No one cares that the mavs have been eliminated from playoff contention?

[KB2009Champ]

The loss to the Suns at home last night was the nail in the coffin.

They are missing the playoffs for the first time in forever.

[JerryWest]

better luck next year? :confusedshrug:

[Beatlezz]

better luck next decade? :confusedshrug:

[JerryWest]

better luck next decade? :confusedshrug:
:roll:

[JerryWest]

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/06-16-kobe-bryant/8146113-1-eng-US/06-16-kobe-bryant_full_600.gif

[DaSeba5]

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/images/06-16-kobe-bryant/8146113-1-eng-US/06-16-kobe-bryant_full_600.gif

This is exactly what I did when I read the title

[SilkkTheShocker]

Im more interested in seeing what they do in the offseason. I don't think anyone was expecting much from them this season. Especially with Dirk not really being healthy.

[toooo]

The only one who cares is Lebron23.

[DMAVS41]

They were done after the loss to the Lakers.

They'll make the playoffs next year if Dirk is healthy (would have made it this year as well), but the franchise is just in a bad spot.

Only way to compete for a title is to bring in another superstar...and that is obviously really tough.

Sucks for Dirk that after 11...he might not get to play on another championship caliber team.

[9512]

How the pseudo mighty have fallen...

2 seasons ago they won their fluke title.

[francesco totti]

if dirk was healthy they would have made it to playoffs.
but they would be swept in round 1, they are very horrible side.And without dirk, i would probably put them between 25 - 30 power rankings in nba.

[SCdac]

Their team sucks. They haven't won a playoff game in like 2 years (swept out of the playoffs last season). People really think old Kaman and Brand would put this team in contention? Cuban missed the boat with Howard and also letting Chandler go. Darren Collison and OJ Mayo, as much as I respect their game, could end up being journey men. Dirk is old and needs a perfect team around him.

[MisterAmazing]

so are they not shaving til next season? :confusedshrug:

[thabisyo]

How the pseudo mighty have fallen...

2 seasons ago they won their fluke title.

This :rockon:

[DirkNowitzki41]

How the pseudo mighty have fallen...

2 seasons ago they won their fluke title.

fluke?

If Dirk was healthy and didnt miss half the season, they would easily be in the playoffs.

kinda sad when you think about it because of how bad the team was. also the most stacked team of all time in the lakers would already be out :confusedshrug:

[pegasus]

How the pseudo mighty have fallen...

2 seasons ago they won their fluke title.

Dirk had a legendary playoff run in 2011, and he and his team deserved every ounce of credit they received. Nothing you idiots say can take anything away from that.

[9512]

fluke?

If Dirk was healthy and didnt miss half the season, they would easily be in the playoffs.

kinda sad when you think about it because of how bad the team was. also the most stacked team of all time in the lakers would already be out :confusedshrug:

They would've lost in the 1st or 2nd round. They wouldn't win another title after 2011.

[9512]

Dirk had a legendary playoff run in 2011, and he and his team deserved every ounce of credit they received. Nothing you idiots say can take anything away from that.

Yes it was legendary.

But that was their one chance and their only chance. I didn't see them going back to back or 3 peat.

Dirk's getting older (not younger).

But hey at least they won one (1) title and not zero. So yea they get credit.

[Mr. Incredible]

Should of kept the championship team intact. Cuban messed up on that one.

[PieceOfFelt]

Tough season for the Mavs with the injury to Dirk.

- Felt

[Just2McFly]

Tough season for the Mavs with the injury to Dirk.

- Felt


Yeah I feel your pain felt.

[-p.tiddy-]

anyone who thinks their championship season was a fluke didn't watch them...


this isn't the NFL where one game means everything...in a 7 game series there are no flukes...the best team won

[Hoopz2332]

Dirk and the mavs are boring:biggums:

[-p.tiddy-]

12 straight years to the post season ended....I can barely even remember what this feels like

[Bandito]

That's what happens when you gamble and lose everything. Good job Cuban!

[retaxis]

12 straight years to the post season ended....I can barely even remember what this feels like
Hey at least they will catch more fish before the laker boat arrives

[BlackVVaves]

The real question is, why haven't Mavs fans or the media at large roasted Cuban at the stake yet?

Dude is 100% to blame for the Mavs horrid last two seasons. That team's main components could have remained for a few more seasons, and re-tooled around it. Losing Chandler and Barrea just to throw your hat in the witchhunt was stupid.

At least keep Chandler. I mean, he only was the verbal leader of that locker room :facepalm

[jzek]

Still can't believe anyone in their right mind would disband a team that just won a championship. Great job, Cuban! :clap:

[LikeABosh]

Everyone is more interested in watching the Lakers be eliminated from the playoffs.

[Lebron23]

Everyone is more interested in watching the Lakers be eliminated from the playoffs.


This

We only have 2 douchebags or annoying Mavericks fans. One is from Australia, and the other one is from Germany.

[LLK21]

Nope

[DirkNowitzki41]

They would've lost in the 1st or 2nd round. They wouldn't win another title after 2011.

You probably said the same thing before the 2011 playoffs. :oldlol:

I'm not saying they were a dynasty but you can't just assume that they would have lost that early... :wtf:

Still lol @ fluke championship. No championship is a fluke. Such disrespect

[Lebron23]

You probably said the same thing before the 2011 playoffs. :oldlol:

I'm not saying they were a dynasty but you can't just assume that they would have lost that early... :wtf:

Still lol @ fluke championship. No championship is a fluke. Such disrespect


This

[bigt]

The real question is, why haven't Mavs fans or the media at large roasted Cuban at the stake yet?

Dude is 100% to blame for the Mavs horrid last two seasons. That team's main components could have remained for a few more seasons, and re-tooled around it. Losing Chandler and Barrea just to throw your hat in the witchhunt was stupid.

At least keep Chandler. I mean, he only was the verbal leader of that locker room :facepalm

As much as I agree he shouldn't have broken up the championship team, I think the reason why people haven't roasted Cuban yet is because a) everyone knows he isn't just some by the numbers owner, he really cares about the team, and that he didn't break it up for any reason other than trying to one up himself. And b) the thought of a Deron/Dirk/Dwight big three, though unrealistic, is tantalising on paper. He also deserves credit for finally getting the right mix of people around Dirk.

And for the people claiming 2011 was a fluke, don't be stupid. A championship win isn't a fluke when one guy puts on one of the all time greatest playoff performances. 7 games series, you don't win a flukey championship under that structure

[Dbrog]

Well...I honestly can't say they should have made it. OJ Mayo was their best player for most of the year due to injuries...and that's not gonna get you very far.

[Scholar]

How the pseudo mighty have fallen...

2 seasons ago they won their fluke title.

Fluke? You call destroying the Western Conference and embarrassing everyone's pick for the NBA title a.k.a Miami Heat in the NBA Finals a fluke? :facepalm

Why don't you go ahead and just say, "Any year that my favorite player doesn't win, it's a fluke victory for everyone else."?

[NumberSix]

2004 Pistons were without a doubt a fluke championship.

[SevereUpInHere]

Yeah I feel your pain felt.

Would you say you felt his pain?

Shame not to have Dallas in the playoffs, love watching Dirk go off, next year I guess.

[-p.tiddy-]

The real question is, why haven't Mavs fans or the media at large roasted Cuban at the stake yet?

Dude is 100% to blame for the Mavs horrid last two seasons. That team's main components could have remained for a few more seasons, and re-tooled around it. Losing Chandler and Barrea just to throw your hat in the witchhunt was stupid.

At least keep Chandler. I mean, he only was the verbal leader of that locker room :facepalm
Cuban is also 100% responsible for the Mavs being a playoff team the past 12 years and winning a ring...

the Mavs would still be an afterthought of a team without him...

sure he made some bad moves, he is still the single best thing to ever happen to the Mavs franchise

[AlphaWolf24]

Cuban is also 100% responsible for the Mavs being a playoff team the past 12 years and winning a ring...

the Mavs would still be an afterthought of a team without him...

sure he made some bad moves, he is still the single best thing to ever happen to the Mavs franchise


and or Donny Nelson scouting Dirk.....telling his dad Dirk has the skills to be a super star in the NBA.( bet the house on him)

[coin24]

Not a fluke, but they were playing 5 on 4 due to bronzeys disappearing act in the finals :oldlol:

[Bandito]

2004 Pistons were without a doubt a fluke championship.
Just...don't come back anymore and die. Here is a shovel bury yourself and just disappear please.:roll:

[SCdac]

2004 Pistons were without a doubt a fluke championship.

You mean the team that made it to Game 7 of the NBA Finals the very next season??

That doesn't seem fluke-ish at all.

[TheBigVeto]

Stern is very happy about this. We all know he got heartburn when he had to hand the Mavs the championship trophy in 2011.

[creepingdeath]

Cubes is getting a lot of burn from the Mavs fanbase. And rightly so. Unfortunately, the next offseason doesn't bode very well for the Mavs, either. What a waste of Dirk's last couple of good years.

[DMAVS41]

Their team sucks. They haven't won a playoff game in like 2 years (swept out of the playoffs last season). People really think old Kaman and Brand would put this team in contention? Cuban missed the boat with Howard and also letting Chandler go. Darren Collison and OJ Mayo, as much as I respect their game, could end up being journey men. Dirk is old and needs a perfect team around him.

Perfect? No...just a good team with good players. No more or less than virtually any other player needs.

You are right that this team sucks, but this is what happens when you aren't the Lakers....your team gets old and you have to try and rebuild the best you can. The Mavs that won in 2011 were old...and overpaying for the likes of Barea and Chandler just never made sense...and still doesn't...if your goal is to win the title.

Cuban had to try what he did...we just failed unfortunately. As fans we'd rather watch a 5 seed Mavs team with Dirk, Chandler, Kidd, and Terry...etc. But they aren't winning it. So I totally back what Cuban did.

The reason the Mavs missed the playoffs this year is because Dirk wasn't right for essentially half the season.

So as a fan it sucks not being able to see them in the playoffs, but all it would be is another 4 or 5 game series against a much better team...just like last year.

Dirk doesn't need a perfect team around him. He needs a good team. With another great player...just like everyone else.

[SpecialQue]

Im more interested in seeing what they do in the offseason. I don't think anyone was expecting much from them this season. Especially with Dirk not really being healthy.

They will sign Dwight and CP3. Dwight hates LA and Blake and DJ are running CP3 out of LA.

[SCdac]

Perfect? No...just a good team with good players. No more or less than virtually any other player needs.

You are right that this team sucks, but this is what happens when you aren't the Lakers....your team gets old and you have to try and rebuild the best you can. The Mavs that won in 2011 were old...and overpaying for the likes of Barea and Chandler just never made sense...and still doesn't...if your goal is to win the title.

Cuban had to try what he did...we just failed unfortunately. As fans we'd rather watch a 5 seed Mavs team with Dirk, Chandler, Kidd, and Terry...etc. But they aren't winning it. So I totally back what Cuban did.

The reason the Mavs missed the playoffs this year is because Dirk wasn't right for essentially half the season.

So as a fan it sucks not being able to see them in the playoffs, but all it would be is another 4 or 5 game series against a much better team...just like last year.

Dirk doesn't need a perfect team around him. He needs a good team. With another great player...just like everyone else.

Look, I understand not wanting to be a "middle of the pack" team, but at Dirk's age, the Mavs will have to basically be perfect to go all the way. There's a reason the main target has been a tandem of D-Will/Howard... because that's what it would take to be Finals-relevant.

In terms of FA spending, there should be a middle ground. Not all or nothing.

It's not that the Cuban didn't want to keep Chandler (and the others)... It's that he was forcing them to accept 1-year deals... forcing them to accept the idea that "there will be better players than you available next season", which is not good business.

Considering Chandler's impact and age, that's a slap in the face... (and I know what you're going to say, the Mavs "didn't win with defense, and remained just as good defensively the next season without Tyson", which is bogus and naive.)... Chandler (in particular) deserved a multi year deal, and as a team that finally found a winning formula

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=SCdac]Look, I understand not wanting to be a "middle of the pack" team, but at Dirk's age, the Mavs will have to basically be perfect to go all the way. There's a reason the main target has been a tandem of D-Will/Howard... because that's what it would take to be Finals-relevant.

In terms of FA spending, there should be a middle ground. Not all or nothing.

It's not that the Cuban didn't want to keep Chandler (and the others)... It's that he was forcing them to accept 1-year deals... forcing them to accept the idea that "there will be better players than you available next season", which is not good business.

Considering Chandler's impact and age, that's a slap in the face... (and I know what you're going to say, the Mavs "didn't win with defense, and remained just as good defensively the next season without Tyson", which is bogus and naive.)... Chandler (in particular) deserved a multi year deal, and as a team that finally found a winning formula

[SCdac]

The 2011 team are not cast offs and misfits... I'm not going to get in a long debate explaining why... That team was deep with playoff-experienced players, a guy who won DPOY the next season, a starting center coming off the bench, and a PG who had been to back-to-back Finals and was once a hair away from winning and MVP. They had scrappy defenders who even Dirk recognized their intangible value... That team was perfectly designed around Dirk, in large part due to depth (acquiring Peja midseason was the cherry on top). It's that depth I don't think the Mavs can replicate again, but they'd have to compensate with "star players" ala D-will/Dwight. Meaning, there's different kinds of "perfect", but that's ultimately what it would take for Dirk at his current age.

[DMAVS41]

The 2011 team are not cast offs and misfits... I'm not going to get in a long debate explaining why... That team was deep with playoff-experienced players, a guy who won DPOY the next season, a starting center coming off the bench, and a PG who had been to back-to-back Finals and was once a hair away from winning and MVP. They had scrappy defenders who even Dirk recognized their intangible value... That team was perfectly designed around Dirk, in large part due to depth (acquiring Peja midseason was the cherry on top). It's that depth I don't think the Mavs can replicate again, but they'd have to compensate with "star players" ala D-will/Dwight. Meaning, there's different kinds of "perfect", but that's ultimately what it would take for Dirk at his current age.

They were cast offs...that is just a fact. Nobody wanted guys like Marion and Chandler and Stevenson and Peja...LOL

But fine...we won't debate that.

You just made my point for me. If they can't win that way again...why bring all of those players back? Especially when said players are getting older? It makes no sense.

Again, the only player even worth thinking about bringing back was Chandler. And at 14 plus million a year with his history of injuries...it's hardly a no brainer. Why pay a guy like Barea 4.5 million a year when a guy like Nate Robinson can be had on a shorter deal for 1.4 million a year? LOL...it's just bad business.

So please explain to me why the Mavs should have brought back the guys when you just got done saying you don't give them a chance to win.

You are right...and are just saying what I've been saying. Dirk finally needs the help of a reliable 2nd star or 1st star player. Maybe 2 like seemingly every other title team has other than the Spurs...and we've seen how that has worked out since 07 for them.

[SCdac]

Because bringing back key players of a proven model, while using cap space, is less of a risk than waiting around for marquee players to join the team. I never said 2011 roster had no chance to repeat, I think they could have gotten out of the first and second round at least. Like most championship teams, i would see them as the favorites untill proven otherwise. Its this current team that obviously sucks.

[DMV2]

They were cast offs...that is just a fact. Nobody wanted guys like Marion and Chandler and Stevenson and Peja...LOL

But fine...we won't debate that.
Only replying to this part because I want put in my agreement with that statement.

Marion was considered "washed up" before to going Dallas. Remember the Matrix in a Heat and Raptors uniform? Not really, huh? I thought so, that's because he was going through his career low's period.

Chandler in Chicago, Charlotte was borderline starter material. In New Orleans he was OK. But one year in Dallas, his name was no longer associated with Eddy Curry. Chandler now more known for being a defensive impact player.

No need to comment on DeShawn.

Peja....remember he was traded from New Orleans to Toronto and after playing 2 games he went out with an injury for 2 months but people were questioning if his injury was real or that he didn't want to play for the Raptors? I don't know the real details but eventually Toronto released him.

And Kidd became a facilitating PG who was shooting 3's 3/4th of his shots.

Butler missed the entire second half of the season.

So yeah, DMAVS is right about them being outcasts, misfits whatever you call them. They were former stars in their twilight years, injury-prone players, etc . They just happened to click well together for one season, a championship season.

[DMAVS41]

Because bringing back key players of a proven model, while using cap space, is less of a risk than waiting around for marquee players to join the team. I never said 2011 roster had no chance to repeat, I think they could have gotten out of the first and second round at least. Like most championship teams, i would see them as the favorites untill proven otherwise. Its this current team that obviously sucks.

You just got done saying Dirk needs superstar help to win. Now he can win with aging players that were huge underdogs the year before...against superior competition?

I'm so confused as to your point. Honestly.

[stephanieg]

this isn't the NFL where one game means everything...in a 7 game series there are no flukes...the best team won

The chance of an inferior team winning in a 7 game series is pretty good. Even against the entire league the best teams tend to only win something like 65-75% of their games. Much worse against better teams.

[Droid101]

so are they not shaving til next season? :confusedshrug:
Nah they should finish 42-40 by my calculations.

[SCdac]

You just got done saying Dirk needs superstar help to win. Now he can win with aging players that were huge underdogs the year before...against superior competition?

I'm so confused as to your point. Honestly.

First off, the Mavs were the superior team in 2011. You talk about them as if they didn't prove themselves to be the best, or as if only Dirk was the champion on that team. That was a chamionship team, but you make it seem like they got lucky basically and would have to be even luckier in 2012. Secondly, do you not understand my point about compensating for lack of depth with stars and Dirk being older now (hence needing more and more help as he ages).

I think you're confusing yourself

[jzek]

Chandler, Barea, and Stevenson were all PERFECT fit for the Mavs and Cuban didn't want to pay them. Now, he has his bank open but nobody wants to join his team. Should have spent all that money keeping your championship team!

LOL.

[DMAVS41]

First off, the Mavs were the superior team in 2011. You talk about them as if they didn't prove themselves to be the best, or as if only Dirk was the champion on that team. That was a chamionship team, but you make it seem like they got lucky basically and would have to be even luckier in 2012. Secondly, do you not understand my point about compensating for lack of depth with stars and Dirk being older now (hence needing more and more help as he ages).

I think you're confusing yourself

No sir, you are confused.

You can't get stars if you brought back the championship team. Are you really this dense? Terry, Kidd, Barea, and Chandler all wanted multi year deals.

Lucky? No, you don't win a NBA title off luck. Likely to repeat? Hell no.

Dirk would have been capable of playing great in the playoffs the next year, but the likes of a guy like Terry doing what he did again is very slim. That was a complete aberration from Terry.

Of course there is always a chance, but a year older for an already old team against better competition is tough to do. It's why the Spurs never repeated..even when all the players were in their primes. They never had an amount of overwhelming talent needed to do so.

So lets make this clear. If they brought back the title team...there are no superstars to get now. You would have been stuck with an aging team with very little chance to win...even if healthy.

Do you not understand?

[DirkNowitzki41]

Chandler, Barea, and Stevenson were all PERFECT fit for the Mavs and Cuban didn't want to pay them. Now, he has his bank open but nobody wants to join his team. Should have spent all that money keeping your championship team!

LOL.

This.

Im confused as to why Cuban didnt atleast keep players like stevenson, or brewer at the very least. They are both very cheap and serviceable players.

cant help my self but to be pissed at that.

[DMAVS41]

This.

Im confused as to why Cuban didnt atleast keep players like stevenson, or brewer at the very least. They are both very cheap and serviceable players.

cant help my self but to be pissed at that.

I really wished we had kept Brewer as well. Still confused as to why we didn't.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dirk just isn't that good. He always has so much talent, including this season. That 2011 ring was a complete fluke. They haven't even sniffed that glory since they lost Tyson Chandler. Coincidence? 'Fraid not. We all know Miami lost that series, Dallas didn't win it.

[Graviton]

Dirk just isn't that good. He always has so much talent, including this season. That 2011 ring was a complete fluke. They haven't even sniffed that glory since they lost Tyson Chandler. Coincidence? 'Fraid not. We all know Miami lost that series, Dallas didn't win it.
The 2011 team was one of the worst teams to win a championship in terms of actual talent.

Bunch of one dimensional defensive role players, older veterans in the twilight of their career and some bench players no one ever heard of. :oldlol:

Yet Dirk carried that team like a boss and won them a championship through clutch play in many 4th quarters.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk just isn't that good. He always has so much talent, including this season. That 2011 ring was a complete fluke. They haven't even sniffed that glory since they lost Tyson Chandler. Coincidence? 'Fraid not. We all know Miami lost that series, Dallas didn't win it.

:roll: :facepalm :wtf: :coleman: :biggums: :rant :banghead: :hammerhead:

[Graviton]

:roll: :facepalm :wtf: :coleman: :biggums: :rant :banghead: :hammerhead:
Just look at their amazing talent in the backcourt or front court...

Fisher
Mike James
Darren Collison
Ancient Vince Carter
OJ Mayo
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

Kaman
Ancient Elton Brand
Ancient Marion
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

DAT TALENT! :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

Just look at their amazing talent in the backcourt or front court...

Fisher
Mike James
Darren Collison
Ancient Vince Carter
OJ Mayo
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

Kaman
Ancient Elton Brand
Ancient Marion
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

DAT TALENT! :bowdown:


I know.

But my favorite thing is that it has now become just this no brainer to pay Chandler 14.5 million for 4 years. Chandler is awesome...a really good player, but people need to stop.

What did Chandler do last year in the playoffs on the Knicks?

6/9/1 on 44% fg 60% ft

So please tap the breaks on the...Chandler was the reason the Mavs won argument.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Dirk couldn't drag this team to the playoffs on his shoulders. He couldn't even get to the conference finals in 2012. Fluke champion. One hit wonder.

[DMV2]

Just look at their amazing talent in the backcourt or front court...

Fisher
Mike James
Darren Collison
Ancient Vince Carter
OJ Mayo
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

Kaman
Ancient Elton Brand
Ancient Marion
Some scrubs nobody ever heard of

DAT TALENT! :bowdown:
Besides Dirk, Mayo(serves better as a 6th man) and Marion....nobody on the Mavs deserve to be starters on a playoff team. Collison is more of a 2-system/part-time starting PG.

It's actually surprising that they might get 41 wins and break the .500 for the season.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Dirk just isn't that good. He always has so much talent, including this season. That 2011 ring was a complete fluke. They haven't even sniffed that glory since they lost Tyson Chandler. Coincidence? 'Fraid not. We all know Miami lost that series, Dallas didn't win it.

Man. You're really dumb. :oldlol:

Ever thought that maybe he had awful teams these past 2 seasons while being injured?

Im gonna stop here actually, no need to waste my time. too stupid

[Graviton]

I know.

But my favorite thing is that it has now become just this no brainer to pay Chandler 14.5 million for 4 years. Chandler is awesome...a really good player, but people need to stop.

What did Chandler do last year in the playoffs on the Knicks?

6/9/1 on 44% fg 60% ft

So please tap the breaks on the...Chandler was the reason the Mavs won argument.
Now you need to take that logic and apply it to the Bulls, because Deng/Boozer/Hamilton and whoever isn't half as good as you make them seem. They all disappear in the playoffs and completely drop their level of play, while "playing hard" in regular season works for them, in the playoffs everyone plays hard and their only advantage is lost, their defense isn't good enough to win because you actually have to score as well.

Only Rose, Noah and Butler are championship caliber pieces, rest can be traded for similar talent. Bulls problem is having old overpayed players that never show up, too many defensive role players that can't be relied on to make a shot when team needs it.

When they let go of Korver and Asik, they lost their chance at a championship. Injury prone and one dimensional Boozer/Deng/Bellineli/Robinson/Hinrich along with Rose/Noah/Butler is nowhere near enough to beat the Heat in a playoff series. You have 1 legit allstar and 1 near allstar vs 2 superstars and 1 legit allstar plus high caliber bench players in Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Haslem, Miller and 3 point shooters/defensive role players out the ass.

Bulls only have defensive role players and no respectable shooters and scorers that need to be honored, Heat defense will just concentrate on Rose and dare everyone else to beat them, just like in 2011.

[DMAVS41]

Now you need to take that logic and apply it to the Bulls, because Deng/Boozer/Hamilton and whoever isn't half as good as you make them seem. They all disappear in the playoffs and completely drop their level of play, while "playing hard" in regular season works for them, in the playoffs everyone plays hard and their only advantage is lost, their defense isn't good enough to win because you actually have to score as well.

Only Rose, Noah and Butler are championship caliber pieces, rest can be traded for similar talent. Bulls problem is having old overpayed players that never show up, too many defensive role players that can't be relied on to make a shot when team needs it.

When they let go of Korver and Asik, they lost their chance at a championship. Injury prone and one dimensional Boozer/Deng/Bellineli/Robinson/Hinrich along with Rose/Noah/Butler is nowhere near enough to beat the Heat in a playoff series. You have 1 legit allstar and 1 near allstar vs 2 superstars and 1 legit allstar plus high caliber bench players in Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Haslem, Miller and 3 point shooters/defensive role players out the ass.

Bulls only have defensive role players and no respectable shooters and scorers that need to be honored, Heat defense will just concentrate on Rose and dare everyone else to beat them, just like in 2011.

Nah man. The Bulls are just good. Not Thunder or Heat good...but as good as any other team on paper if Rose was healthy.

If anything, it's rose that has underperformed in the playoffs...although Boozer has as well.

You can't lead a team to a title taking 24 shots a game and shooting under 40% like Rose did in 11. Not going to happen.

If they had lost in 11 with Rose shooting 45% from the field and something around 55% TS...then you would have a point. But 39% from the field just isn't good enough.

[SCdac]

You can't get stars if you brought back the championship team.

Because they'd have a championship-level team still and wouldn't need stars. I don't get it. We disagree on their chances pretty much and the right route to winning a championship. I'm not saying they win it 100% (many of the best teams and players haven't repeated) but I prefer trying for it with a solid foundation over relying on young big names a year or two later to sign in Dallas, Texas, alongside an aging Dirk (I can see why he needs them, but I don't see why they need him or the Mavs). Citing the Spurs is ironic, they signed Bruce Bowen multiple times

[DMAVS41]

[QUOTE=SCdac]Because they'd have a championship-level team still and wouldn't need stars. I don't get it. We disagree on their chances pretty much and the right route to winning a championship. I'm not saying they win it 100% (many of the best teams and players haven't repeated) but I prefer trying for it with a solid foundation over relying on young big names a year or two later to sign in Dallas, Texas, alongside an aging Dirk (I can see why he needs them, but I don't see why they need him or the Mavs). Citing the Spurs is ironic, they signed Bruce Bowen multiple times

[Graviton]

Nah man. The Bulls are just good. Not Thunder or Heat good...but as good as any other team on paper if Rose was healthy.

If anything, it's rose that has underperformed in the playoffs...although Boozer has as well.

You can't lead a team to a title taking 24 shots a game and shooting under 40% like Rose did in 11. Not going to happen.

If they had lost in 11 with Rose shooting 45% from the field and something around 55% TS...then you would have a point. But 39% from the field just isn't good enough.

Rose faced 3 defensive teams in a row in 2011 as the 1 all-star, shooting well against them as the only real scoring option on your team wasn't gonna happen. Size matters, and the smaller you are the worse your FG% will be. Rose still averaged 27/7.7 on 23.5 shots a game, why exactly are you ripping his FG% when his points per possesion were still good and he was technically"efficient". He still got them to ECF while without him they were a 1st round exit, how exactly is the team that good?

In this age of super teams, Bulls won't be making any noise, especially not with that cheap FO that lets quality role players walk while overpaying for garbage and cutting salary. :oldlol:

[creepingdeath]

It was a smart decision by Cuban not the re-sign the likes of Terry, Barea or Stevenson. Those guys wanted a huge paycheck, and they're not worth that. Brewer was really affordable but was traded away for a pick so that his guaranteed contract would be off the books. Kidd just flat out f*cked us over and lied to Cuban. Chandler, however, should have been resigned, there's no excuse for that. Even if some big fish had decided to sign with us, we could have used Tyson as a bargain chip in some kind of trade.

[DMAVS41]

Rose faced 3 defensive teams in a row in 2011 as the 1 all-star, shooting well against them as the only real scoring option on your team wasn't gonna happen. Size matters, and the smaller you are the worse your FG% will be. Rose still averaged 27/7.7 on 23.5 shots a game, why exactly are you ripping his FG% when his points per possesion were still good and he was technically"efficient". He still got them to ECF while without him they were a 1st round exit, how exactly is the team that good?

In this age of super teams, Bulls won't be making any noise, especially not with that cheap FO that lets quality role players walk while overpaying for garbage and cutting salary. :oldlol:

Because he wasn't efficient. sub 50% TS is simply not efficient at all and not good enough to lead a team to the title.

Even with Rose's horrid play in the ECF...the Bulls were in every game and had chances in crunch time...where Rose managed to play even worse.

Again. I've repeatedly said they aren't as good as the Thunder or Heat, but there is no other team in the league on paper that is really any better. Certainly not any team in the East.

So being the 2nd best team in your conference means you won't be making any noise? Come on now...

And how on earth is Deng not worthy of being mentioned as a player more than capable of playing a key role on title team given his versatility on both ends of the floor. He's a perfect fit next to Rose. So is Noah....and Butler is going to be awesome imo.

[Graviton]

Because he wasn't efficient. sub 50% TS is simply not efficient at all and not good enough to lead a team to the title.

Even with Rose's horrid play in the ECF...the Bulls were in every game and had chances in crunch time...where Rose managed to play even worse.

Again. I've repeatedly said they aren't as good as the Thunder or Heat, but there is no other team in the league on paper that is really any better. Certainly not any team in the East.

So being the 2nd best team in your conference means you won't be making any noise? Come on now...

And how on earth is Deng not worthy of being mentioned as a player more than capable of playing a key role on title team given his versatility on both ends of the floor. He's a perfect fit next to Rose. So is Noah....and Butler is going to be awesome imo.

Because Deng shoots 33% outside the paint and is one of the players Heat don't give a shit about to guard on the 3pt line. His defens is also overrated, especially against Lebron who he has no freaking idea how to guard effectively and allows him to get into a rhythm and destroy his soul. Lebron has his best games when Deng is on him.

Deng also gets payed 13 million along with Boozer's 13 million, Westbrook gets close to same money as them. :oldlol: There are lot of SFs/PFs on the market that have more impact/production on the court for less money. You won't be building a championship team with those guys killing cap space. ESPECIALLY not when Bosh and Lebron completely rape Boozer/Deng in the playoffs, those are the easiest matchups for them in the whole East.

I don't know how many Bulls games you watched, but I have seen 80% of them past 3 years. Deng is not a championship caliber player, he vanishes in the playoffs along with Boozer and Butler is already on his way to being a better option at the 3.

To me only Rose, Noah, Butler, Hinrich and Gibson are the real pieces, rest can be replaced.

[DMAVS41]

Because Deng shoots 33% outside the paint and is one of the players Heat don't give a shit about to guard on the 3pt line. His defens is also overrated, especially against Lebron who he has no freaking idea how to guard effectively and allows him to get into a rhythm and destroy his soul. Lebron has his best games when Deng is on him.

Deng also gets payed 13 million along with Boozer's 13 million, Westbrook gets close to same money as them. :oldlol: There are lot of SFs/PFs on the market that have more impact/production on the court for less money. You won't be building a championship team with those guys killing cap space. ESPECIALLY not when Bosh and Lebron completely rape Boozer/Deng in the playoffs, those are the easiest matchups for them in the whole East.

I don't know how many Bulls games you watched, but I have seen 80% of them past 3 years. Deng is not a championship caliber player, he vanishes in the playoffs along with Boozer and Butler is already on his way to being a better option at the 3.

To me only Rose, Noah, Butler, Hinrich and Gibson are the real pieces, rest can be replaced.

You are changing the argument a bit, but let me address the Deng thing first.

Deng shot 32% from 3 and 43% overall in 11 in the playoffs.
Deng shot 36% from 3 and 46% overall in 12 in the playoffs.

No, he's not a sharp shooter from range, but you also can't just leave him open. Whether or not he's over-rated on defense doesn't matter...either way...he's still a very good defender. He's still a player that doesn't need the ball in his hands to have a positive impact on the game (which is needed with Rose)

Now, would some of the money you are paying Deng and Boozer be better spent elsewhere? You bet. Boozer isn't worth what you are paying him...and with the emergence of Butler, Deng will become more replaceable.

But this year, right now, what we are talking about...the Bulls would have a chance to win it all with a healthy Rose...if Rose is an elite top 5 player like all his fans claim.

While Boozer isn't worth his contract...he's still a solid player...and he's always been a very good rebounder.

This current Bulls team is deep. Plays great defense and is great on the glass. They have versatile players and a true spark plug off the bench in Robinson. They also have solid veteran players from top to bottom in Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hamilton, and Hincrich.

Would they be favorites? Of course not, but aside from being the 2nd best team in the East on paper with Rose, they also match up well against the Heat.

[Graviton]

You are changing the argument a bit, but let me address the Deng thing first.

Deng shot 32% from 3 and 43% overall in 11 in the playoffs.
Deng shot 36% from 3 and 46% overall in 12 in the playoffs.

No, he's not a sharp shooter from range, but you also can't just leave him open. Whether or not he's over-rated on defense doesn't matter...either way...he's still a very good defender. He's still a player that doesn't need the ball in his hands to have a positive impact on the game (which is needed with Rose)

Now, would some of the money you are paying Deng and Boozer be better spent elsewhere? You bet. Boozer isn't worth what you are paying him...and with the emergence of Butler, Deng will become more replaceable.

But this year, right now, what we are talking about...the Bulls would have a chance to win it all with a healthy Rose...if Rose is an elite top 5 player like all his fans claim.

While Boozer isn't worth his contract...he's still a solid player...and he's always been a very good rebounder.

This current Bulls team is deep. Plays great defense and is great on the glass. They have versatile players and a true spark plug off the bench in Robinson. They also have solid veteran players from top to bottom in Deng, Boozer, Noah, Hamilton, and Hincrich.

Would they be favorites? Of course not, but aside from being the 2nd best team in the East on paper with Rose, they also match up well against the Heat.

Like I said before, all that "depth" and defense is irrelevant when you can't score against an elite defense, the team even with Rose has no chance against Heat.

Hamilton is injury prone and washed up, he won't make an impact. Robinson you don't know what you might get, lets see how he performs in the playoffs before you asign him a legit spark plug. Boozer makes up for his rebounding by playing horrible defense, turning the ball over and bricking his retarded fadeaways. Deng as I said is the easiest matchup against Lebron and pretty useless. Hinrich is solid when his shot is falling, not so much when he only provides the defense. Noah is great, Rose we don't know how he will come back. Butler is solid.

So you have 1 washed up nobody, 2 question marks, 1 statue, 3 "kinda good" role players, 1 all star question mark, 1 all star big man that has no offensive game. And that's enough to contend vs the Heat? :oldlol:

Let me do this the easy way...

Ray Allen>Anyone Bulls have in the backcourt
(Shane Battier=Butler)>Deng/Bellineli
Hinrich>Norris Cole/Chalmers>Robinson
Bosh>Boozer/Gibson
Wade>Any Bulls player
Lebron>Any Bulls player
Rashard Lewis, Haslem, Birdman>Any Bulls forwards on the bench besides Butler
Miller/James Jones>whoever is left+Hamilton/Bellineli

Heat are basically Bulls on steroids, just lacking in rebounding but making it up with quickness and 3pt shooting instead.

Only advantage Bulls have is at C and PG, but Heat completely destroy them at the 3 other positiong with actual all-stars that can score on top of 3 point shooters out the ass, better bench players and an underrated coach that can actually outcoach Thibs.

How exactly can Bulls contend with the Heat? Some pointless regular season games they win on sheer effort and tough play won't win them a series against Heat on their own home floor with them focused and engaged fully.

[DMAVS41]

Like I said before, all that "depth" and defense is irrelevant when you can't score against an elite defense, the team even with Rose has no chance against Heat.

Hamilton is injury prone and washed up, he won't make an impact. Robinson you don't know what you might get, lets see how he performs in the playoffs before you asign him a legit spark plug. Boozer makes up for his rebounding by playing horrible defense, turning the ball over and bricking his retarded fadeaways. Deng as I said is the easiest matchup against Lebron and pretty useless. Hinrich is solid when his shot is falling, not so much when he only provides the defense. Noah is great, Rose we don't know how he will come back. Butler is solid.

So you have 1 washed up nobody, 2 question marks, 1 statue, 3 "kinda good" role players, 1 all star question mark, 1 all star big man that has no offensive game. And that's enough to contend vs the Heat? :oldlol:

Let me do this the easy way...

Ray Allen>Anyone Bulls have in the backcourt
(Shane Battier=Butler)>Deng/Bellineli
Hinrich>Norris Cole/Chalmers>Robinson
Bosh>Boozer/Gibson
Wade>Any Bulls player
Lebron>Any Bulls player
Rashard Lewis, Haslem, Birdman>Any Bulls forwards on the bench besides Butler
Miller/James Jones>whoever is left+Hamilton/Bellineli

Heat are basically Bulls on steroids, just lacking in rebounding but making it up with quickness and 3pt shooting instead.

Only advantage Bulls have is at C and PG, but Heat completely destroy them at the 3 other positiong with actual all-stars that can score on top of 3 point shooters out the ass, better bench players and an underrated coach that can actually outcoach Thibs.

How exactly can Bulls contend with the Heat? Some pointless regular season games they win on sheer effort and tough play won't win them a series against Heat on their own home floor with them focused and engaged fully.

We both agree that beating the Heat is not likely.

Here is where we disagree. You make the claim..."The Bulls have no chance against the Heat"

How is that a fair statement given the 2011 ECF? When we saw the Bulls absolutely have a chance to win every single game going into the last 5 minutes.

How can you say that...when we just saw the Bulls, without Rose, beat the Heat in what was clearly more than a random regular season game.

This is my problem with Rose fans. They expect Rose to be able to lead a team to the title while shooting sub 40% and cracking under the late game pressure both on the floor and on the free throw line.

I don't care what kind of team you have...an elite offensive player like Rose should not be shooting sub 40%...and if he does...his team isn't winning.

It is absolutely not too much to ask of a top 5 player in the league (according to Rose fans) for him to be somewhere close to 45% from the field and 54 to 55 percent TS

Nobody would ever hate on Rose just because the Bulls lose...it's about how he played. That is what is lost in all of this...you could come up with excuses for every player ever that plays poorly.

Dirk in 07, Kobe in 04, Lebron in 11...the truth is that they just needed to play better...and if they had...their teams might have won. That is what makes you a star...that you are going to go out and be great no matter what team you are on.

And again...it's not like you can just leave these guys all wide open.

[Graviton]

We both agree that beating the Heat is not likely.

Here is where we disagree. You make the claim..."The Bulls have no chance against the Heat"

How is that a fair statement given the 2011 ECF? When we saw the Bulls absolutely have a chance to win every single game going into the last 5 minutes.

How can you say that...when we just saw the Bulls, without Rose, beat the Heat in what was clearly more than a random regular season game.

This is my problem with Rose fans. They expect Rose to be able to lead a team to the title while shooting sub 40% and cracking under the late game pressure both on the floor and on the free throw line.

I don't care what kind of team you have...an elite offensive player like Rose should not be shooting sub 40%...and if he does...his team isn't winning.

It is absolutely not too much to ask of a top 5 player in the league (according to Rose fans) for him to be somewhere close to 45% from the field and 54 to 55 percent TS

Nobody would ever hate on Rose just because the Bulls lose...it's about how he played. That is what is lost in all of this...you could come up with excuses for every player ever that plays poorly.

Dirk in 07, Kobe in 04, Lebron in 11...the truth is that they just needed to play better...and if they had...their teams might have won. That is what makes you a star...that you are going to go out and be great no matter what team you are on.

And again...it's not like you can just leave these guys all wide open.

Jesus what does 2011 have to do with now? Bulls are worse and Heat are miles better than in 2011.

Rose is worse probably til he gets in game shape
Boozer is worse
Deng is worse
Noah keeps getting injured but is better
We lost Korver, Asik, Watson
Gibson/Hamilton keep getting injured
We got Butler thank God
Robinson is inconsistent

So based on whatever happened in 2011 you expect Bulls to perform as well vs the Heat in the playoff with a healthy roster? Based on what? Some pointless regular season games when refs allowed physical play and Heat weren't playing to their full potential? They have NO chance to beat the Heat 4 times, how close their games were in 2011 is completely irrelevant.

Heat are much better from top to bottom, Lebron is even scarier. While Bulls are worse and Rose is a total question mark. Your hypothetical scenario is based on the premise that Rose is a Top 5 player and hence he should be able to perform slightly better and win vs a team with more talent, more depth, two Top 20 players of ALL TIME and just as good coaching.

Like I keep saying, they have no chance, I don't give a shit about some pointless regular season wins they get vs half assing Heat.

[DMAVS41]

Jesus what does 2011 have to do with now? Bulls are worse and Heat are miles better than in 2011.

Rose is worse probably til he gets in game shape
Boozer is worse
Deng is worse
Noah keeps getting injured but is better
We lost Korver, Asik, Watson
Gibson/Hamilton keep getting injured
We got Butler thank God
Robinson is inconsistent

So based on whatever happened in 2011 you expect Bulls to perform as well vs the Heat in the playoff with a healthy roster? Based on what? Some pointless regular season games when refs allowed physical play and Heat weren't playing to their full potential? They have NO chance to beat the Heat 4 times, how close their games were in 2011 is completely irrelevant.

Heat are much better from top to bottom, Lebron is even scarier. While Bulls are worse and Rose is a total question mark. Your hypothetical scenario is based on the premise that Rose is a Top 5 player and hence he should be able to perform slightly better and win vs a team with more talent, more depth, two Top 20 players of ALL TIME and just as good coaching.

Like I keep saying, they have no chance, I don't give a shit about some pointless regular season wins they get vs half assing Heat.


Well, I don't think they are worse now. And I'm saying this assuming they are healthy. Noah should be back healthy by the playoffs from the reports I've read...and the rest of the team seems to be pretty healthy.

I'm assuming a normal Rose.

There is a difference between "no chance" and "not likely"

11 is referenced because it's a lot of the same players and was a tightly fought series.

But we can throw that out if you want. The Bulls style of play gives a team like the Heat fits.

You can write off the recent game as meaningless, but we all know it meant a lot to both teams.

I mean...do you even pay attention to what the Bulls are doing. Did you watch the game tonight? They are a really good team even without Rose. I guess I rate Rose higher than you...which is rare talking to a Rose fan. You guys seem to think he's elite.

All I know is that if Westbrook or Paul was on the Bulls right now...I would not think they had absolutely no chance to beat the Heat...especially Westbrook because I think he fits perfectly with them.

It would just take that player filling in to play great for that series. Which can certainly happen when talking about elite players.

Why couldn't Rose have 3 great games out of 7? Why are the standards so low for him?

[Graviton]

Well, I don't think they are worse now. And I'm saying this assuming they are healthy. Noah should be back healthy by the playoffs from the reports I've read...and the rest of the team seems to be pretty healthy.

I'm assuming a normal Rose.

There is a difference between "no chance" and "not likely"

11 is referenced because it's a lot of the same players and was a tightly fought series.

But we can throw that out if you want. The Bulls style of play gives a team like the Heat fits.

You can write off the recent game as meaningless, but we all know it meant a lot to both teams.

I mean...do you even pay attention to what the Bulls are doing. Did you watch the game tonight? They are a really good team even without Rose. I guess I rate Rose higher than you...which is rare talking to a Rose fan. You guys seem to think he's elite.

All I know is that if Westbrook or Paul was on the Bulls right now...I would not think they had absolutely no chance to beat the Heat...especially Westbrook because I think he fits perfectly with them.

It would just take that player filling in to play great for that series. Which can certainly happen when talking about elite players.

Why couldn't Rose have 3 great games out of 7? Why are the standards so low for him?

Lol I am probably the biggest Westbrook fan here and you saying he would do better than Rose with this team is hilarious. Heat would just guard him loose and let him shoot his mid range bricks he usually does, how exactly will he be better here without Durant/Martin and a fast paced and actually a good 3 point shooting team like the Thunder? He would give away games with his low IQ plays alone, something even I can admit to when he is the only option.

And what exactly is Paul gonna do with a team with no 3 point shooters, finishers around the rim and no fast break game? He needs actual scoring options around him to succeed, he is not good enough to take over games vs elite defenses and quicker/taller defenders. Have you not seen him vs OKC this year? He couldn't do ANYTHING with Thabo/Westbrook guarding him. What is he gonna do when Lebron/Wade are on him in 4th quarters? That all ignoring the fact he likes to pass more than score and isn't an aggressive impact player that you need to have against the Heat, they would love to play Paul along with defensive role players. :oldlol: How overrated is Paul nowadays, this ain't 2008. He is not some amazing player that can take over and win you playoff games or carry an offensive load, neither is he some defensive monster based on his 1st Team All D lifetime achievement awards. Paul has never even gotten to a Conference Finals but he is gonna beat the Heat. :roll:

Standards aren't low for Rose, even if he plays at the level you say Heat will just have Lebron play even at a higher level, along with Wade/Bosh outplaying anyone on the Bulls aside from Rose.

Highly unlikely is same as impossible in this league, it's not as if I underrate Rose, you just overrate the team as a whole and think them outworking teams in the regular season is enough to beat the Heat 4 times in the playoffs. They were a 1st round exit last year for christ's sake. Pacers played Heat similarly to Bulls last year, we saw how that turned out when Lebron/Wade started being physical as well and just destroyed them.

[DMAVS41]

Lol I am probably the biggest Westbrook fan here and you saying he would do better than Rose with this team is hilarious. Heat would just guard him loose and let him shoot his mid range bricks he usually does, how exactly will he be better here without Durant/Martin and a fast paced and actually a good 3 point shooting team like the Thunder? He would give away games with his low IQ plays alone, something even I can admit to when he is the only option.

And what exactly is Paul gonna do with a team with no 3 point shooters, finishers around the rim and no fast break game? He needs actual scoring options around him to succeed, he is not good enough to take over games vs elite defenses and quicker/taller defenders. Have you not seen him vs OKC this year? He couldn't do ANYTHING with Thabo/Westbrook guarding him. What is he gonna do when Lebron/Wade are on him in 4th quarters? That all ignoring the fact he likes to pass more than score and isn't an aggressive impact player that you need to have against the Heat, they would love to play Paul along with defensive role players. :oldlol: How overrated is Paul nowadays, this ain't 2008. He is not some amazing player that can take over and win you playoff games or carry an offensive load, neither is he some defensive monster based on his 1st Team All D lifetime achievement awards. Paul has never even gotten to a Conference Finals but he is gonna beat the Heat. :roll:

Standards aren't low for Rose, even if he plays at the level you say Heat will just have Lebron play even at a higher level, along with Wade/Bosh outplaying anyone on the Bulls aside from Rose.

Highly unlikely is same as impossible in this league, it's not as if I underrate Rose, you just overrate the team as a whole and think them outworking teams in the regular season is enough to beat the Heat 4 times in the playoffs. They were a 1st round exit last year for christ's sake. Pacers played Heat similarly to Bulls last year, we saw how that turned out when Lebron/Wade started being physical as well and just destroyed them.

We disagree too much to even debate. The idea that Westbrook and Paul can't take over games and carry the load offensively is a joke.

Standards are low for Rose. He's simply not an elite player if the current Bulls supporting cast gives him no chance to win.

If the true stars of the league...Lebron, Wade, Westbrook, Durant, Kobe, Dirk, Paul...played on the Bulls...nobody would be saying they had no chance to win it.

And highly unlikely is not impossible. It was highly unlikely that the Mavs beat the Heat in 11...yet that happened. I guess they just shouldn't have played that series. I wonder what that series would have been like if Dirk came up small in every 4th qtr....LOL

[Graviton]

We disagree too much to even debate. The idea that Westbrook and Paul can't take over games and carry the load offensively is a joke.

Standards are low for Rose. He's simply not an elite player if the current Bulls supporting cast gives him no chance to win.

If the true stars of the league...Lebron, Wade, Westbrook, Durant, Kobe, Dirk, Paul...played on the Bulls...nobody would be saying they had no chance to win it.

And highly unlikely is not impossible. It was highly unlikely that the Mavs beat the Heat in 11...yet that happened. I guess they just shouldn't have played that series. I wonder what that series would have been like if Dirk came up small in every 4th qtr....LOL

Lets not act like Lebron's didn't have one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA history for a Top 10 GOAT type player, if Heat didn't choke in that 2nd game and give up a 15 point lead the series would be over. That wasn't as highly unlikely as Rose beating 3 all-stars with defensive role players.

If you think Paul/Westbrook can take over and win 4 games against this current Miami team with the Bulls roster...than that's your own baseless opinion. I have watched enough Paul and Westbrook to know they are even easier to shut down than Rose. In a team without a legit 2nd or 3rd option they would be pretty useless against the Heat. I am not delusional enough to think Lebron/Wade gonna lose to an inferior player in the playoffs when they have the better supporting cast, coach and talent.

[DMAVS41]

Lets not act like Lebron's didn't have one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA history for a Top 10 GOAT type player, if Heat didn't choke in that 2nd game and give up a 15 point lead the series would be over. That wasn't as highly unlikely as Rose beating 3 all-stars with defensive role players.

If you think Paul/Westbrook can take over and win 4 games against this current Miami team with the Bulls roster...than that's your own baseless opinion. I have watched enough Paul and Westbrook to know they are even easier to shut down than Rose. In a team without a legit 2nd or 3rd option they would be pretty useless against the Heat. I am not delusional enough to think Lebron/Wade gonna lose to an inferior player in the playoffs when they have the better supporting cast, coach and talent.

The Heat have played 2 full playoffs together. They lost in the finals to the type of team you claim has no chance to beat them.

Can Paul or Westbrook do it? I know there is a chance...albeit an unlikely one.

So what if Lebron choked. Maybe he'd have an off few games...maybe Rose would play 3 great games. Maybe Boozer would go off in 2 games. So many things can happen. Acting like there is no chance...when we just saw it happen a couple years ago on a team exactly as you describe blows your whole theory out of the water.

[Graviton]

The Heat have played 2 full playoffs together. They lost in the finals to the type of team you claim has no chance to beat them.

Can Paul or Westbrook do it? I know there is a chance...albeit an unlikely one.

So what if Lebron choked. Maybe he'd have an off few games...maybe Rose would play 3 great games. Maybe Boozer would go off in 2 games. So many things can happen. Acting like there is no chance...when we just saw it happen a couple years ago on a team exactly as you describe blows your whole theory out of the water.

There is no chance against the current Heat with amazing ball movement, coaching, defense AND offense on top of Top 5 GOAT level player and Top 20 GOAT level player along with a legit all-star PF.

What you talk about is the Heat when they had no gameplan and no hierarchy, or any quality role players. Now they are a LOT better in every area.

Lebron choked, plain and simple. And it wasn't Dallas' magical defensive plan. Prior to that series Lebron destroyed 2 better defensive teams in Chicago and Boston, but against Mavs he suddenl struggles? It was more loike 80% mental/10% Mavs defense/10% D Wade winning FMVP.

There is a chance, but the chance is currently so small that there may as well be none. I have more faith in OKC beating Heat when Lebron/Wade/Bosh are 30+ and slowing down while Westbrook/Durant hit their prime/peak years.

The fact I have little faith rests with FO as well, Bulls management is just cheap and doesn't want to win a championship, they only care about ticket sales. They will cut salary, let valuable role players go and sign washed up nobodies at discount. Them beating the Heat in the next 2-3 years would be the biggest underdog story in modern NBA history. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

There is no chance against the current Heat with amazing ball movement, coaching, defense AND offense on top of Top 5 GOAT level player and Top 20 GOAT level player along with a legit all-star PF.

What you talk about is the Heat when they had no gameplan and no hierarchy, or any quality role players. Now they are a LOT better in every area.

Lebron choked, plain and simple. And it wasn't Dallas' magical defensive plan. Prior to that series Lebron destroyed 2 better defensive teams in Chicago and Boston, but against Mavs he suddenl struggles? It was more loike 80% mental/10% Mavs defense/10% D Wade winning FMVP.

There is a chance, but the chance is currently so small that there may as well be none. I have more faith in OKC beating Heat when Lebron/Wade/Bosh are 30+ and slowing down while Westbrook/Durant hit their prime/peak years.

The fact I have little faith rests with FO as well, Bulls management is just cheap and doesn't want to win a championship, they only care about ticket sales. They will cut salary, let valuable role players go and sign washed up nobodies at discount. Them beating the Heat in the next 2-3 years would be the biggest underdog story in modern NBA history. :oldlol:

You will never know until you play it out. Which, unfortunately, we won't get to see this year.

All I know is that your post is going to look absolutely absurd if the Heat lose in the playoffs.

I hope you realize that people were trying to diminish the Heat's title in 2011 before they even won it by stating that it didn't count because they were so good it was unfair for the rest of the league.

Then, one of the worst championship teams of the last 30 years, beat them in 6 in the finals.

These things aren't certain. You never truly know what is going to happen.

[Graviton]

You will never know until you play it out. Which, unfortunately, we won't get to see this year.

All I know is that your post is going to look absolutely absurd if the Heat lose in the playoffs.

I hope you realize that people were trying to diminish the Heat's title in 2011 before they even won it by stating that it didn't count because they were so good it was unfair for the rest of the league.

Then, one of the worst championship teams of the last 30 years, beat them in 6 in the finals.

These things aren't certain. You never truly know what is going to happen.

Well yea, nothing is certain, I may get hit by a bus next morning, does that mean I am gonna try not to cross any roads? I may win the lottery, who knows, does this mean I am gonna start playing it every day hoping to beat such crazy odds?

The fact is I can only make an educated guess based on the data provided, I can judge a team from what I see and predict what has the highest chance of happening. For now Heat are the clear favorites and Bulls are nothing but a group of guys that play hard every game trying to win games on effort and hustle, and some yelling from Thibs from the sidelines. :oldlol:

I don't see a unit that can challenge the Heat even with a healthy 2012 Rose, I don't see players with heart and balls that are willing to step up vs their mathcup and at least perform to their potential. I have no faith in Boozer showing up in the playoffs, or Deng not being completely useless vs Lebron, or any of our shooters actually hitting crucial wide open shots. I have seen the team crumble over and over with and without Rose versus elite teams, for them to beat the Heat they would need a real offensive minded assistant coach that can add a system to the team to best utilize each player along with Thib's defense. Not just run them to the ground by playing starters 40+ minutes every game just to win one or two extra matches againstsub .500 teams in the regular season. Thibs rotations and minute management has always been mediocre, along with his offensive sceme. I don't think he is a championship caliber coach, not yet anyway.

[DMAVS41]

Winning the lottery and getting hit by a bus are statistical improbabilities on a different scope than a team upsetting another in the playoffs.

Agree to disagree.

[Graviton]

Winning the lottery and getting hit by a bus are statistical improbabilities on a different scope than a team upsetting another in the playoffs.

Agree to disagree.
We were agreeing to disagree this whole time. :oldlol:

I think you are underrating the current Heat roster based on their performance in 2011 vs a better Bulls roster. Now we are dealing with a much better Heat team vs a worse Bulls team, the odds of the same close series taking place and Rose actually stepping up are even lower. Now if say we kept Korver/Asik and traded Boozer/Deng for better pieces I might agree that there is an actual chance. But as is the roster isn't as deep or impactful as you make it out to be, the playoffs will show us that much.

[DMAVS41]

We were agreeing to disagree this whole time. :oldlol:

I think you are underrating the current Heat roster based on their performance in 2011 vs a better Bulls roster. Now we are dealing with a much better Heat team vs a worse Bulls team, the odds of the same close series taking place and Rose actually stepping up are even lower. Now if say we kept Korver/Asik and traded Boozer/Deng for better pieces I might agree that there is an actual chance. But as is the roster isn't as deep or impactful as you make it out to be, the playoffs will show us that much.

The playoffs will not show us anything without Rose. The Mavs in 11 would have lost to the Blazers in the first round, quite easily I might add, without Dirk. With Dirk they won the title. So that point means nothing...and it shouldn't.

I don't think the Bulls are worse now. I actually like them more...specifically because of Butler, but I also really like Hinrich and Robinson for this team as well.

I said agre to disagree because we are too far apart. I honestly think the notion that Thibs isn't a championship caliber coach...is absurd. I think he's one of the best coaches in the league...with a strong case after Pop to be the best coach.

You say I over-rate the Bulls....well...I think you under-rate the **** out of them...especially the coach.

[AirFederer]

The playoffs will not show us anything without Rose. The Mavs in 11 would have lost to the Blazers in the first round, quite easily I might add, without Dirk. With Dirk they won the title. So that point means nothing...and it shouldn't.

I don't think the Bulls are worse now. I actually like them more...specifically because of Butler, but I also really like Hinrich and Robinson for this team as well.

I said agre to disagree because we are too far apart. I honestly think the notion that Thibs isn't a championship caliber coach...is absurd. I think he's one of the best coaches in the league...with a strong case after Pop to be the best coach.

You say I over-rate the Bulls....well...I think you under-rate the **** out of them...especially the coach.

Agree 100 %. Your post are so well written it`s a pleasure to read them. Thank you! :applause: :bowdown:

[PickernRoller]

They were done after the loss to the Lakers.

They'll make the playoffs next year if Dirk is healthy (would have made it this year as well), but the franchise is just in a bad spot.

Only way to compete for a title is to bring in another superstar...and that is obviously really tough.

Sucks for Dirk that after 11...he might not get to play on another championship caliber team.

Thank your pvssy @ss owner for shipping out everyone.

[stevieming]

This :rockon:

How was it a fluke?

The opposition the Mavs faced to the final was tough, way tougher than Miami's.

Good portland team in 1st round.

Swept the champs in 2nd round.

Beat out the next year finalist OKC in the W Finals

And beat the Heat, who had a crazy record this season and probably going to repeat.....

[stevieming]

Dirk just isn't that good. He always has so much talent, including this season. That 2011 ring was a complete fluke. They haven't even sniffed that glory since they lost Tyson Chandler. Coincidence? 'Fraid not. We all know Miami lost that series, Dallas didn't win it.

You must be trolling.....

Dirk played out of his mind in 2011 PO....dominated like no other....in fact I don't think I've seen such a great run by a player in 4th quarter scoring since MJ...

Dude was unstoppable.....how can anyone not have enjoyed Dirk''s dominance that year!! :bowdown:

Ibaka - come get some...
Pau - come get some...
Bosh, Wade, Bron - they all got it!!!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

Just thinking about the 2011 Mavs brings tears of happiness to my eyes!!

[kenny817]

Thank your pvssy @ss owner for shipping out everyone.

4 HOF'ers in the starting lineup and fighting for the 8 seed...

Shut your mouth I don't want to hear you.

Lakers been sucking complete BALLS ever since we swept their bum asses