if Kobe never went down with a career ending injury. would he have been top 3 alltime

[kennethgriffin]

i think if he would have had another 3-4 years of mamba type basketball he could have. but now hes stuck at boarderline top 5-6 i guess


ya i said it

[shady6121]

He's borderline top 10 all-time and that's the truth.

[kennethgriffin]

He's borderline top 10 all-time and that's the truth.


enough with the trolling. the guys career is over. time to drop the "maybe top 10" garbage

:facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This isn't your personal blog kid. We don't care about your just-type-whatever-pops-into-your-head-first crap. :lol

[DaSeba5]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

[rs98762001]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.
Yup.

[LongLiveTheKing]

He was going to retire after next year. He said so himself many times.

[MMM]

Kobe is 8-10
but mamba basketball wasn't going to lead to any further titles so how would it boast him to top 3???

Mamba basketball the last few years has lead to
swept out of 2nd round
losing in 5
and being a borderline playoff team

[kennethgriffin]

He was going to retire after next year. He said so himself many times.


doubt it

[LongLiveTheKing]

doubt it
Okay I'll take your word over Kobe's?

[MetsPackers]

He's borderline top 10 all-time and that's the truth.

/thread

only kobe stans think he's any higher than 8 or 9 at most, and even that's a little generous. No hater just how I always viewed him

[fpliii]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

This is 100% fair and correct.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is 8-10
but mamba basketball wasn't going to lead to any further titles so how would it boast him to top 3???

Mamba basketball the last few years has lead to
swept out of 2nd round
losing in 5
and being a borderline playoff team


the only guys who are legit ahead of kobe are jordan, kareem, russell, wilt

kobe can be argued with magic
kobe can be argued with larry
kobe can be argued with shaq
kobe can be argued with duncan

so depending on who you like more is how you rank those 5 guys

kobe is anywhere from 5th to 9th. most likely 6th behind magic or tied at 7 with bird

[TheWalkman]

He's borderline top 10 all-time and that's the truth.

:applause: This.

[MMM]

the only guys who are legit ahead of kobe are jordan, kareem, russell, wilt

kobe can be argued with magic
kobe can be argued with larry
kobe can be argued with shaq
kobe can be argued with duncan

so depending on who you like more is how you rank those 5 guys

kobe is anywhere from 5th to 9th. most likely 6th behind magic or tied at 7 with bird

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.

[MisterAmazing]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

this :applause:

[9erempiree]

I have him as the greatest basketball player ever.

He had two more titles in him and he would have been had past Malone in points before the injury.

He went out on top.

[Mr. Jabbar]

top 6 right now

[K Xerxes]

I've got him 9th on my list, but consider him fairly interchangable with Duncan and Shaq (8th and 10th respectively).

This season has not changed my opinion of Kobe, and neither will this injury. I see the mentality of a top 5 player of all time, but the abilities of a borderline 10th place.

[kennethgriffin]

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.


the funny thing is whenever theres a country wide vote on this subject. kobe routinely gets voted into the top 5

only message board posters seem to underrate him so vastly... glad we only make up less than 0.0001% of the world

[BrickingStar]

Top 10 at 8 for me but that's it

[DaSeba5]

My top 5 is Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Russell, and Wilt (besides Jordan, not in any particular order)

Then Bird at 6, so that leaves 7,8,9 for Duncan, Kobe, and Shaq (in no particular order)

[MMM]

I have him as the greatest basketball player ever.

He had two more titles in him and he would have been had past Malone in points before the injury.

He went out on top.

aren't you the guy that said that he had to leave the Lakers to win again???

[fpliii]

the funny thing is whenever theres a country wide vote on this subject. kobe routinely gets voted into the top 5

only message board posters seem to underrate him so vastly... glad we only make up less than 0.0001% of the world

I like Kobe as much as the next guy griff, but why are you citing public perception when constructing your list? You can produce your own top 10 without resorting to that, so why are you baiting?

[K Xerxes]

the funny thing is whenever theres a country wide vote on this subject. kobe routinely gets voted into the top 5

only message board posters seem to underrate him so vastly... glad we only make up less than 0.0001% of the world

You get a country wide vote on 'Do you know who Tim Duncan is?', I'd be surprised if half vote 'yes'.

[Rubio2Gasol]

You underestimate just how much everyone loves a comeback....if he can pull it off.

[Psycho]

Sorry I haven't been around ISH, I know you've all missed me. It's just that watching Kobe's injury has made me so incredibly horny I've been jerking it nonstop to the look on Kobe's face when he went down. But I think I've gotten out of my system now, and will once again be able to grace you guys with my presence.

Now, back on topic, Kobe is number 8 on my list, and probably would not have moved without injury.

[Quintilianus]

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.
There's definitely an argument between magic larry shaq and kobe

[MMM]

There's definitely an argument between magic larry shaq and kobe

What differentiates them for me is that Shaq, Bird and Magic all had distinctive periords where they were the clear cut best player in the league. I don't think Kobe has had a run where he was a clear cut best or most dominant player in the league.

[The_Yearning]

5 rings > 1 ring.

[fozi]

I have him 3rd/4th ..

I have LeBron 9th if he wins this year ..



Other active players to crack potential top ten or top 15 ?


NONE so far..

[STATUTORY]

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.

have never heard a reasonable argument for those guys over kobe

[DixieNourmous]

enough with the trolling. the guys career is over. time to drop the "maybe top 10" garbage

:facepalm


Trollin? :lol




Here is the truth on this injury

What does Achilles tendon surgery involve?
Surgical repair is typically the treatment of choice for athletes. Surgical repair usually allows for:

[WillC]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

I agree with this.

The top five is reserved for Jordan, Kareem, Wilt, Russell and one of Magic or Bird.

Kobe fits into the next group with Shaq, Duncan, Big O, West and Olajuwon.

An extra couple of years would have made very little difference to Kobe's legacy.

[fpliii]

I have him 3rd/4th ..

I have LeBron 9th if he wins this year ..



Other active players to crack potential top ten or top 15 ?


NONE so far..

What the hell? Duncan is clearly top 10. KG also has an outside case for top 15, but he probably falls just short. Wade/Dirk are also all-time greats, but likely aren't close to the top 15.

[9erempiree]

Greatest players of all time and always mentioned in the conversation, it will be in future and beyond:

Kobe
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Magic

These guys are always mentioned when talking about the greatest players of all time no matter where people have them ranked on their list.

[Derka]

No. 8-10 if I'm making the list.

[arifgokcen]

Kobe can be ranked anywhere from 7th to 9th.At least thats why I have seen him ranked in general.

MJ magic kareem wilt russell shaq are definitely ahead of him.I would personally rank bird ahead of him too.

Duncan and kobe is very arguable their impact accolades are to close as a whole

[fpliii]

Greatest players of all time and always mentioned in the conversation, it will be in future and beyond:

Kobe
Lebron
MJ
Kareem
Magic

These guys are always mentioned when talking about the greatest players of all time no matter where people have them ranked on their list.

A lot of purple and gold. I like it. :cheers:

[Rubio2Gasol]

I like Kobe as much as the next guy griff, but why are you citing public perception when constructing your list? You can produce your own top 10 without resorting to that, so why are you baiting?

Sadly this is always what it comes down to anyway?

-What Makes Magic a top 5 player now as opposed to at best a top ten player when he retired?

-What makes Hakeem a top 10 player now as opposed to whatever they ranked him (15-20) when he retired.

It's what it is. Their games didn't change, what they accomplished didn't change, just the degree to which their talents were appreciated.

[jcsrplumply]

It is always based on opinion (bias or not) but in my list so far he is #9.

[PJR]

The obsession for ranking players is so retarded.

[Dbrog]

the only guys who are legit ahead of kobe are jordan, kareem, russell, wilt

kobe can be argued with magic
kobe can be argued with larry
kobe can be argued with shaq
kobe can be argued with duncan

so depending on who you like more is how you rank those 5 guys

kobe is anywhere from 5th to 9th. most likely 6th behind magic or tied at 7 with bird

I guess it could be argued..those arguments are weak though. Kobe gets no higher than 8 in a top 10 list (9th on mine even though I think Hakeem was significantly better at his peak). All the dudes listed above dominated the league for a period (including playoffs)...Kobe just....never showed that he could carry a team like those other guys. Still, just being in top 10 is an AMAZING accomplishment! :applause: :rockon: :bowdown:

[Rubio2Gasol]

I guess it could be argued..those arguments are weak though. Kobe gets no higher than 8 in a top 10 list (9th on mine even though I think Hakeem was significantly better at his peak). All the dudes listed above dominated the league for a period (including playoffs)...Kobe just....never showed that he could carry a team like those other guys. Still, just being in top 10 is an AMAZING accomplishment! :applause: :rockon: :bowdown:


Carry a team and dominate the league are a couple different things - Kobe did both at a level comparable to anyone not outside of Hakeem,Wilt, Shaq(only in terms of dominating the league) and Jordan.

[Quintilianus]

Sadly this is always what it comes down to anyway?

-What Makes Magic a top 5 player now as opposed to at best a top ten player when he retired?

-What makes Hakeem a top 10 player now as opposed to whatever they ranked him (15-20) when he retired.

It's what it is. Their games didn't change, what they accomplished didn't change, just the degree to which their talents were appreciated.
Because casual fans bust their nuts to the all-around stats these days and stuff like PER or eff forgetting that the thing all players play for is a ring and that's what should matter over everything

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe is 8-10
but mamba basketball wasn't going to lead to any further titles so how would it boast him to top 3???

Mamba basketball the last few years has lead to
swept out of 2nd round
losing in 5
and being a borderline playoff team



Mamba bball never led to titles. It was only carried to a few of them. The bigs -and wing defenders and clutch playoff shot makers were in the front seats doing the hard work, Kobe was strapped in a car seat in the back chucking away and hogging all the glory that everyone was working together toward.

Only thing Kobe is even close to "top 10 all time" in is popularity. On game to game impact, hes not top 20. Period.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Because casual fans bust their nuts to the all-around stats these days and stuff like PER or eff forgetting that the thing all players play for is a ring and that's what should matter over everything

:oldlol:

While I've heard this before....I'm not sure it applies in these particular situations :oldlol:.

[Dbrog]

Carry a team and dominate the league are a couple different things - Kobe did both at a level comparable to anyone not outside of Hakeem,Wilt, Shaq(only in terms of dominating the league) and Jordan.

I wouldn't say that Kobe ever dominated the league...not like those other guys. I would argue that Dirk dominated more than Kobe ever has in 2011. And as far as carrying a team...Kobe simply never had to except for the smush parker days...but nothing ever came from that. He just missed the playoffs and then gave up against the Suns. Yes, he was easily the best player on his team when he won the chip w/ Pau (while Bynum was injured), but lets not act like Pau wasn't destroying frontlines in the playoffs. Also, Ariza was very good that year.

[sportjames23]

i think if he would have had another 3-4 years of mamba type basketball he could have. but now hes stuck at boarderline top 5-6 i guess


ya i said it


Future neg guaransheed.

[sportjames23]

I have him as the greatest basketball player ever.

He had two more titles in him and he would have been had past Malone in points before the injury.

He went out on top.


I'd neg you twice if I could.

[OldSkoolball#52]

I'd neg you twice if I could.


That dude and kenegriffith and quantilis are just troll members being absurd on purpose to get a rise out of folks. Theyre not real people who actually believe te things theyre typing. Theyre nothin to pay attention to.

The sad and annoying ones are the actual legit members whose obsession with Kobe really is genuinely almost at a level of 9eremlires satirical one.

[sportjames23]

Yeah, I've been lurking for a while before I could finally register. I'm familiar with griff and 9's posts. Hell, I've suspected them of being sock puppets. :oldlol:

[Rubio2Gasol]

I wouldn't say that Kobe ever dominated the league...not like those other guys. I would argue that Dirk dominated more than Kobe ever has in 2011. And as far as carrying a team...Kobe simply never had to except for the smush parker days...but nothing ever came from that. He just missed the playoffs and then gave up against the Suns. Yes, he was easily the best player on his team when he won the chip w/ Pau (while Bynum was injured), but lets not act like Pau wasn't destroying frontlines in the playoffs. Also, Ariza was very good that year.

I agree they were all very good. Other teams also had their fair share of talent - other than Wilt who I can't really speak on.

[pauk]

Mamba type of basketball? What does that mean? Add more points to his total? Then no... If he managed to somehow get some MVPs, FMVPs/Championships during those 3-4 years then yes, why not...

[WillC]

Sadly this is always what it comes down to anyway?

-What Makes Magic a top 5 player now as opposed to at best a top ten player when he retired?

-What makes Hakeem a top 10 player now as opposed to whatever they ranked him (15-20) when he retired.

It's what it is. Their games didn't change, what they accomplished didn't change, just the degree to which their talents were appreciated.

Eh? Where did you get the above information from?

In 1994, Peter C. Bjarkman ranked Magic Johnson as the 3rd greatest player of all-time in his book 'The Encyclopedia of Basketball Team Histories'.

In 1997, Slam magazine ranked Hakeem Olajuwon as the 10th best player of all-time.

Nice try though.

[KG215]

the funny thing is whenever theres a country wide vote on this subject. kobe routinely gets voted into the top 5

only message board posters seem to underrate him so vastly... glad we only make up less than 0.0001% of the world
It's not funny. It's funny that you often cite these fan polls from places like ESPN and Bleacher Report, as being credible. Kobe is the most popular player of his generation and has spent his entire career playing for probably the most popular team in the NBA. He has a huge cult like following nationwide. That's why you can't take those polls seriously.. The posters at ISH may make up 0.0001% of the world's NBA fans, but they probably make up a larger percentage of the hardcore NBA fans than the number of people who vote Kobe as top 5 in fan polls.

Basically, if you took the LeBron stans and Kobe stans out of the equation, and made up a panel of the more unbiased and knowledgeable posters on this or any other NBA related message board, you'd get a decent sized sampling of some of the most hardcore NBA fans around. And I'd be willing to bet that the consensus would be that Kobe is in the 7-10 range all-time, as he should be.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Actually no.

Because everyone is a fan of someone. Simply omitting Kobe and Lebron fans is not going to garner objectivity in anything. There is no objectivity. You guys judging players over different eras, under different criteria, who played in different contexts, with different degrees of talent, different degrees of coaching, different degrees of exogenus influences...but you expect universal agreement with your opinion....Which is what it is at the end of the day.

There's incongruence in every possible arrangement of players, to act as if it's set in stone is ridiculous.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Eh? Where did you get the above information from?

In 1994, Peter C. Bjarkman ranked Magic Johnson as the 3rd greatest player of all-time in his book 'The Encyclopedia of Basketball Team Histories'.

In 1997, Slam magazine ranked Hakeem Olajuwon as the 10th best player of all-time.

Nice try though.

I'm not trying anything.

Hakeem - I know for a fact was criminally underrated up to 94' and proceeded to be underrated after 94'. Ranking him has always been a point of contention - but I used to hear names I don't hear now in arguments. Dudes like Dr J, Moses, Zeke, Barkley..etc.

The mere fact that he was ranked 10th in 97 by this one magazine article an, and still continues to be continually included in the top 10 today - reflects an improvement in the public perception of him over time. Because guys like Shaq,Kobe,Duncan have likely been additions to the list.

On Magic - I never read the book - I don't know who wrote it. Most will tell you there's been a distinct rise in persons perceptions of Magic since his retirement.

[guy]

i think if he would have had another 3-4 years of mamba type basketball he could have. but now hes stuck at boarderline top 5-6 i guess


ya i said it

Maybe. So what? You can say that about alot of players. Lets not turn this into some great "what if" like "what if Jordan never retired the first and/or second time?", "what if Bird's back injury didn't happen and shorten his career?", "what if Magic didn't contract HIV and shorten his career"?, etc. All 3 of them could've had 3-4 more seasons at the level they were playing before those things happened. Kobe's played a full career, 17 seasons, 13 at a superstar level, almost till the age of the 35. Kobe's had great longevity, but you do realize that most player's longevity was cut short due to injuries right? Kobe's not that different in that respect, but his injuries came later. I'd understand if this happened to him 5 years ago, but it didn't. No need to preface this with anything.

[alleykat]

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.

I agree to an extent....I put him above Duncan for sure....maybe even Hakeem tho...

[I.R.Beast]

I think you can make an argument for anyone in the top 15 but some of those arguments would be weak as hell. As great as Kobe is, I can't put him above Magic, Larry, and Shaq. I think Kobe is in the same tier as Hakeem and Duncan but I also prefer those 2 guys over him too.

Kobe > Shaq

[KG215]

Actually no.

Because everyone is a fan of someone. Simply omitting Kobe and Lebron fans is not going to garner objectivity in anything. There is no objectivity. You guys judging players over different eras, under different criteria, who played in different contexts, with different degrees of talent, different degrees of coaching, different degrees of exogenus influences...but you expect universal agreement with your opinion....Which is what it is at the end of the day.

There's incongruence in every possible arrangement of players, to act as if it's set in stone is ridiculous.
Where did I say otherwise? Of course everyone is a fan of someone. However, would you not agree that you could collect about 20-25 knowledgeable posters from ISH alone that wouldn't let their personal biases get in the way when it comes to evaluating players? When I say eliminate Kobe stans and LeBron stans, I'm talking about the most hardcore posters like kennethgrifin, 9erempire, ripthekik, AlphaWolf, pauk, LeBron23, silk, KingWillBall etc. that would either overrate him or underrate him based on their personal biases.

Of course you're never going to get a uniform opinion, but Griff says "it's funny" because these national fan polls have said Kobe's top 5 all-time. I pointed out why it's silly to use those as support for an argument. And I don't think anyone has tried to argue that Kobe or any other top 10 player is necessarily set in stone at one spot.

[Nero Tulip]

He's definitely not in the top 10, are you kidding me. The guy has never been the best player in the league.

[KG215]

Maybe. So what? You can say that about alot of players. Lets not turn this into some great "what if" like "what if Jordan never retired the first and/or second time?", "what if Bird's back injury didn't happen and shorten his career?", "what if Magic didn't contract HIV and shorten his career"?, etc. All 3 of them could've had 3-4 more seasons at the level they were playing before those things happened. Kobe's played a full career, 17 seasons, 13 at a superstar level, almost till the age of the 35. Kobe's had great longevity, but you do realize that most player's longevity was cut short due to injuries right? Kobe's not that different in that respect, but his injuries came later. I'd understand if this happened to him 5 years ago, but it didn't. No need to preface this with anything.
Bill Walton's another major "what if?" player. He was only 24 when they won it all in '77 and was having an even better season in '78 at 25 years old before he got hurt. He could've had another 7-8 seasons at or close to the level he was playing at in '77 an '78 if we're going to play the "what if?" game, and he'd easily be top 10 all-time.

[kennethgriffin]

He's definitely not in the top 10, are you kidding me. The guy has never been the best player in the league.

Sporting News player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

TNT player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

Sports Illustrated player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

Dime Magazine player of the decade - Kobe Bryant



yet hes never been the best for even just 1 year?


lol

[elementally morale]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

Agreed.

[Just2McFly]

the only guys who are legit ahead of kobe are jordan, kareem, russell, wilt

kobe can be argued with magic
kobe can be argued with larry
kobe can be argued with shaq
kobe can be argued with duncan

so depending on who you like more is how you rank those 5 guys

kobe is anywhere from 5th to 9th. most likely 6th behind magic or tied at 7 with birdI actually agree with this

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe Bryant:

25 ppg (44.7 FG%)
5 Reb
4.7 assit/3.0 turnovers
Doesnt take charges, guard stars, or try on D


TOP 10 ALL TIME NBA

Better than Shaq. Better than Lebron. Better than Duncan. Better than KG. Better than Kidd. Better than Larry and Magic. Better than Jerry. Better than Wilt. Better than Hakeem.

Goatbe

:bowdown:



:roll:

[dh144498]

I think it's best that we just recognize the fact that Kobe will always be talked about when it comes to basketball legends.

[guy]

He's definitely not in the top 10, are you kidding me. The guy has never been the best player in the league.

Even if that's the case, which I don't agree with, that doesn't mean he's not top 10. The league has been around for only less then 70 years. And I say "only" because the players that are the "best player in the league" usually hold that label for many years. Seriously, not including Kobe, how many players in history have actually been the "best player in the league". There was Mikan in the 50s, Russell and Wilt in the 60s, Kareem in the 70s, Moses, Bird and Magic in the 80s, Jordan for some of the 80s and most of the 90s, Hakeem in the 90s when Jordan was retired, Shaq/Duncan/KG in the early to mid 00s, and then if we're not including Kobe there's Lebron. So how many is that? 13 different players? You could still argue Kobe is top 10 still.

[Shepseskaf]

Despite having a good statistical year, the team's lack of success will definitely hurt his legacy.

To my mind, Kobe's just outside of the top 10. I have Hakeem ranked higher.

[rhythmic]

Jordan, Wilt, Magic, Russell, Kareem are the only players I'd surely take over Kobe right now.
I'd take Kobe over Shaquille, Olajuwon and Duncan, but not sure about Bird yet.
I think Kobe's 7th right now.
Two more seasons like he had this year and he'd quite easily jump into my top 5, I just don't see him ever being able to surpass Jordan or Kareem. It will take another championship for him to surpass Russell or Magic.

I have Wilt at 5 and Bird at 6.
Jordan, Kareem, Russell, Magic are my top four.

[Uncle Drew]

Sporting News player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

TNT player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

Sports Illustrated player of the decade - Kobe Bryant

Dime Magazine player of the decade - Kobe Bryant



yet hes never been the best for even just 1 year?


lol
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/03/nba.highlights.lowlights/index.html
PLAYER OF THE DECADE: Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs

Both TNT and Sporting News were fan voted, so big surprise..

[rhythmic]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/magazine/specials/2000s/12/03/nba.highlights.lowlights/index.html
PLAYER OF THE DECADE: Tim Duncan, San Antonio Spurs

Both TNT and Sporting News were fan voted, so big surprise..

Well, Kobe won more titles and made more final appearances during the decade.
Also had like a 4-1 head-to-head record against Duncan in the playoffs, no?
Completely annihilated Duncan's team every meeting...

From 00-09', I believe Kobe accomplished more then Duncan.

[Mrofir]

the only guys who are legit ahead of kobe are jordan, kareem, russell, wilt

kobe can be argued with magic
kobe can be argued with larry
kobe can be argued with shaq
kobe can be argued with duncan

so depending on who you like more is how you rank those 5 guys

kobe is anywhere from 5th to 9th. most likely 6th behind magic or tied at 7 with bird

can't be argued with magic and larry, the rest of your post is ok.

jordan
kaj
russell
wilt
larry
magic
t7 - kobe
t7 - duncan
t7 - shaq
t7- hakeem

This is where he is. Knocking on the door of the impossible tier, the top 6. Will be interesting to see if Lebron can get into that group or if he will end up t7 as well. congrats, must have been fun to watch. Best wishes for a good recovery and let's just accept reality. He's had a fantastic career and here's hoping it continues in a way that he deserves.

[MMM]

I just don't see how Kobe can be argued over guys that were anchors on both sides of the court like Hakeem and Duncan. Imo those guys had more impact on the game and impact on their teams winning and losing. They could also go for 30+ if needed.

I don't think Kobe was as dominant as other non big greats; Jordan, Magic, and Bird. Those guys had more overall games and displayed their greatness in more than one way. Not saying Kobe doesn't have an alround game but he isn't as well rounded as the players i mentioned. They were also better teammates and had more impact in improving the games of the people around them. That is just my 2 cents though

[Just2McFly]

I just don't see how Kobe can be argued over guys that were anchors on both sides of the court like Hakeem and Duncan. Imo those guys had more impact on the game and impact on their teams winning and losing. They could also go for 30+ if needed.

I don't think Kobe was as dominant as other non big greats; Jordan, Magic, and Bird. Those guys had more overall games and displayed their greatness in more than one way. Not saying Kobe doesn't have an alround game but he isn't as well rounded as the players i mentioned. They were also better teammates and had more impact in improving the games of the people around them. That is just my 2 cents though


Kobe is and was a great defensive player, have people forgotten this? Most of his first team selections are a serious testament to his defensive greatness. He's had some lazy season, I will concede that one right away, but during his prime defensive years he was a game changer. There are times where he would take on some of the best scorers in the L and shut them down. His ball denial skills and the amount of effort he put into that was amazing in the early 2000's.

I feel like if you compare his resume to others like Duncan, Bird and Magic. He certainly has more than a compelling case. Longevity, Peak and Accolades are what most of go by and looking at that, Kobe has an amazing resume.

[MMM]

Kobe is and was a great defensive player, have people forgotten this? Most of his first team selections are a serious testament to his defensive greatness. He's had some lazy season, I will concede that one right away, but during his prime defensive years he was a game changer. There are times where he would take on some of the best scorers in the L and shut them down. His ball denial skills and the amount of effort he put into that was amazing in the early 2000's.

I feel like if you compare his resume to others like Duncan, Bird and Magic. He certainly has more than a compelling case. Longevity, Peak and Accolades are what most of go by and looking at that, Kobe has an amazing resume.

Kobe had a few good - great defensive seasons but for the most part he conserved energy for defense. My ranking has more to do with their imprint on game or overall dominance, and I don't think Kobe was as dominant as Wilt, Shaq, MJ not did he have the overall impact of Hakeem, Duncan, Bird, etc.

Also as great as Kobe was defensively, he plays a position that isn't going to make much of a difference compared to others. Even in his defensive prime they would match him up against the non offensive wigs to avoid picking up fouls.

[MMM]

Kobe is and was a great defensive player, have people forgotten this? Most of his first team selections are a serious testament to his defensive greatness. He's had some lazy season, I will concede that one right away, but during his prime defensive years he was a game changer. There are times where he would take on some of the best scorers in the L and shut them down. His ball denial skills and the amount of effort he put into that was amazing in the early 2000's.

I feel like if you compare his resume to others like Duncan, Bird and Magic. He certainly has more than a compelling case. Longevity, Peak and Accolades are what most of go by and looking at that, Kobe has an amazing resume.

Kobe's longevity has a lot to do with playing in the modern era, not sure why that should be used against older players who didn't have the same luxury.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe is and was a great defensive player, have people forgotten this? Most of his first team selections are a serious testament to his defensive greatness. He's had some lazy season, I will concede that one right away, but during his prime defensive years he was a game changer. There are times where he would take on some of the best scorers in the L and shut them down. His ball denial skills and the amount of effort he put into that was amazing in the early 2000's.

I feel like if you compare his resume to others like Duncan, Bird and Magic. He certainly has more than a compelling case. Longevity, Peak and Accolades are what most of go by and looking at that, Kobe has an amazing resume.


Rip Hamilton lit up Kobe in the finals.

Artest, Battier, Bowen, Lebron, Prince, Wade, hell even Sefalosha, Ariza, Pierce, and Hamilton himself are elite perimeter defenders.

No-D Bryant has NEVER been an elite defender, ever. Its a myth his pathetic cult following clings to.


45% shooting ball hog with no D, rode coattails of great franchise to titles along with fisher. LMAO "top 10" lol

[DonDadda59]

No.

[black&scholes]

guys before kobe all time:

michael jordan
larry bird
magic johnson
kareem abduljabbar
wilt chamberlain
shaquille oneal
tim duncan


and soon to be: Lebron


kobe is probably 8th all time

[outbreak]

guys before kobe all time:

michael jordan
larry bird
magic johnson
kareem abduljabbar
wilt chamberlain
shaquille oneal
tim duncan


and soon to be: Lebron


kobe is probably 8th all time

You had me until you said Lebron will soon be rated higher than Kobe

[black&scholes]

You had me until you said Lebron will soon be rated higher than Kobe


by the time lebron retires he would have

5 MVPs
3-5 championships
3-5 finals mvp

+ more impact and dominance of the game than kobe ever had


how is that not better than 1 mvp, 2 finals mvp, 5 rings?

[nightprowler10]

can't be argued with magic and larry, the rest of your post is ok.

jordan
kaj
russell
wilt
larry
magic
t7 - kobe
t7 - duncan
t7 - shaq
t7- hakeem

This is where he is. Knocking on the door of the impossible tier, the top 6. Will be interesting to see if Lebron can get into that group or if he will end up t7 as well. congrats, must have been fun to watch. Best wishes for a good recovery and let's just accept reality. He's had a fantastic career and here's hoping it continues in a way that he deserves.
I don't know if I agree with the order of the top 6 but that doesn't matter, because you are absolutely dead-on on everything else. For me that top 6 will always be those guys unless someone has an incredible career. Early on in LeBron's career I thought he'd be the one, and while he still has a chance to crack that tier, I'm not as confident as I was back in '09.

[OldSkoolball#52]

guys before kobe all time:

michael jordan
larry bird
magic johnson
kareem abduljabbar
wilt chamberlain
shaquille oneal
tim duncan


and soon to be: Lebron


kobe is probably 8th all time

Not "soon to be" Lebron. That happened four years ago.

You meant to say "soon to be: Durant"

[BlackVVaves]

He's definitely in the top 10. Definitely not in the top 5.

Spot on.

[ripthekik]

Yeap. He is definitely top 10, anyone who says no is just being stupid.
I have him above Shaq, duncan, and hakeem.

[ripthekik]

by the time lebron retires he would have

5 MVPs
3-5 championships
3-5 finals mvp

+ more impact and dominance of the game than kobe ever had


how is that not better than 1 mvp, 2 finals mvp, 5 rings?
Lebron's fan's favorite thing to say.
If he gets x MVP, x rings, he would....

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[black&scholes]

Yeap. He is definitely top 10, anyone who says no is just being stupid.
I have him above Shaq, duncan, and hakeem.

above hakeem but not shaq and duncan

[OldSkoolball#52]

above hakeem


May I hear your argument, based on a comparison of their games?

[MMM]

above hakeem but not shaq and duncan

he shouldn't be above Hakeem as well, Hakeem carried a lack luster group to the title and bested one of the most dominant big mans the league has seen. Kobe hasn't done anything in terms of equaling that much less deserving more recognition

[black&scholes]

he shouldn't be above Hakeem as well, Hakeem carried a lack luster group to the title and bested one of the most dominant big mans the league has seen. Kobe hasn't done anything in terms of equaling that much less deserving more recognition


shhhh i'm just trying to make the kobe stans feel better

[ripthekik]

he shouldn't be above Hakeem as well, Hakeem carried a lack luster group to the title and bested one of the most dominant big mans the league has seen. Kobe hasn't done anything in terms of equaling that much less deserving more recognition
In that case Lebron will never make it pass top 10.

[kNicKz]

Yeap. He is definitely top 10, anyone who says no is just being stupid.
I have him above Shaq, duncan, and hakeem.

what is going on in your avatar?

edit:

nvm found it

http://tvloon.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lebron_and_kobe.jpg

jesus :roll:

[ripthekik]

what is going on in your avatar?

edit:

nvm found it

http://tvloon.ca/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lebron_and_kobe.jpg

jesus :roll:
This is what i posted about the pic earlier:
When you see the pic in actual size, you see the Godfather-like swag of Kobe, and the ball-boy humbleness of LeBron, who feels lucky to have the honor just to adjust the godfather's tie for him.

And Dwight's face there just completes the scene. absolutely beautiful.

[black&scholes]

This is what i posted about the pic earlier:
When you see the pic in actual size, you see the Godfather-like swag of Kobe, and the ball-boy humbleness of LeBron, who feels lucky to have the honor just to adjust the godfather's tie for him.

And Dwight's face there just completes the scene. absolutely beautiful.


no it actually looks like a an army general fixing the tie of a young infantry

[OldSkoolball#52]

This is what i posted about the pic earlier:
When you see the pic in actual size, you see the Godfather-like swag of Kobe, and the ball-boy humbleness of LeBron, who feels lucky to have the honor just to adjust the godfather's tie for him.

And Dwight's face there just completes the scene. absolutely beautiful.


Gee, youre not awkward or anything...

[MMM]

In that case Lebron will never make it pass top 10.

my post has nothing to do with LeBron. Unlike other I can have a basketball discussion about the game beyond Bron/Kobe.

[ripthekik]

no it actually looks like a an army general fixing the tie of a young infantry
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-iD3ATk66wwc/TwsFRPq7_wI/AAAAAAAAMaQ/xyD-4PFV2-I/s1600/the-godfather2.jpg

[TonyMontana]

Kobe was near the bottom of the top 10 before the season began.

With his epic choke job of failing to make the playoffs with a 4 HOF lineup everyone predicted to win the conference, that kicks him out of the top ten.

I don't see any top ten player missing the playoffs in any circumstance with Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash on their team. Imagine LeBron with that team. Would be first in the conference.

[kNicKz]

Kobe was near the bottom of the top 10 before the season began.

With his epic choke job of failing to make the playoffs with a 4 HOF lineup everyone predicted to win the conference, that kicks him out of the top ten.

I don't see any top ten player missing the playoffs in any circumstance with Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol, and Steve Nash on their team. Imagine LeBron with that team. Would be first in the conference.

For a good stretch of games jodie meeks and sacre were getting big minutes. Nash was out for a while, Dwight was 50 percent for the first half (he came alive in the 2nd half though) and Gasol (barring last week) has been a ghost for the entire season. Yes there are 4 HOF players on the team but there have almost never been 4 HOF players on the court together, which then leads to a chemistry issue having a different starting 5 every other game

[black&scholes]

For a good stretch of games jodie meeks and sacre were getting big minutes. Nash was out for a while, Dwight was 50 percent for the first half (he came alive in the 2nd half though) and Gasol (barring last week) has been a ghost for the entire season. Yes there are 4 HOF players on the team but there have almost never been 4 HOF players on the court together, which then leads to a chemistry issue having a different starting 5 every other game

yes the 4 HoFers were on court 7 times when all of them started, and they were 0-7

[OldSkoolball#52]

For a good stretch of games jodie meeks and sacre were getting big minutes. Nash was out for a while, Dwight was 50 percent for the first half (he came alive in the 2nd half though) and Gasol (barring last week) has been a ghost for the entire season. Yes there are 4 HOF players on the team but there have almost never been 4 HOF players on the court together, which then leads to a chemistry issue having a different starting 5 every other game


Yeah but Kobe was the cause of the chemistry issues so .... :confusedshrug:

[kNicKz]

This is what i posted about the pic earlier:
When you see the pic in actual size, you see the Godfather-like swag of Kobe, and the ball-boy humbleness of LeBron, who feels lucky to have the honor just to adjust the godfather's tie for him.

And Dwight's face there just completes the scene. absolutely beautiful.

:biggums:

[kNicKz]

yes the 4 HoFers were on court 7 times when all of them started, and they were 0-7

revert to the last sentence. When they are actually together there are chemistry issues. Can you read son?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

#10.

[kNicKz]

Yeah but Kobe was the cause of the chemistry issues so .... :confusedshrug:

source: dickrider

[FaceBack]

As far as basketball skills, Kobe is top three with MJ and Pistol Pete. MJ clearly had a better understanding of team basketball. This is one reason why big men are overrated ; they are strictly team players. They can only be dominant in team basketball. I personally don't credit players with unique size or athleticism. If you are taking NBA All-time players, Kobe is not top ten for you cannot overlook his inability to elevate his team's level with team basketball. He is probably the best one-on-one player ever, which IMO says more about his dedication to fundamentals .

[OldSkoolball#52]

As far as basketball skills, Kobe is top three with MJ and Pistol Pete. MJ clearly had a better understanding of team basketball. This is one reason why big men are overrated ; they are strictly team players. They can only be dominant in team basketball. I personally don't credit players with unique size or athleticism. If you are taking NBA All-time players, Kobe is not top ten for you cannot overlook his inability to elevate his team's level with team basketball. He is probably the best one-on-one player ever, which IMO says more about his dedication to fundamentals .


So you should have Iverson > Kobe. Same skills but without the height advantage.

[knickswin]

So you should have Iverson > Kobe. Same skills but without the height advantage.

I think iverson had better handles, but kobe definitely has better footwork and a better array of "moves." plus he is more ambidextrous than iverson.

[Shepseskaf]

Even with such a great career, Kobe will always be defined by his longevity and not by being at his best at the most prime moments.

Who knows what some of the older greats could have done if they had access to blood treatments in Germany that allowed them to turn the clock back years.

I'm not putting Kobe above Hakeem, nor Oscar. Once you add those two into the mix, you run out of space in the top 10.

So, he's 11-15. LeBron will push him down one more spot.

[ripthekik]

Even with such a great career, Kobe will always be defined by his longevity and not by being at his best at the most prime moments.

Who knows what some of the older greats could have done if they had access to blood treatments in Germany that allowed them to turn the clock back years.

I'm not putting Kobe above Hakeem, nor Oscar. Once you add those two into the mix, you run out of space in the top 10.

So, he's 11-15. LeBron will push him down one more spot.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Shepseskaf]

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Referring to your skills as a poster?

Why should Kobe be listed above Oscar or Hakeem?

[IllegalD]

Referring to your skills as a poster?

Why should Kobe be listed above Oscar or Hakeem?

How the hell is Oscar ranked above Kobe?

Anyone who ranks Oscar above Kobe is showing their extreme hypocrisy and bias against Bryant.

Oscar Robertson has ONE ring, which he won playing with a prime Kareem (who was the finals MVP putting up ridiculous numbers). Yet Kobe gets penalized for winning 3 rings with Shaq, and even for winning 2 with Gasol.

:confusedshrug:

[MMM]

As far as basketball skills, Kobe is top three with MJ and Pistol Pete. MJ clearly had a better understanding of team basketball. This is one reason why big men are overrated ; they are strictly team players. They can only be dominant in team basketball. I personally don't credit players with unique size or athleticism. If you are taking NBA All-time players, Kobe is not top ten for you cannot overlook his inability to elevate his team's level with team basketball. He is probably the best one-on-one player ever, which IMO says more about his dedication to fundamentals .

this post has thing we can build upon, big are more team oriented because they rely on others to feed them and i agree that Kobe is one of the better if not among the elite one on one players. However, basketball is a team sport and the team oriented bigs are going to make more impact on games and impact on winning games than non bigs can. There is a reason why the majority of championship teams have corner stone bigs, while Kobe led teams are one of few exceptions we also can't forget that his Lakers team had a dominant front court trio of Gasol, Odom and Bynum.

[ripthekik]

Referring to your skills as a poster?

Why should Kobe be listed above Oscar or Hakeem?
lmao, anyone needs explaining that Kobe is above Oscar is too dumb to comprehend the explanation anyways. Even Lebron fans wouldn't go this far :oldlol: Don't waste my time.

[MMM]

How the hell is Oscar ranked above Kobe?

Anyone who ranks Oscar above Kobe is showing their extreme hypocrisy and bias against Bryant.

Oscar Robertson has ONE ring, which he won playing with a prime Kareem (who was the finals MVP putting up ridiculous numbers). Yet Kobe gets penalized for winning 3 rings with Shaq, and even for winning 2 with Gasol.

:confusedshrug:

the argument for the big o over kobe has nothing to do with rings. in fact punishing the big o for the lack of rings in a era where practically nobody but the Celtics won rings is foolish. I doubt that Kobe would be able to win rings in the 60's in place of the big o going against those dynasty Celtics teams.

[OldSkoolball#52]

the argument for the big o over kobe has nothing to do with rings. in fact punishing the big o for the lack of rings in a era where practically nobody but the Celtics won rings is foolish. I doubt that Kobe would be able to win rings in the 60's in place of the big o going against those dynasty Celtics teams.


He could if he were allowed to bring Shaq and Pau back in time with him and take a bunch of credit for their dominance.

[OldSkoolball#52]

How the hell is Oscar ranked above Kobe?

Anyone who ranks Oscar above Kobe is showing their extreme hypocrisy and bias against Bryant.

Oscar Robertson has ONE ring, which he won playing with a prime Kareem (who was the finals MVP putting up ridiculous numbers). Yet Kobe gets penalized for winning 3 rings with Shaq, and even for winning 2 with Gasol.

:confusedshrug:


"Rings" is the lowest IQ fans argument.

Try comparing the two players based on their game.

[Electric Slide]

I don't have Kobe in my top 10 and I don't think he would have been in it even if he didn't tore his Achilles.

[DaSeba5]

I admit Kenny, you are a horrible poster, but you know how to get people talking. You should work for ESPN.

[Shepseskaf]

How the hell is Oscar ranked above Kobe?

Anyone who ranks Oscar above Kobe is showing their extreme hypocrisy and bias against Bryant.

Oscar Robertson has ONE ring, which he won playing with a prime Kareem (who was the finals MVP putting up ridiculous numbers). Yet Kobe gets penalized for winning 3 rings with Shaq, and even for winning 2 with Gasol.

:confusedshrug:
Its about more than just rings. Is anyone putting Horry in the top 10?

Oscar's prime years > Kobe's prime years. Oscar shot for a higher %, and was a better rebounder and distributor.

In short, Kobe has had a longer career, but Oscar was probably a better player. Both have 1 MVP, and the career average is about the same. I'll give the edge to the man who averaged a triple-double for a season.

[D-Wade316]

I have Kobe at #9.

1. Russell
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Erving(get mad f@gs)

[Mrofir]

I have Kobe at #9.

1. Russell
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Erving(get mad f@gs)

You forgot Larry Bird.

[chazzy]

I have Kobe at #9.

1. Russell
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. Shaq
5. Duncan
6. Wilt
7. Magic
8. Hakeem
9. Kobe
10. Erving(get mad f@gs)
http://thisaintevenfunny.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/larry-bird.jpg

[Shepseskaf]

lmao, anyone needs explaining that Kobe is above Oscar is too dumb to comprehend the explanation anyways. Even Lebron fans wouldn't go this far :oldlol: Don't waste my time.
Ironic that you should mention being dumb. Rather than posting garbage, why don't you explain why you think Kobe should be above Oscar? There are plenty of arguments against doing so.

[OldSkoolball#52]

You forgot Larry Bird.


And Lebron.

[ripthekik]

Ironic that you should mention being dumb. Rather than posting garbage, why don't you explain why you think Kobe should be above Oscar? There are plenty of arguments against doing so.
Even you know that there is plenty so why should I waste my time?

I'm fine with people saying Kobe is just top 10. Because after the top 6, when it's between Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, it's pretty much a matter of opinion. Your personal weight on rings, longevity, prime, competition, teammates, and so on. So I have no problem with someone putting Kobe behind those 3 because it's their opinion, their own criteria and list.

But Moses has no business being in the top 10. It's not even opinion anymore, it's fact. It's you being dumb, trying to stir a debate and wasting time.

[Mrofir]

And Lebron.



Look there is very little chance Lebron wouldn't make the top 10 even if he retired at end of last season, and he's clearly already one of the top 10 skilled players to ever play the game, but lets make him work a little more for it.

I call a 5 year freeze on including lebron in the top 10, for now he's pretty good.

[D-Wade316]

If Lebron wins another FMVP, maybe he'll jump to 7 or 8 depending on his playoff performance.

[Shepseskaf]

But Moses has no business being in the top 10. It's not even opinion anymore, it's fact. It's you being dumb, trying to stir a debate and wasting time.
:roll: Who was talking about Moses?

I'm the one wasting time, not you.

[General]

:oldlol:at anyone putting Duncan above Kobe in the top 10 list. Only on BBALL message boards. Anywhere else, the mainstream, Kobe is top 5 already.

[ripthekik]

:roll: Who was talking about Moses?

I'm the one wasting time, not you.
Yeap, I got the wrong name, because I didn't really pay attention with what you wrote. But replace it with anyone outside of the top 6, and Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and it's the same thing. Nobody else has a business in top 10 except them.

[Shepseskaf]

Yeap, I got the wrong name, because I didn't really pay attention with what you wrote. But replace it with anyone outside of the top 6, and Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and it's the same thing. Nobody else has a business in top 10 except them.
You're wrong, and you're dumb.

My fault for paying any attention to you at all.

[ripthekik]

You're wrong, and you're dumb.

My fault for paying attention to you at all.
99% of top 10 list from NBA fans will have those 10. You're the 1%, consisting of retards, middle school kids, and homeless men. Congrats.

[Mrofir]

:oldlol:at anyone putting Duncan above Kobe in the top 10 list. Only on BBALL message boards. Anywhere else, the mainstream, Kobe is top 5 already.


So you're saying "lol @ more informed fans, you idiots should be more like the casual fans who know so very little about basketball"... that they rank kobe above a guy like wilt, russell, magic, mj, kaj, or bird, cause you gotta do that to have kobe top 5