAADQ/8w2G36k8Xkw/s1600/jj_hickson.jpg


I never understood why he did that. How many wins did that Cavs team win without Lebron?

That Cavs team choked but it wasn't vs the Celts it was vs Orlando the prior year. The Celts would have beaten the Lakers if Perkins didn't get hurt and the Refs didn't award the Lakers 20 something frees in the fourth quarter of game 7.

Something I predicted... :rockon:

[NBASTATMAN]

The Lakers would have swept them in '09 and beat them in 6 in '10. Its for the best that they didn't make it that far.


I agree. The Cavs couldn' t handle Lamar or Pau. They would have been toast.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron in Clevland played with Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Andy V, Shaq, Antwan Jaminson, JJ Hickson, Mo Williams, Delonte West etc etc

For 2 straight years they were favorites to win it all

Even when the Lakers were winning b2b all you ever heard about was Cle chances at a title next year..

Those Cavs teams were heavy favorites for every playoff series they played from 07 to 10.

[Lebron23]

I agree. The Cavs couldn' t handle Lamar or Pau. They would have been toast.


Cavaliers swept the Lakers in the regular season They matched up pretty well with the 08-10 Lakers.

[willds09]

Cavaliers swept the Lakers in the regular season They matched up pretty well with the 08-10 Lakers.
They didn't had a chance:facepalm

[Ancient Legend]

They didn't had a chance:facepalm

They didn't HAVE a chance. Where are kids learning spelling these days? :facepalm

[willds09]

They didn't HAVE a chance. Where are kids learning spelling these days? :facepalm
I guess we in English class right bish ass??:facepalm :rolleyes:

[Whoah10115]

Lebron in Clevland played with Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Andy V, Shaq, Antwan Jaminson, JJ Hickson, Mo Williams, Delonte West etc etc

For 2 straight years they were favorites to win it all

Even when the Lakers were winning b2b all you ever heard about was Cle chances at a title next year..

Those Cavs teams were heavy favorites for every playoff series they played from 07 to 10.



They were favorites but who knows what they're talking about. Adande is wrong with such regularity it's sad. It's just easy hype-watching. With the new breed of sports journalists I wonder if they even really know anything about sports. Basketball, in particular.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron in Clevland played with Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Andy V, Shaq, Antwan Jaminson, JJ Hickson, Mo Williams, Delonte West etc etc

For 2 straight years they were favorites to win it all

Even when the Lakers were winning b2b all you ever heard about was Cle chances at a title next year..

Those Cavs teams were heavy favorites for every playoff series they played from 07 to 10.

Way to spin it moron. U act like that was his team for years over there. Boozer was gone after lebrons 2nd year Shaq played 1 yr on his last legs. Andy was a little better version of Birdman. Z was a statue who could barely move. Hickson was young and raw. Mo was made cause of Lebron. West also only a nice role player. U see Lebron made the cavs good teams as he carried and made role players look better but also had young guys and fossils who were not ready for championship run. If u took every guy u mentioned in their prime at their best its another story but it is far from the case.

How about prime mo,L hughes,lebron,boozer,Shaq with Jamison,Andy,z, boobie, West as the backups yeah that team is stacked.

[NBASTATMAN]

Cavaliers swept the Lakers in the regular season They matched up pretty well with the 08-10 Lakers.


Not in 09

[Cangri]

The Heat needed Lebron dominating, Wade and Bosh playing well, Battier having a great game 1 and 2, Chalmers having a great game 4, Miller game 5, etc. to win the Finals. That's how it needs to happen, multiple ppl have to step up.

We saw in 2011 the same thing with everyone in Dallas plaing out of their mind and the Heat only having Wade and Bosh have good series's.

I don't think you can expect one player to always play out of their mind or else they are a choker, and that was his situation in Cleveland in the playoffs.
This, I even remember Lebron playing GREAT against the Magic in 2009 and some people still say that he choked in that series :facepalm

[willds09]

This, I even remember Lebron playing GREAT against the Magic in 2009 and some people still say that he choked in that series :facepalm
He did in that last game he sure did:lol

[TheMarkMadsen]

They were favorites but who knows what they're talking about. Adande is wrong with such regularity it's sad. It's just easy hype-watching. With the new breed of sports journalists I wonder if they even really know anything about sports. Basketball, in particular.


It wasn't just a few journalist.. it was everywhere.

http://highbridnation.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/slam-lebron-vs-kobe.jpg

This is from 09 & it's basically saying that the Cavs were a lock for the finals and they would meet the Lakers if the Lakers were able to get past Denver.. They had the Cavs as a lock to make the finals..

I remember this stuff because as a fan of the Lakers, i felt like they were getting truly disrespected by the media from 08-10 because the focus was never 100% on their recent championships because the media was to obsessed about Lebron possibly winning a ring the next year

[jbryan1984]

Had Byron Scott coached instead of Mike Brown..... How different would of things went?

Brown just has no clue on offense. He sat Shaq when he was healthy and waited till the playoffs. Sat Hickson during the playoffs when he had been playing during the season, starting at the 5.

[NattyPButter]

Because we used Jamison to guard Garnett instead of Varejao

Rondo also played out of this world, and Allen hit some BIG shots.

don't forget Mo Williams would go missing during the playoffs and sucking up the place.

[DMAVS41]

There is absolutely no objective measure or standard that could be used to evaluate Lebron's help and coaching from 07 to 10 that would lead you to think it was championship caliber.

Now, having said that, clearly those Cavs teams were better than the sum of their parts.

I actually thought they had a legit chance in 09, but when you have real weaknesses on the court and on the sideline with your coach, it makes it very difficult to overcomes some bad breaks and another team getting hot. Which is what happened in that Magic series. It was kind of a fluke...and Rashard Lewis was juicing...and probably Hedo as well. But again, a team is more open to stuff like that happening when they don't have more than 1 star player...and an average at best coach.

[Whoah10115]

It wasn't just a few journalist.. it was everywhere.

http://highbridnation.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/slam-lebron-vs-kobe.jpg

This is from 09 & it's basically saying that the Cavs were a lock for the finals and they would meet the Lakers if the Lakers were able to get past Denver.. They had the Cavs as a lock to make the finals..

I remember this stuff because as a fan of the Lakers, i felt like they were getting truly disrespected by the media from 08-10 because the focus was never 100% on their recent championships because the media was to obsessed about Lebron possibly winning a ring the next year


Most of that is due to the Celtics losing Garnett and there being no great team to compete with Cleveland, led by James. And if SLAM favored Cleveland over LA than lol at them. Cleveland's best shot would be Kobe making too big a deal of playing LeBron and trying to one up him, occasionally freezing out teammates and letting it get to 6.

[NattyPButter]

Had Byron Scott coached instead of Mike Brown..... How different would of things went?

Brown just has no clue on offense. He sat Shaq when he was healthy and waited till the playoffs. Sat Hickson during the playoffs when he had been playing during the season, starting at the 5.

Scott sucks as a coach and I rather have Brown right now instead of Scott. Scott would of of done worst with rotations and most likely put Hickson in the dog house since he never did like him. Would bring Lebron in the 4th qt with 5 mins left like he does Kyrie.

[TheMan]

I really believe the Cavs would've eventually won their chip if LBJ stayed. LeBron is playing at a level right now that he didn't play at in Cleveland. He was really good with the Cavs but he's on a GOAT level right now and it coincides that's he's at his peak/prime and has reached a maturity level he never reached before. We allwere wondering when he was gonna "get it", well he's "got it" now, he didn't demolish the Celtics in game 6 last year on pure dumb luck.

I like LeBron though I'm not a stan and those of you who deride him are hating...this version of LeBron on the Cavs teams win the chip this year.

[Ne 1]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/v8elpi.jpg

Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. The would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode

[Whoah10115]

this version of LeBron on the Cavs teams win the chip this year.


This I don't know about. Just consider that LeBron on Cleveland (assuming Bosh is still in Miami) means that Wade is playing his game and he can at least stand up to LeBron and battle him. The Heat would have a better team from 2 down, tho they would still lack a center. That's a tough matchup. Not to mention whoever they would face in the Finals. Even the Thunder would give them a tough matchup.

[TheMan]

This I don't know about. Just consider that LeBron on Cleveland (assuming Bosh is still in Miami) means that Wade is playing his game and he can at least stand up to LeBron and battle him. The Heat would have a better team from 2 down, tho they would still lack a center. That's a tough matchup. Not to mention whoever they would face in the Finals. Even the Thunder would give them a tough matchup.
Wade isn't dumb, he saw the writing on the wall so he pursued and convinced LBJ to join him in Miami. He knew when LBJ reached his peak, he wasn't going to beat him so he gave up his alpha dog status on his team to have LeBron on his side. Current LeBron destroys current Wade if they are on opposing teams. LBJ is looking to add his name to at least top 5 GOAT while Wade is lucky to crack top 25...

This is Bron's time now.

[Kingwillball]

http://oi43.tinypic.com/v8elpi.jpg

Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. The would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode


Well against Magic he had a Great series I Believe HE averages 35,8,8 so hard to blame him.. Celtics series he had that one dud at home which probably cost team series but came back with a 40 point Performance in Boston so he didn't quit or lay down like in 2011 finals.

[TheMan]

Well against Magic he had a Great series I Believe HE averages 35,8,8 so hard to blame him.. Celtics series he had that one dud at home which probably cost team series but came back with a 40 point Performance in Boston so he didn't quit or lay down like in 2011 finals.

That was surprising to say the least. He looked timid in those Finals especially in the 4th quarters. He destroyed my Bulls while Wade was looking horrible most of that year's ECF series. I don't think we'll ever see LeBron look that bad again, like he looked in those 11 Finals.

[Ne 1]

Well against Magic he had a Great series I Believe HE averages 35,8,8 so hard to blame him.. Celtics series he had that one dud at home which probably cost team series but came back with a 40 point Performance in Boston so he didn't quit or lay down like in 2011 finals.
I do actually think there were some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the '09 series vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando although I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it and that he dosen't deserve any criticism at all for losing and that it isn't a blemish at all on his resume, especially considering his team was heavily favored to to win and had home court advantage.

[Blue&Orange]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/347412/seriespicks.JPG

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/ReggieChoke.jpg
:oldlol:

[Whoah10115]

Wade isn't dumb, he saw the writing on the wall so he pursued and convinced LBJ to join him in Miami. He knew when LBJ reached his peak, he wasn't going to beat him so he gave up his alpha dog status on his team to have LeBron on his side. Current LeBron destroys current Wade if they are on opposing teams. LBJ is looking to add his name to at least top 5 GOAT while Wade is lucky to crack top 25...

This is Bron's time now.



I disagree with all this. Wade joined with LeBron for the same reason LeBron joined with Wade. It was nothing to do with writing on the wall. If it was then it wouldn't have taken almost two years (i.e. Wade being injured throughout last season) for Wade to take a step back.


Wade would step up to LeBron and that would be a matchup. And, like I said, the Heat would likely be clearly better than Cleveland, from #2 on.

[DMV2]

The 2009 and 2010 LeBron-lead Cavs had enough talent to make it to the Finals. But winning it all, and against the Lakers(a powerhouse at the time), I don't think so. They lack the mental toughness that a true title contending team has.

In 2009 series vs Magic, nobody helped out LeBron. The 2010 Boston series, once LeBron quit everybody else followed.

LeBron definitely needed Wade and Riley to get him over that mental blockage. Sure, LeBron has taken over the #1 option slot for Miami but I'm pretty sure behind the scenes, Wade is the emotional/mental #1 option leader on that team.

[TheMan]

I disagree with all this. Wade joined with LeBron for the same reason LeBron joined with Wade. It was nothing to do with writing on the wall. If it was then it wouldn't have taken almost two years (i.e. Wade being injured throughout last season) for Wade to take a step back.


Wade would step up to LeBron and that would be a matchup. And, like I said, the Heat would likely be clearly better than Cleveland, from #2 on.
Agree to disagree:cheers:

[D.J.]

They just weren't deep enough as a team. They played great team defense, but you're not going to win a title when your best players after LeBron are Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, Anderson Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Boobie Gibson, Damon Jones, and Anthony Parker.

[Ne 1]

Now people use the "not enough help" excuse but LeBron fan boys and Cavs fans and most fans in general were singing a very different tune before being upset by the Celtics.


Shaq+Lebron on the same team=championship. A dominant post player is the missing piece in the puzzle for Cavs.


Cavs were a top 4 team this year with a horrible Frontcourt and if U add the Greatest Center of all time who is past his prime but still a top 5 Center in the league who can gaurd Howard,Bynam Ect.. to a year better Lebron and probably another addition via MLE Cavs would be in great Shape as long as everyone is healthy.


Shaq Would Muscle Howard righht out of the blocks ie: Perkins except with Longer reach to effect his hooks. He would also teach that young cat Bynam how its done. Were u watching Shaq this year he played his best ball in the past 3 years and would be a Legit 16 and 10 a night for the Cavs but also provide leadership. Anyway U slice it He is a huge upgrade from Z or Wallace on Both Ends as Cavs get a post scorer Rebounder and Also a BIg Who can Gaurd any real Post man in the NBA. What also happens is Z would than become a bench Center(where he belongs) basically splitting minutes with Shaq and it would keep both fresher for Playoff run. Best part of the Whole thing is Cavs would still be able to sign a big name FA in 2010 so it helps them now and in future.




So is this a sure thing now? Jamison is officially on the Cavs?

If so, damn that's a good team. Lakers vs. Cavs is going to be so exciting.



Oh shit Cleveland is the clear favorite now, will the Wizards buy out Z so he can return to the Cavs?



The tools are there now Lebron....

Shaq
Jamison
Lebron
Parker
Williams

Bench:
Hickson
West
Gibson
Telfair
Varejao
Z
Powe (coming back from injury)

WOW...deepest team in the league? Cavs-Lakers will be epic.


if Z gets bought out, then its over, this team will be completely stacked, the second unit alone is fkn scary, telfair jawad williams jamario moon hickson and Z, very young team cept for Z. im just worried now that the cavs are too stacked, if anyone understands that.


Wow! Cavs are a much better team now with Jamison and they didn't have to give up Hickson. I was hoping the Cavs get Amare so he can screw them over. With Jamison, he can fit into any team perfectly so he won't have any trouble fitting in the Cavs in the mid-season. And just as I thought Ferry was a retarded GM, he's looking like the executive of the year already.


The Cavs made off like bandits

Congrats to Lebron on MVP (and scoring title?) # 2, and championship (and finals MVP) #1


Cavs officially the team to beat in the East and Maybe the NBA. They are sooo deep wonder who will be losing out on minutes ?


Lebron just got EXACTLY what he needed to win it all. Better fit than Amare.
...and Big Z will be back in a month.
crazy.

they have to be the favorites now.


This deal was great for the Cavs, they keep all their players and get Jamison for a 30th pick and they also get Telfair. It doesnt matter about all the other stuff you guys are talking about with defense and him being nothing more than shooter. Jamison adds another legit 20 ppg scorer with the ability to shoot and score in multiple ways and you get him FOR NOTHING is great.He isnt a big personality and doesnt have character issues.Forget his defense his offense is what gets him paid. Defense isnt a problem with AV and Powe backing him up.


Laker fans r testy.. Cavs beat them twice already pre-Jamison..once they get Z back will be same team + Jamison...I think the Lakers r too soft for the Cavs...it is Cleveland's yr..


With Jamison on board, the Cavs have the best roster in the East, and they should win the championship.

[ripthekik]

Now people use the "not enough help" excuse but LeBron fan boys and Cavs fans and most fans in general were singing a very different tune before being upset by the Celtics.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :bowdown:
bet some of those were from Lebron23 :oldlol:

[JellyBean]

The Celtics were a much better team. That is why the Cavs couldn't beat them.

And there it is. Plan and simple. Sometimes you run into a team that is just better in every phase of the game.