Something that always bothered me about the Kobe rape case....

[Knoe Itawl]

I'm not going to get into whether Kobe did or did not rape her. That's not what this thread is about. However, the talk regarding that case is what prompted me to make it, which I had been thinking about doing for awhile now but just got around to it.

During that time, and in the subsequent years that have followed, you constantly hear over and over again "Why would Kobe need to rape her" or "Kobe's a star NBA player, hahaha he doesn't need to rape" etc. etc. This is a very dangerous way of thinking for several reasons:

A. It implies that somehow celebrities aren't human beings, capable of the same failings and flaws as "regular" people. Following this line of thinking to it's logical conclusion no one who is rich and famous commits crimes. However we know that this isn't the case. In fact, one could make the argument that the more entitled some people get, the more they feel they have a "right" to dominate those that are "below" them.

B. It causes women who actually have been assaulted to fear coming forward because there is an automatic presumption that they are lying, and only after the accused's money, etc. etc. Additionally, a defense lawyer (especially a high powered one) is going to use everything sexual that the person may have done against them. By the time they're through with them, every game of spin the bottle they ever played will be magnified to make them look like the World's Worst Whore. Remember, prostitutes can be raped. A woman could've just finished a gangbang and still be raped.

Of course the idea that someone rich and famous wouldn't rape is ridiculous At the height of his fame, Mystikal was a star who I'm sure could have pulled many groupies. Yet, he was caught on tape sexually assualting a femaile, and subsequently spent 10 or so years in jail because of it. He didn't "need" to sexually assault someone.

Then there's the case of Alex Da Silva, a choreographer on "So You Think You can Dance" who was sentenced to 10 years in jail for rape. You have to assume that this man, in obviously good shape as a dancer, and around women all the time, and making good money would "not need to rape somone", and yet he did.

I could go on. The point is, think Kobe didn't rape her if tha'ts what you want to do. However, don't use the ignorant argument that "so and so wouldn't do this or that" just because they're a celebrity. It's a ridiculous argument that I suspect people use for two reasons:

1. Because they're stupid enough to believe it
2. Because they actually don't want to deal with the idea that someone they admire could be a criminal so it's an easy copout (even if it's a stupid argument)

Note: I certainly believe that there are women who make up sexual assaults. They should be punished severely. However, celebrities are just as capable of doing bad things as anyone else.

[Patrick Chewing]

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww92/TommyRoanoke/TayDidNotRead.gif

[Tainted Sword]

You really think about Kobe alot. It's a little pathetic bro.

That said you do have a point. Money and fame does not make humans incapable of doing wrong. Just look at all the famous people who do ****ed up shit.

[SilkkTheShocker]

brb, reading the OP's Bible passage

[DeuceWallaces]

This thread should be about how Kobe raped a girl, had his attorney's release her name, smear her in the press, and subsequently get away with it.

[Knoe Itawl]

This thread should be about how Kobe raped a girl, had his attorney's release her name, smear her in the press, and subsequently get away with it.

That would only drag it down to a battle between Bryant supporters and detractors. I wanted to make the larger point that even if you believe Bryant didn't rape her, using the "hahaha, he's a big star he doesn't need to rape" argument is ridiculous (which is what a lot of his supporters have used over the years).

[Knoe Itawl]

You really think about Kobe alot. It's a little pathetic bro.

That said you do have a point. Money and fame does not make humans incapable of doing wrong. Just look at all the famous people who do ****ed up shit.

I could have formed the argument in a way that had nothing to do with the Bryant rape case however that case, and the subsequent arguments from many of his supporters is what made me think about the larger point (which actually doesn't have to do with Bryant himself though his rape case illustrated it).

[MMM]

OP makes a good point

[KevinNYC]

When I joined this board and started reading all the Kobe rape jokes, I realized I never really looked into why he got off. After reviewing the case, I don't think he did it. The woman refused to testify and then settled the civil case with basically an apology and no payment of damages. I believe she did this because she knew her testimony wouldn't stand up and she might face perjury charges.

However, your point stands, he was not, de facto, innocent of his crimes because he was a celebrity and can get women. In this case, he was innocent because he had a consensual sexual encounter.

[BrooklynZoo]

We are all aware that celebrities are capable of rape/crime. We are also aware that they are targets for such claims and threats because of their fame and fortune. Thanks for posting

[Knoe Itawl]

We are all aware that celebrities are capable of rape/crime. We are also aware that they are targets for such claims and threats because of their fame and fortune. Thanks for posting

Obviously not because much of the talk when the case was first announced (and long after) was about how he didn't need to because he was a superstar athlete who could easily get women, hence the point of this thread.

Thanks for replying.

[BrooklynZoo]

Obviously not because much of the talk when the case was first announced (and long after) was about how he didn't need to because he was a superstar athlete who could easily get women, hence the point of this thread.

Thanks for replying.

He can get almost any girl he wants. He has a ton of money. Obviously no one is dumb enough to think its physically impossible for it to happen but the burden is on her to prove that he did it otherwise anyone can charge a celebrity with rape. Wasnt she the girl who was found to have had sex with someone else right around the same time?

[Knoe Itawl]

When I joined this board and started reading all the Kobe rape jokes, I realized I never really looked into why he got off. After reviewing the case, I don't think he did it. The woman refused to testify and then settled the civil case with basically an apology and no payment of damages. I believe she did this because she knew her testimony wouldn't stand up and she might face perjury charges.

However, your point stands, he was not, de facto, innocent of his crimes because he was a celebrity and can get women. In this case, he was innocent because he had a consensual sexual encounter.

I said I wasn't going to talk about his guilt or innocense, so I'll just point out that the first part of what I bolded was my main point. I found it disturbing that so many used the "he doesn't have to rape" argument as if it was actually legitimate. Kobe himself even said to reporters "You know me". Umm, no we don't. Because you see someone on a basketball court, interviews, etc. doesn't mean you know them.

[Knoe Itawl]

He can get almost any girl he wants. He has a ton of money. Obviously no one is dumb enough to think its physically impossible for it to happen but the burden is on her to prove that he did it otherwise anyone can charge any celebrity with rape. Wasnt she the girl who was found to have had sex with someone else right around the same time?

No offense but either you lack reading comprehension skills or didn't read my initial post. I stated that this wasn't about his guilt or innocense, but rather this notion that a superstar athlete wouldn't rape because they have money and fame, which is patently false and a dangerous way of thinking. Again, NOT about his guilt or innocense.

[BrooklynZoo]

No offense but either you lack reading comprehension skills or didn't read my initial post. I stated that this wasn't about his guilt or innocense, but rather this notion that a superstar athlete wouldn't rape because they have money and fame, which is patently false and a dangerous way of thinking. Again, NOT about his guilt or innocense.

thanks captain obvious :applause:

the girl made a ton of money off of him btw. Do you think that might motivate someone to lie?

[Knoe Itawl]

thanks captain obvious :applause:

the girl made a ton of money off of him btw. Do you think that might motivate someone to lie?

If it's so "obvious", why did so many people use that argument?

Also, I'm ignoring the second part because it goes to guilt or innocence which I said I wasn't going to discuss.

If you have nothing more to add to the point, then shame on you when you step thru to the Knoe Dirty Bastard

[BrooklynZoo]

the fact remains that it is a valid argument. So now what is the point in this thread?

[KevinNYC]

the girl made a ton of money off of him btw.

What money did she make off him?

[unbreakable]

the accuser had 3 different dudes' semens in her stank pu55y... she was certified crazy aint no way kobe raped her idiots

[BrooklynZoo]

What money did she make off him?

i have no idea but if they reached a settlement that pretty much guarantees she got PAID

[Jackass18]

the fact remains that it is a valid argument. So now what is the point in this thread?

He's saying that's a dangerous way of thinking and it's true.

[joe]

When I joined this board and started reading all the Kobe rape jokes, I realized I never really looked into why he got off. After reviewing the case, I don't think he did it. The woman refused to testify and then settled the civil case with basically an apology and no payment of damages. I believe she did this because she knew her testimony wouldn't stand up and she might face perjury charges.

However, your point stands, he was not, de facto, innocent of his crimes because he was a celebrity and can get women. In this case, he was innocent because he had a consensual sexual encounter.

My cousin from Boulder told me his friend worked at the hotel, and heard that Kobe was having consexual sex with the girl, but that he wanted to put it in her butt. She said no, and he forced it into her butt. That's what I heard. My cousin is not the type to pass along shoddy information, he's a psychiatrist for Christ's sake, so I tend to believe it. Not 100% but, blew my mind when he told me. lmao

[KevinNYC]

i have no idea but if they reached a settlement that pretty much guarantees she got PAID
Kobe's public statement says no money was paid to her
No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1872928


HOWEVER, as I look at this was after the criminal case, not after the settlement of the civil suit......so he still could have written a check.

[KevinNYC]

My cousin from Boulder told me his friend worked at the hotel, and heard that Kobe was having consexual sex with the girl, but that he wanted to put it in her butt. She said no, and he forced it into her butt. That's what I heard. My cousin is not the type to pass along shoddy information, he's a psychiatrist for Christ's sake, so I tend to believe it. Not 100% but, blew my mind when he told me. lmao

I believe you can read the police interviews with Kobe right after it happened somewhere on the web; don't feel like looking for them right now. According to him it was consensual and she told him to stop and he stopped and he said he was going to finish and she was fine with that, but then he asked to ejaculate on her and she took offense. He seemed genuinely surprised.

I remember reading them and they sounded convincing. He started off lying to the cops and then seems to level with them and his story was consistent.....this is without a lawyer...he was mainly worried about bad publicity and his wife....not jail time....that is he seemed genuinely like your average married schmuck who ****ed up, not a criminal schmuck who ****ed up.

[BrooklynZoo]

He's saying that's a dangerous way of thinking and it's true.

no, its a rational way of thinking that its unlikely that he would rape her. Whats dangerous is assuming that it isn't.

[BrooklynZoo]

Kobe's public statement says no money was paid to her

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1872928


HOWEVER, as I look at this was after the criminal case, not after the settlement of the civil suit......so he still could have written a check.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/2005-03-02-bryant-settles_x.htm

There's a lot of articles about the settlement though I dont know that any figure was ever reported. Given the profile of the case, I think its safe to assume she got a decent amount

[magic chiongson]

knoe is active again :bowdown:

tldr btw

[Smoke117]

Who cares whether he raped her or not? Mike Tyson was CONVICTED OF RAPE, served a couple of years (because you don't get much for rape), and then was starring in the Hangover with people loving him! And that mother ****ing negroit was CONVICTED!

[Tarik One]

Who cares whether he raped her or not? Mike Tyson was CONVICTED OF RAPE, served a couple of years (because you don't get much for rape), and then was starring in the Hangover with people loving him! And that mother ****ing negroit was CONVICTED!
Mike was poorly represented during his trial. He didn't even have an actual defense attorney

[Jackass18]

no, its a rational way of thinking that its unlikely that he would rape her. Whats dangerous is assuming that it isn't.

That's not really rational. Assumptions like that is what many criminals thrive on.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Plus most rapes aren't about sex, they're about control or dominance... Kobe and other hyper-alpha athletes definitely don't have control and dominance issues you guys.

All due respect professor M but that's a lie propagated by feminists as a projection of their own opinions on sexuality. Much like how they think status and money and fame and being sassy gets them guys. It's a projection if what they themselves internally believe on to others.

Females USE sex to control and condition men. How many men withdraw sex in order to condition their girls behavior? How many women go around keeping their mouths shut about how an attractive dude hits on them? Very few, makes them feel powerful. Just like wives go into their little groups and talk about training their husbands and boasting about their matriarchal power. True story,

I assure you Rambo is correct in his horny assertion.

Also nothing wrong with seeking to be a hyper alpha. Part of it is insecurity but part of is mans instinct to dominate. I respect your opinions here but there's way too much psychological pseudoscience bulksh!t being spewed by Left winged folks to curb behavior and weaken men and propagate certain groups interests... To be passed off as truth

Adler Freud and Jung would absolutely cringe at the kind of lies being passed off as conventionsl wisdom in the here and now

[bdreason]

I personally don't believe Kobe would be willing to risk his family, his kids, his career, his millions of dollars, and a chance to spend years in prison... so he could rape some random chick on a road trip.

It has nothing to do with him being a celebrity, and everything to do with common sense. Is Kobe capable of raping a girl? Maybe. Do I believe he would take a chance at throwing away his life to rape some random girl? Nope.

[bdreason]

No offense but either you lack reading comprehension skills or didn't read my initial post. I stated that this wasn't about his guilt or innocense, but rather this notion that a superstar athlete wouldn't rape because they have money and fame, which is patently false and a dangerous way of thinking. Again, NOT about his guilt or innocense.


It's completely logical to assume that someone who has more to lose, will take less risks. It's about risk vs. reward... and Kobe raping some random girl is risking everything for very little reward.

[InspiredLebowski]

All due respect professor M but that's a lie propagated by feminists as a projection of their own opinions on sexuality. Much like how they think status and money and fame and being sassy gets them guys. It's a projection if what they themselves internally believe on to others.

Females USE sex to control and condition men. How many men withdraw sex in order to condition their girls behavior? How many women go around keeping their mouths shut about how an attractive dude hits on them? Very few, makes them feel powerful. Just like wives go into their little groups and talk about training their husbands and boasting about their matriarchal power. True story,

I assure you Rambo is correct in his horny assertion.

Also nothing wrong with seeking to be a hyper alpha. Part of it is insecurity but part of is mans instinct to dominate. I respect your opinions here but there's way too much psychological pseudoscience bulksh!t being spewed by Left winged folks to curb behavior and weaken men and propagate certain groups interests... To be passed off as truth

Adler Freud and Jung would absolutely cringe at the kind of lies being passed off as conventionsl wisdom in the here and nowWhy're you acting like females using their only legitimate power over men to gain control is a bad thing? It is morally I suppose, but only as bad as us using our physical presence to do the same thing. Survival of the fittest isn't a male specific trait.

[BlackJoker23]

so after all these years we finally found out the op is katelyn faber

[Clifton]

It's pretty darn obvious that Kobe was not a perfect gentleman that night. The problem with the concept of "rape" is that in a hookup culture, semi-rapes happen to thousands of women a day. But nobody can identify it as sexual assault, because the encounter was consensual, and in the heat of things stuff got a bit questionable.

So she felt really dirty and used, because that's what she was. But it's not like someone stuck a needle in her neck, dragged her into his hotel room, and railed her for hours while she shouted "no" and "stop". More likely, she had something different in mind than what she got, and when Kobe turned the tables, her will was divided and mostly against it, and her body was for it. She knew she had no case and that it wasn't obvious that Kobe did anything clearly bad.

But I sorta feel like sex in a hookup culture is either kinda pathetic or kinda rapey. If there's no love involved, you're just using the other person, either for her body in an act of male dominance, or as a temporary cure for emotional insecurities. And to be honest, the former is manlier, and probably more virtuous, than the latter.

[Knoe Itawl]

While I appreciate that there are some thought out points contributed, I really went out of my way to point out that I wasnt making this thread about Bryant's guilt or innocence. I have strong feelings about his guilt or innocence, but if I wanted to rehash that, I would've created a thread to re-litigate the case itself.

Once again, my point is that I found it disturbing that so many people gave him an automatic pass because of his celebrity status and the fact that he could "get women", which is a seriously flawed argument and gives celebrities an automatic benefit of the doubt over "regular" people that they shouldn't get.


It's completely logical to assume that someone who has more to lose, will take less risks. It's about risk vs. reward... and Kobe raping some random girl is risking everything for very little reward.

Sorry, but that's just ridiculous. There have been people who have thrown away their lives for nothing and had the world. Bernie Madoff was already a multi millionaire and successful. He didn't have to committ fraud, and yet he did and is now going to be in jail for the rest of his life as opposed to enjoying his riches in old age. I could type a long essay on people who threw their lives away for "little reward". As I pointed out in my initial post, what was the reward for Mystikal, a multi-platinum artist on the biggest rap label at the time, filming himself sexually assaulting a woman? Sorry, but your argument is far from a given, there are many many examples to refute it.

As for everyone else who replied with nonsense having nothing to do with the topic, I actually appreciate it. Gives me an easy list of some people to throw on the ignore list for being stupid.

[bdreason]

People who would be risking the same/more have done it, so why would you think he's immune?

I didn't say he's immune. I said my first thought, given only the circumstantial evidence, is that it's unlikely. Given the specific evidence I've heard through the media, I would say it's highly unlikely. Under the premise innocent until proven guilty, the burden of evidence falls on the accuser... whom apparently dropped the case.

The general point is that I'm not going to ignore the general circumstances surrounding the incident. A homeless, ex-con gets accused of raping a girl in an alley... and my initial thought would lean towards guilty. A multi-millionare celebrity with a beautiful wife and children, who has thousands of women throwing themselves at him, gets accused of raping a girl that came to his hotel room? My thoughts lean towards innocent.

Maybe he did it, maybe he didn't, but I'm not going to ignore the circumstances surrounding the case.

[Jackass18]

I don't have a problem thinking it's unlikely, but as long as you don't dismiss it with that being your only argument. There are people in this world who thrive on that stuff. They do it because they know they can get away with it, and they find it to be a thrill. Imagine 2 brothers, 1 is a really nice and well behaved kid with a great reputation and the other is known as a trouble maker who gets into trouble all the time. Now, let's say the nice brother steals money from 1 of his parents. Then, the brother with the bad rep gets blamed and punished for it while the good brother gets away with it without anyone ever suspecting him of it (hell, even the bad brother doesn't suspect that the good brother would have done something like that). This plants a seed in the 'good' brother's mind and it can be awfully dangerous.

There have been plenty of rich people who stole
There have been plenty of priests, pastors, ministers, etc. who have done unthinkable acts
There have been plenty of politicians who turned out to be criminals

You say Kobe would be risking too much, but the average Joe wouldn't be? A person's own freedom is a grand risk. Doesn't matter who it is for the most part. I just don't like putting someone up on a pedestal, like the OP stated, as a person not "capable of the same failings and flaws as "regular" people".

[longtime lurker]

Something that's always bothered me about OP. If Kobe didn't exist would he be still be an obnoxious tool?

Seriously though. Cases like this: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295190

is why I'm don't always crucify celebrities as guilty before all the facts come out. I know it's impossible for a lot of people to believe, but there are people out there that would use a serious crime like rape for their own personal agenda.

[iamgine]

]If it's so "obvious", why did so many people use that argument?[/B]

Because it makes sense that the girl has more motive to lie than Kobe to rape her. :hammerhead:

[PHX_Phan]

Because it makes sense that the girl has more motive to lie than Kobe to rape her. :hammerhead:

This. Many leaned in Kobe's favor because of who had the most motive. Very few people said he was incapable of rape - it's just an unlikely scenario.

Is this just as bad or worse than the people who instantly labeled him guilty of rape because they didn't like him as a player or person? At least the former had legitimate reasoning behind their thinking.

[MadeFromDust]

Was the name of the chick who bent over and dropped panty KATELYN KRISTIN FABER by any chance?