Do you think Kobe could've won a championship

[I<3NBA]

in Cleveland?

he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Original thread idea.

[The Playmaker]

there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.

[jcsrplumply]

Here we go again.

[I<3NBA]

there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.
i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009

and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team

prime kobe was alpha as f*CK

so to answer op... yes

[retaxis]

Kobe is a great player but comparing Lebrons 06 team to the best NBA front line that Kobe won with in Gasol-Odom-Bynum is not really comparable. Kobe can win but not without a hell of a lot of BIG MAN help.

[Boomerang]

Current Lebron would take old Cavs team to championship.

[miller-time]

kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009

and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team

prime kobe was alpha as f*CK

so to answer op... yes

And what 90-100 all time player did the Cavs have? Their second best scorer was Larry Hughes.

Kobe had

Pau > Gooden
Bynum > Ilgauskas
Odom > Pavlovic

Lakers without Kobe were way higher than Cavs without LeBron.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is a great player but comparing Lebrons 06 team to the best NBA front line that Kobe won with in Gasol-Odom-Bynum is not really comparable. Kobe can win but not without a hell of a lot of BIG MAN help.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frewfr-2_zps337802f6.png

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa280/cashforcards/frfr-1_zpsd1cfc0ef.jpg

[K]

He wouldn't get them out of the first round. Lebron is just a better player than Kobe.

[retaxis]

Ken you know as well as I do Gasol - Odom (sixth man of the year) - Bynum (defence big body) was the best frontline in the NBA those years not to take anything from Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

[QUOTE=K

[KOBE143]

Kobe won b2b with Gasoft, Odumb, No knees Bynum and Fisher the worst starting pg of all time as his best teammates, so YES..

[6 for 24]

My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

[kennethgriffin]

My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye


the problem here is


those cleveland teams won more games than any heat team thus far

and lebron is supposed to be better now than ever


so if it truly was ALL lebron... then the heat with 10 times better a linup should have resulted in atleast a few 60 win seasons by now...

but the truth is.. those cleveland teams werent built on offense. they were a defensive power house

they were like the bulls are now or with rose ... it didnt really matter that they had less offensive fire power


so yes. kobe could easly have won with those cleveland teams. all they were really missing was a guy who could perform in 4th quarters and keep composure in the playoffs... lebron lost his mind and tried doing too much. then choked when the the bright lights were on him

only in 2012 did lebron finally come out of his shell

[FPJ]

If he played with that team in the West, i dont think he would have made the playoffs. In the East, he'd go out in the first round. That doesnt mean he's necessarily a worst player, he's just not the right kind of player to make that team a lot better than it's roster advertises, in my opinion.

Kobe is an amazing player in certain systems, and he depends a lot on the bigs while Lebron can adapt his game in any condition.

[I<3NBA]

My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
My good man, Ayotunde Ndiaye

it pains me to inform you that putting the ball in the basket is not the only prerequisite to winning championships. one must also stop the other team from putting the ball in their own basket, preferably getting them to score less. consider it a contest of who hunts the most lions.

so in this contest, you not only need a team with a deadly hunter (such as your idol Kobe "Chucker" Bryant), but you also need a team with a "hunter stopper."

i think it is time to introduce you to a great "hunter stopper"

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/common/medialib/269/728701.jpg

he may not look like it, but he is currently the best at stopping the top hunter (his name is Kevin Durant btw and he has led the league in scoring for 3 straight years. who do you know in Mozambique has led your tribe in killing lions for 3 straight years?) in NBA today.

best of luck in your hunting endeavors btw.

[6 for 24]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye


I'm actually laughing out loud... You could be GOAT poster. I hope you don't get banned.

[I<3NBA]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
Mr. Ayotunde Ndiaye,

that's a very interesting sport, and i agree the game you play is similar to the game of basketball. however, let me correct your analogy a bit more. think of basketball as having a limited number of stones to throw. killing the adulterer using less stones is thus more desirable as "chucking" with no moral concern will actually lead to your team losing as you will run out of stones if you cannot kill the adulterer in time.

[Breezy]

considering how Kobe's doing with 3 other Hall of fame players... Yes. He could definitely win with Big Z or eric snow.

[6 for 24]

Mr. <8:

What a very attractive and well-dressed woman! Only the wealthiest of our ladies could afford such garments. I find it most hard to believe such a delicate flower could compete in this game, so you must be making a funny with me.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

(Could I get her number by chance?)

[I<3NBA]

Mr. <8:

What a very attractive and well-dressed woman! Only the wealthiest of our ladies could afford such garments. I find it most hard to believe such a delicate flower could compete in this game, so you must be making a funny with me.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

(Could I get her number by chance?)
Dear Ayotunde,

A woman he is not! I jest you not, but that person is actually a man. yes, surprising i know. but nevertheless, he is a man, who, i have been told to believe, has the blood of a turtle. it is said that is how he gets the stamina of stopping the top hunter, Kevin "baby face assassin" Durant. his turtle genes combine with his urkel sense and he stops the assassin with great ease.

[Sparts Arwell]

Mr. Ayotunde Ndiaye,

that's a very interesting sport, and i agree the game you play is similar to the game of basketball. however, let me correct your analogy a bit more. think of basketball as having a limited number of stones to throw. killing the adulterer using less stones is thus more desirable as "chucking" with no moral concern will actually lead to your team losing as you will run out of stones if you cannot kill the adulterer in time.


I agree with this here, but even so a proper team effort can result in success. Imagine you have a gunner chucking a whole bunch of rocks from a distance with mediocre effectivness. But you also have three very tall guys up right near the pole who are throwing their rocks from where it is harder to miss. Plus you also have a wing player from the village who isnt afraid to guard for lions, and always does the guarding so the gunner can keep doing the heavy chucking.

This will lead to victory and the heavy chucker will be celebrated by the youngest villagers and the families who grew up too poor to have been allowed to go to school.

[Doctor Rivers]

I'm actually laughing out loud... You could be GOAT poster. I hope you don't get banned.

I hope he does

[DMAVS41]

the problem here is


those cleveland teams won more games than any heat team thus far

and lebron is supposed to be better now than ever


so if it truly was ALL lebron... then the heat with 10 times better a linup should have resulted in atleast a few 60 win seasons by now...

but the truth is.. those cleveland teams werent built on offense. they were a defensive power house

they were like the bulls are now or with rose ... it didnt really matter that they had less offensive fire power


so yes. kobe could easly have won with those cleveland teams. all they were really missing was a guy who could perform in 4th quarters and keep composure in the playoffs... lebron lost his mind and tried doing too much. then choked when the the bright lights were on him

only in 2012 did lebron finally come out of his shell

No, the real problem is that those teams had success in the regular season because they tried harder and came to play every single night. That isn't to way they weren't really good...and your point about defense is true. But they lost because they didn't have enough talent to beat other elite teams...or teams that got hot.

Regular season success is not always an indication of how good a team is. The current Heat could win more games than those Cavs teams if they really wanted...hell, we just saw them win 27 in a row. But these guys take nights off and don't push themselves the way those Cavs teams did.

Yet we all know these Heat teams are infinitely better.

[deja vu]

My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/clapping/358bgh5.jpg.gif

[TheBigVeto]

Hell no, it's a small market. Stern wouldn't have supported him.

[Vertical-24]

i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.

Oh yeah I forgot LeBron was a copy.

[thabisyo]

there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.

This

Even Jordan wouldn't get a chip in Cleveland :lol

[lilgodfather1]

The '07 team? If that's the team you're talking about, there isn't a player in NBA history that could have led that particular team to a title. Not prime Shaq, not prime Jordan, not current LeBron, and certainly no form of Kobe.

That team was horrible. Larry Hughes missed the finals, that seems to be often overlooked. Besides if it wasn't for some miracle Boobie Gibson 3's, and a LeBron James massacre of Detroit in GM5, the Cavs don't even make the finals. Hell Kobe likely wouldn't have been able to get that team out of the first round. When he had comparable talent to that team he pouted, and his team got put out in the first round.

If you mean '10, then maybe. We don't know what would have happened if LeBron hadn't quit. In 2009 there's no shot. In order for the Cavs to win Kobe would have had to have at least a 43/8/8 series, as LeBron had a 38/8/8 one. Considering the numbers Kobe put up against those same Magic in the finals, I think it's safe to say we wouldn't see those numbers from Kobe.

[pauk]

i think MJ could have won with that team. the original is better than the copy.

MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years, with experience & lineup/strategy changes they got better and Lakers/Celtics/Pistons dying out helped alot aswell... i am not sure he or anybody could have won a championship with Larry Hughes or Mo Williams being their 2nd option....

All i am saying is that this is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter, except perhaps give wins in the regular season and perhaps give a you playoff run.......

[All Net]

No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.

[DMAVS41]

MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years.

This is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter...

True, but in 08 and 10...I'd argue that current Lebron gets it done in one of those years. Or at least he gets by the Celtics. So it's hardly going off the rails to think prime MJ would have been able to do some special things those years. 09 was just not going to happen because the Magic just went nuts...and the 07 team was just not good enough.

[Quintilianus]

Kobe probably would've lead that team to a tile in 09 and 10, especially 10.
However, he wouldn't have gone as far with that 07 team, I think that team would be destroyed in ECF.

[thabisyo]

MJ was in similar situation before he got the roster of Pippen / Grant with some lineup changes, look what happened, just being fair here. Even when he got Pippen/Grant he wasnt able to come up with a championship for about 3-4 years, with experience & lineup/strategy changes they got better and Lakers/Celtics/Pistons dying out helped alot aswell... i am not sure he or anybody could have won a championship with Larry Hughes or Mo Williams being their 2nd option....

All i am saying is that this is a team game unfortunately.... one player can have great impact, but if you do not have the required supporting cast then that wont matter, except perhaps give wins in the regular season and perhaps give a you playoff run.......

Exactly, people act like MJ could win before pippen showed up

[pauk]

Michael Jordan (before the age of 28) and Lebron James (before the age of 27) are some of the finest example in NBA history who could prove to you that no matter how good a player can get you may never win one if you do not have the cast.... Kobe Bryant is also a fine example during the time of after-Shaq and pre-Gasol, hell Kobe was at his absolutely max peak talent/skill wise around 2005, to no avail at the end of the day due to supporting cast.... many other examples... Oscar... Wilt... Shaq... Hakeem... D.Robinson... Duncan.... etc....

This is unfortunately not tennis.... the best player doesnt win championships, the best team does....

[thabisyo]

Kobe probably would've lead that team to a tile in 09 and 10, especially 10.
However, he wouldn't have gone as far with that 07 team, I think that team would be destroyed in ECF.

Celtics were too stacked from '08 to '10. one of the factors that kept stopping lebron except 09 where they were injured

[Quintilianus]

Celtics were too stacked from '08 to '10. one of the factors that kept stopping lebron except 09 where they were injured
It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.

[lilgodfather1]

It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.
Except the Cavs second best overall player in '08, and '09 was a SG, and their backup SF was who again? People forget just how good Delonte West was, especially in the playoffs. That man had no quit in him, and always gave it his best on both ends.

[jcsrplumply]

Exactly, people act like MJ could win before pippen showed up
Celtics were too stacked on the 80's era. one of the factors that kept stopping Jordan from winning a series until Pippen showed up.

[SilkkTheShocker]

A more realistic question would be how long it would take for him to demand a trade.

[DMAVS41]

It wasn't that the celtics were so stacked, it was their defense, and LeBron without that postgame that he only recently developed (which I think made him the best player in the league last year, hopefully for many years to come) wasn't able to do anything. That broke him down mentally.
Kobe, on the other hand, would've been able to score with his post moves, and since that was a team of shooters, something that Kobe has never had, it would've been interesting to see kobe being constantly doubled in the post and shooters getting all kinds of looks. And if you leave him 1v1 in the post, that's probably the deadliest weapon in the league.
[B]Plus Kobe would never brake down mentally in any situation, he could start missing shots, but he would never quit, and we know that lebron quit.
[/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?

[Bandito]

I dont think Kobe couldve gone far with this team, or at least farther then Lebron did. But Kobe wouldn't have quit in 2010, he would've at least tried. But the problem with that Cavs team is that it was built for Lebron James not Kobe bryant. Kobe is not the passer Lebron is.

What happened to that Cavs team is that they needed another player that could shoot or defend better in the post.

And why do people pretend like Bynum was such a factor when he played like ten minutes per game in both championship season? It was pretty much Odom who wasn't even a good defender coming off the bench and Gasol while a great player is not a superstar like Lebron stans say he is.

[TheBigVeto]

[/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?

Brah, only Kobetards ignore that beautiful fact, pretending it didn't exist.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe quit in game 7 of the 06 playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

I dont think Kobe couldve gone far with this team, or at least farther then Lebron did. But Kobe wouldn't have quit in 2010, he would've at least tried. But the problem with that Cavs team is that it was built for Lebron James not Kobe bryant. Kobe is not the passer Lebron is.

What happened to that Cavs team is that they needed another player that could shoot or defend better in the post.

And why do people pretend like Bynum was such a factor when he played like ten minutes per game in both championship season? It was pretty much Odom who wasn't even a good defender coming off the bench and Gasol while a great player is not a superstar like Lebron stans say he is.

Why did Kobe quit in 2006 then?

[Quintilianus]

[/B

Why do people act like the game 7 against the suns in 06 never happened?
Why do people act like 6 games before that never happened?
Kobe tried to use the tactic that brought them back where he hit that game-tieing and later game-winning shot. That game-tieing shot was the 1st or 2n shot of the 4th quarter for kobe, and they were down in that game too, so they managed to comeback with kobe playing as a decoy.
He later on scored 50 points in a loss just to realize that high scoring from him doesn't phase the suns.
Lakers tried to comeback with the same tactic in game 7. Kobe still played good in first three quarters, he had 20 something points with 50+FG%. And they were down 20+, so it's not like his aggresive play could've saved them, when the only tactic that worked in comebacks in that series was him being a decoy and not shooting that much

[Xiao Yao You]

Is Phil the coach in the scenario because Kobe has won nothing without him.

[DMAVS41]

Why do people act like 6 games before that never happened?
Kobe tried to use the tactic that brought them back where he hit that game-tieing and later game-winning shot. That game-tieing shot was the 1st or 2n shot of the 4th quarter for kobe, and they were down in that game too, so they managed to comeback with kobe playing as a decoy.
He later on scored 50 points in a loss just to realize that high scoring from him doesn't phase the suns.
Lakers tried to comeback with the same tactic in game 7. Kobe still played good in first three quarters, he had 20 something points with 50+FG%. And they were down 20+, so it's not like his aggresive play could've saved them, when the only tactic that worked in comebacks in that series was him being a decoy and not shooting that much

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe did exactly what you claim and others claim he'd never do.

Never ceases to amaze me.

And Kobe's play in that series for a superstar was good, but hardly great. Please don't act otherwise because it's just not true.

[Anaximandro1]

there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.
Olajuwon and Duncan led championship teams in pts,rb,as and blk

peak Olajuwon or Duncan + Mo Williams,Delonte West,Gibson,Pavlovic,Wally,Joe Smith,Big Z and Varejao could have been enough to win a title

[Quintilianus]

Still doesn't change the fact that Kobe did exactly what you claim and others claim he'd never do.

Never ceases to amaze me.

And Kobe's play in that series for a superstar was good, but hardly great. Please don't act otherwise because it's just not true.
Did Kobe stop playing defense in that game? Did he stop facilitating? No, nor he had many turnovers in the 4th or the whole game.

[DMAVS41]

Did Kobe stop playing defense in that game? Did he stop facilitating? No, nor he had many turnovers in the 4th or the whole game.

He clearly quit in the 2nd half...and was sending a message. Do we really have to debate this?

Do people think something less than a decade ago is just going to be forgotten or not properly remembered.

Kobe quit in the 2nd half...plain and simple.

So acting like Kobe would never pull what Lebron did in game 5 in 2010 is not a valid argument at all.

[Bandito]

Why did Kobe quit in 2006 then?
He was sending a message to Phil that him passing was no way to win a championship.:roll:

And he proved him right.:banana:


**** if I know what he quit. Who am I his conscience? But don't compare 2006 with 2010 either, the team Lebron had was better than 06 Lakers by a lot.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Kobe would have a hard time to lead that Cavs' team into the playoffs, let alone to lead them so deep as Lebron did year after year.

[lebeast666]

Good one OP http://www.imgur.com/PaH5ZG1.png

[TheReturn]

No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.
/Thread

[thabisyo]

He was sending a message to Phil that him passing was no way to win a championship.:roll:

And he proved him right.:banana:


**** if I know what he quit. Who am I his conscience? But don't compare 2006 with 2010 either, the team Lebron had was better than 06 Lakers by a lot.

:lol

Even now on paper, the lakers are better than the maimi

[pegasus]

They would have made it to the ECF every single year, and I'm sure they would have won at least one chip.

[riseagainst]

My InsideHoops brothers & sisters:

This is a wonderful discussion! Now here in Mozambique, we did not receive the NBA broadcasts during the time you refer to, but I can only assume this Cleveland team was horrible, yes? So the question is, can the great Kobe Bryant take a horrible team to the championship trophy?

I am no expert on the basketball, but, from the many hours I have watched Kobe Bryant, I would say yes, emphatically! I believe, so long as there are players that are willing to give Kobe the ball, the ball will find its way to the cylinder, awarding the points necessary to be victorious.

For example, let us look at this season. Again, it is difficult for me to follow the broadcasts due to the inclement weather and the lions, but from my understanding, Kobe has quite horrible teammates this year. And yet it seems his team is again the favorites to win the championship title! This is quite remarkable!

So, yes, yes, one thousand times yes!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

:biggums:

[cavsfanatic]

A better thread would have been "Do you think Lebron could have had The Lakers comfortably in Playoffs instead of 9th?" it may not have fit, but it makes more sense

[gengiskhan]

in Cleveland?

he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.

BUT

Kobe is clearly LOWER than LBJ in the following departments:

-Talent
-Strength
-Stamina
-Endurance
-B'ball IQ

&

-Efficiency above all.

Kobe will get his 45 wins with CLE with few 34-35 ppg seasons. Thats about it.

Forget CLE ever crossing the 50 win season with inefficient superstar!

1st round or 2nd round exit on reg basis in post season.

Just cuz some once can chuck away 27 FGA at 45%FG dont make them a championship material.

ask AI.

[chips93]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

welcome to ISH

:cheers:

my new favorite poster

[chazzy]

welcome to ISH

:cheers:

my new favorite poster
it's a starface gimmick

[dh144498]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

best gimmick ever!!! :roll: :applause:

[Flash31]

The only person or persons that couldve won
with those teams are

Wilt,Jordan,Shaq

Wilt would dominate any frontline any you would have to double,triple wilt nowadays,also Wilt was the greatest rebounder,shotblocker and could play the whole game and was one of greatest defensive players along with
the Most Dominating player of all time.

Jordan could score from anywhere besides 3 pt line good and had amazing defense and with tge current game Jordan wouldnt be stopped.

Shaq would abuse every frontline player in front of him and would foul people out,the sheer size of him would put a blockage of paint play,and with Howard getting 10 ft that year almost and all these otger stars Shaq would get 15+

[chips93]

it's a starface gimmick

cant say im familiar

[Flash31]

Considering when wilt had to or wanted to or had to be offensive focus
he put up 50 For a Season along with 25 rebounds

And when he wanted to pass he put up 30,25,10

and defense 25,28

Jordan scored 40,50,60 against the celtics,put up pts vs pistons,destroyed the cavs,He avg 30 in all the playoffs,If he had to do everything
youd see 35,8,12 most likely or even more with the rules today and ft.

Shaq avg 35,12,3 in his dominating playoff year
and was against a better frontline than what LeBron went against those years and even with Dwight,Shaq as an old man against Dwight still put up pts and Dwight couldnt stop him but Shaq could slow down Dwight
And he had 12 fta with the current then rules 15-20 fta those playoffs putting up
possibly 40,15,4 on 48-55% fg rather than his 60-65% usual.

[gengiskhan]

The only person or persons that couldve won
with those teams are

Wilt,Jordan,Shaq

Wilt would dominate any frontline any you would have to double,triple wilt nowadays,also Wilt was the greatest rebounder,shotblocker and could play the whole game and was one of greatest defensive players along with
the Most Dominating player of all time.

Jordan could score from anywhere besides 3 pt line good and had amazing defense and with tge current game Jordan wouldnt be stopped.

Shaq would abuse every frontline player in front of him and would foul people out,the sheer size of him would put a blockage of paint play,and with Howard getting 10 ft that year almost and all these otger stars Shaq would get 15+

This

/thread

[Ne 1]

there isn't a single player in nba history that could have won with cleveland.

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.

[cavsfanatic]

BUT

Kobe is clearly LOWER than LBJ in the following departments:

-Talent
-Strength
-Stamina
-Endurance
-B'ball IQ

&

-Efficiency above all.

Kobe will get his 45 wins with CLE with few 34-35 ppg seasons. Thats about it.

Forget CLE ever crossing the 50 win season with inefficient superstar!

1st round or 2nd round exit on reg basis in post season.

Just cuz some once can chuck away 27 FGA at 45%FG dont make them a championship material.

ask AI.
Just ask Kobe. When he was averaging all those points his team was 8th seed getting smacked by The Suns.

[PJR]

:oldlol: Kobe would've demanded a trade out of Cleveland, after concluding his rookie year. Like a lil bitch. Child please.

[Ne 1]

No even as a Kobe fan...nobody could with those rosters in 07 and 09. Lebron averaged 38,8 and 8 and still lost in 09 that says it all.

Actually I do think there were some areas where LeBron could have stepped up in 2009, in particular his defense. His defense was pretty poor in the '09 series vs Orlando and practically exposed. I remember people were talking about how he was a DPOY candidate that year and he showed how he wasn't even close in that ECF. They assigned him to Rafer Alston and made him sag off of him and the thing is LeBron didn't make much of an impact on help defense. He didn't really bother Dwight though it was hard to do so because of how deep he was setting up, but I don't remember him pressuring the ball to take time off the clock. Kobe's help defense on Dwight in the Finals was a good bit better and often stripped him or forced a deflection.

He also wasn't that good in some of the fourth quarters like missing 5 free throws in game 3 and a whole bunch of turnovers in game 4 late in the game. Game 6 was also pretty weak, 2 points in the fourth.

It is true he didn't get much help vs Orlando although I don't think that his performance was as astonishing as some people consider it.

[Flash31]

The team record for the Cavs was deceiving
60 plus games won but it was LEBRON literally carrying the load,
those teams are like what the Bulls with Rose when they won 60,good defense,but only one star or player to worry about

same like with AIS sixers,You shut down Rose it was over,they were doing to Rose what people did to LeBron on the Cavs same with Iverson

And out of those 3 teams LeBron had by far the worst team.

It was literally a one man team with defenders like Roses and Ais was,
when you put up 38,8,8 and youre team still loses yeah thats a one man team there,where was the help,same with Rose nowhere,you see the Bulls now how they win games they go hard every game and win with defense but have horrible offense and their starters are playing nearly 40 min a game just to win in
the regular season,with no star or offensive ability to create on own its over

[WayOfWade]

Kobe won b2b with Gasoft, Odumb, No knees Bynum and Fisher the worst starting pg of all time as his best teammates, so YES..
Gasol was pretty dang good when the Lakers originally acquired him. And Odom won sixth man of the year just a year after the the repeat, and he too was pretty good during it. However, that was after the chips, and Bynum too only became good after as well, but he was critical during it despite being oft-injured. While Derek fisher does/did suck, he was critical in that OT road win in Orlando, and the game 3 victory in Boston. Without him, the Lakers might not have repeated. Kobe won with a good, not great cast.
Back to the thread topic however, I think Kobe might've been able to win with a Cavs roster in 09', only once he got to the finals, he might face a Kobe led Lakers with a better supporting cast, so Lakers Kobe might win out.

[tazb]

Bruh, Kobe had Caron Butler and Lamar Odom and they missed the playoffs. If he couldn't make the playoffs with those two talented players with makes you think he would've won the championship with all those scrubs in Cleveland? :roll:

Lamar Odom + Caron Butler >>>>>>>>>> any player on the Cavs other than LeBron.

[Shade8780]

The only guy I ever see winning with them is MJ.

[2010splash]

LMAO. LeBron couldn't win a title in Cleveland... how would Kobe have a chance? They'd probably have won around 50 games or so and lost in the first/second round usually. No way Kobe is literally single-handedly carrying Cleveland past a vastly superior and way more talented Detroit team in the conference finals on his way to the Finals.

[Michael_Wilbon]

No question. Prime Kobe absolutely would've won a championship with that Cleveland team. LeBron is great..and maybe he could do it now with that team, but at the time he didn't have it in him. He has Wade and Bosh now though so he doesn't have to fear failure anymore.

[dh144498]

No question. Prime Kobe absolutely would've won a championship with that Cleveland team. LeBron is great..and maybe he could do it now with that team, but at the time he didn't have it in him. He has Wade and Bosh now though so he doesn't have to fear failure anymore.

this.
/thread.

[tomkiddo91]

2007 Detroit Pistons (53-29)
2009 Atlanta Hawks (47-35)
2008 Washington Wizards (43-39)
2010 Chicago Bulls (41-41)
2007 Washington Wizards (41-41)
2007 New Jersey Nets (41-41)
2009 Detroit Pistons (39-43)

There isn't an all star in this league incapable of duplicating Lebron's "success" with the Cavs. Those teams dont even make the playoffs in the West.

Any superstar in league history when paired with a top defensive, top rebounding and top three point shooting supporting cast is capable of duplicating what Lebron accomplished given the competition with the Cavs. People with agendas love to make his teammates look worse than they are just to prop up LeBron. The team, especially in 2010 perfectly complimented his talents or any superstar wing for that matter.

Who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that game 5 vs Boston where he gave up on his team before the series was over. We'll never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit LeBron's game, strength and playing stye and the worst part about that whole debacle was that years Cavs team actually did have a legit shot at winning a championship. If the Cavs could have gotten past the East they would have had the eventual champion Lakers, who they swept during the regular season. They would have faced Orlando again that year but this time with Shaq who was their to slow down and cause problems for Dwight. The Cavs also had home court advantage for two straight 60+ win seasons and couldn't get to the Finals once and got bounced in the semis as a 1st seed. A team that is capable of winning 60+ wins two seasons in a row isn't capable of winning a title? I think not. I don't see how Lebron didn't have a " good enough team" when it was HIM who played poorly game 5 vs Boston and not his teammates. James was 3-14 in that game while looking absolutely lost on both sides of the court while a shell of himself Shaq was 7-11 and Parker was 5-8.

But anyway the point is James didn't compete to the best of his abilities. Look at the 2012 Heat. They were worse talent wise and health wise than the 2011 Heat and IMO faced a superior Finals opponent, and a better Conference Finals opponent. What was the difference? LeBron tried. In 2011, he gave up in the Finals and went into full Casper mode.


:facepalm

[HomieWeMajor]

Kobe was just statpadding circa 08-08. Cavs are a lottery team with him.

[bluechox2]

kobe has proven that he needs superstars to carry him or he wud threaten to force his way out...all well documented

[Xiao Yao You]

Kobe was just statpadding circa 08-08. Cavs are a lottery team with him.

Eastern conference they may have squeaked in.

[Xiao Yao You]

kobe has proven that he needs superstars to carry him or he wud threaten to force his way out...all well documented

He needs Phil even more!

[KobeMagic]

um, prime Kobe would lead that team to the best record in the NBA and win the finals against the Spurs. Lebron choked against them, something Kobe will never do, fail under the pressure.

[Xiao Yao You]

Kobe choked away a 4 peat against a vastly inferior team because of his selfish play.

[TheReal Kendall]

Mr. Kenneth:

I admit to not follow your terminology very well, but it is clear you know much more about this great game than I do.

Here in Mozambique, we have a single court where we play our own version of basketball. Like your game, we have a pole. Although instead of using a hoop, we tie someone to the pole, usually a thief or an adulterer. And instead of hoisting a ball into the hoop, we throw stones at the person until they are dead. So someone who can throw repeatedly with no moral concerns is most desired in our game. Since the games are so similar, I imagine this is true of your basketball as well.

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye




:roll: :applause: :bowdown:

[inclinerator]

kobe cant even will his team to the playoffs

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe choked away a 4 peat against a vastly inferior team because of his selfish play.


so kids these days think the lakers won in 2003 and were on the verge of a 4peat against the pistons? Or they think the 2003 spurs were an inferior team

:biggums:

[G-Funk]

Lebron was playing with 3 All-stars, one was a Hall of Famers in the East and choked up

[SamuraiSWISH]

For Kobe to win a chamionship, you need elite wing defenders that mask his taking plays off to conserve energy on defense.

And you need a skilled low post scorer / passer and rebounder to off set Kobe's gambles on shot selection offensively.

And you need coach who can manage his primadonna issues, and pull him back when he starts to go into KoMe mode and becomes overly self indulgent on offense.

[Himan12]

No. Lebron is a better player than kobe and if he couldnt do it, no reason to think kobe could.

[Psycho]

Yes, Kobe has the winner gene. Lebron doesn't. It's just that simple. Next question. :sleeping

[KobeClutchAsFK]

I don't think any superstar could have won a championship with those cavaliers rosters.

Not even MJ.

[red1]

if lebron couldnt do it then there is no chance that kobe could

[longtime lurker]

if lebron couldnt do it then there is no chance that kobe could

Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics

[lpublic_enemyl]

Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics
no he'd get blown out by 40 in the finals :roll:

[red1]

Kobe wouldn't just give up like Lebron did against the Celtics
I dont think he gave up at all. He had that bad game 5 but game 6 you could tell he was giving his best effort even though they lost. Celtics were just the better team since cleveland regressed defensively since they added shaq and antawn to the line-up.

[Xiao Yao You]

so kids these days think the lakers won in 2003 and were on the verge of a 4peat against the pistons? Or they think the 2003 spurs were an inferior team

:biggums:

Not sure what kids think. But Kobe's selfish play cost them another ring that much is certain.

[MisterAmazing]

in Cleveland?

he is clearly better than Lebron James in the "willpower" department. so i'm assuming he could've just "willed" that team to a championship.


kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009

and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team

prime kobe was alpha as f*CK

so to answer op... yes


http://gyazo.com/f9a135caac5c055beacd7549c7129831.png

[miller-time]

Yes, Kobe has the winner gene. Lebron doesn't. It's just that simple. Next question. :sleeping

So in the same year why couldn't he get out of the first round?

[DMAVS41]

I don't think any superstar could have won a championship with those cavaliers rosters.

Not even MJ.

Why?

You don't think prime MJ could have won that boston series in 08? I'm confused as to why people think this.

The Cavs had the ball down 1 with like 1 minute left in game 7 with a much inferior version of Lebron compared to what he is now...which is still significantly behind peak MJ.

I don't know if they beat the Lakers in the finals, but a prime MJ led 08 Cavs team would have beaten the Celtics and would have been my pick to win the title.

[Indian guy]

Why?

You don't think prime MJ could have won that boston series in 08? I'm confused as to why people think this.

The Cavs had the ball down 1 with like 1 minute left in game 7 with a much inferior version of Lebron compared to what he is now...which is still significantly behind peak MJ.

I don't know if they beat the Lakers in the finals, but a prime MJ led 08 Cavs team would have beaten the Celtics and would have been my pick to win the title.

That '08 Celtics, for whatever reason, couldn't play a decent road game to save their lives the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Remember, the 37-win Hawks took them to 7 games in the first round. Boston didn't get back to their 66-win regular season groove until the ECF, where they beat what was IMO the best Detroit team of the Wallace era, and then an even greater team in LA. Even if MJ would've led Cleveland past an unbelievably out-of-sync Boston team, there's no way he would've gotten past against far superiors teams in Detroit and LA. Not with this starting lineup:

Big Z
Ben Wallace
LeBron James
Wally Szcerbiak
Delonte West

Coach: Mike Brown

There's nothing close to resembling a star player here. MJ's the GOAT, but all of his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent, on top of being coached by the greatest. The '08 Cavaliers roster is a joke in comparison.

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season
LOL, wut?

1991, 1992, and 1993 Bulls? Ummm, no.

[DMAVS41]

That '08 Celtics, for whatever reason, couldn't play a decent road game to save their lives the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. Remember, the 37-win Hawks took them to 7 games in the first round. Boston didn't get back to their 66-win regular season groove until the ECF, where they beat what was IMO the best Detroit team of the Wallace era, and then an even greater team in LA. Even if MJ would've led Cleveland past an unbelievably out-of-sync Boston team, there's no way he would've gotten past against far superiors teams in Detroit and LA. Not with this starting lineup:

Big Z
Ben Wallace
LeBron James
Wally Szcerbiak
Delonte West

Coach: Mike Brown

There's nothing close to resembling a star player here. MJ's the GOAT, but his championships came on teams with Top 3 talent every season, on top of being coached by the greatest. The '08 Cavaliers roster is a joke in comparison.

I agree, but so what?

The fact remains that the sorry Cavs team with an inferior Lebron came literally within a couple plays of winning that series. Not to mention Lebron played like complete ass the first few games of the series.

Peak MJ gets that done. If we are living in a world where the difference between peak MJ and 08 Lebron isn't enough to get that series...then, well...comparing players is pointless.

You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL

[Indian guy]

You can't say they had no chance...when they almost won the damn series. LOL

Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

[guy]

Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

Teams get "out of wack". It happens, and not that rarely. There's no reason to assume Boston wouldn't be out of wack if it was Jordan instead of Lebron they were playing.

And Detroit was "out of wack" for like 3 straight ECF after their last Finals appearance. From 06-08, at some point in the ECF they just seemed to play like they didn't give a f*ck and wouldn't mind their season ending. They played with no passion, intensity, or sense of urgency. 04-05, completely different story. But 06-08, I think almost any team with a transcedent player beats them.

And the 08 Lakers weren't that great. Kobe isn't a great Finals performer, and that was everyone else's first Finals appearance.

I would say that would qualify as a chance.

And by the way, I don't think they would get past Boston either even though peak Jordan is considerably better then 08 Lebron. I think this is something that people don't like to accept, but sometimes great teams do play down to their competition and just don't have the same sense of urgency until its absolutely necessary. And this era's Celtics maybe more guilty of this then any team in history. But the fact that they have that mindset means Jordan would still have a legit shot, just like Lebron did.

We're just talking about 08 though. I think they'd have a much better chance in 2010 with a better Cavs team vs. a worse Celtics team.

[DMAVS41]

Uhh, yeah, they might have beaten an out-of-whack Boston team, sure, but there's nothing to indicate they would've beaten Detroit or LA after that. How does that qualify as a chance?

Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.

Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06...I see no reason to see why they wouldn't do it again in 08 with MJ.

Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics. WTF do you think he's going to do against peak MJ and a very good defensive team in the Cavs.

Certainly plausible....and certainly a chance.

[longtime lurker]

no he'd get blown out by 40 in the finals :roll:

Yes but he makes the finals :oldlol:


I dont think he gave up at all. He had that bad game 5 but game 6 you could tell he was giving his best effort even though they lost. Celtics were just the better team since cleveland regressed defensively since they added shaq and antawn to the line-up.

I was actually just doing some light trolling, but I remember elbow gate and Mo Williams was the only player still fighting in the end of game 6. I don't know if Kobe wins with this team but I think he'd would have made at least 1 finals. The East was laughably week

[Indian guy]

Because even an "out of whack" boston team was still better than the Pistons.

Huh? Detroit's performance during the entirety of the '08 playoffs was far superior to what Boston showed in the first 2 rounds. They actually had a winning record on the road coming into the ECF, as opposed to Boston being 0-6, an unfathomable number for a dominant 66-win team. I don't think you're contemplating just how awful Boston's road play was the first 2 rounds of the playoffs. They were completely out of whack on the offensive end of the court. Averaging a pathetic 86 ppg on 42% shooting in those 6 losses. They were playing like a non-playoff team outside the Garden prior to the ECF. That all changed once they did get there. To base how an MJ-led Cleveland team would've fared against Detroit or LA based on their performance against Boston is asinine.


Considering the Cavs with again...an inferior Lebron beat the Pistons in 06

Cleveland beat Detroit in 2007, which was an off season for them. Only 53 wins in a sorry EC, as opposed to 59 in 2008 in a far superior EC, not to mention posting almost twice the SRS. There's no comparison. Cleveland wouldn't have had a prayer against the '08 Pistons. Just a far superior team compared to their '07 selves.


Lakers would have been tough, but if Kobe struggled that much against the Celtics.

Huh? '08 Celtics are arguably the GOAT defense. Nothing an individual defender or an 11th-ranked Cleveland defense could've done that would compare. Mind you, given the offensive load MJ would'e been carrying on Cleveland, he wouldn't have checked Kobe much as it is.


Certainly plausible

On what? A competitive series against a team that totally underachieved? Cleveland's 2nd best player was a 33 year old Ilgauskas and they had a negative SRS as a team for the season for crying out loud. NEGATIVE!! They were the definition of mediocrity and a sure fire 15-win team without LeBron's herculean 30/8/7/48%/29 PER season. If something in MJ's career suggested he was capable of leading a mediocre squad all the way, then maybe we could entertain this. But MJ's championships came on terrific teams with the GOAT coach. He might have made(assuming Boston sucked again) it to the ECF, but that would've been the extent of it.

You're being a complete dumbass here. I'm done.

[TheChosenBron]

:biggums: :facepalm One championship? Are you kidding me? One of the greatest players to ever play the game settling with anything other than a ring?, he would have carried that scrub ass team to multiple championships.

[Akrazotile]

I diggity doubt it.

[SouBeachTalents]

No chance in hell :oldlol: Nobody's winning with those Cavs teams. LeBron averaged just shy of 40 ppg in the '09 ECF and they still lost in 6 games

[red1]

kobe won a title with top 90-100 all time ranked pau gasoft as his 2nd best player in 2009

and no other player on the team had ever made an allstar team

prime kobe was alpha as f*CK

so to answer op... yes
what has this retard been up to? would've loved to see how epic his meltdown would be :roll: