Tim Duncan: GREATEST Player since Jordan -- FACT***

[onhcetum]

Oh nothing to see here, just another 34 pts, 11 rebounds outing on 13/19 shooting. Averaging 25 ppg, 13 boards, and 3 blocks over his last 7 games...

Old man Duncan couldn't do it anymore they said... Duncan is absolutely the greatest player since Jordan. The Spurs won like 20 games the season before Duncan got there. He saved that franchise. The single greatest winner in modern history... the Spurs have made the playoffs every single year and have won 50+ games every year since he's been there (save for the 1999 locked out season). Another year, another group of players, it doesn't matter. This year, he is leading a team full of journeymen who went overseas, undrafted players, and guys they found deep in the draft.

People don't realize that Ginobili and Parker weren't the same players back then that they are today. Both became great later on, but they were not the players they were during the title years. Duncan has put his team on his back for 4 titles. He was both the primary scorer and their best defensive player and anchored that team.

The Spurs eliminated the Lakers twice during the Kobe/Shaq era... that's two top 10 players at the height of their careers and Duncan knocked them off twice with arguably the least amount of the help any title winning superstar has had the past 15+ years.

4 titles, 3 finals MVP, 2 MVP's, numerous all-star appearances and selections to All-NBA and All-Defensive teams... not to mention among the all-time leaders in points, rebounds, and blocks... (correct me if I'm wrong but top 5 in rebounds in the playoffs and #1 in blocks).

It's funny how when people talk about the best guards in the game, you hear always hear the names "Rose, Kyrie, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Westbrook". But whenever Duncan's name comes up, you guys are just so quick to say "Oh, but he had Parker and Ginobili". In any case, it's not even a close comparison to say... Lebron-Wade, Kobe-Shaq, or Durant-Westbrook.

The All-Star/All-NBA/MVP candidate caliber versions of Manu and Parker you see today were not the same players back then. The 19+ ppg scoring machine and having his way in the paint and the automatic shot jump are 2008 or later (maybe it started the 2007 year). The same can be said with Manu.

He is without question the greatest player since Jordan. He was the team's go-to scorer and averaged 25 ppg at his peak (so it's not like he was another Ben Wallace or anything), but at the same time exhibiting top 10 GOAT in defense... it's clear as day.

[chazzy]

The All-Star/All-NBA/MVP candidate caliber versions of Manu and Parker you see today were not the same players back then. The 19+ ppg scoring machine and having his way in the paint and the automatic shot jump are 2008 or later (maybe it started the 2007 year). The same can be said with Manu.
Regarding the 03 title agreed, but Manu in 05 and Parker in 07 were great help in the playoffs

[nosfan773]

This argument is coming up more and more. I think so, but I'm a biased Spurs fan.

Since Jordan I got ...

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Dirk
6. Garnett

[TheBigVeto]

Yes it is correct. Anybody who thinks Kobe is better than Duncan is a *******.

[b1imtf]

Yes it is correct. Anybody who thinks Kobe is better than Duncan is a *******.
What players do you like?

[onhcetum]

Yes it is correct. Anybody who thinks Kobe is better than Duncan is a *******.

If by better, they mean more commercials, shoe deals, and highlight dunks, then yes.

[Sarcastic]

Shaq
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan

[kennethgriffin]

kobe bryant

- sporting news player of the decade

- sports illustrated player of the decade

- dime magazine player of the decade

- tnt player of the decade

















all meaningless now that we have this valued OP's opinion on insidehoops.com/forum nba general section

:bowdown:

[nosfan773]

Shaq
LeBron
Kobe
Duncan


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Myth]

kobe bryant

- sports illustrated player of the decade



Interesting, this says that Duncan was SI's player of the decade: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/03/nba.highlights.lowlights/index.html

[Myth]

[B]kobe bryant
- tnt player of the decade


And this was voted by fans, so big surprise.

[Myth]

Sporting News apparently was also fan voted :facepalm

So, essentially those are all worthless awards.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Player? No. That's Lebron (followed by Duncan).

As far as accomplishment/careers go, Timmy is numero uno though.

[Shep]

people who rank bryant over duncan today or all-time are simply put uneducated losers.

there are only 3 players in nba history who have had a better career than duncan: michael jordan, kareem abdul-jabbar, and wilt chamberlain.

[ScarSymmetry]

This argument is coming up more and more. I think so, but I'm a biased Spurs fan.

Since Jordan I got ...

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Dirk
6. Garnett

That's a pretty accurate list in my opinion.

[Big#50]

kobe bryant

- sporting news player of the decade

- sports illustrated player of the decade

- dime magazine player of the decade

- tnt player of the decade

















all meaningless now that we have this valued OP's opinion on insidehoops.com/forum nba general section

:bowdown:
Im pretty sure SI has Timmy as the best player of the decade.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Player? No. That's Lebron (followed by Duncan).

As far as accomplishment/careers go, Timmy is numero uno though.
This.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lol Myth just destroyed kennethgriffin :lol

future repped

[Big#50]

I have Tim as the second greatest player of all time.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Hakeem
Kobe/LeBron

[Kingwillball]

I Already think its Lebron ask the Question in a few years it will most undoubtedly be Lebron.

[pauk]

Since Michael Jordan's retirement (98) the greatest players ive seen are:

1. LeBron James (2008-2013)
2. Shaquille Oneal (1998-2005)
3. Kobe Bryant (2005-2008)
4. Tracy McGrady (2002-2004)
5. Tim Duncan (1999-2005)
6. Kevin Garnett (1998-2005)
7. Kevin Durant (2010-2013)
8. Dwyane Wade (2006-2008)
9. Allen Iverson (1999-2005)
10. Dirk Nowitzki (2005-2010)

[Kingwillball]

I have Tim as the second greatest player of all time.
MJ
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Russell
Hakeem
Kobe/LeBron


GTFO... :facepalm

[Myth]

Since Michael Jordan's retirement (98) the greatest players ive seen are:

1. LeBron James (2008-2013)
2. Shaquille Oneal (1998-2005)
3. Kobe Bryant (2005-2008)
4. Tracy McGrady (2002-2004)
5. Tim Duncan (1999-2005)
6. Kevin Garnett (1998-2005)
7. Kevin Durant (2010-2013)
8. Dwyane Wade (2006-2008)
9. Allen Iverson (1999-2005)
10. Dirk Nowitzki (2005-2010)

You probably get this a lot, but you are an amazing poster with a high IQ. Nothing wrong with your brain at all.

[Kingwillball]

Since Michael Jordan's retirement (98) the greatest players ive seen are:

1. LeBron James (2008-2013)
2. Shaquille Oneal (1998-2005)
3. Kobe Bryant (2005-2008)
4. Tracy McGrady (2002-2004)
5. Tim Duncan (1999-2005)
6. Kevin Garnett (1998-2005)
7. Kevin Durant (2010-2013)
8. Dwyane Wade (2006-2008)
9. Allen Iverson (1999-2005)
10. Dirk Nowitzki (2005-2010)

I would Rated Duncan ahead of McGRady cause of his Accomplishments and Longevity. In Fact not sure I would have McGrady as top 10 I would put Grant Hill up there ahead of him he had a Great Stretch.

[Big#50]

GTFO... :facepalm
Can you post your top ten??

[pauk]

You probably get this a lot, but you are an amazing poster with a high IQ. Nothing wrong with your brain at all.

The list is based more closer to individual talent / play... 2002-2004 Tracy McGrady was kindof like a Lebron/Kobe mix clone and i watched very carefully, he was absolutely astonishing (many people forget), he striked me at that time as better than Duncan.... it still was close i think, so i wouldnt mind placing Duncan over him on my list.... its tough...

[Big#50]

The list is based more closer to individual talent / play... 2002-2004 Tracy McGrady was kindof like a Lebron/Kobe mix clone and i watched very carefully, he striked me at that time as better than Duncan.... it still was close i think, so i wouldnt mind placing Duncan over him on my list.... its tough...
Duncan won a ring and two MVPs in those seasons. Won an average of 59 games I think in those seasons. His teams were pretty average in depth.

[Myth]

The list is based more closer to individual talent / play... 2002-2004 Tracy McGrady was kindof like a Lebron/Kobe mix clone and i watched very carefully, he was absolutely astonishing (many people forget), he striked me at that time as better than Duncan.... it still was close i think, so i wouldnt mind placing Duncan over him on my list.... its tough...

Even individually, Duncan was way superior to McGrady. You can't just remember offense and highlights. McGrady was not on Kobe or LeBron's level of defense (and not on LeBron's level of ball distribution). Duncan's defense was dominant while being ultra efficient on offense. To me, it is not even close even excluding team play. Adding team play means it is not even close.

[onhcetum]

Since Michael Jordan's retirement (98) the greatest players ive seen are:

1. LeBron James (2008-2013)
2. Shaquille Oneal (1998-2005)
3. Kobe Bryant (2005-2008)
4. Tracy McGrady (2002-2004)
5. Tim Duncan (1999-2005)
6. Kevin Garnett (1998-2005)
7. Kevin Durant (2010-2013)
8. Dwyane Wade (2006-2008)
9. Allen Iverson (1999-2005)
10. Dirk Nowitzki (2005-2010)

Once again, this is all based on offense. None of these guys with the exception of maybe Garnett is even comparable in terms of the defensive impact he has on the game. Last time I checked, defense was 50% of the game. What did putting up all of those points do for Kobe and McGrady during that stretch?

[pauk]

But based on accolades its kindof different, i would give that one to Shaquille O'Neal.

[Myth]

But based on accolades its kindof different, i would give that one to Shaquille O'Neal.

Duncan easily has Shaq beat on accolades. Shaq has Duncan beat on peak.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Since Michael Jordan's retirement (98) the greatest players ive seen are:

1. LeBron James (2008-2013)
2. Shaquille Oneal (1998-2005)
3. Kobe Bryant (2005-2008)
4. Tracy McGrady (2002-2004)
5. Tim Duncan (1999-2005)
6. Kevin Garnett (1998-2005)
7. Kevin Durant (2010-2013)
8. Dwyane Wade (2006-2008)
9. Allen Iverson (1999-2005)
10. Dirk Nowitzki (2005-2010)
Lebron and Shaq are debatable (and i would probably agree with). Putting TMac over Duncan and KG is a disgrace.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Ahem...

http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kobe_bryant_shaquille_oneal_all_time_scoring.jpg

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Timmy

[knicksman]

I still think shaq is better. Its just that hes unfortunate to play with kobe

[onhcetum]

Ahem...

http://ohverlycritical.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/kobe_bryant_shaquille_oneal_all_time_scoring.jpg

1. Shaq
2. Kobe
3. Timmy

lol @ playing on the same team, and getting beat by Duncan TWICE

[bdreason]

I would probably agree. My rankings would look something like;


1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. LeBron
5. KG
6. Dirk
7. Wade


I'm probably forgetting someone, it's late.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This.

Yeah...for me it goes:

Individual players
1. LeBron James (this year, he's been unworldly; best player since peak MJ)
2A. Duncan (better all-around player than Shaq, especially on defense; guy had just as much as impact too)
2B. Shaq (better peak, more dominant)
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. Durant (a few more seasons of his efficient scoring and imo he COULD be top 5).
8A. Mcgrady
8B. Iverson

Putting it ALL together
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Wade
7. Dirk
8. Iverson
9A. Durant
9B. Mcgrady

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah...for me it goes:

Individual players
1. LeBron James (this year, he's been unworldly; best player since peak MJ)
2A. Duncan (better all-around player than Shaq, especially on defense; guy had just as much as impact too)
2B. Shaq (better peak, more dominant)
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. Durant (a few more seasons of his efficient scoring and imo he COULD be top 5).
8A. Mcgrady
8B. Iverson

Putting it ALL together
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Wade
7. Dirk
8. Iverson
9A. Durant
9B. Mcgrady
agree almost 100% with both lists. Duncan vs Shaq for me is tough to decide though in the "putting it all together" list.

future repped

[TheFastOne]

Yeah...for me it goes:

Individual players
1. LeBron James (this year, he's been unworldly; best player since peak MJ)
2A. Duncan (better all-around player than Shaq, especially on defense; guy had just as much as impact too)
2B. Shaq (better peak, more dominant)
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. Durant (a few more seasons of his efficient scoring and imo he COULD be top 5).
8A. Mcgrady
8B. Iverson

Putting it ALL together
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Wade
7. Dirk
8. Iverson
9A. Durant
9B. Mcgrady

You've got yourself a clear case.

[ThaRegul8r]

Lebron and Shaq are debatable (and i would probably agree with). Putting TMac over Duncan and KG is a disgrace.

Since he's talking only about players he's seen and not claiming it to be thee official list (which as I've said repeatedly in the past more people should do), it's possible he's seen more of McGrady than Duncan (everyone does not see every player an equal amount of times), and thus earns the higher ranking.

[Mr. Jabbar]

kobe bryant

- sporting news player of the decade

- sports illustrated player of the decade

- dime magazine player of the decade

- tnt player of the decade



all meaningless now that we have this valued OP's opinion on insidehoops.com/forum nba general section

:bowdown:

Exactly, why should we hear to knowledgeable people when we have OP? :confusedshrug:

[BoutPractice]

Taking everything into account, yes, that's pretty reasonable. I think he has a stronger argument over Shaq than say Magic versus Bird or Russell versus Wilt.

The only spot in his career is not getting to - at least - five championships, which he definitely had the potential and opportunity to do. Part of it was bad luck (starting with the whole Derek Fisher thing), but the Spurs also choked a few times. Five championships would have definitely made his case against O'Neal and Kobe. Still, the idea that winning only four championships could be seen as a weakness goes to show how great a player we're talking about.

[pauk]

Duncan easily has Shaq beat on accolades. Shaq has Duncan beat on peak.

Maybe yea, but when you consider it all, the talent of Shaq aswell, the fear he striked upon teams.... 1999-2003... that was some domination of epic proportions, Duncan never dominated like that... you could go with Duncan aswell, its debatable, but please let me go with Shaq.... please... you can have Duncan... :)

[Deuce Bigalow]

lol @ playing on the same team, and getting beat by Duncan TWICE
1999- Kobe was 20 years old. He was not a superstar yet, and when he did become one we all know what happened next. 1999 was also the lockout season where if you look at the league numbers and compared it to past and future years, it was the worst year ever. Phil Jackson says it deserved an asterisk, but that is a different topic.

2003- Lakers were the defending backtobacktoback champions coming in. No team has ever won more than 3 in a row since 1966. Magic and Kareem couldn't win 3 in a row, let alone 4.

[qrich]

Yeah...for me it goes:

Individual players
1. LeBron James (this year, he's been unworldly; best player since peak MJ)
2A. Duncan (better all-around player than Shaq, especially on defense; guy had just as much as impact too)
2B. Shaq (better peak, more dominant)
3. Kobe
4. KG
5. Wade
6. Dirk
7. Durant (a few more seasons of his efficient scoring and imo he COULD be top 5).
8A. Mcgrady
8B. Iverson

Putting it ALL together
1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG
6. Wade
7. Dirk
8. Iverson
9A. Durant
9B. Mcgrady

Besides Myth destroying the idiot, this is the best post in this thread.

Think LeBron will leapfrog Kobe easily when its done, maybe Shaq as well.

[onhcetum]

1999- Kobe was 20 years old. He was not a superstar yet, and when he did become one we all know what happened next. 1999 was also the lockout season where if you look at the league numbers and compared it to past and future years, it was the worst year ever. Phil Jackson says it deserved an asterisk, but that is a different topic.

2003- Lakers were the defending backtobacktoback champions coming in. No team has ever won more than 3 in a row since 1966. Magic and Kareem couldn't win 3 in a row, let alone 4.

lol at the age argument, same ppl shoving it down our throats that kobe is the youngest to do this, this, and that, 1st player ever in history to be doing THIs in 16th or 15th season, having an ageless career, longevity... right. so which is it though?

and u lose credibility when u throw out the astriek season remark. if it was so easy and everyone was bad, why didnt LAL win it? still gotta play out the games

[Balla_Status]

Some spurs fan said that the only reason the Mavs/Dirk won the championship due to Duncan and Kobe aging and not being the same and their dominance being over. They seem to be playing pretty ****ing well this season so which is it?

[Breezy]

Look it's nice that all of you could stay relatively close to the topic at hand for so long but we all know where this thread is headed so let's cut to the ****ing chase.

Kobe or Lebron.....GO!!!

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lol, these haters think they can rewrite history making up stoopid rankings :roll: :roll:

Past bed time kids, you can continue ranking players tomorrow

[Harison]

Is this a parallel universe where Shaq havent played? :rolleyes:

[Graviton]

Is this a parallel universe where Shaq havent played? :rolleyes:
When you take into account defense, longevity, accomplishments, Shaq doesn't have a case. Short peak and dominance doesn't trump Duncan's success with less talent over longer period of time.

[willds09]

Wow just wow :wtf: :coleman::kobe:

[SwayDizzle]

maybe if Kobe didn't exist..

[Nero Tulip]

Obviously it's between him and Shaq, and no, no one else has a case. But Shaq reached a level when he was so much better than anyone else for a couple years, I might still give him the edge.

[ripthekik]

When you take into account defense, longevity, accomplishments, Shaq doesn't have a case. Short peak and dominance doesn't trump Duncan's success with less talent over longer period of time.
Lebron is out of the picture then. :(

[ILLsmak]

Still don't see how people think TD is better than Shaq. It's mind blowing.

-Smak

[Greg Oden 50]

Still don't see how people think TD is better than Shaq. It's mind blowing.

-Smak

dominantion :banana:

[Deuce Bigalow]

When you take into account defense, longevity, accomplishments, Shaq doesn't have a case. Short peak and dominance doesn't trump Duncan's success with less talent over longer period of time.
Shaq's rookie season in 92-93: 23.4 / 13.9 / 1.9 / 3.5

Duncan's career high in ppg, rpg, and bpg is 25.5, 12.9, 2.7. Shaq in his rookie year averages more rebounds and blocks than Duncan ever did.

Here's Shaq's second season in 93-94: 29.3 / 13.2 / 2.4 / 2.9

Much higher ppg than Duncan ever had, higher rebounding, and more blocks in just his second season. That was in 93-94.

After putting up similar numbers from that point on here is 2002-03, 11th season: 27.5 / 11.1 / 3.1 / 2.1

Shaq did not begin his career in 2000. Why do people think he doesn't have longevity? He's been an elite player since his rookie year in 92-93. Duncan has never come close to putting up the same numbers that second year Shaq did. Shaq continued to be an elite player up until 2004-05, which is 13 years since his rookie year. You can make a case that he was elite in 2005-06 too since he won a ring that year and led the NBA in FG% yet again. That would make 14 great seasons in a row.

As for the Playoffs, we all know his numbers during the 3peat. Duncan isn't even close to Shaq. If you want to go by longevity, Shaq is better. 22.9 / 10.4 / 2.7 / 2.3 as a 32 year old in 2004-05. That would be considered a career year for Duncan. Duncan has averaged over 20 ppg for 9 seasons, Shaq has averaged over 26 ppg 11 seasons and over 20 ppg for 14 seasons. Duncan has averaged over 10 rpg in 14 seasons, Shaq the same. Duncan does not have any edge in longevity and as far as peak and prime, no one is going to say Duncan was better than Shaq as it's quite obvious.

And as far as accomplishments, what does Duncan have that Shaq doesn't? Nothing.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq's rookie season in 92-93: 23.4 / 13.9 / 1.9 / 3.5

Duncan's career high in ppg, rpg, and bpg is 25.5, 12.9, 2.7. Shaq in his rookie year averages more rebounds and blocks than Duncan ever did.

Here's Shaq's second season in 93-94: 29.3 / 13.2 / 2.4 / 2.9

Much higher ppg than Duncan ever had, higher rebounding, and more blocks in just his second season. That was in 93-94.

After putting up similar numbers from that point on here is 2002-03, 11th season: 27.5 / 11.1 / 3.1 / 2.1

Shaq did not begin his career in 2000. Why do people think he doesn't have longevity? He's been an elite player since his rookie year in 92-93. Duncan has never come close to putting up the same numbers that second year Shaq did. Shaq continued to be an elite player up until 2004-05, which is 13 years since his rookie year. You can make a case that he was elite in 2005-06 too since he won a ring that year and led the NBA in FG% yet again. That would make 14 great seasons in a row.

As for the Playoffs, we all know his numbers during the 3peat. Duncan isn't even close to Shaq. If you want to go by longevity, Shaq is better. 22.9 / 10.4 / 2.7 / 2.3 as a 32 year old in 2004-05. That would be considered a career year for Duncan. Duncan has averaged over 20 ppg for 9 seasons, Shaq has averaged over 26 ppg 11 seasons and over 20 ppg for 14 seasons. Duncan has averaged over 10 rpg in 14 seasons, Shaq the same. Duncan does not have any edge in longevity and as far as peak and prime, no one is going to say Duncan was better than Shaq as it's quite obvious.

And as far as accomplishments, what does Duncan have that Shaq doesn't? Nothing.

Remember, though, the thread title reads SINCE Jordan. The start of the '99 season basically.

[DMAVS41]

Shaq vs Duncan is certainly a legit debate....

I think Duncan was better personally...and I can only imagine what Duncan would have been able to accomplish playing with the kind of talent Shaq did.

[Magic 32]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdhA41wgms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRKZhfOfA-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc

4>1 in the postseason (2000-2010).

4>3 in titles.

Same number of finals MVPs.

And nobody owns Duncan more when it matters than Kobe.

[Big#50]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdhA41wgms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRKZhfOfA-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc

4>1 in the postseason (2000-2010).

4>3 in titles.

Same number of finals MVPs.

And nobody owns Duncan more when it matters than Kobe.
Duncan is more impressive than i thought. He is not a center/pf but a shooting guard. Good to know.

[Big#50]

Shaq's rookie season in 92-93: 23.4 / 13.9 / 1.9 / 3.5

Duncan's career high in ppg, rpg, and bpg is 25.5, 12.9, 2.7. Shaq in his rookie year averages more rebounds and blocks than Duncan ever did.

Here's Shaq's second season in 93-94: 29.3 / 13.2 / 2.4 / 2.9

Much higher ppg than Duncan ever had, higher rebounding, and more blocks in just his second season. That was in 93-94.

After putting up similar numbers from that point on here is 2002-03, 11th season: 27.5 / 11.1 / 3.1 / 2.1

Shaq did not begin his career in 2000. Why do people think he doesn't have longevity? He's been an elite player since his rookie year in 92-93. Duncan has never come close to putting up the same numbers that second year Shaq did. Shaq continued to be an elite player up until 2004-05, which is 13 years since his rookie year. You can make a case that he was elite in 2005-06 too since he won a ring that year and led the NBA in FG% yet again. That would make 14 great seasons in a row.

As for the Playoffs, we all know his numbers during the 3peat. Duncan isn't even close to Shaq. If you want to go by longevity, Shaq is better. 22.9 / 10.4 / 2.7 / 2.3 as a 32 year old in 2004-05. That would be considered a career year for Duncan. Duncan has averaged over 20 ppg for 9 seasons, Shaq has averaged over 26 ppg 11 seasons and over 20 ppg for 14 seasons. Duncan has averaged over 10 rpg in 14 seasons, Shaq the same. Duncan does not have any edge in longevity and as far as peak and prime, no one is going to say Duncan was better than Shaq as it's quite obvious.

And as far as accomplishments, what does Duncan have that Shaq doesn't? Nothing.
Everyone with a brain knows Duncan is the better rebounder and defender. **** out of here with your stats.

[Horatio33]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCdhA41wgms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRKZhfOfA-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv_wKwanldc

4>1 in the postseason (2000-2010).

4>3 in titles.

Same number of finals MVPs.

And nobody owns Duncan more when it matters than Kobe.

So it didn't matter in 1999 and 2003? Also where was Kobe in 2005 and 2007? And Duncan has 2 MVPs.

[Magic 32]

So it didn't matter in 1999 and 2003? Also where was Kobe in 2005 and 2007? And Duncan has 2 MVPs.

1999 = Kobe 19 year old bench player.

2003 = I included that.

"And Duncan has 2 MVPs" = Well I guess Steve Nash is better than Kobe as well.

[kennethgriffin]

1999 = Kobe 19 year old bench player.

2003 = I included that.

"And Duncan has 2 MVPs" = Well I guess Steve Nash is better than Kobe as well.


1999 - kobe 19 year old starter*

1999 - kobe 19 year old averaging 20ppg ( which is duncans career average LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOOL)

and mvps are worthless when nash has more than kobe, shaq, hakeem

[MavsPoke]

This argument is coming up more and more. I think so, but I'm a biased Spurs fan.

Since Jordan I got ...

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. Lebron
5. Dirk
6. Garnett

I'll go with this list.

[La Frescobaldi]

Since he's talking only about players he's seen and not claiming it to be thee official list (which as I've said repeatedly in the past more people should do), it's possible he's seen more of McGrady than Duncan (everyone does not see every player an equal amount of times), and thus earns the higher ranking.
This post should be the Insidehoops Motto

[Odinn]

1999 = Kobe 19 year old bench player.

2003 = I included that.

"And Duncan has 2 MVPs" = Well I guess Steve Nash is better than Kobe as well.


In seasons which they finised at top 5 in the mvp race;

Duncan; 2x MVP winner. 9x top 5.
2x 1st place (1.565 share)
2x 2nd place (1.151 share)
1x 3rd place (0.627 share)
2x 4th place (0.480 share)
2x 5th place (0.333 share)
166 1st place votes (1103 possible)
Aside from mvp seasons 49 1st place votes
Total: 4.156 share - Career total: 4.205 share

Shaq; 1x MVP winner. 8x top 5.
1x 1st place (0.998 share)
2x 2nd place (1.392 share)
2x 3rd place (1.018 share)
2x 4th place (0.554 share)
1x 5th place (0.106 share)
219 1st place votes (939 possible)
Aside from mvp season 99 1st place votes
Total: 4.068 share - Career total: 4.380 share

Kobe; 1x MVP winner. 10 times in top 5
1x 1st place (0.877 share)
1x 2nd place (0.577 share)
3x 3rd place (1.308 share)
3x 4th place (1.031 share)
2x 5th place (0.250 share)
118 1st place votes (1234 possible)
Aside from mvp season 38 1st place votes
Total: 4.043 share - Career total: 4.054 share

Duncan has one more MVP. Shaq has much more 1st place votes and career MVP share. Kobe has one more top 5 finish compared to Duncan and 2 more to Shaq.

:cheers: :cheers: :applause: :bowdown:

The bolded part is just a cheap argument in a debate like this. Yes, Duncan's MVP resume - results are better than Kobe's one.

[Magic 32]

The bolded part is just a cheap argument in a debate like this. Yes, Duncan's MVP resume - results are better than Kobe's one.

He has been part of the most consistent basketball organization since the 1980's Lakers. Kobe had nobody in his absolute prime years (2005-2007).

And Kobe spanked him in 2002 (Shaq had one of his worst playoffs series), so it's not a cheap shot to discount the 2002 MVP (just like I would do with Lebron in 09 and 10).

[PrettyCool]

1.a. Duncan
1.b. Shaq
3. Kobe
4. who cares

[JellyBean]

If you mean the greatest hyped player since Jordan, I agree. Duncan is up there. But the greatest player(s) since Jordan is Shaq followed closely by Kobe. In fact I would give Kobe the edge because of his work ethic and because he was the 13th pick in the draft compared to the #1 pick of Tim Duncan. #13 picks don't normally pan out and last this long. Some don't even get better. Kobe got better. No he got good and is only 4 points away from tying Wilt and become the 4th all-time points leader.

[dh144498]

still waiting for these "facts", all you've typed were jibberish opinions. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

If we're talking post Jordan era 99-13, then Kobe's longevity matters. He's been better than Shaq and Duncan from 06-13

[vinsane01]

He gets my vote. It's between him and kobe IMO in terms of career performance.

[rmt]

He has been part of the most consistent basketball organization since the 1980's Lakers. Kobe had nobody in his absolute prime years (2005-2007).

Please get your facts straight. Lakers have not been the most consistent basketball organization since the 80's Lakers. If you meant since 1990, Lakers are 62.55% - Spurs are 67.40%. If you meant since 1996 when Magic retired - Lakers are 65.07% and Spurs are 67.74%. Not even sure why you would use these dates for this discussion. Since Kobe joined Lakers, Lakers are 64.27%. Since Duncan joined Spurs, Spurs are 70.64% (which iirc is the highest winning percentage in NBA history).

Whose fault is it that Kobe "had nobody in his absolute prime years?" Nobody but himself. His ego overrides his sense. He drives Shaq out of town. Wants to trade Bynum's a**. Expects Howard to defend, rebound and do all the dirty work while he isos at the end of games and racks up the points chasing KAJ. One would think that after 17 years in the league, he'd know that his isos are not a long-term recipe for success. Whatever happened to the Kobe system? Guess Wilt's mark is too close - Kobe is blinded by passing it.


And Kobe spanked him in 2002 (Shaq had one of his worst playoffs series), so it's not a cheap shot to discount the 2002 MVP (just like I would do with Lebron in 09 and 10).

Heaven forbid that the record books show what really happened. Let's just rewrite history. MVPs are for the regular season. Duncan had almost 10 times the amount of votes as Kobe did for the 02 MVP. Lebron had more than twice the votes as Kobe in 09 and more than twice in 10.

[Magic 32]

Please get your facts straight. Lakers have not been the most consistent basketball organization since the 80's Lakers. If you meant since 1990, Lakers are 62.55% - Spurs are 67.40%. If you meant since 1996 when Magic retired - Lakers are 65.07% and Spurs are 67.74%. Not even sure why you would use these dates for this discussion. Since Kobe joined Lakers, Lakers are 64.27%. Since Duncan joined Spurs, Spurs are 70.64% (which iirc is the highest winning percentage in NBA history).



I was talking about the Spurs :facepalm Tim Duncan had the luxury of always being surrounded by champoionhsip level teams.



Whose fault is it that Kobe "had nobody in his absolute prime years?" Nobody but himself. His ego overrides his sense. He drives Shaq out of town. Wants to trade Bynum's a**. Expects Howard to defend, rebound and do all the dirty work while he isos at the end of games and racks up the points chasing KAJ. One would think that after 17 years in the league, he'd know that his isos are not a long-term recipe for success. Whatever happened to the Kobe system? Guess Wilt's mark is too close - Kobe is blinded by passing it.



Heaven forbid that the record books show what really happened. Let's just rewrite history. MVPs are for the regular season. Duncan had almost 10 times the amount of votes as Kobe did for the 02 MVP. Lebron had more than twice the votes as Kobe in 09 and more than twice in 10.

When I discuss the 10 greatest players of all time, I don't care about the regular season. Kobe spanked Timmy when it mattered.

[Odinn]

I was talking about the Spurs :facepalm Tim Duncan had the luxury of always being surrounded by champoionhsip level teams.



When I discuss the 10 greatest players of all time, I don't care about the regular season. Kobe spanked Timmy when it mattered.
As for Lakers-Spurs series;
1999 - Duncan (Spurs won the series because they were the better team.)
2001 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team. Also D. Anderson should be Kobe's main matchup but he was injured. Kobe went up against old perimeter players.)
2002 - Duncan (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2003 - Duncan (What Duncan did was exceptional.)
2004 - Almost a tie, slightly Kobe. (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2008 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)

2008 series the only series can be called spanking Duncan by Kobe. But the same goes with 2003 series. Duncan dominated 2003 Spurs-Lakers series like Kobe dominated in 2008. But Duncan won with the worse team. Kobe never won against Duncan while his team was not the favourites. Duncan did.

[Magic 32]

As for Lakers-Spurs series;
1999 - Duncan (Spurs won the series because they were the better team.)
2001 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team. Also D. Anderson should be Kobe's main matchup but he was injured. Kobe went up against old perimeter players.)
2002 - Duncan (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2003 - Duncan (What Duncan did was exceptional.)
2004 - Almost a tie, slightly Kobe. (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)
2008 - Kobe (Lakers won the series because they were the better team.)

2008 series the only series can be called spanking Duncan by Kobe. But the same goes with 2003 series. Duncan dominated 2003 Spurs-Lakers series like Kobe dominated in 2008. But Duncan won with the worse team. Kobe never won against Duncan while his team was not the favourites. Duncan did.

Spurs were the defending champs in 2004 and 2008. Kobe simply outplayed them. You single out 2003, but Kobe was completely masterful in the clutch in 2002 (and averaged 30 points in the 2 road wins). In 2002, the Lakers were the weaker team. Shaq was awful and the bench was thinner than ever. What Shaq did in the Kings and Nets series is irrelivent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRKZhfOfA-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWPWvJ2wr44

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC8Z9FOZtA0

[ImmortalNemesis]

Yeah.

[ImmortalNemesis]

Also, would love to see him win another ring this year

[Odinn]

Spurs were the defending champs in 2004 and 2008. Kobe simply outplayed them. You single out 2003, but Kobe was completely masterful in the clutch in 2002 (and averaged 30 points in the 2 road wins). In 2002, the Lakers were the weaker team. Shaq was awful and the bench was thinner than ever. What Shaq did in the Kings and Nets series is irrelivent.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

There is no point of arguing with a guy thinking the Spurs were a better team than the Lakers in 2002. You are just delusional.

[Magic 32]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

There is no point of arguing with a guy thinking the Spurs were a better team than the Lakers in 2002. You are just delusional.

Watch the series. Shaq was playing like a role player. What the team became after Shaq got over his injury is another story.

[Odinn]

Watch the series. Shaq was playing like a role player. What the team became after Shaq got over his injury is another story.
I watched. Kobe dominated the series in the clutch. But the Spurs had no firepower aside from Duncan. You point out Shaq's situation repeatedly. You said Lakers bench was thinner than ever. But even Shaq's situation, Duncan's supporting cast was no match for Kobe's supporting cast. Duncan was the better in that series. Put Kobe Duncan's situation and he ain't doing any better than Duncan. Kobe made it in the right times which was generally the 4th q. But the entire game was the right times for Duncan because his supporting cast nowhere near to Kobe's. Duncan scored more than 1/3 of his teams points all by himself and he didn't have a teammate which was capable of dropping 15+ per game, and had 1 10+ ppg teammate.

You said, the Spurs were the defending champs but let's not act like that was not thanks to Duncan's 2003 playoff run, which was one of the best in the history. The Lakers were the better team without a doubt. And Kobe did not dominate that series. Kobe dominated game 4 is true. But not the entire series. That series won thanks to Fisher's miraculous shot.

And I already have given credit to Kobe for 2008 series.

Like I said, you are just delusional. I'm thinking about putting you into my ignore list.

[rmt]

I was talking about the Spurs :facepalm Tim Duncan had the luxury of always being surrounded by champoionhsip level teams.

Has it ever occurred to you that Duncan has allowed players to develop, grow and flourish while playing alongside him while Kobe has hogged the ball, thrown his team mates under the bus and iso-ed the Lakers to losses? That Kobe's ego and lack of trust toward his team mates is detrimental to their growth and development and to the team itself.

"I see nothing but that basket. You could be open, there could be three guys on me, but the only thing I see is that basket so you have to tell me, Look, I was open. Or yell at me mid-play." After 17 years in the league, he still hasn't learned to pass the ball to the open team mate.

[Magic 32]

I watched. Kobe dominated the series in the clutch. But the Spurs had no firepower aside from Duncan. You point out Shaq's situation repeatedly. You said Lakers bench was thinner than ever. But even Shaq's situation, Duncan's supporting cast was no match for Kobe's supporting cast. Duncan was the better in that series. Put Kobe Duncan's situation and he ain't doing any better than Duncan. Kobe made it in the right times which was generally the 4th q. But the entire game was the right times for Duncan because his supporting cast nowhere near to Kobe's. Duncan scored more than 1/3 of his teams points all by himself and he didn't have a teammate which was capable of dropping 15+ per game, and had 1 10+ ppg teammate.

You said, the Spurs were the defending champs but let's not act like that was not thanks to Duncan's 2003 playoff run, which was one of the best in the history. The Lakers were the better team without a doubt. And Kobe did not dominate that series. Kobe dominated game 4 is true. But not the entire series. That series won thanks to Fisher's miraculous shot.

And I already have given credit to Kobe for 2008 series.

Like I said, you are just delusional. I'm thinking about putting you into my ignore list.

Please do. And you keep responding (which tell me you are trying to convince yourself more than anything).

Every time Kobe won, his team was better. Every time Duncan won, it was all Timmy. :facepalm

And Robinson wasn't capble of putting up 15 points per game? If Kobe was in Duncan shoes, he would have been accused of holding Robinson back.

Tony Parker was young, be he sure's hell was better than the Lakers third option (he had 24 points and 5 assists in game 3). Why don't you mention some actual players on the Lakers squad and compare them with Duncan's.

Steve Smith = 16 points in game 1
Antonio Daniels = 14 points in game 2
Tony Parker = 24 points in game 3
Tony Parker = 15 points in game 4
Antonio Daniels = 15 points in game 5
Tony Parker = 14 points in game 5

All the games were close, until Kobe finished them.

[Odinn]

Please do. And you keep responding (which tell me you are trying to convince yourself more than anything).

Every time Kobe won, his team was better. Every time Duncan won, it was all Timmy. :facepalm

And Robinson wasn't capble of putting up 15 points per game? If Kobe was in Duncan shoes, he would have been accused of holding Robinson back.

Tony Parker was young, be he sure's hell was better than the Lakers third option (he had 24 points and 5 assists in game 3). Why don't you mention some actual players on the Lakers squad and compare them with Duncan's.

Steve Smith = 16 points in game 1
Antonio Daniels = 14 points in game 2
Tony Parker = 24 points in game 4
Tony Parker = 15 points in game 4
Antonio Daniels = 15 points in game 5
Tony Parker = 14 points in game 5

All the games were close, until Kobe finished them.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Proven idiot.

[Magic 32]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Proven idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkvpnmAk2xU&t=1m24s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF_LSQ50BWk&t=5m27s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liIYL7YcePI

[MMM]

Shaq/Duncan
Kobe
LeBron
KG
Dirk
Wade
Durant
Pierce
AI

lack of Pierce in this thread is disturbing to say the least

[Big#50]

Kobe shot his team out of a ring. Was outplayed by Pierce and Allen in another finals. Kobe never guarded the other team's best player. Defense is 50% of the game. Quit on his team in another playoff series. I can't believe Lakers fans still worship this guy so much.
I still ****ing hate Manu for that foul on Dirk in 06.

[BlackJoker23]

not even top 5. easily the most overrated ever

kobe
shaq
kg
dirk
lebron

then you have tmac, duncan, carter and the rest

[nosfan773]

not even top 5. easily the most overrated ever

kobe
shaq
kg
dirk
lebron

then you have tmac, duncan, carter and the rest

http://yellowmagpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Laughing-man.jpg

[wakencdukest]

Yes it is correct. Anybody who thinks Kobe is better than Duncan is a *******.



You're the first one to bring up Kobe, Why? The only posts I've ever seen from you are ones that bash the Lakers, and not one of them has been intelligent. You support no team from what I've seen. You just have this crazy agenda to troll every thread you can, what happened to you? Did Kobe rape you or something? Or was it daddy, in front of the tv while watching the Lakers? Do us all a favor and just die off you piece of shit. That said, I think Duncan is the best power forward ever, but to say it's a fact that he's the best since Jordan is wrong. It's all a matter of opinion. It could go any way between Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, And LeBron based on opinion.

[NBASTATMAN]

bump

Duncan Goes Up On My List After This Finals...


Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Duncan
Bird


Hakeem
Kobe
Shaq

[Big#50]

Duncan Goes Up On My List After This Finals...


Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Duncan
Bird


Hakeem
Kobe
Shaq
MAGIC in everyone's top five is a joke. I understand he took the NBA to New levels, but no way he is a top five player.

[NBASTATMAN]

MAGIC in everyone's top five is a joke. I understand he took the NBA to New levels, but no way he is a top five player.


5 titles vs the best Competition ever is by far more impressive than even MJ's 6 titles.. Much more impressive than KObe's 5 titles in an era where there are few great bigs.. Kobe has won with his share of some great bigs. Better than Duncan's 5 titles where DUncan's only true competition was Shaq...

Magic was a winner on every level... :rockon:

[STATUTORY]

I like how people who discredit kobe's rings omit to mention Duncan is 2nd bananas to Tony Parker now and has been for long time.

oblivious fools think that bigman can't get carried by littles

[SamuraiSWISH]

oblivious fools think that bigman can't get carried by littles
See Pau Gasol
See Shaquille O'Neal
See Kareem Abdul Jabbar
See Bill Russell

Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars won their team two rings without a dominant big man.

It's a myth that little guys can't be as important if not more than a big man.

[sportjames23]

MAGIC in everyone's top five is a joke. I understand he took the NBA to New levels, but no way he is a top five player.

Please shut up.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Magic Johnson let SLEEPY FLOYD drop 50 on him in a playoff game. Soak that up people. Imagine the crap you'd give a superstar today if a role player did that to them? Sleepy Floyd, dropping half a century mark on Magic, in a playoff game. Atrocious defender.

[K Xerxes]

For his impact on the game, Magic stands at the top with Michael. But, as an overall basketball player, he's not that level of greatness. Best faciliator of all time, and great rebounding for his position, but he wasn't that great of a scorer and is the worst defender out of the consensus top 10.

I laugh when people say Magic is the second greatest of all time. How? His own team mate was better than him. Larry was the better player, easily. Wilt was better. etc etc. His affect on the game outshone his pure basketball abilities.

[Psileas]

Magic Johnson let SLEEPY FLOYD drop 50 on him in a playoff game. Soak that up people. Imagine the crap you'd give a superstar today if a role player did that to them? Sleepy Floyd, dropping half a century mark on Magic, in a playoff game. Atrocious defender.


A sample from that game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXjN61VKQi8

This along with some other evidence make me almost willing to bet you are lying. I seriously doubt Magic guarded Floyd that game. But if you are, I'm not surprised, it's not the first time I've seen people try to bring Magic down by mentioning games when he was supposedly torched while he wasn't even guarding these guys. It's like some others mentioning Jordan scoring 63 "on Bird" or Kobe scoring 55 "on Jordan" or that "Thomas torched Magic in 1988".

[nightprowler10]

people who rank bryant over duncan today or all-time are simply put uneducated losers.

there are only 3 players in nba history who have had a better career than duncan: michael jordan, kareem abdul-jabbar, and wilt chamberlain.
You might be forgetting someone obvious with 11 rings bro.

[DMAVS41]

bump

Duncan Goes Up On My List After This Finals...


Kareem
Jordan
Russell
Wilt

Magic
Duncan
Bird


Hakeem
Kobe
Shaq


I like this list. Mine is;

MJ
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe
Lebron

[ThaRegul8r]

MAGIC in everyone's top five is a joke. I understand he took the NBA to New levels, but no way he is a top five player.

You have your top five, everyone else has theirs. I find it curious when people feel the need to impose their arbitrary lists on everyone else. It isn't enough for people to have an opinion, but they have to proseltyze/force their opinion on everyone else. It's a sign of insecurity.

[STATUTORY]

I like this list. Mine is;

MJ
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe
Lebron

I like to see you apply the consistent argument you used to choose wade over Kobe for those seasons and apply it to Kobe and Duncan

[Dbrog]

I like how people who discredit kobe's rings omit to mention Duncan is 2nd bananas to Tony Parker now and has been for long time.

oblivious fools think that bigman can't get carried by littles

Except that Duncan played the best out of anyone on court not named Lebron yesterday. It's scary to think what prime Duncan would do...

[Carbine]

You could easily argue Duncan has as much impact on his team as anyone else playing for the Spurs. He didn't make All-NBA 1st team for nothing.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Shaq vs Duncan is certainly a legit debate....

I think Duncan was better personally...and I can only imagine what Duncan would have been able to accomplish playing with the kind of talent Shaq did.

duncan single handedly annihilated the lakers in 2005. derrick fisher was on the bench crying like a little bitch.

[Screamingdoom]

Duncan and Shaq are equal to me.

[NBASTATMAN]

See Pau Gasol
See Shaquille O'Neal
See Kareem Abdul Jabbar
See Bill Russell

Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars won their team two rings without a dominant big man.

It's a myth that little guys can't be as important if not more than a big man.
'

Everyone on this board claims Dennis Rodman was a SUPERSTAR... :roll:

I do agree that Little guys can carry bigs but its usually both playing in harmony that get it done..

You forgot aguirre and johnson..James edwards had a nice post up game as well.. And Bill Lambeer spread the floor..

[joeyjoejoe]

Since mj best peak probably shaq then duncan, best career Duncan

[chopchop20]

Kobe all day, every day over Duncan

[lpublic_enemyl]

SHAQ-FU the goat since b-ball gawd Jordan and after shaq then it's timmy

[Jacks3]

It's funny how Duncan fans wanna act like he hasn't had great supporting casts throughout his career. Dude is currently posting historically bad efficiency (50% TS, 101 ORTG) in this post-season and his team is still 3 wins away from winning it all. I know his game and impact goes beyond offense, but still...

That's really, really bad.

Let's not go crazy here. This is a fully collective effort.

[chopchop20]

Except that Duncan played the best out of anyone on court not named Lebron yesterday. It's scary to think what prime Duncan would do...

Whuh....? :biggums:

[The-Legend-24]

Getting up there as one of the most overrated players ever. Role player on his team yet they still win 50+ games every season. :roll: Never defended his title, which is a true sign of a champion, lost to an 8th seed while being a 1 seed.. :roll:

[chopchop20]

Getting up there as one of the most overrated players ever. Role player on his team yet they still win 50+ games every season. :roll: Never defended his title, which is a true sign of a champion, lost to an 8th seed while being a 1 seed.. :roll:

Prisoners of the Moment. Tim Duncan hasn't even been in the discussion as best player in the league since like 2005. Same guy who's been resting during the regular season for the past 3 -4 years.

Although I'm not a MJ fan, the fact that those bulls won 70+ games in the regular season makes respect the commitment to the game even more with I see out of some guys nowadays.

[Dbrog]

It's funny how Duncan fans wanna act like he hasn't had great supporting casts throughout his career. Dude is currently posting historically bad efficiency (50% TS, 101 ORTG) in this post-season and his team is still 3 wins away from winning it all. I know his game and impact goes beyond offense, but still...

That's really, really bad.

Let's not go crazy here. This is a fully collective effort.

Dude idk who you are trying to fool. He's never even played with a consistent allstar teammate other than old-man Robinson. As far as bad efficiency...really? Just watch the games...

[Dbrog]

Whuh....? :biggums:

Not sure what your problem is either. Duncan was indisputably the 2nd best player on the court last night (behind Bron).

[STATUTORY]

Except that Duncan played the best out of anyone on court not named Lebron yesterday. It's scary to think what prime Duncan would do...

:coleman:

First sentence shows lack understanding of the game or failure to watch the game

second sentence is irrelevant as hell. Sacry what prime kobe would done with this year's lakers team :confusedshrug:

[Dbrog]

:coleman:

First sentence shows lack understanding of the game or failure to watch the game

second sentence is irrelevant as hell. Sacry what prime kobe would done with this year's lakers team :confusedshrug:

And yet you can't name anyone other than Bron who played better. Troll harder plz :hammerhead: . 2nd sentence was more of reminiscing on Duncan's remarkable career.

[chopchop20]

Not sure what your problem is either. Duncan was indisputably the 2nd best player on the court last night (behind Bron).

Yet the only player that people have been talking about all day is Tony Parker. :facepalm

[Dbrog]

Yet the only player that people have been talking about all day is Tony Parker. :facepalm

If you could actually read, they are talking about 1 shot he took. He was just ok last game. I'm sure he'll step it up soon.

[chopchop20]

If you could actually read, they are talking about 1 shot he took. He was just ok last game. I'm sure he'll step it up soon.

I hope that you get help soon. Condolences to your parents. :facepalm